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Post by akinyi2005 on Apr 9, 2012 4:57:44 GMT 3
;D ;D abo who?
on a serious note otis, with harambees banned, where else can politicians play politics apart from during funerals and in churches? wonder why jakoyo deemed it fit to make such a serious claim in such a casual manner? i don't know.....maybe for the same reasons RAO went public on the artur brothers. wonder why he never went to the police choosing instead to go public with the information.
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Post by Omwenga on Apr 9, 2012 5:25:37 GMT 3
thus far, reading this debate, the issue appears that "the delivery" irks some, but however the message is not being rubbished. btw, kudos to akinyi who does a good job ensuring that we pay attention to the message and not the delivery or source 3. am a little curious about the direction otishotish and mank take on this viz. what now or what next.1. i think midiwo has played his part and played it wellmidiwo is a politician, if he has news, he will wait for the first big (read public podium) to announce it. that way he scores big time in a variety of waysthe issue here is whether the information is creditworthy, if it is, the relevant arms of govt should swing into action (indeed as they have done i.e interrogate him, verify the details etc, and bring back report on findings). 2. midiwo is not an investigator, he is a politician. if he faked the news, he will soon be in court, if his sources faked the info, they will soon be in court. if the info turns out to be legit, 4. he did his job right and gained some serious political mileage.thats how i see it thus far do i like the delivery of the info? am not aware of what else midiwo has done so i will reserve my opinion until i read the rest of the dossier in the meantime i think "to be forewarned is to be forearmed" applies well here 1. It depends on what you consider to be playing a part well. So far, and not just on Jukwaa, people have been distracted by the circus-like performance, and the "message" seems secondary. Midiwo could, on the same day, have informed Raila in private, gone to the police to make a statement, and then given his public performance. That he did not do so is very odd and disturbing to many people. 2. Neither the mourners at the funeral nor the average consumer of media products (where we are supposed to be shouting loudly) are investigators. The only competent investigators are the people Midiwo is still challenging to come challenge him to give a statement. 3. That is a question for those who think Midiwo went about this in the right way, as well as for Midiwo himself. What did he expect Raila and the other mourners to do about it at that particular point? What does anyone expect the average Kenyan to do about any of this? In the normal course of things, Midiwo would have gone to the police, investigations would be initiated, security reviewed, and so forth. But at the moment Midiwo is waiting for the police to challenge him to give a statement, and those who support his approach say the police cannot be trusted to do anything. So, what next? Presumably we should just file it all under "noted" and get back to the daily business of life. By the way, although I ask my "what now" and "what next" questions, I do so merely by way of indicating the sort of things that might be going through some minds. I don't actually expect any answers, and indeed I have seen little attempt here to answer them. In two weeks, this will be forgotten and Midiwo will probably have a "wolf!" chalked against his name. 4. This sort of thing should not be about political mileage. In any case, I don't see what sort of political mileage he has obtained; far too many people appear to have quite a few questions, which, in my view, seem unanswerable. Lastly, it was in extremely bad taste to choose a funeral---where people had gone to mark the death of another person---to start talking about death threats to Raila. Was that the only public venue open to him? Otis,Once again you raise very good points and your observation about Midiwo being stuck with the boy who cried wolf label unless some answers are given or more information becomes available is even more poignant but I have a hunch this is not the case and neither is it "wagging the dog" circumstance. I have two musings I hope to blog about some day one involving a well known politician who for years contributed a fixed amount of money in all Harambees so one time several years ago I asked him why and the answer he gave was outdone in funniness by the one he gave about whether he had ever seen the inside of certain structures people call home, which he never had, the other musing is more recent and involves asking a different politician why they find it necessary to engage in politics at funerals which he actually hates. I thought about that in this debate and you have noted it as well. My suspicion is a lot of things are on menu for change in the not too distant future but boy do we have obstacles in the way before we get there!
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 9, 2012 5:29:56 GMT 3
;D ;D abo who? on a serious note otis, with harambees banned, where else can politicians be politicians apart from during funerals and in churches? Ah, so this was just politics? Phew! Good to know the PM is safe. But to your question: Moi does his politics when opening schools or donating a bus or handing out school-prizes or whatever. Also, one can always call a press conference to make "an announcement that will shock the nation and all right-thinking people" or something. And if one has already been to the police, their "incompetence" and possible "collusion" can be thrown into the mix with much more effect. In fact Midiwo could have chosen any time when he was publicly going about his duties (government or party) and just pulled this thing out of the blue---exactly as he did at the funeral. Maybe ODM needs to start having "prayer" rallies.
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Post by patriotism101 on Apr 9, 2012 5:38:50 GMT 3
What do you do you mean with "ignorning the message and villifying the messenger?" The quoted phrase has two allegations, neither of which is factual. Midiwo's message is not being igored on this thread, and neither is Midiwo being villified. What everyone should be asking is this .... ... and only Midiwo would reasonably be expected to answer the question. Saying that cannot be villifying the messenger or ignoring the message. i think it's reasonable to conclude that such evil plans can only come from politicians and their sidekicks running scared of a possible raila presidency. having said that, do you honestly expect them to investigate themselves? debating how, where and who let the cat out of the bag is irrelevant and an unnecessary distraction from the message that midiwo delivered the best way he knows how. if it's not about vilifying the messenger, how do you explain statements such as these: .... With such buffons as advisors/kitchen cabinets to the PM- you dont need the Ngunyis and the Migunas to remind you the sheneniganism that goes on at the PM office.
....This idiot half brain of a party chief whip
....Jinga hii!
.....""I too underline, jinga extraordinaire! rombe opong'o ODM!"so why call midiwo all these names (check out who made these statements.) are they attacking midiwo for withholding information that may cost the pm his life because these characters love the pm and wouldn't want any harm to come his way? Akinyi, You clearly misunderstood my post or I am not following your angle. Who send Jakoyo with the message? Whose messenger is he? RAO's or the killers? If it is RAO who has engineered the message let's talk about the messenger. If it is the killers who sent Jakoyo, he is not very intelligent on delivery. Jakoyo came across some intelligence about a possible plot to eliminate RAO. Some people here have said the cops are the last people he wants to share with such information (even though a unit guards the PM). I agree, he should be very selective with whom he shares the information. Now to puke the intelligence in a funeral in some rural village in Bondo, I guess is very intelligent. I guess the audience response, including the villagers awed by the 4x4 that streamed into the village heightens the PMs security. As I have said, PM's life is a matter of national security and no one, including the PM's kitchen cabinet should joke around with it. The PM is the head of half loaf. He has his own security networks within the network. Jakoyo should have shared his concerns with RAO first then the security network and if need be the west. In my view, Jakoyo, lacks the sophistication required for PM's front office. If he is a valuable entourage of the PM, he should be consigned to clerical matters in the back office. Such buffoonery and ushamba gives the PM a bad PR and he cannot afford to continue messing up especially in an election year. Akinyi, my consistency on this forum is well documented and my conscious is very clear. I call it as I see it. Happy pillow fight day! Senti 5
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Post by mank on Apr 9, 2012 6:05:39 GMT 3
thus far, reading this debate, the issue appears that "the delivery" irks some, but however the message is not being rubbished.
btw, kudos to akinyi who does a good job ensuring that we pay attention to the message and not the delivery or source
3. am a little curious about the direction otishotish and mank take on this viz. what now or what next.
1. i think midiwo has played his part and played it well
midiwo is a politician, if he has news, he will wait for the first big (read public podium) to announce it. that way he scores big time in a variety of ways the issue here is whether the information is creditworthy, if it is, the relevant arms of govt should swing into action (indeed as they have done i.e interrogate him, verify the details etc, and bring back report on findings). 2. midiwo is not an investigator, he is a politician. if he faked the news, he will soon be in court, if his sources faked the info, they will soon be in court. if the info turns out to be legit, 4. he did his job right and gained some serious political mileage. thats how i see it thus far
do i like the delivery of the info? am not aware of what else midiwo has done so i will reserve my opinion until i read the rest of the dossier
in the meantime i think "to be forewarned is to be forearmed" applies well here 1. It depends on what you consider to be playing a part well. So far, and not just on Jukwaa, people have been distracted by the circus-like performance, and the "message" seems secondary. Midiwo could, on the same day, have informed Raila in private, gone to the police to make a statement, and then given his public performance. That he did not do so is very odd and disturbing to many people.2. Neither the mourners at the funeral nor the average consumer of media products (where we are supposed to be shouting loudly) are investigators. The only competent investigators are the people Midiwo is still challenging to come challenge him to give a statement.
3. That is a question for those who think Midiwo went about this in the right way, as well as for Midiwo himself. What did he expect Raila and the other mourners to do about it at that particular point? What does anyone expect the average Kenyan to do about any of this? In the normal course of things, Midiwo would have gone to the police, investigations would be initiated, security reviewed, and so forth. But at the moment Midiwo is waiting for the police to challenge him to give a statement, and those who support his approach say the police cannot be trusted to do anything. So, what next? Presumably we should just file it all under "noted" and get back to the daily business of life.
By the way, although I ask my "what now" and "what next" questions, I do so merely by way of indicating the sort of things that might be going through some minds. I don't actually expect any answers, and indeed I have seen little attempt here to answer them. In two weeks, this will be forgotten and Midiwo will probably have a "wolf!" chalked against his name.
4. This sort of thing should not be about political mileage. In any case, I don't see what sort of political mileage he has obtained; far too many people appear to have quite a few questions, which, in my view, seem unanswerable.
Lastly, it was in extremely bad taste to choose a funeral---where people had gone to mark the death of another person---to start talking about death threats to Raila. Was that the only public venue open to him?TNK, to add to Otishotish's: It would be unwise to rubbish the message given the long list of political assassinations that colour our history. However that does not mean that the message is being taken without skepticism. Personally I find it unconvincing that Raila had no clue that when Midiwo stood up at the funeral he was going to release the bombshell that he released - I cannot imagine that Raila would have been amused with such a surprise, or that Midiwo would not have been concerned that Raila would not be amused with the surprise. So I suspect there was a measure of theatrics involved - and if that is the case, no one knows how far the theatrics go into the story, and just how much of it is real. In my view, Midiwo would have started with telling Raila. Raila would then have blessed the match to police station to record a statement, or advised whatever procedure he would have found more fitting. For Midiwo to choose an alternative line of action, he must have figured that his way was better than any that the PM would come up with. That then is why I wonder what those who find logic in Midiwo's strategy would say is the next step, and the ultimate result of that strategy.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Apr 9, 2012 6:23:15 GMT 3
otis, yes everything else is politics but the reality that the PMs life may be in danger still remains, btw, donating buses ended with moi. gone are the days when politicians would raid a business premise, invoke the name of moi, barngetuny or whoever and walk away with goodies plus a stack of money to donate to schools etc.
@ patriotism, like everyone else am still trying to fit the many pieces to the puzzle while maintaning focus on the 'message.' if jakoyo is that unsophisticated why should it surprise anyone that he pulled this stunt?
i hear ong'eri says he's not in the plot, so who is in it?
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Post by patriotism101 on Apr 9, 2012 7:39:40 GMT 3
I am actually not surprised at all- the reason I am irked is because RAO did not respond appropriately to Jakoyo's utterances. I expect such nonsense from Jamleck, Kiraitu, kiunjuri and of course Jakoyo etc. Again, the message, even though we dont know whose messenger Jakoyo is, is not under attack. Delivery was the problem. Daring the DC and the OCPD to a duel of statements is very clever(sic). I think if Jakoyo had approached the issue intelligently, we would be talking about the need for more bodies in shades around RAO, more bomb sniffing labradors, more armored 4x4s, increased secrecy on RAO's itinerary, body searches at events attended by RAO, 5 hour Kisumu International Airport lock down before Agwambo flies, increased control on who attends and who does not attend the funerals and functions graced RAO etc etc. Whether Ongeri denies or sues Jakoyo is besides the point. If RAO is high prized target, funeral nonsense does him no good. A proactive audit and response to his security does him and the country more good than harm.
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Post by merkeju on Apr 9, 2012 9:09:43 GMT 3
They have tried everything to stop ICC, what makes you think they will not go after Raila and cause chaos in Kenya so that they wont be taken to Hague, they have nothing else to loose here.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Apr 9, 2012 9:13:40 GMT 3
I heard Raila in Nairobi the other day reminding his ragtag army of their 'no raila no peace' clarion call and wondered where all that was coming from. Jakoyo seems to be completing a script that had been in the works for a while. As they say, desperate times call for desperate meadures; after these guys mismanaged their party with their blind and reckless actions, they are now harping on anything that could whip emotions in the hope that they will ride on sympathy.
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Post by phil on Apr 9, 2012 11:03:11 GMT 3
They have tried everything to stop ICC, what makes you think they will not go after Raila and cause chaos in Kenya so that they wont be taken to Hague, they have nothing else to loose here. I am with you on this issue. Nothing can be taken for granted any longer. Dead men tell no tales. Attempts on Raila's life have been made several times before. Rather than spend time vilifying Jakoyo Midiwo, I would be more interested to know the identity of the two ministers, PS and senior security officers who met and hatched this plot. Anyone who has any designs of eliminating a high profile political figure to cause chaos in Kenya should be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted. They may have killed Robert Ouko and seemingly got away with it. But this is not something that will be swept under the carpet.
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Post by kamalet on Apr 9, 2012 11:14:25 GMT 3
On reflectng about this matter,I was reminded of whose funeral it was. I knew Dr. A L Gondi for he treated me and my family many years ago. His late brother Richard was a colleague at Kenya Re many years ago and was responsible for my head hunting into the private sector where I have been for more than 25 years. He put in a good word for me! Richard was perhaps the most hillarious jaluo friend I have ever had - one who named his son 'Traitor' following the Njonjo affair of being a traitor under Moi! All in jest which we enjoyed in the office.
Having gotten over the anger of Midiwo's buffonery I can pass my belated condolences to the Gondi family.
Going back to this 'kill Raila plot', I am surprised that there are those who do not trust the police. Perhaps they forget that it is the same police that offer Raila 24 hours security. As for those that imagine that Midiwo did his job in announcing at a funeral of the plot the matter should have been left there remind me of say the police commissioner making the announcement about a possible terror plot over easter and then send the police on holiday to enjoy themselves. As we know there was heightened security presence over the holidays that perhaps spared us of the plots. Moral here is that you know of the threat, inform and then do something about it.
The doing something about it must be a report to the police naming the minister and public servants involved in the plot so that they can be arrested and the plot stopped in its tracks.
The fact that Midiwo is not willing to do this must either mean he was playing politics with the PMs life or it was the element of monumental stupidity you would expect from a former hearse driver in New York.
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 9, 2012 11:27:03 GMT 3
Even in peace, there is always a [security] protocol that the top leadership of any country is prone to assassination attempts and plots. That is a standard assumption. But during war, and Kibaki&Raila have sent the Kenyan army across, the threat code is raised to the highest. With the Kenyan army committing atrocities in Somalia -if you believe Somali blogs, it follows that the top leadership in Kenya is game for revenge from radical somali nationalist quarters. It is because at least 3 countries allied to the NATO command have assumed vigil over their top errand boys in the millitary, security and political apparatus in Kenya to thwart any would be Shabaab blowbacks, that I elswhere also warned President Kenyatta not to middlefinger the europeans too much. And it is for the same reason that I would want a lab report on Raila's tears! [There is biochemical theory which says you can use tear drops to detect whether the emotion was genuince or crocodile.] so is this a suggestion that the plot might be true and the excuse used will be '"SHABAAB TERRORISTS" are to blame if it were to happen like the the bombing happening in Kenya recently? blamed on them terrorist from Somalia? Kenyans won't buy it.. As for the PM shedding crocodile tears at a his friends funeral then most Kenyans are guilty because we all shade tear for our departed family and friends.. seems a cheap shot on the PM1. Merely the observed appearance that a politician shed round tears (and looked sad to boot), does not convince me of their genuineness, nor the authencity of the reason given for their rolling. That is why I love my lab reports! when they lie, it is because they are doctored! 2. Political ambition and power transforms psychology --popularly known as power corrupts, such that politicians are always into a performance act in public! So I look at a politician on public stage during campaign with a range of instruments designed to dispell smokscreens. 3. The threat may be real or not. So it is dealt with routinely, unless Midiwo supplies further breakthrough and crucial material which brings this particular threat to the top of the priorities. But the theatrical, tactless and stupid way in which Midiwo went about such an importaint matter --the assassination of Raila can create social strife, would already prejudice any serious investigator. It fits the profile of a fake calls. The wolf syndrome. You know on any given day the desk at the 'tops protection unit' recieves heaps and heaps of leads or tips of possible threats. There is therefore a way of elimination, of priority assessment, of grading credibility. And I am sure Midiwo's delivery makes it a zero priority at the serious desk. [ Ha Ha! he is waiting to be challenged by the local OCPD! Remember the film ghostbusters and its lead song with these lines: There is something bad, in the neighbourhood, who are you gonna call? ---Ghosbusters!The local OCPD really? you are not even going to call him! he has to call, challenge you!]. Imagine you are a cop with other life-saving things to do, like collecting bribes! ' Jogi dwaro negi'! those who speak Luo know that is very specific code! Stupid politicians will say any number of stupid things during a campaign period. How, by the way, did that grenade story at shell-house end? Or Anyang' ---this is not how you run a government-- Nyong'o's run-in at the City Square Post? Or Millie Odhiambo threat at Mbita that late night?
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 9, 2012 11:33:35 GMT 3
see your closing statement here RE: abomisogynist slamely Something funny was happening with my keyboard. Still, having reviewed the context in which the "words" occur, I see no need to change or clarify them: within the context of the story in question, they are absolutely clear and very sensible. keyboards hijacked by loggers! pirate autocorrectors! only women who fake love are worse in my list of hates !
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Post by nalinali on Apr 9, 2012 13:22:36 GMT 3
This thread is a good example of what is wrong with history-starved interlocutors on Jukwaa (this excludes Akinyi, Firaha, , Omwenga). It all makes me believe that OO has, without knowing, stuffed Jukwaa with high school minds totally incapable of informed reflection. I would not mind the level of discourse if the vitriol against jakoyo came from the usual foils ( kamalet, Noway, mwalimkoo, njuguna.. Daniel waweru, etc) on this forum, but this........??
I suppose it would have been OK for Midiwo to go to Iteere and/or Gichangi and whisper into their hearing the insidious intent of some leaders against the person of the PM. had he done so, I can assure you Iteere and co would have come out with details of the alleged plot after a through investigation. Nonsense ! and jakwasanga you are really a disappointment on this.
Just read somewhere that even after Jakoyo had had a rendezvous with Bondo police over this matter, a contingent (unknown to Bondo Police) invaded his home.
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Post by mzee on Apr 9, 2012 13:33:00 GMT 3
Some of you talk as if you are not kenyans. Many have been murdered in kenya. Both high and low profile people. We have lost (through murder) close to 10K mungiki youth in the the michuki/kibaki crackdown. This in a period of less than 10 years. We have lost a whole bunch of political activists and agitators courtesy of moi`s 24 year rule. We have lost at least a dozen politicians (mp`s, ministers, councilors etc).
Nobody has ever been arrested and charged with the above murders by our so called police. To claim that he police can avert murder is a lie. I know that the police are good at arresting changaa brewers and harassing motorists but thats it.
Obviously former policemen like Kamale see nothing wrong with the rotten force.
Im actually surprised that anybody would invoke the name of police as far as averting, investigating and bringing to book criminals is concerned.
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Post by Omwenga on Apr 9, 2012 15:13:13 GMT 3
Omwenga: I have read your article. So far, I have stayed away from making any comments as to the plausability of Midiwo's claims. Nor have I indicated that he should not be taken seriously. I shal get to those later. Right now, in my head, I still have some "preliminary" questions: a) Why did Midiwo not tell Raila beforehand. Why did he choose that particular event, that particular day, and that particular time? I'm sure he has his very deep reasons, but (being a lowly type) in his shoes I would have gone immediately to Raila, in private, and informed him before going public. b) Why did he challenge the police to challenge him to provide a statement? Why the OCPD in Bondo? Again, lowly type that I am, I would not challenge the police to get a statement or merely offer to make a statement. I would be banging on their doors, statement at the ready. And given the importance of the PM to the country, it would not be the police-doors in a small town. I might get to the small-town guys later, but my starting point would be the biggest doors in Nairobi. I hope that in the coming days Midiwo will be able to give some answers that might satisfy those with such questions and also provide additional details of the plot and the plotters. As for sharing information, I'm all for it, although what useful thing most people will do with or about such information is far from clear. By now, I think we can assume that the whole country has heard of this plot, as have many others outside the country. So, let's move to the "what next?" Otis,A reliable source tells me Midiwo will be issuing a statement tomorrow let's hope it sheds more light on this issue.
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Post by Omwenga on Apr 9, 2012 15:18:16 GMT 3
This thread is a good example of what is wrong with history-starved interlocutors on Jukwaa (this excludes Akinyi, Firaha, , Omwenga). It all makes me believe that OO has, without knowing, stuffed Jukwaa with high school minds totally incapable of informed reflection. I would not mind the level of discourse if the vitriol against jakoyo came from the usual foils ( kamalet, Noway, mwalimkoo, njuguna.. Daniel waweru, etc) on this forum, but this........?? I suppose it would have been OK for Midiwo to go to Iteere and/or Gichangi and whisper into their hearing the insidious intent of some leaders against the person of the PM. had he done so, I can assure you Iteere and co would have come out with details of the alleged plot after a through investigation. Nonsense ! and jakwasanga you are really a disappointment on this. Just read somewhere that even after Jakoyo had had a rendezvous with Bondo police over this matter, a contingent (unknown to Bondo Police) invaded his home. Nalinali,
I fully understand your frustration. I have just posted in response to Otis that a reliable source tells me Midiwo will be issuing a statement tomorrow let's hope it sheds light on this and put the naysayers or doubters at ease to the point of hopefully understanding what's going on--some by creature of habit will not anyway or will but pretend they don't.
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 9, 2012 15:45:01 GMT 3
so is this a suggestion that the plot might be true and the excuse used will be '"SHABAAB TERRORISTS" are to blame if it were to happen like the the bombing happening in Kenya recently? blamed on them terrorist from Somalia? Kenyans won't buy it.. As for the PM shedding crocodile tears at a his friends funeral then most Kenyans are guilty because we all shade tear for our departed family and friends.. seems a cheap shot on the PM1. Merely the observed appearance that a politician shed round tears (and looked sad to boot), does not convince me of their genuineness, nor the authencity of the reason given for their rolling. That is why I love my lab reports! when they lie, it is because they are doctored! 2. Political ambition and power transforms psychology --popularly known as power corrupts, such that politicians are always into a performance act in public! So I look at a politician on public stage during campaign with a range of instruments designed to dispell smokscreens. 3. The threat may be real or not. So it is dealt with routinely, unless Midiwo supplies further breakthrough and crucial material which brings this particular threat to the top of the priorities. But the theatrical, tactless and stupid way in which Midiwo went about such an importaint matter --the assassination of Raila can create social strife, would already prejudice any serious investigator. It fits the profile of a fake calls. The wolf syndrome. You know on any given day the desk at the 'tops protection unit' recieves heaps and heaps of leads or tips of possible threats. There is therefore a way of elimination, of priority assessment, of grading credibility. And I am sure Midiwo's delivery makes it a zero priority at the serious desk. [ Ha Ha! he is waiting to be challenged by the local OCPD! Remember the film ghostbusters and its lead song with these lines: There is something bad, in the neighbourhood, who are you gonna call? ---Ghosbusters!The local OCPD really? you are not even going to call him! he has to call, challenge you!]. Imagine you are a cop with other life-saving things to do, like collecting bribes! ' Jogi dwaro negi'! those who speak Luo know that is very specific code! Stupid politicians will say any number of stupid things during a campaign period. How, by the way, did that grenade story at shell-house end? Or Anyang' ---this is not how you run a government-- Nyong'o's run-in at the City Square Post? Or Millie Odhiambo threat at Mbita that late night? Your observation is lumping every politician who cries at a friends funeral as crying crocodile tears or is it as you term it Politician tears, that is absurd one can't just make statements out of think air and insist that they are true.. . I find it insulating that one can blatantly claim that others cry crocodile tears at funerals.. by the way how well do you know the PM and who gives you the right to claim that he was crying crocodile tears at his friends funeral? As for the death threat announce by Midiwo.. why come out shooting it down? what do you know that most Kenyans are unaware of? Al shabaab terrorist are now being blamed for everything including the recent bombing.. anyone planning an assassination has a window of opportunity to blame the terrorist to cover any murder of high level politicians.. I wonder if the plot was against Uhuru or Kibaki what reaction would have been out there? I bet you the police commissioner, CD Boss and every other Top notch police in the country would have been shouting on top of their voices how they were going to get to the bottom of the threat!! ala ! jukwaa would have been RED HOT with people shouting how dare.. just because it it the PM others are ready to brush and shrug the death plot off! utter nonsenses.. fact it is Midiwo announced to the world that a threat on the PM's life is out there.. Kenyans want to get to the bottom of who was involved and what was the planned end game.. A THREAT IS A THREAT AND IT MUST BE FOLLOWED UP!!
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 9, 2012 15:55:50 GMT 3
RE: abomisogynist slamely Something funny was happening with my keyboard. Still, having reviewed the context in which the "words" occur, I see no need to change or clarify them: within the context of the story in question, they are absolutely clear and very sensible. keyboards hijacked by loggers! pirate autocorrectors! only women who fake love are worse in my list of hates ! jakaswanga says"What? now this is statement is confusing? I thought the discussion was about the death threat plot on the PM announced by Midiwo?
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Post by reporter911 on Apr 9, 2012 16:09:05 GMT 3
Some of you talk as if you are not kenyans. Many have been murdered in kenya. Both high and low profile people. We have lost (through murder) close to 10K mungiki youth in the the michuki/kibaki crackdown. This in a period of less than 10 years. We have lost a whole bunch of political activists and agitators courtesy of moi`s 24 year rule. We have lost at least a dozen politicians (mp`s, ministers, councilors etc). Nobody has ever been arrested and charged with the above murders by our so called police. To claim that he police can avert murder is a lie. I know that the police are good at arresting changaa brewers and harassing motorists but thats it. Obviously former policemen like Kamale see nothing wrong with the rotten force. Im actually surprised that anybody would invoke the name of police as far as averting, investigating and bringing to book criminals is concerned. Mzee very enlightening I bet you many of us on Jukwaa had no Idea about thisall I can add is one can't judge people on their past jobs unless they give them the reason to do so.. Yes I wonder what more Kamale can add on the current police rotten force situation as a former insider? and why he thinks Midiwo should have gone to the police? Maybe Midiwo would not have lived to announce the threat plot to the public remember the two activities shot down for having very sensitive information? people who report to police sensitive information sometimes seem to end up dead on many occasions " ask the Mungiki youth" e.t.c refer to Githongo who rn off to the UK and announced from there.. what was he scared of?
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Post by mank on Apr 9, 2012 16:45:58 GMT 3
They have tried everything to stop ICC, what makes you think they will not go after Raila and cause chaos in Kenya so that they wont be taken to Hague, they have nothing else to loose here.
I am with you on this issue.
Nothing can be taken for granted any longer. Dead men tell no tales. Attempts on Raila's life have been made several times before.
Rather than spend time vilifying Jakoyo Midiwo, I would be more interested to know the identity of the two ministers, PS and senior security officers who met and hatched this plot.
Anyone who has any designs of eliminating a high profile political figure to cause chaos in Kenya should be thoroughly investigated and prosecuted.
They may have killed Robert Ouko and seemingly got away with it. But this is not something that will be swept under the carpet. But Raila is not the ICC. Why would killing him stop the ICC process? Is chaos not precisely what has led to the ICC? Why would chaos stop the process? Again, no one is sure that Midiwo is without a story ... the issue is his style, and personally I question whether Raila was not part of the style. If I was Raila in that position I my first issue would be with Midiwo.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Apr 9, 2012 17:05:15 GMT 3
This thread is a good example of what is wrong with history-starved interlocutors on Jukwaa (this excludes Akinyi, Firaha, , Omwenga). It all makes me believe that OO has, without knowing, stuffed Jukwaa with high school minds totally incapable of informed reflection. I would not mind the level of discourse if the vitriol against jakoyo came from the usual foils ( kamalet, Noway, mwalimkoo, njuguna.. Daniel waweru, etc) on this forum, but this........?? I suppose it would have been OK for Midiwo to go to Iteere and/or Gichangi and whisper into their hearing the insidious intent of some leaders against the person of the PM. had he done so, I can assure you Iteere and co would have come out with details of the alleged plot after a through investigation. Nonsense ! and jakwasanga you are really a disappointment on this. Just read somewhere that even after Jakoyo had had a rendezvous with Bondo police over this matter, a contingent (unknown to Bondo Police) invaded his home. so what if OO chooses to stuff jukwaa with high school minds? Are you questioning his intelligence too? what exactly have i said about midiwo that irks you? AINA
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Post by mzee on Apr 9, 2012 17:05:36 GMT 3
But Raila is not the ICC. Why would killing him stop the ICC process? Is chaos not precisely what has led to the ICC? Why would chaos stop the process? Again, no one is sure that Midiwo is without a story ... the issue is his style, and personally I question whether Raila was not part of the style. If I was Raila in that position I my first issue would be with Midiwo. Does it make a difference that Raila was part of the story or not? The fact still remains that unless an investigation is done to disapprove midiwo then he has to be believed never mind the delivery style. I see the usual Raila haters trying to convince us that the story is fake. Let's wait for midiwos statement. In fact I saw him shed tears, which means that he might have a major story
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 9, 2012 17:08:35 GMT 3
I suppose it would have been OK for Midiwo to go to Iteere and/or Gichangi and whisper into their hearing the insidious intent of some leaders against the person of the PM. had he done so, I can assure you Iteere and co would have come out with details of the alleged plot after a through investigation. Nonsense ! and jakwasanga you are really a disappointment on this. Why couldn't he tell the PM beforehand and tell Iteere/Gichangi and still have his public performance. All that could have been done in one day. Why do people think he had just one option that could only be exercised at the exclusion of others?Here's a question: if the matter is to be investigated and prosecuted, who will do the investigation and prosecution? I stand by my prediction: In two weeks all this smoke will have blown away in the wind, and few people will remember any of it.
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 9, 2012 17:18:31 GMT 3
Some of you talk as if you are not kenyans. Many have been murdered in kenya. Both high and low profile people. We have lost (through murder) close to 10K mungiki youth in the the michuki/kibaki crackdown. This in a period of less than 10 years. We have lost a whole bunch of political activists and agitators courtesy of moi`s 24 year rule. We have lost at least a dozen politicians (mp`s, ministers, councilors etc). Nobody has ever been arrested and charged with the above murders by our so called police. To claim that he police can avert murder is a lie. I know that the police are good at arresting changaa brewers and harassing motorists but thats it. Obviously former policemen like Kamale see nothing wrong with the rotten force. Im actually surprised that anybody would invoke the name of police as far as averting, investigating and bringing to book criminals is concerned. So, the matter cannot be investigated by any authorities in Kenya. So, what next? Should we now expect the general public to carry out the investigation and to ensure the PM's security? Given the incompetence and corruption of our authorities, it appears there is little we can do; there is surely no point in asking the authorities to investigate and prosecute or to improve the PM's security. So, the only thing we can do about this announcement is file it under "noted" and go back to getting on with life. Of course, if anyone has any ideas for alternatives, I'd be happy to entertain them. But my "what next" questions aren't getting many takers.
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