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Post by kamalet on Apr 2, 2012 8:25:43 GMT 3
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Post by nereah on Apr 2, 2012 12:31:06 GMT 3
kamale,  what mzee kibaki's media handlers are engaging in here is nothing but sophistry. ok lets cut to the chase with some questions: what do we know about mzee's ideology and especially on foreign relations? is it premised on the constitution of our beloved country, kenya or the narrow and self-serving political and moral philosophy of his party, dp and pnu? in attempting to answer these questions, lets defer to jukwaa and recall those exhaustive and stimulating debates about kenya's supposed foreign policy and the tangent from which mzee kibaki mischievously claim to execute them. think about the phasing out of the 14 seater matatu and the unspoken turf war pitting japan and china and america and european vehicle manufacturers? to digress.....did you know, for instance,that the chinese are the ones constructing a catholic church facility inside the sacred compound of nairobi holy family basilica? whats amusing is that because they don't believe in God and Jesus, they initially engaged christian labourers on worship sundays until it became expedient to halt work for hours. we in odm take this statement by mzee kibaki as not only disparaging but an affront to our constitution.with such reckless indulgence,he commits kenya into costly engagements and pursuits that in the long term are inimical to our strategic advancement. mzee is best reminded that he never won the last election( yes he didn't) and has no moral mandate or otherwise to speak for the government of kenya on such a weighty issue. fine, he is not seeking re-election and may be emboldened by the oil discovery to leverage on kenya's influence as his friend and business ally, bashir does up north,but again, this is kenya and we are distinctive in our formation and constitutional imperatives. the geo-political realities and east african affinity that he goes to the roof top about are to the best of my knowledge mirage if not charade. the contradictions are evident in kenya's consumption and spending habits -from defense and energy contracts to trade and infrastructure deals. jukwaa's brilliant minds have mopped our floor with these stinking deals(see jukwaa archives) . mzee mentions east africa which he proudly states accounts for 50 per cent of his global travels,but, what does he have to show for these indulgence? what justification does mzee give for kenya spending over shilling 1.5 billion annually on uganda when we can make education affordable, accessible and of quality to thousands of kenyans students who flock to uganda universities. my sister mrembo ;D reminds me a while ago,the island below is still firmly on the power grip of museveni and latest reporte indicate that kenyan fishermen are suffering heavy loses owing to museveni's ban on kenyan fishermen who have been paying hm revenue!  spare me the talk about kenyan companies like equity and nation media group and kcb and sentium and their listings in bourses in dar-es-salaam,kigali,juba and kampala. i will wear you down with stats to prove that kenya under this kibaki philosophy of spreading wings in east africa is more of exporting kenyans jobs and increasing bottom line of the rich and mighty. has kibaki used his lever as the regional block chair to actualize the dream of kisumu as regional headquarters of the community? you tell me about those strategic realities that are the imperatives driving us to abandon traditional trade partners for japan and china and i will finger hypocrisy.it may even be embarrassing to discover that some of the so chinese firms as allegedly claimed with the digital broadcast licensing deal, are locally owned but registered in china(note i don't have evidence for this and therefore cant vouch for the authenticity of the claim as reported in business daily at the height of the digital broadcast deal controversy) mzee kibaki is lucky that kenyans have not woken up to the reality of the costly engagement in somalia and with omar bashir's rouge regime. he is lucky that the critical mass,media and parliament have not been sufficiently inspired to interrogate kenya's engagement in the east africa community trading block and especially the ideological fault-lines and economic fissures between key members. in one of the threads talking about kibaki's foreign policy we reflected on some argument that mzee's legacy would after all defined on his foreign relation policy model. i think this was flushed down the sewer with the realities that keeps contradicting and exposing him to the west.case in point is the recent london conference on somalia and his determination to wrestle european and american multinational corporations from lucrative dealings in kenya. mzee should let my type know if kenya is still keen on retaining its standing as the host of the unep hqs and how such slap on the west who calls the shot in un,advances kenya's cause. i am saying that mzee kibaki should better give us another line.this one sounds like a broken record.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 3, 2012 13:42:20 GMT 3
Nereah I did not know you for a troll. But you have actually disappointed as you sometimes do have quite intelligible stuff that you post here. This one must have caught you on one of those days  Kibaki in his statement allegedly responding to the allegations of being inacessible to western diplomats. The point of course is that as president of Kenya (he actually is and won it!) he has the strategic view of where he would like Kenya to be. If you look for this weeks edition of the East African there is an article of what Turkey is doing in Somalia and the Turks actually say they borrow the model from the Chinese engagement with Africa. The argument is very simple, you cannot eradicate poverty if you do not have infrastructure. The East has been investing in infrastructure in Kenya and this has helped grow the country's economy. For instance, if you take the 3 by-passes that are being constructed around Nairobi, they have been very instrumental in opening up investment around the roads and that is why Kibaki would easily get help from the chinese as opposed to from the west where the argument is a lot different. The west will worry about funding things like human rights and provide food aid which unfortunately does little in economic growth! So if Kibaki's strategic view of Kenya is East Africa, China and Japan then it is serving the country well from an infrastructure point of view as well as job creation. It is infrastructure that will fuel the development of Kenya and being one that spends considerable periods out of Kenya I can tell you that in countries like SA there is continous work to improve on infrastructure. As for exporting jobs, I would be interested in seeing your stats, but I can tell you that we do have a very literate society in Kenya and also a very good work ethic. Everytime I am in SA for instance I meet Kenyans holding very high positions in the financial sector for some of the best know international names. I see many international corporations there still being headed by foreigners but I am a lot more proud when I look at Barclays or Standard chartered or CitiBank that are actually headed by Kenyans. We export jobs because we have the capacity to do so! I am sure you would jump on to a case such as that of doctors fleeing the country, but I can tell you civil servants have had a better working environment in the last 10 years than they ever did in the last 35 years! There is a lot more to be done and expansion of the health insurance system (if well done though I cannot trust a sickly health minister to deliver it) is one way of ensuring we can retain these resources. So if the Americans, the Brits and the French want to come to the party, then they need to see the direction Kenya under Kibaki is taking - which sadly will be the reality for the next president of Kenya! Kenyans have known what it means to come from a system of disorder, order and then disorder - and you can look at the Nairobi city where from total collapse, John Gakuo changed the face of Nairobi before it degenerated under the watchful eye of ODM adherent Phillip Kisia. |
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Post by furaha on Apr 3, 2012 14:06:28 GMT 3
There is absolutely nothing new about President Kibaki not meeting with 'western' diplomats or, for that matter, any others.
This has been the case ever since he took office in his first term. Put it down to whatever you want whether is is aloofness, tiredness or a wish to delegate to his prime minister and ministers. Many ambassadors meet the President only once, when they present their credentials. Even for the ambassador of the US and other major powers from East, West and South, it has always been difficult to meet the nation's boss.
I wonder why so much is being made of this now... Perhaps because it suits the interests of the many spinners around these days?
Furaha
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Post by kamalet on Apr 3, 2012 14:13:14 GMT 3
There is absolutely nothing new about President Kibaki not meeting with 'western' diplomats or, for that matter, any others. This has been the case ever since he took office in his first term. Put it down to whatever you want whether is is aloofness, tiredness or a wish to delegate to his prime minister and ministers. Many ambassadors meet the President only once, when they present their credentials. Even for the ambassador of the US and other major powers from East, West and South, it has always been difficult to meet the nation's boss. I wonder why so much is being made of this now... Perhaps because it suits the interests of the many spinners around these days? Furaha Mmmmmmm.....and how many times have we heard Obama or Sarkhozy meeting with Kenyan envoys or don't they get to meet some minion at the foreign ministry? |
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Post by furaha on Apr 3, 2012 16:36:18 GMT 3
There is absolutely nothing new about President Kibaki not meeting with 'western' diplomats or, for that matter, any others. This has been the case ever since he took office in his first term. Put it down to whatever you want whether is is aloofness, tiredness or a wish to delegate to his prime minister and ministers. Many ambassadors meet the President only once, when they present their credentials. Even for the ambassador of the US and other major powers from East, West and South, it has always been difficult to meet the nation's boss. I wonder why so much is being made of this now... Perhaps because it suits the interests of the many spinners around these days? Furaha Mmmmmmm.....and how many times have we heard Obama or Sarkhozy meeting with Kenyan envoys or don't they get to meet some minion at the foreign ministry? kamalet, You missed the point... The suggestion was that there has been a shift in Kibaki's policy and that he is no longer receiving envoys from certain parts of the world. That suggestion was false. He hardly ever met them before this 'analysis' started to do the rounds. So comparisons with Sarkozy and Obama are false and you know that. We were being told that there was a significant change in Kibaki's practice while there is none. Furaha |
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Post by job on Apr 3, 2012 17:19:42 GMT 3
Hiding a heavily sedated, confused President from important meetings is not policy. It is just common sense, so quit this attempt at rewriting history - ati policy shift. There is neither a shift, nor any policy. Kibaki has always been hidden from Western dignitaries, period! And whenever he meets them (rarely), the results speak for themselves. Kibaki was too sedated at the London Conference he couldn't even attend side-meetings...and the plenary session in which he participated revealed nothing but incoherrence and lapses in short-term memory. |
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Post by kamalet on Apr 5, 2012 9:52:59 GMT 3
Hiding a heavily sedated, confused President from important meetings is not policy. It is just common sense, so quit this attempt at rewriting history - ati policy shift. There is neither a shift, nor any policy. Kibaki has always been hidden from Western dignitaries, period! And whenever he meets them (rarely), the results speak for themselves. Kibaki was too sedated at the London Conference he couldn't even attend side-meetings...and the plenary session in which he participated revealed nothing but incoherrence and lapses in short-term memory. Job Does it not embarrass you when you lie as you just did? When was Kibaki sedated and hidden away from policy meetings? Was it the same sedated Kibaki who walked 12 of the 18 holes at Muthaiga for the Kenya Open Golf final day? In the UK there was even a photo-op when Kibaki met with Cameron as well as a full record of his speech which you would have perhaps suggested was read by his double! www.statehousekenya.go.ke/ |
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Post by samson on Apr 5, 2012 20:45:19 GMT 3
The intrest of kenya should always come first. We should not try to please east or west. We need to relate with those from who we gain something tangible. We all now,ambs have been sent here to safegd the intreset of there country.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 8, 2012 10:23:37 GMT 3
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Post by furaha on Apr 8, 2012 13:35:15 GMT 3
Well, well. One would think that a journalist of Holman's stature would do better than this. He has not researched his topic properly. And of course The Nation takes him on board lock, stock and barrel. As i mentioned earlier on in this thread Quote There is absolutely nothing new about President Kibaki not meeting with 'western' diplomats or, for that matter, any others. This has been the case ever since he took office in his first term. Put it down to whatever you want whether is is aloofness, tiredness or a wish to delegate to his prime minister and ministers. Many ambassadors meet the President only once, when they present their credentials. Even for the ambassador of the US and other major powers from East, West and South, it has always been difficult to meet the nation's boss. I wonder why so much is being made of this now... Perhaps because it suits the interests of the many spinners around these days? Unquote And not even Kamalet contested the truth of the above... And let me be clear. Open competition for business is very welcome in Kenya. All Kenyans will benefit from openness and transparency in the award of contracts. Quality and price should be the deciding factor. Unfortunately we seem to be futher and further away from that goal. And let's not forget that this is a rather dangerous season in which suitors are begging for Kenya's hand. Election time is approaching. Do you remember the 2007 stories about the likes of Bashir and Qhadaffi pouring money into election coffers in exchange for promises and privileges? Is that the way we want to go this time around? Let's keep pressing for transparency please, and let's start with the new oil finds. Furaha |
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 8, 2012 14:12:25 GMT 3
Kamale, You like your in-law Raila are like those european diplomats stuck in the 'old relations'! I say this since you have not hastened to join me in acknowledging the emerged president, Uhuru Kenyatta, younger and much more robust, even if foolishly because he has no economic idea/plan to dislodge Kenya from the neo-colonial orbit of the West. But given he believes 'they' want to fix him with this ICC thing on behalf of his brother Raila, his middle fingering the Europeans can be excused as an adolescent rage at a stern parent favouring a sibling. Kibaki is of course a medical if not mental case, dead and burried decision wise, even if he still ocassionally can be paraded around like Umaru Yar'Adua in his last deathbed days. But presenting him to foreigners is an embarassment which must be selectively exercised. But you must wonder if it would not be more prudent for President Uhuru to arrange a secret meeting with the Americans and persuade them to solve his little problem at the Hague, in exchange for curtailing chinese influence. You saw Raila go for auditions in Brussels last month. Remember Europe is weak, but America is not. Give President Uhuru's court better advice Kamale please, and do not let gikuyu equivalents of Midiwo lead him blindfolded to the slaughter house! ========= And a footnote message to Gichangi, the chief of intelligence. Do something intelligent for once sir! You are in the best position to know the signficance of european security arrangements propping up the Kenyan army in Somalia. And you know how the hearts of men work in these things, --assuage the riled european nerves behind the scenes, so that they do not betray the Kenyans in Somalia, and we reap our heap of bodybags like the Burundians last year! Sir, in real life, other people do not fund, feed and keep your army in life, and you go about insulting them in public. You will get payback. Tell that to rogue president Uhuru. Do not let him defeat other national interests in his youthful wrecklessness.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 9, 2012 12:02:15 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
President Uhuru may want to run to the US to put in a good word for him, but you can only do this from a position that gives you the entitlement. If you do not have that entitlement the US has no business listening to you!
Just look at how a US quesling of a president has his tongue tied when El Bashir makes an appearance at the Baghdad summit of the Arab League and no effort at arresting him is made nor a word from Ocampo and company reporting Iraq to the UN as was the case of the 'minor' transgression by Kenya two years ago! The League was to make important pronouncements on Syria and hopefully Iran so it makes sense for the US to ignore such a presence - entitlement on the part of Iraq?
The West 'appearing' to help in the Somalia situation is nothing more than vested interest that can help reclaim their lost territory from the east - read China! A peaceful Somalia presents opportunities for these guys in terms of its know resources - so Uhuru has really no role here unless he is able to create an entitlement out of the situation.
You should perhaps know that Gichangi will always align his intel liaisons with the political aspirations of his political masters. If the west want to get into the party, then the process is normally quite clear and that is done via making yourself relevant to the politics of the day. As the writer of the article acknowledges even the next president will be faced by the political and economic competition between the east and the west!
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Post by kamalet on Apr 11, 2012 23:20:29 GMT 3
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Post by nowayhaha on Apr 15, 2012 10:34:00 GMT 3
standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000056307&cid=4¤tPage=3West now cries foul as Kibaki courts the East When President Kibaki announced Kenya had struck oil in Turkana last month, citizens were glad the discovery would bring an end to poverty. But miles away in Europe, a different kind of elation took place: Media houses chest-thumped that it was a home-grown company that had struck the oil first, beating competitors from other countries like China. Chinese President Hu Jintao on a visit to Nairobi. [PHOTO: FILE/STANDARD] The respected Telegraph newspaper of UK screamed: "A British company has announced it has struck oil in Kenya for the first time, beating rivals, including China, in the race to strike crude." Oil discovery But it would later emerge that Tullow Oil had used Chinese technology that made it possible to locate the oil deposits in Ngamia 1, effectively handing the bragging rights to the Asian country. This best captured the silent rivalry between Western countries and China in the race to win or retain developing countries, only second to the cold war era, pitting the US against former Soviet Union. In Kenya, the West’s frustrations were highlighted a few weeks ago by a public outburst by French ambassador Etienne de Poncins that President Kibaki had become extremely difficult to reach. While such complaint would have ordinarily attracted an outright apology from State House, President Kibaki instead appeared to savour the moment, seeking to explain why Kenya had shunned the West in favour of East. "The President has been strategic and has not been unreachable to any nation that works for the good of the Kenyan people and appreciates the role played by external partners in endeavours to uplift the lives of Kenyans and citizens of neighbouring states," read a dispatch from the PPS. Diplomatic policy It pointed out that the President’s diplomatic policy was being guided by Kenya’s present view of changing geo-political dynamics, which entail an understanding of the West and East convergence on world affairs in an ever-changing environment. "China and Japan have emerged as strategic development partners of Kenya especially in the area of infrastructure development that has been a key pillar of the President’s agenda," the PPS statement added. But while the war existed only in media analysis, the move by the Western diplomats and Kibaki’s administration to engage in a public sparring is raising eyebrows. Diplomat Maria Nzomo gives props to Kibaki for making the Western envoys wait like everyone else. "This is long overdue and the President is in order. We have been very generous giving them preferential treatment," charged Prof Nzomo. Coming hot in the heels of Kibaki’s admission of giving Europe a cold shoulder is Roads Minister Franklin Bett’s sentiments on a local TV station on Tuesday that the Government had opted to deal with China due to the bureaucratic nature of obtaining funds from the West. "Like the southern bypass in Nairobi, we took 10 years to discuss with the World Bank and nothing was forthcoming. When we went to the Chinese, the discussions lasted just three months and today, they are already on the ground," said the Roads minister. UK invitation And on Wednesday, Foreign Affairs Minister Sam Ongeri revealed how President Kibaki declined an invitation to visit the United Kingdom two years ago. He said Kibaki had been invited by former British Prime Minister Gordon Brown for talks at No 10 Downing Street and was scheduled to also meet Queen Elizabeth II at Buckingham Palace but Kenyan authorities declined to accept the invitation after concluding it was "not appropriate to execute the visit". "The President was invited by former Prime Minister Gordon Brown. The invitation was for March 23 and 24, 2010, and it included a call on the Queen and meetings with Brown," disclosed Prof Ongeri when he appeared before the Parliamentary Defence and Foreign Relations Committee on Wednesday. But he said the full reasons for Kibaki’s refusal to meet the British could not be said "in the full flare of (media) cameras." The West has seen its influence politically and economically in Kenya, and by extension in Africa, wane by the day. Nzomo argues the Western diplomats have been breaking existing procedures, which explains their frustrations when Kenya finally decides to uphold them. "Let them queue up. I have been a diplomat in more than four countries and I have never gone to a State House without an appointment. I have also never gone to the media criticising any of their policies," added Nzomo. According to her, things went haywire for the diplomats the day Kenya diversified her relations to incorporate not just China but also regional integration. Traditional allies Data from the Kenya Investment Authority showed that China, South Africa, India and South Korea were the top five sources of foreign direct investment for Kenya in 2010, beating the traditional toppers such like UK, Germany and the Netherlands. China pumped a total investment of Sh40.2 billion into Kenya that year, while developed economies, among them, Germany, Canada, Israel and Italy invested less than Sh500 million in Kenya last year. In practical terms, Foton Motors is currently constructing a Sh1.2 billion assembly plant along Mombasa Road, while Chery Automobiles has mooted plans to build a assembly plant in the country. On the continental front, trade between China and Africa surpassed Sh10 trillion ($120 billion) in 2010. And in the previous two years, China had given more loans to poor countries, mainly in Africa, than the World Bank. The Heritage Foundation, an American think-tank, estimated that in 2005-10 about 14 per cent of China’s investment abroad found its way to sub-Saharan Africa.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 15, 2012 10:56:50 GMT 3
The west cannot hope to have an influence that is not backed by any action that aligns itself with the aspirations of the government in power.
The Chinese have perhaps changed the way the third world deals with the first world and whilst it may in the long run be detrimental to the third world countries kow towing with the East, as in everything else in life, the here and the now seem most important.
...and for those interested, this behaviour was the brain child of Tuju!
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 15, 2012 11:48:07 GMT 3
The west cannot hope to have an influence that is not backed by any action that aligns itself with the aspirations of the government in power. The Chinese have perhaps changed the way the third world deals with the first world and whilst it may in the long run be detrimental to the third world countries kow towing with the East, as in everything else in life, the here and the now seem most important. ...and for those interested, this behaviour was the brain child of Tuju! Kamalet, While I am with President Uhuru in this look east policy, I am angry with him for not technically putting into place what he preaches. When he was finance minister, it was the IMF he invited to write his financial bills. That is plain balloney! And have you seen the figures Githae is crawling on his fours licking Christine Lagarde's toe nails for? You do not do that and again claim in public you are too busy to meet the French ambassador! It is these simple jars in etiquette, and incomprehension of real politic, that makes me disqualify the new emerged 'occupant' of power! And, Kamalet, I have not seen alternative thinking to the position of the Kenyan army in Somalia, vis-a-vis the new realities in Nairobi. Our army is wholly dependent on Western powers in Somalia. Uhuru better sort this contradiction out, before letting out public statements about a changed world! And if you inform yourself of the going ons around the coast on the route to the border with Somalia, white men kidnap with impunity villagers with the total collusion of our security forces. These white men are western security agents. That too, must be adressed when you seriously look east! |
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Post by kamalet on Apr 15, 2012 12:11:25 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
Vested Interests....vested interests my brother!
Listen to the cries of Franklin Bett on the funding of the Southern Bypass....the chinese see opportunity where they fund the road, build the road (of course through chinese companies) and Kenya will repay the loan for money that was paid to the chinese!
Now if you look at Somalia, the chinese face no terrorism fears out of somalia as the west (read UK/US) does. So yes they will join hands with KDF for no other reason that if Kenya can help neutralise terrorism cells in the region, it serves them well and none of their boys in uniform need die or get embarrased by having their soldiers being dragged in the streets of Afmadow.
But make no mistake, if peace returns to Somalia, the chinese will be there making more money than the west....unless Turkey can hack it early and better!
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Post by roughrider on Apr 15, 2012 15:56:32 GMT 3
It is laughable for a poor country like Kenya to imagine that its president can behave like the president of the US or any other economically, militarily or technologically advanced countries. Tunaringa and yet we have nothing and are generally exposed. It exposes hubris and intellectual deficiency that is astonishing. We need to engage in global geopolitics and diplomacy more intelligently. Engaging China and Japan need not mean contemptuous insults at everybody else!
First there is really no ‘look east’ white paper that defines our foreign policy; what we have is really a corrupt system of doing deals (e.g. mineral prospecting, single sourced supply deals) with China in exchange for campaign finance, road construction etc… it was in this spirit that Kibaki could make the public invitation to the Chinese to ‘build the Lamu port’ in complete contravention of public ethics and procurement policies. Tendering, technical and financial assessment be damned, says Kibaki.
But this recent statement by Kibaki claiming that his decision to snub western diplomats was based on ‘strategic policy’ is even more alarming and reckless if you consider the potential problems when those countries interpret it to mean they should attempt to install somebody whose strategy will be more friendly. This used to be the staple of the cold war era imperialism and I am not surprising that it is starting to rear its ugly head afresh. The destruction of the Zimbabwean and Malawian economies were products of kibaki-like idiocy. A wise leader must always be acutely aware of the geopolitical forces that surround his country.
I used to be less opinionated about this. But when Kenya was burning in 2008, it became clear that China was only a fair weather friend, unwilling to say the difficult things that needed to be said at that point. I have also watched as Kibaki grabbed the begging bowl every couple of years when we had our regular droughts and Kenyans started to starve. I am sure this 'strategic policy' will come back to haunt us when the rains fail as they are expected to. Or perhaps the Chinese will feed us.
I think the ICC issues, corruption and impunity are fueling Kibaki’s irresponsible behavior. Not logical analysis.
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Post by furaha on Apr 15, 2012 17:24:03 GMT 3
First there is really no ‘look east’ white paper that defines our foreign policy; what we have is really a corrupt system of doing deals (e.g. mineral prospecting, single sourced supply deals) with China in exchange for campaign finance, road construction etc… it was in this spirit that Kibaki could make the public invitation to the Chinese to ‘build the Lamu port’ in complete contravention of public ethics and procurement policies. Tendering, technical and financial assessment be damned, says Kibaki. But this recent statement by Kibaki claiming that his decision to snub western diplomats was based on ‘strategic policy’ is even more alarming and reckless if you consider the potential problems when those countries interpret it to mean they should attempt to install somebody whose strategy will be more friendly. This used to be the staple of the cold war era imperialism and I am not surprising that it is starting to rear its ugly head afresh. The destruction of the Zimbabwean and Malawian economies were products of kibaki-like idiocy. A wise leader must always be acutely aware of the geopolitical forces that surround his country. I think the ICC issues, corruption and impunity are fueling Kibaki’s irresponsible behavior. Not logical analysis. I agree. this is reminiscent of cold war approaches. Kenyans would be best off with a government that preaches transparency in major investment and economic deals, showing us that they are going for the best value at the best price. Such openness has not been forthcoming in recent years. Greater competition for investment in Kenya is much needed and welcome. That is why Kenya would be doing itself a disservice if it were to focus only on the East. By stating that it will focus on the East it actually encourages China and others to come up with uncompetitive bids. And it discourages those from other nations to even bother tendering. Tendering is expensive and if a company or a government knows that it is unlikely to be given serious consideration, why even bother to put in a bid? I feel some sympathy for Bett who complains about the long lead-times for projects undertaken by the World Bank and others. In a truly competitive environment lead-time should be one of the factors given due consideration when deciding on various options. But let's not forget that sometimes these lead-times are lengthy due to necessary studies like environmental impact assessments. Let's try to cut the lead-times but not by cutting corners that will come back to haunt us later on. It is not as simple as Bett makes it sound. And lastly, diplomacy - in part - is the art of keeping good relations with all countries that one has diplomatic ties with. It seems State House has a thing or two to learn here. Do not estrange other countries unless you have no other options. This is where I agree that the ICC issues are probably fueling urresponsible behaviour. |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Apr 15, 2012 20:01:20 GMT 3
Investment and aid are two different things. The cold-war reference to the relationship between the West and Kenya is mainly in terms of aid. I think the picture is now fully focussed on investment.
There are nuanced explanations why China invests in Kenya. ODM and Raila’s sentiment seems to have unbridled fear. Why fear, I don’t understand.
China's success is in terms of competition; China is encroaching on the decades-long monopoly of the west over Africa's natural resources by investing on them because it is offering good deals. That can only be a good thing as competition breeds quality both in service and investment made on it.
The problem with the West is they discuss Africa without engaging its people as equal partners. How many Loans were given to previous govt without the population's knowledge? Second, Africans are not seen to be proactive in setting their own priorities and terms of engagement. That is why we have 'experts' seconded by bodies like IMF/World Bank drafting our budgets. Africans are rarely given the opportunity to decide their expenditures. That is changing - Kenya now solely finances its own budget to the tune of 95% thus lowering tremendously aid dependency.
China is investing across the global. Its funds are being used to stoke the failing economies of Spain and Italy. Kenya should not shy away from opportunity to gain from Chinese investment. However, the presence of Chinese investment in Africa does not discharge our government of its responsibilities any more than the Chinese presence in the EU or US should erode their human rights there.
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Post by roughrider on Apr 15, 2012 22:56:34 GMT 3
Investment and aid are two different things. The cold-war reference to the relationship between the West and Kenya is mainly in terms of aid. I think the picture is now fully focussed on investment. Half true. The cold war relationship with the west was also about ideology, trade, raw materials, contracts and markets. The situation is not fully focused on 'investment' as you call it. There is still significant aid, and trade. This seems out-of-the-blue because I haven't seen any reference to Raila and ODM's position on this thread. I haven't discerned any fear. I do not know if they support the 'look east' policy or not. A reference or link will help. Yes, China is quite extractive from the analyses I have seen of its engagement with Africa. It is also correct to assert they offer 'good deals' because they don't ask any uncomfortable questions about democracy, dictatorship, human rights violations, environmental protection etc... Speaking as a consumer, I would say that they are good with buildings, roads etc but very substandard with electronics, cars, household items and services. China is even more opaque in its dealings with Africans. They are unobtrusive and African dictators love that. The Chinese are also open to you do me, I do you type of arrangements where a road project seems unrelated to a mining contract but is in fact the very consideration! Your second point on budgets is correct in a rather pedestrian way. Besides, deficit financing is not necessarily a bad thing if prudently managed. Many developed economies rely on it. We have a huge debt that we still service...and a lever that is used to control us. Besides, the international financial infrastructure controls the ebb and flow of our economy with many Western multi-nationals listed at the NSE. Any loss of confidence from the West and Kenya will be on her knees: trust me. I would be careful about declaring financial independence. True this - China must not be given preferential treatment or offered a different set of rules. |
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Post by roughrider on Apr 15, 2012 23:51:22 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Apr 16, 2012 6:15:41 GMT 3
RR Not knowing where you are, but if you are in Nairobi, I would like to invite you to have a look at Mombasa Road and then compare the work done a couple of years back to work done last year on the stretch from Westlands to Kangemi by SS Mehta construction then you might have an idea what is all wrong with the locals. Can you remember how long it took Kirinyaga Construction to do the Karatina road and how long the chinese have taken to do Thika road? ...go figure! |
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Post by roughrider on Apr 16, 2012 11:39:13 GMT 3
RR Not knowing where you are, but if you are in Nairobi, I would like to invite you to have a look at Mombasa Road and then compare the work done a couple of years back to work done last year on the stretch from Westlands to Kangemi by SS Mehta construction then you might have an idea what is all wrong with the locals. Can you remember how long it took Kirinyaga Construction to do the Karatina road and how long the chinese have taken to do Thika road? ...go figure! The failure of Mehta and Kirinyaga are carry-overs from the Moi days of cowboy contractors. It represents more a failure of Kenyan institutional systems to enforce accountability and delivery rather than just a failure of the firms themselves. But this is the reason why we crave institutional reform and responsible leadership. Your prescription that we should forever rely on foreigners to build for us, even simple projects, is a poor policy choice for a developing country. Let us diagnose the problem correctly and take steps to rectify. Technology transfer must be an integral part of the development projects. We have watched Chinese build Thika Road; are we going to ask Chinese to build the next highway? I look forward to a future where Kenyan companies and Kenyan expertise will be developing mega-structures in Southern Sudan, Congo, Uganda etc… |
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