PALESTINE STATE: ARAB LEAGUE MAKES MOVE AT UN

[job]

www.reuters.com/article/2011/07/14/us-palestinians-israel-statehood-arabs-idUSTRE76D21020110714


The Arab League has made its move at the U.N. General Assembly backing the Palestinian Authority in calling for recognition of an independent Palestinian State.


This may mean:


(1) Countries across the globe dealing with Palestine as a fully fledged independent state and establishing diplomatic missions and Embassies.


(2) The U.N. endorsing Palestine’s internationally recognized borders (which include Gaza, West Bank and even Golan Heights).


(3) Israeli settlements within that territory (above) being in violation of international laws. Any Israeli soldiers in this territory (guarding settlements) would basically become criminal occupiers/encroachers of a foreign country.


(4) Territorial waters along Gaza belonging to Palestine, not Israel – thus rendering the Gaza blockade illegal.


(5) Setting the stage for Israel’s subjection to international sanctions akin to the sanctions on Apartheid South Africa.

[jakaswanga]

JOB,
This is a good move, a bit overdue, but a good move nevertheless of these Arab states. I hope to hear they tried to co-ordinate it with the AU for support!

But there is another 'green grass in the snake' as Gen. Mulili once put it in a schools drama book. Friday 15/07, the group of 20 countries who purport to control the future of Libya, meeting in Turkey, passed a resolution that now recognises the National Transitional Council [NTC] of Libya, that is the rebels against Khadaffi, as the sole and legitimate government. Behind the scenes the Americans were angry at the timing, thinking they had been deliberately set up by the Arabs, to show why they are so quick to recognise the Libyan NTC, but decades slow on the PLO, the Palestinian Authority, and now Palestinian state.

But I can report the recognition of the NTC is based on hard economics. There is no money to fight in Libya. Half the banks in the EU have failed their own tests on liquidity; Half the Euroland countries are doldrum cases and the euro itself is in crisis; USA Obama seeks to uppen the credit ceiling to avoid the US loosing her triple AAA ranking [and joining junkbond states like Italy and Spain]. France has ran out of money to service and repair her nuclear aircraft carrier! The dutch yesterday refused [the request by secretary general Rasmussen of NATO] to bomb in Libya. No money. Belgium still has no government past a year after elections, so acting fininace minister has no mandate to fund foreign wars. Germany is the only barrier between the euro as a credible currency and the euro as a toilet paper! And Anjela Merkel is too clever to send Germany down the gutter financing Sarkozy's testoterone games. But the bill rises per day.

So Libya has to pay for her own war. The move to recognise NTC paves the way for the unfreezing of the $30 billion Ghadaffi fortune in the US, and similar amounts around the EU, for the war effort. The NTC is not going to see a dime of it.

[politicalmaniac]

So what is the US gonna do? Veto this move? Probably.
This means that Palestine wont have a seat at the UN as a fully fledged independent country.

But I hope this move makes it more difficult for the incalcitrant arrogant fool Bibi to continue his retrogressive divisive ways of obstructing the peace process.

[mugabe]

This move will fail so lets not get excited. As a keen watcher of the region I can not see the Arab countries getting their way even with African states.
Look I am not supporting either side but the Arab move is poorly conceived. Its like somebody who is competing for a race but who decides to jump the gun because he is tired and yet he expects the result to be recognized. The simple problem in the region is the emergence of HISH (Hizbollah, Iran, Syria and Hamas). HISH not the feckless rulers in the Arab world are the real force in the region. For peace to be there in the region then Israel and HISH must compromise and that will not happen simply because HISH is united in its rejectionism policy.

In such a situation, Israel will resort to a simple strategy. It will point to the UDI for Palestine as providing the basis for a breach of International security. After all, if the motion was passed Iran and Hezbollah might decide to implement the resolution forcibly. The conflation of Israel and Apartheid South Africa is of course silly and the worst form of ahistoricism. No, again I am not defending Israeli conduct. The emergence of HISH has simply transformed the dynamics. Sanctions against Apartheid South Africa were meant to ensure justice for the majority. There was no HISH on the horizon, no group of powerful African states and actors that had openly declared that they would wipe out the Afrikaner in South Africa. Simply put, the prospects of any progressive change in the region is slim so long as HISH remains the dominant actor. The likes of Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Jordan may seek out measures but the real power brokers are in Damascus, Teharan, Beirut and Gaza. Not involving them and instead engaging in a policy driven by ahistoricism only guarantees failure.

[mugabe]

PM

Yes Bibi is to an extent obstructing the peace process but so is HISH (Hizbollah, Iran, Syria, and Hamas). Bibi is not forcing the Israelis behind his policies they are supporting it simply because of the emergence of HISH. A decade ago the prospects of peace were high. Israel had its own political doves and Bibi was sidelined. Now Bibi is popular because of the fear that has arisen among the general populace. The existance of HISH and its agenda to destroy Israel hardly makes it rational to focus on Bibi alone as the stumbling block for peace.

[politicalmaniac]

mugabe
I would not pretend to know as much about the I-P problem.

But I would say that this move at the UN keeps the issue in the front burner. Just presenting it to the UN keeps it on a moral front burner. It continues to force the US and other western powers to confront the issue head-on, by casting votes that makes them look hypocritical and makes them uncomfortable. Subjugating the rights of a people long term is untenable.

One cant suppress the legitimate human rights of a people in this modern day and era.

So I personally applaud the move.
You may consider it placing the horse before the cart, I look at it as one more attempt to draw attention to his imbroglio. And thats a very good thing.

[jakaswanga]

Mugabe wrote

^{The simple problem in the region is the emergence of HISH (Hizbollah, Iran, Syria and Hamas). HISH not the feckless rulers in the Arab world are the real force in the region. For peace to be there in the region then Israel and HISH must compromise and that will not happen simply because HISH is united in its rejectionism policy}
Mugabe,

The emergence of HISH is a later day lame excuse. The radical Iranian revolution was in 1979; Hizbollah emerged later after the Israeli invasion and occupation of Lebanon and the subsequent collapse of that state. But the Palestinian Nakba has been with us since 1948! the creation of the state of Israel and the mass deportation [ethnic cleansing was not yet a term in use then] of the Arab population. So when Shah-led pro-west Iran was in existence, plus all those pro-Nato Turkish generals, why was there no solution?
Colonial intransigence is well known, see our own decolonisation paragraphs. It takes something as decisive a the battle of Cuino Cuanavale ---[this is when the Angolan army backed by Cuban mig pilots, sorrounded the great SADF, and moved in for the kill in southern Angola, shattering the myth of Boer invincibility, and setting state for their withdrawal from Namibia and the end of apartheid]--- or the decline of a super-power sponsor to bring her to boot. So I think it is not HISH but homeboy Obama who is the rejectionist!

[jakaswanga]

Mugabe wrote
^{Sanctions against Apartheid South Africa were meant to ensure justice for the majority. There was no HISH on the horizon, no group of powerful African states and actors that had openly declared that they would wipe out the Afrikaner in South Africa}. [/sup]
Mugabe,
There was no HISH but there was a nastier bogeyman called international communism. Pik Botha, the eternal Andrei Gromyko of the boer republic, sang this mantra at every international forum... How the Russians, having gobbled up Mozambique and Angola, were now on the last phase of their cannibalistic greed, with South Africa as the crown jewel! Did not people like Reagan and Thatcher buy this crappy nonsense, calling the apartheid republic the last bullwark of freedom in the South? much like Israel is refered to as the only democracy in the middle east? while she is effectively an apartheid state...
Sanctions? remember it was the USA and UK who declared sanctions last!

NB: I acknowledge your pledge that you are not supporting Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. I only want to indicate our divergin historical interpretations. That is Jukwaa for us or not?

[mzee]

However good this move is, it will end up dead in the water. The US and UK will continue fighting on the side of Israel. As you all know, the Palestinians have a long way to go before independece is achieved. Perhaps Israel and Palestin should just merge

[politicalmaniac]

Jul 18, 2011 17:06:43 GMT 3 mzee said:

However good this move is, it will end up dead in the water. The US and UK will continue fighting on the side of Israel. As you all know, the Palestinians have a long way to go before independece is achieved. Perhaps Israel and Palestin should just merge

No way the 2 states merge. That was rejected a long time ago by the Israelis themselves, while the Palestinians similarly want total control. Its the best solution but unworkable.

But dont give up on Palestinian independence just yet.
Its what folks said about SAfrica and the beberus there. That independece was impossible.

[mugabe]

Jakaswanga

The emergence of HISH is not an 'excuse' it is a reality. You are missing my point. Yes the Iranian revolution took place in 1979. Yes, Hizbollah emerged as a result of the Israeli invasion. But the issue is that back then there was no HISH as such. Iran was not the power that it currently is. The overthrow of Saddam and the Taliban regime led to a configuration of power relations in the region a point that has often been acknowledged by the region analysts. Iran has become the most powerful actor in the region. Firstly, on account of its own conventional superiority but also on account of its influence over Hizbollah. Hizbollah in 1980 was a rag tag militia that was not even the most powerful Shia group in Lebabon. Now Hizbollah is so powerful that its power is bigger than that of the Lebanese army. This are the real powers in the region not the Arab regimes pushing for the resolution at the UN.

My point is a very simple one. A Palestinian state is likely to receive unanimous support if in the process it does not result in the destruction of a Jewish homeland. The problem is that while the Arab regimes are in general open to peace the HISH are not. Therefore jumping the gun and declaring a Palestine state might provide the perfect justification for HISH to act with disastrous consequences for the region.

Finally, as I have said earlier I have little time for the notion that Israel is Apartheid South Africa Mark II. Yes, their might be a few similarities but are talking about two separate issues. The Jews regardless of their origin have a right to a homeland of their own on the basis of their historical connection to the land something the Afrikaners could not realistically claim. Furthermore, the Arabs lost the right to preach against Racism when they defended Al Bashir to the hilt while his soldiers and the Janjaweed pillaged Darfur.

[jakaswanga]

Mugabe,
I read you too clearly to have missed your point. Now you ascribe the delayance of a palestinian state to the emergence of Hish, and the implied security threat to Israel. How about before Hish was a reality? Wasn't there another very compelling reason? I am saying colonialism is creative in the manufacturing of excuses to maintain her order. Until she is defeated hard.

--mara the africans are savages outside civilisation; mara they need permanent european guidance; mara they have to be civilised first; mara they will have indepence but not now, they are not ready yet! Meanwhile the rape of africa went on!
We have been there before.

You have no time for the NOTION that Israel is apartheid state mark 2? For a self-confessed keen watcher of the region, I state you have not read any aspect of Israeli law on eg. --where palestinians may live; what property they may own; limititations to legal adress should for instance a jewish corporation acquire their land. Then the 'pass' laws. A whole set of second-class citizen making laws.
By the way which south african university is it, that has just ended her corporation with a Jewish one, because of deliberate exclusion of palestinians? Sorry, you don't have time for all this!

[mugabe]

Jakswanga

Cool down. I am a keen watcher of the region but unlike you I am a critical thinker. I do not merely accept willy nilly the metannarative of Israel being an Apartheid state just because somebody who is biased said it. Israel has made mistakes but the fact remains that the its policies towards palestinians are similar to that of almost all its neighbours. Palestinians are second class citizens in majority Arab nations such as Egypt and Kuwait. They are barred from many activities and have no citizenship. After Desert storm, Kuwait's leaders killed a significant number of Palestinians while expelling many of them simply because Arafat supported Saddam. Are this Arab regimes who regularly bloviate about Israel's racism themselves racists? The palestinians have been treated shabily throughout the region even by their so called brothers. But I guess you never heard of that?

[jakaswanga]

^{[quote author=mugabe board=general thread=5603 post=73355 time=1311181342]
Jakswanga
Cool down. I am a keen watcher of the region but unlike you I am a critical thinker. I do not merely accept willy nilly the metannarative of Israel being an Apartheid state just because somebody who is biased said it. Israel has made mistakes but the fact remains that the its policies towards palestinians are similar to that of almost all its neighbours. Palestinians are second class citizens in majority Arab nations such as Egypt and Kuwait. They are barred from many activities and have no citizenship. After Desert storm, Kuwait's leaders killed a significant number of Palestinians while expelling many of them simply because Arafat supported Saddam. Are this Arab regimes who regularly bloviate about Israel's racism themselves racists? The palestinians have been treated shabily throughout the region even by their so called brothers. But I guess you never heard of that?}
[/quote][/b][/sup]

Mugabe,
You guessed wrong! About that in just a moment. But should this have been a touch of sarcasm meant to be a kind of repremand from an keen observer of the middle east [like you], to a layman [like me], then I can only report my bemusement at your shallow sabre-rattling. Thereby I take this opportunity to warn you that, should you again feel the need to go sarcastic or cynical on me at a later date, all your mental faculties will have to be on full throttle.

The primitivity, racism and general cultural backwardness of Arab regimes, not just against the Palestinians but against their own people too, is well documented, even at the CIA fact-book pages. But suffice is to say Edward Said, a Palestinian scholar of sorts you should know from his bone-crushing orientalism, has in numerous papers disected the myths of Arab nationalism and Palestinian brotherhood. And these works have not escaped us down here in the now waragi-infested islands of Lake Museveni [formerly Victoria].

You seem to be of the errant notion that the argument is about a supposed moral superiority of the Arabs vis-a-vis the Jewish {state}. The argument, dear boy, is about the dynamics of colonial occupation, and the creation of legal and economic infrastructure to perpetuate it. These [Israeli] laws and economic measures are not matters of opinion, but verifiable [from plenty objective sources]. Me therefore says your critical thinking seems incapable of comprehending the land clauses in Israeli law, and what they mean for Palestinians. Indeed they go no further than the rote and parrotic regurgation of the latest press releases from whichever PR-buro these days is at the beckon of Bibi the brother of Yoni!

[wanyee]

Did Israel intentionally allow this to happen?

Remembering the Nakba: The mass displacement and dispossession of Palestinians in 1948

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