Sean Penn on The Arrogant, Misguided & The Cowards

[Onyango Oloo]

demokrasia-kenya.blogspot.com/2006/10/sean-penn-on-arrogant-misguided.html

[actaestfabula]

I agree with him on all that he said here, but I don't agree with him on his alleged wife-beating habits...which makes him lose all his credibility in front of my eyes.

[Deleted]

actaestfabula

do all men who are wife beaters, fighting their misogynist demons, lose credibility in your eyes in all other facets of their lives, their actions?

How disappointing, but certainly not surprising for me as a feminist that a brilliant man like Sean Penn would assault, batter, torment women. Like James Brown. Here is another example of a brilliant man possessed by his misogynist demons.

How many men are there like this in the world? Men who play out misogyny even as they are sound and sometimes outstanding in other areas of their lives? And please lets not reduce misogyny to wife beating because misogyny permeates all areas of our lives.

[aeichener]

Hm. That domestic assault was ... let me count ... over 17 years ago, when he was married to Madonna. He is now married to Robin Wright (they are together since 1991), and I would not know of any further incidents.

[Deleted]

okay Alex,

good thing that he stopped whooping women!

I still want to hear what people think about the other issues that I raised. This is not just about Sean Penn as an individual. But about misogyny and the ways it plays itself out. The subtle and the not so subtle ways.

what do you think?

[aeichener]

1. Public virtue and private vice can and often do co-exist. One should not detract from the other.

2. I cannot imagine being married to Madonna (whom I adore as an artist); must for sure be far worse than even a tough Meru woman *sticks out tongue*. Altercations thus quite previsible... and both did not spare the other. Sean Penn was just honest enough to accept his part of blame, and to pay for it.

3. Domestic (and its subset "marital") violence is of course not only perpetrated by men. And to blame men need not exonerate women, neither from guilt, nor from responsibility. But you very rightly point out that such violence is always sitting on a fundament of patriarchy and misogyny. That women are victims not only of individual vice, but of a system.

4. I would rather have a wife beater, who is conscious and contrite, and who actually works against his temper and his habit and his learned misogyny, than a Njoki Ndung'u roaming in freedom and unfettered, who is harming Kenyan women & children and their cause more than a thousand batterers could.

Alexander

[actaestfabula]

kathurekebaara41 said:

actaestfabula

do all men who are wife beaters, fighting their misogynist demons, lose credibility in your eyes in all other facets of their lives, their actions?

I am afraid so. I believe that any man who doesn't comprehend the simple basics of a civilized society and goes ahead abusing his natural physical strength superiority on women has nothing to teach me about the world.

As I said, I agree with him on what he says about George Walker Bush and Hollywood and all that, but I find it hard to remove from my head the fact that he is (was) a wife beater.

As a man myself, I think wife beaters and all other misogynists are not real men. Misogynists openly hate and despise women, but deep inside they fear women, probably due to a physical or psychological complex. Just like when we were in our pre-teens and we start feeling attracted to members of the opposite sex. We don't know what is going on in us and we don't know what to do about it, so many children start saying that they hate children of the opposite sex.

Alex, it's true that the same sentiment against men, misandry, also exists. Nobody said that all men are guilty, or all women are guilty. But I don't agree with you on the "responsibility" part. Furthermore, men are more prone to abuse women because of obvious reasons.

Kathurekebaara41, what is your definition of feminism? My mshikaji is a feminist and we are often having debates on the true definition of the word...