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Post by aeichener on Apr 26, 2006 17:30:41 GMT 3
The MPs have deliberated in first reading. Criticism has been voiced, some of it cheap and prejudiced, some substantiated. The tide might even turn... let's pray for that.
And what do we hear here? Deafening silence.
Especially from OO.
Alexander
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emmo
New Member
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Post by emmo on May 2, 2006 16:34:57 GMT 3
Alex, ich warte auf dich.
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Post by aeichener on May 2, 2006 21:24:06 GMT 3
What we should fear now is that some MPs might be halfway inclined to pass a watered-down version of the bill; which will conserve most of the vice and atrociousness of the original draft, and will throw out what little good was in it.
Alexander
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Post by aeichener on May 8, 2006 15:00:08 GMT 3
I wish my prediction had not been *so* spot-on... :-(
The Standard has reported about the suggested amendments. They would transform already very bad and evil bill into an even worse catastrophe for all Kenyan women and girls. But what would one expect from a criminal creep like Paul Muite?
One of the here-present discutants had expressed it very succinctly in the "Nation" forum:
"The truth though is that this Bill is HARMFUL to women and the vulnerable. It does not just fail to protect them, it actually endangers them. To patch it up so that Bonny Khalwale, Jimmy Angwenyi or Paddy Ahenda may return to their villages as heroes will not make it any less harmful to women.
The funny thing here is that the constituencies most at threat from this Bill, yes it is a weapon, are not represented in this argument. I am talking of course about women,teenagers and decent men. The best thing to do would be to burn the Bill, and for Njoki to spend an introspective weekend in Lamu contemplating her betrayal of feminism."
Alexander
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Post by aeichener on May 19, 2006 2:05:26 GMT 3
"First lady Lucy Kibaki is urging the youth to abstain from sex. Lucy says young people are not supposed to indulge in sex and they're should therefore stop deceiving themselves by use of condoms. She says any youth who's not married shouldn't have access to condoms." Source: Kiss FM
Ah - that's to Fanyamambo's liking. Her ilk at it again. Why not put the minimum 5 years sentence on *all* fornication?
Alexander
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Post by maina on May 19, 2006 3:04:04 GMT 3
"First lady Lucy Kibaki is urging the youth to abstain from sex. Lucy says young people are not supposed to indulge in sex and they're should therefore stop deceiving themselves by use of condoms. She says any youth who's not married shouldn't have access to condoms." Source: Kiss FM Ah - that's to Fanyamambo's liking. Her ilk at it again. Why not put the minimum 5 years sentence on *all* fornication? Alexander Alexander, The law and morality are two different things! They are not connate! Lucy kibaki is a Christian ( I can personally confirm that) and she is approaching this matter as a Christian. That is exclusivistic and you must appreciate that! Actually, that has nothing at all to do with the law! Besides, don't you thing that if juveniles abstained from sex it would solve loads of problems? Maina -unedited-
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Post by fanyamambo on May 22, 2006 13:03:01 GMT 3
Alexander, would you stop referring to me and just address the issue. Why do feel the need to attack me? You do not know me or what is to my liking, so stop speaking on my behalf. What does Lucy Kibaki's catholic view on sex and condoms have to do with me? You're really clutching at straws here. And stop e mailing me while you are at it.
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Post by aeichener on May 22, 2006 13:22:45 GMT 3
Fanyamambo: your private life is not the subject here. Neither are personal religious beliefs, as such, and as long they do not harm others.
What is "the issue" however, are your opinions and positions with regard to a proposed sexual offences legislation. They are with good right debated here, either in public (if it's a message of general interest) or via PM, where this is more appropriate.
It is people like you who are the real enemy of Kenyan women and Kenyan girls, indeed of all victims of sexual violence.
It is people like you who are betraying everything that Kenyan feminists have fought, argued and suffered for in the last 25 years.
It is people like you who gladly condone and accept marital rape (Njoki Ndung'u's draft did so even *before* the proposed committee amendments), as long as _consensual_ sex would be punished instead.
Alexander
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Post by fanyamambo on May 23, 2006 11:46:59 GMT 3
Alexander, once and for all let me tell you this. And you better listen good. You do not know what I do everyday for Kenyan women and girls. You do not know that I am one of those Kenyan feminists who contunue to fight and argue and suffer. Are you?
You do not know that I have experienced brutal sexual violence.
I told you right from the beginning that I was willing to discuss the bill. Without being called names and accused of all manner of things. Like condoning marital rape. I cannot begin to express how ridiculous, hurtful and obnoxious that is.
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Post by aeichener on May 23, 2006 11:58:53 GMT 3
Without being called names and accused of all manner of things. Like condoning marital rape. I cannot begin to express how ridiculous, hurtful and obnoxious that is. Right. It is ridiculous - but also hurtful and obnoxious for the tens if not hundreads of thousands of women who are suffering under it - that people like you and N.N. still condone marital rape, in defending this abominable draft bill. And that you attempt to criminalize consensual sex instead, with hardly imaginable brazenness. The initial provision in Millie Odhiambo's original (otherwise already very bad) draft which would have explicitly excluded marriage as a justification for rape, had been erased by the present draft drummers already *before* this mongrel bill has been introduced in parliament. We need a more modern sexual offences law. But this one is flawed from the outset, deeply and fundamentally; and in dozens of specific provisions, too. It will hurt not the perpetrators - who would even more frequently leave the courts triumphant, in Zuma style -, but the victims. Alexander
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emmo
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Post by emmo on May 23, 2006 12:34:39 GMT 3
FanyaMambo, Let's remove ourselves from the personal, no that will not do. This is a very very personal bill. One cannot help but be emotional about it.
Let's say a Kenyan man, had written this Bill. Would you be here cheering it on?
Does it not strike you that the first knowledge a child has of sexual abuse is that of his father on his mother, or his mother on his father? If there was only one single thing to keep in that Bill, not just useful for today but for all time, surely it would be the provisions against Spousal Rape.
That they were expunged at all is proof positive that it is not the security of Kenyan women this Bill is after, and neither is it the protection of Kenyan children. There would be many more intelligent ways of dealing with these issues. Rather what we have is a yearning for glory, the militancy of feminism gone wild.
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Post by aeichener on May 23, 2006 13:04:01 GMT 3
I agree with your assessment about the "yearning for glory". If one looks at the early stages of the project, it becomes very clear why and with which intentions Njoki Ndung'u hijacked it.
As to the militancy of feminism, I am quite confident that I understand you correctly. Of course feminism must on occasion be feisty and militant (e.g. in the abortion wars), but what is really offensive here is the "gone wild" part. The rabies of a bill that only strives to hurt and cripple, not to protect and heal. A bill that is injustice and brutality personified. And not even against men specifically, but also and even more against women and children.
Alexander
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Post by aeichener on Jun 1, 2006 1:26:22 GMT 3
Ah. As much as I infer from the Standard, you and your fellow ogres, Fanyamambo, have achieved what you wanted: www.eastandard.net/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143953332You have ultimately concocted a bill that sets the victims of sexual offences into a much worse situation than presently. You can be SOOOOOOOOOOO proud. What misogynes you are. The average estate rapist is a philanthropist in comparison to your breed. Alexander
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