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Post by kamalet on May 14, 2013 13:20:09 GMT 3
.....and those rights include being stupid and cruel to animals!
Just how in what ever is holy did these fools fighting the MPs think they could include pigs painted with insults and making them eat red coloured rubbish on a public street as a way of passing their message?
There you have it.....you can now see the "depth" in the 'unalienable rights'!
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Post by omundustrong on May 14, 2013 13:58:35 GMT 3
Whereas i dont support cruelty to animals bit the symbolism of the pig cannot be underestimated.But iam with you when it comes to cruelty to animals.However,the message has been passed,just like the proverbial stone,even if it doesnt answer back, it has heard!As to whether they are fools or not the jury is out there.
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Post by b6k on May 14, 2013 14:03:33 GMT 3
Whereas i dont support cruelty to animals bit the symbolism of the pig cannot be underestimated.But iam with you when it comes to cruelty to animals.However,the message has been passed,just like the proverbial stone,even if it doesnt answer back, it has heard!As to whether they are fools or not the jury is out there. I am with you here! I caught a glimpse of the pig & her litter at the gates of parliament but didn't see the insults written on them. For symbolism I give the person who ditched the pigs an "A". What better message can be put across yo our MPigs than one of their own?
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Post by kamalet on May 14, 2013 14:12:12 GMT 3
Whereas i dont support cruelty to animals bit the symbolism of the pig cannot be underestimated.But iam with you when it comes to cruelty to animals.However,the message has been passed,just like the proverbial stone,even if it doesnt answer back, it has heard!As to whether they are fools or not the jury is out there. I am with you here! I caught a glimpse of the pig & her litter at the gates of parliament but didn't see the insults written on them. For symbolism I give the person who ditched the pigs an "A". What better message can be put across yo our MPigs than one of their own? ...and these fools actually abandoned the piglets and I have just seen them being loaded onto a police truck. Those painted piglets were subjected to cruelty by those claiming 'rights'. I see no symbolism here. You cannot compare a rasher or streaky bacon or spare ribs with the MPs!
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Post by kamalet on May 14, 2013 14:34:50 GMT 3
This has to be the worst form of protest! Slaughtering two pigs and then leaving the other piglets and their mother to eat the blood soaked stuff and roll in the blood is just revolting!!
Onyango Oloo - I would like to hear your justification for this cruelty to animals!
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Post by Onyango Oloo on May 14, 2013 14:48:53 GMT 3
This has to be the worst form of protest! Slaughtering two pigs and then leaving the other piglets and their mother to eat the blood soaked stuff and roll in the blood is just revolting!! Onyango Oloo - I would like to hear your justification for this cruelty to animals! Nice try Kamale. First of all, on a light note, do you consume bacon, sausages, ham and other white meat products from former live hogs? Well, if you do, please spare me the hypocrisy. Secondly all this "humane" compassion for pigs will not mask your INHUMAN attitude to actual human beings who happen to be Kenyans. Thirdly, this protest was never and will never be about Onyango Oloo I am researching for my next piece, which is about Occupy Parliament, May 14, Nairobi 2013. Onyango Oloo
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Post by kamalet on May 14, 2013 15:13:07 GMT 3
This has to be the worst form of protest! Slaughtering two pigs and then leaving the other piglets and their mother to eat the blood soaked stuff and roll in the blood is just revolting!! Onyango Oloo - I would like to hear your justification for this cruelty to animals! Nice try Kamale. First of all, on a light note, do you consume bacon, sausages, ham and other white meat products from former live hogs? Well, if you do, please spare me the hypocrisy. Secondly all this "humane" compassion for pigs will not mask your INHUMAN attitude to actual human beings who happen to be Kenyans. Thirdly, this protest was never and will never be about Onyango Oloo I am researching for my next piece, which is about Occupy Parliament, May 14, Nairobi 2013. Onyango Oloo Oloo Yes the former live hogs produce favourite meats in the form of ham, bacon, and spare ribs and I think their produce does rank higher than that from the MPs. It is not hypocritical to suggest that the symbolism of pigs in describing MPs fails on account of the fact I do not agree that the MPs equal Pigs...they do not! They are several rungs lower than the pig! How is diagreeing with the Kenyans inhuman when I think they are patently wrong? I said civil society has no monopoly of knowledge to tell Kenyans what or even how they should or should not agree with them. Finally - it is not about Oloo as you think. It is you who was preaching the protest to us here in Jukwaa being a a member of the organising committee.... Pity that after all the pigs blood that now has some muslims offended, it was a complete waste of time!
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Post by omundu on May 14, 2013 16:52:24 GMT 3
Is there a a legal definition of Animal Cruelty in our legal code ?
My research of legal codes in western countries define animal cruelty with specific exclusion of accepted animal husbandry practices e.g for wildlife, animals in labs and common/traditional agricultural practices. Basically it is animal cruelty if you, amongst other things, kill animals not traditionally meant to be killed.
I see no clear definition of cruelty by the pigs being written on and feeding on blood (whether from a pig or not, they are feeding what they would normally feed on. ask any pig farmer) Is the cruelty that they are doing it in a location that is not a farm ?
Now, Kamale, that we have established that you do really care for the welfare of living, breathing animals, what is your take on the police use of water canons laced with a chemical (some say acid) that causes the skin of a Human to burn ? What about the live bullets used ? what about the other deaths in the hands of police ? You know, humans are also animals. I have never seen you as vehement in protest as you are against the "pigs cruelty" when it involves human lives in kenya. NEVER
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dineo
Junior Member
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Post by dineo on May 14, 2013 17:22:32 GMT 3
How on earth did this topic end up becoming about pigs?
I saw the presence of the animals/blood as performance art and since pork is haram to many Kenyans like myself, it drove the point home.
The excesses of Kenyan MPs will only be terminated by wananchi willing to go to any 'ridiculous' extreme to expose Parliament's malfeasance. Certainly, standing around chanting slogans while holding manilla paper signs is not going to (and never has) brought about change in that country. You have to up the ante, which is what Oloo and his group did so I say say kudos to them.
If I was home, I would have participated, albeit from afar since pigs are haram for me.
I hope the MPs got the message.
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Post by mank on May 14, 2013 18:11:47 GMT 3
Have all options available in law been exhausted to resort to this route or do the options available to Kenyans for recourse no longer matter? The energy and money being "wasted" on pointless placards should have been channelled to help fund the legal application by Okiya Omtata challenging the actions of the MPs. I am afraid that like many previous initiatives this will fail and the disruption making the financial savings the demos puport to fight for wasted. Go to court if you are disatisfied....not on the streets! Serem has already said she will not accept the MPs demands, so why are we wasting time on this 'occupy parliament' ? There should be some form of originality in how we design protests and copying ideas from elsewhere the object is bound to fail! Kamale, When we say Kenyans should be involved in building the democracy they want, this is one way of involvement we must be talking about. Otherwise if Kenyans stand aside and watch, those courts on which you seem to put so much trust will be lobbied or intimidated by the only side that is speaking to a point that they will be representing nothing of value to the typical Kenyan. When you say this effort will fail, I believe you are gauging failure/success in a very narrow sense. The effort is already a success to the extent that the fattened leach may now have gotten the alarm that the sickly cow cannot stand the parasitism any more. Silence, for so long, has only given them leeway to hike those so-called salaries to the current ridiculous levels. Silence would only give them more space advance their gluttonous expedition.
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Post by Mobimba on May 14, 2013 18:54:47 GMT 3
The 'mama pig' had inscribed on its ass, by use of pig blood, in capital letters, DUALE (as seen on BBC). Now Duale is a blackened-forehead practicing Muslim.
I support the turning of Parliament into a piggery but for Allah's sake, leave the Muslims out of the pig business. They don’t got jokes.
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Post by kamalet on May 14, 2013 21:04:57 GMT 3
Is there a a legal definition of Animal Cruelty in our legal code ? My research of legal codes in western countries define animal cruelty with specific exclusion of accepted animal husbandry practices e.g for wildlife, animals in labs and common/traditional agricultural practices. Basically it is animal cruelty if you, amongst other things, kill animals not traditionally meant to be killed. I see no clear definition of cruelty by the pigs being written on and feeding on blood (whether from a pig or not, they are feeding what they would normally feed on. ask any pig farmer) Is the cruelty that they are doing it in a location that is not a farm ? Now, Kamale, that we have established that you do really care for the welfare of living, breathing animals, what is your take on the police use of water canons laced with a chemical (some say acid) that causes the skin of a Human to burn ? What about the live bullets used ? what about the other deaths in the hands of police ? You know, humans are also animals. I have never seen you as vehement in protest as you are against the "pigs cruelty" when it involves human lives in kenya. NEVER Why was it necessary to wat cannon the demonstrators? They. Had been allowed to say their bit and when asked to leave the entrance to parliament to allow MPs execute their constitutional duties, they became rowdy. All this was seen on live TV so it is not made up.. Water cannons have always had the chemical mixed with water that causes itching so it is not acid as some want to claim. Now where is this lie being peddled of live bullets and do we actually have people with holes in their bottoms? Which animals are not traditionally meant to be killed? Their is even a code of how to humanely kill animals for consumption and the public execution of the pigs was cruelty.....but I can imagine that we can work hard to create a new definition of cruelty! Primitive is surely fine!
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Post by audacityofhope on May 14, 2013 22:13:45 GMT 3
.. and the public execution of the pigs was cruelty..... Just curious.. is cruelty to animals not to do with infliction of suffering or harm upon the animal and not necessarily whether there was a crowd to watch or not? And as for the treat the pigs were fed upon this I know of pigs: They eat anything.
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Post by einstein on May 14, 2013 22:31:55 GMT 3
.. and the public execution of the pigs was cruelty..... Just curious.. is cruelty to animals not to do with infliction of suffering or harm upon the animal and not necessarily whether there was a crowd to watch or not? And as for the treat the pigs were fed upon this I know of pigs: They eat anything. ! Am laughing my a.s.s. off!! As Jeff Koinange would say on the bench "folks, you cannot just make some of this stuff up"!
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Post by jakaswanga on May 14, 2013 22:57:39 GMT 3
Kenya is no place for greedy bastards! !! Those mPIGS did not realize what they were asking for ... now they should! Irie feeling about this. And now that Kenyans have opened their mouth, they should not keep quite till they are unambiguously heard. Kudos to all those who have organized this voice ... especially to Jukwaa's OO. =========== That's serious! Who, besides mPIGs, constitute "public servants"? This is called stripping. Right there in red, is the signature tune to the disaster Uhuru Kenyatta's presidency will be. Sunk under the burden of a wage bill for no services. The parasites, ate the host dead. The story of Kenya. Fumigate, Uhuru, fumigate! The belly of the nation is distended not as a sign of wealth, but a sagging sack of worms! Toa minyoo, Uhuru Kamwana, toa minyoo uokoe nchi uwe tukufu!
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Post by jakaswanga on May 14, 2013 23:01:34 GMT 3
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Post by omundu on May 14, 2013 23:48:44 GMT 3
Is there a a legal definition of Animal Cruelty in our legal code ? My research of legal codes in western countries define animal cruelty with specific exclusion of accepted animal husbandry practices e.g for wildlife, animals in labs and common/traditional agricultural practices. Basically it is animal cruelty if you, amongst other things, kill animals not traditionally meant to be killed. I see no clear definition of cruelty by the pigs being written on and feeding on blood (whether from a pig or not, they are feeding what they would normally feed on. ask any pig farmer) Is the cruelty that they are doing it in a location that is not a farm ? Now, Kamale, that we have established that you do really care for the welfare of living, breathing animals, what is your take on the police use of water canons laced with a chemical (some say acid) that causes the skin of a Human to burn ? What about the live bullets used ? what about the other deaths in the hands of police ? You know, humans are also animals. I have never seen you as vehement in protest as you are against the "pigs cruelty" when it involves human lives in kenya. NEVER Why was it necessary to wat cannon the demonstrators? They. Had been allowed to say their bit and when asked to leave the entrance to parliament to allow MPs execute their constitutional duties, they became rowdy. All this was seen on live TV so it is not made up.. Water cannons have always had the chemical mixed with water that causes itching so it is not acid as some want to claim. Now where is this lie being peddled of live bullets and do we actually have people with holes in their bottoms? Which animals are not traditionally meant to be killed? Their is even a code of how to humanely kill animals for consumption and the public execution of the pigs was cruelty.....but I can imagine that we can work hard to create a new definition of cruelty! Primitive is surely fine! Kamale. Just check pics on social media or any other source of images about the protest. You will see cops beating people who are laying on the ground. Scenes only reminiscent of the moi era. There are also images of spent cartridges and I say this because in a past life, I managed to acquire a thorough knowledge of weaponry and I know how spent AK live catridges look like. I also happen to be friends with some of the protest organizers and they swear that no animals were slaughtered at the protest. The pigs or mpigs were well fed and taken care of before, during (hehehehe) and after the protest. The organizers even called the KSPCA to handle the animals after the protest, despite some protestors being arrested. I also have a muslim friend or two who attended the protest and had prior knowledge of the pigs so had to stay a few meters away. They had no qualms and actually were glad that the disgust expressed by the image will actually attract attention worldwide. Just check all major news outlets worldwide and see the attention the protest has gotten. Non of the international press express your reservations on the pigs. On the contrary,the articles express a sense of quiet... Wow (can't find the right word) Basically. Attention has been focused and with that, the protesters have achieved their goal.
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Post by b6k on May 15, 2013 0:12:32 GMT 3
I am with you here! I caught a glimpse of the pig & her litter at the gates of parliament but didn't see the insults written on them. For symbolism I give the person who ditched the pigs an "A". What better message can be put across yo our MPigs than one of their own? ...and these fools actually abandoned the piglets and I have just seen them being loaded onto a police truck. Those painted piglets were subjected to cruelty by those claiming 'rights'. I see no symbolism here. You cannot compare a rasher or streaky bacon or spare ribs with the MPs! Kamale, what's in a name? That which we call an M-pig by any other name would smell as foul. One man's rasher is another's streaky bacon. Some legislators should not be spared criticism....
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Post by mank on May 15, 2013 5:34:05 GMT 3
Kenya is no place for greedy bastards! !! Those mPIGS did not realize what they were asking for ... now they should! Irie feeling about this. And now that Kenyans have opened their mouth, they should not keep quite till they are unambiguously heard. Kudos to all those who have organized this voice ... especially to Jukwaa's OO. =========== That's serious! Who, besides mPIGs, constitute "public servants"? This is called stripping. Right there in red, is the signature tune to the disaster Uhuru Kenyatta's presidency will be. Sunk under the burden of a wage bill for no services. The parasites, ate the host dead. The story of Kenya. Fumigate, Uhuru, fumigate! The belly of the nation is distended not as a sign of wealth, but a sagging sack of worms! Toa minyoo, Uhuru Kamwana, toa minyoo uokoe nchi uwe tukufu!Jakaswanga, Uhuru will need more luck than there could reasonably be. With the current bloat of the army of idlers who meet only to plot another hike of their loot in the name of salaries, and each of the idlers having gotten bolder in demanding more for more idling, the minyoo belly is only likely to get larger. Soon we shall be asking for constitutional reform to cut down the dead weight!
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Post by diramu on May 15, 2013 10:41:59 GMT 3
Nice try Kamale. First of all, on a light note, do you consume bacon, sausages, ham and other white meat products from former live hogs? Well, if you do, please spare me the hypocrisy. Secondly all this "humane" compassion for pigs will not mask your INHUMAN attitude to actual human beings who happen to be Kenyans. Thirdly, this protest was never and will never be about Onyango Oloo I am researching for my next piece, which is about Occupy Parliament, May 14, Nairobi 2013. Onyango Oloo Oloo Yes the former live hogs produce favourite meats in the form of ham, bacon, and spare ribs and I think their produce does rank higher than that from the MPs. It is not hypocritical to suggest that the symbolism of pigs in describing MPs fails on account of the fact I do not agree that the MPs equal Pigs...they do not! They are several rungs lower than the pig! How is diagreeing with the Kenyans inhuman when I think they are patently wrong? I said civil society has no monopoly of knowledge to tell Kenyans what or even how they should or should not agree with them. Finally - it is not about Oloo as you think. It is you who was preaching the protest to us here in Jukwaa being a a member of the organising committee.... Pity that after all the pigs blood that now has some muslims offended, it was a complete waste of time! Kamale, Muslims are forbideen from eating pork.Were muslims forced to eat pork by the protesters? Why then will they get offended?
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Post by Onyango Oloo on May 15, 2013 10:49:31 GMT 3
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Post by podp on May 15, 2013 16:32:27 GMT 3
How on earth did this topic end up becoming about pigs? I saw the presence of the animals/blood as performance art and since pork is haram to many Kenyans like myself, it drove the point home. The excesses of Kenyan MPs will only be terminated by wananchi willing to go to any 'ridiculous' extreme to expose Parliament's malfeasance. Certainly, standing around chanting slogans while holding manilla paper signs is not going to (and never has) brought about change in that country. You have to up the ante, which is what Oloo and his group did so I say say kudos to them. If I was home, I would have participated, albeit from afar since pigs are haram for me. I hope the MPs got the message. BREAKING: Pigs arrested. Charged with going HAM and porking their noses in MPs' business. www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/14/kenyans-release-three-dozen-pigs-in-front-of-parliament/that is how one commentator have it and another one says The fat pig is my representative. my best read so far has headline 'Kenyans use live pigs to protest salary hike for lawmakers' Read more: www.upi.com/Top_News/World-News/2013/05/15/Kenyans-use-live-pigs-to-protest-salary-hike-for-lawmakers/UPI-90931368619310/#ixzz2TMr0SlAYso those who love what the mPigs are doing will obviously divert the story to focus on the pigs and invove the Kenya Society for the Protection and Care of Animals. just for those who have not visited the KSPCA located at Karen most of the animals given space there are dogs, cats and donkeys. it will be swell to add pigs too. but what of the main reason for the protests. the mPigs are they still hell bent to get the highers salaries and additionally get rid of the Serem led Salaries and Remuneration Commission. what of the police reforms. why were the police attacking and arresting protesters whom they had granted a licence to demonstrate. did you see Prof. Yash Ghai being made wet with a water canon yet he was standing still! as those who empathize with the pigs continue, what do we have to say about the twin issue of police reforms and mPigs greed?
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Post by omundustrong on May 15, 2013 16:44:28 GMT 3
PODP, Thanks for sharing the links,the success of such venture is the publicity generated and i think on this score the "Occupy Parliament team achieved their objectives.The diversion to talking about pigs is a smokescreen.
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Post by abdulmote on May 15, 2013 17:30:41 GMT 3
I am very familiar with Kamalet's dislike of the 'Civic Activists' and in that respect I am not at all surprised at his stand on this issue. Having said that, I don't think the organizers could have used any better demonstration than the one used! I love the fact that the pigs imagery is likely to remain in their minds every time some MPigs starts to yap about their salary increase. Bravo to that, my religious beliefs and practices aside.
It is a shame that in Kenya, the poor electorate always ends up having to find other ways of fighting for their rights, against the very same representatives they would have elected to do the same on their behalf!
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Post by einstein on May 16, 2013 2:42:08 GMT 3
Good people,
I just read somewhere that the MP Aden Duale is going to sue the organisers of 'Occupy Parliament' protest for having branded one of the pigs used during the protest on the 14.05.2013 after him (his name)! The man is now headed to Willy Mutunga's courts!
But I fail to get the gist of his court action given that it is normal in a Kenyan setting to label animals with names derived from human beings! If my memory serves me right, Raila has named one of his milk cows after non other than our current Secretary of I-do-not-know-which-government-ministry, Ms. Ngilu and she has never protested out of religious or feminists point of view! B6K would do this board a great favour by posting that very video clip showing Raila introducing his flock and cattle named after real living Kenyan human beings!?
So, what is exactly wrong with branding a gluttonous pig after Duale the glutton? The imagery is perfectly in tandem with Duale's, the MP, behaviour after getting elected to parliament!
As a little child growing up, I remember my dad branding his fiercest dog the name 'Njenga' after the 'brave' Kenyan who killed via a gun shot a fellow Kenyan by the name Tom Mboya. I bet my mother's only goat that my father saw in this dog the fierce image of one 'Mr. Njenga'! Nobody took my father to court for that!
But more importantly, I would want to believe that Willy Mutunga will NOT allow any one of his courts to be reduced to non issues by allowing the real MPigs Duale and Co. to blatantly SHIT on them courts!
I also read somewhere that Willy Mutunga thinks that ALL Kenyans now TRUST his courts! The way he and his cohorts now handle Duale's case will give the whole country the bearing as to who Willy Mutunga really is!
Willy, the ball is now right inside your court, most likely, for the last time this time round! Fuack it up and you are gone with no legacy to talk about especially after what your courts did vis-a-vis the Notorious Big Pattni case!
We have already moved on after your fiasco with the election petition. This does not matter anymore, rather it is what you do now after that election petition that will define your legacy! You got only, I think, two years left to leave a mark and a legacy in Kenya. You surely do not want to waste it again. Normally people have only one single and important shot in life, but who knows, this could be your second and very last shot. It is a do or die for you my brother!!
Peace!!
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