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Post by ebarasi on Dec 8, 2010 20:36:21 GMT 3
So who has ancestral claim to the land in question? Simple! Whoever the British kicked off from the land! Doesn't look to melike it was Mbiyu Koinage owning this land at Mau Narok when the British arrived. Interestingly,even the colonialist understood the Maasai cultural tenure of land ownership - based on a communal or trust system. Maasai's never claimed individual ownership for along time - and the colonial government made a provision for that under laws, which have existed even post independence. When the first Brit (Cobb) took over the land, Maasais they were still squatting on the same land - until Kibaki (using the provincial administration) started evicting them in 2005. There is nothing like Mbiyu Koinange buying the land - he simply used his proximity to Jomo Kenyatta to dispossess another white man (German) called Class of the property, deported the latter (using his powers as Minister of State in the OP), and moved into the land. That's what is called land grabbing. Now,his kin would wish to kick out the Maasai squatters and settle in fake IDPs in exchange of more of our tapayer billions. That's now called corruption - on top of the earlier land grabbing. Totally unacceptable! Job, This issue of willing-buyer-willing seller brings me to ask this; Is it not a crime to deal and dabble in stolen property? Isn't this the the crime of Possession?
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Post by njamba on Dec 8, 2010 20:39:35 GMT 3
Yes Koinange bought stolen goods
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Post by kamalet on Dec 8, 2010 20:43:57 GMT 3
....so is Raila a thief for the land he owns at Molasses which was previously owned by the local community before it was taken over by govt? Is a thief for living in Karen on land previously owned by Maasai?
That is how silly this argument about ancestral land is!
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Post by ebarasi on Dec 8, 2010 20:56:49 GMT 3
....so is Raila a thief for the land he owns at Molasses which was previously owned by the local community before it was taken over by govt? Is a thief for living in Karen on land previously owned by Maasai? That is how silly this argument about ancestral land is! Kamale, It is not a silly argument. It is a point of reconciling ourselves to our past and charting out the way forward. But first, we have to call a spade a spade. If anyone is dealing in stolen property that is a crime. Period. If Raila is doing it, it remains a crime. If the Koinanges, Nyachaes, Kenyattas, Mois etc of this day and time are doing it, it still remains a crime. The genesis of some of the crises in terms of dispossession we face in Kenya today come from this crime of land theft. It is not going away. We either deal with it squarely or do the cowardly thing and pass the buck to our children and grandchildren.
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Post by job on Dec 8, 2010 21:32:50 GMT 3
.... so is Raila a thief for the land he owns at Molasses which was previously owned by the local community before it was taken over by govt? Is a thief for living in Karen on land previously owned by Maasai?
That is how silly this argument about ancestral land is! Nope!!!!! Your'e the one being silly for trying to compare apples and oranges. The land in question is a specific parcel, with distinct history of ownership, & whose dispute is currently in court, contested between 52 Maasai families against the Koinange family. We are not generalizing the entire Mau Narok. Even you Kamale are free to purchase land in Mau Narok, but I guess you will not want to go for a plot currently under court dispute. As for thieves, yes Koinange is a land thief...whether you want to introduce the moral equivalency crap about...oh...everybody else is a thief including Raila... feel free ...This thread was not only about Koinange family's thieving, but also possible role in cold-blooded murder. Stealing and murdering by the Koinange's is what this thread is about.
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Post by Fahari on Dec 8, 2010 21:58:27 GMT 3
So who has ancestral claim to the land in question? Simple! Whoever the British kicked off from the land! Doesn't look to melike it was Mbiyu Koinage owning this land at Mau Narok when the British arrived. Interestingly,even the colonialist understood the Maasai cultural tenure of land ownership - based on a communal or trust system. Maasai's never claimed individual ownership for along time - and the colonial government made a provision for that under laws, which have existed even post independence. When the first Brit (Cobb) took over the land, Maasais they were still squatting on the same land - until Kibaki (using the provincial administration) started evicting them in 2005. There is nothing like Mbiyu Koinange buying the land - he simply used his proximity to Jomo Kenyatta to dispossess another white man (German) called Class of the property, deported the latter (using his powers as Minister of State in the OP), and moved into the land. That's what is called land grabbing. Now,his kin would wish to kick out the Maasai squatters and settle in fake IDPs in exchange of more of our tapayer billions. That's now called corruption - on top of the earlier land grabbing. Totally unacceptable! "Brilliant" idea, could the government please hand over the dagoretti , muthangari areas to the waiyaki wa hinga clan, the Muthaiga, westlands and karen areas back to the Kikuyu who were kicked out, by the brits, and while we are at it ,we could also ensure that JKIA land is returned to the Masai or Kamba whoever can establish a legitimate claim, the Uasin Ngishu area back to its rightful owners, the Masai and the entire coastal ten mile strip back to the Omani Arabs who ruled the area. We really have a lot of historical injustices to correct....... PS while were having this debate I thought the new constitution that we all celebrated, guarantees every kenyan the right to settle anywhere regardless of ethnic origin
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Post by ebarasi on Dec 8, 2010 22:43:23 GMT 3
Simple! Whoever the British kicked off from the land! Doesn't look to melike it was Mbiyu Koinage owning this land at Mau Narok when the British arrived. Interestingly,even the colonialist understood the Maasai cultural tenure of land ownership - based on a communal or trust system. Maasai's never claimed individual ownership for along time - and the colonial government made a provision for that under laws, which have existed even post independence. When the first Brit (Cobb) took over the land, Maasais they were still squatting on the same land - until Kibaki (using the provincial administration) started evicting them in 2005. There is nothing like Mbiyu Koinange buying the land - he simply used his proximity to Jomo Kenyatta to dispossess another white man (German) called Class of the property, deported the latter (using his powers as Minister of State in the OP), and moved into the land. That's what is called land grabbing. Now,his kin would wish to kick out the Maasai squatters and settle in fake IDPs in exchange of more of our tapayer billions. That's now called corruption - on top of the earlier land grabbing. Totally unacceptable! "Brilliant" idea, could the government please hand over the dagoretti , muthangari areas to the waiyaki wa hinga clan, the Muthaiga, westlands and karen areas back to the Kikuyu who were kicked out, by the brits, and while we are at it ,we could also ensure that JKIA land is returned to the Masai or Kamba whoever can establish a legitimate claim, the Uasin Ngishu area back to its rightful owners, the Masai and the entire coastal ten mile strip back to the Omani Arabs who ruled the area. We really have a lot of historical injustices to correct....... PS while were having this debate I thought the new constitution that we all celebrated, guarantees every kenyan the right to settle anywhere regardless of ethnic origin Fahari, Land in dispute has to be dealt with openly and squarely. Historical injustices have to be addressed squarely. We don't want to be a nation that builds its greatness on the misfortune of some of its citizens. Kenyatta and company exacerbated and ignored those injustices to no avail. We still talk about this issue because it is something we can’t run away from. It can tear us apart or bring us together depending on how it is handled. Instead of ramming solutions and sacrifice down the throats of others why don’t we try honest discourse as a means to sort out the mess we find ourselves in. Some things can’t be undone but where something can be done, lets not falter. To put the burden of sacrifice only on those who suffer/suffered injustice is an act of such cowardly dimensions that only the morally bankrupt would consider that a solution. On the subject of where the IDPs should be settled why don't we start with land not in dispute rather than compounding the problem?
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Post by job on Dec 8, 2010 23:16:31 GMT 3
Simple! Whoever the British kicked off from the land! Doesn't look to melike it was Mbiyu Koinage owning this land at Mau Narok when the British arrived. Interestingly,even the colonialist understood the Maasai cultural tenure of land ownership - based on a communal or trust system. Maasai's never claimed individual ownership for along time - and the colonial government made a provision for that under laws, which have existed even post independence. When the first Brit (Cobb) took over the land, Maasais they were still squatting on the same land - until Kibaki (using the provincial administration) started evicting them in 2005. There is nothing like Mbiyu Koinange buying the land - he simply used his proximity to Jomo Kenyatta to dispossess another white man (German) called Class of the property, deported the latter (using his powers as Minister of State in the OP), and moved into the land. That's what is called land grabbing. Now,his kin would wish to kick out the Maasai squatters and settle in fake IDPs in exchange of more of our tapayer billions. That's now called corruption - on top of the earlier land grabbing. Totally unacceptable! "Brilliant" idea, could the government please hand over the dagoretti , muthangari areas to the waiyaki wa hinga clan, the Muthaiga, westlands and karen areas back to the Kikuyu who were kicked out, by the brits, and while we are at it ,we could also ensure that JKIA land is returned to the Masai or Kamba whoever can establish a legitimate claim, the Uasin Ngishu area back to its rightful owners, the Masai and the entire coastal ten mile strip back to the Omani Arabs who ruled the area. We really have a lot of historical injustices to correct....... PS while were having this debate I thought the new constitution that we all celebrated, guarantees every kenyan the right to settle anywhere regardless of ethnic origin Could you please climb down from your high horse and read the subject title of this thread for a moment! Do you think IDPs should be settled on stolen land that is under court dispute? I don't care whether you are another Koinange folk, but please, note that Ole Mpoe's death was not because he thinks Karen & the entire Nairobi belongs to the Maasai. He died for a particular parcel grabbed by Koinange - can't you get it!!!!! A parcel that is now being populated by what could very well be fake IDPs. Over to your brilliant, condenscending high palace. By the way Karibu BACK JUKWAA, you write familiar! If not - get to the topic.
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Post by Fahari on Dec 9, 2010 2:02:51 GMT 3
Fahari, Land in dispute has to be dealt with openly and squarely. Historical injustices have to be addressed squarely. We don't want to be a nation that builds its greatness on the misfortune of some of its citizens. Kenyatta and company exacerbated and ignored those injustices to no avail. We still talk about this issue because it is something we can’t run away from. It can tear us apart or bring us together depending on how it is handled. Instead of ramming solutions and sacrifice down the throats of others why don’t we try honest discourse as a means to sort out the mess we find ourselves in. Some things can’t be undone but where something can be done, lets not falter. To put the burden of sacrifice only on those who suffer/suffered injustice is an act of such cowardly dimensions that only the morally bankrupt would consider that a solution. My point is, as a nation, how do we begin to determine what can be "undone and what cannot be undone”? If we determine that, how do we compensate those who lost "what cannot be undone"? At what point do we draw the line and will this satisfy every body? How do we determine who suffered most harm? Are you suggesting that those who lost land around Nairobi and its environs suffered less or do not deserve justice or that their sacrifice is somehow diminished because their kin do not agitate for compensation? Historically speaking the trans nzoia and uasin ngishu plateaus belonged to the masai not the kalenjin they were displaced by internecine wars and disease both human and livestock.. The question here is, do we then displace the current residents to correct historical injustices? I will grant you that point but when one considers the sentiments of ntimama you are in the minority
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Post by Fahari on Dec 9, 2010 2:35:58 GMT 3
"Brilliant" idea, could the government please hand over the dagoretti , muthangari areas to the waiyaki wa hinga clan, the Muthaiga, westlands and karen areas back to the Kikuyu who were kicked out, by the brits, and while we are at it ,we could also ensure that JKIA land is returned to the Masai or Kamba whoever can establish a legitimate claim, the Uasin Ngishu area back to its rightful owners, the Masai and the entire coastal ten mile strip back to the Omani Arabs who ruled the area. We really have a lot of historical injustices to correct....... PS while were having this debate I thought the new constitution that we all celebrated, guarantees every kenyan the right to settle anywhere regardless of ethnic origin Could you please climb down from your high horse and read the subject title of this thread for a moment! Do you think IDPs should be settled on stolen land that is under court dispute? I don't care whether you are another Koinange folk, but please, note that Ole Mpoe's death was not because he thinks Karen & the entire Nairobi belongs to the Maasai. He died for a particular parcel grabbed by Koinange - can't you get it!!!!! A parcel that is now being populated by what could very well be fake IDPs. Over to your brilliant, condenscending high palace. By the way Karibu BACK JUKWAA, you write familiar! If not - get to the topic. Mr Job, Any debate has a logical sequence and if you followed the contributions you will note that I was responding to a particular question and and a particular answer Question So who has ancestral claim to the land in question? Answer Simple! Whoever the British kicked off from the land! Now, if we are to follow this simple assertion to its logical conclusion then there is a lot of displacement to go round. and I took the opportunity to point out interesting areas of "historical injustice" to consider. PS I don't understand how my possible kinship to the persons in question or even your sentiments regarding that possibility come into play or develops this discussion, I think it would be more helpful to keep personalities and emotions out of the debate but I guess one has to fill up space the best they know how. Thanks for the karibu but I haven't been away, I dont log in I scan the board regularly just too busy to contribute.
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Post by kaitlin on Dec 9, 2010 20:30:57 GMT 3
Hi there, this is Kaitlin Noss and Mary Poole, two of the authors of the Historical Injustice at Mau Naok report. We are so glad to see that you have access to it and are reposting it on the web. Would you be able to share the wikileaks report that invovles the Koinange family? That was the most difficult part of our research as he seems to be an untouchabe figure. The link you posted is not working, probably because of wikileaks recent scandals--do you have a copy downloaded? We think it could be used in this court case. Also, we are currently working around the clock to get international media coverage on Mpoe's assassination. He was a good friend and colleague and we are concerned because other activists on the ground at Mau are getting similar death threats. Does anyone here have contact with reporters? Any other online news forums or blogs where we could send our press release information? Thank you again for this forum--it was a light in the dark when we felt the issue was getting buried by most press accounts.
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Post by gachquota on Dec 9, 2010 20:56:40 GMT 3
R.I.P Moses Ole Mpoe u fought the good fight ma brother.
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Post by job on Dec 10, 2010 0:55:24 GMT 3
Hi there, this is Kaitlin Noss and Mary Poole, two of the authors of the Historical Injustice at Mau Naok report. We are so glad to see that you have access to it and are reposting it on the web. Would you be able to share the wikileaks report that invovles the Koinange family? That was the most difficult part of our research as he seems to be an untouchabe figure. The link you posted is not working, probably because of wikileaks recent scandals--do you have a copy downloaded? We think it could be used in this court case. Also, we are currently working around the clock to get international media coverage on Mpoe's assassination. He was a good friend and colleague and we are concerned because other activists on the ground at Mau are getting similar death threats. Does anyone here have contact with reporters? Any other online news forums or blogs where we could send our press release information? Thank you again for this forum--it was a light in the dark when we felt the issue was getting buried by most press accounts. Kaitlin & Mary,Welcome to JUKWAA. This thread is a tribute to the late Moses Ole Mpoe. I'm glad to learn he was a good friend & colleague of yours. Kudos for your resourceful study on historical injustices at Mau Narok. I felt compelled to repost it here for it's relevance and detailed orientation. Now, I myself can't now access the wikileak link (above) on Koinange's land holdings - probably due to the current sabotage on the site. Unfortunately, I didn't have it downloaded. Hope the site comes up soon. I'm so glad you're working on getting international coverage on this matter. Please keep up the good fight - we need to illuminate this atrocity & probably deter the numerous death threats on remaining activists. I'm also involved in similarly related activities. I will ask a friend to contact you - via your JUKWAA account in-box (in this blog) regarding contacts with reporters & info on press releases. Thanks again and Karibu!
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Post by job on Dec 10, 2010 3:07:00 GMT 3
Mpoe Burial
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Post by gachquota on Dec 10, 2010 4:32:45 GMT 3
Job I got one word 4 u ......brilliant.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Dec 10, 2010 8:27:11 GMT 3
Wow What an atrocity, assassinations are meant to discourage change. They rarely do and if anything, they act as a catalytic spark for change. Thanks for the video I dont see how IDPs will sleep tight at night given the opposition to their settling there by locals who want the ownership of the land in question sorted out first.
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Post by gachquota on Dec 10, 2010 15:43:03 GMT 3
Wow What an atrocity, assassinations are meant to discourage change. They rarely do and if anything, they act as a catalytic spark for change. Thanks for the video I dont see how IDPs will sleep tight at night given the opposition to their settling there by locals who want the ownership of the land in question sorted out first. PM .......Very true sort da maa community first then resettle da fake IDPS.
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Post by job on Dec 10, 2010 17:47:42 GMT 3
GachquotaI appreciate your sentiments. Thanks. Below is a statement from the Minister for National Heritage, William Ole Ntimama @ the Daily NationHeritage Minister William ole Ntimama has threatened to quit his cabinet position over what he termed as intimidation of members of the Maasai community.
He told a burial ceremony of a Maasai land rights activist Moses ole Mpoe that he could no longer serve a government that failed to adequately protect its own people.
“I am ready to lose my job as a minister if the government that I serve continues to intimidate its own people and we shall not relent our effort in pursuing justice,” said Mr Ntimama, adding that the provincial administration was intimidating vocal people championing land rights.
read more
www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1069844/-/793o4q/-/index.html
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Post by gachquota on Dec 10, 2010 18:20:43 GMT 3
GachquotaI appreciate your sentiments. Thanks. Below is a statement from the Minister for National Heritage, William Ole Ntimama @ the Daily NationHeritage Minister William ole Ntimama has threatened to quit his cabinet position over what he termed as intimidation of members of the Maasai community.
He told a burial ceremony of a Maasai land rights activist Moses ole Mpoe that he could no longer serve a government that failed to adequately protect its own people.
“I am ready to lose my job as a minister if the government that I serve continues to intimidate its own people and we shall not relent our effort in pursuing justice,” said Mr Ntimama, adding that the provincial administration was intimidating vocal people championing land rights.
read more
www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1069844/-/793o4q/-/index.html Job U welkam ma brother ur article opened ma eyes .To be honest went to bed last nite couldnt sleep properly .In Kenya we take things for granted but we kan not afford to give up aluta continua.
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Post by kamalet on Dec 10, 2010 18:22:21 GMT 3
GachquotaI appreciate your sentiments. Thanks. Below is a statement from the Minister for National Heritage, William Ole Ntimama @ the Daily NationHeritage Minister William ole Ntimama has threatened to quit his cabinet position over what he termed as intimidation of members of the Maasai community.
He told a burial ceremony of a Maasai land rights activist Moses ole Mpoe that he could no longer serve a government that failed to adequately protect its own people.
“I am ready to lose my job as a minister if the government that I serve continues to intimidate its own people and we shall not relent our effort in pursuing justice,” said Mr Ntimama, adding that the provincial administration was intimidating vocal people championing land rights.
read more
www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1069844/-/793o4q/-/index.html Unfortunately, this is typical Ntimama playing to the gallery! Ati he willing to lose his job (or did he mean give up his job) if the resettlement of IDP takes place in the land he disputes? First and foremost, it is not maasai's being evicted from land they own. Already there is someone claiming rights to the farm and who is supposedly selling the land to the govt for resettlement. So if Ntimama so strongly feels about the plight of the Maasai, why not organise for the locals to take over the stolen land and they can sell the land if they so wish (as "genuine" land owners)? Why wont Ntimama lose his job today if he is not play acting?
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Post by adongo23456 on Dec 10, 2010 19:31:42 GMT 3
GachquotaI appreciate your sentiments. Thanks. Below is a statement from the Minister for National Heritage, William Ole Ntimama @ the Daily NationHeritage Minister William ole Ntimama has threatened to quit his cabinet position over what he termed as intimidation of members of the Maasai community.
He told a burial ceremony of a Maasai land rights activist Moses ole Mpoe that he could no longer serve a government that failed to adequately protect its own people.
“I am ready to lose my job as a minister if the government that I serve continues to intimidate its own people and we shall not relent our effort in pursuing justice,” said Mr Ntimama, adding that the provincial administration was intimidating vocal people championing land rights.
read more
www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/-/1064/1069844/-/793o4q/-/index.html Unfortunately, this is typical Ntimama playing to the gallery! Ati he willing to lose his job (or did he mean give up his job) if the resettlement of IDP takes place in the land he disputes? First and foremost, it is not maasai's being evicted from land they own. Already there is someone claiming rights to the farm and who is supposedly selling the land to the govt for resettlement. So if Ntimama so strongly feels about the plight of the Maasai, why not organise for the locals to take over the stolen land and they can sell the land if they so wish (as "genuine" land owners)? Why wont Ntimama lose his job today if he is not play acting? Kamale,Why are you ignoring the elephant in the tent. That is a dangerous thing to do. Ntimama was speaking at the funeral of a Maasai land rights activist Mr. Mpoe who was assassinated in broad daylight. The assassins cornered him in a red light stop, jumped out of their motorbikes and ruthlessly sprayed his car with bullets. His brother who was in the car with him is still in hospital suffering from bullet wounds. What is rather obvious is that the Maasai community in the area are organized and want their land. They have filed cases dating back to 1964. They have filed new cases and right now the land being sold by the Koinanges to the government to settle IDPs is land whose ownership is in dispute. What lunatic government buys that kind of land to settle IDPs? How about if you pay money to the Koinanges and the courts rule against them? Will they refund the money? Will the IDPs be uprooted again? Those are the real issues not Ntimama. What we can see is that some land grabbers want to use the IDP plight to offload stolen land to the government so that they take the money and let somebody else deal with the stolen land. And we have a government in the hands of the same land grabbers working with land thieves to keep ripping off the public and generating land wars that could be very dangerous. Listen, we can scare people with the Ocampos, the Provincial Police etc and tell them if you bring violence you will be in trouble, usually they will listen, but when assassins just cut down their leaders, the local people will be willing to lay down their lives too. That is when you can't control them. Whether the Koinanges like it or not, their hold on the land in Narok is more shaky than my late great grandmother's walking stick. The genie is out of the box. Ain't going back. Nope. adongo I'll come back to this later. Now I have to take off. The board is too busy today.
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Post by kamalet on Dec 10, 2010 19:53:03 GMT 3
Unfortunately, this is typical Ntimama playing to the gallery! Ati he willing to lose his job (or did he mean give up his job) if the resettlement of IDP takes place in the land he disputes? First and foremost, it is not maasai's being evicted from land they own. Already there is someone claiming rights to the farm and who is supposedly selling the land to the govt for resettlement. So if Ntimama so strongly feels about the plight of the Maasai, why not organise for the locals to take over the stolen land and they can sell the land if they so wish (as "genuine" land owners)? Why wont Ntimama lose his job today if he is not play acting? Kamale,Why are you ignoring the elephant in the tent. That is a dangerous thing to do. Ntimama was speaking at the funeral of a Maasai land rights activist Mr. Mpoe who was assassinated in broad daylight. The assassins cornered him in a red light stop, jumped out of their motorbikes and ruthlessly sprayed his car with bullets. His brother who was in the car with him is still in hospital suffering from bullet wounds. What is rather obvious is that the Maasai community in the area are organized and want their land. They have filed cases dating back to 1964. They have filed new cases and right now the land being sold by the Koinanges to the government to settle IDPs is land whose ownership is in dispute. What lunatic government buys that kind of land to settle IDPs? How about if you pay money to the Koinanges and the courts rule against them? Will they refund the money? Will the IDPs be uprooted again? Those are the real issues not Ntimama. What we can see is that some land grabbers want to use the IDP plight to offload stolen land to the government so that they take the money and let somebody else deal with the stolen land. And we have a government in the hands of the same land grabbers working with land thieves to keep ripping off the public and generating land wars that could be very dangerous. Listen, we can scare people with the Ocampos, the Provincial Police etc and tell them if you bring violence you will be in trouble but when assassins just cut down their leaders, the local people will be willing to lay down their lives too. That is when you can't control them. Whether the Koinanges like it or not, their hold on the land in Narok is more shaky than my late great grandmother's walking stick. The genie is out of the box. Ain't going back. Nope. adongo I'll come back to this later. Now I have to take off. The board is too busy today. Adongo If indeed the government is going to buy stolen land, I anticipate that there will be title deeds to be issued to the government on transfer of the land. Now if as you say there are court cases on the same land, I would expect that there will be caveats on the sale of such land. This is a rather large piece of land and I would expect that our indefatigable Lands minister would not allow such a transfer to take place if indeed the land is stolen or disputed. As we have not heard from Jim Orengo on this saga, then I will take some of the activism with a pinch of salt.
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Post by ebarasi on Dec 10, 2010 23:48:34 GMT 3
My point is, as a nation, how do we begin to determine what can be "undone and what cannot be undone”? We begin by identifying and looking at disputed land. We begin by examining the records to establish which land was legally and transparently acquired by the government(s) or private individual(s) of the day and separating that from disputed land. If the Laibons, as Kimunya once said, donated land then; What did they receive in return? why was this land sold in the subsequent transfers without consulting the donor communities? Did any of the proceeds benefit the Maa? The issue of compensation should be handled in such a way that those who committed the crime will also bear the primary responsibility of paying compensation. Where as a whole nation we benefited from this misfortune, then we owe it to the aggrieved and must collectively share responsibility by paying into a trust run by and in the interest of the afflicted communities. The line is drawn at fraudulent claims or claims that seek to destroy the nation. People who suffered the most are those who have never become real or strong players in the subsequent economy. The squatters. This will not satisfy everybody and the compensation may not really be commensurate to what was lost but once and for all we have to put this thing behind us. Sacrifices will have to be made by all and not only by those who have suffered the most. The internecine wars you mention never established permanent land ownership. They only established an equilibrium that lasted for as long as the land could be defended, alliances entered, or peace agreements established with mutual benefit and assurance. The displacement of the colonial period and the post-independent era were done with a desire for permanence. The land conflict we see now is a consequence of the hopelessness and powerlessness that this displacement has left in its wake. The resolution of this conflict will have to be part of a larger scheme of resolving the effects of impoverishment and powerlessness on the possibility of Kenyans to pursue their potential and dreams. Yes we have a new constitution that allows people to live and settle anywhere but that does not preclude the pursuit of justice over past injustices. The use and acquisition of land is supposed to be laid out in a land policy that while staking out the future also addresses past injustice. We cannot ignore the effects of losing ones livelihood and economic lifeline. How do you: i) pay for the education of your children? ii) acquire a loan to enhance your enterprise? iii) pay for health care so as to remain productive? iv) secure food for the family? In other words the odds are against the displaced and landless. As Bantu Steven Biko would say: "They are born into poverty, live in poverty, and die in poverty"Ntimama's sentiments just express the frustration and anger that wronged people feel as there is no leadership on this issue and it is even not on the national agenda. People are either skirting it or digging their heads in the sand.
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Post by job on Dec 11, 2010 1:55:38 GMT 3
Kamale points out a key issue - the role of the Lands Minister, James Orengo in this matter. I'll come to that shortly. But Prof.Dapash raises an even bigger point about the role of the Attorney General. www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000024439&cid=4&ttl=Colonial land treaty at the heart of Maasai land trouble On the contentious 2, 240 acres of land the Government has bought for resettlement of the IDP, Dapash, faults the Attorney General’s office for not properly advising the Government.
"Wako failed as the Government chief legal advisor. He knew there was a legal issue surrounding the ownership of parcels of land in Mau Narok, but he did not advise against buying it," he adds.
He argues all the parcels of lands were on lease and the Government must have overlooked certain aspects before buying. I have to agree with Dapash. Besides the archaic laws carried over from the old constitution – which used to protect land grabbers from compulsory acquisition, the Attorney General’s inept and questionable role in this conundrum cannot be understated. It is the responsibility of government that when resettling IDPs, it must first ensure the identified land is free from any disputes and corruption. The registration and title deeds must be clean and free from any legal challenge. It is the duty of the Attorney General (AG) to do due diligence and investigations on such land brought forth for IDP resettlement. On top of that, the AG must also consent to everything in the proposed transaction, including whether the price is fair or not, before drafting and signing the sales agreement.I know there’s the temptation from AG Amos Wako not-to-mess-with a land transaction where aristocrat Uhuru Kenyatta (Finance Minister) allocates public money to purchase land whose ownership is claimed by aristocrat Mbiyu Koinange in Mau Narok. Since plans to resettle IDPs look on course, AG Wako must come clean and declare whether he sanctioned procurement of this disputed land. On top of that, was the price offered reasonable? I will also not exonerate the Lands Minister James Orengo.Did Orengo vet this piece of land? Did he investigate its title deed? Did he check its property profile? Did he send a team to the site, to physically inspect the property and do a valuation? While there, did they find complaints from locals? Was this land adjudicated and approved by the Ministerial Tender Committee for direct procurement? Who wrote a letter of offer to the concerned bidder (the Koinanges)? All these questions must be answered by the Lands Ministry. Prof. Dapash should also remember to write to the Kenya Anti Corruption Commission (KACC). PLO Lumumba, KACC’s Director-General should also investigate all aspects of this land procurement.
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Post by mossad on Dec 11, 2010 3:53:06 GMT 3
This issue is quite emotional after the murder of ole Mpoe.....As someone who's from this part of the country iam left wondering then what should happen to the IDPs who needs resettlement at least somewhere. By talking to falks back home, many have said that the IDPs will never be accepted as the rightful owners of that land in dispute and the fighting will continue until the govt gets it...As one from lower part of mau, then i think i might have a problem with the maasai who are now demanding more land despite the fact that they own large chunk of land that they are not using for anyhting constructive and the best they can do is sell their land, drink till they drop and claim that the pple who live there kind of swindled them and thats why they are landless.....this is rather a vague argument considering even if the govt were to return the land to these maasais' then, how will the community devide this land and who will be it's rightful owner considering the clans that might claim they were short changed or favouratism which will surely arise consdiering that some of the chronies of these maasai leaders are the one who will be given the largest chunk.....On this point, there was a piece of land in a place called Orekule where the community land was divided among the ildamat maasai where law suite were filed due to irregularities on how the land was deivided.....u see the problem is when it comes to land in Narok and the maasai ownership, most of them have large parcels of land. I think and believe that the killing of Ole Mpoe is wrong, but the resttlement of those genuine IDPs should go on even in that land in dispute today.........Ole Mpoe, Ntimama, and most of the pple concerned about this land have enough land they cant even figure out what to do with it....so what will they do with this Tipis land if they were awarded.....let the poor IDPs have a home in Narok county, the only thing is, i cant assure them any security....
Mossad.
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