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Post by Omwenga on Jan 23, 2012 13:55:38 GMT 3
The ICC Pretrial Chamber must be commended for a well thought out and reasoned decision that, as the court said, has been rendered after careful consideration of the law and facts of these cases along with its implications on the internal stability of our country.
Now that the ICC has spoken, there is no question Uhuru Kenyatta and Francis Muthaura must resign from holding public office because these serious charges against them have been confirmed.
Ruto should not be allowed to run for president either for the same reasons.
Anything less will be in total contravention of Chapter Six of our constitution.
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Post by phil on Jan 23, 2012 13:58:52 GMT 3
There is no question Uhuru Kenyatta and Francis Muthaura must resign from holding public office now that these serious charges against them have been confirmed. Anything less will be the height of impunity in light of Chapter Six of our constitution. Actually, the should have resigned when they were named suspects. |
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Post by toddo on Jan 23, 2012 14:09:38 GMT 3
They should use the pre-planned press conferences they had hoped to use for celebration to announce they are resigning. And we should not hear about them until their cases are completed in the Hague. Its about time we turn a new page in Kenya without these names.
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Post by Omwenga on Jan 23, 2012 14:47:48 GMT 3
They should use the pre-planned press conferences they had hoped to use for celebration to announce they are resigning. And we should not hear about them until their cases are completed in the Hague. Its about time we turn a new page in Kenya without these names. , My suspicion is these people are going to behave as if we are under the old order and as though the decision means nothing. I hope Kenyans resoundingly tell them that's not the case. Phil, needless to say, I completely agree with you. |
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Post by job on Jan 23, 2012 15:11:34 GMT 3
Could we please have the Nancy-Baraza-must-go choir come to recite the "disgraced public officers must go" song under this thread? Wapi consistency?
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Post by destiny on Jan 23, 2012 15:14:43 GMT 3
I somehow feel sorry for Mzee Muthaura. He should have retired at the end of 2007 but Kibaki and Co. urged him on, sasa ona what being nice has brought him? After all the pressure from his demanding job, he suffered some heart problems and had to be flown to SA for treatment and after some few months, he was back at work- being the power behind the throne and a notorious workaholic. Mzee Muthaura must now quit and concentrate on building a credible defence for his trial, if only for his fragile health! He must stop himself being used as some sort of a shield by his so called friends since they are nothing but "manifest nonsense!"  |
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Post by afrigun on Jan 23, 2012 16:08:12 GMT 3
Could we please have the Nancy-Baraza-must-go choir come to recite the "disgraced public officers must go" song under this thread? Wapi consistency? The Government should issue a statemnt reaffirming its commitment to the ICC and to the Constitution, and clearly undertaking to cooperate fully with the ICC in ensuring that the accused (who are not mere suspects any more) shall attend trial and not hide away in Kenya a la BashirSecondly, they accused themselves should issue similar statemnts committing themselves to the rule of law, and the ICC process and resign from public officepending conclusion of the trial |
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Post by afrigun on Jan 23, 2012 16:12:41 GMT 3
kibaki statemnt most disappointing - seems to suggest another attempt at getting the cases referred to trial in Kenya!
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Post by kasuku on Jan 23, 2012 16:12:56 GMT 3
I don't feel sorry for Muthaura, He is an example of Chiefs in kenya who still rule beyond even when in thier grave.
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Post by b6k on Jan 23, 2012 19:53:21 GMT 3
Could we please have the Nancy-Baraza-must-go choir come to recite the "disgraced public officers must go" song under this thread? Wapi consistency? Just like Baraza, Uhuru & Muthaura should resign. They are now officially damaged goods. However, judging from that pointless presidential address as well noted by Afrigun, I foresee these jokers using the "presumption of innocence" touted by judge Ekaterina as an argument for the status quo to prevail. Along with the CIC confirming that the laws that can enforce chapter 6 are yet to be enacted, expect the duo to stay on indefinitely. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 23, 2012 21:38:59 GMT 3
Could we please have the Nancy-Baraza-must-go choir come to recite the "disgraced public officers must go" song under this thread? Wapi consistency? Just like Baraza, Uhuru & Muthaura should resign. They are now officially damaged goods. However, judging from that pointless presidential address as well noted by Afrigun, I foresee these jokers using the "presumption of innocence" touted by judge Ekaterina as an argument for the status quo to prevail. Along with the CIC confirming that the laws that can enforce chapter 6 are yet to be enacted, expect the duo to stay on indefinitely. Looks like I wont get my resignations immidiately. Just like I didn't when they were indicted in the first place. What remains for me to do then, is to deconstruct the mental and legal fallacies which inform these 'gentlemen', that the confirmation troubles they have now, do not warrant exit from public office. Or I can just use common sense: When you are going to mount the kind of defence that will be needed against Ocampo's assaults, you do not want yourself encumbered with another full time demanding job. If the CEO of my company is going to be spending whole working days in conference with his private lawyers about his personal sores, I will instinctively know if he does not step aside, the company will be in nosedive. He will mostly be absent minded on the job. Kenyatta has been a useless finance minister [Kenya has a record of his ' errors' willed or not], and he will now even be more useless, not to mention the possibility of him slipping in and out of drunken depresssion. So I prefer he waste his own time and life, and not mine nor Kenya's. I cannot bring myself to insult Muthaura much. He already looks like a corpse, talks like one and acts like one. Someone please burry that him. Obviously we are out of civilised options to get people voluntarily out of power on integrity. The new constitution does not look to be clearcut enought on these things. [Fuzzy lawyers!] Let me check historical experience to see how it is done the uncivilised way! If not the fear of god, then the fear of loosing ones head must do it. NB. I do not remember omwenga calling for the decapitation of baraza with the same clarity he now does here for the heads of Muthaura and UK! If I am not mistaken he was against Baraza's demise, I will need some non 'sofism' or I will cry wolf at his credibility! Job [of the conspiracy theory on baraza] is of course disqualified from calling for anybody's resignation, however rotten they be! |
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Post by job on Jan 23, 2012 22:37:54 GMT 3
NB. I do not remember omwenga calling for the decapitation of baraza with the same clarity he now does here for the heads of Muthaura and UK! If I am not mistaken he was against Baraza's demise, I will need some non 'sofism' or I will cry wolf at his credibility! Job [of the conspiracy theory on baraza] is of course disqualified from calling for anybody's resignation, however rotten they be! Oh sure, I'm disqualified. That calling remains yours Sir! I noticed your interesting reference to Muthaura as... "already looks like a corpse"...thus not deserving your rebuke! Any word on actual corpses from PEV? |
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Post by job on Jan 23, 2012 22:49:40 GMT 3
The ICC Pretrial Chamber must be commended for a well thought out and reasoned decision that, as the court said, has been rendered after careful consideration of the law and facts of these cases along with its implications on the internal stability of our country. Now that the ICC has spoken, there is no question Uhuru Kenyatta and Francis Muthaura must resign from holding public office because these serious charges against them have been confirmed. Ruto should not be allowed to run for president either for the same reasons. Anything less will be in total contravention of Chapter Six of our constitution. This below is surely what must have rattled the President. He must be digesting this in Uganda right now...as legal gurus paid by taxpayers crunch the legal implications (on him).. 310. In particular, the Chamber is satisfied that there are substantial grounds to
believe that on 26 November 2007 a meeting was held at Nairobi State House
between Mr. Muthaura, Mr. Kenyatta, Mungiki representatives, President Mwai
Kibaki, and others. Is this man seeing a Gbagbo Hague thing coming pole pole towards him? |
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Post by danieldotwaweru on Jan 23, 2012 22:56:20 GMT 3
NB. I do not remember omwenga calling for the decapitation of baraza with the same clarity he now does here for the heads of Muthaura and UK! If I am not mistaken he was against Baraza's demise, I will need some non 'sofism' or I will cry wolf at his credibility! Job [of the conspiracy theory on baraza] is of course disqualified from calling for anybody's resignation, however rotten they be! This is true. However, "envy thou not thy oppressor, and choose none of his ways". The fact that Job, adongo, omwenga et al are committed to bad reasoning in the service of a violent and murderous partisan cause is no reason for us to deny them their due when they occasionally get things righta (lthough they would certainly deny us our due were the positions reversed.) |
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Post by Omwenga on Jan 23, 2012 23:02:14 GMT 3
NB. I do not remember omwenga calling for the decapitation of baraza with the same clarity he now does here for the heads of Muthaura and UK! If I am not mistaken he was against Baraza's demise, I will need some non 'sofism' or I will cry wolf at his credibility! Job [of the conspiracy theory on baraza] is of course disqualified from calling for anybody's resignation, however rotten they be! , I'd be happy to explain in detail why my position in Baraza is consistent with my calling for the resignation or at least stepping aside of UK and Muthaura but that would deviate from this topic. If you have no time to peruse all that I have said about Baraza, just take my word for it that I have been and will always be consistent. |
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Post by Omwenga on Jan 23, 2012 23:04:42 GMT 3
The ICC Pretrial Chamber must be commended for a well thought out and reasoned decision that, as the court said, has been rendered after careful consideration of the law and facts of these cases along with its implications on the internal stability of our country. Now that the ICC has spoken, there is no question Uhuru Kenyatta and Francis Muthaura must resign from holding public office because these serious charges against them have been confirmed. Ruto should not be allowed to run for president either for the same reasons. Anything less will be in total contravention of Chapter Six of our constitution. This below is surely what must have rattled the President. He must be digesting this in Uganda right now...as legal gurus paid by taxpayers crunch the legal implications (on him).. 310. In particular, the Chamber is satisfied that there are substantial grounds to
believe that on 26 November 2007 a meeting was held at Nairobi State House
between Mr. Muthaura, Mr. Kenyatta, Mungiki representatives, President Mwai
Kibaki, and others. Is this man seeing a Gbagbo Hague thing coming pole pole towards him? , Right on! |
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Post by tnk on Jan 23, 2012 23:05:17 GMT 3
This below is surely what must have rattled the President. He must be digesting this in Uganda right now...as legal gurus paid by taxpayers crunch the legal implications (on him).. 310. In particular, the Chamber is satisfied that there are substantial grounds to believe that on 26 November 2007 a meeting was held at Nairobi State House between Mr. Muthaura, Mr. Kenyatta, Mungiki representatives, President Mwai Kibaki, and others. Is this man seeing a Gbagbo Hague thing coming pole pole towards him? wow, and add to that the fact that crimes were committed by the police and if Ali is not responsible then someone else higher up who could bypass the police commissioner must be responsible yeah, it looks like a fire's been lit under someone's seat. the reason githu was brought on board is finally here, time for him (githu) to deliver |
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Post by KOLONEL BRISK on Jan 24, 2012 0:29:22 GMT 3
The December 16, 2008 agreement signed by the two principals on receipt of the Waki Report—the Commission of Inquiry into Post-Election Violence (CIPEV) chaired by Justice Philip Waki that triggered the ICC mechanism—read, in part: “The Parties shall ensure that any person holding public office or any public servant charged with a criminal offence related to 2008 post-election violence shall be suspended from duty until the matter is fully adjudicated upon. The parties shall ensure that any person convicted of a post-election violence offence is barred from holding any public office or contesting any electoral position.”
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Post by Deleted on Jan 24, 2012 0:47:49 GMT 3
The December 16, 2008 agreement signed by the two principals on receipt of the Waki Report—the Commission of Inquiry into Post-Election Violence (CIPEV) chaired by Justice Philip Waki that triggered the ICC mechanism—read, in part: “The Parties shall ensure that any person holding public office or any public servant charged with a criminal offence related to 2008 post-election violence shall be suspended from duty until the matter is fully adjudicated upon. The parties shall ensure that any person convicted of a post-election violence offence is barred from holding any public office or contesting any electoral position.” sure is thorough! I told you punks if you wanna be bad be intelligent about it. Lesson numero uno for Ruto and Uhuru. |
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Post by nereah on Jan 24, 2012 11:32:08 GMT 3
The December 16, 2008 agreement signed by the two principals on receipt of the Waki Report—the Commission of Inquiry into Post-Election Violence (CIPEV) chaired by Justice Philip Waki that triggered the ICC mechanism—read, in part: “The Parties shall ensure that any person holding public office or any public servant charged with a criminal offence related to 2008 post-election violence shall be suspended from duty until the matter is fully adjudicated upon. The parties shall ensure that any person convicted of a post-election violence offence is barred from holding any public office or contesting any electoral position.”
nice seeing you. hope you are back on jukwaa full time. we missed your sobriety and valuable insights on debates. karibu sana ;D |
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Post by nereah on Jan 24, 2012 11:57:11 GMT 3
 a.g.githu muigai who remains on the cross hair of jukwaa's respected member, job. photo courtesy the standard newspaper. githu is saying that uhuru kenyatta and francis muthaura have no cause for resignation and advises that they stay put in office. the good professor of law argues: "The suspects are appearing in their individual capacity. The Government can not speak on their behalf on what to do and what not to do" then he constitutes a ten person committee including dear and lovely sister betty murungi to advise the government on the icc pre-trial chamber ruling! tovuti:alturl.com/im6hti wont speak for betty but i would be greatly surprised if she takes up this day job. but here is the news: alturl.com/ix253 |
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Post by Omwenga on Jan 24, 2012 14:47:16 GMT 3
a.g.githu muigai who remains on the cross hair of jukwaa's respected member, job. photo courtesy the standard newspaper. githu is saying that uhuru kenyatta and francis muthaura have no cause for resignation and advises that they stay put in office. the good professor of law argues: "The suspects are appearing in their individual capacity. The Government can not speak on their behalf on what to do and what not to do" then he constitutes a ten person committee including dear and lovely sister betty murungi to advise the government on the icc pre-trial chamber ruling! tovuti:alturl.com/im6hti wont speak for betty but i would be greatly surprised if she takes up this day job. but here is the news: alturl.com/ix253 Is the AG serious in making an argument that Uhuru and Muthaura cannot be asked to resign because they are at the Hague in in their individual capacity? What changed from this being a personal issue before when the government nonetheless wasted millions of shillings in the so-called shuttle diplomacy to derail the cases at the Hague? Are people free to commit crimes and hold office as long as those crimes are not related to their job functions? This is the most absurd thing the AG has said thus far and is quite frankly an embarrassment coming from an AG. |
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Post by afrigun on Jan 24, 2012 16:19:42 GMT 3
I get disappointed by professor Githu more and more everyday. Article 6 of the constitution is aimed at INDIVIDUALS holding public office, isnt it?
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Post by danieldotwaweru on Jan 24, 2012 16:23:42 GMT 3
a.g.githu muigai who remains on the cross hair of jukwaa's respected member, job. photo courtesy the standard newspaper. githu is saying that uhuru kenyatta and francis muthaura have no cause for resignation and advises that they stay put in office. the good professor of law argues: "The suspects are appearing in their individual capacity. The Government can not speak on their behalf on what to do and what not to do" then he constitutes a ten person committee including dear and lovely sister betty murungi to advise the government on the icc pre-trial chamber ruling! tovuti:alturl.com/im6hti wont speak for betty but i would be greatly surprised if she takes up this day job. but here is the news: alturl.com/ix253 Is the AG serious in making an argument that Uhuru and Muthaura cannot be asked to resign because they are at the Hague in in their individual capacity? What changed from this being a personal issue before when the government nonetheless wasted millions of shillings in the so-called shuttle diplomacy to derail the cases at the Hague? Are people free to commit crimes and hold office as long as those crimes are not related to their job functions? This is the most absurd thing the AG has said thus far and is quite frankly an embarrassment coming from an AG. I guess you missed the fact that right now on the front page of Jukwaa, someone is arguing that Ruto et al had nothing to do with ODM: they were simply acting on their own. I haven't seen Githu Muigai's reasoning, but it looks utterly ridiculous on the face of it. Yours (and a variety of ODMers') claim that Ruto and the network which he headed---which committed these claims and whose hierarchy as presented in the evidence of the Prosecutor's Witness 6 the judges took to be accurate accurate---had nothing to do with ODM is about as ridiculous, since it flies in the face of the very same evidence. |
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Post by akinyi2005 on Jan 24, 2012 16:55:44 GMT 3
"The suspects are appearing in their individual capacity. The Government can not speak on their behalf on what to do and what not to do"
This is the crappiest statement i have read in a long time. Does Githu think Kenyans are stupid?
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