RAILA ODINGA STATEMENT, NOV. 11

[miguna]

Statement by Raila Odinga MP for Langata Member, ODM-Kenya
Saturday, November 11, 2006

MY attention has been drawn to several comments concerning my recent discourse with various groups of foreigners and Kenyans in Canada, the USA and the United Kingdom – to the effect that I have been "washing Kenya's dirty linen in public". For one thing, it would not be necessary for anyone to do this in order for the world to know what is happening in our country. The evidence is there for all to see, and various reports by respected international bodies continue to expose the government's lie that our nation is doing well.

But more importantly, washing dirty linen was not the activity I was engaged in. During my tour, I had the opportunity to talk to many people, including Kenyans, in the North American diaspora – in Toronto, Minneapolis, Atlanta, Houston, Washington DC and New Jersey – and in the UK, in Manchester and London. The presentations I made to them were basically informative.

What the government does not seem to realise is that Kenyans living outside this country are part and parcel of our nation. They therefore deserve to be informed about important events taking place back home.

One thing I talked to them about was the Kenyan economy, for which the government has been flaunting growth figures that are meaningless to anyone except the bureaucrats who dreamed them up. As I have said before, the growth rate being publicised by the government has been inflated by the use of a different method of accounting from the one previously employed. When Kisumu Rural MP Professor Peter Anyang' Nyong'o was minister for economic planning, he decided to bring it in line with the current universal practice by expanding the statistical base. But it changed the parameters of the statistics by at least two per cent, and it is this two per cent that I have said skews the government's figures and gives a dishonest comparison with previous figures.

As Lord Courtney said in New York State in August 1895, "After all, facts are facts" and although there are "lies, damned lies and statistics, still there are some easy figures the simplest must understand, and the astutest cannot wriggle out of."

The economic growth the government is flaunting, if indeed there is any, is not being felt by most people in our society. There is need to highlight, as I have been doing, the suffering of the ordinary person, and the fact that the cost of basic necessities, including food, paraffin, transport and rent, have all risen, while people's incomes have not increased, and their purchasing power has therefore fallen. This is an issue that should be of prime concern to any responsible government.

The fact is that this much-touted economic growth only translates into improved living conditions for a small clique of people at the top. It is an issue that should worry any right-thinking Kenyan.

My view is that, for this country to be able to deliver people from poverty, its economy must grow at a much faster rate, and not just reflect statistical manipulation.

One thing preventing this growth is corruption. Shocking figures released by Transparency International confirm that Kenya remains one of the most corrupt countries in the world. Eighty-five billion shillings a year that could be used to uplift the poor out of their wretched misery is being lost through this national disgrace. All the promises made by this government in 2002 about zero-tolerance of corruption have been betrayed.

And the extreme poverty and hardship being suffered by millions in our country – people the government has no shame in pretending do not exist when it touts its fancy statistics – is nowhere more evident than in the pictures we have seen coming out of Mathare Valley in the past two weeks. As people have fled for their lives from the unchecked murderous villains who control the Valley's social fabric, we have noted the few ragged belongings they carry as they pick their way desperately through mud and water and garbage. We have read that children have not been able to complete their exams. We have seen pictures of infants separated from their mothers. What about pregnant women? What about the sick, the injured, the old, the lame, the infirm? How do they flee? How can any sane government look at the Mathare Valley pictures published in the press and have the nerve to continue spouting about its own economic success?

The press, which is doing a wonderful job, has exposed for us the daily dread and terror that the people of Mathare Valley face, unable even to go to the toilet without paying a tax to the scum who hold them to ransom.

Yesterday, we visited Mathare Valley. We saw children and women lying outside in the cold and wet, covered in mosquito bites – a most pathetic sight to behold. They are suffering, yet no government official has dared to visit them. Many of these refugees, who have lost or fled their homes, are crowded into four churches. Others are camped outside the Eastleigh air base. In such a situation, there is real danger of an epidemic of disease, and I urge the government and appeal to the humanitarian agencies to come to the aid of these suffering people. They need urgent attention and help in the forms of food, bedding, medical supplies and, most of all, assistance to reconstruct their broken homes.

I also listened to some of their stories and heard about the shocking privations they must endure on a daily basis. Do the people living in Mathare Valley have any basic human rights? It is a travesty of compassion and responsibility to allow this situation to continue, and it is no wonder that the UN Human Development Index placed Kenya far down among the world's lowest achievers, lower even than such troubled countries as Zimbabwe and Sudan.

Government lack of responsibility can be seen nowhere more clearly than in the horrors that continue to be visited on the people of Mathare Valley by members of the banned Mungiki sect. How can a banned organisation operate with impunity in the heart of a capital city, when the authorities have all the means at their disposal to prevent this? It is a question that leads only to one obvious conclusion: what is being done to the people of Mathare Valley, what is being done to the people of Kuresoi, of Molo, Pokot, Turkana, Samburu, Meru, Nyeri and other parts of the country, is being done with the complicity of the government. This is confirmed by the fact that members of the illegal organisation that terrorises the residents of Mathare Valley – not content with hacking people to death with pangas outside their front doors and burning their homes – were able to run riot in Nairobi streets and proclaim to the world at large their threats of widespread violence and destabilisation. They obtained this freedom through a licence granted by the authorities, reportedly on the order of some senior politician. That is what this government has come to. It is a national and international shame and disgrace.

I should now like to turn my attention to the constitutional review process. On this issue, the government is doing nothing more than engaging in filibustering – employing delaying tactics. It is now quite clear that the government is just playing games, and has no interest at all in meaningful changes. There was supposed to be a November package on minimum reforms by the Inter-Parties Consultative Forum on Constitutional Review, headed by Dalmas Otieno and Charity Ngilu. Are they going to present this package?

Key issues that were supposed to be addressed included the independence of the electoral commission, affirmative action, the enfranchisement of all eligible voters, the requirement that the president be elected with at least 50 per cent of the vote, the popular election of chairmen of civic authorities and provision for the central funding of political parties. These remain key issues.

It is also totally impractical for the government to suggest that a referendum on a new Constitution be held in September next year, to be followed by a general election in December. In other countries, votes on constitutional issues have been cast alongside votes in a general election. There is no reason why we should not do this here. There are minimal logistical problems involved and we must now begin seriously considering this as the only viable option.

In the meantime, we look forward to the early introduction of the minimum reforms that are vital to ensuring that both the proposed referendum and next year's general election will be conducted in a manner that meets the definition 'free and fair'.

I should now like to inform you that we have received reliable information about a meeting that was held on November 5 in the Kilimani area of Nairobi. Present were senior people and a person who resembled one of the mercenaries supposedly expelled from this country – eight people in all. The purpose of the meeting was to discuss elimination of some political leaders. I would like, through the press, to ask the authorities to confirm or deny that such a meeting took place.

Finally, on this weekend, when people all over the western world will mark Armistice Day, November 11, 1918, when World War I ended, and will honour those who have fallen in all the wars since, I should like us to remember not only those Kenyans who fell in those foreign fields, fighting those foreign wars, but also those who fought for our independence, as well as those who have died for their ideals since Independence, and more recently, those who have died in Mathare Valley, Laikipia, Kuresoi, Molo and in other parts of the country where scenes of violence have been played out. They have paid the ultimate price here at home, in a war that continues to this day – the war for the second liberation of Kenya.


"They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun, and in the morning,
We will remember them."



Raila Odinga MP

[politicalmaniac]

Any sane person without tribal blinkers on would nod in agreement with the statement above. If this guy R is so unelectable he sure is scaring the NARCKies and Baknistas.

[kamalet]

Dear Mr. Raila,

It is all well to shed tears (crocodile if you ask me!) for the squalor in Mathare....but have you considered the situation that affects YOUR OWN constituents in the slums of Kibera Laini Saba and all the way to Katuikira? The people of Kibera ELECTED you to lift them out of their squalor by addressing their poor infrastructure through proper use of CDF funds. If Maina Kamanda has failed to do so for his Mathare constituents, then he will kiss that seat goodbye! As for you, be ware the ghost of Mungiki as it appears in Kibera courtesy of Ndura Waruinge - do take that man seriously!

[adongo12345]

Very powerful statement. Very direct and to the point. Sometimes I think the media does a lot of disservice to Raila. I have read bits and pieces of this statement scattered as if they are statements made here and there. Little did I know that Raila actually issued a very comprehensive statement touching on the issues.

I am going to ignore cynical and desperate statements like that of Kamale above telling Raila "to be ware of the ghost of Mungiki as it appears in Kibera courtesy of Ndura Waruinge"

The whole country must not just be ware of the ghost of Mungiki and their funders, we must strive to eliminate it. Any group of people that goes around butchering citizens in their homes and wrecking the livelihood and lives of innocent and poor Kenyans is an enemy of the country not just an enemy of Raila. Trying to turn this into a confrontation between Raila and the self confessed Mungiki supremo is irresponsible and an insult to the Kenyans whose lives have been destroyed by Mungiki and other gangs.

There has been all brouhaha when Raila talked about plots to kill political leaders in the country. In this statement Raila talks about a meeting of eight people including those involved with the Artur brothers. That is pretty serious. Obviously the man knows what he is talking about. And the same people who condemned him when he exposed the Artur brothers as the once behind the terroristic attack at the Standard are the same voices now calling for Raila's arrest. Raila was proved right then, and chances are he will be proved right now.

There is something very insidious when Michuki claims he has been attacked by people trying to kill him, then the police boss comes out and first denies such an attack took place, then changes his mind says the attack took place and less than a week later gangs are rampaging all over the country. Someone is playing dangerous games with the security of the country just like they did during the Artur saga. We are going to catch them again, but the damage they are doing is irreparable.

Also like my friend Maina Kiai said, someone is playing with fire and if this thing gets out of control it could take a while to calm things down and by then we may not be able to recognize the country. Tribal clashes are lethal and those trying to bring it to the heart of the nation, Nairobi City, may start a fire they will not be able to put off. They should be told to stop playing with the lives of Kenyans.

Then we have the annoying rubbish about Raila ruining the name of Kenya when he criticizes the corruption and drag dealings within the high echelons of the Kibaki regime. As I have said before, Kibaki is not Kenya. The Kibaki regime is not synonymous with the Republic of Kenya. Who doesn't know the level of corruption in Kenya, particularly at State House and the Office of the President. Why is John Githongo in exile in the U.K fearing for his life in the year 2006? Who is threatening his life? Raila? What has Kibaki done to at least address the very public concerns raised by a person he personally gave a job to do and whose life is being threatened for doing the job the president asked him to do?

I was appalled to learn over the weekend that even today Amos Ringera refused to release to the Attorney General, Amos Wako statements made by John Githongo regarding the Anglo thieves.

www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=1&newsid=85378

Ringera and his folks claimed they cannot give the statements to the AG because Mr. Githongo did not sign them. Martha Karua also made the same statement going as far as asking Githongo to come and sign the statements. Turns out these are malicious lies. Githongo's lawyer Prof. Makau Mutua confirmed to the media that the statements given to Ringera were signed. Prof. Mutua's conclusion is that the reason they are hiding the Githongo statements is to protect the big shots. This is the same Ringera who recorded a statement from Githongo and later claimed the recording did not work!!!.

How can people like Karua and Kibaki claim someone is ruining the name of Kenya when their very daily actions tells the whole world they are either working with high level criminals or are protecting them. And for what reason?

And when the world hears and reads about illegal gangs wreaking havoc in the horrible slums and elsewhere in the country cutting people including children to pieces and chasing whole communities from their homes as the government looks helpless if not direct accomplishes to the mayhem, what does that say about Kenya?

It is obvious to Kenyans that it is the actions and inactions of our government that is actually not just ruining the name of our country, but destroying the lives of many Kenyans. Blaming Raila for everything wrong with the Kibaki regime will not solve anything. Kibaki and his cohorts have tried that method for four years and the results have been disastrous for them. They tried it when they tried to con Kenyans with a bogus Katiba and Kenyans told them NO. They blamed Raila and the ODM for that. Kenyans scoffed at their nonsense. Then the Arturs. Now we know the truth and Kibaki is still sleeping on the findings of his bogus Kiruki Commission. Are we going to have a nother Commission on Mathare or may be this time we need a Commission to Invesigate Raila's utterances at home and abroad. Please. When you are in a hole stop digging. Don't keep digging and looking for excuses.

As Kibaki continues to fumble and bumble from crisis to crisis it is our duty to let them know we will not relent in our fight for a better Kenya for all. That is a patriotic obligation some of us have adhered to for decades. There is no reason to imagine we will stop now. We wont.

Adongo.

[aeichener]

Adongo, just *how* naive are you? It's breathtaking - and distressiing - how even educated, critical, progressive Kenyans can throw all reason and judgement out of the window when it just suits their pet prejudices... Sad.

I would not even believe that self-obsessed, vain and equally unscrupulous crook Makau Mutua (same calibre as Paul Muite) if he stated that Kenya lies in Africa, unless I had first checked with an atlas. And so should you.

Alexander

[adongo12345]

Alexander

Makau Mutua's statement regarding Githongo's dealings with Ringera are self-explanatory. You don't have to be a progressive, educated yada yada to accept what he says. I am not a fan of Prof. Mutua and I know the feeling is mutual, but it would be silly of me to reject what he says just because I don't like him. Mutua used to love Kibaki and Murungi and actually hates people like Raila with a passion but his position on Ringera's cover up with regard to Githongo evidence is very credible to me.

Do you have any evidence to the contrary? Don't believe Mutua when he tells you Kenya lies in Africa, verify the information and if indeed Kenya lies in Africa it would be insane for you not to believe it just because Mutua said so.

John Githongo, Mutua's client has confirmed on several occasions the same sentiments expressed by Mutua that he signed not just one set of statements but several including one he sent to President Kibaki himself. This information is in the public domain. It would be foolish of me to dismiss them just because I don't like the source.


At any rate the story is not about Mutua or Githongo.

Adongo

[kamalet]

Adongo,

Yours is a misplaced diatribe, and you did not need to regurgitate what you constantly repeat in these forums.

You can call me cynical, but all I asked the man you seem to worship, and one who does or sees no wrong was to comment onthe squalor of his OWN constituents before lamenting the condition of others!

As for Ndura Waruinge of Mungiki fame, he will be a thorn in Raila's black butt as the conditions in Mathare fit the profile of the characters Ndura works very well with.

Forget about Kibaki (who incidentally Raila did not mention by name in his entire statement!) and his incompetence - Kenyans will not need you to preach to them if they decide to send him back to Othaya. You worry yourself too much about who is in power today and completely ignore the set of monkeys conspiring to take up the same leadership through ODM. You will have a bit of a struggle explaining yourself when they disappoint you on ascending to power - if they already have not started doing so. Perhaps their corruption either real or perceived will be seen against the backdrop of the allegations against Raila's wife in the League of Women Voters' NGO where corruption has led to her being kicked out by her co-governors.

Adongo, these politicians are not our problem today and you should stop sucking up to them! Like a river they are here today and gone tomorrow, but Kenya will be there forever. Why dont you address yourself to the problems afflicting your country men - like the squalor in Kibera or the inequities of wealth amongst Kenyans?

[aeichener]

Well, yes, that would also be my apprehension, Kamalet: a development in the sense of "new flock, but same monkeys".

As I am wont to say, Kenya needs service, not leadership. Of course, it is not irrelevant whether corrupt crooks and egomaniacs hold the reins in their hands, but I have my own reserves about the idea to re-cast the widely disparate ODM movement into a political "party". It is not a real party in my perception, just a very loosely cohesive association of people who feel that it should be their time to eat now. *Sigh*

Alexander

[adongo12345]

Kamale

What is eating you? Why get so emotional and ugly? It is embarrassing. How does Raila's "black butt" look like? You amuse me.

Don't worry about Raila, he is a big boy he can take care of himself. Poverty is all over the country, not just in Kibera. That 5.8% economic growth doesn't seem to be trickling down too good.

Raila and ODM have every right to contest for the leadership of the country and I doubt they need your support.

Calling people monkeys and other silly things says more about you than them. Chill out man, it is going to be a long ride.

How are those Artur brothers doing?

Poa kijana.

Adongo.

[job]

Folks,

I can't believe the level and intensity of tribalism under this Kibaki regime where sane and educated people come out to cheer on murderers called Mungiki.....simply because they are their fellow tribesmen. Others are evading & ignoring the message in this thread's first article, instead hurling epithets at the messenger,....the supposed monkey.

Well the message will be redirected to the beautiful humans in government and some arrogant supporters who know best how to characterize their fellow countrymen, baptising them..... black-butts or monkeys.

Trying to worshipping or brag about prospects of a self confessed Mungiki supremo and serial murderer, a Ndura Waruinge is simply sickening. We need to take a deep breath and re-evaluate our inner conscience.

What about the level of maturity previously exhibited at Jukwaa. Childish epithets and slurs depicting tribal intolerance should be checked by Jukwaa's moderator,.....this is not a Mungiki forum. If that's not possible then let those individuals whose butts are white resist the temptation of analyzing the butts of black Africans. I don't know what their interest is in this particular anatomy but for heavens sake,........Keep off other fellows' butts.

Well meaning Kenyans are obviously troubled at the murders and violence meted against innocent Mathare residents many of whom are children and women. The victims belong to all ethnic groups of Kenya including kinsmen and women of the very same Mungiki.

What is happening in Mathare had very recently occured in Kibera to a lesser scale. Any right thinking Kenyan, Raila included has a right to demand answers from the government. Lives are being lost and it would be terrible if all kept quiet.

Mungiki is not creating news for the first time in Kenya. Mungiki is a banned terrorist organization according to the classification of; The Kenya Police, Britain's external intelligence MI-6, and the CIA.

But haven't we recently seen the impunity and arrogance they've certainly resurrected with? Talk of protection by those in power (akina Kimendeero), reminiscent of the Artur mercenary brothers,.....wacha tu.
But this is a grave security concern that can burn our nation completely so long as Kibaki's government continues to play with fire.

Some previous troubling headlines created by Mungiki in the past include the following (see below) that can be found at;

www.rickross.com/groups/mungiki.html

Headline; News created by Mungiki

Kenyans flee deadly gang battle
Mungiki shoot, injure police officers
Kenya orders crackdown on outlawed sect
Mungiki gang spreads terror
Mungiki hit matatu trade
Mungiki Sect Members Hack Girl, 13, to Death
Mungiki Sect Suspects Get Life Terms for Murder
Mungiki Defector Beheaded
Police Arrest Mungiki Sect Leader Ndura Waruinge
Mungiki Boss On Murder Charge
'Mungiki's' Revenge
Mungiki Members Face Murder Charge
How Mungiki trains killers
Mungiki leaders charged
Six 'Mungiki' defectors arrested
Stripping Women Barbaric
Mungiki Attack Traders At Wakulima Market
Return of Mungiki gangs of terror
Ex-MP to stand murder trial
16 Alleged 'Mungiki' Members Arrested
Govt Has Wiped Out Mungiki
Kenyan sect leader Waruinge freed
700 'Mungiki' sect members surrender
Profile: Kenya's secretive Mungiki sect
Five Killed in Mungiki Mayhem
53 Mungiki Suspects Arrested Over Nairobi Terror
Five Mungiki Men Nabbed in Molo As 50 Denied Bond
68 Face Court On Mungiki Link Charges
Banned Sect Leader's Kin Arrested in Raid
Outlawed sect's legacy of murder and mayhem
42 Mungiki Members Charged With Attempted Murder
Police Arrest Mungiki Members in Kirinyaga
Three Killed in Orgy of Mungiki Violence
Mungiki Sect Members Kill Two in City
Mungiki's Long History of Clashes With the Law
30 Naked Mungiki Men Arrested in City Swoop
Church warns state over Mungiki sect
Kenya: Police clash with Mungiki sect followers near Nairobi
Police Tell Mungiki: We're Ready for You
Man Killed As Mungiki Clash
Get Circumcised, Mungiki Sect Tells Women
Kenyan police detain 200 sect followers
Government Bans Mungiki Sect, Private Armies
Kenya police detain sect leader after killings
23 Butchered By Mungiki Followers in a Night of Terror
Religious sect rampages in Kenya
100 Sect Suspects Held in City Fracas
Mungiki Boss Freed
15 Mungiki members arrested
Mungiki Boss Charged in Machakos
Police Raid Sect Leader's Home
Top Mungiki Man Arrested
Kenya police arrest sect members
Top Mungiki Man Arrested
Kenyan crackdown on religious sect

Scanning through the headlines gives one a rough insight and profile about mungiki and the so called Ndura Waruinge who has announced his intention to run for political office in Langata,...yes ,......intention to get into the government's legislative branch as a lawmaker and leader[/b].[/i]

The prospects of Mungiki penetrating into government corridors and making policy for us could be a travesty of magnanimous proportions.

Now, all responsible Kenyans have a right to voice their concerns about Mungiki and express any criticism of the government's lack of will to stamp out the terrorist group.

One such Kenyan, Raila Odinga, had this to say about Mungiki ....quoted below;

"Government lack of responsibility can be seen nowhere more clearly than in the horrors that continue to be visited on the people of Mathare Valley by members of the banned Mungiki sect.

How can a banned organisation operate with impunity in the heart of a capital city, when the authorities have all the means at their disposal to prevent this? It is a question that leads only to one obvious conclusion: what is being done to the people of Mathare Valley, what is being done to the people of Kuresoi, of Molo, Pokot, Turkana, Samburu, Meru, Nyeri and other parts of the country, is being done with the complicity of the government.

This is confirmed by the fact that members of the illegal organisation that terrorises the residents of Mathare Valley – not content with hacking people to death with pangas outside their front doors and burning their homes – were able to run riot in Nairobi streets and proclaim to the world at large their threats of widespread violence and destabilisation. They obtained this freedom through a licence granted by the authorities, reportedly on the order of some senior politician.

That is what this government has come to. It is a national and international shame and disgrace".

Ati because of that statement, Kamale hits the rooftop criticizing the messenger but ignoring his message. He adds his fierce support for the self confessed Mungiki criminal Ndura Waruinge whom he believes can be excellent leadership material for Lanagata and Kenya. Ngai Faaaafa!!!!

Any Tom Dick and Harry can see the government's hand in this. Exporting Mungiki into Kibera, a terrain that has fiercely resisted Mungiki's extortionist & exploitative ways in the past. The government is trying to forment trouble and bloodshed in Kibera. Trying to stroke ethnic violence and mass murders of innocent Kenyans just for mere polical expediency. Desperately trying to paint Raila as violent so as to let Narc looters continue staying in power and proceed with the plunder, corruption, tribalism and unfinished Anglo-Fleecing business. Kenyans may not be that foolish.

I sincerely believe that one day, people will be made to account for these illegal and treasonable acts. Kibaki's government will definitely answer in one way or another for even toying with murderous ideas & such related sins,...... one day.

In Kuresoi, it is obvious that supporters of ODM are systematically being suppressed through violence and fear peddling. One local MP, Moses Cheboi has complained on numerous occassions that the provincal administration is colluding with pro-government politicians to violently suppress his kinsmen. We have seen the government's reluctance to end the violence. Such complicity tells a very clear political tale,.....That's no rocket science.

As for someone asking a local MP about the squalor of his constituents,.....who should this question be directed to? The person & team running the nation's economy or a lawmaker representing the largely poor constituency? This is where keen observation for reasoning comes into play. I wonder if some people understand the distinction between the three arms of government; the legislature-makes laws ( not distributing resources & development); the executive - in charge of enforcing laws & distributing resources; the judiciary-interprets laws & arbitrates disputes.

Trying to blame a local MP for lack of Roads, schools, or health facilities (even in the era of CDF's) is a tired & old Kenyatta regime propaganda that's similar to blaming a judge for the same. Unless the constitution is changed bringing forth devolution and a mechanism for fair and equitable distribution of resources, our current constitution still leaves the executive President incharge of development & resource distribution. You should better know that if by now you haven't.

With our current constitution that Kibaki doesn't want altered, the executive is incharge of all such roles. Knowing kibaki well, do you imagine he gives a heck whether Kibera or Mathare has water, health centers or not? The fella only gives a hoot at how much water and road allocations go to Othaya; check the budgetary allocations 2003/4, 2004/5. 2005/6 & 2006/7 to confirm this.

Such questions must be directed to the right place Kamale,....I believe you can surely understand the workings of governement. So go ahead and ask Kibaki about the plight of Kibera, Mathare, Kariobangi residents and what policies he's enforcing to help them.

Cosmopolitan constituencies comprising poor Kenyans is where the impact of the Kibakinomics is felt greatest. Go tell the story of the supposedly "booming" economy to Kibera or Mathare residents! They surely know who is incharge, running the economy. They know how much they paid for Unga, Sugar and Paraffin 4 years ago under Moi and what they are paying today under Kibaki's booming JI-ENJOY-NOMICS.

unedited .

Job

[KOLONEL BRISK]

Well said well put. It requires a miracle for an MP to finance development projects in his constituency. The CDF programme could only achieve piecemeal changes. After years of neglect we need a goverment that is straight up. The best our MPs could do is bring the plight of their contituency to the goverments attention. Raila spoke on this, tried to address past issues of Kibera, rent and other problems. I am still to hear the MP elect for Mathare, aske the govt to arrest the situation on the ground

[dubois]

Job & Adongo,

Stop going hysterical everytime Odinga is criticized. Job even suggests that the moderator should censor anti-Odinga sentiments. Kamale's 'monkey' and 'black butt' comments, to any rational observer, were not meant to be insulting or demeaning to Raila or Luos. But you guys are too paranoid about an anti-luo/Raila crusade. I think the paranoia is just an excuse to consolidate support for your tribesman. Look at Nyongo and other pseudo intellectuals who keep crying wolf about far fetched conspiracies. The truth is, you are embarrassed to openly support your corrupt tribesman and will cling to any threat, real or imagined, against Raila or the Luos to justify your support. Then you shamefully have the guts to accuse others of tribalism. Shame on yous!

[job]

Dubois,

What happened to addressing the subject matter. I didn't read anything about Mungiki in your response.
Well, I don't know you but your statements give me a rough idea about you and what you think about Mungiki,.......what your definition of hysteria is,.......what you think about murder of innocent Kenyans,...what you think about those who censure Kibaki's government for failure to protect citizens and what you think of other Kenyans generally.

Good luck in your endeavours. If you think anyone is paranoid or hysterical about political punditry in Kenya,.....then welcome to the world that seems to have flipped around your head.

I censured Moi's regime just as I'm rebuking this inept, nepotistic, corrupt and tribalistic Kibaki regime of looters, Anglo-Fleecers, and Mercenary-lovers,...do you have any problem with that? Keep entertaining the ficks in your imagination which tell you about hysterical people criticizing an otherwise fantastic Kibaki regime because it will make us stop criticizing that tribal hero of yours. You better start getting used to appreciating criticism and opposition.

You are not embarrassed to openly support your otherwise clean and wonderful president Kibaki as you have done so gently in your response above,.....unlike others who are REALLY embarrassed to support their own democratic choice? Keep on controlling the democratic monopoly sir. Watch this space though.

And oops,..you need not be ashamed of yourself since you don't condone tribalism,...you are just the marshall who checks shameless tribalists in this forum. Keep up with the good job.

You need not utter even one word relevant to the subject matter,..or about this thread and the murderous Mungiki mayhem....of course NOT. What's so important to you? ...That your hero Saint Kibaki is exhalted at all cost because he is the best thing that ever happened to Kenya.

Thanks for your wisdom Sir. May you now say even one word about Mungiki since you are not a tribalist who ignores a log in their eye while addressing specks in other peoples eyes. I'll patiently wait for your wonderful words or lack thereof.

unedited.
Job

[kamalet]

What disappoints me when I read some of the comments in this forum is the level of hypocricy displayed.

I am certain that Onyango Oloo did not start this forum as an anti-Kibaki forum or a pro-anyone forum. His good intentions must have been to provide a forum where we can all disagree but still respect people's views.

I therefore find it retrogressive to be asked to feel embarrassed for supporting Kibaki as Job would like us:

You are not embarrassed to openly support your otherwise clean and wonderful president Kibaki as you have done so gently in your response above,.....

...and am not supporting what Dubois says about blind support - despite agreeing with him on the response Job and Adongo made in defence of Raila!

I agree with many things Kibaki has done for this country, but it is irresponsible to imagine that I agree with him purely on account of sharing a mother tongue. I honestly hope that the support Job and Adongo give Raila is not premised on them being Luos like Raila, but on more important issues!

So please let me suppport who or what I wish to support without looking at my mother tongue to imagine that is what drives my thought process!

As Adongo said, Raila is a big boy and can defend himself - hence my relentless attack on his otherwise record political deceit and manipulation of a community.

[dubois]

Job,

Do not be naive and do not play us for fools!! A few months ago one of the ODM supremo (Ntimama) sensationally claimed that Kikuyus own all the land and further made inflammatory comments. Judging from history,wouldn't you call such statements a threat to the peace only equal to the Mungiki thugs. Then we have these bunch of ODM thugs talking about 'isolation' 'the enemy' 'they will never support candidates from other tribes' etcetera, etcetera. Yet, I have not seen anyone of you ('human rights activists') raise a finger. Why are you suddenly so enraged to discover that mungiki are politically backed? is it because they are Kikuyu?

Our politicians, irrespective of political party, are responsible for tribal animosity and the clashes that are unleashed from time to time. So please quit the hypocrisy and the crocodile tears. This problem will only be solved if we become impartial and declare a zero tolerance on tribal warlords. So, before you point a finger on mungiki and its benefactors take a hard look at your hero and his goons.

[job]

To Dubois and kamalet,

You are both entitled to your opinions and you can support Mungiki or Kibaki if you so wish. I am entitled to mine too and I will criticize their murderous activities.

Let me quote you DUBOIS,

"Why are you suddenly so enraged to discover that mungiki are politically backed? is it because they are Kikuyu? "

To answer your simple question, ............I am suddenly enraged to discover that the politically backed Mungiki has KILLED INNOCENT KENYAN LIVES INCLUDING THOSE OF CHILDREN AND WOMEN. I don't care what tribe they are but a profile of their Headline grabbing activities which I will repost (below) tells me all I need to know about them.

If you don't get it , just ignore the message.

It is not the first time I am criticizing the sloth at State House called Kibaki for incompetence, corruption, tribalism or doing nothing to end insecurity. If that irks you that's up to you,...... you better take a hard look at my postings again.

Whether it's about corruption, tribalism, Anglo-Fleecing, Money laundering, hire of the Artur Mercenaries, or now murder of innocent Kenyans by Mungiki....I am entitled to give my own opinions which will NEVER be influenced by any of you.

I direct all my criticism at the inept and corrupt ethnic chauvinist sitting at State House because I know exactly where the buck stops. If he happens to hail from the same slopes as you do, that's a coincidence. But let me tell you that I previously criticized Moi for some terrible things he did and when I did that, I believe it was never a problem with any of you two. Was it because he hailed from some different locale? You are the last person(s) that would wish to talk about hypocrisy.

Therefore don't feel any pain if I criticize your homeboy. He happens to be Kenya's President incharge of the nations security apparatus. The same apparatus that condones Mungiki and tolerates their murderous activities. I will keep criticizing him so long as he's in charge...do you have a problem with that?

If you believe Kibaki critics simply do so because of his tribe, again that's up to you. You better realize that not all Kenyans view him from the same prism as you do. Don't ever imagine that you can gag anyone's opinions by labelling them anti-Kikuyu or whatever. Many Kenyans are brighter than having their minds spun away from the real issues affecting them,...like murder of innocent ones by Mungiki terrorists,...and making the critics the problem.

You don't need to be a a rocket scientist to understand that killing innocent lives at Mathare by Mungiki deserves condemnation. In the same breath, you don't need to be a genius to realize that the content of the message is more important than the messenger. Thus what both of you have spent their energies doing is attacking critics of Kibaki AND NOT THE MUNGIKI PROBLEM. Does that indicate something about you? The truth speaks for itself.

None of you has said a word about my topic on KILLING OF INNOCENT KENYANS BY MUNGIKI. That's the issue. Your shameless attempt at spinning the issue away from the murderous mayhem caused by Mungiki and discussing conducts of messengers will simply not work.

Take as deep breath and redifine your meaning(s) of hypocricy, and blind tribal following. Those meanings don't seem to reside far away from your eyes. You may wish this time, for the first time, to say a word about what my posting is all about; Mungiki killing innocent Kenyans.
By the way,...I will continue with my postings.

Now here is a repost of Mungiki activities that I can almost predict will not warrant any response from both of you fellas (what a shame);

Kenyans flee deadly gang battle
Mungiki shoot, injure police officers
Kenya orders crackdown on outlawed sect
Mungiki gang spreads terror
Mungiki hit matatu trade
Mungiki Sect Members Hack Girl, 13, to Death
Mungiki Sect Suspects Get Life Terms for Murder
Mungiki Defector Beheaded
Police Arrest Mungiki Sect Leader Ndura Waruinge
Mungiki Boss On Murder Charge
'Mungiki's' Revenge
Mungiki Members Face Murder Charge
How Mungiki trains killers
Mungiki leaders charged
Six 'Mungiki' defectors arrested
Stripping Women Barbaric
Mungiki Attack Traders At Wakulima Market
Return of Mungiki gangs of terror
Ex-MP to stand murder trial
16 Alleged 'Mungiki' Members Arrested
Govt Has Wiped Out Mungiki
Kenyan sect leader Waruinge freed
700 'Mungiki' sect members surrender
Profile: Kenya's secretive Mungiki sect
Five Killed in Mungiki Mayhem
53 Mungiki Suspects Arrested Over Nairobi Terror
Five Mungiki Men Nabbed in Molo As 50 Denied Bond
68 Face Court On Mungiki Link Charges
Banned Sect Leader's Kin Arrested in Raid
Outlawed sect's legacy of murder and mayhem
42 Mungiki Members Charged With Attempted Murder
Police Arrest Mungiki Members in Kirinyaga
Three Killed in Orgy of Mungiki Violence
Mungiki Sect Members Kill Two in City
Mungiki's Long History of Clashes With the Law
30 Naked Mungiki Men Arrested in City Swoop
Church warns state over Mungiki sect
Kenya: Police clash with Mungiki sect followers near Nairobi
Police Tell Mungiki: We're Ready for You
Man Killed As Mungiki Clash
Get Circumcised, Mungiki Sect Tells Women
Kenyan police detain 200 sect followers
Government Bans Mungiki Sect, Private Armies
Kenya police detain sect leader after killings
23 Butchered By Mungiki Followers in a Night of Terror
Religious sect rampages in Kenya
100 Sect Suspects Held in City Fracas
Mungiki Boss Freed
15 Mungiki members arrested
Mungiki Boss Charged in Machakos
Police Raid Sect Leader's Home
Top Mungiki Man Arrested
Kenya police arrest sect members
Top Mungiki Man Arrested
Kenyan crackdown on religious sect


unedited.
Job

[aeichener]

job said:

To answer your simple question, ............I am suddenly enraged to discover that the politically backed Mungiki has KILLED INNOCENT KENYAN LIVES INCLUDING THOSE OF CHILDREN AND WOMEN.

Wow. You suddenly discovered it. What big NEWS.

I wonder whether you fell off the turnip truck only yesterday. The rest here has known this for long. See for example an older DemokrasiaKenya blog entry by OO about the sad tradition of political violence in Kenya, dating long before Mungiki; it might behoove to learn more about it, in your cushioned expatriate US existence.

Alexander

[adongo12345]

Kamale

You have interacted with me on many forums and no doubt know that I really don't care much for who you support or oppose. That is your democratic right.

What I objected to quite strongly is your juvenile and careless use of abusive and quite frankly tribalistic words of talking about things like "black butt". I can see some fella dubois trying to rationalize that kind of garbage and accusing those who condemn it as Raila supporters who see no wrong with him. Just for the record there is nothing wrong with supporting Raila either.

Not long ago one of those who thought they were the second coming of Jesus Christ sent to save the Kibaki regime, one Mr. Mungatana nearly choked from the poisonous foam in his mouth declaring Raila as a "black skinned" something. That kind of tribal verbiage is what ndugu Kamale was trying to spin here and we told him off. We will do it again if he tries that nonsense here or elsewhere.

Raila is a human being he surely has made many mistakes in his political and even personal life. You are free to point those out and convince Kenyans that he and his ODM party is not fit to govern the country.

So far from the humiliating defeat the ODM team working with the Kenyan masses handed to Kibaki and his cohorts at the referendum and from the crowds of Kenyans hooking up with ODM it is safe to say the Kamales and the dubois fantasies are not working that well. But in politics anything is possible.

The issue on this thread was about tribal violence that the Kibaki regime has failed to conclusively deal with. Dubois is wondering where we were when Ntimama unleashed his own tribalism. I don't know where dubois was but I know I have been fighting against tribalism, corruption and abuse of human rights for the better part of my adult life dating back to the time when the Kamales were deeply in love with the Moi regime, the same one they now tell us are full of thugs.

Wasn't Kamale with the Uhuru team fighting against Narc? Was Ruto not a thug then? Was Kanu not full of looters and murderers? Talk about hypocrisy. Turncoats and opportunists who bend with the wind to embrace anything and anybody in power has no business lecturing us about hypocrisy.

Do I support the ODM? You bet I do and I am very proud of that. My support for the ODM is rooted in the historic battle they waged to stop Kibaki from imposing a draconian constitution on the nation. Ruto stood with Kenyans and Kenyans embraced him. Nothing can change that reality. Is Ruto a bad guy? His history speaks for itself. But what about Kibaki was he not in bed with the same criminals who were running and ruining the country. Why this selective condemnation of so and so who was with Kanu when the man kina Kamale keep yapping about spent decades with Kanu.

Mungiki killing Kenyans is wrong and should be denounced without reservations. In fact the gangs and militias in Kenya could be a major problem in future if we don't deal with them. Mungiki as a social movement has every right to exist and in fact if the politicians did not hijack the group and turn it into a terror gang, Mungiki would be doing their own thing and not bothering anybody. Of course their idea of forced mutilation of women is equally criminal and has mercifully been suppressed.

What I have seen in this thread is people like Kamale finally exposing their crude tribalism and that I denounce without any apologies. If supporting the ODM and the sentiments Raila has expressed in his letter is a form of tribalism then I am guilty as charged.

Actually I don't usually agree with Raila all the time. We had a pretty heated argument at his Toronto event just two weeks ago and some people even thought we were going for a major confrontation. Incidentally it was my question on the Ruto matter that triggered the rather terse exchange. But I have known Raila for twenty years and every one of those years he was in the battlefield fighting for greater democracy and human rights. The same cannot be said of that Emilio fella. When Raila joined Kanu after 1997 elections we condemned the move and I personally had a big fight with him in Toronto when he came to meet Kenyans.

My point is that some of these Johnny come latelies giving us lectures about Kenyan politics have no idea where we are coming from. We are here to stay, just get used to it.

Adongo.

[aeichener]

Adongo:
I really liked your *balanced* and differentiated defence of Raila here; much different from the sycophantic eulogies of those who feel it might finally be "their time to eat" at the Kenyan Bunge dinner table in 2007, and much different from the Jaluo tribalism that occasionally surfaces here, too.

But no ethnic group has a monopoly on tribalism, of course. I myself confess to be a bit partial and slanted towards all the causes of Kenya's first peoples. ;-)

Alexander

[dubois]

Adongo,

Just because you are veterans in Kenya's democratic struggles does not mean you can't be wrong. Look at Kiraitu, the late Mirugi, Nyongo and others. Once great activists but eventually reduced to tribal sycophants. You risk being reduced to Raila's errand boys and it is a shame considering your previous efforts. I still have mad respect for you though.

Job,

I envy your simplistic arguments ati 'the buck stops with Kibaki'. Btw, Kibaki has been a failure in many ways but you cannot blame him for the hateful vitriol poured from the mouths of our politicians on a daily basis. It is naive to entirely blame Kibaki for political violence considering our history and the conduct of our opposition leaders. For example your hero has whipped you guys into a fever by claiming for the umpteenth time that his life is in danger. One guy on the Kenya times editorial even claimed that if Raila is harmed, civil war will surely break out. Don't you think that such wild allegations inspire political violence? Under these circumstances, what will stop the Luo youths from forming a gang to 'protect' their leader from a 'kikuyu' assassination? And what will stop Mungiki from getting fresh validation for their criminal activities? I condemn political violence in any form and I will agree with you if you offer a sane impartial analysis. However what you are doing here is the usual Raila bum kissing. By unequivocally condemning Kibaki for anything and everything you give Raila the best shot, in your mind.

[Daktari wa makazi]

Have you ever wondered why are all Kibaki loud mouth apologists are only Kikuyus? One hopes the likes of Kamale will be rewarded with some public toilet plot in Kawangare in recognition of their futile efforts.

Anyway, I once came across the following comment. “Tukuenda ruui rucoke mukaro na nowe tu ungihota” (we want the river to return to its original course and you are the only person capable of doing this)." Although this commnet is usually attributed to Kiambu Mafia, it seems to me Kibaki has interpreted this famous comments to mean recruit only Kikuyus. By doing so, he hopes to return the river to its course. Today it open secret in public offices in Nairobi that Gikuyu is the lingua franca. Considering Kenya’s journey through history, this is great shame! Kibaki is known to be a grand thieve who idolises corruption. And that fact, that he is a thieve and corrupt, supports the reason why he surrounds himself with thieves and corrupt kikuyus. One can easily see why Saitoti is close to Kibaki. It is rumoured that Saitoti is among the riches men in Nairobi.

By openly Kikyunizing all the public institutions known, Kibaki has just made his final step to political self-destruction. That shows me he made a triumphant show of tribalism. Touching on nearly 80, Kibaki should be old enough to have an inkling of the ethnic dynamics of Kenyan politics, and, in particular, the complicated relationship between the different tribes.

The modern Kenya has been held together mainly as an agglomeration of 43+ ethnic groups united by the common desire to resist any return to tribal hegemony. That is why Moi and his Kalenjin cronies were removed. The days of one tribe ruling the land is long gone – it is a simple fact that tribalism will fail.

Kibaki does not understand that truth. He so consumed in kikuyunization, he lost sight of the bigger picture. He seems to follow that route simply because that is the language of the diehard Kikuyu chauvinists who day and night over the last 26 years have dreamt of a return to the good old days. The days when a rapacious kikuyus rode roughshod over everybody else, broke the law with impunity and turned large swathes of Kenya into their personal real estate. This is the group for whom the Nyayo era has been a bad nightmare, an aberration, an accident. But as surely as the river reclaims its course, the force of nature would prevail. So they believed.

There is something basic about Kenyans Kibaki has to learn. George Saitoti suddenly started to be viewed with suspicion when it emerged that he was Kikuyu, not Maasai, after all. If Kibaki imagines he can make his way to the second presidency by trumpeting his quest for the Kikuyu mandate, he will learn soon enough that he has shot himself in the foot. A sharper politician would not have made such a silly mistake. If Kenya has its way, this is one river that will not return to its course very soon. After all, maybe, the river lost its original course in the first place!

[job]

Dubois,

I'll first quote you below (your own words);

"Job, Do not be naive and do not play us for fools!!"

Who is us?

I thought I was debating an individual called Dubois. Who do you represent by claiming ati us? Do you now want to spin that one also on me? Res Ipsa Loquitur- the thing speaks for itself.

Don't gret silly and intoxicated with tribal vitriol if you can't address the simple MUNGIKI issue under this topic. If you also think the buck doesn't stop with Kibaki, and that Kibaki critics are JUST NAIVE,.....then that's up to you. Let your bloated ego and arrogance keep misleading you about how important you are. However I'll confidently tell you that nobody is a simpleton here, Mr. smart Aleck!

I will continue condemning Mungiki and the incompetent Kibaki fella, so get used to it. Do you want me to blame the violence, murders and failure of government to protect its citizens on Raila or Kalonzo (or ODM) just to massage your ego? Be real for once and at least try to get out of shameful ethnic demagoguery......you will never spin lies into truths.

El Sadiq ( wa Uingereza),

Good to hear from you after a long while with that eye-opening post. I'll only quote in part one line from your post depicting your keen observation & remark,.........
"Have you ever wondered why are all Kibaki loud mouth apologista are....."

peace.
unedited.
Job.

[KOLONEL BRISK]

Githongo saw and spoke it. To expect Kibaki to fight corruption is to try to milk a lion. Anyway check out this articles and make your informed judgements. Probably there are others out there that would be positive. If we knew in details the role of drug money being used in Kenyas economy through the likes of the Othaya activist, who seems to know her husband better, then we would ask for a change in the occupier of state house.

www.eastandard.net/archives/cl/hm_news/news.php?articleid=10174

allafrica.com/stories/200611010404.html

experts.about.com/e/c/co/corruption_in_kenya.htm

[aeichener]

sadik said:

Have you ever wondered why are all Kibaki loud mouth apologists are only Kikuyus?

Hm. I see *so* few loud Kibaki apologists these days (even those who try to recognize some remaining GoK post-2003 merits - often Kenyans who return after a number of years or even more than a decade, and are impressed by the differences -, do no longer dabble in flimsy apologetics for the man as such), that I doubt any value of statistics based on single-digit databases.

One hopes the likes of Kamale will be rewarded with some public toilet plot in Kawangare in recognition of their futile efforts.

Good quip that one; I'll gladly make use of it.
And I fully support your quest to make such noble prebends accessible to Kenyans of all ethnia alike. ;D

The days of one tribe ruling the land is long gone

*Nod* Yes, that's true. The once ruling tribe still enjoys a fairly comfortable and cushy economic and social position in Kenya, but is almost totally away from any direct political power. Although I am a bit in doubt whether this ostentatious (late biosas) abstinence is really an entirely good thing...


Alexander

[dubois]

Job,

'us' represents an overwhelming marjority of Kenyans that will send Raila to political oblivion next year. It is only Luos (and Njonjo) who sing his praises on these forums and other editorials. And truth be told you guys are not supporting ODM because of Kalonzo or the other non-Luo candidates. In your minds, Odm is Raila and vice versa. You are all in for a rude shock however. Your tribesman will be rejected not because he is Luo but because he is a corrupt jack bum.