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Post by Mobimba on Feb 22, 2011 13:29:08 GMT 3
Dudes,
There are many methods of neutralizing a security threat. You could arrest or shoot to kill. Or you may choose to ‘blow the fish out of water’.
It worked in the case of Kibaki’s son in law (Margayan). Threats immediately become ineffective when made to no longer operate under the cover of darkness. You shine a bright torch on these guys and they freeze… or scatter like mice.
Raila’s security team tackled this threat as expected. They should be commended.
There was no loss of life, no diplomatic spat,… just an embarrassed KKK mafia; who still have to pay the Israeli assassins.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 22, 2011 13:30:50 GMT 3
Has any sane kenyan stopped in the middle of what he/she is doing and asked aloud "Why is Raila the heartbeat of the nation ? . One will only know of a valuable, onces it is out of sight, so the PNU brigades should dare not , i mean dare not do anything to Raila , kenya might not be any more, abuse him, ridicule him but his life leave it alone .Mark you it seems the nile is flowing backwards to the source. ....I hate to burst your bubble. The sun would still rise tomorrow morning and people will go to church if some idiot were to off Raila!
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Post by enigma on Feb 22, 2011 14:28:32 GMT 3
Dudes, There are many methods of neutralizing a security threat. You could arrest or shoot to kill. Or you may choose to ‘blow the fish out of water’. It worked in the case of Kibaki’s son in law (Margayan). Threats immediately become ineffective when made to no longer operate under the cover of darkness. You shine a bright torch on these guys and they freeze… or scatter like mice. Raila’s security team tackled this threat as expected. They should be commended. There was no loss of life, no diplomatic spat,… just an embarrassed KKK mafia; who still have to pay the Israeli assassins. YES - Commended for averting potential danger on the person of the PM. How does that play out strategically though? Where are those alleged assassins now? What could they have gathered about the PM's security detail? What do we know about what they know? Who sent them? Could this recur? Are they freelancers or is there a contract for a larger operation? Its about making a statement that will become a deterrent to any future threats of that nature. Simply moving the PM to another hotel averts the immediate danger. Another unit could have been deployed to ''neutralize'' that threat after the evacuation of the PM. By neutralize I mean a few dislocated shoulders and the next available flight to Tel Aviv. I mean diplomacy when your mercenaries are on my turf hunting me? Diplomacy is turning out to be the most misused and misunderstood tool in Kenya. Lobbying Gaddafi, Zenawi and Bashir as well as treating assassins who can dare book the same hotel as our PM with kid gloves.
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Post by phil on Feb 22, 2011 15:52:50 GMT 3
Nominated MP Millie Odhiambo reading a personal statement touching on her personal security.
Mentions the presence of the two Israeli mercenaries - whom she named - and whom she reveals where they are staying in Nairobi.
This is going to be an interesting debate because she is giving clear references to dates and reports.
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Post by mugabe on Feb 22, 2011 16:34:25 GMT 3
Phil
I saw Millie on the floor of the house. Did you notice that while she was making this allegations the minister of Internal security George Saitoti was smiling? What is so amusing about such allegations?
Anyway, let us be clear Assasinations will breed Assasinations on both sides. Look at Lebanon where political assasinations are a regular tool. For many years only one section of the political divide the pro-Syrian faction was targetted. In 2005 it changed with the targetting of Anti-Syrian leaders such as Prime Minister Rafik Hariri. Kenya has changed. Assasinations today will not merely lead to uprooting of railways but deeper consequences for the entire political class. No side of the political divide can expect to kill and not be killed in turn. I even fear that sections of the armed forces may eventually be sucked in into such a conflict.
For the sake of our nation I hope we never have these assasination business or else Nairobi may become another Beirut.
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Post by job on Feb 22, 2011 17:22:41 GMT 3
Phil,
Any further updates on this? Splash those names of the mercenaries and the name of the Hotel they stayed....
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Post by phil on Feb 22, 2011 17:30:13 GMT 3
Phil,Any further updates on this? Splash those names of the mercenaries and the name of the Hotel they stayed.... Job Raila's press conference is still on going. Unlike Kibaki's earlier on, he is taking questions from assembled journalists. I am keenly following this and I will update shortly. Meanwhile, thought Jukwaa should know, the Israeli ambassador is right now sitting in the VIP Waiting Room in Office of the Prime Minister, waiting to see Raila after the press conference. It is thought this impromtu visit is because of the presence of the two Israeli nationals in Kenya. Although guarded and non-committal, Raila has confirmed the presence of the Israelis, and that they were in Mombasa during the time he was there, and also said of the concern of members of ODM being followed everywhere. Siasa imechacha.
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Post by job on Feb 22, 2011 19:11:58 GMT 3
Phil,
Thanks. Awaiting your responses. Mainstream media has decided to give these serious issues a coverage blackout.
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Post by b6k on Feb 22, 2011 20:05:52 GMT 3
Phil,Any further updates on this? Splash those names of the mercenaries and the name of the Hotel they stayed.... Job Raila's press conference is still on going. Unlike Kibaki's earlier on, he is taking questions from assembled journalists. I am keenly following this and I will update shortly. Meanwhile, thought Jukwaa should know, the Israeli ambassador is right now sitting in the VIP Waiting Room in Office of the Prime Minister, waiting to see Raila after the press conference. It is thought this impromtu visit is because of the presence of the two Israeli nationals in Kenya. Although guarded and non-committal, Raila has confirmed the presence of the Israelis, and that they were in Mombasa during the time he was there, and also said of the concern of members of ODM being followed everywhere. Siasa imechacha. Phil, a more likely scenario of the Israeli Ambassador's presence was to assure Raila that the individuals were NOT an Israeli assassination squad. The time to have killed RAO passed in 1982. Back then it could've been accomplished constitutionally. A plot against RAO as things stand today is quite far fetched, Orengo's police statements notwithstanding. The political fallout would outweigh any gains such a move would bring to his enemies. If the Israelis were of questionable character why isn't Kajwang taking responsibility for his minions allowing them in the country in the first place? The police & NSI will also be just as divided as the rest of the country into PNU & ODM friendly pockets. Probably more of the former but is it really impossible to rally some "friendlies" to neutralize the threat? I agree a more direct approach against the "assassins" should've been taken as stated by Enigma above. Sounds to me like much ado about nothing as a security detail that does not take pre-emptive action is as useless as a sleeping night watchman. If RAO genuinely has qualms about trusting his GSU (Israeli trained no doubt) security team, he should publicly raise his concerns to the entire nation in the safety of parliament during PM's question time tomorrow. Should he still feel under threat after that, he may want to get in touch with Gadhaffi to take on his amazon security team. They're now jobless with the latest events in Libya.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Feb 22, 2011 20:08:50 GMT 3
Meanwhile, thought Jukwaa should know, the Israeli ambassador is right now sitting in the VIP Waiting Room in Office of the Prime Minister, waiting to see Raila after the press conference. It is thought this impromtu visit is because of the presence of the two Israeli nationals in Kenya.
Although guarded and non-committal, Raila has confirmed the presence of the Israelis, and that they were in Mombasa during the time he was there, and also said of the concern of members of ODM being followed everywhere.
Siasa imechacha.[/size] I also dont understand why the Hon Prime Ministers security did not check out those Israelis. Why did they not nab them? Is he the Prime Minister after all? Yes change of location is fine. Yes not using gava equipment if fine, that is how they got to the great Sudanese hero Garang. But surely, how can they just run away and not neutralize what they think is a threat? But one thing I know is that the mafiya is salivating a the thought of the Hon Prime Minister going 6ft under. Its the thing I dread most, the mafiya taking him out.
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Post by dola121945 on Feb 22, 2011 21:23:32 GMT 3
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Post by shifta on Feb 23, 2011 6:01:19 GMT 3
Something does not smell right about this PM story...he is the PM after all, why is he evading instead of ordering arrest? ---- As for Millie - something happened, she seemed spooked
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Post by phil on Feb 23, 2011 12:34:14 GMT 3
Something does not smell right about this PM story...he is the PM after all, why is he evading instead of ordering arrest? ---- As for Millie - something happened, she seemed spooked Why are you contradicting yourself? I will ask you them same thing I asked Kamale who was doubting this stroy even before Millie gave a personal statement in parliament. Who first revealed to Kenyans the presence of the Artur bros? Did government not deny it then? How long was it before Artur's were deported, rather than charged with being in Kenya illegally. Going by events in parliament, it seems obvious to all Kenyans that Saitoti is not in-charge of goings on in the Internal Security ministry. If that is the case, then who is??? If you had any idea about who is behind the Israelis then you think twice before typing your keyboard and arguing about things you do not understand. This is a very sensitive matter and what your reading here is just a tip of the iceberg.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 23, 2011 15:44:36 GMT 3
[quote author=phil board=general thread=5017 post=62386 time=1298453654[/quote]
If you had any idea about who is behind the Israelis then you think twice before typing your keyboard and arguing about things you do not understand. This is a very sensitive matter and what your reading here is just a tip of the iceberg.[/quote][/b]
Toboa Phil. Name and shame the desperate devil/s.
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Post by mzee on Feb 23, 2011 15:49:55 GMT 3
Phil, Thanks. Awaiting your responses. Mainstream media has decided to give these serious issues a coverage blackout. Just the way kenyans kicked out the Arturs, they will run these Israeli goons out of town. And if Uhuru and Ruto think that the murders they committed are not enough, kenyans shall teach them a lesson if anything happens to RAO. This time we will not wait for Ocampo.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 23, 2011 17:29:50 GMT 3
Something does not smell right about this PM story...he is the PM after all, why is he evading instead of ordering arrest? ---- As for Millie - something happened, she seemed spooked Why are you contradicting yourself? I will ask you them same thing I asked Kamale who was doubting this stroy even before Millie gave a personal statement in parliament. Who first revealed to Kenyans the presence of the Artur bros? Did government not deny it then? How long was it before Artur's were deported, rather than charged with being in Kenya illegally. Going by events in parliament, it seems obvious to all Kenyans that Saitoti is not in-charge of goings on in the Internal Security ministry. If that is the case, then who is??? If you had any idea about who is behind the Israelis then you think twice before typing your keyboard and arguing about things you do not understand. This is a very sensitive matter and what your reading here is just a tip of the iceberg. Phil Sometimes you make it sound as if you are the custodian of Kenya's secrets...!!! Orwa Ojode has said that the matter is being investigated and so far no one has reported the matter to the police complaining about the two. The most important thing he said is that it was a criminal offence to make a false claim on such a matter as security. I hope he can carry this through and get the likes of Millie charged in court for false claims if the details of the two israelis cannot be established - of if Millie and company do not produce details of the mercenaries.
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Post by toddo on Feb 23, 2011 20:55:34 GMT 3
[/quote]
Phil
Sometimes you make it sound as if you are the custodian of Kenya's secrets...!!!
Orwa Ojode has said that the matter is being investigated and so far no one has reported the matter to the police complaining about the two.
The most important thing he said is that it was a criminal offence to make a false claim on such a matter as security. I hope he can carry this through and get the likes of Millie charged in court for false claims if the details of the two israelis cannot be established - of if Millie and company do not produce details of the mercenaries.
[/quote]
The criminal code does not agree with you on your last statement. She can perhaps be charged for making a false claim after investigations but I don't think she must produce details of the alleged mercenaries. It is upon the investigators to prove that. Personally, I think she should tone it down. Report the matter to police. Get more security and adjust her daily routine if need be, make one statement and leave it there. Sometimes, too much of publicity can not be good for the bigger picture. It takes away form the real issues we were discussing which is illegal nominations by a President who convenienty forgot that we have a coalition government.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 23, 2011 21:28:40 GMT 3
Why are you contradicting yourself? I will ask you them same thing I asked Kamale who was doubting this stroy even before Millie gave a personal statement in parliament. Who first revealed to Kenyans the presence of the Artur bros? Did government not deny it then? How long was it before Artur's were deported, rather than charged with being in Kenya illegally. Going by events in parliament, it seems obvious to all Kenyans that Saitoti is not in-charge of goings on in the Internal Security ministry. If that is the case, then who is??? If you had any idea about who is behind the Israelis then you think twice before typing your keyboard and arguing about things you do not understand. This is a very sensitive matter and what your reading here is just a tip of the iceberg. Phil Sometimes you make it sound as if you are the custodian of Kenya's secrets...!!! Orwa Ojode has said that the matter is being investigated and so far no one has reported the matter to the police complaining about the two. The most important thing he said is that it was a criminal offence to make a false claim on such a matter as security. I hope he can carry this through and get the likes of Millie charged in court for false claims if the details of the two israelis cannot be established - of if Millie and company do not produce details of the mercenaries. Kamale,May be they will investigate Millie and others after they finish investigating those who threw bombs at Uhuru Park. In case they can't get the bomb throwers they should exhume the body of anyone who died from that attack and charge them with faking their deaths and also arrest all those who got injured and charge with faking injury. I mean these idiots could not find the person who walked into the government printer to change the Draft Constitution. It is like a ghost did it. They have been unable and unwilling to deal with mega drug dealers. Only a fool goes to the police expecting any sensible investigation. The Artur had to be smuggled out of the country to save Kibaki embarassment. There is a reason Kenyans simply sort out their problems. If you catch a thief you just beat them to near death. Why do you think we are taking chaps to the Hague? It is because we have no police or justice worth talking about. It is always interesting to see Raila with his own personal security outside the official security detail.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 23, 2011 21:57:09 GMT 3
Toddo,
Remember it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. If Ouko had done what Millie is doing right now he'd probably still be alive.
Millie feels threatened and i think she has every right to shout about it from the roof-tops. It doesn't matter whether we as a country are totally consumed with pressing national issues(crises) that Kibaki keeps throwing our way.
With everything going on she has every right to ask for - nay, demand tighter security. When it comes to human life joke with these people at your own peril.
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Post by b6k on Feb 23, 2011 22:47:39 GMT 3
Where are we, the twilight zone? If nominated MP Millie Odhiambo is the equivalent of Cabinet Minister Robert Ouko then ODM is in a heck of a lot more trouble than meets the eye. C'mon folks let's keep it real.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 23, 2011 23:17:59 GMT 3
Toddo, Remember it is the squeaky wheel that gets the grease. If Ouko had done what Millie is doing right now he'd probably still be alive. Millie feels threatened and i think she has every right to shout about it from the roof-tops. It doesn't matter whether we as a country are totally consumed with pressing national issues(crises) that Kibaki keeps throwing our way. With everything going on she has every right to ask for - nay, demand tighter security. When it comes to human life joke with these people at your own peril. Unfortunately, Akinyi, Millie is no Ouko and the guys that planned to off him meant what they had planne - the killed the guy. They did not warn him, threaten him or anything like that...they went for him. That is what happens to people targetted for assassination. Millie is nothing on the political pecking order of who would be killed first in ODM. If however she is high on anyone else's list, then you can be sure it is not political but ......
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Post by b6k on Feb 23, 2011 23:29:52 GMT 3
But.....? Hehehe. Millie amekula mbuzi ya nani? Toboa!
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 23, 2011 23:31:01 GMT 3
b6k,
you need to keep it real. in case you have just landed from the twilight zone, welcome to kenya where political murders have gone unpunished. millie and the late both happen to be human beings and this has nothing to do with odm or pnu or whatever. not sure what you have in mind when you attempt to draw parallels between the two.
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Post by okolowaka on Feb 23, 2011 23:35:09 GMT 3
We all know that the stakes are high for some people, the stakes may be a matter of life and death for Uhuru, Ruto, Muthaura, and Kibaki... The prospects of the Ocampo six spending the rest of their lives in jail in a cold foreign land is a matter of life and death for them, and we must remember that where there is smoke there may be fire...!
The same skepticism that some people display even here in Jukwaa on this matter is the same as was shown when the Artur brothers were in town and their cover was blown the same way...
The same Kenya Police who the Artur crooks served for as Deputy Commissioners were expected to investigate the two crooks who were definitely on a "secret" mission that the government was not too keen to tell the public.
To expect the Kenya Police to look into this matter will yield the same result; the two are investors, they are not VIPs, they are from Krypton, etc...
Millie must shout out loud from the highest mountain if she feels threatened...!
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 23, 2011 23:40:56 GMT 3
kamale and b6k,
stop the siasa and tell me more about 'high value targets' if Millie is nothing on the political pecking order of who would be killed first in ODM.
and kamale don't wish to dwell on this. we all know the late had fallen out with those that called the shots and he wasn't naive not to know what was coming. what with all the negativity and being referred to as mr 'president' not forgetting that his security was withdrawn a couple of days before that..... i could go on and on.
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