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Post by subsaharanite on Nov 24, 2011 5:51:03 GMT 3
Soon judges will be flying to your courtroom at your expense. These are some of the 'reforms' that Mutunga is proposing. I have never heard anywhere in the world where judges are accorded helicopters.
Are these the reforms that we requested? Mutunga thinks reforms can only be instituted at very high costs? Do we need to build new courts as a form of reforms?
Is this the man we are happy with as a chief justice?
Chief Justice Willy Mutunga wants helicopters for his officers.
He said Wednesday the aircraft were among the key requirements that would facilitate the work of judicial officers, especially in far-flung areas.
“If Kenyans want judiciary reforms, it is going to cost them. We will come to Parliament to ask for the funds,” he said.
The Judiciary’s ambitious reform programme includes building new courts and modernising existing ones in all the 47 counties.
Dr Mutunga, who was speaking during a meeting with National Assembly Speaker Kenneth Marende at Parliament Buildings Wednesday, said he was confident his dream would come true.
“The courts, just like the Kenya Wildlife Service, need helicopters. We could hire, but I think this country has enough resources to buy not one, but three, helicopters for us,” he said.
He said judges in far-flung areas needed to travel to Nairobi and other areas to see their families at least once a month.
“It sometimes takes officers up to four days to travel due to bad roads,” he said.
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Mr Marende said the proposal was not unusual, citing a case in Nigeria where the state bought a jet for the Speaker of Parliament.
“But I think here, I am not going to ask for one,” he quipped.
The CJ also wants an attractive retirement package for judges. “We should not give them an excuse to look the other way or be tempted,” he said.
The Judiciary would also introduce a training programme for judges.
“As you know, judges used to say nobody can train them and that is the arrogance that many lawyers have, but we envisage training them on issues of national interest, not just the law,” Dr Mutunga said.
More officers will also be hired as the Judiciary plans to put up a High Court in every county.
Mr Marende said Parliament was worried that lately many litigants were enjoining him as the Speaker in court cases.
He said there have also been cases where judges have made rulings which restrict or sanction Parliament on some decisions and said this was not in line with separation of powers.
“This shows lack of appreciation of the law,” the Speaker said, adding that in some cases, judges have ruled that some laws passed by and assented to by Parliament were unconstitutional.hief Justice Willy Mutunga wants helicopters for his officers.
He said Wednesday the aircraft were among the key requirements that would facilitate the work of judicial officers, especially in far-flung areas.
“If Kenyans want judiciary reforms, it is going to cost them. We will come to Parliament to ask for the funds,” he said.
The Judiciary’s ambitious reform programme includes building new courts and modernising existing ones in all the 47 counties.
Dr Mutunga, who was speaking during a meeting with National Assembly Speaker Kenneth Marende at Parliament Buildings Wednesday, said he was confident his dream would come true.
“The courts, just like the Kenya Wildlife Service, need helicopters. We could hire, but I think this country has enough resources to buy not one, but three, helicopters for us,” he said.
He said judges in far-flung areas needed to travel to Nairobi and other areas to see their families at least once a month.
“It sometimes takes officers up to four days to travel due to bad roads,” he said.
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Mr Marende said the proposal was not unusual, citing a case in Nigeria where the state bought a jet for the Speaker of Parliament.
“But I think here, I am not going to ask for one,” he quipped.
The CJ also wants an attractive retirement package for judges. “We should not give them an excuse to look the other way or be tempted,” he said.
The Judiciary would also introduce a training programme for judges.
“As you know, judges used to say nobody can train them and that is the arrogance that many lawyers have, but we envisage training them on issues of national interest, not just the law,” Dr Mutunga said.
More officers will also be hired as the Judiciary plans to put up a High Court in every county.
Mr Marende said Parliament was worried that lately many litigants were enjoining him as the Speaker in court cases.
He said there have also been cases where judges have made rulings which restrict or sanction Parliament on some decisions and said this was not in line with separation of powers.
“This shows lack of appreciation of the law,” the Speaker said, adding that in some cases, judges have ruled that some laws passed by and assented to by Parliament were unconstitutional.
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Post by marikopolitico on Nov 24, 2011 13:10:18 GMT 3
Idiotic statement from a man Id think would know better.
I agree that more courts will need to be built and a training program for judges would be necessary but what of one of the biggest issues of the Judiciary in Kenya?
So far he hasnt said anything about the reduction of the backlog of cases in the Judiciary- something which is seriously affecting Kenyans particularly in the corruption cases!
All Im seeing is trivial suggestions about dress codes and now this flagrant nonsense of judges in helicopters-as if they arent granted official cars by the government plus travel allowances!
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Post by mzee on Nov 24, 2011 15:40:11 GMT 3
If these are the kind of reforms that Mutunga is aiming for then we are as doomed . When I first saw the helicopter statement I thought it was a joke.
Why on earth should judges be bought helicopters to visit their families living in Nairobi?
Must judges have families in Nairobi?
Can’t we have judges living with their families in the location that they work? Has this not been the practice?
Should judges who choose to keep their families in Nairobi be compensated for doing so?
Then we should go ahead and buy every civil servant working in “far flung” parts of the country an helicopter to fly back to their families in Nairobi?
What is so special about judges?
Is the CJ trying to threaten/blackmail or should I say the fleece country?
I think that these are the kind of demands that points to the fact that this guy will be a failure. It mind boggling to hear such from a man most people hold is high esteem.
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Post by stranger1in3 on Nov 24, 2011 20:17:03 GMT 3
We are awaiting reforms!in the judiciary,executive and the legislature.God Bless Kenya!
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Post by roughrider on Nov 25, 2011 17:24:53 GMT 3
Folks;
I actually support the Chief Justice. I think this makes sense. I recently read a feature on helicopters that suggested that they are not as expensive to run and maintain.
If a judge works hard enough he can to several far flung areas each week by helicopter delivering judgements and hearing cases. The High Court can then sit anywhere.
It will also deal with the vacation problem that Willy Mutunga is talking about.
What I would really love to hear is how ICT is being used to make the delivery of justice more efficient and to deal with corruption. Why should I go to court just for a perfunctory exercise of setting dates or mention when the same can be emailed to me? Or, dear lawyers, am I missing the point of these rituals?
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Post by Omwenga on Nov 25, 2011 23:39:58 GMT 3
Soon judges will be flying to your courtroom at your expense. These are some of the 'reforms' that Mutunga is proposing. I have never heard anywhere in the world where judges are accorded helicopters. Are these the reforms that we requested? Mutunga thinks reforms can only be instituted at very high costs? Do we need to build new courts as a form of reforms? Is this the man we are happy with as a chief justice?
Mr Marende said the proposal was not unusual, citing a case in Nigeria where the state bought a jet for the Speaker of Parliament.
“But I think here, I am not going to ask for one,” he quipped.
The CJ also wants an attractive retirement package for judges. “We should not give them an excuse to look the other way or be tempted,” he said.
The Judiciary would also introduce a training programme for judges.
“As you know, judges used to say nobody can train them and that is the arrogance that many lawyers have, but we envisage training them on issues of national interest, not just the law,” Dr Mutunga said.
More officers will also be hired as the Judiciary plans to put up a High Court in every county.
Mr Marende said Parliament was worried that lately many litigants were enjoining him as the Speaker in court cases.
He said there have also been cases where judges have made rulings which restrict or sanction Parliament on some decisions and said this was not in line with separation of powers.
“This shows lack of appreciation of the law,” the Speaker said, adding that in some cases, judges have ruled that some laws passed by and assented to by Parliament were unconstitutional.[/b][/quote] Putting the merits of Kenyan judges being provided to "visit their families once a month," which is a preposterous position in by itself unless the CJ meant visiting mipando ya kando where such luxuries might make sense, the timing of the CJ's statement could not be more worse. What the CJ needs to do, is to start highlighting priorities of reform he and his team must immediately address and I don't see where having helicopters falls in other than outside the top 10 of urgently needed reforms. Let the CJ and JSC show some real reforms and then ask for whatever other bonuses he thinks the judiciary officers should be given including such helicopters, if he can make a case for it. Next, MPs will demand the same thing and before we know it we have advanced from road carnage to air carnage as everyone wants to fly in the comfort of their own helicopters not the fleet of luxury cars and security the government can't afford to begin with. The more things change, the more the remain the same. Let's certainly not hope so; at least not the judiciary where there is so much rot and a lot must be made to clean and revive it. |
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Post by subsaharanite on Nov 26, 2011 0:27:42 GMT 3
Omwenga,
I agree with you. Let these guys lock up some of these politicians who have squandered the tax payer's money then maybe we can reward them with copters.
Reforms can be as simple as making case files not to 'disappear' in court when needed or even having judges conclude cases in time rather than taking years.
For example, there is no need for a judge to hear a case if all the witnesses are not present then postpone it for a couple of years. They need to make sure that all the witnesses are lined up before holding a hearing. We do not need a helicopter or a new court house for that.
Mutunga is behaving like its 'his time to eat'
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Post by Omwenga on Nov 26, 2011 1:01:46 GMT 3
Omwenga, I agree with you. Let these guys lock up some of these politicians who have squandered the tax payer's money then maybe we can reward them with copters. Reforms can be as simple as making case files not to 'disappear' in court when needed or even having judges conclude cases in time rather than taking years. For example, there is no need for a judge to hear a case if all the witnesses are not present then postpone it for a couple of years. They need to make sure that all the witnesses are lined up before holding a hearing. We do not need a helicopter or a new court house for that. Mutunga is behaving like its 'his time to eat' , We are in complete agreement on this. |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 26, 2011 1:14:49 GMT 3
Omwenga, Reforms can be as simple as making case files not to 'disappear' in court when needed or even having judges conclude cases in time rather than taking years. For example, there is no need for a judge to hear a case if all the witnesses are not present then postpone it for a couple of years. They need to make sure that all the witnesses are lined up before holding a hearing. We do not need a helicopter or a new court house for that. Mutunga is behaving like its 'his time to eat' Just picked up on your post. Two things must be corrected. 1. the disappearance of files has very little to do with judges but more to do with orderlies who work in the judiciary. These are employees of the Justice Ministry. To cure that problem, cases are being transferred into electronic system meaning that files can be found through accessing computers. It will take time, but is a project underway at the moment. 2. As for the witnesses, judge don't call them. It is the parties and their lawyers who arraigned them before court and therefore remains their responsibility. Judges must weight whether to postponed a hearing until a witness is available for the sake of fairness, or to proceed regardless. In matter where the witness is crucial, it would be unfair to proceed regardless, hence the need to adjourn until the witness is available. You wouldn't some people to be hanged only because his alibi witness has not been given a chance to be heard, would you? How on earth would you assume that Mutungi's proactive stance in streamlining the judiciary means he wants to 'eat'? That is simply pompous. |
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Post by matekmati on Nov 26, 2011 20:27:28 GMT 3
Sadik,
Why must you always try not to see what even the blind do see.
Adongo has been spot on about you in that thread on miguna.
I wonder if some people here in jukwaa are not having several login names. This is because there are some peole whose contributions take the same line of thought on all issues. Maybe some of you believe that numbers make your contributions right but here it is just a forum for exhange and not voting for ideas.
Stop being a GROSS POLLUTANT much as you are entitled to your opinion.
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 27, 2011 12:43:03 GMT 3
Soon judges will be flying to your courtroom at your expense. These are some of the 'reforms' that Mutunga is proposing. I have never heard anywhere in the world where judges are accorded helicopters. .................. Is this the man we are happy with as a chief justice? ................. Chief Justice Willy Mutunga wants helicopters for his officers. He said Wednesday the aircraft were among the key requirements that “The courts, just like the Kenya Wildlife Service, need helicopters. We could hire, but I think this country has enough resources to buy not one, but three, helicopters for us,” he said. .......... He said judges in far-flung areas needed to travel to Nairobi and other areas to see their families at least once a month. , During the french revolution after the resourceful doctor Guillotine had changed careers to inventing torture and life-ending instruments, a circus developed as the guillotine moved from town to town, chopping off heads in a grand tour of the land. Ringside seats auctioned! Just before the mass production of the spectacular death-machine, A thinker had informed the revolutionary government that the justice must be seen to be done, must also involve a theatrical element in deliverance, to awe and intertain the masses... The high-court arriving in Oyugis in a fleet of helicopters for two days of legal fanfare before taking off to Kakamega, may just be the intertainment we need, if Mutunga could really have the nerve to cut somebody's neck! --Like the fat one of professor Ongeri who again is being investigated for the upteenth time for stealing bursaries kitty! But this is the Dr.Willy of tea and gotmeat choma with Moi, and pacts with the GCG top- brass in the dark! No guillotine operator in him! I will go with gacaca! If there is to be permanent miscarriage of justice, I do not want to pay! |
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Post by subsaharanite on Nov 27, 2011 15:27:27 GMT 3
Sadik,
It will be difficult to decouple judges from any other person working within the court system, reason being that the former ( who have the mandate) have never punished the latter for disappearance of court files. I have never had a court clerk or file custodian or whatever name they call them being suspended for making the files disappear. Infact, the judges should find these people culpable instantly and sentence them there and there given that they make their work harder. It is therefore very likely that the judges work together with these guys.
Further, I still do not see why a judge could listen to a case with half the witnesses lined up. Even if the mandate to source the witnesses lies with the lawyers, a judge can request that only cases with complete parties be brought to a sitting. A presiding judge has authority to order this and can see through theatrics of delaying justice by lawyers. He should therefore find these lawyers guilty of this charge should they not bring forward all the stated witnesses.
Sadik, as you can see, Willy Mutunga has only instituted one change of changing robes to some gospel choir attire. Do not support him in the name of fairness.
Jakaswanga.
I agree with you, judges are civil servants. When they are posted in Mandera, they are expected to work in Mandera or resign. They are well paid and can afford to drive to Loki, take a flight to Nbi over the weekend and come back. Better still, they can move to Mandera with their families since the government accords them adequate security.
It is absurd that Mutunga is already making demands even before he does any substantial work.
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Post by Luol Deng on Nov 28, 2011 23:19:58 GMT 3
When Mutunga clinched the CJ position, he was striving to make the judiciary to be seen to be accessible to the people....The visits to the slums, etc. Right now he is doing the contrary. Availing helicopters for judges to visit their families seems a tad lame to me. If the MPs from the remote sections of Northern Kenya would have made the same demands then they would have been roundly criticised, it is only fair that the CJ should get the same treatment.
Why would you avail helicopters to judges and deny the same to the MP of North Horr for instance considering that the total area of North Horr is larger than the entire central province.
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 29, 2011 20:13:27 GMT 3
Jakaswanga. I agree with you, judges are civil servants. When they are posted in Mandera, they are expected to work in Mandera or resign. They are well paid and can afford to drive to Loki, take a flight to Nbi over the weekend and come back. Better still, they can move to Mandera with their families since the government accords them adequate security. It is absurd that Mutunga is already making demands even before he does any substantial work. Subsaharanite They say if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. But in Kenya we definately do not pay peanuts for the men in public office, we pay TRIPLE A plus bonus, yet all we have are monkeys! How come? And wait for it, come 2012 december when the results of the presidential election is announced, the monkey in chief will be unveiled, at an escalating cost of past ksh 2.4M per month! [Huyo Huyo! shikeni muizi!] I personally prefer my monkeys at pea- or sub peanut rates! that is why if you ask me for a verdict on this helicopter request, I wouldn't give Willy boy even a single donkey-drawn cart confiscated from Al-Shabaab across! ------------------ NB: Somebody has reminded me in my inbox that I am using the word Gatchatcha as if it were a common Kenyan concept. I apologise: Gacaca is the system developed in Rwanda to try genocidaires. A kind of villager tribunal under an ancient shadowy tree. Half the male population was arrested and incacerated, swamping and overruning the legal system when Kagame's boys won the war! Maybe we develop a similar model for ourselves to complement the flying judges service proposed by the new kid at the bench! |
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Post by Man Of Letters on Nov 29, 2011 21:41:21 GMT 3
They say if you pay peanuts, you get monkeys. But in Kenya, we definitely do not pay peanuts for the men in public office, we pay TRIPLE A plus bonus, yet all we have are monkeys! How come? And wait for it, come 2012 December when the results of the presidential election is announced, the monkey in chief will be unveiled, at an escalating cost of past ksh 2.4M per month! [Huyo Huyo! shikeni muizi!] At least our monkeys in public office are highly trained in the theft of public funds. We should send these monkeys back to the forest next year, whether the elections are held in August or December. As regards the bill pending in the house regarding the election date, I plead with ODM M.P.s if they have the numbers, to oppose and defeat this bill. The sooner we start afresh the better. |
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 29, 2011 22:15:46 GMT 3
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Post by subsaharanite on Nov 29, 2011 22:45:56 GMT 3
This guy is not serious. Can someone tell him that we want reforms and not physical structures.
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 29, 2011 23:09:14 GMT 3
This guy is not serious. Can someone tell him that we want reforms and not physical structures. What reforms? This is outright theft. Mutunga has done the right thing. Unlike previous CJs who would have kept quiet and be part of the robbery and let the rot go on he has called it what it is. You cannot pump 1 billion into a building and leave it falling apart. Mutunga is the overall CEO of the Kenyan judiciary. From the looks of it, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There is a cartel milking this docket. We need to get them exposed. How are you going to talk about reforms when people are stealing right from under your feet. |
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