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Post by hannali on Apr 24, 2012 21:59:50 GMT 3
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 24, 2012 23:56:00 GMT 3
Excellent. Now what they need to do is turn it into a hospital. The place is extremely filthy, disorganized, and run by serious incompetents. It's the last place a sick person should go---an extremely dangerous place, unless you want to gamble with your health: You go in with one thing, pick another from the person you are sharing a bed with, pick another from the person sleeping under your bed, and several others just walking from one part of the hospital to another. And, of course, there's never any medicine; but, if you have plenty of money, you can always buy the medicine (from hospital's stock) on the black market outside the hospital. A disgrace and a disaster that's killing people.
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Post by tnk on Apr 25, 2012 1:17:04 GMT 3
Excellent. Now what they need to do is turn it into a hospital. The place is extremely filthy, disorganized, and run by serious incompetents. It's the last place a sick person should go---an extremely dangerous place, unless you want to gamble with your health: You go in with one thing, pick another from the person you are sharing a bed with, pick another from the person sleeping under your bed, and several others just walking from one part of the hospital to another. And, of course, there's never any medicine; but, if you have plenty of money, you can always buy the medicine (from hospital's stock) on the black market outside the hospital. A disgrace and a disaster that's killing people. otishotish, its good you raise this issue here from what i understand this is the same scenario in all public hospitals starting from KNH to the little ones as you may recall that is/was the biggest issue during the doctors strike (now forgotten) this is a govt problem, i would not label any of the personnel incompetent per se, but generally say that public health care is a national disaster, perhaps hannali can confirm this |
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 25, 2012 1:46:58 GMT 3
tnk: Yes, a great deal of it is the government's problem, but there is also a great deal of sheer incompetence on the part of the administrators. Let's take something very simple: what does it take to get someone with a mop and a bucket of water to do some simple cleaning? What does it take to get someone to clean up piles of rubbish all around? Especially when one can see employees lounging around idly, gossiping about politics. Much of the filth I have seen in our public hospitals could actually disappear very quickly if people were serious about it. I know this because on one occasion I and a relative actually took it upon ourselves to properly clean a place where another relative was allegedly being treated. We did a thorough job, in a few hours, and with hospital staff employed to do the job watching with amusement.
Some basic matters of hygiene do not actually require a great deal; people need to start assuming responsibility for the situation around them, instead of crying for the government (however hopeless it may be). And then there's the "where you work is where you eat" culture, which means thievery even of critical hospital supplies. Where are people's conscience when, by such theft, they are condemning people to death?
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Post by tnk on Apr 25, 2012 2:33:06 GMT 3
otishotish
i wont even go here
the work culture of kenyans and the attitudes of business people are some of the most amazing
like you correctly state, for someone to do that simple maintenance task, some chai has to be floated, even if its just to pick a piece of paper and then look for a waste bin
total mindset change is required, good luck with that. perhaps v2030 will cure that
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Post by morimax on Apr 25, 2012 8:04:54 GMT 3
Surely, what prompted the change of name? Whatever it is was it worth it? Is it another hero worship or Odingaism in continuation? Can someone enlighten me more, I understand Kisumu city is becoming a one family business show, from real estate, to hospitality, to industries that exist now to medical institutions... well they are rumours but do they hold any water? Those who bought shares from molasses plant, do you get your dividends? what happened to the Luo thrift? Do we vote in the leaders we want or we wait to be told so and so is the man to work with me? OOOOh this man, for sure I will vote for you, but we will give you two years in Office and if there will be no tangible result to my expectation..... then be ready for a big revolution right from your bedrock.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Apr 25, 2012 8:59:05 GMT 3
Surely, what prompted the change of name? Whatever it is was it worth it? Is it another hero worship or Odingaism in continuation? In case you have forgotten, Jaramogi Oginga Odinga's legacy as one of Africa's foremost nationalists was secured decades ago. He is respected from the Caribbean to all over the African continent. For you, presumably a KENYAN, to quibble over the fact that the hospital, which Jaramogi was INSTRUMENTAL in bringing to life should be renamed in his honour, is to the say the least, petty and parochial.You are likely to react that I am saying what I am saying because both of my names begin and end with an O, but I am sure if you are honest you will acknowledge that is NOT where I am coming from- if you have been following my contributions online for the last twenty years or so. How many institutions in Kenya are named after the country's first vice-president? How many schools, roads, hospitals? How many statues have been erected in honour of Jaramogi? By comparison, how many schools, roads, hospitals are named after the country's third vice-president? If I had my way, I would rename Maseno University Oginga Odinga University. Onyango Oloo
Nairobi, Kenya |
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Post by kamalet on Apr 25, 2012 10:26:12 GMT 3
Oloo
You surprise me on this. I highly doubt that "n alive" Jaramogi would have been a happy man had the Kisumu PGH in its present form was named after him. Secondly, Jaramogi is perhaps one of those politicians who were never excited with 'things' named after them otherwise he would have pushed for these especially in Luo Nyanza where he was deified.
But as Morimax asked would your reaction have been the same had a thread been started about Mama Lucy Kibaki Hospital?
Unless the intention was to generate political debate (as you declared this forum to be recently!!), then this story should not find itself in this forum. Agree?
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Apr 25, 2012 16:04:49 GMT 3
Oloo You surprise me on this. I highly doubt that "n alive" Jaramogi would have been a happy man had the Kisumu PGH in its present form was named after him. Secondly, Jaramogi is perhaps one of those politicians who were never excited with 'things' named after them otherwise he would have pushed for these especially in Luo Nyanza where he was deified. But as Morimax asked would your reaction have been the same had a thread been started about Mama Lucy Kibaki Hospital? Unless the intention was to generate political debate (as you declared this forum to be recently!!), then this story should not find itself in this forum. Agree? Do I? I mean, surprise you? My point was made in my riposte to Morimax. I do not want to repeat myself. OO |
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Post by okolowaka on Apr 25, 2012 16:28:07 GMT 3
I have seen the notification in the Kenya Gazette and I agree that this was long overdue. "Russia Hospital" was initially designed to be developed in phases, with the University Teaching and Refferal Hospital being part of the original design. Well, enter politics, years of neglect and these plans were simply put on ice. Good news... I just hope that the insitution is placed under management of Maseno University... Just saying....
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Post by justfacts on Apr 25, 2012 18:15:41 GMT 3
This does not mean the hospital shall get more wards/Doctors/funding, so why fret over it.
To do away with the obsession with names and argument akin to the Kettle calling the pot black.
I endorse what the constitution did with the practice of having faces on currency.
If it were up to me I would also do away with naming institutions after personalities in favour of, for example, Swahili names like 'Maisha Teaching and Referral Hospital' - reassuring and non divisive.
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Post by nalinali on Apr 25, 2012 18:16:56 GMT 3
I have seen the notification in the Kenya Gazette and I agree that this was long overdue. "Russia Hospital" was initially designed to be developed in phases, with the University Teaching and Refferal Hospital being part of the original design. Well, enter politics, years of neglect and these plans were simply put on ice. Good news... I just hope that the insitution is placed under management of Maseno University... Just saying.... This would be good considering the way Maseno turned around Hotel Royale into one worthy of a sojourn. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Apr 25, 2012 19:38:48 GMT 3
Why Jaramogi if I may ask?
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 25, 2012 20:22:05 GMT 3
If I had my way, I would rename Maseno University Oginga Odinga University. Onyango Oloo,Nairobi, Kenya Oloo, I remember my old man, a man of withering sarcasm at times. Visiting his brother in Nairobi long ago, he mockingly came back and told us how he had gotten bored with Kenyatta this, Kenyatta that. JKI airport --then being built I think, JKUAT --foundations, Kenyatta University, Kenyatta Hospital, Kenyatta Avenue, Kenyatta estate! So he was telling us he had told the mayor  --( we laughed: the mayor was Margaret Kenyatta and he could not have met her!}-- that if the people loved Kenyatta that much, they should rename Nairobi Kenyatta city, and pass a law to have the inhabitants offer their women to the Kenyatta family to bear them more things to call Kenyatta! Amen. Now I am afraid this sarcasm is coming home to boomerang! Jaramogi this [airport], Jaramogi that [road] etc in Kisumu. --So if they love him that much in Nyanza they should ... On the historical significance of Jaramogi: True, but there are plenty heroes to share in the honour of having things named after them. Not much named after Argwings Kodhek in Nyanza. Not to mention Achieng' Oneko. [There is a time 'we' proposed to name Moi Stadium Kisumu the Lwanda Magere stadium! You will be surprised who refused! Maseno university would best be named after Odera Akang'o. Why? It was Akang'o, with inspired vision, who frog-marched Gem and Luoland at large to embrace the whiteman's education as if it were manna from heaven. And created the myth of Luo intellectual prowess! and unassailability.. [add a bit of salted omean to it of course] Why not name the first Luo  university [ Kamale's term] after him! Akang'o would be my pitch If it were to be adressed in a public baraza or kamukunji. |
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Post by akinyi2005 on Apr 25, 2012 20:23:27 GMT 3
I have seen the notification in the Kenya Gazette and I agree that this was long overdue. "Russia Hospital" was initially designed to be developed in phases, with the University Teaching and Refferal Hospital being part of the original design. Well, enter politics, years of neglect and these plans were simply put on ice. Good news... I just hope that the insitution is placed under management of Maseno University... Just saying.... This would be good considering the way Maseno turned around Hotel Royale into one worthy of a sojourn. the idea of russia hospital being placed under management of maseno university sounds attractive but not sure it would work ....i remember the 'old royale' - old dirty tables and washrooms plus hungry tired looking waiters . anyway, aside from the name change, the most important step would be a total overhaul of the hospital management. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 26, 2012 0:21:32 GMT 3
The place, like other public hospitals, is an unhealthy slum run by dangerously incompetent people. Jaramogi could not now recognize the place and would have been embarrassed to have this danger-to-public-health named after him.
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mrembo
Full Member
Jaber
Posts: 136
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Post by mrembo on Apr 27, 2012 14:55:21 GMT 3
Maseno uni makes a natural choice for partnership with J.O.O.Teaching & Referral Hospital.Maseno has plenty of room in Kisum city that wld house the Teaching facility.
Jaber & family
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Post by okolowaka on Apr 28, 2012 13:41:36 GMT 3
...I would be more than satisfied if "Russia Hospital" is made a constituent college of Maseno University because a new management style; a new strategic vision; a new institutional culture; a new philosophy, driven by teachers and learners of both administrative and clinical aspects of health-care is needed to turn around this facility.
Maseno university has already established a school of medicine that has a working MOU with "Russia Hospital" to use the available facilities for practicals and research. This collaboration should be pushed to a full Maseno University take-over in time.
With the Walter Reed, CDC, and KEMRI already having major medical research facilities within and without "Russia Hospital" the University Teaching and Referral Hospital will not have to start from scratch because major learning and research has been going on in "Russia" for some time now.
Maseno has proved that it can turn around run-down facilities; those who have visited the old former Kisumu Hotel/Hotel Royale will agree that this is testament to what can be achieved. Maseno University bought that old relic of a hotel and has turned it into an admirable, clean, modern teaching facility/hotel and generator of revenue.
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 28, 2012 16:34:09 GMT 3
I have seen the notification in the Kenya Gazette and I agree that this was long overdue. "Russia Hospital" was initially designed to be developed in phases, with the University Teaching and Refferal Hospital being part of the original design. Well, enter politics, years of neglect and these plans were simply put on ice. Good news... I just hope that the insitution is placed under management of Maseno University... Just saying.... This would be good considering the way Maseno turned around Hotel Royale into one worthy of a sojourn. I find it disheartening that it is hotel management that is pointed out as the outstanding achievement of a university management! [we kuodo wiwa bwana!]I would rather it were the quality of the graduates taking the course hotel management! [they call it hospitaity these days] The kind of success stories I would like the Luo  university to boast of are of a different nature. The kind of things which will make her make the 'Shangai list'!Meanwhile, it is of course a curiosity that Maseno could offer medical courses without a constituent ' school of medicine' infra-structure. In abc terminology that is usually a referral hospital. Like KNH is to Nairobi university [complete with lecture halls since from 3rd year the medics practically 'live' there. Chiromo campus is merely introductory, for freshers. Russia belongs to Maseno University faculty of medical and laboratory sciences by logic. And, if the omena we eat does its work, the chart bursting Maseno institute of Tropical Medicine later. But those who know the politics of Kisumu, if they bother to be honest on this board, will care to inform us why Rasia did not go to Maseno from day one! otishotishYou cleaned a kenyan ward in a hospital yourself! Of course that is standard practice these days. In the AIDs wards at Rasia, if the relatives do not clean the body fluids and excrement themselves, one week later they still will be there! The whiterman built the hospital yes, but he forgot to inform the native that it needs to be kept a kind of neat and clean. In a bar in Kisumu I once spied the supritendent of the hospital in what the Luos call a 'do you know me moment'. Well, your knowledge of hygiene is lower than that of illiterate Achola the wife of Ramogi Onam, and your managerial skills wouldn't run a kiosk at Kisumu stend, the other fellow reciprocated! Stated in Luo, it was all so funny the whole bar laughed and it died there. |
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Post by adongo23456 on Apr 28, 2012 18:23:12 GMT 3
Folks,
Let's get a little serious. It doesn't hurt. Being gazetted as a referral hospital offers immense opportunities for this institution to grow and provide critical services to Kenyans. Let's forget about Luos, Kisumu and all the cheap shots that entertain us.
Being a referral institution means the Jaramogi Hospital can attract and retain funding and investments from universities and health institutions around the world both for purposes of providing state of the art health care services and for research in health needs and provision in Kenya.
Maseno University could just be a starting point. There is no reason why the Jaramogi Referral Hospital cannot liaise with other universities in Kenya to provide resources both technical and human to provide, promote and advance health care in the country. In Kisumu itself we have the Great Lakes University which specializes in health care training. They are another natural partner to the institution. Right next is Moi University which has distinguished itself in many areas of academic pursuit including health services. They can be brought in with careful planning and work.
Outside the country we already have the Florida A&M university which signed a protocol last year to work with Kenyan institutions of higher learning. The PM will be at the A&M university this week. What an opportunity to ask the A&M university to be part the Jaramogi Referral Hospital. That is just the beginning.
I think the discussion we need to have is how Kenyans out here can help promote the Jaramogi Referral Hospital to achieve the best it can do given the endless opportunities it now has rather than on the negative diatribe of how terrible "Russia" Hospital is. What else did we expect. No sane Kenyan with money goes to a public hospital. They are death beds. We know that. But when opportunities come to change that culture, it is our job to embrace them and offer help if we can. Is that too much too much to ask? May be Not.
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 28, 2012 18:44:04 GMT 3
Folks,I think the discussion we need to have is how Kenyans out here can help promote the Jaramogi Referral Hospital to achieve the best it can do given the endless opportunities it now has rather than on the negative diatribe of how terrible "Russia" Hospital is. What else did we expect. No sane Kenyan with money goes to a public hospital. They are death beds. We know that. But when opportunities come to change that culture, it is our job to embrace them and offer help if we can. Is that too much too much to ask? May be Not. Adongo: Are you taking something small so early in the morning? ;D I find it ironic that you describe public hospitals--- hospitals of all things!---as death beds, state that no sane Kenyan with money goes there, and then ask us to look on the positive side. What else did we expect? Some basic things about a hospital---that it will be a place where sick people go to get treated, in order to get better, not a place where they go to die from filth and additional diseases that they pick up there. Is that too much to ask? As for helping "Jaramogi Referral Hospital to achieve the best it can", I'm all for it. In my view a starting point would be to have an honest discussion of how it is at present, how it got there, and what can be done to take it forward to the past (i.e. what it used to be). I don't see how the "endless opportunities" are going to help if the place continues to be run on the same basis as it is now run. Right now I know a guy who is also looking at those "endless opportunities": He runs a "pharmacy" in a small shack behind his house in Kondele. That's where you go if the doctors at Russia tell you that they don't have this or that medicine---because his "pharmacy" is very well-stocked with the hospital's medicine. Is it too much to expect that hospital administrators should do something about his suppliers? By all means let's look at the positive. But let's also discuss the present reality and how it can be changed. |
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Post by adongo23456 on Apr 28, 2012 19:06:26 GMT 3
Folks,I think the discussion we need to have is how Kenyans out here can help promote the Jaramogi Referral Hospital to achieve the best it can do given the endless opportunities it now has rather than on the negative diatribe of how terrible "Russia" Hospital is. What else did we expect. No sane Kenyan with money goes to a public hospital. They are death beds. We know that. But when opportunities come to change that culture, it is our job to embrace them and offer help if we can. Is that too much too much to ask? May be Not. Adongo: Are you taking something small so early in the morning? ;D I find it ironic that you describe public hospitals--- hospitals of all things!---as death beds, state that no sane Kenyan with money goes there, and then ask us to look on the positive side. What else did we expect? Some basic things about a hospital---that it will be a place where sick people go to get treated, in order to get better, not a place where they go to die from filth and additional diseases that they pick up there. Is that too much to ask? As for helping "Jaramogi Referral Hospital to achieve the best it can", I'm all for it. In my view a starting point would be to have an honest discussion of how it is at present, how it got there, and what can be done to take it forward to the past (i.e. what it used to be). I don't see how the "endless opportunities" are going to help if the place continues to be run on the same basis as it is now run. Right now I know a guy who is also looking at those "endless opportunities": He runs a "pharmacy" in a small shack behind his house in Kondele. That's where you go if the doctors at Russia tell you that they don't have this or that medicine---because his "pharmacy" is very well-stocked with the hospital's medicine. Is it too much to expect that hospital administrators should do something about his suppliers? By all means let's look at the positive. But let's also discuss the present reality and how it can be changed. I choose to be in the "solutions business". That means as much as I look at things the way they are, I am also obliged to look at things the way they should be. Here are a few facts that you probably already know. 1. Public Hospitals in Kenya are death beds. They have no resources, no genuine medication and no capacity to provide any meaningful health services except for the absolutely desperate citizens. That is a fact. 2. Kenyans with money, including Kenyans in diaspora who occassionally go to Kenya will never take themselves or family members to public hospitals. That is not surprising. It is the same thing with public schools. Only the dirt poor go there. Why? 3. The newly gazetted Jaramogi Referral Hospital is derelict. My elder sister died there while trying to give birth to her second born. Her first born is now my best friend in the republic. He is one hell of a guy. I know that place with my eyes closed. I lived right next to it in Manyatta Estate with my uncle. Is it bad? Yes it is. But that is the condition of all public hospitals in Kenya. Why should we even be surprised or need a discussion on how the mess got there? 4. In terms of trying to help the Hospital, my thinking is that being a referral facility gives this institution a new lease of life. There can be new sources of funding. New formats of governance in the institution. New approaches to providing health care. Here in Toronto the biggest and best supplier of health care services is the University Health Network (UHN) which compromises more than ten hospitals and works very closely with UofT and other universities to provide health care services and training. They are doing a great job. In my view, these things do not amount to rocket science. They are doable even in Kenya. That is my point. Here is the UHN website. I amsure there are many like this. Why can't we learn from them and work with them? Here we go: www.uhn.ca/applications/iNews/default.aspx |
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Post by OtishOtish on Apr 28, 2012 19:27:54 GMT 3
Adongo: A lot of things are doable in Kenya but are not done. Why? Is funding necessarily the problem? What do you do if there is more funding and it gets eaten? Is lack of medication necessarily the problem? I told you where you can get Russia's supply of medicine. Also, simply saying that that is how all public hospitals in Kenya are is rather unsatisfying; it is also unhelpful when we are discussing this particular hospital.
I too am in the "solutions business", but I prefer to start with a clear understanding of how the problem first arose; in my view, without such an understanding, and corresponding corrective and preventative actions, there is every possibility that even if things change it may just be for a short time. For example, you suggest new formats of governance. That to me suggests first having a good understanding of how the present ones have resulted in the mess; otherwise, there is no reason to believe that merely having new formats will produce the required changes and maintain them.
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--(we laughed: the mayor was Margaret Kenyatta and he could not have met her!}-- that if the people loved Kenyatta that much, they should rename Nairobi Kenyatta city, and pass a law to have the inhabitants offer their women to the Kenyatta family to bear them more things to call Kenyatta! Amen.
university [Kamale's term] after him! Akang'o would be my pitch If it were to be adressed in a public baraza or kamukunji.
university to boast of are of a different nature. The kind of things which will make her make the 'Shangai list'!