ODM is nothing but a MIRAGE!

[abdulmote]

Need I say more? I hereby state and declare, sincerely and in my honest opinion, that the movement known as ODM is representative of nothing but hot air, unlike what many would prefer to imagine. ODM is just another vehicle which falsely creates so much hope in many, that it feels like relying on a mirage to quench one's thirst!

Here are some of my reasons; ODM was originally made of LDP and KANU, a percieved unity of purpose just before the Referendum in Novemebr 05 and meant to counter the Bananiacs (miguna's favorite term then) against their YES vote. Two things to note: firstly, LDP had an axe to grind against the Bananiacs for obvious reasons; the MoU betrayal etc., and so it had to naturally oppose them, that is certainly one of their motivating factors. Secondly, KANU is meant to be the main opposition party in Parliament. Its role would be meaningless were it to join MKMs in supporting the Yes vote and therefore it had to oppose it as its naturally expected primary role. Of course this is not to say those were the only reasons for going against the Yes vote, but many other reasons nevertheless only played a secondary role.

Why do I say ODM is a mirage?

The composition of ODM is certainly made up of people who do not have a good track record in their personal integrity as we know of. Many have been KANU 'sharks' before and the people fought so hard to remove them from power for obvious reasons, when Moi was its chairman and just before he was kicked out with his 'Project Uhuru'. I need not dwell on this for now. Next check where LDP is coming from; it was only a last minute pull-out outfit once its membership realised Moi had betrayed the lot. In other words, it was formulated out of a desperate situation; nothing genuine or original of intent.

Next, the ODM got catapulted into fame and 'honor' despite its composition, simply because it 'incidentally' found itself with an opportunity to side with the public at that particular point, period! I say it was just an opportunity for ODM, simply because the history of its membership personalities comprises of people whom we clearly know what their natural instincts would be, when it comes to deciding upon matters of public's concern; these were Moi's KANU men lets not forget that! Anyone remembers Kamotho's role? Ntimama's, Kalonzo's, Uhuru's, Raila's, Saitoti's? Anyone? I know some might even be offended with the inlcusion of Raila in the list here in that he had always appeared to side with the people. But I would like to argue that there is a very clear explantion for Raila's observed and 'consistent' behaviour, which certainly demonstrates that he is a fake Robin Hood, unlike what many would prefer to believe! Lakini poa for now, discussing people is not one my favorite menu.

And then came the Referendum; the NO vote was certainly the more sensible choice given the scenario and it won. I am one of those who to a good degree argued in support of the same during the campaigns but did not have the ODM in mind when doing so. And of course we must recognise the ODM's effort and achievements towards that success. ODM's help in amalgamating the NO vote was indeed crucial that a win may be realised. But again to me its aim was primarily one of 'their own' and had nothing to do with the people as a priority! Pure chance with unintended consequencies if you like. Try that, it happens all the time.

Then came the win and ODM had thought it has realsied its 'acquired' opportunity of knocking off Kibakis' gov. They were wrong and this is where they became exposed for all to see, but parhaps many have chosen not to!

Well, I choose to pause here for now. There is a lot to offer in explanation of the above observations but will do more later. In the mean time think; ODM's membership is certainly not guided by any criteria or popular and unique policy. Anyone can join at a choice, whether a thief, a crook, a murderer or a robber! All are welcome as long as one has the potential to bring a 'flok' of naive wananchi along with them, the rest do not matter. Another point to ponder is that ODM lacks any clear policy guidelines of its affairs and popular projections, it does not have any known and or declared Manifesto which outlines its endeavours, and so it is representative of nothing but hot air! And that is despite the recent conducted 'grass roots' elections by LDP. I wonder what the voting members were 'voting for'. What do you expect?

Thirdly; ODM's failure of utilising efficiently the Referendum for the Constitutional change considering the results, was in my opinon, a clear manifestation of its membership's fixation with using the same solely for their own personal power gains, which inevitably slipped through their fingers! Hypocricy is the word and a recipe for self destruction. In the meantime, the public is no better than it was before the Ref, and is still waiting in suspence.

Tell me what you think, and more later.

[aeichener]

Well, yes.
As I wrote before: ODM was a temporary unit of purpose for one specific goal, comprised of widely disparate elements. The hope to fuse a new coalition out of it, seems to be vain.

Alexander

[maina]

Abdulmote,

Thanks for beginning a new thread on this matter as per my request earlier. Now we can deal with two threads without having to commingle ODM and KANU matters.

Anyhow, a while back, I was arguing politics from your same objectivity. If you can remember, I never boosted any one of the presidential dreamers until Uhuru Kenyatta kissed the ODM goodbye. You see I began to literally perceive (just like you are) that there is something ingenerate and licentious with Kenyans. It affects us in such a clossal manner that we know it and can identify it, but when contentions like power, money, education, et cetera spring up, it manifests itself overtly and without shame! I am talking about tribalism!

I am thoroughly convinced that the reason Kenyans do not want to discuss the issues you have wonderfully raised (actually, you referred to it as hypocrisy) is because of tribalism. That those issues are not important saa hii but will be plunged into once Messers Raila Odinga is President (for the Luos that is), Ruto is President (as per the electioneerings of the Kalenjins), and so forth! It is an awfully tricky issue and it is my opinion that it needs to be dealt with first and foremost, even before we begin to deal with these other matters you have raised. Otherwise every Kenyan will want their overlord to ascend to power so that they can govern as they dissipate the country's resources!

However, I agree with your analysis completely. These issues you have raise need to be dealt with urgently and before the next general elections. But since the elections will and must be held next year, we also need to discuss personalities. That is necessary. Like I said before, the only way to effect change in Kenya today, is by voting in next year's election. Also, any attempt(s) that may result in giving Kibaki more time in office (such as abnegating or failing to vote) will surely cost us.

Quite frankly Abdulmote, there is absolutely nothing we (the mwananchi) can do or even say here because of the impertinent matter of the tribe and its eventualities with respect to election politics and governance in Kenya. Everybody thinks and believes they are right on the mere fact of being Kenyan citizens and are categorically therefore entitled to be governed by their own tribal president! That is also why I have been telling the Raila Odinga wooers that they will be beautifully appalled if they envision their grandstander and his ODM/LDP being elected as per the predilection of the referendum outcome, once the election results are announced next year.

And speaking of Raila Odinga, I actually give Biwott (read the Total Man) so much more respect than him. As his mesmerized wooers menacingly avow that "he is a different man", I believe Raila Odinga is worse than Biwott in his virility. The man, just like any other politican should not be entrusted to run anything that is of Kenyan fellowship! Raila is not straight! He gathers his domination singularly from Luo Nyanza, and he does that in the meanest of ways! Over the years (besides riding on his father's distinction) he has assaulted their intellect, volition and imagination geniuses such that they blindly envision and believe in no other leader but Raila. That is dangerous! Besides, have you ever seen any one of his worshippers, either right here in this Jukwaa blog or even in the Kenyan papers ever discussing his grievious corruption and bribery claims, and perhaps even questioning his credibilty? Didn't he commit those crimes in his Luo Nyanza?

But how do you begin to solve such a problem? Isn't it tribalism in its essentiality that we are dealing with here? And anyway, how do you make sure a character like Raila will deliver on his promises (which I do not know by the way), considering the fact that he, his father and Moi were once cronies? What is the point of reference for evaluating truth here? You see truth can never be relative as social democrats fantasize. Truth has absolutes because it is exclusive. I do not think we can tackle this matter until we as Kenyans thoroughly address tribalism, period!

Maina

-unedited-

[roughrider]

Abdulmote

I appreciate your comments which come in the wake of two or three other indignant interventions. We gathered you were miffed about the direction of discussions here and how we kept focusing on personality – and so we challenged you to start a thread and you’ve kindly obliged us. We have no choice but to make comments on the same:

On leadership, discussions and flip-flopping

You can judge for yourself now if you did not drag politicians’ names into your writing much the same way you accused us of doing. Couldn’t you at least keep politicians names off your post? This is not your favorite item on the menu, but you still pick it time and again? It seems we must welcome you to the world of weaknesses, subjectivities and preferences. At least now we know what you think of some politicians… and perhaps what you don’t think of others.

It is important to discuss leaders because leadership is an important ingredient in sociopolitical development. I am yet to find a country that progressed without the right leadership, and I think there is none that exists that does not discuss politicians and leaders in general, by name and character.

ODM and the continuing struggle for a new constitution

“ODM is hot air”; “ODM is a mirage” – these are your words and perhaps we should consider that you are probably right. If you are right Adulmote, then why are we so flustered and fussy about a ‘mirage’ which is merely ‘hot air’?

I am amazed at how short memory can be.

I think we should be sober and dispassionate Abdulmote. Jumping to conclusions is a very dangerous thing. ODM is merely a name. It is not a coalition. It is not KANU and/or LDP and I am amazed that you, of all the people can see it that way or fall for that cheap press-driven deception.

ODM, in reality stands for the movement that came together to oppose the Wako draft. It is the bi-partisan, countrywide, non –tribal mwanachi-driven movement that voted no to what had been labeled a government project. They won. They won not merely the argument but the moral and democratic right to set the agenda with regard to the new constitution. In other words there is unfinished business for the ODM. This agenda remains at the top of our country’s to-do list and it is shameful that anyone would belittle that.

To move out of the ODM, or to dismiss this agenda as hot-air is to say that you now believe in the Wako draft and no longer take the Bomas draft as the bona fide reflection of the peoples initial position.

Lastly, a note to Maina on Raila.

You have made your point Sir. In brief you have educated us that ‘Raila is a bad man who is of no consequence outside of Luo Nyanza, in fact he is a trillion times far worse than Biwott’ – I am sure you earnestly believe this and we have no reason to believe that you are not infallible. Now, we do not want your veins to burst as you strenuously repeat such an obvious point, do we?

We therefore wholeheartedly and unreservedly accept it as the gospel truth and urge all other members of this forum to henceforth ignore Raila Odinga. Any other approach will be misguided folly, and may imperil the physical and mental health of our very Maina Gichohi whose delightful contributions have kept us enthralled.

[politicalmaniac]

Wow

Let ODM be hot air then

If that thought comforts you, sleep well.

The Kenyan Nation marches on. For starters, Just get news of the Ruto coronation. This will confirm your thesis that ODM is hot air indeed.

[abdulmote]

"They won. They won not merely the argument but the moral and democratic right to set the agenda with regard to the new constitution. In other words there is unfinished business for the ODM. This agenda remains at the top of our country’s to-do list..." --RR.

RR, I wonder how you must have been feeling when speaking your mind like that above. You know, 'winning' "the moral and democratic right to set the agenda with regard to the new constistution." I wonder what has been happening since then? Six and a half months later and counting, what relevant "agenda" have they set by now? Tell me, do you have any genuine feeling that ODM will indeed set us "the agenda" in the near future or before the elections for that matter?

And this is precisely my point. When I suggested that ODM is but a mirage, all I was trying to say is that ODM is nothing but a false hope! It is indeed creating and offering false promises and expectations to the public, and just as the deceitful "mirage" ODM wil certainly not quench the people's thirst as they are led to believe! There will be nothing but "hot air" where people will be expecting water to drink just when they are dying of thirst!

Yes, the people overwhelmingly rejected the Wakos' or is it Kibaki's bill, but in doing that, would you say the public was only expressing its love and support for the ODM flag bearers as its primary desire? Similarly, I submit that ODM's primary desire was not simply to fight for what is right for the public, but rather 'their' primary intention was to use the potential win then, as the platform in pursuit of their presidential ambitions as clearly proven in time! There is an obvious element of self-interest first as can be seen here, and all the rest are but secondary factors which the ODMs are exploiting and manipulating for their own hidden agendas.

RR, what have those guys been doing since the Referendum win? Were they so busy plotting how to get the Constitution thing through, as well as fight the corrupt government side, or will I be wrong in observing that they have been too busy in developing their own presidential bids and have done almost nothing about the desired constitution yet, today included! Oh, that reminds me, Ruto was busy being 'crowned' the presidential candidate for the Kaleis! That is your ODM in action!

Whilst I pause here for now, let me clarify some issues which RR has in some ways insinuated and distorted the context of my earlier assertions; First of all, I did not at any time suggest that anyone should not be discussing in here about any of our politicians and even campaign for them if they like! My posters are still there for anyone's reference, and please do feel free to quote me in support of your allegations if you can. But in stead, what I did 'complain' about, was the 'neverending' discussions that appear to have taken root solely offering various "political punditry" by almost everyone, which seems not to be taking us anywhere and will never do in the lifetime of its process!

At no point did I suggest that anyone should not be talking about akina raila or anyone else. Personally, doing that is certainly not my cup of tea and I hardly indulge myself in such discos at all! The thing is, many tend to loose focus of which direction the public is taking, thereby loosing themselves in the process just as well, by persistently worrying about individual and 'unproductive' leadership acts, at the expense of being aware and concerned of the bigger picture taking shape.

But mine is a wake-up call. I certainly have no powers to stop the political landscape taking form in Kenya right now, but I shall try hard to play my meagre role to highlight what I percieve to be an honest and impartial truth, and so urge everyone to remain vigilant whenever possible and appropriate for mother Kenya's wellbeing.

[pkibathi]

In my opinion, whether ODM is a mirage or and it is not , Why,

a) to its leaders, it is a potent political vehicle which if used properly can land some one in the pinnacle of power ie Absolute Presidency under the current constitution. Despite the fact that Uhuru and a few others have quit, the critical mass of ODM is still there as Uhuru surely had no weight given that Central Kenya is still very much in Kibaki's hold.

b) To Kenyans, especially those who voted no because they had issues with the current consitution, ODM is a mirage. It has flattered but turned out to be a lie. I am from Central Kenya, but voted No, because, though to me the draft constitution was okay, the fact that many , due to reason or ignorance, did not like it was not good for the country. And i reasoned that with a No win, the government would have the grace to realize the obvious while the Orange/Bomas group would avoid chest thumping reason with the other side for a reasonable conclusion to the whole matter.

But how wrong was I.
What has subsequently happened has just cemented my belief that politicians were fighting for power and we the Wananchi had no choice but to be caught up in the middle. As it is now whoever wins in 2007 will inherit the seat of power with all its arsenals and may not have the urgency to look at the constitution. True Kenyans are enlightened and may demand change, but i think this enlightenement is more likely to result in people realizing the follies and vanities of politicians and their desire for power, and this unfortunately results in apathy. Examples abound in the French and Italian democracies. The net winnner will be the guy who wins in 2007. And at the rate things are going, i cannot be surprised if it turns out to be Kibaki, meaning that rather than dealing him a fatal blow in Nov 21, we actually arranged his re-election to the presidency with its powers intact.

[mossad]

pKibathi


I disagree with you that Kibaki has a chanse of winning in the coming elections. From the way things look now, i see no possible way Kibaki can convince the majority of kenyans to vote for him.

Mossad.

[politicalmaniac]

Its a case of white washing DP and morphing it into NARC-K (Parodied as NARC-kikuyu).

Alliances are morphing and mutating quickly.
Check this out.

I Love what I am seeing.
>
>http://www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=1&newsid=74528
>
>Alliances set to shift as KOMBO and NGILU eye ODM
>
> "Insiders confirmed that there have been talks involving Ford
>Kenya chairman Musikari Kombo, National Party of Kenya's
>leader Charity Ngilu and Langata MP Raila Odinga of the
>Liberal Democratic Party, who represents the ODM"
>
>AND
>
>"It was notable that senior MERU and MBEERE politicians were
>absent during the launch of the NARC-K party at the Kenyatta
>International Conference Centre (KICC).
>
>Sources said some MPs from the region who were uncomfortable
>with Narc-Kenya, were READY TO JOIN the alliance being
>fashioned by ODM and Mr Kombo and Mrs Ngilu"
>
>WONDERFUL:
>
>THE discombobulated Kombo (he who screamed "Raila cant be
>trusted" is now crawling on his belly seeking out R) seeing
>the light - halleluyia! .
>
>But he will first have to survive the general election, FORD-K
>election, and then take a back seat in ODM alliance. He will
>once again head a departmental ministry if elected.
>
>WONDERFUL
>
>THE "BIACHY" Ngilu, famous for her perimenopausal hot flushes
>she who used to spew venomous attacks on R on behalf of the
>MKM, also now want to ally themselves to R and ODM.
>
>WONDERFUL
>
>EMBU AND MERU: At least they are exploring the option of
>talking to R a luo! how about that!
>
>I dont expect them however to actually seriously explore
>alliances with ODM. I think they are just pouting and
>posturing at their Kikuyu neighbours. The historical,
>cultural, marital, and geographical ties are just too strong
>for them to really abandon the kikuyus politically but its
>comforting in that they have THOUGHT about the western region
>as part of THEIR KENYA for a change.
>
These intact powers will be bestowed on the ODM candidate and the present MKM hawks wont like it one bit

[abdulmote]

Funny this what is happening yet we are fully awake or believe to be! Amazing how parties and 'movements' acquire images and status without any clear and specific declarations of their undertakings, yet we seem so busy 'enjoying' to analyse and predict what they will be doing next. It is as if its a game we are all playing and so keen on participating just for the fun of it! And all along we may appear to 'know' that it is but a "cone game"against us, to use Malcom's term, but here we are fully engaged in fighting for 'their' survival and win at our own expense demise and that is how pathetic we are!

Funny enough it is that I find myself persistently isolated and in minority through my perception of our political being but for others few. I am glad to say that I have never struggled to easily detach my conscience away from partisan Kenyan politics. For me, the ability to look at our 'actors' performance and the acting taking place in an objective scrutiny, is indeed extremely necessary if I was to be true to myself and others I may wish to represent be it without their consented mandate! There is a very clear division between the obvious naivety displayed in many people's thinking, and the reality of our affairs as trully is. But why? I always seem to struggle to understand this one and how to solve it.

One thing we must accept as it is, is the fact that it is pretty clearly established that almost all the leaders we have at the front line lack the necessary minimum level of integrity that any may deserve the people's trust as being given. But why are we reluctant to see it as it is and be ready to criticise any faults persistently as in demand for honest representation? I mean look at those guys, who are the personalities at the top of the ODM? I need not repeat their historical positions and statuses! What should we genuinely expect from such a bunch of personel? Trully! What should we expect from Uhuru, although lately detatched from ODM, son of the late Jomo Kenyatta, very rich and still holding the ownership of vast tracts of fertile land taken away from its natural owners? What should we expect from him that who still retains immense wealth 'unlawfully and usurpingly' grabed?! What should we expect from him, who has not demonstrated any special qualities in an effort towards providing the people of Kenya with outstanding leadership and uniqueness of approach for their affairs apart from bearing the prominence of his ancestory? Honestly, how would you rate Uhuru in his own capacity as a fighter for people's rights? Trully?

How would you rate a person who still clearly appears to be dedicated towards protecting the dictatorial and thieving Dynasties, past, present and no doubt the future's as well? How protective do you think such a person will trully be towards the people's properties? Trully?

[abdulmote]

Here; I just fished the following piece out of my archives. I had written it in Janauary 06 concerning the same issue. It appears nothing much has changed! Please read on:-

ODM must wakeup.
miguna brother, I pray for peace be upon all of us! I have no doubt that we belong to one and the same 'regiment' if not the battalion when in comes to Kenyan politics, and that is enough a comfort for me. No hard feelings.

Thank you all once again and I do hope that your contributions will help us turn on the light amidst our present darkness as events unfold.

Turning back to our subject contents, I must re-assert my displeasure, just like the many that already have, on Kibaki's latest indicative declaration as reported in yesterday’s news. There he was quoted as in the process of initiating the review as if declaring his legitimate public-given mandate to do so!

Of course by doing that, Kibaki could not have been further from the truth. Fact is just as Nyachae had courageously admitted about the same time, is that Kibaki's government has already forfeited its right and indeed any legitimacy as the initiator and director of the Constitutional review as he would falsely and erroneously proclaim to possess.

But to me the sad reality appears not to be what Kibaki is trying to do or display. By now it should be very clear to every one the world over, that there is nothing, and I mean absolutely nothing that Kibaki can be said to be doing correctly and legitimately so! Rather it is the palpable vacuum of alternative leadership which could have legitimately guided us through the process!

Interestingly, it is becoming quite obvious that as Kenyans who have acquired their long deserved democratic rights of free speech and freedom of expression, we have been very busy right from day one of Kibaki's governance, in criticising his each and every move correctly so or otherwise, without shifting the focus of doing so to our own acts or omissions, acts which in effect may only serve to perpetuate the status quo and so assist him in his evil misdeeds! In saying that and with all due respect, I wish not to deny the existence and results of some remarkable positive efforts by quite a few towards providing Kenyans with an alternative and suitable leadership for our own good in some deliberations. But again, it appears as if all that is happening is more of a reaction to Kibaki's misdeeds, instead of being proactive against his very foreseeable and predictable cóckups together with his corrupt tendencies!

This takes me back the question of ODM; It may sadden some people to now realise that KANU is not going to participate (at least at this stage as declared), in fronting a single presidential candidate on behalf of ODM come election 2007. This may also lead others to cheer at the illusive disintegration of ODM, but the truth is the issue of election 2007 should in itself be completely irrelevant to the matters concerning the long overdue constitutional change as desired! And this is the argument!

How I choose to see it is that the ODM's unity of purpose should have been, categorically so, the centre of amalgamating all the energies available in its cause, primarily and solely for the purpose of enabling our good nation to get what it had for so long and desperately desired!
Which brings me to the point firstly; had that been the actual case as some others have also said, then there would be absolutely no need for any disappointments, or indeed any cheering as far as fronting of the presidential candidates by the interested parties in their individual capacities is concerned. Their collective focus should have been wholly dedicated towards getting the Constitution Kenyans want.

Secondly, just as brother johns had observed, the ODM should have and could have taken the full initiative of leading the nation all the way through, rather than appear to be waiting for Kibaki (ggrrrrruh!), in the struggle towards achieving the popular objective!

Thirdly, and this is where my alarm bells are violently screaming, is that by leaving Kibaki to continue holding the reigns of guiding us through the constitutional review, and especially after having clearly seen and experienced his ability and capacity of betrayal to all and sundry, ODM is in effect cheaply selling off what many, perhaps including you and I, have paid towards any gains we may have achieved from the Referendum just concluded!

Can you objectively think of any reasons why this is so? There are quite a few!

Are there any chances that ODM CAN STILL DO much better irrespective of their current status? I say absolutely so!

But in order for the ODM to do anything in that direction, ODM MUST categorically SHIFT ITS ATTENTION from matters of the presidential race, (in effect converting the Referendum win for their own individual selfish gains), to that of solely and strictly taking the overdue initiative of effectively guiding the nation towards getting the Constitution it wants, the focus which should have been its primary and sole objective, at least for now!
In saying that and until then, ODM cannot even begin to think what it actually ought to effectively do! And the risks of, together with the motivations for disintegration of the whole movement will certainly become very real and at a very great and humongous costs to the whole nation! And this should give sufficient reasons, correctly so, for the real "enemies" of Kenyans to have a laugh and cheer upon us due to our own generated failure!

But worst of all, the failure we so much dread and quarrel about, would have only been brought about, once again for the umpteenth time; due to sheer greed and selfish interests of some as has always been the case!

P.S; And I should today add, ironically with the whole nation behind them!
ODM must wake UP!

abdulmote
13/01/2006

[maina]

Folks,
I just tumbled upon an email with the following website: www.raila07.com. Boy, was I thrilled when I opened it principally because I thought Raila Odinga has come to his senses and began addressing exigent matters like his party line, his vision for Kenya come 2008, and so forth. Lakini wapi! Same ol’ flightiness! For instance, how can a website (of all things), of a man who envisions himself a beseeming national leader not have an active “Issues” link? You’ll find his speeches (of course), quotations, and videos but that’s that! Guess he think he can mesmerize all Kenyans like he’s done to the good Luos!

I have no doubt that this be the reason why the intelligent and teachable Kenyans want nothing to do with him. What does he believe in? Why can’t I seem to get myself around this question?

I think this website was created for Raila and his Luo wooers and that is why the whole thing is just downright immodest. But then again, shouldn’t we expect these unworthy and swinish details from Raila Odinga and his schism? How terrible………….

-unedited-

Maina

[maina]

Habari Oloo!
I was wondering why you haven't responded to the mouthful of contentions (featured on Kenya Online and op-ed) that you are aspiring to replace one Jakoyo Midiwo in the House! But Oloo, knowing you, I hesitate with devotion in imagining you being part of the objectionable LDP. Actually, in the Kenya Times, here's what I saw, "Interestingly, a number of the sitting MPs are related to Raila in one way or another. Clear cases are Ayacko; who is a member of Raila's Sakwa clan, Odhiambo Omamba, related to Raila's wife, Idda, Gor Sunguh, married to Raila's niece (Oburu Odinga's daughter) and Jakoyo Midiwo (his maternal cousin), among others." Sounds like another DP/MKM, don't it? Besides, LDP does not have brazen and overt Marxists, but then again, one never knows what they're up to!

So anyways, is this "rumour" genuine? And if it is, which multitude suits your tastes?

Maina

-unedited-

[maina]

Roughrider,
Thank you for your kind remarks - they are very humbling. Just keep on keeping on! As in, Go Tinga go! When all this over, I hope you and I can still be friends. In other words, I hope the day will come when a noble Kenyan fellow like you, me, Abdulmote, Job, Politicalmaniac, et cetera, will look beyond our leaders' images and apperances, and begin to address politics - not individual politics, but national politics.

Anyhow, you are of course free to continue worshipping Raila Odinga. I continue to be beautifully bemused at the way he mesmerizes his wooers!

Maina

-unedited-

[roughrider]

Abdulmote – are you trying to confuse us or merely test our patience? Cross-posting, mixing issues and recalling threads from weeks ago without their correct context…etc… all to make what point?

That ODM is 6 months old and that there is nothing to show for it? Or to try and seem more prophetic than Isaiah? Or to repeat the tired refrain that we know you borrowed from Moi ‘none of the current crop is qualified to lead’?

C’mon, give us a break!

1. Yes, it is several months since the last major battle on constitutional reform, but if you know your history well it is several decades since the first progressive forces realized that it ‘was not yet Uhuru’. Aluta continua!

2. Yes you have said it before in January and 6 months down the line you can remind us again that you said it …but whence your reminders?

3. The current crop of leaders are visionless and have nothing to offer, but I notice that they are the ones with the courage and conviction to offer themselves up for election. What does democracy mean anyway? We are stuck with them, until those that you think are better come to the fore... I would particularly like to see online pundits with 'holier than thou' attitudes roll up their sleeves and take up the 'challenge of leadership'. Its better than moaning.

Maina: Let us remain civil; I suppose even attacks against Raila Odinga can be done civilly and with decorum. They can be less personalized and more constructive. They can be stripped of mindless railaphobia and myopic tribalism. Grant us that... and on the other hand we can stop praising him in ways that grate you so much. Deal?

[aeichener]

roughrider said:

roll up their sleeves and take up the 'challenge of leadership'.

There is no challenge of "leadership". Spare me these fetid Migunaisms.

There is however a challenge of service, and *that* is what is lacking in Kenya.

Alexander

[maina]

Maina: Let us remain civil; I suppose even attacks against Raila Odinga can be done civilly and with decorum. They can be less personalized and more constructive. They can be stripped of mindless railaphobia and myopic tribalism. Grant us that... and on the other hand we can stop praising him in ways that grate you so much. Deal?

Roughrider,
Now you are exhibiting some opprobrious traits? Ati you want me to be civil when discussing one Raila Odinga in Jukwaa? Pliiiiz!

Ati "decorum"?? In my books, deocrum does not and never will equate to Raila Odinga! Why are you asking me to be a rationalist like you? What has Raila Odinga got to offer me, and the other Christians and conservatives in Kenya? You mean kenyans have become sooooooo cheap? d**n!

Maina

-unedited-

[abdulmote]

"3. The current crop of leaders are visionless and have nothing to offer, but I notice that they are the ones with the courage and conviction to offer themselves up for election. What does democracy mean anyway? We are stuck with them, until those that you think are better come to the fore... I would particularly like to see online pundits with 'holier than thou' attitudes roll up their sleeves and take up the 'challenge of leadership'. Its better than moaning."

RR, I notice that this is at least a second time you have tried having a 'go' at my person for some rather very 'obvious' reasons however unfortunate those may be. Clutching at the straws and desperately trying to maitain your head high just for the sake of it is not one of the traits I would enjoy. Well, let me tell you matey, you don't surprise me or even indeed dissappoint me at all! the reaction such as yours is expected, for certainly you neatly fit in among those who would try anything to counter the simple truths for the satisfaction of their own egos, and those are quite a few out there!

Let me make one thing clear to you, parhaps it may be of help; firstly, I have never and will never proclaim myself to be either perfect, superior, or unblemished as you implied in one of your posts earlier. By highlighting the need to be aware of our weaknesses, it does not mean that I have 'excluded' myself from the possibilities of the same. Indeed I am very much aware and will always endeavour to remain so, that as a human being, I posses qualities of weakness which are commonly found everywhere and those which can indeed be harmful to myself as well as others near me. That is to say, potentially, we as humans can be deadly and even self destructive, and I am no different as such, so be warned! Capacitywise and potentially, I can be corrupt, selfish, greedy, emotionally erratic, irrationally defensive, dishonest, unfaithfull, "subjective", clearly biased, or what have you, either with one or many of these qualities or a combination of some or all of them! Now ask yourself, which ones do you actually possess?

Secondly; you impliedly challenged me to "role up my sleeves and...". I must acknowledge that Alex aptly and wonderfully described such comments as "migunaism" and indeed they seem to be! I remember miguna coming up with the same kind of 'evasive tacts' before giving up against the headache I had caused him on the same issue before, just as you appear to be now as reflected within similar remarks of yours and thinking. "those leaders are the ones who have had the courage to offer themselves for elections...blah blah blah...". I say thats fine, I am not at all disputing that. Neither am I here trying to suggest that I am the "holier than thou" kind of a person. In fact, I would suggest that you should not take me to be as such, even if you think for reasons of your own I may be so! Beacuse I am human and the inherent 'evil' in me could be hidding in somewhere there but do not see. And so I would encourage you not to simply trust me unquestioningly as a naive individual would do! I 'd say always remain vigilant upon your interests and of those you care for. No, I may not be "holier than thou" as you suggest!

Thirdly; on the issue of "taking the leadership challenge", I am afraid you have got it all wrong although as I had stated earlier, I do not blame you. First of all we have to bear in mind that in criticising the leaders that we have and their acts, it does not mean one is simply suggesting to be a better alternative. Far from that! In fact it is very possible that such a person e.g. my good self, may not provide better leadership than the presently available at all! But that is beside the point.

On the other hand, I think it is very apt and necessary, that everyone should question our leaders' performance and integrity at every turn and move, and demand for more, that we may be able to hold them to real accountability of their actions, so far as they represent our interests! That indeed is a very necessary stance for any prudent person, you included, unless you want to exclude yourself as one! ;D

Another point which I feel prompted to inform you, is that my ássumption of a critical position does not mean I should either shut up or put up with whatever is thrown at me, whether good or bad, otherwise I must be seen to be engaged in some "leadership" busy body contest as you suggest! To be honest this remark reminds me that persons of such characteristics as clearly displayed herein, are the very reasons why people should persistently enhance their vigilance at all times in all the matters affecting their affairs! Wow, talk of partisan and corrupt tendencies! I cannot help but wonder what the motivating factors in this instance could be, but here we are.

Now lets cut this personal 'attacks' for a moment, distasteful engagement I must say. But I must remind you that I did warn you before, not once but more than once and here I repeat the same; try not to avoid the specific issues I had raised in this thread when responding. I must also point out that in all of your responses, not in a single one of them did you bother to specifically counter or rebutt any of the points I had raised earlier and the points of contention under this thread. Yours were simply the common 'evasive tactics', usually displayed by those who simply oppose any observations just for the sake of it, or parhaps for want of a better argument, because they have always been thinking differently and so they must maintain the status quo. Or parhaps due to some hidden reasons which are left for anyone's guess. Just try again matey, eventually you may be able to succeed.

P.S: When the day comes and my opportunity arrives to be seen and heard by all in Kenya, I can assure you, you will have no reason to doubt my desires and abilities then. Lakini poa for now.