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Post by adongo12345 on Apr 15, 2007 23:16:11 GMT 3
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Post by miguna on Apr 16, 2007 2:07:44 GMT 3
Adongo,
Interesting indeed!
And what are the FACTS they "set straight?"
The only forum the police should "set the facts straight" is in a courtroom.
Assuming (and I am not buying this nonsense from the real kahuna, "The Police Commissioner") that they now have the driver who knocked down Onyango, what action have they taken against her? Why haven't she been arrrested and charged? Why is the police responding to a newspaper story, in defence of the Gikonyos, when neither their names nor that of Onyango were mentioned in the article that appeared in Kenya Times?
Why did "investigations" only occur after the pubication of my article? As you will recall, the matter was reported to the Runda Police the same day?
As you can all see, the so-called Police Commissioner has not refuted the facts in my story. They didn't even state who owns the vehicle and whether or not Dr. Betty Gikonyo was in that vehicle (as a driver or passenger) at the time of the offence, for indeed this was not a mere accident only.
Obviously, the only story they are responding to is right here in Jukwaa, and we know who works for them here! Over to the apologists....[unedited]
Miguna =================================================
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Post by kamalet on Apr 16, 2007 8:40:35 GMT 3
Miguna,
Would it really matter how the police knew about the Gikonyos? You wrote an article which Kenya Times decided to edit out the names as they could not confirm the veracity of the accusations that you had made. In you article you did allude to many things that could have pointed to the Gikonyos. You published the unedited version of the article in Jukwaa which went ahead to name the Gikonyos and the victim.
I took up the matter with them first to confirm if they had actually been involved in an accident and secondly to inform them that their names had appeared in certain Kenyan internet forums, for which it may be important to clear their names. At that time, I told this forum that they had indeed denied involvement in the accident.
You gripe now appears to be that the police are 'defending' the Gikonyos when you did not mention their names in the newspaper article. I think you are trying to be clever by half here Miguna. You are very aware that I informed the Gikonyo's about the article as well as the goings on in this forum where you have persistently made false accusations against them. Is it wrong for them to go to the police to re-clarify that they actually were not involved in the accident as alleged by you, upon which the police issue the clarifications? Now you wish to divert attention from the Gikonyos by challenging the police to take the offender to court. They have named the driver as Sarah Muthoni Kibera and even gave the details of the vehicle involved. Are these the same details you alleged to have when you wrote the article - "Witnesses promptly reported the matter to the police and gave description of what had occurred, including specific details of the vehicle registration numbers. The vehicle was traced to the doctors residence but predictably, the police became disinterested in the case."
What about you not actually reading what the police say? Here is what you say:
Why did "investigations" only occur after the pubication of my article? As you will recall, the matter was reported to the Runda Police the same day?
Look at what the police said?
Fifth, that the standard police procedure was strictly observed in dealing with the accident, including the commencement of immediate investigations.
The only fact the police have confirmed and which I do not think were ever in dispute was the existence of the accident and the name of the victim whilst the rest were lies that you peddled.
Miguna, even for a lawyer you surely must know that in the event of an accident, the police will only be interested in the owner of the vehicle in a hit and run incident. In this case the matter was reported and the police would only be interested in the driver as opposed to the owner. If a crime is ever confirmed, then action can only be taken against the driver. Remember that in your Jukwaa article you were emphatic that the vehicle was being "driven at the time by Dr. Betty Gikonyo" so the police have busted another of your lies!!
When Elisha decides to sue for his injuries, then he can join the owner of the vehicle. Unless you have hired quacks for lawyers, surely a simple request to the registrar of motor vehicles would have confirmed for you who actually owns the vehicle - and all this for 100 shillings!
Miguna, I told you that once this thing unravels, you will have been exposed for a liar, but you insisted that you were right.
The police have confirmed that the driver of the vehicle was a Sarah Muthoni Kibera and not Dr. Betty Gikonyo. Secondly the police have indicated that the vehicle involved was a Toyota Rav 4 registration KAN 856K. I think if you are still clutching for straws to redeem yourself, you can ask your local legal cousel to do a simple search at Times Tower on who is the actual owner of the vehicle...it may just turn out to be owned by the Gikonyos upon which the egg would be to an extent on my face. Currently you do have a lot of egg on yours!
Your problem is that you were in such a rush to score ethnic and political scores that you forgot that a little patience would have given you more facts to go with. As it turned out, this was never about poor Elisha, you just wanted to profit from the incident which sadly has failed. You may want to ask Oloo to pull this thread from Jukwaa as your article is perfect fodder for a libel suit against you.
Are you happy to publish an apology to the Gikonyo's in Jukwaa where all this started now that you have been proven a liar?
-unedited-
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Post by roughrider on Apr 16, 2007 16:50:49 GMT 3
kamale, Miguna;
Allow me?
I think this thread has taken a decidedly nasty turn with threats and counter-threats. I doubt this is the reason we are all here.
As I see it this matter could easily have been resolved over a phone call or a cup of kenyan coffee. Miguna, true to his billing, was trying to defend and highlight the case of an allegedly helpless victim of a car accident and in the process kamale noticed some misrepresentations which he tried to correct.
Now, where is the rocket science in that? Now that the matter is in police hands, why don't we allow the police to do their work and hold our peace?
Certainly there are more important things we can discuss and for the heck of it I keep starting new threads every other day!
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Post by kamalet on Apr 16, 2007 18:31:53 GMT 3
RR,
You good intentions are noted. But what is important here is the fact that it is important that people refrain from peddling lies, insisting so and in the process labeling contributors in this forum as apologists and messengers.
Miguna should be gracious enough to admit that he was misled as to the identities of the Gikonyos, perhaps apologise to them and we shall let the matter rest. He should not feel obligated to apologise to me as I think I am vindicated by the police report.
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Post by aeichener on Apr 16, 2007 20:19:59 GMT 3
That is a very gracious and gentlemanly offer of Kamale. I hope Miguna Miguna Miguna Esq. takes it up now, and does as suggested.
Alexander
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Post by miguna on Apr 16, 2007 21:30:17 GMT 3
Kamau, Here is what the Police Commissioner stated, verbatim: " Following your publication of the article, investigations into the allegations presented therein were conducted and a number of facts were established." You may want to wag that statement as contradicting mine but I don't know what you smoked. As for "hit and run;" what occured in this was tantamount to a hit and run. The driver left the scene of the accident before the police arrived; didn't she? Did she attend at the police station or wait at the scene?Frankly, all the other points you raise are ruses. I'm not interested in them. As far as I am concerned, a Dr. Betty Gikonyo was driving the car and owned it. I have that one from the authority of both the victim and a Juliet Gikonyo.The only point that I thought you might have raised was whether Dr. Betty Gikonyo is the same Dr. Betty Gikonyo who is the wife to President Kibaki's physician. We are still waiting for that confirmation. Meanwhile, the only reason the Police Commissioner issued the stament was because of the President's conntection. Or perhaps it is because of Kamau's connection here. You see Kamau, you can't keep treating Kenyans who are neither Kikuyu nor in President Kibaki's cabal as animals and get away with it all the time forever! With police like this: www.timesnews.co.ke/17april07/nwsstory/topstry.htmlwww.eastandard.net/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143967443Do I have to say anything more? [unedited] MM ==========================================================
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Post by kamalet on Apr 17, 2007 8:38:33 GMT 3
Miguna,
You simply cannot admit being wrong? Can you?
Let us see how best to help you understand that you need not smoke to understand simple english:
"Following your publication of the article, investigations into the allegations presented therein were conducted and a number of facts were established."
You would like us to think that it is the report in Kenya Times following your article that led to the investigations commencing. But this is not right if you re-read this again:
.....investigations into the allegations presented therein were conducted and a number of facts were established
What the police are reporting here is what they established after the report in the paper from their own records!!
The fifth item on what they had [u]establised[/u][/b] read as follows:
Fifth, that the standard police procedure was strictly observed in dealing with the accident, including the commencement of immediate investigations.
What you want us to do is read a statement in isolation of others so that you appear to take credit. Well now you have what the police established following their investigations of the allegations that you made!
You again claim that you have it on the authority of both the victim and a Juliet Gikonyo that the driver was Betty Gikonyo and that she owned the vehicle.
Unfortunately, you would like us to believe that now Elisha knows that the driver was Betty Gikonyo and even owns the vehicle. Just how did he know who the owner was without sight of the log book or even a simple search at Times Tower? You will even suggest that you conversation with a Juliet Gikonyo actually colloborated the information that the victim Elisha had!
Miguna, I told you that you are being clever by half.
You did not even know the vehicle registration or even the make of the car involved until the Police told us otherwise you would have splashed all that information. Now the Police give us a lot more details than even you or the quacks representing you could provide to Jukwaa, and what do you ask us to do? Nah!! Forget the police, they know nothing and only the mighty Miguna knows it all from a cold Toronto lawyer's ( okay - solicitor's)office!
Before we let you off the hook, in your original post, you said that the lawyer of the Gikonyos had written to Elisha. Are you brave enough to name that lawyer here on Jukwaa or was this one of the many LIES we are busting here in Jukwaa?
You are the one that mentioned the President's physician in your article here in Jukwaa. If the Gikonyo's went to complain to the police that they had wrongly been associated with an Accident and they had not been involved, the fact that their names were in the public domain is sufficient to seek out that clarification. You will ask why they did not clear it themselves. You will probably find out that they may be seeking to clear themselves the legal way!
On another note. why was this necessary Miguna:
You see Kamau, you can't keep treating Kenyans who are neither Kikuyu nor in President Kibaki's cabal as animals and get away with it all the time forever!
We write in english and not in our mother tongues in this forum, and frankly if you have a view of people based on their mother tongues or which politician you think they support, then you surely MUST be in a minority. There are people here in Jukwaa that write very well without thinking that they will be judged as Luos, Kalenjin or Rendille. But it would appear that in your moment of anger, Kamau has been reduced to an argumentative Gikuyu as opposed to a mad Jukwaa contributor.
Having said that, all I am going to say is that after this last argument, I would say woe unto anyone who calls on you for representation for I think you make a rather poor solicitor. With arguments like these one would probably end up in jail or in debt faster than if he had represented himself.
This is the last you hear from me on this.
Kamale.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 17, 2007 10:18:53 GMT 3
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Post by miguna on Apr 18, 2007 0:19:36 GMT 3
Kamau,
I am not surprised, but disappointed at the incompetence of the Kibaki apologists like you. You mean that you cannot even UNDERSTAND simple English? Context, my brother, is what matters.
But then again, you are off (remember your reference to "disappearence") to join the Arturs at the Coast. Enjoy your escapades when they last...
But this time, my friend, Kenyans have caught up with your petty deceptions. Ruses, subterfuges, repressive acts, etc will not deter us. We are coming...so, run my brother, run and DISAPPEAR completely. [unedited]
MM ==================================
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Post by aeichener on Apr 18, 2007 0:25:46 GMT 3
We are coming...so, run my brother, run and DISAPPEAR completely. The chicken coming home to roost? A.
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Post by miguna on Apr 18, 2007 3:41:21 GMT 3
STANDARD GROUP COMMENT Stop this vendetta against us --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The great tragedy of our day is that the lowest form of propaganda and blackmail — lack of information, misinformation, disinformation, and a contempt for the truth and the reality of most citizens’ lives — has overridden the golden credo that Government exists to do no harm and for the good of all.
Opposition leaders, Mr Kalonzo Musyoka (left), Mr Raila Odinga (extreme right), Mr Martin Shikuku (in glasses behind) and Mr Kiema Kilonzo, in solidarity with the directors of the Standard Group, Mr Paul Melly, Mr Chaacha Mwita (centre) and Mr Paul Wanyagah at the Criminal Investigations Department headquarters on Tuesday night. Picture by Boniface Okendo This is obviously the case in Kenya today when a section of Government withdraws advertising from the Standard Group Limited on the spurious grounds that the media house is adversarial to it. The harm intended is financial incapacitation — a scheme that is doomed to fail.
This is obviously the case when the same elements in Government detain the top management of the same company for a story it ran from verifiable sources instead of investigating the serious allegations contained in the story.
This is obviously the case when State resources are marshalled to intimidate a media house whose only crime is executing its legitimate mandate in the public interest when such resources could make a huge difference in the Mt Elgon region, currently experiencing fatal clashes between our citizenry.
This is obviously the case when those who strive to defend the honour of our nation against the sacrilegious defilement by two miscreants — just two of them — are given a bad name and handed the punishment due to the miscreants.
This is obviously the case when the security situation in the country has degenerated to alarming levels and all the minister in charge can do is read threatening and intimidating statements against a media house that is known to harbour no criminal.
What are the issues here? The issues simply are that the Standard Group Ltd (SGL) has been under consistent attack from a section of Government — repeat a section of Government — for the better part of two years when the country is facing greater challenges.
Not only have our employees been physically assaulted, we have been raided, our property destroyed, ours editors illegally held, our transmission interrupted, our press disabled, our newspapers burnt, our directors harassed and now advertising discontinued.
Why all this? Because of two foreign miscreants without as much as fleeting respect for our country, our leadership or our culture.
Lest we forget, let us refresh our memory. The media exists to report accurately and, yes, responsibly on matters of public interest. The Artur saga is a matter of great public interest. SGL did not create the Artur brothers. SGL did not invite them to Kenya. SGL did not dictate who their handlers were. SGL did not even deport them, if they were indeed deported. The Government knows who did all this.
Our coverage of this issue has been consistent with that of any responsible corporate citizen, particularly a media house. In fact, the Standard considered claims that the Arturs were here and were planning grievous harm frivolous until we were raided by, among others, people witnesses say were of Caucasian origin.
SGL was the first to come to Internal Security Minister Mr John Michuki’s defence when Artur Margaryan ordered him to shut up. Whereas the usually courageous and forthright minister kept quiet to the consternation of many, we stepped forward to defend the honour of our leadership. We were the first to call for the duo’s deportation. We were the first to call for an inquiry into their activities. We were the first to wonder aloud how the duo could threaten to unleash dogs on our Police Commissioner. We have behaved like any proud and responsible corporate citizen should.
Question: Is the love for this great nation restricted to words without actions? Was SGL being irresponsible or anti-Government by defending the honour of the same Government? Who should be under interrogation here, us who have kept Kenyans informed or those who want to muzzle us?
Therefore, and justifiably so, we take great exception to the renewed harassment and intimidation from a section of Government.
Yesterday, an e-mail instruction made available to us clearly states that all Kenya Power and Lighting Company (KPLC) adverts booked in our newspaper and television station were to be cancelled immediately and redirected to other media houses.
Others that have been given similar directives by the Government and immediately acted upon include Moi Teaching and Referral Hospital and parastatals in the ministries of Agriculture, Education and Health.
The question that must be asked is: Is there an attempt to peg advertising to favourable media coverage? What is this supposed to tell those citizens — taxpaying and otherwise — whose only source of information is The Standard and KTN? That they don’t matter or that for their Government to communicate with them, they must consume media of the Government’s choice?
Of course we are alive to the wisdom of Thomas Jefferson, a former President of the United States of America, who once said: "The functionaries of every government have propensities to command at will the liberty and property of their constituents. There is no safe deposit for these but with the people themselves, nor can they be safe with them without information. Where the Press is free, and every man able to read, all is safe…
"The most effectual engines for (pacifying a nation) are the public (news)papers… (A despotic) government always (keeps) a kind of standing army of news writers who, without any regard to truth or to what should be like truth, (invent) and put into the papers whatever might serve the ministers. This suffices with the mass of the people who have no means of distinguishing the false from the true paragraphs of a newspaper."
Whether this holds true in Kenya’s situation despite highly positive opinion polls is for every individual Kenyan to judge.
Anyhow, we wish to reiterate our position: We are an independent media house that publishes content we believe serves compelling public interest and not one that panders to individual egos.
In executing that mandate, we have the resolve of a river that must reach its destination and for this our journalists and managers are well-prepared. We are not enemies of Government and we believe with its intelligence networks, the Government can ascertain that easily.
On Monday, we published a story that led to this state of affairs. We stand by that story and here below repeat some of the questions we raised which remain unanswered:
• Why did a layman, a former policeman named Shedrach Kiruki, and not a legal expert head the commission of inquiry into the activities of the Arturs?
• Why were certain parties, such as SGL, denied the opportunity to testify at the inquiry? After all, the Arturs allegedly led the squad that raided the Group on March 2 last year — a raid captured on CCTV, and which Michuki has termed a Government operation.
• Why was a lawyer who sought to represent the Arturs at the commission not allowed to have his day on the stand?
• The commission’s report, the Government said, would not be made public because it touches on sensitive matters of security. Why is the minister in charge of that security still in office?
• Is there any truth in claims by Mr Raila Odinga, the Lang’ata MP, that these men were mercenaries? Whose dogs of war were they?
• The Arturs drove around in cars bearing Government registration plates. If the plates were faked, why were they not arrested and arraigned? If they were real, how did they get them and for what missions?
• The Arturs had security passes that gave them access to any part of any of Kenya’s airports at any time. Only the very apex of the Kenya Airports Authority pyramid can issue such passes. But at whose behest and for what reason?
• Immigration Minister Gedion Konchellah defended the Arturs saying they were investors. In what sector of the national economy were they interested?
• On whose advice was Konchellah and Government Spokesman Dr Alfred Mutua acting when they told Kenyans that the Arturs were investors on H class visas and work permits? On whose authority were they issuing such statements on people who would later be declared persona non grata?
• On whose advice was Konchellah acting when he authorised the issuance of passports to the two?
• It is on record that it was the National Security Intelligence Service (NSIS) that vetted and cleared the two men to get Kenyan passports! Is this true and at whose behest and for what purpose?
• Did Michuki know that the Arturs had documents making them high-ranking police officers — Deputy Commissioners to be precise? Did the Arturs in that capacity or otherwise lead the assault on SGL on March 2, last year? Did Michuki know that Margaryan was one of his officers? Did he know that the man was tasked with training some of the members of his elite squads? Are Kenyans not damned if he did not know? Are they not damned if he knew?
• It should be recalled that the commission of inquiry heard witnesses recount how the Arturs were helped to stage-manage an arrival at JKIA and how they were allowed to use the VIP Lounge and insult the whole country’s poverty. If this is not a serious enough indictment on those who manage our security and airports, what is? Why are those people who presided over this national disgrace still in office?
Instead of our Internal Security minister sitting on his official chair to put up a show and threaten the media, he should provide answers to these questions or simply have the honour to resign. And Mr Michuki this is not personal vendetta. If you want evidence, consider that the First Lady, Mrs Lucy Kibaki, has found time to visit and commiserate with the victims of Mt Elgon clashes. You have not. Is this personal vendetta?
For his own good reasons, the President has chosen to keep Michuki as his minister in charge of Internal Security. But as a media house, we wish to tell our President that the vast majority of Kenyans have no confidence in this minister who might have been a success in the Transport portfolio but has been an unmitigated failure in Internal Security. Your Excellency, Vox Populi, Vox Dei.
For their solidarity and support, we thank our readers and viewers, the international community, the local media who have rightly realised that this is not a war against the Standard but a war against the entire media, our political leaders both from the Government and Opposition who have rallied to our defence, religious organisations and advertisers who have stood by us despite all.
They have all done well for as Martin Luther King, Jr said: "In the end, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends."
On this we stand.
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