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Post by Omwenga on Feb 8, 2013 11:19:32 GMT 3
b6k, Name calling for me reduces people I otherwise read to the ignore/don't respond to column. If you wish to engage in debate with yours truly, drop the name calling; calling us "political vultures" or "cheerleaders" does not advance a single point in debate except in the minds of those who can't think or are incapable of thinking for themselves and even though there are those here on Jukwaa who may fit the bill, most don't and therefore would require sober, intelligent or at least well reasoned arguments instead of cheap shots and other useless blabbering. Put another way, to those who prefer intelligent or at least well reasoned arguments or points in debate, name calling is a distraction that renders whatever else is said useless as it's either ignored or read with little or not much thought to it considering the mindset of the one stating it as reflected in the name calling is not worth giving that much thought to what they say. I know we are getting close to the finish line but for those of us who have kept this above bar in civility and quality debate even as we disagree, we can cross that line with the same high level of civility and debate. Omwenga, where is the name calling exactly? A political vulture hovers in the air awaiting its prey's imminent death & hopes to cash out on their demise. It is simply an analogy not stated as a fact to be taken literally but figuratively. I could've used UK's hyena waiting for the swinging arms of a walking man to fall off to make a meal out of them. Insult, or flowery language? Your guess is as good as mine. As for "cheerleader", is there anything really wrong with that? You are constantly cheering for your side hence you are a cheerleader. At least I did not resort to the MM zinger "groupie" which rubbed many the wrong way on Jukwaa. You on the other hand are very comfortable using his "clueless" when referring to Cheshirecat which interestingly enough you do not consider an insult. Hmmm.... b6k.
I'll give you calling us "political vultures" or "cheerleaders" is not up there on the matusi level as some of the worst things I have been called but it doesn't settle well with me and thus my reaction the way I did. By your response, I can tell you meant no ill or malice but on a lighter note, let me tell you I have told someone in the past a word I used was not an insult even though generally deemed to be because I properly used it when and only when it's supposed to be used and I meant it. I say so in agreeing with you strictly speaking you can say I am a cheerleader for my causes but knowing cheerleaders I know where skimpy skirts and have pom poms on their hands, well, you can understand why I can get offended being referred to one the strong, masculine old man from Gusiiland I am. ;D I am sure someone would use the same word derogatorily and they have so here it's about context or, as in the example I refer to above, whether the word has been properly used in which case it's not an insult. Now, on you and Cheshirecat thinking or saying I insulted him, I have asked him how but you seem to suggest my use of "clueless" in referring to him was an insult; it was not and here is why: Had I said he was clueless and left it there, that would have been an insult akin to saying he's uninformed and knows nothing. However, this is not what I said. Rather, I said, based on what he said to me in response to what I said about visas being used as part of carrots and sticks for some key allies, that he was clueless as to how this is done, if he thought this was the silliest thing he had seen on Jukwaa. That's to say, he doesn't know this is done or how it's done and if he does, then I'll withdraw the "clueless" label and say he knows. If he doesn't know, and he seems to still suggest he doesn't know, then I have suggested he looks into this and he'll find out and have even given him pointers where the best source for that information can be found. Now, where is the insult in that?
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Post by b6k on Feb 8, 2013 11:37:17 GMT 3
Omwenga, where is the name calling exactly? A political vulture hovers in the air awaiting its prey's imminent death & hopes to cash out on their demise. It is simply an analogy not stated as a fact to be taken literally but figuratively. I could've used UK's hyena waiting for the swinging arms of a walking man to fall off to make a meal out of them. Insult, or flowery language? Your guess is as good as mine. As for "cheerleader", is there anything really wrong with that? You are constantly cheering for your side hence you are a cheerleader. At least I did not resort to the MM zinger "groupie" which rubbed many the wrong way on Jukwaa. You on the other hand are very comfortable using his "clueless" when referring to Cheshirecat which interestingly enough you do not consider an insult. Hmmm.... b6k.
I'll give you calling us "political vultures" or "cheerleaders" is not up there on the matusi level as some of the worst things I have been called but it doesn't settle well with me and thus my reaction the way I did. By your response, I can tell you meant no ill or malice but on a lighter note, let me tell you I have told someone in the past a word I used was not an insult even though generally deemed to be because I properly used it when and only when it's supposed to be used and I meant it. I say so in agreeing with you strictly speaking you can say I am a cheerleader for my causes but knowing cheerleaders I know where skimpy skirts and have pom poms on their hands, well, you can understand why I can get offended being referred to one the strong, masculine old man from Gusiiland I am. ;D I am sure someone would use the same word derogatorily and they have so here it's about context or, as in the example I refer to above, whether the word has been properly used in which case it's not an insult. Now, on you and Cheshirecat thinking or saying I insulted him, I have asked him how but you seem to suggest my use of "clueless" in referring to him was an insult; it was not and here is why: Had I said he was clueless and left it there, that would have been an insult akin to saying he's uninformed and knows nothing. However, this is not what I said. Rather, I said, based on what he said to me in response to what I said about visas being used as part of carrots and sticks for some key allies, that he was clueless as to how this is done, if he thought this was the silliest thing he had seen on Jukwaa. That's to say, he doesn't know this is done or how it's done and if he does, then I'll withdraw the "clueless" label and say he knows. If he doesn't know, and he seems to still suggest he doesn't know, then I have suggested he looks into this and he'll find out and have even given him pointers where the best source for that information can be found. Now, where is the insult in that? Omwenga, as you are my brother from the Gusii highlands rest assured I would not insult you at a personal level lest we end up in a long drawn out vendatta that may not be settled for generations to come ;D Sadly by taking the word cheerleader to refer only to the fairer sex you are the one who misses the point & thus turns a rather benign word into an insult. A cheerleader is, as you have stated, someone who is passionate about a cause or a team. Might I remind you that to this day in American sports there are male cheerleaders as well. These guys do all the heavy work of lifting all those buxom, nubile, chicks & twirling them around while, I daresay, having a pretty good view of the said chick.....I should leave it at that before I get a warning from KK Truth be told, one of the most famous cheerleaders in Andover ended up being the President of the United States. Here's a picture of a young George "Dubya" Bush in action, so you are in good company... So, oyominto Omwange, cheerleading is an equal opportunity occupation & no one should feel ashamed of cheering for the team, ama? As for "clueless", I will allow Cheshirecat to take you on when he is next online. Coming from MM's arsenal of labels I can see how he may object to the inference that he is without a clue ;D
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 8, 2013 12:01:03 GMT 3
b6k.
I'll give you calling us "political vultures" or "cheerleaders" is not up there on the matusi level as some of the worst things I have been called but it doesn't settle well with me and thus my reaction the way I did. By your response, I can tell you meant no ill or malice but on a lighter note, let me tell you I have told someone in the past a word I used was not an insult even though generally deemed to be because I properly used it when and only when it's supposed to be used and I meant it. I say so in agreeing with you strictly speaking you can say I am a cheerleader for my causes but knowing cheerleaders I know where skimpy skirts and have pom poms on their hands, well, you can understand why I can get offended being referred to one the strong, masculine old man from Gusiiland I am. ;D I am sure someone would use the same word derogatorily and they have so here it's about context or, as in the example I refer to above, whether the word has been properly used in which case it's not an insult. Now, on you and Cheshirecat thinking or saying I insulted him, I have asked him how but you seem to suggest my use of "clueless" in referring to him was an insult; it was not and here is why: Had I said he was clueless and left it there, that would have been an insult akin to saying he's uninformed and knows nothing. However, this is not what I said. Rather, I said, based on what he said to me in response to what I said about visas being used as part of carrots and sticks for some key allies, that he was clueless as to how this is done, if he thought this was the silliest thing he had seen on Jukwaa. That's to say, he doesn't know this is done or how it's done and if he does, then I'll withdraw the "clueless" label and say he knows. If he doesn't know, and he seems to still suggest he doesn't know, then I have suggested he looks into this and he'll find out and have even given him pointers where the best source for that information can be found. Now, where is the insult in that? Omwenga, as you are my brother from the Gusii highlands rest assured I would not insult you at a personal level lest we end up in a long drawn out vendatta that may not be settled for generations to come ;D Sadly by taking the word cheerleader to refer only to the fairer sex you are the one who misses the point & thus turns a rather benign word into an insult. A cheerleader is, as you have stated, someone who is passionate about a cause or a team. Might I remind you that to this day in American sports there are male cheerleaders as well. These guys do all the heavy work of lifting all those buxom, nubile, chicks & twirling them around while, I daresay, having a pretty good view of the said chick.....I should leave it at that before I get a warning from KK Truth be told, one of the most famous cheerleaders in Andover ended up being the President of the United States. Here's a picture of a young George "Dubya" Bush in action, so you are in good company... So, oyominto Omwange, cheerleading is an equal opportunity occupation & no one should feel ashamed of cheering for the team, ama? As for "clueless", I will allow Cheshirecat to take you on when he is next online. Coming from MM's arsenal of labels I can see how he may object to the inference that he is without a clue ;D Okay Oyominto b6k,Maybe I won't take much offense the next time someone refers to yours truly a a cheerleader; incidentally it's the skimpily dressed females that come to mind when I hear the mention of cheerleaders perhaps due to the introduction of my eyes to them simultaneously with the Dallas Cowboys back in the youthful days when ogling was in order so you sate very near Center not to miss any action. I don't think they had men in those squads otherwise it would have been an automatic turn-off of the ogling but could be wrong. This is now in the past...we have more serious staff ahead as in yet again successful Raila and Cord team visit to Coast starting today.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Feb 8, 2013 18:10:41 GMT 3
It is around 6 pm Friday February 8th as I keyboard these lines.
On the Capital FM news I hear my name sake the Secretary General of TNA thundering a demand for an immediate public apology from "junior officer" Carson for "contradicting" President Barack Hussein Obama.
I chuckle, shaking my head.
I wonder:
Is it possible that Johnnie Carson seasoned diplomat and senior US bureaucrat that he is, would have convened an international teleconference call without the knowledge of White House operatives?
Is it possible that Barack Obama himself would have issued his original message without input from Carson in the first place?
I am very naive about these matters of international relations.
Can someone please educate me?
Onyango Oloo Nairobi
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Post by joblesscorner on Feb 8, 2013 18:41:13 GMT 3
From White house Deskwww.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/02/05/president-obamas-message-people-kenyaGrant T. Harris is the Special Assistant to the President and Senior Director for African Affairs In these videotaped remarks, President Obama delivers a clear message to the people of Kenya: the upcoming elections are a historic opportunity for Kenyans to stand together, as a nation, for peace and progress, and for the rule of law. The President has strong ties to the people of Kenya. From visiting his father’s village to touring the country as a U.S. Senator, he has a deep and personal interest in seeing Kenya flourish. Kenyans have made remarkable progress since the devastating violence that followed the elections five years ago. Lives and communities have been rebuilt, the economy has rebounded, and Kenyans have peacefully stood together to pass a historic constitution and advance important political reforms. While the international community has assisted these efforts, the Kenyan people have stood together to solidify the rule of law and put Kenya on a path to greater prosperity. As Kenyans prepare for the March elections, President Obama urges the people of Kenya to put aside tribal and ethnic differences; to clearly reject intimidation and violence; to address electoral disputes through Kenya’s courts, rather than on the streets; and to come together as a nation on the 50th anniversary of Kenyan independence. It is a moment to put strife and impunity firmly in the past, and to embrace a bright and peaceful future. The eyes of the world will be on Kenya this March, and the United States stands with the Kenyan people during this historic moment. As President Obama has stated, “to all that are willing to walk this path of progress, you will continue to have a strong friend and partner in the United States of America.”
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Post by Deleted on Feb 8, 2013 19:15:04 GMT 3
Look for an airlifting of people from regions and areas that voted right and an individualized punishment of those from areas that voted wrong including denial of visas to travel to any of these countries were it to come to that.
Do you realize how ridiculous the above statement is? It's got to be the silliest thing I have ever seen on this board. How will visa officers know how someone voted? very very ridiculous comment. i asked the same question. and answered that omwenga means that what he (also ridiculously) refers to as "civilized nations" will sanction individual Kenyans based on their ethnicity.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 8, 2013 19:29:51 GMT 3
You couldn't have been more right. Here is another of Otishotish's comrades, very incomprehensible, he does not seem to even know what his own position is. These guys are just confused, very confused. Hmmm. "No contact unless it is essential" is the key phrase there. One would imagine if ICC suspects Uhuruto continue cooperating with the ICC, & heaven forbid, actually win the election, then the envoy may deem it essential to meet with them B6K,I sense these guys have climbed down from the high horse they had mounted a few moons ago and are looking for a soft landing. Here is the other one from France: elections.nation.co.ke/news/-/1631868/1688630/-/p85r7mz/-/index.htmlI will take this "essential contact" to mean 'all is well' because, in any case the Kenyan State House has never been a chibuku brewing den where any dick tom and harry stops by at any time they want to quench their thirst. It is rather a premise for essential contact and serious business transaction. In effect, we have recently been treated to a lot of noise from these same ambassadors that Kibaki has made it very hard for them to hang-around statehouse. So there you have it, an UhuRuto government is coming in two very short weeks and everything has to be done to ensure that everyone is on board.
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 8, 2013 19:32:22 GMT 3
Political vultures, cheerleaders, tribal visas, targeted airlifts ... Wow. This discussion is finally getting to be exciting.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 8, 2013 21:48:57 GMT 3
Otishotish, The American position is confused. Obama's Tele-letter to Kenya, very neutral, is a different import from this overtly ominous Carson breathing fire. the positions are not sycronised. I think that is due to transition modalities, that is the vacuum as Clinton exits, and Kerry makes up his mind on priorities and cronies. Jakaswanga: I don't see where the confusion is. First, I think it would be highly inappropriate for Obama to make a statement of that sort; he has to appear to be above the fray. Second, especially given the Kenyan connection, you an be sure that Carson would not be talking like that unless Obama knew about it. Obama believes in tough, silent love. E.g. you will never hear him say anything about US aid to Kenya, but did you know that one USAID's biggest problem in relation to aid to Kenya is that it has grown so fast under Obama that they have trouble hiring Washington-based staff quickly enough to deal with the rise? But, of course, if things "go wrong", it the junior fellows take the heat. Even Americans know how to ensure that baba is safi kama pamba. ;D I don't think the message could have been any clearer. This is very different from my Other Country, where, as far as I know, contingency plans are in place but will not be talked about. But we usually agree with the USA on such matters, so .... Otishotish, Obama is already inappropriate in talking the way he did. But I can give him the benefit of doubt due to his Kenyan roots --as you say. But the truth is Obama has no track-record of supporting democracy in Afrika. Museveni rigged, Kagame rigged, Zenawi rigged. Clinton tossed them cheers on behalf of Obama and they formed the cornerstones of US-African engagement. And it took Obama some time to come around to the brotherhood winning a fair election in Egypt. But he has Kenyan blood, has traveled in our matatus and gone to Russia hospital in Kisumu. He may actually really care. He may be genuine. But the foreign policy of a super-power is too grave a matter to rest on the emotions of the president. Ancestry calls or not. Yes, POTUS wields a big stick which it usually uses to impose the US will upon others. And we must watch it, or out butts could really get whipped. It is Power, and Powerful. But our interest as a nation is not the first priority of the Carsons of this world. By the way what did Carson say, when Ugandan presidential candidate Besigye was clobbered like a pick-pocket in mob justice by M7's intels; or when a presidential candidate was found with his throat cut in a banana plantation in Rwanda? Any record of lectures on DEMOCRACY? Power is talking to us, that is it. Most will tremble and cow, a few will calculate their chances. Yet more will shrug. We will see. Sh!t happens in life. Daily. NB: Stop making Obama look like a wasteful fool ;D. He has been pumping so much USAID money into Kenya like Santa Claus? Did he check the Kenyan listing on the corruption index? and see that we squander 30% plus of our state revenues on corruption? ---Sacked all our nurses and registrars and teachers in labour disputes! Surely he is not that hard-pressed to waste American taxpayer's money! Tough silent love? This most powerful Luo in the world should just have sent Carson to Kibaki for a meeting with all candidates some time back and read them the riot act. Like he sent a message to Bibi Netanyahu before the elections. Attack Iran, you are on your own --even if it costs me a second term! And there was enough something in it, to inform Bibi he could not call this bluff. Any reason he is all soft on Kenya?
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 8, 2013 22:06:43 GMT 3
It is around 6 pm Friday February 8th as I keyboard these lines. On the Capital FM news I hear my name sake the Secretary General of TNA thundering a demand for an immediate public apology from "junior officer" Carson for "contradicting" President Barack Hussein Obama.
I chuckle, shaking my head. I wonder: Is it possible that Johnnie Carson seasoned diplomat and senior US bureaucrat that he is, would have convened an international teleconference call without the knowledge of White House operatives? Is it possible that Barack Obama himself would have issued his original message without input from Carson in the first place? I am very naive about these matters of international relations. Can someone please educate me? Onyango Oloo NairobiOloo, There can be several competing schools of thought within the state department. As a new secretary of state settles in, and there is a temporary power vacuum, and jostling takes place underneath for supremacy, power-moves can be made without superior clearance. Pragmatic Dr. Susan Rice --the so-called God Mother of African dictators has been determining Clinton/Obama's Africa vision. To the chagrin of moralists who for instance, consider Kagame a cheap war-criminal. May be Carson comes from this later wing, and the earlier Obama statement was a whisper from the Rice Wing! And they are Putting John Kerry's ketch-up squirting arrz --excuse the crudity-- through the boiler!
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 8, 2013 22:20:40 GMT 3
Tough silent love? This most powerful Luo in the world should just have sent Carson to Kibaki for a meeting with all candidates some time back and read them the riot act. Perhaps the Riot Act has already been read in private, in what diplomats refer to as "frank and fruitful discussions". But the African head is a tough one: didn't you just hear of certain people demanding that Carson apologize---for carrying Obama's message! And do you think the candidates really care about anything that might happen to the Kenyan masses? Don't you remember some guys (in 2008) stating that they would even prefer the Rwandan way over losing power. As for the lemmings, in their heated rush to the edge of the cliff, the subtle aspects of Obama's message was lost on them. Did you see how the message was interpreted in some quarters as meaning that regardless of who gets elected it will be kazi iendelee? A more direct message clarification was necessary, and that's what Carson delivered.
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 8, 2013 22:24:50 GMT 3
Oloo, There can be several competing schools of thought within the state department. As a new secretary of state settles in, and there is a temporary power vacuum, and jostling takes place underneath for supremacy, power-moves can be made without superior clearance. Pragmatic Dr. Susan Rice --the so-called God Mother of African dictators has been determining Clinton/Obama's Africa vision. To the chagrin of moralists who for instance, consider Kagame a cheap war-criminal. May be Carson comes from this later wing, and the earlier Obama statement was a whisper from the Rice Wing! And they are Putting John Kerry's ketch-up squirting arrz --excuse the crudity-- through the boiler! On this one, I'm chuckling with Comrade Oloo. Sometimes I think that if a Martian landed in Kenya, he might think he was on a stage where a bizarre comedy was being performed.
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Post by deyiengs on Feb 9, 2013 2:39:19 GMT 3
Very novice politicians these Jubilee folks. They rushed and praised the US and now they are condemning them. you cant have both ways folks. Uhuruto said that they've never been told by any western country that there would be sanctions imposed to them if they win the elections. They even said that contrary to what others are trying to say, they have always been promised(by the west) that they will work with anyone who wins. But now, "Wenye inchi" (the ones who aid the country) are calling it as they see it. there must have been something that happened that prompted them to release those statements. It seems so co-ordinated and well scripted: First,their "God Father" Obama, releases a very cool and friendly statement. Uhuruto jumps on it with glee. Then the "God Father" sends his "son" Carson to reaffirm the statement. And then the other "family members" EU, led by the UK, releases statements that when translated form the diplomatic language would simply mean: "Please don't elect Uhuruto if you want us to continue providing aid and market for tea, coffee and tourism"
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Post by Man Of Letters on Feb 9, 2013 3:00:12 GMT 3
Were Kenyans not to wake up to this reality and vote the right people into office, they cannot complain of the consequences to follow. Look for an airlifting of people from regions and areas that voted right and an individualized punishment of those from areas that voted wrong including denial of visas to travel to any of these countries were it to come to that. Greetings Omwenga. First of all, the right people are those the Kenyan people vote into office unless you wish to hint at how I should cast my vote. Next, this visa ban idea of yours to some communities if we voted in the wrong people has already attracted a lot of heat. I don't mean to add to the fire but in your next posting you claim visa officers are privy to the way some one voted and hence can deny people visas to paradise cause they voted wrong. How is this possible? Has big brother hacked into the voting system? You have already backed away from from explaining this very irresponsible and ill thought posting, which to me borders on incitement, I would suggest you recant, but from the vein of your previous postings your rabid allegiance to 'bwana safi' is well known, so we should not expect a retraction. To soften the blow let me say, I am a registered voter with no affiliation nor membership to any party, I will be a conscientious abstainer on election day. Like you said, lets debate in a sober non insulting way. All the best to your candidate for president. Cheers.
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Post by deyiengs on Feb 9, 2013 9:14:24 GMT 3
Onyango Oloo, OO, take it easy...
Ok ok, we've heard sir...
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Post by kamalet on Feb 9, 2013 9:46:31 GMT 3
For any western diplomat sent to a third world country, appearing to have influence over the local president is seen very well back at home.
Part of Kibaki's problem with the diplomats was that he had very little time for them unless they were bringing something on the table. We have all read the amazement of some EU ambassadors publicly complaining that Kibaki does not see them , but appears happy to quickly see an oriental diplomat however lowly!
An interesting story I was told was some efforts an EU ambassador (name withheld)made through contacts that included a friend of mine to see Kibaki. The trail was some worker at the Embassy talking to his landlord who knew Karume and who it was thought would get Kibaki to see the Ambassador. So the arrangements were made and the Ambassador finally got to meet Karume. As Karume needed to tell Kibaki what the mzungu wanted, the diplomat said hat he is required to report on his contacts with the top leadership and Kibaki was missing on the list. In effect, it was more off a courtesy call than anything else. Karume the good man went and saw his friend and reported that the ambassador really wanted to see him. Kibaki nodded and said he will decide if to see the man considering that the meeting involved no development plan for Kenya. Not hearing anything and being pressured by the ambassador Karume even tried getting Kimemia to help out. The long and short of it is that the meeting never took place.
So I am looking at the contacts on a "need basis" threats and wondering if these guys have not learnt from Kibaki or are they rooting for one that sees them at their beck and call?
The other positive I see in this grandstanding on who they shall see, there is no longer talk of sanctions or threats thereof. We have come from far.
Finally when we witness the swearing in of Uhuru and Ruto, I am just wondering how the Turners of this world will behave as they will want to see the president not on a "need basis" but actually on a "must basis". The same holds true for Johnnie Carson if he is not sacked by Kerry by the time the swearing takes place. Give us a free, fair and peaceful election and when Uhuru is being sworn in, Kerry or Biden will be ink Nairobi for the occasion. Understand why it is Kasarani for the swearing in and not Nyayo or Uhuru Park?
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 9, 2013 10:24:00 GMT 3
Otishotish,
I think Obama was way out of his call when he made that public statement. He should have left it to the state department. To avoid being enmeshed in Kenyan mud. This reasoning of yours was correct: the Americans too have their way of protecting their dear leader! Otherwise the POTUS gets mixed up in the internal affairs of God knows which heaven-forsaken and hell-bound country on this bounteous earth!
Remember Vladimir Putin discourteous spit at Hilary Clinton, telling her to shut up about Human Rights in Russia, if she herself had nothing to say about Guantanamo and the various torture centers ran by the CIA across some 27 countries? It it is to save POTUS such brutal retorts from crude ;D leaders that POTUS is usually well-advised to shut his mouth, or only utter nonsense that offends none.
Now look at this mess: Oloo TNT ;D --that this the late RD911's baptismal, is doing his epithet justice here, with tremendous gravitas. 1. Inviting Carson to a retort, which could easily escalate into a mud-fight. 2. Inviting Carson's seniour into a further clarification of who is boss! and what policy they are running --confused snobs! 3. Trapping the Americans into the silence of solve by ignoring! doing an ostrich we say in Afrika --But there is that tear-gas in the room, and they must cough discretely though: Did Carson have himself used by HE Elkana O, a relative of one of the Kenyan candidates, to twist USA policy? or is that the wildness of TNT exploding?
Behind the scenes we have to talk! Gentlemen. No press allowed. I give this one to TNT Oloo. If Carson met Elkana irregularly, he will be slapped. Cheeky boy!
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Post by deyiengs on Feb 9, 2013 11:37:51 GMT 3
Finally when we witness the swearing in of Uhuru and Ruto .... .... when we witness the swearing of those two suspects, start thinking of you your businesses. The one you've been talking about here in Jukwaa. if you depend on a VISA debit card, get ready to trash it in a few months if not weeks... coz the moment those two jamass get power, they'll never go to Hague and, boy, the shot-callers will start calling the shots... pole but that's the truth... === I think most, if not all, Jubilee supporters like Kamau know how real sanctions can bite. Some of them even do business in Zimbabwe so they have the first-hand experience. The problem is that, they've realized late in the game that they're in trouble. But if they Look on the other side of the aisle for other options, they see horse AGWAMBO! with other baby donkeys and they're like, "eish! liwe liwalo". There is no way they can support Raila. This man has caused them sleepless nights since God knows when (Even though he supported Kibaki in 2002). That leads me to conclude that maybe Raila is the problem here. (wait don't skin me alive). Sometimes we have to think outside the box to place things into contexts. Let's assume Raila was not on the ballot and Uhuruto existed, do you think Uhuruto would get support the way they're now getting? I highly doubt. Kenya is bigger than any individual. We just happen to live in a country where folks are so passionate and where a lot of people turn to their tribes. Should Raila then drop out? No! let him fight till the end. Those who want power will take this country to the dogs. Remember we're not even talking about Kenyatta being a Kikuyu and we've already had 2 Kikuyu presidents, in fact the incumbent president is a Kikuyu. The current constitution recognizes the need for inclusion. It would be prudent for any Kikuyu to see the sense and not vie for the presidency... but alas! we have 4 Kikuyus on the ballot paper who want to be president. That's half of the total 8 who are vying for the same post! With that kind of passion, it's going to be hard for either team to concede defeat. Luos have waited for a long time to see an Odinga arise to leadership... Since 1963, they've seen no one but an Odinga. Now Raila is having his last stab at the presidency... literally. To see the dream come to naught it will be more that heartbreak for them. Uhuruto see winning this election as freedom from the ICC. They have all the money that they need in this world, but their lives are being disrupted by the damn ICC. Who in his right mind see these fellas head to the Hague after being declared winners? So what really can happen? Hypothetical scenario #1: Uhuruto wins: Kisumu guys in Kondele and Manyatta will burn tires in the streets and that’s it. After a few days things will return back to normal and president elect will be sworn in. The PEV that occurred in 2008 cannot re-occur because the main protagonist who fought are now in the same boat, unless Kenyatta declares that Ruto will no longer be his running mate. Then slowly but surely life gets hard. I believe that after 2 years reality will sink that Kenya is headed to the dogs and I’m sure Kenya will not go the Zimbabwe way! I’m sure necessary steps will be taken by “peaceful” loving Kenyans to avert such a scenario. Remember no one can rule with a fist in Kenya. Hypothetical scenario #2: Railonzo wins: I se chaos (i might be wrong), Jubilee will not let this slip just like that. I have a feeling that since they feel that this election is a referendum on ICC, losing will be like losing their cases too And with all this money that they have? They would therefore try and make the country ungovernable. I don’t imagine them surrendering to Raila. Do you think Uhuruto will call a press conference and accept defeat? They’ll look for an excuse not to and they even have one now: ‘The west influenced the election’. Interesting times folks… very interesting times ahead... at least based on my calculations. Either way guys, whatever happens... Kenya will be fine in the end... I really love that COUNTRY.
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Post by nowayhaha on Feb 9, 2013 11:44:59 GMT 3
Kenya to seek assurance on relations with US after polls elections.nation.co.ke/news/Kenya-to-seek-assurance-on-relations-with-US-after-polls/-/1631868/1688548/-/it2h95/-/index.htmlKenya will seek clarification from the US government on relations between the two countries after the March 4 General Elections. Head of Public Service and Secretary to the Cabinet Francis Kimemia said the Kenyan government welcomes President Obama’s declaration that he will work with whoever Kenyans elect as President. He however said the government is compelled to seek clarification on the true US stand after Assistant Secretary of State for African Affairs Ambassador Johnnie Carson’s Thursday warning that the choice Kenyans make in the elections will have consequences. Ambassador Carson’s remarks are being interpreted by the Kenyan government as a warning that the US may review its relations should Deputy Prime Minister Uhuru Kenyatta and his running mate William Ruto get elected to the top office. Mr Kenyatta and Mr Ruto are facing crimes against humanity charges at the International Criminal Court (ICC). Mr Kimemia said Ambassador Carson’s remarks contradict President Obama’s earlier assurance to Kenyans that the US government was ready to work with any candidate who Kenyans elect. In a video message to Kenyans on Tuesday, President Obama had assured Kenyans that the US will not endorse any presidential candidate in the general elections. Ambassador Carson however, in a teleconference on Thursday, warned Kenyans that the choice they will make on March 4 will have consequences. Mr Carson advised Kenyans to be thoughtful about the impact of their choices on Kenya and the world. He did not however mention the name of Mr Kenyatta and Mr Ruto
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Post by Mobimba on Feb 9, 2013 17:45:17 GMT 3
Kibaki’s refusal of a courtesy call from a western diplomat, one particularly without a development agenda for Kenya, tea time really, must be commended. He did the very right thing. His actions, however, cannot be interpreted or purported to mean a wholesale disdain or a burning desire to disassociate with the West as you imply. Kibaki, UhuRuto, you and I know that the West continues to be Kenya’s largest and most influential ‘development’ partner. We may sell most of our exports within Africa but the West can scuttle that yesterday. We pay for Chinese roads and hospitals through loans taken from banks owned by the West. Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto, accused of rape and murder of their own people; the most heinous crimes against humanity known to man, should just be bold enough to accept and tell Kenyans that their presidency will isolate Kenya from the West.
I personally have no problem with isolation if that’s what the majority of Kenyans want. In fact, the West can go to hell for all I care.
What I want, however, is HONESTY. How will an isolated Kenya under UhuRuto survive? The US, UK, France, Switzerland, Germany and even the UN have all warned of consequences and they are not joking. Jubilee can no longer lie to Kenyans that there will be no consequences if they are elected because we’ve heard the true state of impending affairs from the horse’s mouth.
Folks can scream sovereignty, interference, independence, death to the west etc. all day and night but the fact remains; there will be CONSEQUENCES from the West.
Even China desperately needs the West to survive. It’s a global village.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 9, 2013 18:37:24 GMT 3
What I want, however, is HONESTY. How will an isolated Kenya under UhuRuto survive? The US, UK, France, Switzerland, Germany and even the UN have all warned of consequences and they are not joking. Jubilee can no longer lie to Kenyans that there will be no consequences if they are elected because we’ve heard the true state of impending affairs from the horse’s mouth. I hear you Lincoln. Lucid you are. Did your parents by any chance name you after the other very famous and lucid debater, Abraham? --But that is a by the way for another day. Important to me, is the thrust of your argument, that Jubilee can no longer lie to Kenya on the likeliness and direness of the consequences of the UHuro administration, if they win. And this is a great bone I have to pick with Onyango TNT Oloo, whose rapid response tactical retaliations, are very robust on other areas which I consider trivia. I have demanded elsewhere, that if he really seriously considers a Jubilee win, then he must present to to the nation his, in the worst case scenario, total sanctions beating program. [In the best case scenario, nothing but hot words happen and things go on pretty much as of old! No worries then]. But, in case: How do we absorb a collapse of the shilling following Western Monetary pariarisation? Remember how CBK chairman professor Ndung'u looked bewildered and clueless last time around the shilling spiraled down? 'SHIRRINGI SHIRRINGI! PRIZ DON'T DIE ON ME YAWA! AHOMBI KABISA!' a Front-page cartoon grinned at a bemused nation. In fact I am so maddened by Jubilee's ostrich solution, that, in the coming presidential debates, I will publicly call upon Karua on Jukwaa, to insist on debating the NUMBER THREE in Jubilee. Because numbers 1&2, Uhuruto, are living in fantasy-land. If Jubilee wins, seriously they can not run Kenya, a nation of 40M, concurrently with their time consuming trial at the Hague. As suspects on trial, they will be under the regime, control and authority of the president of the court, and that is, even from a national security aspect, incompatible with the auspice of commander in chief and his deputy. I therefore think, we should be looking at the number 3 woman or man in Jubilee. He/She will be the chief, if Jubilee wins. Now, where is that Oloo guy? NB: On Kibaki too busy talking dirty on the telephone with Wambui of Othaya, to receive powerful western diplomats, well no big deal really I agree! I checked, in as much is available the diaries of some small prosperous nations of the West. Their Prime Ministers --they do not go the presidents way, are not in the habit of meeting ambassadors, even the ones from the super-powers. On accreditation and welcome day, some hollow institute called the palace, Queen or King, is the place that mundane task is delegated to. Anybody from Finland: any day the Nigerian ambassador --that is the most powerful African country-- has ever heard a one on one with the Finnish premier in far and recent history?
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 9, 2013 19:31:03 GMT 3
A little story: This morning, I was, as I usually do on this day, quietly sleeping late when my two small boys started a rowdy fistfight. I got up to deliver some discipline. Each one wailed that I was being unfair, because the other one had started it. That I should leave them alone to get on with their games. That he would henceforth stop talking to me deal only with their mother. Etc. Etc. Etc. My response, as is usual in such cases: "You can wail all you want about unfairness and this and that, but a point must be made. And try to act sensibly for the rest of the day, or there will be more of the same." They ran to their mother, who told them that she would not get involved.
Discipline was promptly delivered, accompanied with more wailing and the sort of "tough" talk that only a child is capable of, but after that peace reigned. And they are already back to talking to me, because they need their pocket-money for the weekend's sweets and movies. They have apologized for their bad behaviour and are sucking up rather nicely.
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Post by gemagema on Feb 9, 2013 23:57:14 GMT 3
Some facts here.... The Chinese care less about politics, but only business. And for sure, the Chinese take Chai, they dont drink Coffee....so who is gonna buy Kenya's coffee...better stated...who is gonna buy the coffee that mainly grows in the Kenyans highlands (in Central Kenya)?
Kenya earns mostly from Tourism...it is one of our Key source of foreign income...Where do most tourists come from? Dont tell me Beijing or Hong Kong...The Chinese only come to work
Where do we have the largest number of Kenyan diaspora...in the Western countries or the Eastern bloc? Where do Kenyans want to send their kids for further education??? Where can Kenyans earn some decent money from cleaning toilets or serving at McDonalds?...China? Europe? or America?...Please dont tell me China....China has enough of their ownon their jobs waiting list to require African black foreigners
Aha! And the flowers from NAivasha? Where will they be exported to? ...China? Hehehe!!!
So...as you vote in Jubilee, just keep in mind that trade will be at its lowest while the price of Maize flour (Ugali) will be at its highest
VOTE WISELY!!!
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Post by Man Of Letters on Feb 10, 2013 2:11:26 GMT 3
Some facts here.... Where do we have the largest number of Kenyan diaspora...in the Western countries or the Eastern bloc? Where can Kenyans earn some decent money from cleaning toilets or serving at McDonalds?...China? Europe? or America?... Point of correction: Kenyans in America don't clean toilets or work at McDonalds. In the west coast they mainly work as security guards ( while attending college) and as front office clerks at hotels, for the ladies. On the east coast, and parts of the south such as Georgia, the main jobs are in nursing homes and in group homes. Lets stop all this dooms day scenarios. We will be fine who ever is elected. Wish for peace.
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Post by b6k on Feb 11, 2013 18:11:18 GMT 3
Head of EU Delegation denies threats of sanctions on KE after Prof Ongeri summons EU envoys
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