Raila's agents of misinformation!

[dubois]

www.eastandard.net/hm_news/news.php?articleid=1143967955

Dominic Odipo's commentary on the standard newspaper cannot pass without comment. It is a serious case of misinformation laden with bits of victimhood, inferiority complex and tribalism. For example who ever said that a Luo cannot lead? Haven't we all heard these stupid generalisations before? For instance, Kikuyus or Kalenjins will never lead again or Luhyas can only be vice presidents. Why does Odipo find it necessary to include such stupid assertions in his commentary? He actually mentions that such assertions mainly come from 'opponents in Mt Kenya'. I do not remember a day when folks in Mt Kenya sat together and declared a Luo would never be president. Why a learned man, like Odipo, would sink this low is beyond me. If every journalist was to regurgitate such tribal trash on mainstream papers where would it leave us?

Odipo's intentions however become clear when he concludes that:

How come? The answer is two-pronged. The first point is that, for reasons not yet very clear, the majority of the people of western Kenya seem to have quietly accepted to go with Raila when the chips are down. By western Kenya I mean the majority of the people who hail from the the Luo, Luhya, Kisii, Kuria, Kalenjin Teso , Turkana and Maasai communities.

This is beyond a joke. Odipo has outdone Miguna but the sad part is that he is paid to be a fair and informative journalist. He invokes tribal resentment and wishful statistics (talk about steadman) to conclude that Raila is basically the next president. Raila's downfall will be greatly accelerated by such sycophants. Odipo has even dismissed Kalonzo as inconsequential - what nerve! Soon they will claim that Raila can do it by himself. Raila's team seems to be in a monologue, they seem to only see and hear what they are wishing for. A day of bitter disappointment awaits.

[fanyamambo]

Dubois, surely you know that anyone who does not support Raila is either a raging tribalist or agent/beneficiary of the state
Which are you?

[chebii]

We are of Raila come rain come sunshine. Kenyans look Raila bought for democracy in kenya and here you or some don't see. come on luo land block, Kalenjins block rutto will suprise kenyans and baba moi ofcourse is a proffessor, coast 80%, Nep 80% Nbi 65% central 35% Eastern 50%Luhyas 79% since mudavadi has abuse ODM that there is a Dictactor? Who is this Dictactor amin in ODM? Kalonzo has declayed himself that is the only one vs kibaki who is he na he is a coward hiding in a green grass.

[Onyango Oloo]

dubois:

dominic is NOT a luo.
do not the "O" in his last name delude you.

oo
nbi

[job]

Dubois,

Stop working yourself into a lather. Real change is needed in Kenya, to make it a better place for all citizens whether from Mt. Kenya or Wajir. It begins with one first step of firing an obvious failure of a regime headed by Kibaki who has FAILED to unite the diverse nation of Kenya. Unnecessary paranoia will not affect an idea who's time has come.

The nation is yearning for change. It is indeed coming, thanks to a country awakened from empty political rhetoric by a cabal of filthy rich homeboys and grand-pas masquerading as leaders, yet in reality milking the country dry.

From what I know, Dominic Odipo is a Luhya from Western Province who's fully entitled to exercise his rights of freedom of expression, and that of the press. What's all this rage really about? Take his message more seriously than simply fuming at his person. That's simply an accurate account from a journalist and political pundit who's kept his ears on the ground.

This year's election will basically pit two horses, one with a highly visible 5-year conservative record (of excellence in perfecting tribalism, nepotism, grand corruption, Anglo-Fleecing, exclusionalism, favouritism, "Margaryan-ism", wealth and power consolidation etc) and another, a populist with a long record of liberation-struggle and resume of reform credentials. The choice can't be any simpler. If you doubt that, keep this in your annals.

One is at the heart of the nation's reforms clamour, another is a status-quo diehard, one is apathetic and complicit towards corruption, another is a cowboy chaser, one is a tribalist par excellence, another is a nationalist, one is a tired, faded fence-sitter, the other is an energetic goal getter. Let the blitzkrieg begin in earnest. The old tribal trumpcard may in fact be the proverbial sword that would "kill" (politically speaking) those who previously thrived and depended upon it.

I am eargerly awaiting to see Kibaki's line-up of Kenya's Arrogant who-is-whos on a political campaign platform spewing pumbavu lyrics unto pumbavu voters. It will soon be their turn to listen to Kenyans. Wata kaa chini!

When Kibaki started engaging in a self destruction path by isolating himself and his tribal cabal from the rest of the nation, his genuine supporters failed to warn him of potential political consequences. When he chose to tear the Bomas draft apart, he was warned, he failed to listen before PEOPLE WHITEWASHED him at the referendum.

He came back more stubborn, even fine-tuning his impunity & tribal appointments everywhere. Mark these words again, the same PEOPLE will WHITEWASH him back to Othaya.

He will soon meet his waterloo in an election that will hopefully introduce good manners and tolerance into the Kenyan political realm - Will be a very good lesson to learn from. ( Kenya is too small a country, All Kenyans must respect and tolerate each other)

Job.

[adongo12345]

Dubois,

I read the article by Dominic Odipo you have posted on this thread and was actually stunned to find out you made up a lot of stuff which you then respond to. For example, I can't seem to find these allegations from you.

"For instance, Kikuyus or Kalenjins will never lead again or Luhyas can only be vice presidents. Why does Odipo find it necessary to include such stupid assertions in his commentary? He actually mentions that such assertions mainly come from 'opponents in Mt Kenya'."

That is what you said, right? I can't find that anywhere in Odipo's article. Can you help me with that.

The more worrying thing is that either you deliberately chose to twist the message of the article for reasons best known to yourself, or you just misundertood it.

I think the first half of Odipo's piece talks about the concept of Raila as "the peoples President" as opposed to what we have now. People can have their views on that. It is a free country. It is no secret that I for one, consider Raila to be closer to the heartbeat of the nation than Kibaki. Whether that would make him a better president is for Kenyans to decide.

What I know is that I am entiltled to my opinion about Raila and other national leaders. I have been in the battlefield with Raila and I know he is a good soldier and a leader. I welcome those who contest my opinion on Raila or anybody else, to challenge and make me change my mind. That is why we have something called elections. If you want to be the president of the country go to the people and tell why you want to be president. That is what Raila is doing. Raila is able to attract the attention of many Kenyans judging by the numbers that showed up in his recent Nairobi rallies. People don't make that kind of stuff up. That is just the reality on the ground.

The second part of the article by Odipo is where he engages in the tribal math analysis. He is not the first to do this and probably won't be the last.

Now why you pounce on that aspect of Odipo's piece ignoring the context in which it was put I don't know.

I have constantly refused to engage in the debate of who says a Luo cannot be a president or a Kikuyu cannot be this or that. I will uphold that policy. What I know is that Kibaki has brought tribalism in Kenya politics and national leadership to a new level. He was elected by Kenyans from every corner of the land precisely to fight tribalism. Kenyans invested that hope in his leadership. He has let them down badly. He will be held accountable for that by the Kenyan people. That is what I know.

Now is Odipo a tribalist? May be and then again may be not. On the basis of this article, unless I check his other body of work, there is nothing that tells me here I am Odipo the tribalist who supports Raila and I order you to do so otherwise you are a tribalist or a state agent as Fanyamambo seems to imply.

It is frighetening when people who actually claim to fight unfair generalizations themselves serve huge doses of generalization in their menu.

It is true there has been no meeting of "people of Mt. Kenya region", at least none that I know of, to declare that a Luo cannot be a president. But I am equally unaware of any meeting of Raila supporters, unless Fanyamambo can give some updates, in which they declared that anybody who does not support Raila is either a tribalist or a state agent. Now you see why they say you can't have your cake and eat it at the same time. Good thing I don't like cakes.

Speaking about agents, did you notice the irony on the heading of your piece?

"Raila's agents of misinformation."

What does that make me?

Very interesting.

Have a good day,

Adongo

[dubois]

Adongo,

You misunderstood me. Odipo says that: ' Many of Raila’s opponents, especially those from the Mount Kenya region, probably still believe that the Langata MP, and any Luo for that matter, is unelectable'.
My question is; Why does Odipo find it necessary to include such stupid assertions in his commentary?
Is it not comparable to to some other tribal myths that state;For instance, Kikuyus or Kalenjins will never lead again or Luhyas can only be vice presidents

I think Odipo, by including such irrelevant generalizations, is trying to elicit tribal animosity and gain some sympathy for Raila.

Oloo & Job,

Odipo's tribe is not an issue. After all, some of the loudest sycophants in Moi's regime were Kamotho and Nassir. And Job, I agree that Odipo definitely has the right to express himself. However, his fuzzy statistics and backward generalizations do not fit a person who writes for a mainstream paper. How did he come up with this statement for example;

How come? The answer is two-pronged. The first point is that, for reasons not yet very clear, the majority of the people of western Kenya seem to have quietly accepted to go with Raila when the chips are down. By western Kenya I mean the majority of the people who hail from the the Luo, Luhya, Kisii, Kuria, Kalenjin Teso , Turkana and Maasai communities.

Job you say; That's simply an accurate account from a journalist and political pundit who's kept his ears on the ground.

And my answer is; Raila's team seems to be in a monologue, they seem to only see and hear what they are wishing for. A day of bitter disappointment awaits.

[adongo12345]

dubois said:

Adongo,

You misunderstood me. Odipo says that: ' Many of Raila’s opponents, especially those from the Mount Kenya region, probably still believe that the Langata MP, and any Luo for that matter, is unelectable'.
My question is; Why does Odipo find it necessary to include such stupid assertions in his commentary?
Is it not comparable to to some other tribal myths that state;For instance, Kikuyus or Kalenjins will never lead again or Luhyas can only be vice presidents

I think Odipo, by including such irrelevant generalizations, is trying to elicit tribal animosity and gain some sympathy for Raila.

Oloo & Job,

Odipo's tribe is not an issue. After all, some of the loudest sycophants in Moi's regime were Kamotho and Nassir. And Job, I agree that Odipo definitely has the right to express himself. However, his fuzzy statistics and backward generalizations do not fit a person who writes for a mainstream paper. How did he come up with this statement for example;

How come? The answer is two-pronged. The first point is that, for reasons not yet very clear, the majority of the people of western Kenya seem to have quietly accepted to go with Raila when the chips are down. By western Kenya I mean the majority of the people who hail from the the Luo, Luhya, Kisii, Kuria, Kalenjin Teso , Turkana and Maasai communities.

Job you say; That's simply an accurate account from a journalist and political pundit who's kept his ears on the ground.

And my answer is; Raila's team seems to be in a monologue, they seem to only see and hear what they are wishing for. A day of bitter disappointment awaits.

Dubois

I hope you are willing to admit that you actually misquoted Odipo on that part about Kikuyus and Kalenjins can never be president again and about Luhyas only being good for V.P. That is the honourable thing to do. It is one thing to compare what someone says with other things that have been said about the topic, but it is completely another story, actually dishonest, to put words in their mouth and then proceed to attack them on that basis.

I think you should criticize Odipo on what he actually wrote. That is fair game,

As for Raila being in a monologue, I think that is kind of hard when you have to deal with thousands of Kenyans everyday like he does. At some time you have to do the listening, otherwise they will stop listening to you. Kenyans are pretty smart.

From the look of things I think a Raila/ Kibaki contest for the presidency will electrify the nation. I wasn't so convinced before but I am beginning to get a sense that Kenyans could turn to Raila to be their next president. We will see, it is still a long journey. Anything is possible. But a Raila presidency, which I would hope could give Kenyans a true people's president is a reality we should be prepared to live with whether we support Raila or not. We are all Kenyans. The country belongs to all of us. Let's keep it that way.

Adongo

[politicalmaniac]

There will be NO delegates - check
R will be the ODM nominee - check

KM can go dig a hole and dissapear - check OR
KM can support R - check.

Back to KM
What does the little nitwit mean...." I know I will be the nominee and I will win, but if the sloth wins thats ok too...."

What the f@ck?

This guy is already conceding the race?

Well R wins in Dec ........check

Its R's time folks.

[adongo12345]

politicalmaniac said:

There will be NO delegates - check
R will be the ODM nominee - check

KM can go dig a hole and dissapear - check OR
KM can support R - check.

Back to KM
What does the little nitwit mean...." I know I will be the nominee and I will win, but if the sloth wins thats ok too...."

What the f@ck?

This guy is already conceding the race?

Well R wins in Dec ........check

Its R's time folks.

Pmaniac

I don't agree with you. Why shouldn't there be a delegates system? Who made that decision and when? I think it is just wishful thinking on your part.

My position has always been that whatever system of choosing their presidential candidate, the ODM agrees on, it has to be democratic and transparent. They don't have a choice. It is the right thing to do.

I thought for example the ODM was very organized the way they elected their Magarini candidate. The same should apply to the presidential candidates. We cannot afford the nonsense of so and so Tosha. That is what destroyed Kanu when Moi thought his word was law. Uhuru could still have been their candidate.

The other thing is that the ODM have to see beyond removing Kibaki. Otherwise they will become an anti-Kibaki movement which exists for the sole purpose of removing Kibaki. What happens after they remove Kibaki? I like their 12 point post Kibaki game plan, but they still need to be cohesive as a movement to achieve their goals, hence the need to build solid democratic foundation for the party.

The other possibility is that Kibaki could very well win the elections. That is a possibility ODM supporters have to be prepared to live with.

The odds are Kibaki could win the presidency and loose the house to the ODM which could complicate matters for the president and the ODM. Under the new rules, Kibaki would have no chance in bribing or poaching M.P's so he would have to be a minority leader meaning he will have to compromise with the ODM in shaping the national agenda. For that to happen and to benefit Kenyans, the ODM would have to be a cohesive body, not a group of individuals whose job is to remove Kibaki from power.

Flexibility is very important in politics. As for KM, I think he is okay. He belongs in the ODM. He is one of the founding members. He thinks he can be the ODM candidate, let the members decide using whataver mechanism.

Adongo.

[politicalmaniac]

AO
Who will the delegates be? 2000/constituency just how the heck does one go about choosing these guys and gals?
And who will pay for the convocation?

Its just a matter of practicality.
The results of nomination by delegates will most like mirror that by consensus.
You know and I know who the best nominee to challenge the baboon is.

Once ODM get to power they can then sort the party nomination rules and mechanisms, establish a roll etc.