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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 8:27:10 GMT 3
Raila, Uhuru Launch 2007 Orange coalition
David Ohito and Anderson Ojwang’, Standard, Monday, September 26, 2005
Roads minister Raila Odinga and Kanu chairman Uhuru Kenyatta yesterday launched a new political coalition ahead of the 2007 General Election as they wound up the first phase of the Orange campaign.
The coalition named Orange Democratic Movement was unveiled in a star-studded rally in Kisumu attended by at least 40 Members of Parliament drawn from the Liberal Democratic Party and Kanu. In what was dubbed "The Kisumu Declaration", Heritage minister Najib Balala announced the formation of the movement, which he said was capable of wresting power from President Kibaki.
Balala said the team comprising Raila, Uhuru, Kanu secretary general William Ruto, Environment minister Kalonzo Musyoka, former Vice President Musalia Mudavadi and himself was capable of giving the country a new leadership.
Addressing one of the biggest crowds seen in Kisumu in recent times, Raila talked tough and reminded his listeners of how Filipinos had united in the 80s and jettisoned Philippines dictator, the late Ferdinand Marcos, from state house.
"This team has a national outlook. We want to replace the old guards who have been recycled since Independence," said Balala.
He declared that come 2007, the country’s leadership would be in the hands of the Orange team and asked Kenyans to support the cause.
Earlier, Ruto had hinted at a coalition between political parties in the Orange camp, whose sole purpose would be to dislodge their rivals in the Banana camp from power.
"They way you see us united here is how we will be during the next elections. If the Government collapses we should not be blamed. Instead, President Kibaki’s cronies should take responsibility for the debacle," he said.
"You do not have to overthrow Kibaki’s government. Insiders like Raphael Tuju, Kiraitu Murungi and retirees like John Michuki, and even Chris Murungaru will just steer it to collapse on its own," he added.
Mudavadi and Uhuru said they would strive to remain united for the prosperity of the country.
"I have been accused of seeking alliance with Raila, who is a Luo, but I have told them there is nothing wrong with that. We are committed to having a united country for prosperity," said Uhuru.
Balala said an era for the youth had dawned and announced that after the November 21 referendum they shall be in the forefront.
The Orange Democratic Movement, the Mvita MP said, will rally the support of like-minded Kenyans to demand for change across the country. He said the new movement would fight for the rights of Kenyans and pressurise the Government into delivering an acceptable the new constitution.
Supporters of the Orange camp who are pushing for a ‘No’ vote in the referendum started arriving at Kisumu’s Moi Stadium from as early as 8 am. They came on foot, cycling and driving. Even the physically challenged were not left out.
There was a huge demand for T-shirts emblazoned with the word ‘No’ across the front and back. The shirts were selling at between Sh3,000-4,000 while the caps went for Sh250.
Assistant minister George Khaniri likened the newly launched movement to the raging waters of River Nile on the way to Egypt, which he said, nobody can stop.
A heap of oranges rested on the dais and when their thirst could no longer hold the VIPs turned them into quenchers.
In a separate interview, Balala said they would sit and reach an agreement on who will steer the Orange Democratic Movement as the Presidential candidate in 2007.
"We need time to bond and separate the chaff from the grain, this is where we failed in the last elections.’’
LDP chairman David Musila said the new movement would push the Government to "respects and listen’’ to the wishes of Kenyans. " If you are looking for a wife and have married her, the next move is to look for a child and you don’t stop till you make one," added Musila, who is also deputy Speaker of the National Assembly.
Musila asked Kibaki to take charge of Kenya and shove aside "pretenders to the throne" who were making his leadership unpopular.
Speaking at a church service before the rally, Raila announced a ban on Nation Media Group journalists from covering orange rallies, saying they were biased against the Orange team.
He claimed the group’s newspapers had misreported and misinterpreted facts and denied a story in the Sunday Nation, which quoted him as saying President Kibaki’s government should resign if it is beaten at the referendum.
"I did not say what the paper wrote. This is a clear fabrication by the Group and henceforth let them not cover any of our functions," said Raila at the Power of Jesus Around the World Church.
Raila said there was need for a new media order in Kenya to report responsibly and save the country from chaos. He said Rwanda was thrown into turmoil by irresponsible media.
Uhuru said their main concern was "how to remove a dishonest Government and replace it with a credible lot that would honour plegdes and create jobs."
"Never see yourself in a small house (Parliament) and think you have the majority, while outside you are the minority. This is why we will never agree to negotiations with the ‘Yes’ team," Uhuru said.
Raila told the crowd that Government vehicles were being issued with private number plates to enable them campaign for the referendum without the public’s knowledge.
He castigated Minister Kiraitu Murungi for saying that the Government would use public coffers to bankroll the ‘Yes’ campaign.
KANU vice chairman Chris Okemo urged Kenyans to soldier on without fear from the Government as it was bound to flop claiming "Kibaki and his deputy, Moody Awori, have lost track."
Planning minister Anyang’ Nyong’o said the leaders of the Narc revolution which brought Kibaki to power had now regrouped in the Orange camp.
The meeting was attended by 42 MPs including Gideon Moi, Stephen Ondiek, Orwa Ojode, Eric Nyamunga, Charles Keter, Nick Salat, Ayiecho Olweny, Wycliffe Osundwa, Reuben Ndolo, Eric Sungu, Paul Sang, Samuel Poghisio, Musa Sirma, David Sudi, Julia Ojiambo, Owino Likowa, Otieno Kajwang, Khalif Ahmed, Omingo Magara and Ken Nyagudi.
Others were MPs Mutinda Mutiso, Justin Muturi, Sammy Weya, Kenneth Marende, Henry Kosgey, Kiema Kilonzo, Omondi William, Andrew Ligale.
Former Cabinet ministers Chris Obure, Sam Ongeri, former MPs James Orengo, Ochiro Ayoki, and Martin Shikuku also attended.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 12:12:45 GMT 3
Orange MPs Launch Campaign MovementStory by ANGWENYI GICHANA, Daily Nation Publication Date: 9/26/2005The Orange team concluded the first leg of its campaign in Kisumu yesterday with the launch of the Orange Democratic Movement to spearhead the rest of the lobbying. Unveiling the new movement under what he described as the Kisumu Declaration, the National Heritage minister, Najib Balala, said it would create political awareness in the country. "The Orange team is unstoppable in bringing about political change in the country; the current political leadership is insincere," the minister told a mammoth crowd at the Kisumu municipal stadium. And after making the announcement, loud speakers burst out a tune of "bado mapambano (the struggle continues). More than 50 MPs present rose up simultaneously to dance to the tune. Then it was the turn of leader of Official Opposition Uhuru Kenyatta to speak. He dwelt on the broken Narc promises, the proposed new Constitution which he faulted as seeking to kill multi-party democracy and introduce a dictatorship. However, Clause 4 of the new Constitution provides safety that will ensure that the country remains a democracy with multipartyism, plus transparency in governance. Mr Kenyatta praised the massive turnout in the Kisumu rally and urged the youth to reject the new Constitution. He asked voters to turn out in large numbers on the voting day for that was the only way that the document would be thrown out. He claimed that those in the Yes campaign were wooing those opposed to the draft with money, which the opponents have discounted several times, insisting however, that it was right for them to use Government resources. Mr Kenyatta said Kenyans were only interested in fighting for justice and a new constitutional order. He ruled out negotiations on the planned Constitution ahead of the referendum. Roads and Public Works minister Raila Odinga, who was the host, clarified that he did not ask the Government to quit should the Banana team lose in the referendum. Mr Odinga later telephoned the Nation to stress that he had used a Kiswahili proverb, which the reporter might have misinterpreted. The minister said he had used the proverb, Jongoo hutupwa na mti wake (the millipede is thrown away with the stick)". This should have meant that if the proposed new Constitution was defeated at the referendum, the country should then go back to what they started with at the Bomas delegates conference commonly known as the Bomas Draft. Mr Odinga said governments world over – France and Holland – had lost in referendums and that the Government was bent to lose in the constitutional vote. He criticised leaders using public resources saying the Constitution was not a Government project, but a covenant between leaders and the people. On the media, Mr Odinga cautioned that it was the cause of genocide in Rwanda and should be wary of what they passed to the public. He warned against any attempts by the Yes team to rig the referendum. The new Constitution prescribed for a powerful presidency, a monarch, as opposed to a leader. Mr Odinga criticised the Church for sitting on the fence regarding the referendum and praised Catholic Archbishop Zachaeus Okoth of Kisumu for taking a stand on the matter. He said the Narc summit promised to deliver a Constitution within 100 days, but the Government went against the pledge. Mr Balala said that those who were calling for the sacking of ministers opposed to the Draft never participated in the campaign for President Kibaki in the last General Election. He told the youth to take the money allegedly being circulated by the Yes campaigners but reject the document at the poll. He termed those who were dishing out money for the Yes campaign a "micro finance pata potea (gambling) party". Sports minister Ochillo Ayacko said the draft Constitution was against the Christian doctrine of establishing courts on earth. Planning minister Anyang' Nyong'o said the President should read the signs of the time and being the real proprietors of the Narc revolution, the Orange movement would emancipate the people from oppressive rule. Kanu vice-chairman Chris Okemo asked Kenyans to join hands and reject the Draft, which he said, was flawed. Kenyans would not accept anything short of the Bomas Draft. Kanu secretary-general William Ruto said the Orange movement did not have any intention to bring down the Government. He said those claiming so were misleading the President and if the Government came down, they were to blame. Mr Ruto pointed an accusing finger on ministers Raphael Tuju (Information) Mr Simeon Nyachae (Energy) and Kiraitu Murungi (Justice) as the people who were not telling the President the truth about the planned referendum. Deputy Speaker David Musila told the President to take a firm grip of the country and tame leaders who talk recklessly. He wondered why the Government was spending resources to have the Draft passed if it (draft) was genuinely for the good of Kenyans. Makadara MP Reuben Ndolo alleged a plot to bribe those in the Orange campaign to decamp to the Banana side. Assistant minister Andrew Ligale told Vice-President Moody Awori and Ford-K chairman Musikari Kombo to reconsider their stand since Western province was a no-go zone for Bananas. Assistant minister George Khaniri told wananchi to reject MPs who supported the Banana since they had been bought and turned businessmen in Parliament. Others who spoke included MPs Kenneth Marende (Emuhaya), Wycliffe Osundwa (Mumias) Omingo Magara (South Mugirango), Henry Kosgey (Tinderet) Prof Juliah Ojiambo (nominated), Nick Salat (Bomet), Gideon Moi (Baringo Central), William Omondi (Kasarani) Assistant minister Khalif Mohammed and Oburu Oginga (Bondo).Others were Ken Nyagudi (Kisumu Town West), Ochieng' Mbeo (East African Assembly) Gor Sunguh, Joe Khamisi (Bahari), David Sudi (Marakwet) and Justin Muturi (Siakago).Former ministers Prof Sam Ongeri and Chris Obure told Mr Nyachae to reconsider his stand.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 12:24:24 GMT 3
From: "Aboge, Fredrick" <fred.aboge@...> Date: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:20 pm Subject: RE: [africa-oped] Re: LDP KANU alliance for 2007 takes legitimacy away from both camps!
I am opposed to this 2007 electioneering! What about the constitution?
I thought it was Moi's Uhuru project that these guys rejected and formed the rainbow coalition? Consistency anyone??
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 12:26:14 GMT 3
From: "nmatunda" <matunda@...> Date: Sun Sep 25, 2005 7:12 pm Subject: Re: LDP KANU alliance for 2007 takes legitimacy away from both camps!
Isn't this Moi's Kanu reborn! Otherwise, what was LDP but Kanu's rebellious child?
People, the contest we are witnessing is not about reforms but about power in 2007. And the Orange revolution may yet experience a set back as they get carried in their own wave of perceived success.
Matunda Nyanchama
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 12:27:52 GMT 3
From: "Onyango Oloo" <oloo_wa_canada@yahoo.com> Date: Sun Sep 25, 2005 8:12 pm Subject: the fear mongering is rather cheap Raila Odinga was detained THREE TIMES by Moi- whose loyal servants included Mwai Kibaki, Simon Nyachae and many of the people who are today reminding Kenyans about how bad KANU was. Where were some of you during the darkest days of that dictatorship?
Onyango Oloo Toronto
--- In africa-oped@yahoogroups.com, "nmatunda" <matunda@h...> wrote: > Isn't this Moi's Kanu reborn! Otherwise, what was LDP but Kanu's > rebellious child? > > People, the contest we are witnessing is not about reforms but about > power in 2007. And the Orange revolution may yet experience a set back > as they get carried in their own wave of perceived success. > > Matunda Nyanchama > >
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 12:35:37 GMT 3
From: "nmatunda" <matunda@...> Date: Sun Sep 25, 2005 11:31 pm Subject: Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap - correction! --- In africa-oped@yahoogroups.com, "nmatunda" <matunda@h...> wrote: Good questions Oloo.
Except for the fact detention alone doesn't a saint make. Koigi wa Wamwere was detained severally by both Kenyatta and Moi; we Kenyans abroad campaigned hard, along with Amnesty International, for his release and he was eventually released on the strength of international pressure; after an exile sojourn in Europer and North America, he went back home, reclaimed his seat and has become one of the most reactionary politicians of our time, detention notwithstanding!
Of Moi's dictatorship and its perpetuation, isn't it a paradox that the so called most persecuted politician, Raila Odinga, collaborated with Moi, baffling his ardent admirers in the process? While in bed with his "enemy" Moi, Raila (as NDP leader) was appointed chairman of the parliamentary select committee on reforms; this was after the 1997 election, post IPPG. As chairman, he tried and failed to move the reforms process forward as he excluded a whole segment of Kenyans that was camped in Ufungamano. In his dictatorial push to ram the reforms through parliament, he failed. (Oloo you remember well that I made the same remark when Raila, Balala, Ruto, Adagala and the Kanu crowd came to Toronto; I talked about process and why it was important that reforms be seen to be all encompassing and inclusive!)
Raila, like any politician, is focused on power; and not because detention made/makes him a saint! It is simply that having found himself duped by Moi (who had promised to have him as Kanu presidential candidate) cut his losses and ran from Kanu, in the form of the Rainbow Coalition! In the process, he generated a lot of goodwill with Mwananchi for no one had defied Moi and gotten away with it! This "poltical capital could run out soon if he doesn't watch out.
As for your comments about Kibaki, Nyachae and others, remember this: this is politics and these players, including Raila, know that there are no permanent friends but permanent interests. Raila's interests at the moment are aligned with the so called Orange revolution, with an ultimate aim of winning power, that has been elusive to him to date, in 2007! His passion and energy in fighting his own NARC government is partly because was jilted through NAK's abrogation of the famous MOU!
And yet, Raila himself had rubbished his own MOU with Nyachae as he swang to the Kibaki camp with his now famous declaration of "Kibaki tosha". Politicians are like what we in Kisii call "Okong'o nyamenwa ebere" - they speak with both sides of their mouths; doublespeak in other words and messages keep changing depending of perceived political opportunity!
So you see, this is realpolik and has nothing to do with Aboge, Matunda or even Oloo. It has everything to do with power and who gets that power; objectivity of reforms debate has been lost.
Kenyans will choose their preference in November; and in their wisdom, I hope, they would have digested the full import of the vote they cast, hoping also that it will be an informed exercise. As it is now, it is a muddle, as even your note indicates - shooting the messenger! Oloo, I just pointed out the fact that the so called Orange revolution is Kanu realigning itself to its 2002 form; of course with neither Moi nor his stongman, the Total Man. Matunda Nyanchama
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 12:43:21 GMT 3
From: "Onyango Oloo" <oloo_wa_canada@yahoo.com> Date: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:38 am Subject: Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap/Matunda As you know, Matunda, I am a communist, and I have been one for almost twenty five years. That means that I consider that ALL mainstream politicians- Raila, Kibaki, Nyachae, Kiraitu, Awori, Ngilu,Matiba, Kombo, Balala- you name them have NO IDEOLOGICAL differences of a fundamental nature with each other. You know that I have critically engaged all of the above at one point or another. What I find fascinating is the fascination with Raila Odinga who is often portrayed as the opportunist par excellence. When people do that they remain silent over the fact that Mwai Kibaki, a founder of KANU, is one of the authors of the present undemocratic constititution- a man who served loyally the dictatorial regimes of Kenyatta and Moi from 1963 to 1992. Kibaki never resigned after the assassinations of Mboya and Kariuki during the Kenyatta regime, nor did he step down after the grisly killing of Ouko in 1990. He is the one, we often forget, who actually moved the motion to make Kenya a de jure one party state in 1982. Simon Nyachae of course was a career civil servant who served the colonialists as well as the first two dictators with distinction to the point where he graduated from being head of the civil service to being a cabinet minister. By the way, even after he left the Moi cabinet, he still remained one of Moi's most prominent business partners- a fact that remains to this day, unless I am mistaken. Need we remind anyone about the history of Njenga Karume and GEMA? My point is that I am actually sick and tired of the barely disguised anti- Luo bashing that goes on in this forum disguised as serious debate and objective commentary. Some of us used to criticize Raila Odinga in much more trenchant terms six or seven years ago and we were very critical when he merged with KANU and emerged the KANU Secretary General- our writings are in the public domain and can be dredged up by anyone with access to a good search engine. What is disturbing is the coded language that some of us can see right through. People on this forum seem to have taken their cue that this referendum is about Raila and his quest for power- they see themselves as the custodians of the Kibaki regime. Some of us prefer to be consistent- and we feel that we should look at what people who are opposed to the Wako Draft are saying. All those rallies in Garissa, Nyamira, Mombasa, Thika, Kakamega-are the people coming to these rallies all KANU and LDP supporters? That is such a grave insult to the collective intelligence of Kenyans. There are people like myself who are Marxists and we have problems with the draft- unfortunately all some people can see are my first and last names; they are people who HATE Raila's guts- Bob Awuor on KOL is an example- who can see through the lies of the YES campaign; Uhuru Kenyatta lost the Presidency in large part due to the mobilization work of people like Raila Odinga- do you think he is a dimwit who is about to join the LDP? What is happening in Kenya today is not that different from the consensus which developed in the year 2002. We all know that Kibaki was NOT the most progressive candidate that year- James Orengo for one, had paid his dues more than most of the people in that year's line up. However, Kibaki in 2002 was the one politician who symbolized the unity of purpose in the anti-KANU forces. Today, the man many Kenyans love to hate, Raila Odinga is seen by Kenyans from Mombasa to Chepkube, Mandera to Namanga as symbolizing the collective aspirations of Kenyans who want a democratic constitution. Have the NO forces been ordering the wananchi to attend their rallies at gun point? Is there any evidence that they are all being bused in from Bondo and Kibera? On these very forums I have called on Kenyan Leftists to form their OWN INDEPENDENT political party- as in independent of KANU, LDP, NAK, the two or three FORDS and all the mainstream parties. Further to that I have actually called on progressive forces to IGNORE the 2007 electoral contest for the presidency to concentrate on building a true national democratic movement. Here is a link to that essay: demokrasia-kenya.blogspot.com/2005/04/to-capture-peoples-power-ignore-200\7.html I have gone on the record with my critique of Raila Odinga's approach to mass action: demokrasia-kenya.blogspot.com/2005/05/ndugu-agwambo-mass-action-is-not-on\off.html I have critiqued Uhuru Kenyatta and KANU: demokrasia-kenya.blogspot.com/2005/06/uhurus-new-wine-is-decadent-in-kanu\s.html Therefore one should know where some of us are coming from. I do not need to defend Raila Odinga, Uhuru Kenyatta, William Ruto or any other mainstream Kenyan politician for that matter. But I will no longer keep silent as I watch people on this forum spew odious tribal bile under the guise of sticking it to Raila, Ruto and Uhuru. As a socialist who believes in the application of consistent democratic principles, we will critique these politicians (sometimes even more viciously than the tribalists who usually have nothing more than ukabila venom in their tanks) when it is necessary. On the other hand, I will support, I will celebrate these mainstream politicians when they echo, when they champion the democratic aspirations of the wananchi. That is why I did not hesitate to compose a ditty for Kibaki in December 2002- and I remember fairly well that the same people who today tag me as as the "LDP Chief Whip" who were then closeted supporters of KANU and other anti-NARC parties blasted me as a so called "court poet" yet I would do the same again tomorrow if Kibaki started living up to the aspirations that made wananchi vote for him. I agree with you that detention does not mean anything in the bigger scheme of things. I just wanted to remind the Raila bashers that he has probably sacrificed personally for Kenya's freedom than his detractors give him credit for- something I cannot say for other mainstream politicians who seem to be perennial favourites on this forum. Onyango Oloo Toronto
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 12:55:38 GMT 3
From: jkkioko@... Date: Mon Sep 26, 2005 2:26 am Subject: Re: [africa-oped] the fear mongering is rather cheap
Yes, Raila was detained THREE TIMES by Moi, the very man he later supported to the hilt during the KANU/NDP marriage. Moi frustrated Raila's bid for the Presidency by foisting Uhuru. Look what is happening now: Raila is in bed with Moi again. How inconsistent can one man get?
Kibaki, Nyachae, we know - they have never fooled anybody that they were hot-blooded revolutionaries. They have never scared people with Tsunamis.
With them, what you see is what you get. People elect them because they know them. They represent stability and acceptability - a fact that was obvious to Raila when he went round saying Kibaki Tosha. What don't you know about these people? They are an open book. In contrast, Raila is an enigma wrapped in a riddle. And his communist background shall stick with him always. All your hollow attempts to distance yourself from him are remarkable for their disingeniousness - you are just one communist trying to fool the people that you are not supporting another communist. Is this the way communists play Trojan horse?
And do not downplay the contribution of these Wazees to the country. You should be ashamed of yourself, really. If they had not made their contribution, Kenya would be a dirigiste enclave of poverty like North Korea, and you would probably be teaching your urchin offsprings to fish clandestinely in lake victoria because, guess what, even private fishing would be outlawed. Even your homemade finishing rod would be nationalized.
Karume? The biography of this man should be required reading in every MBA class in Kenya and Africa. He started his business empire selling charcoal. In contrast, the Odinga family got their family wealth by stealing from the Luo peasant shareholders of the Nyanza Thrift.
There are more heroes in that country than Jaramogi if you care to look for them. *******************
From: jkkioko@... Date: Mon Sep 26, 2005 3:53 am Subject: Re: [africa-oped] Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap/Matunda
Oyangos (I really don't know how many of you there are) - this long, rambling, missive cannot go unchallenged. A will just pick a few areas because a long rejoinder with quotes from yours will be truncated, and respond.
On Sun, September 25, 2005 9:38 pm, Onyango Oloo said: > As you know, Matunda, I am a communist, and I have been one for almost > twenty five years. That means that I consider that ALL mainstream politicians- Raila, Kibaki, Nyachae, Kiraitu, Awori, Ngilu,Matiba,Kombo, Balala- you name them have NO IDEOLOGICAL differences of a fundamental nature with each other.
The odd man out here is Raila. He was a communist once, will always be a communist until Kingdom come. He was sent by his communist father to communist East Germany, at a time when it would not have been hard for his father to send him to a nice college elsewhere. Upon his return, he associated with other known communists, engaged in clandestine revolutionary activities that cost lives and property, reared a Marxist beard, and graduated from jail - three times as per your count. He continues to campaign as if he is hell bent on carrying out a revolution. Raila's IDEOLOGICAL leanings are therefore quite clear.
> You know that I have critically engaged all of the above at one point > or another.
Leave yourself out of the picture. Your ubiquity in cyberspace should not fool you into believing that you are important in Kenyan national politics.
> What I find fascinating is the fascination with Raila Odinga who is > often portrayed as the opportunist par excellence.
What do you call a person who starts as a communist, makes a strategic move from communism to the democracy bandwagon in the 1990s, sees and seizes an opportunity to form a tribal party which he calls NDP to frustrate the ambitions of the illustrious Michael Wamalwa, sees and seizes the opportunity to appropriate Kisumu Molasses plant by forming a political marriage with his arch-enemy, Moi, sees and seizes an opportunity to be Prime Minister and enters into a secret undemocratic MOU with other politicians at night, and is now seeing and seizing the opportunity provided by a complicated legal document to misleading the people by choosing to interpret the constitutional draft for them rather than asking them to read and make their own informed decisions? He has even merged forces with Uhuru, the man who made him start singing Kibaki Tosha in the first place. To call him an opportunist per excellence is to be generous.
> When people do that they remain silent over the fact that Mwai Kibaki, > a founder of KANU, is one of the authors of the present undemocratic > constititution- a man who served loyally the dictatorial regimes of > Kenyatta and Moi from 1963 to 1992. Kibaki never resigned after the > assassinations of Mboya and Kariuki during the Kenyatta regime, nor > did he step down after the grisly killing of Ouko in 1990. He is the > one, we often forget, who actually moved the motion to make Kenya a > de jure one party state in 1982.
Which part of the current constitution, as ammended, is undemocratic? As for Kibaki, which specific human rights did he abuse? As for making Kenya a de jure one party state in 1982, you should thank him for trying to approximate Kenya to a communist state in reaction to the onslaught of communists like Raila's father who wanted to turn Kenya into a command state. The fond Soviet model was a one party state, wasn't it? You just got what you wanted. You had refused to work with others when Kenya was a de facto single party state, the same way you are refusing to work with others now, and Kibaki's move was the logical progression to prevent the country being run roughshod by marauding communists. And who, at the height of Moi's dictatorship, was his own man in Moi's cabinet? Lastly, in relation to resigning on principle, why hasn't Raila resigned after he was shortchanged on the MOU deal? Or is Raila the opportunist going to resign at the right opportunity?
> Simon Nyachae of course was a career civil servant who served the > colonialists as well as the first two dictators with distinction to > the point where he graduated from being head of the civil service to > being a cabinet minister. By the way, even after he left the Moi > cabinet, he still remained one of Moi's most prominent business > partners- a fact that remains to this day, unless I am mistaken.
Nyachae will go down in history as one Kenya's greatest administrators. He tried to run things the way he knew best how. He was amongst the very first Africans with some training to run a modern government, and his contribution was vital at a time when departing colonialists could not have cared less if the newly independent Kenya went to the dogs. As a matter of fact, he is on the cover, and is the subject of a book called AFRICAN SUCCESSES by David K. Leonard. So his role is already being recognized and will continue to be studied for a long time. In the US, it is people like Nyachae, former governors with admninistrative experience, who graduate into Senators, Commission Chairmen, Presidents, etc. But not in Kenya where communists are pulling them back and tearing them apart for no reason.
> Need we remind anyone about the history of Njenga Karume and GEMA?
What about this history? Karume is a man worth emulating. Even without the education you have, he conguered many obstacles to rise to the pinnacle of business and commerce. His companies provide livelihood to many people. We need more people like him. If we had more people like him, the poverty everyone talks about would be finished. Unfortunately, the educated ones just read Marx and lose their minds in the process. GEMA? How about Luo Union? and other tribal organizations of the time? These were amongst the very first civil societies, good things in your parlance, so you shouldn't complain too much.
> My point is that I am actually sick and tired of the barely disguised > anti- Luo bashing that goes on in this forum disguised as serious > debate and objective commentary.
I personally will continue to focus on Luo leaders like Raila to unmask them and expose them for what they really are. So you may continue to throw up and get tired. Just don't vomit on our shoes. We are not diplomats!
> Some of us used to criticize Raila Odinga in much more trenchant terms > six or seven years ago and we were very critical when he merged with > KANU and emerged the KANU Secretary General- our writings are in the > public domain and can be dredged up by anyone with access to a good > search engine.
We are old enough to judge whether you were trenchant enough in your self-declared criticism of Raila. Unfortunately, you were not. And that was six years ago, a lifetime in politics. What critical thing have said of him lately?
> What is disturbing is the coded language that some of us can see right > through. People on this forum seem to have taken their cue that this > referendum is about Raila and his quest for power- they see themselves > as the custodians of the Kibaki regime.
This referendum is about Raila's quest for power, nothing more, nothing less. Unfortunately, he will lose. He is telling enough lies to make a fool of himself. The question is what he will do next. A spent force is a dangerous thing.
> Some of us prefer to be consistent- and we feel that we should look > at what people who are opposed to the Wako Draft are saying. All > those rallies in Garissa, Nyamira, Mombasa, Thika,Kakamega-are the > people coming to these rallies all KANU and LDP supporters?
What kind of question is this? How are we to know unless we ask them? How do we know they are not ennui-stricken people going to be entertained by comical, proverb-heavy, idiom-driven, rhetoric of Raila and cohorts? We used to walk for miles to be entertained by 19 watoto keti chini films. Kenyans know the source of a good laugh from a mile. The Raila ensemble is the greatest entertainment in town. Let people have a good laugh. Or do you want to nationalize their sense of humor as well so that you can distribute it equitably?
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 13:20:02 GMT 3
From: "Onyango Oloo" <oloo_wa_canada@yahoo.com> Date: Mon Sep 26, 2005 6:18 am Subject: Responding to the Cartoonish Anti-Communism of One Kioko
"Kioko":
Anyone who justifies the emergence of Kenya as a de jure one party dictatorship and goes on to prop up Njenga Karume and Simeon Nyachae as paragons to be emulated deserves derisive dismissal coated with a copious dose of contempt.
Laughable as your exhortations are, I cede you the exclusive right of continuing to make a spectacle of yourself in these cyberspace exchanges.
Recycling 1960s era canards that transformed nationalists like Jaramogi Oginga Odinga into "communists" and baptized his offspring as "Marxists" on the strength of BEARDS they deigned to grow points to the paucity of thought and the immaturity of yodellers running on politically empty tanks.
Can you adduce ONE PIECE of evidence that Raila Odinga was once or has ever been a Marxist?
Studying in the the Soviet Union, East Germany does not qualify one to be a "socialist"- otherwise some of the most prominent right wing wind bags would be among Africa's leading "revolutionaries". Ironically, many of the most prominent Kenyan Marxists were educated in the United States and Canada. Perhaps one day, if you are interested in finding out about who were the bona fide communists in Kenya, drop me a private line and I will bring you up to speed.
In the year 2005, it is simply a little late in the day to be setting up "communist" bogey men to try and scare the readers on this forum. At the very least Kioko, I urge you to respect their intelligence; in fact you may be unwittingly coming across as simply unhinged with your fictional revisionist take on Kenya's contemporary history-which is hardly a closed book to compatriots on these fora.
For your information:
Jaramogi Oginga Odinga was NEVER a Marxist at any point in his life. He was a radical nationalist who also happened to be a fairly well off farmer and businessman. In class terms, he belonged to the upper echelons of Kenya's emerging middle class.
Raila Odinga was educated in the former East Germany as an engineer. Upon graduation he came back and became a lecturer at the university of Nairobi. Later on he became a senior bureaucrat/technocrat serving a parastatal of the Government of Kenya. To make a living, Raila and other members of the Odinga family owned and operated East African Spectre a company run along firm capitalist lines as a monopoly with a stranglehold on the region's gas cylinder market. Formerly keeping a very low profile, he burst into the national limelight when he was arrested in the aftermath of the coup and charged with treason. He was never brought to trial. Instead he was detained. Upon his release from prison he became very active in the national upsurge for political pluralism and was one of the core activists in the then emergent Forum for the Restoration of Democracy in Kenya. When that outfit split into its FORD-Kenya and FORD-Asili feuding wings, Raila followed his father in the former and was soon elected to parliament on its ticket in 1992. Neither the original FORD or any of its amoebic children were ever "communist" outfit. When Raila took over the little known NDP and transformed into a powerful electoral force, especially in Nyanza in the mid 1990s, there was nothing in its platform to indicate that it had any communist leanings whatsoever.
In other words it is simply a myth that Raila Odinga is or has ever been a "communist."
Some of us should know. Communists in Kenya are NOT THAT MANY- you can count us in our dozens rather than hundreds. We wish more Kenyan political leaders embraced our Marxist ways- and in fact we think that part of the quagmire and quandary Kenyan democrats find themselves in today is directly linked to the deep ingrained fear of "communism".
This infantile depiction of Raila Odinga as a communist and the slavish recitation of old red baiting staples is hilarious, especially when its derivative scribe tries to palm these turgid turds off as rare pearls of wisdom.
Onyango Oloo Toronto
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Post by kariukiwamathira on Sept 26, 2005 13:51:28 GMT 3
Gentlemen,
We are starting to behave like we are in political limbo which we are not. In my view all of us are politicians and are wise not to practice the 'art' of politics. The alliance that is LDP/KANU will end up as NAK/LDP has ended up .... 'a bunch of unspeakables all chasing the uneatable' while the country suffers from a lack of clear purpose. If we could pull off a complete boycott of alll the present MP's and elect completely new ones in 2007, we could just settle the 3rd revolution without bloodshed ..... the other option I would not want to dream of but ..... It just may come to that.
wa Mathira
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Post by kamalet on Sept 26, 2005 15:11:47 GMT 3
Oloo,
It is interesting that you can only see 'Raila-bashing' as being a trait of luo-bashing tribalism!! Would you agree if someone suggested that your bashing of Njenga Karume, Murungaru and Kiraitu is also tribalism based on 'gikuyu-bashing'?
As Aboge said, you perhaps should be the first person to bash these No campaigners for turning away from the purpose of their cause (if they have any!!) to making this a process for political entrenchment. I have insisted that the moment this was turned into a political process with a zero-sum game, then we were no longer talking about the needs of Wanjiku.
In the meantime, we can see all the cheerleading about what the possible success of the Orange campaign will bring - Kibaki and his gikuyu cohorts and the likes of Nyachae sucking up to them, and completely forgot what this issue was all about!
You can cheer Raila, Ruto Gideon and Uhuru, but be warned what their agenda is.....and you can be sure as sun rises every morning that Wanjiku features nowhere in their radar! You can say the same of all these politicians campaigning for Bananas.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 15:50:59 GMT 3
Kamale: If a big percentage of my closest political comrades were not from the Mount Kenya region perhaps your insidious insinuation above would have a shaky leg to stand on. You Kamale, have followed my writings on these forums for at least two years now and you therefore know that what you are saying above is BUNK. I have never been a cheerleader for Raila, Ruto, Uhuru or any mainstream politician for that matter. In fact if anything, the only politician that I have ever composed a praise song for is Mwai Kibaki- and here is the evidence: 216.17.145.92/uploads/2005/04/kurakwakibaki.mp3On more than one occasion I have said that Tumechoka! to all of the mainstream politicians. It is a mark of desperation to try and reduce this discussion to a tribal score keeping exchange between Gikuyus and Luos. Of course all of these people- the Railas, the Balalas, the Rutos, the Uhurus- they all have their overt and covert agendas- they are politicians- at least two of whom have aspired to be President. Some of us are NOT politicians, but political ACTIVISTS- adn the wanasiasa (try Mirugi, try any of them) who will be the first to educate you about the differences between the two sub-species. As we speak, I mulling my own response to the launch of the Orange Movement. Onyango Oloo Toronto
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 16:17:32 GMT 3
From: mtumishi orina <mtumishiorina@...> Date: Mon Sep 26, 2005 8:28 am Subject: Kioko, how come?
What kind of education is this that Mr "Kioko" received; Does he know the meaning of communism, revolution, change, development, business success. How come he simply does not? what is the meaning of all these terms to this fellow kenyan? Does this man know about colonialism, dictatorship, history, neocolonialism, underdevelopment, poverty, dependency, personal rule, privatization of the state, deprivation of the Kenyan Masses, pauperization, alienation, dominance as opposed to governance, or anything anywhere!. How can I write side by side with this man!. He has shocked me with his raw talent at hate mongering, garbage story telling and sheer lack of judgement. Some one needs to ask "kioko" to first define or provide his meanings before he continues dangerously to rape the history of our struggle and the vision for national transformation. I am sorry, Orina Nyamwamu
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 16:22:20 GMT 3
From: "nmatunda" <matunda@...> Date: Mon Sep 26, 2005 9:09 am Subject: Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap/Matunda
Oloo,
The verdict of Raila or any other politician remains with Kenyans.
I just wanted to point out the fact that politics is a game of strange bed fellows as political interests converge. In 2002 those of Raila and Kibaki converged; Raila feels used and has gone to the drawing board and, of course as always, in the name of Wanjiku.
One final comment on this: Raila's politics is admirable, especially his ability to mobilize, let alone the abundant energy he invests in organizing and agitating. In the past, he has used this energy in attempts to overthrow the government (1970(?) and 1982). His evolution to date has seen him exercise constitutional politics and that is good! I just wish that he could use the energy at the next level: for the socio-economic transformation of the Wanjiku's life! By this I mean capital mobilization to create employment that would place food on Wanjiku's table, offer her health benefits, reduce insecuity in the country, provide better roads, etc.
But again, the allure of power is just too great! And we know that lording over illiterate, economically deprived citizens, etc. is not a politician's anathema.
Matunda Nyanchama
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Post by kamalet on Sept 26, 2005 17:02:40 GMT 3
You miss my point Oloo. Merely because you have kikuyu friends does not make you a lesser tribalist if you are one, and I do not think you keep them as instruments for defence.
My point is that you cannot see Raila bashing in any other light apart from tribalism - at least that is what I have gleaned in your defence of the man whenever an attack on the man is made!
You are happy to accuse the Murungarus as tribalist, and I have no reason to offer them any defence ( they can only defend themselves the way you do!) - but what if they associated themselves with their Luo friends? Would that mean they are not tribal?
I think these politicians are sufficiently thick-skinned to take the crap we throw at them. But I find it dishonest when people suggest that Raila has not used the luo community to advance his political ambitions, and when this is mentioned, then it becomes luo bashing, i.e. this is a suggestion of lack of independence of mind on the part of luos!!
Unfortunately Oloo, it is not just Raila who has used his community to achieve political goals, and I think if you suffer historical amnesia, the present constitutional campaigns should be a sufficient guide. All we see are tribal chieftains using their constitutencies to gather numbers to promote their political agenda. I do not agree that the Banana or Orange campaigns have anything going for Kenyans as you suggest - these people do not care about you and me, so quit defending evil!
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 26, 2005 18:39:03 GMT 3
Unfortunately, I can read and write and every single day I see an attack that is infused with overt and covert tribalism.
For instance, you are in Nairobi.
Can you please explain to me the meaning and the context of the remark, nyamu cia ruguru?
You can call me a tribalist if you want.
That alone will not make me one- nor will it erase the Luophobic hysteria that I was referrring to.
My conscience is very clear.
Onyango Oloo Toronto
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Post by roughrider on Sept 26, 2005 20:51:16 GMT 3
I was in Kakamega and Kisumu to witness the last of the rallies in first phase. These people like Matunda, Aboge and kamale can talk till the cows come back home.... but its an entirely different, exhilarating experience to sit in that dancing crowd; to smell the sweat and listen to the excited chatter. It opens ones eyes to see children piggy back on fathers, craning their necks to listen and nodding...
And when the music is put on the dancing is pulsating, throbbing, it brings you alive.
What is going on in Kenya is not about Moi or Uhuru or Raila or anyone for that matter. Its about people setting the agenda and the leaders listening and echoing what the people want. In fact it has never been about personality - its about who is championing the right thing at the moment...
I heard one person in KK say: 'siku hizi tunajua, mtu akileta kichwa ngumu tunasukuma yeye nje tunaweka mwingine'. I nodded in silent agreement. '^^ akierevuka, mwerevy yumashakani'
The juha kalulu leaders are in trouble. Even Uhuru or Raila: If they become presidents and begin to 'diss' the people, then those same crowds will bay for their political blood. The battle for a new constitution must necessarily become a battle to remove Mwai Kibaki and Moism (do not confuse with Moi); this is especially true if they are seen as stumbling blocks.
I did not see Matunda, Aboge or Kamale complain when we said Moi had to be removed fopr frustrating reform.
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Post by kabonyo on Sept 27, 2005 15:00:06 GMT 3
What exactly is a tribalist? Am I a tribalist if I support a political leader who happens to belong to the same tribe as I do? Alot of people are assuming that the only way to show that you are not a tribalist is to criticize every politician who comes from the same tribe as you, or at least to ignore any good that comes from your home area. That is definitely a narrow view of tribalism!
The fact is that most of the current politicians we have are self serving, regardless of tribe. They really do not care for the people who they whip up to tribal frenzies. Raila and co are right now taking advantage of the widespread disillusionment with the government, and gaining political mileage. The Kiraitu's on the other hand are zeroing in on Raila's overt thirst for power. If the situation were reversed we would be seeing the same thing happening , just with different players.
We cant trust either side to tell us the truth. Neither side has the moral right to criticize the other and we know it> We also know that the dizzying shifts in alliance will not end with the Orange Democratic Movement. So, if I blindly follow Mungatana's lead today, what am I supposed to think and say tomorrow when he chants "Raila Tosha"?
None of these people are saints or deliverers, and anyone who thinks they are is delusional. Once in a while they do surprise us with some act or other that appears altruistic, but in the main they are in it for their own ends.
Back to the tribalism issue, everybody seems to be in a hurry to label others tribalist while claiming to be national looking. The fact remains that if you are going to criticize Raila on the basis that he is a Luo( instead of the fact that he is a selfish power hungry leader who does not have the interests of Kenyans or his community at heart, even though he incites them to tribal feelings) then you are being tribal. Again if you think of Murungaru as a guy who is just behaving like Gema people do( instead of looking at the fact that he is a selfish power hungry leader who does not have the interests of Kenyans or his community at heart, even though he incites them to tribal feelings) then you are reacting as a tribalist. That ,people, is what they want us to do, because it is in tribal politics and not real issues that our present leaders can thrive.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 28, 2005 2:10:30 GMT 3
From: "Felix Nyatete" <fnyatete@...> Date: Mon Sep 26, 2005 12:17 pm Subject: RE: [africa-oped] Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap - correction! il
Thank you Dr Matunda. You are seeing things the same way am seeing. Come November the date for the Referendum vote, I see the "YES" romping. Reasons are obvious. First, Kenyans are now seeing tribal division with population numbers regrouping. KANU and LDP read: Kalenjins and Luos coming together to fight other Kenyans of the non Nilo-Hamites blood in the same way they merged when Raila's NDP merged with KANU to fight the oposition.Secondly Kenyans are still traumatized by any mention of the name "MOI." Raila's "No" campaign has blundered big time when it has accepted Moi and his Uhuru Kenyatta in this referendum campaign. Ordinary Kenyans do not want to hear Moi again after impoverishing them with his 24 years of mismanagement and misrule. In fact Kenyans are better of with Kibaki who can protect them from tribal clashes which Moi used against other Kenyans outside his Kalenjin tribe. Raila Odinga right now is like an unsettled hurricane. He is neither here nor there. He knows he cannot be electected president of Kenya. That is why he desperately wants to form any alliance even an amorphous one so that he can be named at least premier. President Kibaki I predict may continue as president to 2012 as his last and final term if Kenyans care to read his math. Right now he rules with the old constitution which he is fooling around with. (From Bomas to a committee to parliament to referendum to parliament and to himself perhaps... hela 2007.) In 2007 of course after he has been re-elected, he will now accept a new constitution which puts no restrictions on presidential candidate's age. Since the new constitution takes effect then, he shall technically have a second term to run in 2012.Meanwhile let Hon Raila Odinga now 59 be reminded also that he is not any younger than he thinks. President Kibaki and Nyachae are only 12 and 11 years older than he is respectively. Which means they are almost in the same age bracket? Kenyans now desperately need good roads, schools and food, water, shelter and peace among various tribes living together. They don't care too much who their president is or even where he or she comes from as long as their needs are are guaranteed. And I think Kibaki is trying if only he were given time to concentrate on his job.
Félix Nyatète
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 28, 2005 2:13:04 GMT 3
From: "Odingo Odak" <odak@...> Date: Tue Sep 27, 2005 1:20 am Subject: the fear mongering is rather cheap - correction!
Ndugu Felix Nyatete, While you are seeing things the same way Ndugu Matunda Nyanchama is seeing, consider the following:
The Orange No leading lights are: Raila Odinga, Uhuru Kenyatta, Kalonzo Musyoka, Najib Balala, Ochillo Ayacko, Anyang’ Nyong’o, Musalia Mudavadi, Omingo Magara, Bonaya Godana, Julius Sunkuli, William Rutto et al.
In that group I don’t see a Luo-Kalenjin (Nilo-Hamite Alliance) you and your fellow destructors want to see.
I see in that group a Rainbow Alliance representing Kenyans from Coast to Ukambani to Kikuyu-land to Western Province to NEP to both Luo and Abagusii Nyanza.
The only people supporting the YES campaign are the few Mount Kenya Mafia and Nyachae loyalists from Abagusii Nyanza.
It’s a wishful thinking that you see “the YES team romping to victory” come November 21, 2005.
The Orange Revolution is a Kenyan affair. There is no way you will reduce it to tribe groups.
OO
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 28, 2005 2:17:07 GMT 3
From: "nmatunda" <matunda@...> Date: Tue Sep 27, 2005 9:45 am Subject: Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap - correction!
Odak,
I will entertain an intellectual argument, rather than cheap generalities of the kind you have below. You know well that my people, the Abagusii, have always demonstrated varied positions in their voting patterns. The fact that a NO rally was held in Nyamira (my home town) demonstrates how diverse support or otherwise is for the Wako Draft. And by the way, in the heydays of Oginga Odinga's Ford-K, my constituency voted overwhelmingly for Jaramogi. In the Greater Gusii, Kibaki DP received more votes than Moi, despite that the Moi machine was the best oiled!
My advice to you is simple: argue, use logic and don't cheapen yourself by diverting argument to the person..
I will also refer you to read something on psychology called "Freudian slip", which is clearly demonstrated in your statement below: just because the Luo vote in one block, invariably, doesn't mean that all other Kenyan ethnic groups do the same. This monolithic thinking can be good in mobilizing a community against a common cause - disease, poverty, war against a common enemy, etc. It is an anti-thesis of democracy!
One final note, on the issue of reforms (by the way I have studied the draft extensively and have found no reason to change my position), my thought are in line with those of a number of people like Koigi, Kibaki, Mukhisa Kituyi, Charity Ngilu, and many YES proponents. It doesn't mean that I agree with them on every score. As an example, I would like Kibaki to prosecute Goldenberg, Anglo Leasing thieves and many other scammers that have been looting the country dry! I disagree with the position the government has taken in the fight against corruption and would have liked a faster pace in creating mwananchi's confidence in the government's ability to clean up existing mess.
And it is the reason why I would like YES to win (and they may yet win as the campaign ebbs and flows over the next two months!) so that we can get on with other business. This politicking hasn't added an extra piece of ugali to Wanjiku's plate; and our people are suffering because of the intransigence of some whose only interest is power for themselves; in the name of Wanjiku!
Matunda Nyanchama
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 28, 2005 2:22:15 GMT 3
From: "asego2002" <asego2002@...> Date: Tue Sep 27, 2005 10:24 am Subject: Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap - correction! >As an example, I would like Kibaki to prosecute Goldenberg, Anglo Leasing thieves and many other scammers that have been looting the country dry! matunda,kibaki cannot prosecute goldenberg and anglo leasing. why ? the major beneficiaries of goldenberg like saitoti, ringera, dr. kuria and even bosire (he continues to earn from it) amongst others are all in the yes camp. to prosecute anglo-leasing is to prosecute lucy kibaki, jimmy kibaki, judy kibaki, murungaru, murungi, ndwiga, mureithi and maybe kibaki himself. in a nutshell, lets get over this wishfull thinking....the current system and the wako-kibaki system are all frameworks for successful looting and grabbing of private, community and national resources by those in power. otherwise how do you explain the fact that kibaki, kenyatta, moi and their friends like nyachae own 90% of productive land in kenya ? > because of the intransigence of some whose only interest is power for themselves; in the name of Wanjiku! matunda you can do better than this. the people who are interested in power are those who do not want to give it up by all means. as a way of compromise, raila told kibaki "lets give the people bomas and wako draft to choose from. in that way the people WOULD HAVE A choice to make and the country would remain united whichever side wins". kibaki refused. kibaki was delegate nr 1 but never bothered to attend bomas. now he has time to campaign for a document whose content is not only sub-standard but has signs of amateurism and intellectual deficiency. otherwise how do you expain the inconsistencies and contradictions in the draft. did wako not deliver the draft to the printer 5 days before the deadline ? what was the hurry ? when kibaki visited bush, he told kenyans to forget dual citizenship. last week in nyc he was telling kenyans how happy they should be because the new document caters for dual citizenship. is that the mind of a political hawker or the mind of a leader? tell me. when the leader of a country has a lying mind, the country degenerates to a level of self desceit. we want upright leaders. you mentioned sometime back that raila odinga has changed parties so many times. who hasn't ? do kenyan parties have consistent ideologies ? no. the only thing consistent in a consistent politician in kenya is his view towards national issues. raila has been very consistent on this. kibaki is now telling kenyans to read what he hasn't read. he is telling us to read when he denied us schools when he was finance minister and vp. c'mon lets be real! finally: only these options are left. 1. kibaki's so-called middle ground succeed to postpone the referendum by way of ammendment to the referendum act 2. kibaki uses the judiciary or eck to stop the referendum 3. orange wins. kibaki implements bomas OR KIBAKI MUST GO. kenyans have reached a point of no return. unedited... of asego bay
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 28, 2005 2:26:16 GMT 3
From: "nyakwarotiya" <nyakwarotiya@...> Date: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:01 am Subject: Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap - correction!
> finally: only these options are left.
1. kibaki's so-called middle ground succeed to postpone the > referendum by way of ammendment to the referendum act > > 2. kibaki uses the judiciary or eck to stop the referendum > > 3. orange wins. kibaki implements bomas OR KIBAKI MUST GO. > > kenyans have reached a point of no return.>
wuon ojanga,
allow me to add a fourth version. and as you are well aware, i like looking at things at how they are rather than as they are supposed to be. ps you will forgive any typos,the moment i hit send i will be running to catch a mathree to mombasa road.i am running late for an app...
the scenario i am talking about is the possibility of a banana/yes win. if it does happen, it could be the worst case scenario. i will show why. a yes win would mean that an active majority will be unhappy with the outcome. the ckrc act, recall, allows for the slimest win ever. thus, if central, part of eastern and part of nairobi deliver the yes, the majority in nyanza, bonde la ufa, coast and part of western will feel short changed. and this has been my only cause of worry. we may yet see very ugly scenes after the referendum. i am on record in kol, responding to the posting of nd. bob-a calling on the president to step in to forestall the problem that lies ahead, to help hammer a compromise. one more thing that you probably did not give much thought: even if the orange does win, mr kibaki WILL NOT resign. true, conventional wisdom will demand that he does so. but trust me, emilio will NOT.
in my peroration, let me say this: you recall that a number of times, i have said, based on my observations of matters from this vantage position, that the NO vote has the numbers in its favour. but i have also warned in equal measure that it is a little early for them to uncork their champagne bottle.
i am reading nd bob-k- the epitome of sobriety in online discussions- concomitantly in kol. i am tempted to engage him, but i have got to run.
be good....
n`otiya
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 28, 2005 2:30:39 GMT 3
From: "nmatunda" <matunda@...> Date: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:06 am Subject: Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap - correction! Ojanga, All I am saying is this: let's get over with the reforms issue and focus on what ails Wanjiku. Until this headline-catching imbroglio is over, we are not going to pay attention to issues of corrup tion, education, healthcare, etc. By the way where have all these Orangemen been when Goldenberg was stuck in a muddle, Anglo Leasing was happening under their noses, etc.! Weren't they enjoying their gas guzzling 4x4s cars, huge salaries, benefits/etc (including corruptly getting health care for their concubines)- and in the processing fleezing Wanjiku? How come I haven't heard Kalonzo raise an issue on Goldenberg? How come Raila can sit opposite Saitoti in cabinet when (if indeed it is true) he "knows" that the prof perpetrated the Goldenberg scam? How come .... How come Orangemen include Musalia Mudavadi under whose signature/orders Goldenberg sucked the government dry! What I have heard from some quarters is that Goldenberg money bought NARC's way into power and even the Orangemen know it; they benefited from that and they cannot dare speak up! And tell me who is less corrupt than the other! The point of no return reached is that we shall face the referendum! so let's face it and get over with it! This debate has lost focus and the true colours of both Orange and Banana campaigns will come through, as indeed they have started to emerge; it turns out, even as your response below indicates, that the Orangemen are focused on a civilian coup detat and not the merits or otherwise of the Wako Draft. And once Kenyans know this, they will vote for an outcome that will confound many, despite the so large sea-like Orange rallies. Time will tell and that is not a paradox. Asego, there is something called plateauing: as in peaking and having no more momentum to rise farther and where the only place to go is down! One party in this debate will end up extremely disappointed when results come in November. Let the campaign roll! Enough said! Matunda Nyanchama
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Sept 28, 2005 2:34:25 GMT 3
From: jkkioko@... Date: Tue Sep 27, 2005 11:16 am Subject: Re: [africa-oped] Re: the fear mongering is rather cheap - correction! n'Otiya:
Ok, supposing the Bananas win. Why should the people who you mention - in Nyanza and elsewhere - resort to chaos? Are they not democrats? If the Oranges win, shouldn't those in Central, Eastern, Nairobi, etc., also be justified to cause hell? The point is the one you don't want to accept - that the Orange team has not exhibited much democratic culture and apparently not considering all scenarios.
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