Deputy CJ Nancy Baraza pulls gun at Village Market

[tactician]

News doing the rounds is that the Deputy Chief Justice, Nancy Baraza, caused some heavy drama at the Village Market yesterday.

Apparently, a guard at the Village Market attempted to search/frisk her, which is what all shoppers go through upon entry after the recent al-shabaab bombings & threats.

Nancy objected to the search, asked the female guard if she knew who she (Nancy) was, pulled out a gun from her car and made the guard to kneel down.

The police & judiciary are expected to issue a statement soon

[kamalet]

Jan 4, 2012 10:39:19 GMT 3 tactician said:

News doing the rounds is that the Deputy Chief Justice, Nancy Baraza, caused some heavy drama at the Village Market yesterday.

Apparently, a guard at the Village Market attempted to search/frisk her, which is what all shoppers go through upon entry after the recent al-shabaab bombings & threats.

Nancy objected to the search, asked the female guard if she knew who she (Nancy) was, pulled out a gun from her car and made the guard to kneel down.

The police & judiciary are expected to issue a statement soon

Yes the story has appeared in the Nation today and whilst there is no mention of her pulling out a gun, there is a spurious denial about her carrying a gun by the police during the incident. I think the gun was pulled out by her guard rather than her.......but when all is said and done, this is a very shameful act by the Deputy CJ.

All Kenyans are complying with this instruction and her flaunting her position to the poor guard was very disappointing. I am proud of the female guard who stood her ground and went ahead and reported the threats to her by the deputy CJ to the police. I can only hope that this matter is properly handled and necessary action taken - but least of all an apology by Baraza to the guard would help kill this issue!

[tactician]

Jan 4, 2012 11:51:46 GMT 3 kamalet said:

Jan 4, 2012 10:39:19 GMT 3 tactician said:

News doing the rounds is that the Deputy Chief Justice, Nancy Baraza, caused some heavy drama at the Village Market yesterday.

Apparently, a guard at the Village Market attempted to search/frisk her, which is what all shoppers go through upon entry after the recent al-shabaab bombings & threats.

Nancy objected to the search, asked the female guard if she knew who she (Nancy) was, pulled out a gun from her car and made the guard to kneel down.

The police & judiciary are expected to issue a statement soon

Yes the story has appeared in the Nation today and whilst there is no mention of her pulling out a gun, there is a spurious denial about her carrying a gun by the police during the incident. I think the gun was pulled out by her guard rather than her.......but when all is said and done, this is a very shameful act by the Deputy CJ.

All Kenyans are complying with this instruction and her flaunting her position to the poor guard was very disappointing. I am proud of the female guard who stood her ground and went ahead and reported the threats to her by the deputy CJ to the police. I can only hope that this matter is properly handled and necessary action taken - but least of all an apology by Baraza to the guard would help kill this issue!

Here is the picture of the Star headline:

twitpic.com/82xxn9

Kamalet,

You say an apology is enough? If it was a politician, I would be inclined to agree.

But for a Supreme Court judge?

A judge who has sworn to uphold the katiba and is expected to rule on whether others have infringed on the katiba?

As far as I know, village market is a private premises - and they reserve the right of entry - i.e. if you feel the search is infringing on your rights, you simply walk away. No one has a right to enter private property. And she wasn't being discriminated against as other shoppers were undergoing the same scrutiny.

Then a judge of the supreme court infringes on this right on private property which is enshrined in the bill of rights?

To the extent of pulling out a gun?

How will a judge like this issue an opinion on the behaviour of citizens who infringe on others' rights?

If the story is true, then i would expect nothing short of resignation.

[tactician]

If the story is true:


1) Her license for practising law to should be withdrawn for unethical misconduct

2) She should be charged with misuse of firearm and aggravated assault

3) She should resign from public office

[adongo23456]

Jan 4, 2012 12:35:31 GMT 3 tactician said:

If the story is true:


1) Her license for practising law to should be withdrawn for unethical misconduct

2) She should be charged with misuse of firearm and aggravated assault

3) She should resign from public office

Oh please. You don't even seem to know which story is true. Nancy Baraza did not shoot somebody dead. At least that much we know. It is more likely her body guards pulled a gun. I doubt judges carry guns in their purses. Whichever the case Ms Baraza made a mistake by threatening a person doing her job and threatening public peace.

Ms Baraza has to apologize for that to the guard and to Kenyans who put up with the security brouhaha everyday. If you are waiting for her resignation from the SC for a mere infraction which will likely not end up in being charged with a criminal offense you have a long wait coming. Even if she were to be charged, which will not happen, what happened to people holding public office even if they were charged will crimes against humanity as long as they have not been convicted? Weren't you the guys who were preaching that dubious doctrine?

People like Nancy Baraza are going to have to learn how to hold their big offices with decorum and dignity and no bloated sense of self importance which is acourge in our country already.

On the other hand, if Nancy had puuled a loaded judicial gun as a SC Justice to influence a court case involving her or her interests I would be the first to demand her immediate resignation.

And taking her licence to practice law? Really? For what? If every lawyer or judge in Kenya were to lose their licences for any appearence of bad behaviour there will be no single one left to pratice the noble trade. Let's put things in perspective. This strory is NOT going to have much leg to run on. It is of course an embarrassment to Justice Nancy Baraza and she should be ashamed of herself for that.

[kamalet]

Adongo

Whilst taking a law licence may be pushing it too far, there is absolutely no argument that in her refusal to be searched and threatening the guard, the only power in her head at that time was her position as deputy CJ. If that be the case, then it would be a serious abuse of office.

If the guard has reported the threats to the police, then these must be fully investigated and if a crime was committed, then she must be charged in a court of law. The charges can only be withdrawn through the complainant.

I am however disappointed that you would want her to get away with it as I would have thought that you would be demanding that Tobiko orders proper investigations for justice to be seen to be done! I will try and not venture into reasons why you would not want to follow this route!

[tactician]

Jan 4, 2012 12:54:07 GMT 3 adongo23456 said:

Jan 4, 2012 12:35:31 GMT 3 tactician said:

If the story is true:


1) Her license for practising law to should be withdrawn for unethical misconduct

2) She should be charged with misuse of firearm and aggravated assault

3) She should resign from public office

Oh please. You don't even seem to know which story is true. Nancy Baraza did not shoot somebody dead. At least that much we know. It is more likely her body guards pulled a gun. I doubt judges carry guns in their purses. Whichever the case Ms Baraza made a mistake by threatening a person doing her job and threatening public peace.

Ms Baraza has to apologize for that to the guard and to Kenyans who put up with the security brouhaha everyday. If you are waiting for her resignation from the SC for a mere infraction which will likely not end up in being charged with a criminal offense you have a long wait coming. Even if she were to be charged, which will not happen, what happened to people holding public office even if they were charged will crimes against humanity as long as they have not been convicted? Weren't you the guys who were preaching that dubious doctrine?

People like Nancy Baraza are going to have to learn how to hold their big offices with decorum and dignity and no bloated sense of self importance which is acourge in our country already.

On the other hand, if Nancy had puuled a loaded judicial gun as a SC Justice to influence a court case involving her or her interests I would be the first to demand her immediate resignation.

And taking her licence to practice law? Really? For what? If every lawyer or judge in Kenya were to lose their licences for any appearence of bad behaviour there will be no single one left to pratice the noble trade. Let's put things in perspective. This strory is NOT going to have much leg to run on. It is of course an embarrassment to Justice Nancy Baraza and she should be ashamed of herself for that.

A judge ''threatening a person doing her job and threatening public peace''??

A judge of the Supreme Court??

Is this what we signed up for??

And you expect such a judge to issue a binding opinion on the bill of rights??

[adongo23456]

Kamale,

Did you not just post some info that the police have denied she even had a gun? You said that was from the DN right? I have said exactly what you said namely that she should be ashamed of her behaviour and apologize for it. I told you before I pay little attention to Star News. It is worse than tabloid. I lke their opinion pages because they have credicle writers.

If the matter is under police investigation we will see but it doesn't look lke that is the direction of the story. It looks like the guard stood her ground. She wasn't harmed in the fracas as far as we know and that is why calls for aggravated assault charges etc don't seem to make much sense to me.

I know we all have our reasons (motives) for hating or liking Nancy Baraza but unfortunately the law is hardly interested in our motives. If Nancy Baraza committed a crime of course she should be investigated. If she showed bad judgment and rude bahaviour she owes us and the rest of Kenyans an apology and that is exactly what I think is the case here.

[tactician]

here is the link to the Daily Nation story: www.nation.co.ke/News/Deputy+CJ+in+exchange+with+security+at+Village+Market/-/1056/1299946/-/kk4fopz/-/index.html

on account of this story, i will withdraw my previous comments on this thread and ask that there be a comprehensive investigation of the incident.

Should there be any charges against her, then Nancy should be suspended / suspend herself from duty as the case is being heard.

So that if she's innocent of the charges, she can resume duty. If she's guilty, then proceedings for removal can start. This all depends on what the investigations reveal - maybe there's nothing in these accusations.

Asking her to resign was clearly wrong on my part as she too, like any other citizen, enjoys the presumption of innocence.

I apologise unreservedly for the outburst on my part.

Let the investigations start.

[stranger1in3]

This kind of thing often happens when power goes to the head.we have seen "reformers" of yesteryears
trying to perpetuate the status quo while clinging on the coat of reforms! Shame on them all.As for Baraza,she should be the last person to flaunt her SC positionto intimidate a lowly guard going about her duties.

[Mr Defence]

The Deputy CJ has since
issued the following statement on the matter:

PRESS STATEMENT by Nancy Baraza, Deputy CJ

In the last few months a number of security incidents have occured in and outside my office. As such, threats of violence have been directed at me and I have had to request increased security measures for my office as well as my own personal security.

The unfortunate incident at the Village Market should be viewed in light of the genuine security apprehension on my part. I certainly had no intention of high handedness, arrogance or ill will.

At this point, it would be inappropriate and prejudicial to make further comment on a matter which is under active police investigation. Let us allow for the police investigation in this matter to be complete without interference whatsoever.

Hon. Justice Nancy Baraza
Deputy Chief Justice/ Vice President Supreme Court
Judiciary.

[tactician]

Here is the story from the Star:

A security guard searching clients entering the Village Market shopping mall in Nairobi has lodged a complaint with police over the behaviour of the Deputy Chief Justice Nancy Baraza. Security guard Rebecca Kerubo Morara claims she was intimidated with a pistol by Baraza when she sought to frisk her on New Year's Eve. Baraza accepts there was a dispute but denies threatening the guard with a gun. Morara recorded a statement at Gigiri Police Station in the Occurrence Book reference OB 14/1/1/2012.

According to the report, Baraza drove into the shopping mall after 5pm and parked her car about 50 metres from the point where shoppers are frisked before entering the mall. She then walked past the desk clearly marked Security Check where other customers were queueing.

The police are reviewing CCTV footage of the incident. On the footage a female guard follows Baraza into the mall and speaks to her before she enters a pharmacy about 30 metres from the entrance. Thirty minutes later Baraza reportedly walks back to the security desk where she pauses briefly before walking back to her car. She comes back holding "something" in her hand and is seen confronting the female guard who goes on her knees at around 6.18pm on the CCTV.

Yesterday, Police Commissioner Mathew Iteere said he was aware of the incident and had instructed his officers to investigate. "I cannot give any more details as the officers are yet to brief me," he said. Yesterday, the Deputy CJ denied drawing a gun but described the incident as "unfortunate". "I walked into the chemist in a hurry and I did not realise that this lady was conducting security checks. But instead of talking to me with a little courtesy, she was shouting insults at me even as I tried to calm her down. I explained to her that I was a law-abiding citizen but with armed security detail. I said that if she continued to shout at me, my security detail would intervene and indeed my security intervened. My security had a gun and no one flashed or pointed a gun at her," Baraza said.

"This was a very unfortunate incident and maybe I should have just stuck to my usual security arrangements which demand that I never walk alone. But you know we are all human and sometimes you just want to be ordinary. I have shopped in that chemist for many years," Baraza said. "I was not defying the security arrangements put in place at that place but the lady could not listen to me and was instead shouting and embarrassing me. The allegation that I pinched her nose is wrong. I only touched her face as she tried to grab me," explained Baraza.

Shopping malls and commercial buildings in Nairobi tightened up their security checks last year after al Shabaab threatened revenge attacks for the KDF incursion into southern Somalia. The initial report indicated that the female guard was manning the Village Market entrance with her male colleague when the Deputy CJ and her bodyguard drove in. The female guard was frisking customers when a woman walked quickly past the queue. The guard requested that the woman complies with the search and claimed that she did not recognise Baraza.

According to Morara's statement, the Deputy CJ pinched her nose and told her to "know people" before she walked past her to the pharmacy. On her way back, the Deputy CJ warned that she could order her bodyguard to shoot Morara. Morara claims that Baraza then went to her car and came back brandishing a pistol. She says that she (Morara) went on her knees pleading for her life.

The shaken guard reported the incident to her supervisor after Baraza left. She then reported to Gigiri Police station and was summoned back on Monday afternoon. Gigiri OCS Hassan Bwego yesterday spent the day at Village Market with security officers watching the CCTV footage. He was joined in the afternoon by the OCPD Josek Nasio.

Morara told the Star, "I was frisking customers who were queueing when I noticed a woman walk past without being searched. I followed her to request that she comply with the mandatory search. I did not recognise her and pleaded with her telling her it was mandatory that all clients are searched because of the security situation. She pinched my nose hard and told me to know people and then walked into the pharmacy." Morara said the woman later informed her she was the Deputy Chief Justice.

Morara added, "The lady walked to her car and came back brandishing a pistol threatening to kill me. I went on my knees and pleaded with her to spare my life. I was very scared because my father was shot dead in a similar situation. I don't think I want to work as a guard after that experience".



Source: www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/56334-deputy-cj-in-gun-drama

[chokoraa]

Of course, the poor lady Askari at the Village market DOES NOT SUFFER PSYCHOLOGICAL TRAUMA as a result of a gun being pointed at her, while in the normal course of her duty by a well known Kenyan or the body guard.

She has no personality in her that can be abused, so that in her small zone of authority at the security desk at the village market SOMEONE can just come and shit on her and tell her am somebody and you can do nothing.

Madam Askari, I will advise you, take the little money they've offered you and keep quiet, bacause in their minds you are not a person.

[adongo23456]

tactician & others,

One of the things that continue to kill any hope of a fair and just society in Kenya whether it is about fighting corruption or dealing with the generalized criminality in Kenya among high places is our misguided sense of selective outrage. It makes a mockery of every effort Kenyans make in those two fronts.

In this case, some people who have issues with Nancy Baraza, many of those people were outraged that Baraza and Mutunga got appointed to head the SC would jump at anything that puts her in bad light and the facts be damned. They would demand her immdiate irrevocable punishment even before she is charged with a crime in a court of law.

Like I told you many people including my friend tactician, have argued that people being charged with crimes against humanity should have no problem being chief executives of our country even if they are convicted and are waiting appeal. That is when such dubious concepts suit what they consider their interests whatever they are. Then they read unverified allegations about Nancy Baraza and they want her head in a platter right now. What credibility do we have left?

When it comes to corruption it is the same thing. We hear something has happened with KKV we want Raila in jail yesterday, which is alright if he and his friends are stealing our money.

The same people read about billions being robbed in the ministry of education, special programmes etc they become mute and blind. No interest whatsoever and yet it is the same tax payer money.

Is it wonder that the thieves are smiling all the way to the bank? We have no consistency in our outrage against offenses committed against us and our people. Our first question seems to be : who did it? If it is one of our percieved friends(many of whom don't give a damn about us) then it is fine. If it is the other guys then grab the loud speaker. It is working perfectly for the thieves.

As for the Nancy case I am relieved she is not walking around with a loaded gun pointing at every head. In fact Nancy seems to have not had any gun incident at all. She merely talked to the security guard rudely I suppose. I do not know how that is supposed to cause her trauma as someone is suggesting. Good lord have we become this frail?

But that is bad enough though and the cops are investigating the matter. I see no charges coming out of this but as we said we have enough big heads earning our money and treating everybody else like a piece of dirt. Maina Kiai told me something when he was first appointed to chair the KNCHR commission and I had the privillege to interview him for a piece I was doing in Nairobi.

Ndugu Kiai told me it is one thing to talk about all the ideals of human rights etc but when you get into that big car with body guards, drivers, humongous offices and everybody standing when you pass around the offices, it will take all your humanity and sense of decency to stay humble. I thought he was joking but he was damn right and we have seen the results with shocking frequency even from our most trusted comrades. The learning curve need to be speeded up. We don't have all the time.

But No, we will have to wait to catch Nancy on something else. This wont do and lets hope she learnt her lesson.

[tactician]

Jan 4, 2012 17:27:19 GMT 3 adongo23456 said:

tactician & others,

One of the things that continue to kill any hope of a fair and just society in Kenya whether it is about fighting corruption or dealing with the generalized criminality in Kenya among high places is our misguided sense of selective outrage. It makes a mockery of every effort Kenyans make in those two fronts.

In this case, some people who have issues with Nancy Baraza, many of those people were outraged that Baraza and Mutunga got appointed to head the SC would jump at anything that puts her in bad light and the facts be damned. They would demand her immdiate irrevocable punishment even before she is charged with a crime in a court of law.

Like I told you many people including my friend tactician, have argued that people being charged with crimes against humanity should have no problem being chief executives of our country even if they are convicted and are waiting appeal. That is when such dubious concepts suit what they consider their interests whatever they are. Then they read unverified allegations about Nancy Baraza and they want her head in a platter right now. What credibility do we have left?

When it comes to corruption it is the same thing. We hear something has happened with KKV we want Raila in jail yesterday, which is alright if he and his friends are stealing our money.

The same people read about billions being robbed in the ministry of education, special programmes etc they become mute and blind. No interest whatsoever and yet it is the same tax payer money.

Is it wonder that the thieves are smiling all the way to the bank? We have no consistency in our outrage against offenses committed against us and our people. Our first question seems to be : who did it? If it is one of our percieved friends(many of whom don't give a damn about us) then it is fine. If it is the other guys then grab the loud speaker. It is working perfectly for the thieves.

As for the Nancy case I am relieved she is not walking around with a loaded gun pointing at every head. In fact Nancy seems to have not had any gun incident at all. She merely talked to the security guard rudely I suppose. I do not know how that is supposed to cause her trauma as someone is suggesting. Good lord have we become this frail?

But that is bad enough though and the cops are investigating the matter. I see no charges coming out of this but as we said we have enough big heads earning our money and treating everybody else like a piece of dirt. Maina Kiai told me something when he was first appointed to chair the KNCHR commission and I had the privillege to interview him for a piece I was doing in Nairobi.

Ndugu Kiai told me it is one thing to talk about all the ideals of human rights etc but when you get into that big car with body guards, drivers, humongous offices and everybody standing when you pass around the offices, it will take all your humanity and sense of decency to stay humble. I thought he was joking but he was damn right and we have seen the results with shocking frequency even from our most trusted comrades. The learning curve need to be speeded up. We don't have all the time.

But No, we will have to wait to catch Nancy on something else. This wont do and lets hope she learnt her lesson.

Adongo,

First,

I am not your friend, neither am i your enemy. I am just a fellow blogger on this forum.

Secondly,

you mention about people charged with crimes against humanity standing for president.

all i have stated on this is what the katiba says - that anyone, including a convicted mass murderer can stand for any elective post.

if you have a problem with that, stop targeting me. It was you, me and other kenyans who passed this katiba which allows such people to stand for elective posts - not me.

If you are uncomfortable with this idea, just introduce an amendment to the katiba.

And in case you don't know where the katiba expressly says so, just ask me and I will point it out for you.

Finally,

I admitted my error of judgement regarding my earlier comments on Nancy Baraza and the procedure that should be followed in law. FYI, the procedure for appointees and elective positions is different. Look it up

[job]

Jan 4, 2012 10:39:19 GMT 3 tactician said:

News doing the rounds is that the Deputy Chief Justice, Nancy Baraza, caused some heavy drama at the Village Market yesterday.

Apparently, a guard at the Village Market attempted to search/frisk her, which is what all shoppers go through upon entry after the recent al-shabaab bombings & threats.

Nancy objected to the search, asked the female guard if she knew who she (Nancy) was, pulled out a gun from her car and made the guard to kneel down.

The police & judiciary are expected to issue a statement soon

AND

Jan 4, 2012 12:35:31 GMT 3 tactician said:

If the story is true:


1) Her license for practising law to should be withdrawn for unethical misconduct

2) She should be charged with misuse of firearm and aggravated assault

3) She should resign from public office

This is what one would call over the top and alarmist rumour mongering; misplaced outrage; conclusion-without-facts; followed by unreasonable demands! I'm glad tactician apologized for this misleading thread opener. The Nation clearly reports Police Spokesman confirming that the Deputy Chief Justice does not even carry a gun. The same Nation (not particularly friendly to Nancy Baraza) characterizes this incident as "an exchange of words" with the security guard.



So these manenos ati the DCJ should resign immediately and have her license to practice law withdrawn best illustrate how partisan, divided, irrational, and maliciously vindictive our society has become. It's all about hunting for gotcha moments to folks you don't like! Folks don't even wait for the truth. Any whiff of what might initially appear unethical evokes swift negative and passionate proclamations. Gud lawd!



Besides, now that the guard's superiors urged her into reporting the matter to police (for whatever motives) - I only hope she told the truth coz guess what - the matter is being investigated & CCTVs seem available. In case the guard embellished her story into false allegations, guess who's gonna take the heat for such misadventure? Certainly not the guard's bosses who urged her onto the cops...but the guard herself! The Bill of Rights applies to both the guard and the Judge. Fellows, it's sometimes difficult to turn mole hills into mountains! And as Adongo observes, new Katiba or not, did anyone see equal outrage when Justice GBK Kariuki actually drew out a gun and shot a fellow Kenyan in a road rage incident?

[adongo23456]

Jan 4, 2012 18:03:31 GMT 3 tactician said:

Jan 4, 2012 17:27:19 GMT 3 adongo23456 said:

tactician & others,

One of the things that continue to kill any hope of a fair and just society in Kenya whether it is about fighting corruption or dealing with the generalized criminality in Kenya among high places is our misguided sense of selective outrage. It makes a mockery of every effort Kenyans make in those two fronts.

In this case, some people who have issues with Nancy Baraza, many of those people were outraged that Baraza and Mutunga got appointed to head the SC would jump at anything that puts her in bad light and the facts be damned. They would demand her immdiate irrevocable punishment even before she is charged with a crime in a court of law.

Like I told you many people including my friend tactician, have argued that people being charged with crimes against humanity should have no problem being chief executives of our country even if they are convicted and are waiting appeal. That is when such dubious concepts suit what they consider their interests whatever they are. Then they read unverified allegations about Nancy Baraza and they want her head in a platter right now. What credibility do we have left?

When it comes to corruption it is the same thing. We hear something has happened with KKV we want Raila in jail yesterday, which is alright if he and his friends are stealing our money.

The same people read about billions being robbed in the ministry of education, special programmes etc they become mute and blind. No interest whatsoever and yet it is the same tax payer money.

Is it wonder that the thieves are smiling all the way to the bank? We have no consistency in our outrage against offenses committed against us and our people. Our first question seems to be : who did it? If it is one of our percieved friends(many of whom don't give a damn about us) then it is fine. If it is the other guys then grab the loud speaker. It is working perfectly for the thieves.

As for the Nancy case I am relieved she is not walking around with a loaded gun pointing at every head. In fact Nancy seems to have not had any gun incident at all. She merely talked to the security guard rudely I suppose. I do not know how that is supposed to cause her trauma as someone is suggesting. Good lord have we become this frail?

But that is bad enough though and the cops are investigating the matter. I see no charges coming out of this but as we said we have enough big heads earning our money and treating everybody else like a piece of dirt. Maina Kiai told me something when he was first appointed to chair the KNCHR commission and I had the privillege to interview him for a piece I was doing in Nairobi.

Ndugu Kiai told me it is one thing to talk about all the ideals of human rights etc but when you get into that big car with body guards, drivers, humongous offices and everybody standing when you pass around the offices, it will take all your humanity and sense of decency to stay humble. I thought he was joking but he was damn right and we have seen the results with shocking frequency even from our most trusted comrades. The learning curve need to be speeded up. We don't have all the time.

But No, we will have to wait to catch Nancy on something else. This wont do and lets hope she learnt her lesson.

Adongo,

First,

I am not your friend, neither am i your enemy. I am just a fellow blogger on this forum.

Secondly,

you mention about people charged with crimes against humanity standing for president.

all i have stated on this is what the katiba says - that anyone, including a convicted mass murderer can stand for any elective post.

if you have a problem with that, stop targeting me. It was you, me and other kenyans who passed this katiba which allows such people to stand for elective posts - not me.

If you are uncomfortable with this idea, just introduce an amendment to the katiba.

And in case you don't know where the katiba expressly says so, just ask me and I will point it out for you.

Finally,

I admitted my error of judgement regarding my earlier comments on Nancy Baraza and the procedure that should be followed in law. FYI, the procedure for appointees and elective positions is different. Look it up

tactician,

Don't worry I call everybody my friend including my neighbour's cat which looks really mean, trust me. No harm intended and no need for hyperbole. As long as you are on the surface of this earth I will call you my friend and it looks like I am going to be around for a while and so are you.

Actually it is a figure of speech in the English Language to call so and so my friend. Try following court proceedings between lawyers on opposite sides and even parliamentary proceedings. Sometimes people get too tense and miss the plot by a mile. What else is new?

Why should I target you? I don't even know who the heck you are other than a handle in Jukwaa and obviously a human being. People need to relax sometimes. Sawa?

[tactician]

Jan 4, 2012 18:25:35 GMT 3 adongo23456 said:

Jan 4, 2012 18:03:31 GMT 3 tactician said:

Adongo,

First,

I am not your friend, neither am i your enemy. I am just a fellow blogger on this forum.

Secondly,

you mention about people charged with crimes against humanity standing for president.

all i have stated on this is what the katiba says - that anyone, including a convicted mass murderer can stand for any elective post.

if you have a problem with that, stop targeting me. It was you, me and other kenyans who passed this katiba which allows such people to stand for elective posts - not me.

If you are uncomfortable with this idea, just introduce an amendment to the katiba.

And in case you don't know where the katiba expressly says so, just ask me and I will point it out for you.

Finally,

I admitted my error of judgement regarding my earlier comments on Nancy Baraza and the procedure that should be followed in law. FYI, the procedure for appointees and elective positions is different. Look it up

tactician,

Don't worry I call everybody my friend including my neighbour's cat which looks really mean, trust me. No harm intended and no need for hyperbole. As long as you are on the surface of this earth I will call you my friend and it looks like I am going to be around for a while and so are you.

Actually it is a figure of speech in the English Language to call so and so my friend. Try following court proceedings between lawyers on opposite sides and even parliamentary proceedings. Sometimes people get too tense and miss the plot by a mile. What else is new?

Why should I target you? I don't even know who the heck you are other than a handle in Jukwaa and obviously a human being. People need to relax sometimes. Sawa?

Adongo,

I can smell patronising comments when I see them & I cannot relax without a rejoinder.

I hope you can see my side too, my friend

[tactician]

Jan 4, 2012 18:17:46 GMT 3 job said:

Jan 4, 2012 10:39:19 GMT 3 tactician said:

News doing the rounds is that the Deputy Chief Justice, Nancy Baraza, caused some heavy drama at the Village Market yesterday.

Apparently, a guard at the Village Market attempted to search/frisk her, which is what all shoppers go through upon entry after the recent al-shabaab bombings & threats.

Nancy objected to the search, asked the female guard if she knew who she (Nancy) was, pulled out a gun from her car and made the guard to kneel down.

The police & judiciary are expected to issue a statement soon

AND

Jan 4, 2012 12:35:31 GMT 3 tactician said:

If the story is true:


1) Her license for practising law to should be withdrawn for unethical misconduct

2) She should be charged with misuse of firearm and aggravated assault

3) She should resign from public office

This is what one would call over the top and alarmist rumour mongering; misplaced outrage; conclusion-without-facts; followed by unreasonable demands! I'm glad tactician apologized for this misleading thread opener. The Nation clearly reports Police Spokesman confirming that the Deputy Chief Justice does not even carry a gun. The same Nation (not particularly friendly to Nancy Baraza) characterizes this incident as "an exchange of words" with the security guard.



So these manenos ati the DCJ should resign immediately and have her license to practice law withdrawn best illustrate how partisan, divided, irrational, and maliciously vindictive our society has become. It's all about hunting for gotcha moments to folks you don't like! Folks don't even wait for the truth. Any whiff of what might initially appear unethical evokes swift negative and passionate proclamations. Gud lawd!



Besides, now that the guard's superiors urged her into reporting the matter to police (for whatever motives) - I only hope she told the truth coz guess what - the matter is being investigated & CCTVs seem available. In case the guard embellished her story into false allegations, guess who's gonna take the heat for such misadventure? Certainly not the guard's bosses who urged her onto the cops...but the guard herself! The Bill of Rights applies to both the guard and the Judge. Fellows, it's sometimes difficult to turn mole hills into mountains! And as Adongo observes, new Katiba or not, did anyone see equal outrage when Justice GBK Kariuki actually drew out a gun and shot a fellow Kenyan in a road rage incident?

Job,

Funny how you highlight in large fonts my error of judgement and only point out my retraction in small fonts that is buried within a paragraph.

Then you paint yourself as the neutral person in the discussion.

Remove the log in............

[adongo23456]

Jan 4, 2012 19:35:11 GMT 3 tactician said:

Jan 4, 2012 18:25:35 GMT 3 adongo23456 said:

tactician,

Don't worry I call everybody my friend including my neighbour's cat which looks really mean, trust me. No harm intended and no need for hyperbole. As long as you are on the surface of this earth I will call you my friend and it looks like I am going to be around for a while and so are you.

Actually it is a figure of speech in the English Language to call so and so my friend. Try following court proceedings between lawyers on opposite sides and even parliamentary proceedings. Sometimes people get too tense and miss the plot by a mile. What else is new?

Why should I target you? I don't even know who the heck you are other than a handle in Jukwaa and obviously a human being. People need to relax sometimes. Sawa?

Adongo,

I can smell patronising comments when I see them & I cannot relax without a rejoinder.

I hope you can see my side too, my friend

tactician,

Good. Now we can put that small matter to rest and go back to the big storm in a tea cup about this Nancy Baraza brouhaha. Talking about tea and cups. I was making some tea to keep me warm and all in this minus 10 C weather and then I forgot the tea and now it is dead cold. Hehehehehehe. In kenya I would be calling the tea lady on my executive phone line and ordering a whole kettle of Kericho made.

The wasteful foolishness that goes on in our offices. Office messengers by the bucket, tea lady, gate keeper, driver, watchmen, five secretaries with no work to do, body guards and two hour lunch break. If they ever tried that down here they would bankrupt everything but I digress.

As far as Job's post is concerned what I take to heart is this very brilliant statement that captures the disease that ails our national conciousness as a country that claims to want justice for all.

"So these manenos ati the DCJ should resign immediately and have her license to practice law withdrawn best illustrate how partisan, divided, irrational, and maliciously vindictive our society has become. It's all about hunting for gotcha moments to folks you don't like! Folks don't even wait for the truth. Any whiff of what might initially appear unethical evokes swift negative and passionate proclamations. Gud lawd!"

Straight to the point. That is sharp stuff from the good doc as always and he is dead right. We have a problem with selective and vindcitive outrage and it is not doing our country any good. We all need to take a pose and reflect very seriously on the matter. It is not personal. We are letting the crooks off the hook and defending them with our lives when we think our turf is being encrouched then we scream sore when we think we caught the other side. It is shameless nonsense. The tragedy is they don't give a damn about us whichever side they belong. We need to get a grip really fast.

[jakaswanga]

DAILY NATION
She walked past a female security officer without being screened and the lady followed her to the counter and informed her that she had to be screened.

The deputy CJ allegedly declined and proceeded to the counter to purchase some drugs

When she left the pharmacy, she confronted the guard and asked her why she treated her in such an offhand manner, but the guard allegedly told her off saying that she did not care who she was

It is a small incident, but it is revelatory. I remember Sonko and group overrunning a police officer doing his duty at the airport, on the day UK was leaving for the Hague. Hmm. We called it impunity.

Okay, Kenya is not Israel where they will frisk Bibi if he is entering a synagogue! But nevertheless Baraza's social skills perhaps show Miguna is not your only you are too junior to talk me bigwig!

I would love to hear how the lawyer Baraza proves herself above suspicion, that is why she insists there is no need to search her like the rest! Not to mention the gaurd did not know who she was anyway.

If I was the gaurd's boss I would support her all the way. But maybe Nakumatt has the wrong title deed for the plot of land, and you don't want to mess with a judge! So this girl gets fired for dishonouring an important client!

[mwalimumkuu]

Jan 4, 2012 17:27:19 GMT 3 adongo23456 said:

tactician & others,


In this case, some people who have issues with Nancy Baraza, many of those people were outraged that Baraza and Mutunga got appointed to head the SC would jump at anything that puts her in bad light and the facts be damned. They would demand her immdiate irrevocable punishment even before she is charged with a crime in a court of law.

Odongo, I do not expect you to be defending such indefensible deeds. But I forgot that for some of us, it is interests and friendship that matter more than anything else.

Not surprising that, instead of treating this issue in isolation for its own merits or demerits, you walk back the memory lane to find out who was against Baraza’s and Mutunga’s appointment and what they are saying today so as to qualify your defense of the DCJ’s barbaric actions. It is a big shame my friend.

[adongo23456]

Jan 4, 2012 20:49:01 GMT 3 mwalimumkuu said:

Jan 4, 2012 17:27:19 GMT 3 adongo23456 said:

tactician & others,


In this case, some people who have issues with Nancy Baraza, many of those people were outraged that Baraza and Mutunga got appointed to head the SC would jump at anything that puts her in bad light and the facts be damned. They would demand her immdiate irrevocable punishment even before she is charged with a crime in a court of law.

Odongo, I do not expect you to be defending such indefensible deeds. But I forgot that for some of us, it is interests and friendship that matter more than anything else.

Not surprising that, instead of treating this issue in isolation for its own merits or demerits, you walk back the memory lane to find out who was against Baraza’s and Mutunga’s appointment and what they are saying today so as to qualify your defense of the DCJ’s barbaric actions. It is a big shame my friend.

mwalimumkuu,

Where exactly did I defend the indensible act? Read the thread from the beginning my friend and you will see where I demanded that Nancy Baraza apologises to the security guard in question to and Kenyans for her poor judgement. I stand by those sentiments.

The truth though is that the story was wildly exegerrated by the initiator of the thread, tactician who has since withdrawn his own wild allegations and demands.

Nancy did not pull a gun as the title of this thread suggests. That is now an established fact. Nancy just talked to the security guard after buying her stuff and she was not nice and for that we have condemned her as we should. In fact so far there is no evidence that a gun was pulled on the guard at all. Certainly not inside the mall. Nancy talked to the guard and went to her car.

What I have beef with is this sense of selective outrage where people go ballistics even on romours when they think one of their "enemies" is cornered and the same people go dead silent when others percieved to be their buddies commit crimes. That is an issue we have to address all of us not just tactician. It is good for us to to defend the nation from all crooks regardless of who they are. That is all I am saying.

So what exactly are nancy's "barbaric actions" that you are talking about. I think you need to catch up with the news.

[mzee]

AO,
I think that Kenya is changing for the better.
There was a time when it would have been treason reporting the deputy CJ to the police leave alone trying to frisk her. The security lady who stood her ground and reported the matter could have been thrown behind bars or kicked out of her job. The fact the deputy CJ could apologize for her conduct in public is a step if the right direction and a sign that things are changing.

When I was still a primary school kid, a minister by the name Stanley Oloititip was to come to kisumu for some function. Upon reaching Nyamasaria on the outskirts of the city he was appalled that only a handful of school children lined up along the road to welcome him. He was even more furious when upon reaching Kisumu only one or two schools had assembled a choir to welcome him. He was so enraged that he left for Nairobi immediately without carrying out the function that brought him. My school headmaster (who was a well known choir master) among others was transferred to NEP with immediate effect for failing to honor the waziri.

Now we have a "watchman" reporting a deputy CJ to the police. Bravo to the new katiba. Im loving it. In retrospective, its good that the incident took place.

By the way, why is mwalimukuu calling AO, Odongo

[Deleted]

Jan 4, 2012 13:43:23 GMT 3 tactician said:

here is the link to the Daily Nation story: www.nation.co.ke/News/Deputy+CJ+in+exchange+with+security+at+Village+Market/-/1056/1299946/-/kk4fopz/-/index.html

on account of this story, i will withdraw my previous comments on this thread and ask that there be a comprehensive investigation of the incident.

Should there be any charges against her, then Nancy should be suspended / suspend herself from duty as the case is being heard.

So that if she's innocent of the charges, she can resume duty. If she's guilty, then proceedings for removal can start. This all depends on what the investigations reveal - maybe there's nothing in these accusations.

Asking her to resign was clearly wrong on my part as she too, like any other citizen, enjoys the presumption of innocence.

I apologise unreservedly for the outburst on my part.

Let the investigations start.

tactician
then why haven't you changed the title of this thread which as you now understand is misleading?