Are Kenyans Ready for Woman President?

[Omwenga]

A fellow netter, commented on a thread about the incident involving Mama Ida and Dr. Sally Kosgey, thus, "No wonder we will never have a women president."

In my Part V and last series on Who Is Martha Karua, , I intend to tackle the question of whether or not Kenyans are ready for a woman president and one of the arguments I have already signaled in my previous blogs, is contrary to common expectations, women will likely not support another woman for president and therefore it's going to be awhile before this happens.

On the other hand, someone published a survey in which it was purported that 63% of those surveyed said they will vote for a woman as president in Kenya.

I questioned the sampling of those surveyed, arguing this could only be possible if the sampling was skewed towards the young, and not the older folk and now may add fewer women than men were sampled, otherwise, the results would have been the opposite were the sampling to be the other way.

I have also hinted in my earlier blogs and will conclude my series on her noting HMK is presidential material but she should work to get Raila elected, play a key role in his administration and then be poised to take over from him as the first Kenyan woman president, after he serves at least one term.

The country will be ready for a woman president then.

Update

I was watching a local news program early today here in the US and this female political pundit, talking about American politics, said the actor George Clooney will win elections here as president "hands-down" because women will vote in droves for him for his "good looks."

The same analyst said an attractive woman, however, better not have high dreams of seeing the inside of the White House as president because women would rather vote for a "plain" woman.

This had me thinking about this thread I started about whether Kenya is ready for a woman president; will an attractive woman fare better or worse than one otherwise in vying for the presidency in Kenya?

I tend to think not because an argument can persuasively be made she'll be a distraction in Cabinet meetings.

[b6k]

To turn the Kencel slogan on its head, the answer is no.

[OtishOtish]

Why not? A woman like Karua seems to have bigger balls than many male Kenyan politicans. So to speak ...

[einstein]

Sept 15, 2011 2:05:44 GMT 3 OtishOtish said:

Why not? A woman like Karua seems to have bigger balls than many male Kenyan politicans. So to speak ...

What is it that you have with bigger BALLS and BUTTS? Any life outside BIG private parts??

[joblesscorner]

Just a quick note on US Politics, in 2008, when Hillary Clinton was running for presidency, Vogue Magazine offered her a spot on an upcoming cover of Vogue Magazine, but she turned it down amidst worries that any affiliation with the fashion mag will make her appear “too feminine” for the role of president.
Just a thought....

[job]

Looks like you already have the answer, if the poll you cite is anything to go by. Was it scientific and credible? There should be another poll asking whether Kenyans are ready to give their kids equal opportunities (e.g education) regardless of gender? That may have more meaning.


Regarding punditry from the American, I would rather hear analysis from a woman pundit in say India, Phillipines, Liberia, UK, Germany, Chile or even Pakistan rather than the hypotheticals from the American (where women are still paid less than men for the same job). The above countries were long ready for women Presidents or Prime Ministers.


Even Pakistan, a country where in some regions buibui-clad women can't step outside their doors without their husband's physical escort, has been led by a woman.

[joblesscorner]

Job,

To some point you are right, btw, President Barack first Bill to sign in law was Equal Pay Legislation. www.nytimes.com/2009/01/30/us/politics/30ledbetter-web.html

[merlin]

Sept 15, 2011 1:44:04 GMT 3 Omwenga said:

I have also hinted in my earlier blogs and will conclude my series on her noting HMK is presidential material but she should work to get Raila elected, play a key role in his administration and then be poised to take over from him as the first Kenyan woman president, after he serves at least one term.

The country will be ready for a woman president then.

I was watching a local news program early today here in the US and this female political pundit, talking about American politics, said the actor George Clooney will win elections here as president "hands-down" because women will vote in droves for him for his "good looks."

The same analyst said an attractive woman, however, better not have high dreams of seeing the inside of the White House as president because women would rather vote for a "plain" woman.

This had me thinking about this thread I started about whether Kenya is ready for a woman president; will an attractive woman fare better or worse than one otherwise in vying for the presidency in Kenya?

I tend to think not because an argument can persuasively be made she'll be a distraction in Cabinet meetings.

The appearance of Beauty

I do not think physical beauty is a supporting factor. It is important for a woman in politics to find a coach to propel her towards the ultimate goal.

I therefore support your suggestion noting Martha Karua is presidential material but she should work to get Raila elected, play a key role in his administration and then be poised to take over from him as the first Kenyan woman president, after he serves at least one term.

I base my opinion on the success of the German Chancellor Angela Merkel who was a protégé of Helmut Kohl (Chancellor of Germany from 1982 to 1998).
With support from Helmut Kohl she was named Secretary-General of the CDU (Christian Democratic Union). In this position, Merkel oversaw a string of Christian Democrat election victories in six out of seven state elections in 1999 alone, breaking the SPD-Green coalition's hold on the Bundesrat, the legislative body representing the states. Following a party financing scandal, which compromised many leading figures of the CDU (most notably Kohl himself, who refused to reveal the donor of DM 2,000,000 claiming he had given his word of honour and the then party chairman Wolfgang Schäuble, Kohl's hand-picked successor, who wasn't cooperative either), Merkel criticized her former mentor, Kohl, and advocated a fresh start for the party without him. She was elected to replace Schäuble, becoming the first female chair of her party, on 10 April 2000. Her election surprised many observers, as her personality offered a contrast to the party she had been chosen to lead; Merkel is a Protestant, originating from predominantly Protestant northern Germany, while the CDU is a male-dominated, socially conservative party with strongholds in western and southern Germany, and the Bavarian sister party, the CSU (Christian Social Union), has deep Catholic roots.

On 30 May 2005, Merkel won the CDU/CSU nomination as challenger to Chancellor Gerhard Schröder of the SPD in the 2005 national elections. The elections led to the grand coalition between the CDU/CSU and SPD of which Angela Merkel became the Chancellor.
Source; en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_Merkel#Leader_of_the_opposition

[kasuku]

Are Kenyans ready for woman President?

Are Kenyan Families ready to live without their good mothers support? Say she just gives birth to the Kids and leave them with the men to rear them?

How many men here would say that in secret their mother was actually the manager at home?

We should stop thinking in a box. This topic question should be left to the Vatican and any other religious institutes, for they are the ones who have problems with Women leadership.

In reality the woman leads as well – if not in most cases better – as the man. And, man and woman leading together equally in a team work, that’s a win-win for all even the Society.

That said, we as a society should look for an Individuals Leadership skills and be blind on the Gender.
The Scandinavian has proved that.

[destiny]

Are women, who happen to be the majority in Kenya, ready to vote in one of their own?

[enigma]

Sept 15, 2011 2:05:44 GMT 3 OtishOtish said:

Why not? A woman like Karua seems to have bigger balls than many male Kenyan politicans. So to speak ...

Well I shall not indulge in the analysis of frontal and rear physicals. Let us dissect Karua's record. If she had been the voice of reason on 28th December 2007, Kenya would be far. Let us look at her tenure as justice minister, Please pick out what outstanding things she acheived in that portfolio. Then let us look at Gichugu. Let us look at the calibre of goons she has unleashed upon us in recent by-elections. Let us then combine the analyses and decide.

[enigma]

Martha Karua put pen to paper to give us a drug dealer and a petty thief as representatives of Vijana in parliament. Is the Kenyan typical kijana a drug dealer or petty thief? Or was it just about her numbers in Bunge? What then can we expect by way of extrapolation?

[OtishOtish]

Sept 15, 2011 17:19:17 GMT 3 enigma said:

Sept 15, 2011 2:05:44 GMT 3 OtishOtish said:

Why not? A woman like Karua seems to have bigger balls than many male Kenyan politicans. So to speak ...

Well I shall not indulge in the analysis of frontal and rear physicals. Let us dissect Karua's record. If she had been the voice of reason on 28th December 2007, Kenya would be far. Let us look at her tenure as justice minister, Please pick out what outstanding things she acheived in that portfolio. Then let us look at Gichugu. Let us look at the calibre of goons she has unleashed upon us in recent by-elections. Let us then combine the analyses and decide.

I was always one of Karua's greatest admirers until the election fiasco. What I saw then was a person who will go to any lengths to keep power---the usual charateristic of a dictator. That episode will remain as a permanent blot on her record. (Her record before that speaks for itself.)

That said, if she ran for president I would vote for her, for two reasons: First, she seems to have mended her ways and once again become a voice of reason and common sense. Second, and more importantly, we don't seem to have a lot of good choices in Kenya, and she is simply the best of a bad lot.

My seond choice for president would be Raila. I have reservations about him primarily because of the way he has allowed the PM's office to be a den of indiscipline. The presidency needs more than personal charisma and energy. He could still win my vote, but time is running short.

Third would probably be Peter Kenneth. I can't say I know a great deal about him, but, as far as I can tell, he is a quiet achiever. I was also impressed that all along he has been paying taxes without making a lot of noise about it. Admittedly, a small thing, but very telling.

The rest ... well, you know them as well as I do.

[akinyi2005]

Why not? any woman who can convince me that she can do a better job than her male competition certainly deserves my vote.

Unfortunately, not many women offer themselves for political office for various reasons. that is why someone like Karua deserves a chance to sell herself to kenyans without anyone poking fun at her personal life or without being referred to as 'a man' whenever she comes out strongly on any issues. for those fond of making referrence to the election fiasco, remember every 'sinner' has a future and every 'saint' has a past.

[OtishOtish]

Sept 15, 2011 20:43:31 GMT 3 akinyi2005 said:

Why not? any woman who can convince me that she can do a better job than her male competition certainly deserves my vote.

Unfortunately, not many women offer themselves for political office for various reasons. that is why someone like Karua deserves a chance to sell herself to kenyans without anyone poking fun at her personal life or without being referred to as 'a man' whenever she comes out strongly on any issues. for those fond of making referrence to the election fiasco, remember every 'sinner' has a future and every 'saint' has a past.

I am neither poking fun or Karua nor implying that she is a man. Nevertheless, Kenya being country of male chauvinists, she will have to be "manly" if she wishes to be president. We may decry that, but there you have it.

The "election fiasco" actually told us a great deal, and it is good that we found out before she got into power. After all, we have had (all over Africa) many seemingly good and decent people go off the rails once they had a taste of power.

I believe Karua is, at core, a bad egg (and before Dec 2007 unknown to us as such), but I would nevertheless vote for her because (a) I believe the new constitution would sufficiently constrain her; (c) she is honest (whether doing the "right thing" or the "wrong thing"); (c) I think she is quite capable. Were it not for those, Raila would be my first choice: he has a healthy appetite for power, but I do not believe he would abuse it to a worrisome extent. But his office!

Come to think of it, the ideal team could be Raila as president (charismatically rallying the masses etc.) and Karua as VP (doing the work that needs to be done). The Kati Kati Man can go kati kati, doing ... er, em, what does the guy actually do? I know he shuttles and so on, but what does he really do in his day-job?

Of course, this being Kenya, Land Of Eaters (and second only to Nigeria in eating), one must eat. So my vote is still available to the highest bidder. Sort of ... sometimes I've never understood why the Kenyan voter keeps his/her promises: Sure, take whatever they give and promise to vote for them, but you don't actually have to vote for them! We need serious civic education. This has just given me a brainwave: with all sorts of colleges, academies, and institutes running above shops or behind pubs and nyama-choma place, why not an "Advanced Academical Institutional College for Civic Education"? I can already smell the money. Aaaiiiiiieeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Sorry. I sometimes get carried away. Vision 2030. Kazi iendelee.

[b6k]

On Martha Karua I agree with Enigma. She soiled herself in the PEV debacle. Just when it seemed she had redeemed herself by resigning from government, she botched it again by giving us Sonko & Kabogo in by-election victories. How low is that?

Merlin when it comes to Karua working with RAO, I find that a very hard sell. The picture that comes to mind was when the principles were to make a public announcement with Kofi Anan. There was a photo of Karua glaring at RAO with such contempt that I would be surprised if that hatred has simply melted away with time.

Titchaz if you could find & post that photo it proves Karua cannot work with RAO. I could be wrong as politics doesn't have permanent friends or enemies. But I'm yet to be convinced.

[tnk]

Sept 15, 2011 20:43:31 GMT 3 akinyi2005 said:

Why not? any woman who can convince me that she can do a better job than her male competition certainly deserves my vote.

Unfortunately, not many women offer themselves for political office for various reasons. that is why someone like Karua deserves a chance to sell herself to kenyans without anyone poking fun at her personal life or without being referred to as 'a man' whenever she comes out strongly on any issues. for those fond of making referrence to the election fiasco, remember every 'sinner' has a future and every 'saint' has a past.

[have edited this a gazillion times]

i always try to avoid this gender angle in debate because it has a few confounding and near contradictory reasoning

for instance in this case we want to consider a candidate specifically a woman for a given post (e.g president in this case), but at the same time we would be advised not to use gender (i.e being woman) to discriminate against the candidate

then the proponents would typically proceed to advise that the specific candidate is better suited for said post on account of being a woman. reading between the lines would suggest that the training or being a woman in society (read subjugated or discriminated against or whatever other reason this woman experienced in the skewed society) is actually a qualifying experience i.e more people should be subjected to this experience in order to be as qualified or more qualified.

am just saying that some of these arguments can be cyclic and in my view a distraction from real and more compound issues

i must say that kenyans and perhaps many other countries have become lazy when it comes to engaging the brain

choosing a president, MP, councillor, school for yourself or child, food, car etc are all about decision making

you can choose to go about making the decision using anything from state of the art bleeding edge tools and resources for enterprise decision making right through to seeking the services of some rain-maker from some remote village in ..... and if all else fails, resort to the time tested method deployed by toddlers... eenie meenie miney moe.

there are many well known decision making tools. these tools help guide corporate decision making but if one wanted to, can tweak and extend these tools to social scenarios. the idea being that these tools do not give you an aha moment but by analysing the results can help make better informed decision

alternatively we can just throw up our hands and pick someone because of gender or tribe. i think thats the easiest, quickest and most lazy way to make a decision. it kind of takes the pressure from you and places it on the candidate(s) i.e i wanted to chose you but you are from the wrong gender, tribe, etc place whatever your excuse here

in fact most people when making decision on something that greatly impact them directly (i.e will hurt or gratify them immensely) refer to something called instinct which in reality is a processing of prior experience with same or similar situation, and in fact mentally carry out a very logical or thorough analysis e.g when i or someone i know did this last, where did they start how did they choose, what did they consider, what hurt, what was good, what hurt the most, what hurt the least, what was stupendously gratifying etc. having mentally worked that out, they declare my "feeling" is that this is the best way out. some people even declare it as a "gut feeling". sometimes this is put even more simply as "i like this...." what happens then is a number of psycophants then run about advising others that "i know so and so personally (ranging in and varying in meaning from he is a very wealthy guy, to he is very influential right through to here is my lifeline to success etc) and if he says this is the way to go, then thats it.

however when the same person is dealing with something a little more remote to the self, i.e has potential of hurting those folks over there, more than it would hurt or please me over here, then the cloak of adventure is put on and all manner of risk and experimental indulgence come into play

same reason why there is rampant corruption and crime and etc including the freebies such as from oil leaks from KPC, overturned tankers and beer vans etc, somehow the individual believes their action does not harm themselves although it may impact "a little " those other folks over there. but the adventure is "awesome" unless of course some "accident" happens. reminds me here that "accident" typically implies lack of knowledge or circumstances are such that the event was totally unexpected. well have only this to say and please think of its meaning not just in the tragedies like salgaa, sinai and what not but even in events such as electing a leader. "SAFETY IS NO ACCIDENT".

anyway i digress, back to my point - even if its done "intuitively" or by "instinct" or whatever catchy phrase, setting a list of selection criteria is the way to go. list all possible criteria and yes that includes gender, tribe and any other component you think counts. having done that, providing a weighting mechanism that resonates with you, whether its county, tribe, gender, age, national or whatever floats your boat. prioritise if need be. allow for variations if need be. if you want to you can state why one criteria is more critical than another. remove those that are of insignificant value if you are overwhelmed even remove all except one i.e stick to am chosing because of gender only (replace with whatever flavor really excites you).

we do this when choosing a fabric in the shopping mall i.e buying a shoe is an intricate decision making process, will it fit, how long will it last, will i be comfortable walking in it. will i trip easily, do i have matching clothes, will it stand all weather, how about driving or running with it. how will my friends or fans react to it, funny some people walk into the shop, try on one or two and they are out. others labor for months

am not saying that everything should be subjected to some mechanical evaluation system. am just suggesting that we do not trivialize an important process and condense it into a very simplistic decision like if it will not impact not only ourselves in the present but may have even very damaging impact on the future.

ask yourself if you were one person in a position where you could have said or done just one thing and only thing that could have help somehow directly or even indirectly prevent the PEV, would you have done it or not?

[OtishOtish]

Sept 15, 2011 22:28:19 GMT 3 b6k said:

On Martha Karua I agree with Enigma. She soiled herself in the PEV debacle. Just when it seemed she had redeemed herself by resigning from government, she botched it again by giving us Sonko & Kabogo in by-election victories. How low is that?

Merlin when it comes to Karua working with RAO, I find that a very hard sell. The picture that comes to mind was when the principles were to make a public announcement with Kofi Anan. There was a photo of Karua glaring at RAO with such contempt that I would be surprised if that hatred has simply melted away with time.

Titchaz if you could find & post that photo it proves Karua cannot work with RAO. I could be wrong as politics doesn't have permanent friends or enemies. But I'm yet to be convinced.

I used to say the same thing about Raila working with Moi, but didn't he try? Politics is a strange business. Do you really believe that someone as smart as Karua really respects the clowns around Kibaki?

Be that as it may, do Kenyans really have many choices?

[OtishOtish]

Of course, we all know that these are purely intellectual exercises. At the end of the day, everyone will vote for "our man", who will then sit in parliament making millions while doing nothing. same old story. Still, it is fascinating to dream of alternatives.

[kasuku]

Sept 15, 2011 15:57:12 GMT 3 destiny said:

Are women, who happen to be the majority in Kenya, ready to vote in one of their own?

Destiny

I read you;

Yes women in Kenya have the power to make or destroy other women. Maendeleo ya wanawake is a good example. They were used as a tool to undermine the other women. FIDA is the modern women enemy dresses in a wolf skin.

Psychologies would tell you that a battered woman has a hate and love relationship with her Batterer. If he batters her then turns around and shows her affectionate or rewards her, she gets hooked on it and will do anything he asks her to do; on one side because of fear and on the other side because of hope of getting a reward- which for her is the only gesture for affection she sees from him…

You will hear a battered woman giving advice that a man should give a strong willed and independent woman who dares question her man or any man in general a good beating.

We saw that in Ukambani when Kaluki Ngilu was fighting for her rights as a woman to be heard. It’s mostly the women in Ukambani who were against her (actually the men admired her)

It was us younger women who talked to our mothers to look in the mirror and ask themselves if they wouldn’t wish to be a Kaluki too.
Destiny, Daughters have a responsibility to teach their mothers too. They appreciate it too.

[mrembo]

Next president will be a woman, says Nigerian prophet

www.the-star.co.ke/local/western--nyanza/40042-woman-will-be-take-presidency-next-year-nigerian-prophet

[merlin]

Sept 16, 2011 10:00:12 GMT 3 kasuku said:

Sept 15, 2011 15:57:12 GMT 3 destiny said:

Are women, who happen to be the majority in Kenya, ready to vote in one of their own?

Destiny

I read you;

Yes women in Kenya have the power to make or destroy other women. Maendeleo ya wanawake is a good example. They were used as a tool to undermine the other women. FIDA is the modern women enemy dresses in a wolf skin.

Just my unfounded opinion.

I perceive woman look for protection at men. Politics is somewhere related to protection of the community, tribe or nation and therefore woman will vote for a male representative.

However if the protection offered by men results in a facade of chest stumping and is life threatening for the community such as eternal poverty they will look for a strong woman.

[b6k]

In this article by Felista Wangari, the reporter covering Ms Kingwa Kamencu (it's very tempting to break down the surname in a cheeky mnemonic device as was done for Judge Ekaterina), asks whether women really are their own worst enemies. Apparently women have been a lot harsher on "that girl that cried on tv" than men!

Some asked if she'd need time off to deal with relationship problems, her eventual honeymoon & maternity.

www.nation.co.ke/Features/saturday/Are+we+our+own+worst+enemy/-/1216/1237266/-/11tmbk8z/-/index.html

[einstein]

Sept 17, 2011 3:52:58 GMT 3 b6k said:

In this article by Felista Wangari, the reporter covering Ms Kingwa Kamencu (it's very tempting to break down the surname in a cheeky mnemonic device as was done for Judge Ekaterina), asks whether women really are their own worst enemies. Apparently women have been a lot harsher on "that girl that cried on tv" than men!

Some asked if she'd need time off to deal with relationship problems, her eventual honeymoon & maternity.

www.nation.co.ke/Features/saturday/Are+we+our+own+worst+enemy/-/1216/1237266/-/11tmbk8z/-/index.html

B6K,

According to that article, women could refer to their fellow women as "that girl[/size] who......" but somehow it is offending if a man refers to a woman likewise? You know, I'm still searching for an answer but can't get it.

[Deleted]

Sept 17, 2011 4:56:29 GMT 3 einstein said:

Sept 17, 2011 3:52:58 GMT 3 b6k said:

In this article by Felista Wangari, the reporter covering Ms Kingwa Kamencu (it's very tempting to break down the surname in a cheeky mnemonic device as was done for Judge Ekaterina), asks whether women really are their own worst enemies. Apparently women have been a lot harsher on "that girl that cried on tv" than men!

Some asked if she'd need time off to deal with relationship problems, her eventual honeymoon & maternity.

www.nation.co.ke/Features/saturday/Are+we+our+own+worst+enemy/-/1216/1237266/-/11tmbk8z/-/index.html

B6K,

According to that article, women could refer to their fellow women as "that girl

[/size] who......" but somehow it is offending if a man refers to a woman likewise? You know, I'm still searching for an answer but can't get it.[/quote]

Einstein,

just like Blacks use the N word and no White person or even other people of colour better use that damn word; is the reason women can use terms like girl/gal but even then that is between women who are well known to each other. I think a man who is friends or lovers with a woman could go there.I find it problematic when women refer to other women as girls in formal contexts. Although, in informal contexts the use of the word is women's prerogative. Having said that, I still think that oppressed groups should stay away from using terms that have been used to denigrate and exclude them. The N word is a good example of this. The way the term girl was being used on many threads in the last few days was provocative and intended to demean. The word was wielded in the service of an important cornerstone of patriarchy; the infantilizing of women.

You are one of those people who don't want to get it. Perhaps because you like many men are heavily implicated. Like many men who live by the dictates of a patriarchal/brutalized masculinity; you haven't the capacity to comprehend.

It isn't just one answer you should be searching for. If you could wrap your head around the matter gender oppression of women; you'd understand why I speak of gaps and many many answers to be sort.

I find it astounding even as I understand fully well why it is that men can take progressive stances on many matters; while in the same breath take the most reactionary positions on matters gender.


If you are as innocent as you claim about your pursuit to understand you'd start by listening to those most negatively impacted by the patriarchal organising of societies. But no. And it isn't just you. The irrational urge by men to dominate and silence women particularly those who seek to raise awareness about the lived experiences of women prevails.

Male allies are treated to dismissals such as being being labled metrosexuals. If Jukwaa wasn't Jukwaa they'd probably be called gay. That in an effort to silence and discredit them.

At the very least you should refer yourself to OO's links. I think the tread is "lets talk about it". Please lets, but mostly men, guys, fellas, dudes etc have to raise the bar and raising that bar will begin the day you drop your male arrogance and actually start looking for direction from women on this and many other issues.

Plus, go out and educate yourselves about the historical oppression of women and the ways in which women have resisted. That is your work as it is mine. That will enable us to at least meet in high school rather than kindergarten when we engage on gender.