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Post by b6k on Jun 9, 2011 16:05:58 GMT 3
Job, a milisecond apart in the last posting it seems.
Apparently on DPP the vote by CIOC was 11 for, 11 against & 1 abstention. 3 members of the committee are out of the country.
Those for or against did not vote according to party line. People's wallets & purses must be heavy!
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Post by commes on Jun 9, 2011 16:18:25 GMT 3
Job, a milisecond apart in the last posting it seems. Apparently on DPP the vote by CIOC was 11 for, 11 against & 1 abstention. 3 members of the committee are out of the country. Those for or against did not vote according to party line. People's wallets & purses must be heavy! B6kInteresting. Got a link or list on how the committee voted? Wallets or otherwise, I have a feeling that this ain’t over yet because serious integrity issues were raised by the former DPP, KACC, Ghai etc.
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Post by b6k on Jun 9, 2011 16:32:34 GMT 3
Job, a milisecond apart in the last posting it seems. Apparently on DPP the vote by CIOC was 11 for, 11 against & 1 abstention. 3 members of the committee are out of the country. Those for or against did not vote according to party line. People's wallets & purses must be heavy! B6kInteresting. Got a link or list on how the committee voted? Wallets or otherwise, I have a feeling that this ain’t over yet because serious integrity issues were raised by the former DPP, KACC, Ghai etc. Commes, unfortunately there's no link as that was a quote from an Abdikadir led press conference on NTV's 4pm news bulletin. He refused to take any questions after he was through. Compared with the DPP vote, the CJ & Deputy CJ only had 1 or 2 votes against, if memory serves.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 9, 2011 16:55:41 GMT 3
My good people, Serious questions have been asked of all these nominees and all of them denied the allegations in the same fashion. As Kamale pauses above, as the process nears its end, one wonders whether the whole process of vetting fits the bill. To me it is just too much noice and nothing tangible.
There were obviously many flows in the process especially at the interview stage in cases of JSC and the DPP panel. It is obvious that we are getting nominees that politicians have decided we should have. Whether they are good for us not, only time will tell.
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Post by roughrider on Jun 9, 2011 16:56:49 GMT 3
Somebody explain this: How does a vote of 11 and 11 translate to a recommendation for approval?
If we recommend a name which is regarded as tainted by corruption and incompetence by a significant part of our society – as represented by half of the committee, then we are not doing ourselves a favor. We need a DPP whose integrity, like Caesar’s wife, is beyond reproach. We don’t want to keep wondering if the whispers are true and second-guessing his decisions.
Sadly, MP’s from his ‘backyard’ seemed to support his nomination as if this was a village chief that was being selected.
It seems that Ruto is paying back for being disengaged from the KPC Ngong land case.
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Post by roughrider on Jun 9, 2011 17:04:09 GMT 3
My good people, Serious questions have been asked of all these nominees and all of them denied the allegations in the same fashion. . Not quite, if you ask me. On the one hand some people had questions regarding the position or links to gay groups that Mutunga/ Baraza had. there was no doubt about their abilities and pro-reform credentials. It seems from the voting that these issues were adequately dispensed with. Not so Tobiko, who was facing even more serious accusations of corruption, lethargy, ineptitude, pro-establishment and anti-reformist history. The process of his nomination was also shrouded in mystery, as opposed to those of Mutunga and Baraza. The MP's eventually were split in half - a sign that there is sufficient doubt about his abilities. It will be a BIG mistake to allow this one through.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 9, 2011 17:43:31 GMT 3
Folks,
The Tobiko can of worms has just been opened. It is going to be a nightmare for him. There are going to be several cases against him and against the process by which he was approved considering that it was a tie vote at the CIOC. The importance of the CIOC decision was that it was going to be a cover for the lack of transparency in his comical nomination by the useless Atwoli group.
A DPP, with absolutely no credibility with the Kenyan public, with a litany of abuse of office cases, who is a known herling of the powers that be will not work for the country and may not work that much better for his sponsors. These guys are effective covers when they are hidden and unknown. The moment they are unmasked they are of no value. It is like having informers or undercover operatives or even mafia hit men. They operate successfully under the cover of secrecy and darkness. A naked, despised and exposed Tobiko will not serve his masters that effectively.
The second issue this whole Tobiko saga raises is the credibility of the CIOC. They had the whole Tobiko circus aired in public. Kenyans had a front seat to know who the man is. If anybody held a poll today to ask if Tobiko id fit for the job he will barely get 10% support. The issue Kenyans must ask then is; how credible are the vetters? Who will vet the vetters? What is the point of Kenyans coming up with evidence of wrong doing by nominees when the so called vetters are making a mockery of the process?
The real problem for Tobiko is that the problems raised about him were in relation to abuse of office, corruption, being a gun for hire and incompetence as the DPP for the last five years. That is very different from the frivolous ear stud business with Dr. Mutunga which Kenyans dismissed as nonsense. That is important. Also with Tobiko there is a pattern of same behaviour. That is crucial in determinung the veracity of the accusations. It is one thing to one or two accusations that could be dismissed as vendetta, but when there are several people from all sorts of backgrounds bringing the same accusations, they have to be taken very seriously. That is why I say this matter is only beginning. Tobiko is going to be hounded night and day. He will have the same experience as Ringera who came in under attack and left under attack. Tobiko's worst years are ahead of him. That is for sure and he knows it.
The big victory here that Kenyans must keep focused on is that had Kibaki not screwed up big time the Tobiko process would be the norm not the exception. The way things were planned before they were going to have those crazy panels where the PM sends Caroli Omondi and Kibaki stuffs up the deck and voila they mint names, take them to the Legal Affairs Committee to rubber stamp and kaboom the offices are filled. That bombed out when Kibaki had a fight with the PM and went to war against the nation.
It was Kibaki's madness that forced Kenyans to go to court and get good rulings, to demand action from their Speaker who made a fantastic ruling. That is how we ended up with the processes having to be competitive and public and then Ahmednasir took over and freed the timid JSC members to ask questions and challenge nominees like they have never been challenged before. That is now the norm and it has already given us some real good fruits. That is just the beginning.
If that battle never took place, today Visram would be our CJ and would be sitting at the JSC as the boss and approving his thieving friends into the Supreme Court without much ado. Githu Muigai would be our AG and Kilokumi instead of representing Ruto at the Hague would be the DPP. So we need to appreciate where we came from on this battle and where it must go.
One thing which is for sure is that nobody wants to hear about that Atwoli panel. It has completely disgraced itself. On the same vein the parliamentary vetting committees are walking on thin ice. If they don't watch their steps they will themselves soon face major credibility crisis. This battle is just starting fellas. It is going to be bloody and we are more than ready for it.
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Post by shifta on Jun 9, 2011 18:09:52 GMT 3
It is sad day for Kenya with Tobiko's name going forward, although as RR asked how does an 11-11 tie, a recommendation, why not a no? Also is there a report that goes with the recommendation? We alos need to know the voting list, who was "yes" and "no" ?
Anyhow, Adongo I like your optimism but with an election season upon us, attention will shift, I think he gets approved by our useless bribe happy parliament, I see ODM rebel and PNU backing him. My only hope is that because there has been a lot of flack he sets out to prove Kenyans wrong. Yet, if Ringera is to go by, I am not holding my breathe on that.
Still, we have come alooong way from the days when the prezzo would wake up and name whoever he feels like to any post. The process will take care of itself - after all even the mps are new to this.
Finally, Raila let the country down big time by assenting to this worthless person. After all the preaching he does about evils of corruption, what a shame. He owes the country an explanation. As for Atwoli & his group, the less said the better
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 9, 2011 18:20:07 GMT 3
I think we are making several assumptions here that are not necessarily factually correct. For instance, why would we want to blame CIOC? The committee decides matters by a vote since there was a tie, there is nothing else the committee can do but involve the whole house. In any case, the recommendations of committees are not binding to the house. The house considers the recommendations on their merit and may choose to throw the entire report out, adopt it as it is or with amendments. So to me the CIOC has done its job as required, the ball is now in the hands of the whole house. Maybe Imanyara could be approached to ask Marende to make a ruling if he so wishes.
Secondly, we have dwelt so much on Tobika’s nomination as an afterthought, probably after realizing that the CJ and DCJ positions are actually impotent. In fact if you asked me, Atwoli group did a better job than the JSC (we seem to fault them for the mere fact that they were not on TV). Atwoli panel gave Raila and Kibaki three options. In their own wisdom and I guess after due diligence, settled on Tobika. Once parliament approves the names, we shall have met the constitutional requirement. It will then be upon the Lumumbas and Ghais of this world to go to court if they so wish to question why Tobiko never agreed with them in the CKRC and Kirui to establish that the many Kibera mandazi sellers he was talking about have any connections with Tobiko.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jun 9, 2011 18:22:28 GMT 3
Anyhow, Adongo I like your optimism but with an election season upon us, attention will shift, I think he gets approved by our useless bribe happy parliament, I see ODM rebel and PNU backing him. On the contrary I think this is the perfect setup for the MPs to throw a middle finger @ the mafiya. I still think its not going to be easy for thobiko to get thro the legico, because this story of his incompetence, his obvious partisanship, his ties to the mafiya will not die. I assume there will be discussions and debate in the legico, look for smoking guns in the form of paper trails to be tabled. I can almost bet that a smoking gun or two will surface! The mafiya and other 'patrones' who used this guy to circumvent the law arent sitting pretty on this nomination. thobiko is not a shoo in just yet, and if the legico wants to assert some modicum of independence, as a bye bye present, and also set a precedence, this is the perfect opportunity to do it.
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Post by b6k on Jun 9, 2011 18:24:50 GMT 3
Televising the vetting process at the CIOC level & then expecting the public to tacitly accept a recommendation that had a 50% approval rating doesn't go down well at all. For Abdikadir to sugar coat the flawed process by saying they had to present one recommendation to parliament is hogwash. They could've just as easily said Mutunga & Baraza are ok, but we have reservations with Tobiko. An 11-11-1 vote smacks of horse trading. Are the vested interests in KE so entrenched they cannot give up this individual who is so obviously compromised? Tobiko is clearly a trojan horse for the forces of impunity, past & present, to keep evading the law. www.nation.co.ke/News/Panel+clears+Mutunga++Barasa+and+Tobiko/-/1056/1177764/-/sqd82fz/-/index.html
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 9, 2011 18:44:25 GMT 3
It is sad day for Kenya with Tobiko's name going forward, although as RR asked how does an 11-11tie, a recommendation, why not a no? Also is there a report that goes with the recommendation? We need to know the names? Anyhow, Adongo I like your optimiswm but with an election season upon us, attention will shift, I think he gets approved by our useless bribe happy parliament, I see ODM rebel and PNU backing him. Still, we have come alooong way from the days when the prezzo would wake up and name whoever he feels l like to any post. The process will take care of itself - after all even the mps are new to this. Finally, Raila let the country down big time by assenting to this worthless person. After all the preaching he does about evils of corruption, what a shame. He owes the country an explanation. As for Atwoli & his group, the less said the better shifta,We need to focus our energy on the real battles ahead and not get caught up things like an apology from Raila etc. There is really not much Raila could have done after the nominations were sent to them. He would be seen as more of a nuisance and would probably have helped Tobiko more than anything else. I think once the nominations are done the two principals will accept them and it will be up to the parliamentary vetting committees to do their work. Remember not long ago all the parliamentary vetting processes took place in secrecy in lavish hotels and names were churned out even of known crooks. That system is now dead. No more behind the scene vetting. The real battle is to kill these bullshit panels of Kibaki and Raila which gave us the Tobiko nomination done in secrecy. That is where we have to let the PM know that he has no business being involved anymore with those kinds of fraudulent procedures while telling Kenyans he is committed to the new order. If the PM's office refuses to participate in such phony panels, Kibaki will have no choice but to abandon them as well because with NARA both have to consent to the same. In my view Kenyans should vigorously petition the PM to desist forthwith from being party to creating any panels to do any sort of job ads and interviews in view of the shameful fiasco of the Atwoli group. We need credible recruitment units to do the kind of job the JSC did (with all its many limitations including grandstanding by our friend Ahmednasir) I think that is a battle that needs to be taken to the PM because we know Kibaki is a comatose conman who never cares about anything. It is the PM we must pin on the ground here. This things have to be sorted out before they reach the hands of the two principals. Once the nominees reach the hands of the principals it is too late. There is no way in hell Kibaki would have even imagined appointing Dr. Mutunga and Baraza to the CJ and DCJ positions. In fact there are many people who hoped Kibaki would reject the names. But once those names go that far, they will be accepted. The issue is to make sure no crooks get that far.
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jun 9, 2011 18:46:34 GMT 3
As I said in the Kaduna Vs mt kenya mafia thread, YES, the merchants of impunity have deep vested interests to protect, and they need a quisling for hire they have dealt with in the past like thobiko. But two hurdles remain, the first one is the legico, I predict his passage wont be easy, and number two, public opinion of him will erode his clout and continue to second guess his moves and he will be the object of disdain and derison a la ringera. Good for him, let see how he responds. He wont be able to operate anonymously in the background and his is a juicy target for impeachment.
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Post by mangai on Jun 9, 2011 18:57:06 GMT 3
Parliament, being what it is currently, will definitely confirm Tobiko. An interesting aspect that came out of Lumumba's presentations to the CIOC is that Tobiko was initially a Kanu mole who quickly aligned himself to Narc after Kanu was vanguished in 2003 leading to his appointment as DPP. He is likely to do the same to another incoming regime. Those are the survival tactics the same employed by our ever smiling AG Amos Wako. That is how he has survived all through but with nothing tangible to show for his tenure.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 9, 2011 18:59:09 GMT 3
Televising the vetting process at the CIOC level & then expecting the public to tacitly accept a recommendation that had a 50% approval rating doesn't go down well at all. For Abdikadir to sugar coat the flawed process by saying they had to present one recommendation to parliament is hogwash. They could've just as easily said Mutunga & Baraza are ok, but we have reservations with Tobiko. An 11-11-1 vote smacks of horse trading. Are the vested interests in KE so entrenched they cannot give up this individual who is so obviously compromised? Tobiko is clearly a trojan horse for the forces of impunity, past & present, to keep evading the law. www.nation.co.ke/News/Panel+clears+Mutunga++Barasa+and+Tobiko/-/1056/1177764/-/sqd82fz/-/index.htmlLet us not use inuendos and hearsays to condem this guy. Remember non of those guys who accused Tobika produced any evidence to back up their claims. In fact I remember one of the ODM voting machines (Shebesh) informing Kirui that there was nothing indicating that the people he was talking about had connections with Tobiko. If there is evidence to the contrary bring it here and we shall have a look at it. Otherwise all these things are just political noice my friend.
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Post by roughrider on Jun 9, 2011 19:20:40 GMT 3
B6K – you are so right.
They could simply have said that they had a 50:50 on Tobiko. But this is not a simple job where 50% can be acceptable. It is an important one that requires confidence and credibility from the public. Tobiko has none.
The vetting process is not a court process where things are proven beyond doubt: it is an arena for highlighting public concerns about nominees. And in Tobiko's case, those concerns were simply overwhelming.
Keriako Tobiko was in this job for years and with nothing to show for it: just shoddy prosecutions and acquittals for clearly corrupt impunity masters like William Ruto. Somehow Atwoli and his group ignored this incompetence and allowed Tobiko to be forwarded to the principals.
Then Kibaki blackmailed Raila: You agree to Tobiko or else I reject Baraza and Mutunga. Raila had to take a gamble to avoid throwing out the baby with the bathwater. Raila’s only hope was that Tobiko would be exposed by the vetting process in parliament. And exposed he was, but the MPs in that committee were spineless, except for the 11 who chose to reject incompetence and corruption.
Now somebody has to go to court to put a halt to this Tobiko nonsense.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 9, 2011 19:29:56 GMT 3
Televising the vetting process at the CIOC level & then expecting the public to tacitly accept a recommendation that had a 50% approval rating doesn't go down well at all. For Abdikadir to sugar coat the flawed process by saying they had to present one recommendation to parliament is hogwash. They could've just as easily said Mutunga & Baraza are ok, but we have reservations with Tobiko. An 11-11-1 vote smacks of horse trading. Are the vested interests in KE so entrenched they cannot give up this individual who is so obviously compromised? Tobiko is clearly a trojan horse for the forces of impunity, past & present, to keep evading the law. www.nation.co.ke/News/Panel+clears+Mutunga++Barasa+and+Tobiko/-/1056/1177764/-/sqd82fz/-/index.htmlLet us not use inuendos and hearsays to condem this guy. Remember non of those guys who accused Tobika produced any evidence to back up their claims. In fact I remember one of the ODM voting machines (Shebesh) informing Kirui that there was nothing indicating that the people he was talking about had connections with Tobiko. If there is evidence to the contrary bring it here and we shall have a look at it. Otherwise all these things are just political noice my friend. mwalimumkuuA vetting process is not a court of law. It is ridiculous to claim that Tobiko should have been convicted by the CIOC before being denied the job. I have already explained that Tobiko had two major problems. One is that the accusations against him were about abuse of office, corruption and being a gun for hire who had no shame smuggling confidential information from the CKRC to State House for Moi. We don't know what Moi paid him for that and it would be foolish to expect there is an invoice somewhere. So this are not frivolous fringe accusations. The second problem for Tobiko is that there is a pattern of the same line of abuses. Tobiko was not just accused by Kirui or Prof. Ghai. There are several accusations against him and all are of the same nature. He emerges as a greedy scumbag who sold his soul, his integrity and interlect to the highest bidder at the expense of his obligations to the Kenyan public he was supposed to be working for. It is going to be impossible for Tobiko to convince Kenyans that all these people accusing him, most of whom do not know each either are all malicious people out for his downfall. How come there were no such accusations against the others? It would be foolhardy foro Tobiko or any of his supporters, mainly people who do not give a damn about corruption in Kenya as long as they percieve this is their corrupt baby, to imagine that the Tobiko woes will just go away. They won't. As I said Tobiko is going to find it very hard to help his real clients, the corrupt and the powerful, because now Kenyans know exactly who he is. We are going to hound him day and night just like we did with Ringera and by the time we were finished with him, the poor guy can't even get shortlisted in the judicial list in jobs he could have gotten in his sleep. We are patient people and that is the worst nightmare for folks like Tobiko. He will walk into office like a skunk with and alarm clock around his neck ringing non stop. The other thing I think Kenyans have to address is that it is appalling that for some people, it doesn't matter how evil and corrupt people getting into office are as long as they think they are their thieves. A British Foreign Affairs boss talking about Egypt once said "Hosni Mubarak is a son of a b!tch but he is our son of a b!itch" to explain why the west supported the Mubarak regime with its atrocious record of abuse and corruption. That seems to be an attitude among some Kenyans. They will accept thieves as long they think those are their thieves. This is a very dangerous philosophy. As someone just said, Tobiko was Moi's little boy to mess things and once Moi was out, the little scum jumped to bed with the new lot. How do you know that he will not do the same tomorrow and be in bed with whoever comes in power who may very well not be your cup of tea. A Thief is a thief is a thief. You offer them cover and comfort today because they only stole from your neighbour and the next thing your household items are gone and the thief is nowhere to be seen. RR,You are right 50:50 vote is not an approval just as much as it is not an approval. Mohammed Abdikadir owes Kenyans an explanation as to why a 50:50 vote becomes an approval. In law it is called a hang jury and the matter starts again unless one or two people switch their votes. This whole thing is a scum and I do not understand why those who voted no are accepting the fraud. There is something they are hiding and Kenyans are going to smoke them out. It is going to be important to see what the public reactions are. What really needed to be done on this matter would have been to suspend the nomination and carry out a ful inquiry into the allegations. That is what the civil society groups asked for yesterday. But Tobiko is a football we have to kick kila saa. He asked for it and he is going to get it.
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Post by roughrider on Jun 9, 2011 19:40:03 GMT 3
Adongo;
One of those who made serious objections to Tobiko was a sitting judge!
And this is one of those whom Mr. Tobiko will want to bring cases before? All the while the judge, along with all Kenyans will be thinking 'scumbag, did he cut a deal with which side'
We don't need that type of a prosecutor.
I am thinking Tobiko needs to step aside from this job or face public protest. Hiyo tu.The same fimbo that sent Kiplagat packing might be applied to him.
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Post by job on Jun 9, 2011 20:09:27 GMT 3
Televising the vetting process at the CIOC level & then expecting the public to tacitly accept a recommendation that had a 50% approval rating doesn't go down well at all. For Abdikadir to sugar coat the flawed process by saying they had to present one recommendation to parliament is hogwash. They could've just as easily said Mutunga & Baraza are ok, but we have reservations with Tobiko. An 11-11-1 vote smacks of horse trading. Are the vested interests in KE so entrenched they cannot give up this individual who is so obviously compromised? Tobiko is clearly a trojan horse for the forces of impunity, past & present, to keep evading the law. www.nation.co.ke/News/Panel+clears+Mutunga++Barasa+and+Tobiko/-/1056/1177764/-/sqd82fz/-/index.html It's a travesty that CIOC Chairman Abdikadir can declare an 11-11 tie vote as a win for either side. Where is his moral compass? Or does this unilateralist move show a Chairman's fiat? Mr Abdikadir - we are closely watching you and your ties to the impunity barons (who conveniently placed you in that vantage position).I don't know the standing orders surrounding committee vote ties but surely this needs to be revisited. How I wish MPs would raise this matter in the House floor - and even over-rule that disastrous decision. It is clear Mutunga and Baraza's nominations have broad nationwide support - a feat that inspires confidence. Tobiko's on the other hand remains nuclear. It's as simple as this - we shall have a good Chief Justice and Deputy, but with Tobiko as DPP (gatekeeper of cases reaching the courts), there shall be no cases reaching the reformist Judges. There shall be no genuine corruption case, no land grabbing case, no drug-related case...etc so long as Keriako Tobiko is DPP, period! Kenya had better deal with this imminent Tobiko problem right now before it festers. MPs should shoot down this nomination.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 9, 2011 20:19:37 GMT 3
Adongo; One of those who made serious objections to Tobiko was a sitting judge! And this is one of those whom Mr. Tobiko will want to bring cases before? All the while the judge, along with all Kenyans will be thinking 'scumbag, did he cut a deal with which side' We don't need that type of a prosecutor. I am thinking Tobiko needs to step aside from this job or face public protest. Hiyo tu.The same fimbo that sent Kiplagat packing might be applied to him. You are damn right. This guy has no respect from Kenyans, no respect from his peers, no respect within the corridors of the judiciary and no respect even from the office messengers. The whole country must declare a total war on him. he is going to be out football for as long as he is in office, if he gets there. But I think a court injunction against his nomination should be launched. There is one already but may be something else can be done.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 9, 2011 20:25:55 GMT 3
AO and others
Parliamentary committees and the house at large may not be courts of law, but they operate on the same principle; that is why they table documents aka evidence. Otherwise we risk turning those committees and the house into gossiping arenas.
As we move forward, there still will be a full debate on each of the individuals by the entire house thus enough time for anyone to send whatever dossiers and information they have on any of the individuals as reason to drop them. Otherwise going to meetings and stating that so and so told me, oh my own assessment of the individual is blah blah cannot be a basis for disqualifying anyone. I think this is what the CIOC considered.
In the meantime here is Adbikadir's explanation of the decision in very simple and clear english:
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Post by shifta on Jun 9, 2011 20:30:21 GMT 3
First, Adongo you are right, a vetting committeee is not a court that requires proof beyond resonable doubt. I am not sure why mwalimumkuu keeps bringing that up and totally disregards among othet factors Tobiko's pathetic record. No one can objectively look at his record and point at accomplishments - where is his list of prosecutions and conviction record... zero, hakuna. -----------
polticalmaniac I sure hope you are right.
My worry is thAt some RV MPs have startEd making noise ati he is being targeted for vendetta. Essentially, it does NOT matter what he has not done or done - he has their votes. This is the part where the media would be doing investigations to disprove or confirm some of the allegations, lakini msingoje.
--------------- What we have not said also is atht PLO and KACC will now have to forward their files to this joker after he gets the nod. Yet, PLO despises him, how will they work....Niliwaambia getting rid of impunity is like trying to get "Biggie G" out of your hair
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 9, 2011 20:52:08 GMT 3
First, Adongo you are right, a vetting committeee is not a court that requires proof beyond resonable doubt. I am not sure why mwalimumkuu keeps bringing that up and totally disregards among othet factors Tobiko's pathetic record. No one can objectively look at his record and point at accomplishments - where is his list of prosecutions and conviction record... zero, hakuna. ----------- polticalmaniac I sure hope you are right. My worry is thAt some RV MPs have startEd making noise ati he is being targeted for vendetta. Essentially, it does NOT matter what he has not done or done - he has their votes. This is the part where the media would be doing investigations to disprove or confirm some of the allegations, lakini msingoje. --------------- What we have not said also is atht PLO and KACC will now have to forward their files to this joker after he gets the nod. Yet, PLO despises him, how will they work....Niliwaambia getting rid of impunity is like trying to get "Biggie G" out of your hair shifta,You are right, some people just don't get it and may be never will. In a court of law you are convicted if there is evidence that proves "beyond any reasonable doubt" that you did commit the crime you are charged with. In a vetting process like this what is required is the opposite, namely if suffcient doubt is raised about your credibility for the job, you have failed the vetting test. In any other vetting process, Tobiko would not even have gone into day two. In fact he would have bowed out himself. In Kenya you have to drag them around screaming and crying forever. Look at the fiasco with Kiplagat. He has been kicked around like a pinyatta and he is still clinging around with all his dignity gone and buried. He looks a sorry sight these days. It did not have to be that way but that is the Kenyan way. As to parliament throwing away any of the nominees, forget it. That is a den of impunity. They would approve Don Corleone to the Governor of Central Bank if that is what there bosses asked them to do. Expect nothing from there, but Tobiko is going to face same old good ass kicking. That is nothing compared to what he is going to get from the public. Don't be surprised if Kenyans start organising demos and rallies to denounce this scum of handcuffing the prosecutorial system of our country a hatchet man for big boys. This show may soon go on the road. I am sure Tobiko will faces demos infront of his office from the day he takes office. It is going to be a war of attrition and the army is there to fight it.
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Post by b6k on Jun 9, 2011 21:11:39 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu, what you refer to as noise earlier was the reason I said Sammy Kirui, in my view, was overshadowed by Murgor's testimony. Kirui's case was tenuous at best as no link could be proved between the various players from Alfred Getonga-Ms Chepkorir et al to Tobiko. They could be very well be opportunists waiting to make a quick buck out of the misery of a fallen PS.
Murgor's assessment of Tobiko, on the other hand should've weighed a lot more. Having occupied that office & been subjected to the same temptations (chances to cut deals) & challenges (threats when stepping on politically connected individuals) he had a good basis from which to form an opinion on whether Tobiko is the right person to assume the new & more powerful DPP post under the new dispensation. It really doesn't say much of Tobiko that the only positive review he got was from Wako; the epitome of inertia & incompetence...the boil on the judiciary's backside in KE. Anyone who could have pandered to the dictator Moi's whims & then thrived in the comatose conman's regime as Tobiko has done will not bring the change we need to the system.
When Elizabeth Ongoro gave Tobiko's statistics as 85% cases either thrown out or failed, all Tobiko could counter with was that he believes he has a 52% conviction rate. Well MM, 52% is still a fail just as much as his 50% approval/disapproval by the CIOC was. Why the principals overlooked Grace Oduor & Patrick Kiage is a mystery best known to them.
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Post by kamalet on Jun 9, 2011 21:23:18 GMT 3
First, Adongo you are right, a vetting committeee is not a court that requires proof beyond resonable doubt. I am not sure why mwalimumkuu keeps bringing that up and totally disregards among othet factors Tobiko's pathetic record. No one can objectively look at his record and point at accomplishments - where is his list of prosecutions and conviction record... zero, hakuna. ----------- How about using this samne argument with regard to Mutunga. We allege he is gay...he denies We allege he has no family morals....he denies He worked with Kibaki in NAK and only declined to chair NAK...was he a a hireling for Kibaki? We provide zero proof...but still made the allegations! Is this enough to condemn Mutunga? I do not think so!!! So why a different standard for Tobiko?? We elected to have a bad recruitment system....so let us suck it up and move on!
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