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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 0:51:40 GMT 3
what's inexplicable about mutunga's statement? It's all in the timing. Take the "poison pen letter" for example. It's use by date had clearly passed as Uhuruto were already given a through pass to vie for elections by the judiciary. Why air it now & not then when it was fresh off the press? Adding that to Kimemia's authority to leave the country saga seems to be an attempt to draw a link at two unrelated incidents that will have political ramifications now that he has gone public. Why is the CJ playing politics? I would imagine any CJ anywhere in the world is someone who will have enemies....some even very powerful ones. Crying wolf or doing a Chicken Little when it's really part of one's job description to stand tough in very trying circumstances is....disturbing.... b6kit's not part of the CJ's job description to put up with death threats. where is it that you live where people threaten top members of the judiciary, and where this isn't even reported? we all know that in kenya assasinations have been ordered and carried out especially against those who don't toe the line of the power elites. surely, you do not want me to go down the long list of killings. by exposing the threat, he did just as he should have done. then those who i believe are behind the threat started tripping all over themselves, laying blame on those who have nothing to do with the matter. the matter of leaving the country is related in as far as a letter is issued followed by the stupid little drama at the airport. the fall guy then becomes the airport worker who would have been fired by those ordering him around if he had declined to do as they demanded. kimemia, gets off scot free. if it was in a normal country where things actually work, he would have resigned and fired if he didn't. you most disgraceful people.
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Post by Man Of Letters on Feb 23, 2013 0:56:54 GMT 3
But as the Soviets used to say; trust but verify. As with all other offices, the CJ will be subject to the same intense glare that we shine on every other important public office. "Trust but verify"was actually what Ronald Reagan used to say when dealing with the Soviets..... ;D Actually rough rider and b6k are both correct but the phrase or proverb is originally Russian made popular by Vladimir Lenin. Reagan recycled it.
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Post by joblesscorner on Feb 23, 2013 1:00:42 GMT 3
My understand of this saying is birds of the same feather flock together... Even by their own dubious standards, these guys have hit a new low. One wonders about the mindset there.
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 23, 2013 1:16:56 GMT 3
My understand of this saying is birds of the same feather flock together... Even by their own dubious standards, these guys have hit a new low. One wonders about the mindset there. I declare you and your two friends to be the cleverest Kenyans anywhere. Congratulations!
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Post by Man Of Letters on Feb 23, 2013 1:24:22 GMT 3
kamalet whatever you said in your mother tongue, nobody cares because contrary to what you think, not every Kenyans understands your language. I find this reprimand of kamalet a bit one sided. While I don't approve of the use of vernacular of any sort on an English speaking board, there is a prominent member who laces his postings with doses of vernacular yet you have said nothing. The poster is a person whose postings I follow earnestly and we have had pleasant exchanges. Both posters, I believe bring value to this board but to castigate one you have to castigate the other. I don't mean to give direction as to a course of action as I am a minor player but you, as a moderator, should be impartial in passing judgements on utterances made by members of this board. Thanks
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Post by joblesscorner on Feb 23, 2013 1:25:48 GMT 3
Yawa! I said my understanding of the above saying, where is correlation of my friends and I coming from. On the same token though, I saw the letter on Mutua twitter, two days before, does that means he got the advise from him? My understand of this saying is birds of the same feather flock together... I declare you and your two friends to be the cleverest Kenyans anywhere. Congratulations!
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 1:36:10 GMT 3
My understand of this saying is birds of the same feather flock together... I declare you and your two friends to be the cleverest Kenyans anywhere. Congratulations! otis that is profound
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Post by Deleted on Feb 23, 2013 1:49:09 GMT 3
kamalet whatever you said in your mother tongue, nobody cares because contrary to what you think, not every Kenyans understands your language. I find this reprimand of kamalet a bit one sided. While I don't approve of the use of vernacular of any sort on an English speaking board, there is a prominent member who laces his postings with doses of vernacular yet you have said nothing. The poster is a person whose postings I follow earnestly and we have had pleasant exchanges. Both posters, I believe bring value to this board but to castigate one you have to castigate the other. I don't mean to give direction as to a course of action as I am a minor player but you, as a moderator, should be impartial in passing judgements on utterances made by members of this board. Thanks man of lettersthat jakaswanga uses his mother tongue lots is true. what i noted though, was that when he speaks to kenyans in general he translates what it is he is saying. when he is speaking specifically to Luos he sometimes doesn't. kamalet and his conjoined twin mwalimumku are trying hard to disparage mutunga and mutua by labeling them homosexual. that is what they were doing here. using sexual orientation as a way of silencing people and/or as insults is not kosha. being homosexsual is not a sin. being a killer is. so, even if mutunga or mutua are gay that is never going to be a reason for me to dismiss a human being. the other day at the vice presidential debate, ruto was calling homosexual kenyans dogs. really ruto? think long and hard before you utter such. besides, i consider such utterances incitement against a demographic group. then i have this pet peeve about dominant groups who think that the world begins and ends with them, and their so called culture.
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Post by ebarasi on Feb 23, 2013 2:52:27 GMT 3
Podp Looks like you missed the Mutunga email giving wise counsel to ODM prior to his appointment as CJ! ....of course this has nothing to do with Willy the CJ as he must have dropped the advisor tag..... but then when he keeps the company of a certain fellow whom they share a mother tongue, one must worry about his views about Kenya for as we say in my mother tongue.."mucera na Mũkũndũ akũndũkaga taguo". Rumor has it that they are actually roommates and you now their views converge on some funny issues. Mwalimu, I thought your professional call was to educate by passing on controlled and verified information. Why then would you strive to miseducate by spreading such serious rumour and innuendo? This was a really cheap shot.
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 23, 2013 3:02:39 GMT 3
that jakaswanga uses his mother language lots is true. what i noted though, was that when he speakes to kenyans in general he translates what it is he is saying. when he is speaking specifically to Luos he sometimes doesn't. kamalet and his conjoined twin mwalimumku are trying hard to disparage mutunga and mutua by labeling them homosexual. that is what they were doing here. using sexual orientation as a way of silencing people and/or as insults is not kosha. being homosexsual is not a sin. being a killer is. so, even if mutunga or mutua are gay that is never going to be a reason for me to dismiss a human being. the other day at the vice presidential debate, ruto was calling homosexual kenyans dogs. really ruto, think long and hard before you utter such. besides, i consider such utterances incitement against a demographic group. then i have this pet peeve about dominant groups who think that the world begins and ends with them, and their so called culture. There are certain types of hatred that are impossible to even start to understand. I wonder if those expressing them, however sly they might think they are, ever stop to first THINK.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 23, 2013 8:32:36 GMT 3
I find this reprimand of kamalet a bit one sided. While I don't approve of the use of vernacular of any sort on an English speaking board, there is a prominent member who laces his postings with doses of vernacular yet you have said nothing. The poster is a person whose postings I follow earnestly and we have had pleasant exchanges. Both posters, I believe bring value to this board but to castigate one you have to castigate the other. I don't mean to give direction as to a course of action as I am a minor player but you, as a moderator, should be impartial in passing judgements on utterances made by members of this board. Thanks manoflettersthat jakaswanga uses his mother language lots is true. what i noted though, was that when he speakes to kenyans in general he translates what it is he is saying. when he is speaking specifically to Luos he sometimes doesn't. kamalet and his conjoined twin mwalimumku are trying hard to disparage mutunga and mutua by labeling them homosexual. that is what they were doing here. using sexual orientation as a way of silencing people and/or as insults is not kosha. being homosexsual is not a sin. being a killer is. so, even if mutunga or mutua are gay that is never going to be a reason for me to dismiss a human being. the other day at the vice presidential debate, ruto was calling homosexual kenyans dogs. really ruto, think long and hard before you utter such. besides, i consider such utterances incitement against a demographic group. then i have this pet peeve about dominant groups who think that the world begins and ends with them, and their so called culture. Kathure It is a dangerous thing to try being a mind reader when you are not schooled in the art. If you as a moderator felt offended by my gikuyu idiom, the easiest thing to have done is PM me and ask that I clarify and I would have easily obliged. Instead, you do a Mutunga on me by shouting and I can see you are concluding that I was referring to the CJ as a queer. For the sake of clarity I am aware that he denied being one during his interviews both at the JSC and the Psrliamentary committed. I have no reason to doubt it. I have no idea what sexual preference Makau Mutua has and frankly I do not care if he finds caterpillars or chicken his fancy. So it is not clear why you introduced the homosexual angle in the debate unless of course you are suggesting you know the two to be queer and are offended I may have alluded to the same fact you suggest. Joblesscorner has nearly got the idiom right and we can work with that. Simply what I was alluding to was the well known fact of Mutua being an activist with the terrible lying tongue and who has been against the candidacy of Uhuru in preference for Raila. We all know the articles he has written on the ICC two, his lies on sanctions, the suit to stop nomination of Uhuru headed by his own a human rights commission. We know that the two are very close professional colleagues sharing a mother tongue and who help one another with accommodation in either country. Frankly nothing wrong with that and Mutunga must be allowed to have friends. But the line gets drawn when people are aware of the Mungiki letter via Mutua's twitter handle a day before Mutunga's famous OSS conference. I trust this clarifies it for you Kathure.
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Post by b6k on Feb 23, 2013 8:52:22 GMT 3
Why is the moderator hating on conjoined twins? It is not their wish that they are born that way. Let's be sensitive to those with disabilities amongst us even as we defend those with "alternative lifestyles". As a synonym, doppelganger could've gotten the same point across....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2013 2:41:44 GMT 3
manoflettersthat jakaswanga uses his mother language lots is true. what i noted though, was that when he speakes to kenyans in general he translates what it is he is saying. when he is speaking specifically to Luos he sometimes doesn't. kamalet and his conjoined twin mwalimumku are trying hard to disparage mutunga and mutua by labeling them homosexual. that is what they were doing here. using sexual orientation as a way of silencing people and/or as insults is not kosha. being homosexsual is not a sin. being a killer is. so, even if mutunga or mutua are gay that is never going to be a reason for me to dismiss a human being. the other day at the vice presidential debate, ruto was calling homosexual kenyans dogs. really ruto, think long and hard before you utter such. besides, i consider such utterances incitement against a demographic group. then i have this pet peeve about dominant groups who think that the world begins and ends with them, and their so called culture. Kathure It is a dangerous thing to try being a mind reader when you are not schooled in the art. If you as a moderator felt offended by my gikuyu idiom, the easiest thing to have done is PM me and ask that I clarify and I would have easily obliged. Instead, you do a Mutunga on me by shouting and I can see you are concluding that I was referring to the CJ as a queer. For the sake of clarity I am aware that he denied being one during his interviews both at the JSC and the Psrliamentary committed. I have no reason to doubt it. I have no idea what sexual preference Makau Mutua has and frankly I do not care if he finds caterpillars or chicken his fancy. So it is not clear why you introduced the homosexual angle in the debate unless of course you are suggesting you know the two to be queer and are offended I may have alluded to the same fact you suggest. Joblesscorner has nearly got the idiom right and we can work with that. Simply what I was alluding to was the well known fact of Mutua being an activist with the terrible lying tongue and who has been against the candidacy of Uhuru in preference for Raila. We all know the articles he has written on the ICC two, his lies on sanctions, the suit to stop nomination of Uhuru headed by his own a human rights commission. We know that the two are very close professional colleagues sharing a mother tongue and who help one another with accommodation in either country. Frankly nothing wrong with that and Mutunga must be allowed to have friends. But the line gets drawn when people are aware of the Mungiki letter via Mutua's twitter handle a day before Mutunga's famous OSS conference. I trust this clarifies it for you Kathure. kamaletyou are showing yourself up to be a liar. must you lie even in broad day light? here you and you ( that's kamalet and mwalimumuku) spoke in codes that only a 2yr old can not understand. those over 2yrs get it! then you turn around and deny, deny, deny. trying to be clever by half, spinning words will not take away what you and you wrote here. and again you flaunt your hatred for human beings talking trash like "caterpillars or chicken" all shrowded in the "i do not care if" the "i do not care if" is double speak, fake words those. if you didn't care, you wouldn't have raised issue of sexual orientation never mind the lies now. like nyachae you really need to get your head out of people's genitals dude. unless they invite you there stay away! Everybody, even the POTUS has people he talks to and who to a certain extent are bound to influence his decisions. at the end of the day though, mutuanga' the CJ has to do his job within the limits of the law guided by his own head. that is what kenyans like me care about. as he should be, mutua is opposed to a uhuru presidency. need i outline the reasons why uhuru shouldn't even be in the contest? i'm not going to waste my time kamalet, explaining to you that your support for that man is plain wrong. unlike many kenyans, you and your ilk are not ignorant of the multiple reasons why kenya does not need that baggage uhuruto! you are making choices fully cognizant of what it is you do. mutua is also making choices. patriotic ones that is. unlike you who would gleefully oversee the destruction of the country just so that your man ascends to power regardless of (for one), his intimate relationship with the ICC. by way of compliment, i'll give you that you sure play that role of overseer well. keep working harder in that "plantation"for your cause. at least as hard as kenyans opposed to you and all those like you keep working harder at our cause . mister.
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Post by OtishOtish on Feb 24, 2013 4:49:58 GMT 3
I told you they are "clever".
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Post by kamalet on Feb 24, 2013 20:34:49 GMT 3
Kathure It is a dangerous thing to try being a mind reader when you are not schooled in the art. If you as a moderator felt offended by my gikuyu idiom, the easiest thing to have done is PM me and ask that I clarify and I would have easily obliged. Instead, you do a Mutunga on me by shouting and I can see you are concluding that I was referring to the CJ as a queer. For the sake of clarity I am aware that he denied being one during his interviews both at the JSC and the Psrliamentary committed. I have no reason to doubt it. I have no idea what sexual preference Makau Mutua has and frankly I do not care if he finds caterpillars or chicken his fancy. So it is not clear why you introduced the homosexual angle in the debate unless of course you are suggesting you know the two to be queer and are offended I may have alluded to the same fact you suggest. Joblesscorner has nearly got the idiom right and we can work with that. Simply what I was alluding to was the well known fact of Mutua being an activist with the terrible lying tongue and who has been against the candidacy of Uhuru in preference for Raila. We all know the articles he has written on the ICC two, his lies on sanctions, the suit to stop nomination of Uhuru headed by his own a human rights commission. We know that the two are very close professional colleagues sharing a mother tongue and who help one another with accommodation in either country. Frankly nothing wrong with that and Mutunga must be allowed to have friends. But the line gets drawn when people are aware of the Mungiki letter via Mutua's twitter handle a day before Mutunga's famous OSS conference. I trust this clarifies it for you Kathure. kamaletyou are showing yourself up to be a liar. must you lie even in broad day light? here you and you ( that's kamalet and mwalimumuku) spoke in codes that only a 2yr old can not understand. those over 2yrs get it! then you turn around and deny, deny, deny. trying to be clever by half, spinning words will not take away what you and you wrote here. and again you flaunt your hatred for human beings talking trash like "caterpillars or chicken" all shrowded in the "i do not care if" the "i do not care if" is double speak, fake words those. if you didn't care, you wouldn't have raised issue of sexual orientation never mind the lies now. like nyachae you really need to get your head out of people's genitals dude. unless they invite you there stay away! Everybody, even the POTUS has people he talks to and who to a certain extent are bound to influence his decisions. at the end of the day though, mutuanga' the CJ has to do his job within the limits of the law guided by his own head. that is what kenyans like me care about. as he should be, mutua is opposed to a uhuru presidency. need i outline the reasons why uhuru shouldn't even be in the contest? i'm not going to waste my time kamalet, explaining to you that your support for that man is plain wrong. unlike many kenyans, you and your ilk are not ignorant of the multiple reasons why kenya does not need that baggage uhuruto! you are making choices fully cognizant of what it is you do. mutua is also making choices. patriotic ones that is. unlike you who would gleefully oversee the destruction of the country just so that your man ascends to power regardless of (for one), his intimate relationship with the ICC. by way of compliment, i'll give you that you sure play that role of overseer well. keep working harder in that "plantation"for your cause. at least as hard as kenyans opposed to you and all those like you keep working harder at our cause . mister. Kathure Let us see how your two year decoding works.....if I said I cannot understand what you are selling for such a response......I imagine that if you did drugs you will say am accusing you of being a drug dealer or if you were a woman of lose morals you would say I called you a prostitute so if you seemed to know the orientation of the two gentlemen it was inevitable for you to imagine I was talking about their orientation. But when I tell you that is not what I was talking about you are still stuck on the subject. I never talked about sexual orientation and as such I do not have to justify myself to you. All you should know is that stupidity is not a cooperative effort and the millions of Kenyans trooping behind Uhuru surely do not think what the activists like you worry about...they see a lot more in these leaders than the narrow view your small minority see! Just move on!
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Post by mugabe on Feb 24, 2013 22:34:06 GMT 3
Kamalet using verbal gymnastics! That is the reason he is still in jukwaa after others like reporter 911 were yanked.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 25, 2013 8:33:28 GMT 3
Kamalet using verbal gymnastics! That is the reason he is still in jukwaa after others like reporter 911 were yanked. Robert How about you ignore Kamale and debate the issue for a change! It is not about him.....!
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 26, 2013 0:05:48 GMT 3
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Post by podp on Feb 26, 2013 18:34:45 GMT 3
Kathure Let us see how your two year decoding works.....if I said I cannot understand what you are selling for such a response......I imagine that if you did drugs you will say am accusing you of being a drug dealer or if you were a woman of lose morals you would say I called you a prostitute so if you seemed to know the orientation of the two gentlemen it was inevitable for you to imagine I was talking about their orientation. But when I tell you that is not what I was talking about you are still stuck on the subject. I never talked about sexual orientation and as such I do not have to justify myself to you. All you should know is that stupidity is not a cooperative effort and the millions of Kenyans trooping behind Uhuru surely do not think what the activists like you worry about...they see a lot more in these leaders than the narrow view your small minority see! Just move on! 1st red highlight that is loaded let me not go there 2nd red highlight being firmly grounded in Kenya and being able to meet different people of diverse opinions I have to agree with you here. in Kidneys for the King pages 39 & 40 their is WM's and also on page 46 & 47 (emails before he became CJ). Big M's reason for posting them is his belief that Kenyan's deserve to know what views, opinions and beliefs - political or not - that their CJ holds, especially about the reform agenda and process. However on page 102 Big M says 'Unlike Willy, I have come to the realization that Odinga isn't an agent of change. As my wife likes to say, "Raila lost network" of change long time ago. Kenyans cannot rely on him any more to help bring positive changes. Nor can we use the weak and rotten institutions or political orphans of the old order to implement the Constitution.' so back to CJ and if Kenyans can count on him? what I do gather from strong supporters of Uhuruto is that CJ may pull a surprise and lean on the wrong side since Makau his friend and RAO's running mate aka loser/ chameleon etc will be the big winner
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Post by nereah on Mar 2, 2013 12:59:05 GMT 3
githu muigai is quoted by my informant as saying that a senior judge would be identified to swear in the next president should willy mutunga not be available.
i thought the katiba is clear on who swears the president and public officers? which begs the question can mutunga be relied on by those in power to act as he did with the deputy inspectors of police?
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 2, 2013 14:18:40 GMT 3
githu muigai is quoted by my informant as saying that a senior judge would be identified to swear in the next president should willy mutunga not be available.
i thought the katiba is clear on who swears the president and public officers? which begs the question can mutunga be relied on by those in power to act as he did with the deputy inspectors of police.? Nereah, let me humour you a bit with another 'precedent' from far and wide, a bit different, but the technical execution is worth studying. One day long ago, the parliament of Belgium passed the abortion legislation, which meant the legalisation thereof. All that remained, as a statutory requirement, to make it operative, was the signature of the King. But the old and nearly senile King, who was publicly rumoured to be in the claws of Op us Dei Rasputins, in addition to his court being controlled by other very conservative Catholic notables who run the paedophilia network the Catholic priesthood has become, refused to do such thing in the knowledge God was on his side! Over my dead body, the monarch told the PM to his face, in a famous breach of protocol. The Belgian PM then was too timid to answer: so be it then, your majesty! over your royal corpse it shall be! So what to do now? the question faced the bemused political class as the republican wing sought to use this episode to push their agenda, either for abdication to modernise the monarchy, or the logical modern conclusion, a republic un-encumbered with such cobwebs of history as the catholic church and Opus Dei! You all know him as the President of the European Council. Herman van Rompuy. Well, it was this wily fox who saved the political class from a total loss of faith from the public, which could have dissolved the already weak social fabric of Belgium. Herman proposed that the King should fall sick on a sunday, too sick to perform his official duties. But parliament command the prime minister that this sunday would be the last to have the law operational. The PM would then be within this war mandates by parliament, behave as if Belgium was a republic for one day, do the necessary with the backing of a majority in parliament [after some wheeling and dealing], and the law become operative. Come Monday, the King could recover, but have no memory of the sunday in which, senile as he was anyway, other matters of state had been prioritised! A German paper wrote: If the Belgians would be this creative with their economy, Germany would be a Belgian colony. I am happy they keep it to politics! And they do not need Shakespeares to write their royal dramas either! Nereah, what am saying, is, let us be a bit more sophisticated than sending death threat letters to CJ Mutunga, or having him disappear in an unmarked grave or hijacking him like Kivuitu. Let him just fall sick and be admitted to the dysentery unit of KNH for that day. The next day after the swearing in by the friendly judge, he resumes his job. Mutunga can not refuse to swear a rigger on principle. His own courts have come up with a definition of integrity which does not disqualify an ICC indictee from running for PORK. Some integrity clause that. Those same courts can not turn around and declare they have a reluctance to swear in a rigee . First he is sworn in, by protocol dictate after IEBC chair has said so, then the court cases can begin, looking at the electoral offenses alleged.
And then, yes you guessed it! processes, protocols, procedures. The full rigmarole of the circus! with Mutunga friends like the esteemed Ibrahim and the goodly Warsame taking 8 years to schedule a hearing!
You can fool some people some time, can't fool them all all the time.
I told you! yuora, better Harvard than Osgoode. Why? Harvard training does not shirk the Killer instinct when business dictates it.
A Harvard man would have held Kenya the knife. You want integrity, these fellows do not run. You want them for president, you forget integrity. No two ways about it. So screw you, Wanjiku, either way I am keeping my job!
But then, Harvard is imperial!
I will be back.
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Post by kamalet on Mar 2, 2013 21:56:30 GMT 3
The law says that the president will be sworn in by they registrar of the Supreme Court in the presence of Chief Justice.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Mar 2, 2013 22:19:35 GMT 3
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euonyi
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Me, myself and I
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Post by euonyi on Mar 2, 2013 22:32:05 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, enlightnen me a bit: who are the Opus Dei Rasputins you mention above?
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 2, 2013 22:41:02 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, enlightnen me a bit: who are the Opus Dei Rasputins you mention above? The Owners of Kenya, with assistance from leading foot-soldiers in the State House, the AG's office, the NSIS, the Military, the Police, etc. Any manamba down the street should be able to give you names.
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