ARMENIAN TRUTH IS CONFIRMED........

[KOLONEL BRISK]

Police arrest Armenian brothers in night raid

Story by OWINO OPONDO
Publication Date: 6/9/2006

Police are holding the two Armenian brothers at the heart of mercenary claims.

Also arrested were three people found with them at their posh Runda estate in Nairobi during the police swoop at 1am (2200hrs GMT).

Found at the palatial home were car registration plates for government, diplomatic and civilian vehicles. Also parked at the residence were 15 luxury cars, some bearing GK (government) registration.

Military uniforms, hoods, and a gun bag were also found in the house.

About 50 police officers led by Gigiri police boss Patrick Lumumba used a truck to pull down the gate when the Armenians refused to open.

Police then flushed out the Armenians and bundled them into a waiting saloon car. They were driven to the Gigiri police station and later transferred to Kileleshwa police station this morning.

The two brothers who have been described as investors by the Government had earlier caused a scene at the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport when they refused to have their baggage inspected by customs officers. It is still not clear where they were arriving from.

It is understood that the two declined to have their bags inspected by customs officers in keeping with practice.

[KOLONEL BRISK]

May be Raila was right after all. These are the same pple who were to invest in housing and ended up renting. There is more to this story than we are made to belive. The truth will one day be known.

[mzee]

Raila was right all along. The question is, what deal do these fellows have in Kenya? And with which people?

[aeichener]

Let's be honest.


Kenya *deserved* these clowns. Plain and simple.

Alexander

[KOLONEL BRISK]

Wow the truth is finally out. We should be told why Chris Murangaru ( Minister for security) brought them to Kenya and what their mission was and the reason for the fallout. Surely should we contract mercenaries to train our Police? Kenyans need to know.

[KOLONEL BRISK]

I've been casually following the developing story with the Armenian mercenaries in Kenya. The brothers, Artur Margaryan and Artur Sargasyan, were deported earlier this week, and a search of their Runda Estate home revealed some interesting stuff: Kenyan passports, Kenyan police ID cards, assault rifles (apparently from the government), Kenyan police Quick Response Unit jackets (the same ones used in the deplorable Standard raid), guns, ammunition, bulletproof vests, security cards giving them unrestricted access to the airport and 15 cars, some with government plates.

The two brothers, who claim they're not mercenaries and who many people believe aren't really Armenian, apparently had high-level government contacts. The Nation reported a senior cabinet minister pleaded with the police chief not to carry out the raid (to no avail, obviously).

The Standard reported the "inside story" about the brothers. The paper said they planned to "to transform a section of Kenya’s security forces into a crack commando unit" and that they were brought to the country by a high-level cabinet member. The Standard's source apparently didn't want to say more for fear that the Armenians were part of a larger underground group that might be tracked by the CIA.

The Standard also added this tidbit: "Sources privy to insider information say that the two acted as 'political fixers,' a term used in the underworld Mafia to describe individuals who can coax, cajole, threaten, eliminate and carry out espionage work on behalf of clients and for political reasons."

Artur Margaryan called the Standard and said he was just a businessman and said "I am not a friend of the government. I am an enemy of this government. But I am disturbed by these reports showing I was a criminal. Why did the government let me leave?" He said he was calling from his hometown, Dubai, and would transfer all his investments to Uganda because Kenya was too tribalistic.

I wish I had a bit more insight on this so I could see through all the misinformation and differing claims. If anyone has been following a bit more closely, feel free to comment.

Artur Margaryan and Artur Sargsayan, colorful Armenian characters who are apparently brothers, were arrested and then deported from Kenya, according to news reports. These guys first came to our attention in the context of the Kenya media raids in which they seemed to be central figures, and are notable for their what's-yer-problem, we-already-bought-this-country attitude when strutting around Kenya.

First, the story of the arrest: Kenya: Artur Brothers Arrested After Airport Gun Drama Margaryan and Sagarsyan forced their way out of the airport with over 12 bags they yanked from the baggage's conveyor belt before they could be opened up for inspection.

Investigations by the Saturday Standard revealed that the passes for the brothers were issued on February 10 while the other three for their "aides" were issued on Thursday morning hours before they turned up at the airport to receive their "brother" and "sister" from Dubai.

The man and woman arrived with the bags with unidentified cargo and it was on their arrival that the airport drama began. Sagarsyan and Margaryan were allowed into the airport without screening, a privilege the KAA security booklet last revised in 2004 says is reserved for President and Cabinet members. The only other category of people exempted from this stringent rule is foreign envoys, and special groups who must be escorted to the plane's elevator by armed police.

I still would like to know what that pair were really up to. The whole thing had a kind of start-up with venture capital feel to me, and I continue to wonder who was paying for their attempts to buy the place with beads.

Wonder what will become of their menagerie of attack dogs and attack crocodiles. Sometime back, Artur Margaryan, said he has brought to his residence more dogs and crocodiles to beef up his security. This is in addition to the ten dogs he had imported earlier. Westlands legislator Fred Gumo and his Makadara counterpart Reuben Ndolo should probably be warned not to take their threats to storm his residence, lest they be devoured by the crocodiles.

There's something reminiscent of The Old Lady Who Swallowed the Fly here. I've been wondering where this story was going. Perhaps it would have ended with the the Arturs being eaten by their, er, security forces.

(Who is cleaning up after all the animals, anyway? They have how many killer dogs? Wonder how it smells in there.)

I remain really interested in finding out who these guys are, their true names and identity and where they came from. Did the Kenya police finger print them? While deporting them what procedure was used to pick the country of their destination? ??

[kamalet]

This is a rag appearing in Mashada which has snippets of truth I have heard elsewhere:

This juicy piece was forwarded to me from Durban South Africa:

Everyone is celebrating the fall on one Joseph Kamau who is viewed as the the kingpin and government contact person of the Arturs. But more is yet to come, It is revieled that kamau is very bitter because of being set up by his Mount Kenya brothers who are nowhere to defend him now that the fire is burning him.
He intimates that all backs back to 2004 when he was appointed the CID director(Headhunted by Murungaru). He was askd to accomapy the minister to a trip in the sychelles where he 1st met the Arturs. Alot of issues of security training and procurement were discussed. The artur intimated that they had previously worked for the Kanu governement and gave their referees as Cheriot and Biwot. Murungaru came back with their proposal and went ahead to contact Biwot(who had then been sidelined politically)to know the Arturs better. Biwot informed him that the fellows are real workers and could accomplish any TASK they are handed and leave no traces behind.
Murungaru thereafter held lengthy discussions with Kamau where he proposed that Kamau being 'Mundu wa Nyumba' should set up an elite squad (similar to the special branch of moi)that would be used to 'protect and work for our people' because the current composition of the police and CID was quite suspect. The Arturs will then be iven a test by training this team.This lead to the creation of the QRU & Kanga units the QRU being a secresive commando unit while the Kanga was to fight Mungiki and assist the SCPU to fight crime. This brought in Artur Margaryan into the police force. He did his training, was paid and left the country. Towards 2004, Margaryan was back this time with a proposal to do security business with the Kenya government and since he had established his contacts, he was received with open palms. With the right connections, he had a chance of meeting Wambui and just like in the moi era, for a foreigner to excel in business, you give shares to your contact person, Wambui was the natural shareholder due to her proximity to the powers that be. Murungaru was also a silent shareholder of the various companies set up and the firms were into business.
Once in the country and in business, the Arturs had a chance to meet the other usiness partners of Wambui where they were introduced to one Joho who was aparently contesting the Kisauni seat on an LDP ticket. It was no secret that wambui was campaigning for Joho although he was being sponsored by the 'enemy of the government) During the campaigns the Arturs managed to meet kina Raila, Kalonzo and the then luminaries of LDP but eventually Joho was defeated by Mwamboza. Being business men and sharing the same kingpin, Joho and Margaryan continued meeting. Mid 2005 and Raila decides that they will not back the government in the referendum and eventually form the ODM. The ODM was supposed to seek funds to finance ther campaigns and Joho was their fundraiser in Mombasa. He arranged for a meeting between Raila and the Artur brothers amongst the other LDP fellows to boast their cash contribution toward ODM. Whereas the two have never indicated what was given out by Artur, it was obviously not 108M, but a handful of millions.
Somewhere along the way, Kalonzo was for the idea of convincing artur that since ODM was winning the referendum and he MKM government will be kicked out, Artur was supposed ditch the government side and to be on their side. That was how the issue of bullet proof vests and guns came up. All the same, ODM on the referendum but did not constitute the government and therefore blackmail started with Wambui demanding that Artur asks Raila & Kalonzo to refund the money they gave to them for the referendum else he should be scared with death. Raila on his part being the 'sungura mjaja'he is knew the best way to fix the guys is to brow the whistle and say they are mercenaries which worked. Thereafter, the Arturs have being planning and carrying out various 'projects' with Kamau but with the blessings of the governemnt.Noone has raised a finger before even when the police IDs, guns and passes were issued and signed by none other than Ali himself. Kamau tehrefore feels betrayed by being picked alone and sent home while he knows too well the work they have carried out for the state with these guys.
Should Kamau defect to Dubai also? He knows too much and therefore his life may be in danger.

Perhaps the COI will be unearthing much more than would have come out of an ordinary police investigation, and I expect that the list of beneficiaries will make the Pattni list rather dull!!!

[politicalmaniac]

KAMALE

LET US IN ON THE SNIPPETS SO WE CAN COMPARE NOTES.

THIS STORY IN OF ITSELF "SOUNDS" CREDIBLE.

THE ONLY SNIPPET I HAVE HEARD IS THE JOHO CONNECTION TO THE PRESENT GOVT.

MY QUESTION REMAINS, IF R IS INVOLVED WITH THESE GUYS, IF R GOT MONEY, SURELY THIS GOVT WOULD BE HELL BENT ON RELEASING THE EVIDENCE WITH UNABASHED AGGRESSION.

WHERE IS THE BEEF AS MONDALE ONCE SAID!

THE PIECE IS AN INTERESTING PIECE OF PROPAGANDA AT THIS STAGE OF THE GAME

[mossad]

Mr Kamale

They usually say you can fool some pple some times but not all pple.
You've tried hard to link Raila to the Arturs but you usually know that we wont buy that gabbage you are trying to feed on us.
Kibaki and Wamboi are behind these thugs. Keep on trying. I know your hatred for the ODM and none Kikuyus which have been evidenced by the filth you said before on this Blog. At least, there are many of us to prove you wrong.

Mossad.

[KOLONEL BRISK]

“Good name in man and woman, dear my lord, Is the immediate jewel of their souls: Who steals my purse steals trash; ’tis something, nothing; ’Twas mine, ’tis his, and has been slave to thousands; But he that filches from me my good name Robs me of that which not enriches him And makes me poor indeed.” Othello- William Shakespeare. Freedom of speech, the right to a defence, the right to privacy; a myriad of rights and freedoms are promised to us in accordance with the laws of the free and democratic world in which we supposedly live but how many of these promises are actually worth the paper in the law-books that they’re written on? Not many it would appear, judging from the experiences of recent years.

Some people, it would seem, have the freedom of speech to slander and to defend dishonesty while others, innocent people and usually, the victims, are denied the very basic right to defend themselves against furtive, false accusations, harassment and slander. We, as a society, quite rightly, condemn acts of violence and murder but violence need not be just physical. Character assassination is almost as lethal a crime which kills people without physically killing them. Smear campaigns abound even at the most powerful and influential levels of society. People with power and influence may be able to defend themselves against such harassment but what happens to your ordinary person, particularly, your ordinary Muslim when s/he finds him/herself the victim of such a campaign, bearing in mind the precarious situation that Muslims of the West have found themselves in following the tragic events of 9/11 and 7/7? Sadly, some of us don’t have to look very far to find out.

Lets condemn our leaders based on their records and promises. What they say and do. the following is an interview with Raila.


This is a transcript of Raila odinga’s interview with Louis Otieno on KTN’s Newsline, May 13th 2005.

We know you as the Raila (Odinga) who was detained twice, eight years in prison, who has switched parties four times. Why is there doubt about you? Why can’t we be able to visualize your vision?

The struggle for change in this country is as old as since the country got independence. We have two forces pulling apart. One force for popular transformation of the country and the other for maintaining the status quo. We have been consistent in our deliberations. The forces have been pulling in opposite directions.

Why is there suspicion and doubt. Why can’t people not get you right? Why are people doubting you?

Its not that my vision is not visible lest the many people who are supporting us would not have been there. Many people are with us. I am writing a book that will explain much of my vision for this country. I represent a group that wants to see fundamental changes done in society. We should give opportunity for every child to deserve better than what we have now. We don’t want to be compared as the worst in the world. I believe most in moving from politics of ethnicity and discrimination to a knowledge-based economy.

You have talked about the generation gap, the young do not get you right as it was with Martin Luther King who chased a vision. Why the suspicion and doubt? Why are people not getting it?

The issue is not about clarity of vision, but that the circumstances that we are operating under are different from the one of Luther’s. He talked about emanicipation of blacks from the yoke of oppression. We have something special. It is social transformation of the country from pre-colonial economy to a modern economy.

What is special? To what extent have you changed socially, economically and politically?

Luther King came in at a time that the black movement struggle was on. Sometimes, struggles take twists and turns, forms and time. I have been consistent, I have been clear in my vision for the country, I have strategy and tactics of doing it. Sometimes, the course may change. That’s when we change tactics.

We have a strategy on how to approach issues. We inherited a divided Kenya with a bad constitution. We failed to unite the people with a common ideology like Mwalimu Nyerere did in Tanzania. Kaggia (Bildad) and Oginga (Odinga) wanted political transformation, but it never came to be under Kenyatta. When Nyayo came he perfected that art.

How come you are still the same now?

Circumstances have changed. We are living in a more open society. Go down the memory lane and see how opinion was closed out. I have now changed. I am a leader in a government that sometimes reasons. We talk to seek solutions.

Then why send us back to the streets knowing what will be done? There are grills all over in shops in Nairobi because of street anarchy. Do you want to take us back to the dark times?

My pronouncement was completely taken out of context. Before I made it you saw the amount of intolerance exhibited by removing six key members of LDP from PSC list. That is not fair for a national constitution. LDP is the largest political party in the coalition to DP which is has now the lion share. If they want to impose the unpopular we will protest.

Nobody Is talking about storming parliament. A peaceful procession to express displeasure if parliament intends to mutilate the Bomas Draft is what we will carry out. All chapters were passed and met the two thirds majority as per the CKRC Act.

Who are they?

The DP faction of Narc. Protests are done everywhere. In the UK you see people protest, in Congress, USA, and all over the world to express what they want to achieve. Kenyans want to see a people-driven constitution. If somebody has no intent to push for another constitution then they should stop worrying. The street should not be demonized by the media, people have the right to express dissatisfaction in the way they feel. Kenya must be able to institutionalize the culture of tolerance. Expression of people’s views must be respected and accepted. If Parliament does not alter the Bomas Draft there is nothing to fear. People spoke and the Commission under the auspices of Ghai codified their views.

Are you resigning from the committee(PSC)?

If dialogue does not ensue, I will resign.

When?

Before the committee sits.

What should be done to get a new constitution, according to you?

Bomas draft should be taken to parliament, passed and then sent to the people for a referendum or in case anybody has another constitution somewhere we take them to the people and vote for them.

Does the Bomas draft itself need to be fixed ? At what point do you have to fix it?

There is no constitution in the world that is perfect. When we wear it and feel where it pinches then we can start to fix it.

Kombo (Musikari) blames you and Murungi (Kiraitu) for the divergent views you have taken and digressing from what was agreed in the Naivasha accord.

Kombo is aware that Uhuru, him and me left the Naivasha meeting to attend the funeral of the late Angatia. It was only Kituyi and Murungi who were left to report on the outcome of the meeting. Kombo is being hypocritical and trying to please both sides. That is his weakness.

Whenever issues of principle arise Kombo has been wanting. That is not the quality of a good leader . What is happening to LDP in Narc now will tomorrow happen to Ford-Kenya. Is that the way he will react?


I hope we will be able to join the rest of the Kenyans in qualitative review of our leaders and pursuit of the same.

Never does a man portray his own character more vividly than in his manner of portraying another.

[politicalmaniac]

Kombo is aware that Uhuru, him and me left the Naivasha meeting to attend the funeral of the late Angatia. It was only Kituyi and Murungi who were left to report on the outcome of the meeting. Kombo is being hypocritical and trying to please both sides. That is his weakness.

Whenever issues of principle arise Kombo has been wanting. That is not the quality of a good leader . What is happening to LDP in Narc now will tomorrow happen to Ford-Kenya. Is that the way he will react?


The chickens have to roost for my Hommie Kombo kmbo the discombulated one

With Kituyi in full riot what will Kombo do?
It seems R foretold this crises in my former party F-K

[kamalet]

mossad said:

Mr Kamale

They usually say you can fool some pple some times but not all pple.
You've tried hard to link Raila to the Arturs but you usually know that we wont buy that gabbage you are trying to feed on us.
Kibaki and Wamboi are behind these thugs. Keep on trying. I know your hatred for the ODM and none Kikuyus which have been evidenced by the filth you said before on this Blog. At least, there are many of us to prove you wrong.

Mossad.

Mossad,

If you actually read what I posted, I was very clear that I was pasting somethin from Mashada.com on the issue at hand. No where did I claim I was painting Raila this or that...that is for the judgement of the Kenyan people. It is strange that the likes of you only see Raila being hit at and come out in full defence before even trying to find out if actually allegations have been made and proved against him or even the people you are hitting at are the ones that made those allegations!

Dont you find it strange that you have now found it fitting to actually make judgement about my postings as garbage? I am not sure the mature audience in Jukwaa is in the habit of using the language you used.

Your thinking about my views of ODM is also wrong. I have no reason to hate ODM, but I can assure you I do not agree with its policies and a number of its leaders. Precisely in the same manner you are entitled to hold the view you have of Kibaki and Wambui. If I can respect that....surely why would you struggle to respect my views about ODM and its leadership?

[KOLONEL BRISK]

Armenian duo unmasked


Dirty, murky, dangerous past of...


By TIMES TEAM

CONTROVERSY scarred Armenian brothers…..Artur Margaryan and Artur Sargasyan deported amid mercenary allegations are international criminals implicated in gun running and drug trafficking, Kenya Times has reliably learnt.

According to information in our possession, the two Armenians first fled to Turkey, after their dismissal from the Czech Army, following indictment for involvement in drugs and arms trafficking activities. Margaryan was subsequently arrested and jailed for 10 months in Turkey.

Margaryan and Sargasyan, whose real names are yet to be established, were members of an elite unit within the Czech Army unit before being discharged disgracefully.

It has also emerged that intelligence sources warned the government about the Arturs’ activities in the third week of March 2006, a whole three months before they infamously drew pistols on police and Customs officers at the Jomo Kenyatta International Airport, as they made nonsense of security requirement that entails declaration of, and inspection of luggage being brought into the country, setting the stage for their deportation on 11th May 2006. A memo from an Intelligence officer to his superiors described Brothers Artur as “dangerous individuals ready to kill for the sake of money,”... and continues: “In view of the foregoing, Margaryan and Sargasyan are international criminals who have excelled in organized criminal activities. They are knowledgeable in mercenary acts, gun-running and drug trafficking.”

Investigations by the intelligence indicate that the two brothers have been using forged passports to conceal their real identity.

Equally puzzling are revelations that the Armenian duo, knew former drug baron, the late Ibrahim Akasha and that during their stay in the country, they frequented the General Service Unit (GSU) headquarters and Training school where the Sh 6.4 billlion cocaine had been stored before the haul was destroyed.

Investigations have established that Margaryan and Sargasyan are brothers who arrived in the country on different dates. First to jet in was Margaryan on November 10, 2005 using passport number AB0322223, aboard Emirates Airlines flight number EK719 at 1.18 pm from Dubai.

He subsequently left the country on two occasions, first on November 15 the same year at 11.24 pm aboard British Airways (BA) 064 to London and returned on December 13, 2005 aboard EK 721 from Dubai. He was accompanied by his brother Sargasyan whose passport was then recorded as AF 0699780.

Having landed in the country and determined to conceal their identities, the duo’s first move was to apply for a class “H” entry permit, which is issued to investors. They received the permits numbers 848479 and 848480 on January 23, 2006. Class “H” permit are issued to “ a person or persons who intend to engage, whether alone or in partnership in a specific trade, business or profession in the country.

Accordingly, the individuals so granted such a permit must have either obtained or is assured of getting a license, registration or the authority to conduct business and has the full capital and other resources for the purpose but no documents are available to confirm whether the Artur brothers had sufficient capital to venture into any serious business venture.

The second time, Margaryan left the country was on December 22, 2005 at 11.26 aboard EK 722 to Dubai and returned on January 22 at a 4.56 pm aboard KQ 435 from Kinshasa, Democratic Republic of Congo.

During his first visit, Margaryan is said to have been introduced to various high ranking government dignitaries by an influential wheeler-dealer businessman of Asian origin and it was through these dignitaries that Margaryan used to found the Brother Link International Limited, whose license number 120905 was issued on December 1, 2005. Its directors are Margaryan, Sargasyan and Winnie Wangui.

It has also emerged that the purported arrival of Sargasyan from Dubai on March 13, the day they held a press conference at the JKIA’s VIP lounge to exonerate themselves from mercenary allegations was one massive hoax. They had not arrived from anywhere for the names of the two Armenians were never reflected on passenger manifests of all the flights originating from Dubai.

According to investigations, it was all managed by shadowy handlers in a bid to either conceal or confuse Kenyans on the raid on the Standard Group offices.

And yesterday, controversy surrounding the whereabouts of the three visitors whom Margaryan and Sargysyan went to receive at the JKIA on June 8 deepened when it emerged that they are still in the country, though mystery surrounds their whereabouts.

Three names have popped up, involving a Russian and two Indian nationals indicating they were received by the Artur brothers after arriving into the country aboard an Emirates flight number EK 721 from the United Arab Emirates.

They are Aman Mohamed Umar Quresh from India whose passport is given as E7608026, Gevoirkiyan Arthur, a Russian with passport number 7610149 and a Manish Yadav, holder of passport number is A2451671. But these visitors were neither deported with the Arturs nor their luggage inspected, according to emerging reports. They are believed to be still in Kenya. A joint attempt was made by the Artur brothers to smuggle them in with their luggage raising suspicion about their mission.

One account has it that they were received by the Arturs on the fateful Thursday night before the fracas that saw the Armenians draw guns and slap Customs and Immigration officials.

Another accounts state that the three were received at the JKIA accompanied by a prominent Nairobi businessman (name withheld) who received them at the Duty Free lounge .

And yet another account shows that the businessman met or contacted the Arturs before or after arriving at JKIA to assist him smuggle in the foreigners without inspection and immigration protocol.

The approach for assistance from the Arturs sustains the media reports that they had unlimited access to all JKIA’s facilities.

Meanwhile, police in Nairobi on Saturday arrested a close accomplice of the Arturs in the city’s Parklands estate. The man, of Indian origin and only referred to as Niju, was arrested in his house and taken to the Parklands police station where he remained locked up for the better part of yesterday.

He is said to have been a constant companion of the Armenian brothers at a restaurant in Parklands 4th Avenue, and despite the Artur’s affluent disposition, he (Niju) is reported to have been the one meeting the bills incurred.

Elsewhere, the Government stand over the Armenian brothers received yet another blow yesterday with Nairobi Archbishop Ndingi Mwana Nzeki describing the presence of the foreigners in the country as an “inside job.”

Speaking after presiding over a mass at the Buruburu Catholic Church, Mwana Nzeki expressed suspicions that the Armenian brothers stay in Kenya must have been sanctioned by top Government officials who must now be revealed and sacked.

“How did they (Margaryan and Sargasyan) come into the country? Somebody must have brought them in,” remarked the top cleric. He added: “I suspect that someone knows everything about the two men and he should now be sacked.”

[kamalet]

Before trusting Kenya Times' stories as providing gospel truth, remember this:

jukwaa.proboards58.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=1150136659

[politicalmaniac]

Kamalet,

Whats your version? What do you know?
What do you know about these armenians?

[johns]

kamalet,

I understand how you must be feeling, it is called denial. You are not the only one kibaki has let down he has done the same thing to his own wife and daughter and therefore your feeling does not count as far as he is concerned. This president is capable of selling his own mother to the highest bidder and would look you in the eye and deny it even when the very mother is photographed doing manual labour as a slave in a foreign land.

[mzee]

Its madness for someone to deny the fact that Kibaki has been eating githeri with the two criminals. He even took them to Uganda in his jet

[kamalet]

@ Johns

The thread is not about Kamale. Stick with the topic!!!

Mzee,

The bit about the Arturs going to Uganda in the presidential jet must surely be nonsense!! How come the media did not notice the lot board the aircraft at JKIA but the same media will happily report what the politicians are saying!!

I think Kenyans are going about this Armenian saga the wrong way. Continuously throwing all sorts of allegation without backing things up tends to cloud what we really should be knowing, and once the entry of political score setting becomes the vogue, then Kenyans will never know the truth. The politicians want it controlled by parliament so that they can hide the money they received whilst the executive wants a COI so that they can expose the politicians whilst letting a few of their own be the fall guys! Finally it will be the Arturs who will be the winners and the losers will be the ordinary Kenyan that was embarrassed by the utoto involving all these fellows.

[politicalmaniac]

@kamale
quote "I think Kenyans are going about this Armenian saga the wrong way. Continuously throwing all sorts of allegation without backing things up tends to cloud what we really should be knowing"

Every time a scandal erupts that engulfs your homeboy, the above refrain spouts out of your mouth as if it is programmed to.

With martha ( She who used to thump her husband, my ex-boss, I cant forgive her for that BTW) valiantly blocking parliamentary oversight, how do we get to the bottom of this?

They didnt ride in our Airforce one. I agree.

But they did get in SH
There is photograhic evidence. (You will retort "those could be doctored" I know, Like the Mbai tapes?).

murungaru, jimmy K, murage know something, in addition to wangui mwai and mary her mum.

I am just happy seeing this illegitimate GOVT lurch from crises to crises and in no time dec 2007 will be around the corner when we shall ultimately boot it out.

The artur saga has EMBARRASED a majority of Kenyans ( I am not sure if the MKM and their hard core supporters are as embarrased as the rest of us though).

[kamalet]

Pmaniac,

As I said I hold brief for no one. All I am saying is that we are all falling for the same tricks that politicians use to cloud our judgement so that we do not know what exactly happens!!!

Did the Arturs go to SH? If they did, show us the evidence....anyone going there is booked for a reason or other. The point is that if they went to see Kibaki, then there will be evidence that they did as there will be records to show. But would going to see Murage mean that it was at Kibaki's behest? I do not this it is that automatic, but we need to be told by those making the allegations what they know - either to the Muite committee or to the Kiruki commission. The posturing you see will be used as proof of persecution when the same people are caught up with!

I sometimes cannot believe the manipulations Kenyans put up with when some of the scandals come out, and even how easily they are conned!!

This saga has embarrassed the government and just like ALF some heads will roll. The government is in need of a self cleaning crusade and and what we keep giving it are opportunities to stall this by politicising everything - not toget to the bottom of it all, but to settle cheap political scores.

Pmaniac, I can assure you I am as anxiuos as the next Kenyan to know the truth in this saga. But the competing interests I see means that I will never know the truth. It is that sad!!!

[mzee]

Kamalet;
However we look at the Arturs issue, it seems that the SH was and is still involved. That is embarrassing enough. Now wether they took kibakis jet to UG or not does not matter. Lets be honest, Kibaki has let us down

[roughrider]

My 50 cents on this…

This so called ‘Arturs Saga’ is not to be dismissed or wished away as another ‘small’ misstep in a series of national goofs that have characterized the Kibaki administration. It is a grave matter touching on national security and transcends cheap political innuendo and posturing.

Senior elements in the government have been implicated in serious breaches of security and dereliction of duty including alleged irregular issuance of national passports, airport security passes, guns from the presidential security, letters of appointment to senior police positions, tax evasion, carjackings among other crimes involving the deported foreigners.

This is nothing short of an outrage! It is not a matter of LDP vs. NARC-K or Uhuru vs. Kibaki. No way. It represents serious abdication of the primary responsibility of any state. It is an indication of, as one commentator put it, gross system wide failure and in my book it is UNFORGIVABLE. The buck stops squarely with the head of state.

It is ridiculous and hypocritical for the government to turn around and form a commission of inquiry into the activities of the foreigners after deporting them. The said inquiry will be held in camera away from public probity. We all know it is a cover up and yet another stinging insult to collective intelligence the Kenyan people.

Everybody knows that the root causes of this disgrace can be traced to the vicious power fights pitting two groups in Kibaki’s state house (the Wambui and Lucy led factions) and to the minority mandate with which Kibaki now purports to run this country after the break up of NARC and the categorical referendum loss last November.

[50cents]

So Bwana Kamale where do you think this Armenium issue originated???
It is said that the kibaki's are involved. Is this a lie??

Scenario
"Your wife runs a venture with individuals whos characters are dubious. Would we assume that you are not aware of this venture" Suppose a scandal is involved in such a deal, wouldnt you be worried of its consequence??

I agree with you that the topic isnt about the Kamale, but the issues you've raised must be questioned. Its for the same reason that His excellency must tell us how excellent his judgement was on the Armenian issue.

The Armenian issue hasnt gone down well especially, among others, where they attacked the officers at the Airport. Ok, scratch that and imagine the credibility issues we face in the eyes of the international community.

How about the financial effect is has on the country and here we are talking both long term and short term. Down grading of the Airport, blacklisting of the airport, some businessess taken elsewhere and the list goes on. By the way the relationship between the armenians and the president's daughter and the president himself was a licence for the 'brothers' to do anything they fancied including maiming, killing and any other act they fancied.

All these thanks to the fact that our president cared less

[kamalet]

50cents said:

So Bwana Kamale where do you think this Armenium issue originated???
It is said that the kibaki's are involved. Is this a lie??

Scenario
"Your wife runs a venture with individuals whos characters are dubious. Would we assume that you are not aware of this venture" Suppose a scandal is involved in such a deal, wouldnt you be worried of its consequence??

I agree with you that the topic isnt about the Kamale, but the issues you've raised must be questioned. Its for the same reason that His excellency must tell us how excellent his judgement was on the Armenian issue.

The Armenian issue hasnt gone down well especially, among others, where they attacked the officers at the Airport. Ok, scratch that and imagine the credibility issues we face in the eyes of the international community.

How about the financial effect is has on the country and here we are talking both long term and short term. Down grading of the Airport, blacklisting of the airport, some businessess taken elsewhere and the list goes on. By the way the relationship between the armenians and the president's daughter and the president himself was a licence for the 'brothers' to do anything they fancied including maiming, killing and any other act they fancied.

All these thanks to the fact that our president cared less

Senti hamsini,

You will notice that I posted something I picked up from Mashada but never claimed that it was the truth for that one I do not know. What I will not do is speculate, but I will question some of the allegations made out here primarily on the basis that some are without any foundation.

In my view, we are blowing this little matter into huge proportions that it does not merit, and that is why I can only imagine a political angle into the matter! I do not think that a single security lapse is means that systems do not work at all!! Take for instance the incident at Heathrow Airport where some thieves managed to go into the airport apron and stole money before Securicor could retrieve it. That was a serious security lapse, but it did not mean that Heathrow was unsafe! What I am suggesting here is that we have a tendency of listening too much to junior foreign service staff as if what they say is gospel truth!