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Post by Onyango Oloo on Jun 2, 2013 21:09:19 GMT 3
 I KNOW that there is already a TJRC thread. Once you see the attachments, you will see why it was NECESSARY to make this a stand alone thread. Final report Procedures (Signed).pdf (140.13 KB) Intl.Comm.Dissent Final.pdf (143.84 KB) Onyango Oloo
Jukwaa Administrator ( among the thousands who testified before the Commission) |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 2, 2013 22:20:18 GMT 3
All that was drafted before Uhuru became the Big Guy. Now the Kenyan commissioners too must eat. The more things change ....
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Jun 2, 2013 22:33:30 GMT 3
It is evidently clear from the dissenting statement that Kenyatta and his cronies stole land in the Coast. The testimony given in narrative identifies the stolen land , description of the theft, identifies who are the thieves, and so on. In my opinion, legal action must be instituted in the High Court immediately by the affected people to seek their land. I call upon the KNHRC to start the proceeding immediately, no need for further investigation, here. The following pieces of land can be recovered, 1. The wedding gift of a large tract of government land given by Jomo Kenyatta when Muigai, his son, married Isaiah Mathenge’s daughter in 1976. 2. The land offered by the Criticos family - all of the proportion, stolen by several politicians started with Jomo Kenyatta himself. 3. Huge chunks of land meant for settlement scheme taking from the people who were meant to have them. Someone has already taken the Kenyatta family to Court. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000084763&story_title=jomo-kenyatta-grabbed-my-land-man-tells-courtAs for the dissenting report, I could not help but note that none of the local commissioners were able or willing to partake in the dissenting. Were they afraid, soft backboned, or corrupted, or all of the above, I wonder? |
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Post by podp on Jun 2, 2013 22:47:48 GMT 3
It is evidently clear from the dissenting statement that Kenyatta and his cronies stole land in the Coast. The testimony given in narrative identifies the stolen land , description of the theft, identifies who are the thieves, and so on. In my opinion, legal action must be instituted in the High Court immediately by the affected people to seek their land. I call upon the KNHRC to start the proceeding immediately, no need for further investigation, here. The following pieces of land can be recovered, 1. The wedding gift of a large tract of government land given by Jomo Kenyatta when Muigai, his son, married Isaiah Mathenge’s daughter in 1976. 2. The land offered by the Criticos family - all of the proportion, stolen by several politicians started with Jomo Kenyatta himself. 3. Huge chunks of land meant for settlement scheme taking from the people who were meant to have them. Someone has already taken the Kenyatta family to Court. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000084763&story_title=jomo-kenyatta-grabbed-my-land-man-tells-courtAs for the dissenting report, I could not help but note that none of the local commissioners were able or willing to partake in the dissenting. Were they afraid, soft backboned, or corrupted, or all of the above, I wonder? remember the verdict of the Chief Justice led Supreme Court had no dissenters! but murmurs that it was a 4:2 still persist fast forward when the vetting of the Cabinet Secretary was done the committee giving Parliament its report had no dissenters. yet we all heard a day before presenting the list to Parliament there were Cabinet Secretaries not thought to be fit for holding public office so slowly and surely KANU methods of the 80s are creeping back. the question is will we allow them to succeed? kila mtu aimbe na afuate nyayo. "Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful." |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 3, 2013 0:40:33 GMT 3
These three commissioners have done themselves proud and shown integrity and seriousness. Sadly, in the Kingdom of Impunity their noble efforts will come to nought. On the whole, the majority of Kenyans have little use for truth, justice, etc. What they do understand is pain, and there will not be any significant change in Kenya until they experience the kind of pain Moi dished out. Obviously Baba-Na-Mama is gone, but endless and rising insecurity, world-class corruption, high youth unemployment, a deterioration in many aspects of life .... these will eventually add up.
As for land issues, goats cannot expect hyenas to solve problems that arose when a few hyenas dined on some goats. As I have stated before, it's just a matter of time before thre is another attempt of provide a "final solution" to the problem of "stolen land". When, not if.
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Post by kamalet on Jun 3, 2013 15:38:18 GMT 3
Many Kenyans have generally treated the report of the TJRC as a complete waste of money and as someone said in the media, it was a hopeless copy and paste job. This dissent by the 3 "foreigners" on the commission just goes to prove what a time wasting effor they were involved in and as they go about carrying their conscience on 'alterations to the report', I hope their conscience also tells them they were part of a fraud perpetrated on Kenyans by the commission.
So Criticos was selling his land at Shs. 600 per acre in 2008? And Kenyatta was giving away Tiwi and Diani trust land for Shs. 600 an acre......just what laziness is this apart from being a complete untruth??
I know that the Slye guy is a registered member of Jukwaa and one can see the results of his flip flopping in the commission's report!
This is just embarrassing!
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Post by einstein on Jun 3, 2013 17:34:01 GMT 3
Many Kenyans have generally treated the report of the TJRC as a complete waste of money and as someone said in the media, it was a hopeless copy and paste job. This dissent by the 3 "foreigners" on the commission just goes to prove what a time wasting effor they were involved in and as they go about carrying their conscience on 'alterations to the report', I hope their conscience also tells them they were part of a fraud perpetrated on Kenyans by the commission. So Criticos was selling his land at Shs. 600 per acre in 2008? And Kenyatta was giving away Tiwi and Diani trust land for Shs. 600 an acre......just what laziness is this apart from being a complete untruth?? I know that the Slye guy is a registered member of Jukwaa and one can see the results of his flip flopping in the commission's report! This is just embarrassing! Come on Kamale, not you again! You drip impunity!! What a drip you are  !! Just reread what you have written up there! You just cannot be serious! |
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tov
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Post by tov on Jun 3, 2013 20:51:19 GMT 3
It is very clear to me that someone tried to compromise the independence of TJRC if the dissenting sentiments published here is worth the time and space accorded to it. Whether this 'wonk' succeeded in his/her mission is not the point, but the allegation is serious enough to warrant a proper investigation. It is incumbent on the president to lead by example and show that there are no more barns for sacred cows left in the new digital dispensation.
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 3, 2013 20:56:16 GMT 3
It is very clear to me that someone tried to compromise the independence of TJRC if the dissenting sentiments published here is worth the time and space accorded to it. Whether this 'wonk' succeeded in his/her mission is not the point, but the allegation is serious enough to warrant a proper investigation. It is incumbent on the president to lead by example and show that there are no more barns for sacred cows left in the new digital dispensation. Except for the little matter that it was the president who authorized and paid for the buying of the Kenyan commissioners. |
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tov
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Post by tov on Jun 4, 2013 2:16:27 GMT 3
It is very clear to me that someone tried to compromise the independence of TJRC if the dissenting sentiments published here is worth the time and space accorded to it. Whether this 'wonk' succeeded in his/her mission is not the point, but the allegation is serious enough to warrant a proper investigation. It is incumbent on the president to lead by example and show that there are no more barns for sacred cows left in the new digital dispensation. Except for the little matter that it was the president who authorized and paid for the buying of the Kenyan commissioners. I am not surprised but very sad that history is bound to repeat itself meaning 'probably' a lost century to some citizens. As we move through the various phases of grieving and jubilations after the March elections, we are quickly retreating into what we are very good at - resigning to the status quo. Thanks to the 'move on clarion call' that has been used successfully to subdue and benumb alternative if not critical discourse. Many people even in this forum will disagree with me for suggesting that at the epicentre of the tensions holding our nation ransom is perception - whether real or not - of 'CERTAIN HISTORICAL INJUSTICES.' Unfortunately, this is not a 'so cool topic' in some quarters because it might awaken the 'sleeping lion'. No wonder people shudder at the mention that secessionists like MRC have some legitimate grudge, though they have adopted an unpalatable means of venting it out. This issue - Historical injustices - whether real or not cannot be ignored or if we do, then at our own peril. The truth is ... The sooner it is tackled the better for all. We are preparing once again to let go an opportunity to heal and bind our nation together like we have shamelessly done in the past. We stand at a great moment in time when we can stand tall and bend the arc towards justice for the sake of our posterity. With this in mind, it is deeply worrying that the TJRC report is getting blacked out in both mainstream and social media. Here is an example, not much is said in the print media about the dissenting views of the three TJRC commissioners. There could be good reasons for this silence; either the dissent is uncalled for or someone is doing a good job to ensure that it does not see the light of the day. I stand to be corrected, but ... is the clamour for 'fatter' pay check by the so called 'm-pigs' a decoy to bury the TJRC report? If not, isn't there any substantive information that will help move this country forward? Or, have WE simply resigned to the 'let it be'cocoon? TIME WILL TELL. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 4, 2013 4:42:57 GMT 3
Many people even in this forum will disagree with me for suggesting that at the epicentre of the tensions holding our nation ransom is perception - whether real or not - of 'CERTAIN HISTORICAL INJUSTICES.' Unfortunately, this is not a 'so cool topic' in some quarters because it might awaken the 'sleeping lion'. No wonder people shudder at the mention that secessionists like MRC have some legitimate grudge, though they have adopted an unpalatable means of venting it out. This issue - Historical injustices - whether real or not cannot be ignored or if we do, then at our own peril. The truth is ... The sooner it is tackled the better for all. I absolutely agree with you on most of this; there is a time-bomb waiting to go off (again). The only part I disagree with is the implication of "perception". There is no mere perception here: land was stolen; we know who stole it; we know when they stole it; we know how much they stole; and we know who has been suffering as a result. We might not like the MRC's method's, but has anybody really tried to deal with the fundamental issues? What genuine alternative have they been offered in their struggle against Upcountry Colonialists & Thieves? As for the TJRC report it is already dead; in fact, the dissenting bit shows that it was dead even before the public read a single word of it. Bury it and wait for it to be another report that gets dug up when the ticking time-bomb goes off---where did we go wrong? let's take another look at those old reports. The best Kenyans can hope for is a "TJRC-Report Implementation Commission". And on it goes. |
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Post by kamalet on Jun 4, 2013 8:11:35 GMT 3
Many Kenyans have generally treated the report of the TJRC as a complete waste of money and as someone said in the media, it was a hopeless copy and paste job. This dissent by the 3 "foreigners" on the commission just goes to prove what a time wasting effor they were involved in and as they go about carrying their conscience on 'alterations to the report', I hope their conscience also tells them they were part of a fraud perpetrated on Kenyans by the commission. So Criticos was selling his land at Shs. 600 per acre in 2008? And Kenyatta was giving away Tiwi and Diani trust land for Shs. 600 an acre......just what laziness is this apart from being a complete untruth?? I know that the Slye guy is a registered member of Jukwaa and one can see the results of his flip flopping in the commission's report! This is just embarrassing! Come on Kamale, not you again! You drip impunity!! What a drip you are !! Just reread what you have written up there! You just cannot be serious! Einstein Is it that quiet at DC? You know me am serious about what I write in Jukwaa. The fact that you can spell 'impunity' does not suggest that you understand what it means, so I will let you be. The TJRC was a failure and you can suck up to the report as you wish, but then Kenya is replete with such mediocrity that some of you cannot see the rip off that this report is! |
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Post by podp on Jun 4, 2013 10:42:26 GMT 3
We might not like the MRC's method's, but has anybody really tried to deal with the fundamental issues? What genuine alternative have they been offered in their struggle against Upcountry Colonialists & Thieves? As for the TJRC report it is already dead; in fact, the dissenting bit shows that it was dead even before the public read a single word of it. Bury it and wait for it to be another report that gets dug up when the ticking time-bomb goes off---where did we go wrong? let's take another look at those old reports. The best Kenyans can hope for is a "TJRC-Report Implementation Commission". And on it goes. sometimes you surprise me with the load of negativity was in some Latin American countries and it is interesting what they thought not possible a mere 20 to 30 years ago is now happenning with gusto. sample this www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2013/05/10/dictator-genocide-guatemala/2151713/It was during this time that most of the hundreds of massacres against Maya Indians committed by the army were carried out as part of the U.S.-backed military's scorched-earth offensive against a leftist uprising based in the Mayan heartland. Prosecutors argued during his trial that while in power, Rios Montt knew about and was responsible for the slaughter by subordinates of at least 1,771 people in the Quiche department of Guatemala's western highlands. They said the purported plan was to eliminate an indigenous Mayan ethnic group known as the Ixil in the towns of San Juan Cotzal, San Gaspar Chajul and Santa Maria Nebaj. socialistworker.org/2011/02/14/another-world-is-possible"On the psychological and symbolic level, it is a shattering moment. Remember that Mubarak was the public face of political authoritarianism in the Arab world. He had built one of the most feared security apparatuses, employing five million personnel." .... As Egyptian socialist blogger Hossam el-Hamalawy writes, "[W]e have to take Tahrir to the factories now. As the revolution proceeds an inevitable class polarization is to happen. We have to be vigilant. We shouldn't stop here...We hold the keys to the liberation of the entire region, not just Egypt." |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 4, 2013 17:48:42 GMT 3
Tom Ojienda has denied all the allegations by these foreigners, who probably were strategically planted in this commission to cause trouble. According to Ojienda, all the issues that the so called dissenting opinion raises, were hearsays that were never backed up by any tangible evidence and were dismissed as such by the commission. Maybe the Sly professor and his friends should consider refunding Kenyans their money now that they believe the report is shoddy and not worth the time.
~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 4, 2013 18:53:32 GMT 3
Tom Ojienda has denied all the allegations by these foreigners, who probably were strategically planted in this commission to cause trouble. According to Ojienda, all the issues that the so called dissenting opinion raises, were hearsays that were never backed up by any tangible evidence and were dismissed as such by the commission. Maybe the Sly professor and his friends should consider refunding Kenyans their money now that they believe the report is shoddy and not worth the time. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ That's odd. I was expecting the Kenyan ones to say that they had eaten Uhuru's money and that everything the non-foreigners stated was true. |
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Post by podp on Jun 5, 2013 11:04:33 GMT 3
who stands to benefit most if we are to believe Nation editorial today? TJRC process has been irredeemably damaged Allegations have been made that severely erode the credibility of the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission. If it is true that the TJRC report was altered at the behest of powerful people in government before it was handed over to President Kenyatta a fortnight ago, then the entire report is tainted. The claim that the report was doctored so as not to offend the sensibilities of State House are not idle gossip. That is the substance of extremely serious allegations by three members of the Commission who refused to append their signatures to the report. The three Commissioners — all foreigners who apparently refused to knuckle to government pressure to doctor the report unlike their Kenyan counterparts — claimed than an official at the Office of the President was given an advance copy of the report before it was officially handed over. After that, pressure was applied to have adverse references to land grabbing on the part of founding President Jomo Kenyatta deleted from the report. It is alleged that the Commissioners agreed to alter the report, and also refused to have the dissenting voices put on record. Now the three dissenting TJRC members have gone public and also made available the paragraphs that were irregularly deleted from the report. The issue here is not whether the sections in questions were fair or inaccurate; but that they might have been deleted after the Commission succumbed to external pressure. If so, that alone stands as a severe indictment of the TJRC. The essence of any such commission is that it always remains fiercely independent and carries out its mandate without fear or favour. If the TJRC altered its own report to suit the establishment, the entire truth, justice and reconciliation process is irredeemably damaged. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Editorial/-/440804/440804/-/qmuxi8z/-/index.html |
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tov
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Post by tov on Jun 5, 2013 12:38:17 GMT 3
who stands to benefit most if we are to believe Nation editorial today? TJRC process has been irredeemably damaged Allegations have been made that severely erode the credibility of the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission. If it is true that the TJRC report was altered at the behest of powerful people in government before it was handed over to President Kenyatta a fortnight ago, then the entire report is tainted. The claim that the report was doctored so as not to offend the sensibilities of State House are not idle gossip. That is the substance of extremely serious allegations by three members of the Commission who refused to append their signatures to the report. The three Commissioners — all foreigners who apparently refused to knuckle to government pressure to doctor the report unlike their Kenyan counterparts — claimed than an official at the Office of the President was given an advance copy of the report before it was officially handed over. After that, pressure was applied to have adverse references to land grabbing on the part of founding President Jomo Kenyatta deleted from the report. It is alleged that the Commissioners agreed to alter the report, and also refused to have the dissenting voices put on record. Now the three dissenting TJRC members have gone public and also made available the paragraphs that were irregularly deleted from the report. The issue here is not whether the sections in questions were fair or inaccurate; but that they might have been deleted after the Commission succumbed to external pressure. If so, that alone stands as a severe indictment of the TJRC. The essence of any such commission is that it always remains fiercely independent and carries out its mandate without fear or favour. If the TJRC altered its own report to suit the establishment, the entire truth, justice and reconciliation process is irredeemably damaged. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Editorial/-/440804/440804/-/qmuxi8z/-/index.htmlBy no means. It is probably irredeemably damaged in the eyes of those who would like to knock it off the shelf where it is presumably destined to gather layers of dust. The dissenting commissioners are very clear on their areas of contention - it is just a few paragraphs in the land chapter. I therefore wonder why this would damage the entire document unless someone is desperately trying to use this to cast doubt on the accuracy and reliability of the entire report. |
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kevoh
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Post by kevoh on Jun 5, 2013 15:33:46 GMT 3
The official report was out and now adding the few passages makes it whole. Only people with no integrity would try to doctor a document and only people of integrity would refuse to append their names to a badly done job. I will also add that only a person of integrity will adhere to the recommendations of the TJRC report.
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Post by podp on Jun 5, 2013 15:34:35 GMT 3
By no means. It is probably irredeemably damaged in the eyes of those who would like to knock it off the shelf where it is presumably destined to gather layers of dust. The dissenting commissioners are very clear on their areas of contention - it is just a few paragraphs in the land chapter. I therefore wonder why this would damage the entire document unless someone is desperately trying to use this to cast doubt on the accuracy and reliability of the entire report. (43.66 KB) you sound like someone from the Diaspora as the attached statement released today attests. very hopeful. in case the pdf does not open it reads like below ----- Statement ----- KENYA DIASPORA ALLIANCE CALLS FOR IMPLEMENTATION OF TJRC REPORT FOR SPEEDY RECONCILIATION & NATIONAL HEALING – 5/6/2013 Even as we join other Kenyans in celebrating the Jubilee (50th) Madaraka Day, the Kenya Diaspora Alliance (KDA) wishes to encourage Kenyans to reflect on the path we have walked so far, the successes made, but also the missed opportunities especially the well known and now documented historical injustices of the past 50 years. Like many other fellow citizens, KDA welcomes the recently released Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) Report, the culmination of over 4 years of testimony, investigation and analysis of the many acts of gross injustice that were committed in Kenya between 12 December 1963 and 28 February 2008. The TJRC Report has had mixed reception, but it is noteworthy that it has not shied from naming names and apportioning responsibility for the various injustices visited upon Kenyans by both the State and other Kenyans in the past. KDA applauds the TJRC for carrying out its mandate without fear or favour, and for releasing the report against all odds. We encourage all Kenyans to thoroughly read, validate, internalize, debate and critique the report for people-ownership. Kenya has seen many such reports in the past, however, and virtually none has been acted upon by the government of the day. The KDA hopes that this TRJC report marks a break from that unfortunate past. The injustices named in the TRJC report are too grave to be swept under the carpet. It is KDA’s considered view that if this great nation ever needed reconciling and healing, this is the moment we must grab as a people, without malice and innuendo. The KDA calls for the necessary steps to be taken, without any undue delay, to address the injustices committed and to institute the appropriate actions against suspected perpetrators as provided for by law and by the TJRC Act. It is our considered view that Kenya establishes an all-inclusive National Transitional Assembly (NTA) as a suitable platform to address the ‘justice and reconciliation’ components of the TJRC. The NTA should include the Executive (both at national and devolved levels), legislature, clergy, community elders, youth and women representatives, professionals, Diaspora, workers, victims, among others. It is the hope of KDA that the TJRC report marks a watershed in Kenyan history, and that the full implementation of the recommendations of the TJRC report becomes the beginning of the end of such acts of impunity in this country, moving forward. is a Federation of over 20 of some of the largest Diaspora Organizations across the globe. It is estimated that there are over 3 million Kenyans leaving in the Diaspora around the world. SIGNED: Dr Shem Ochuodho Mr Hebron Mosomi Co-Convenor, KDA Co-Convenor, KDA Convenor, New Vision Kenya (NVK-Mageuzi) Coordinator, Kenyans 4 Change Juba, South Sudan Dallas (Texas), USA info@kenyadiasporaalliance.org, www. kenyadiasporaalliance.org Tel: +1.202.754.3488 |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 5, 2013 15:38:10 GMT 3
sometimes you surprise me with the load of negativity was in some Latin American countries and it is interesting what they thought not possible a mere 20 to 30 years ago is now happenning with gusto. sample this Podp: Yes, I admit mine is a somewhat gloomy view. But sample this: Over in the Phillipines we saw people-power throughout out Marcos; skipping to Europe, we saw people-power work in various countries at the end of the Cold War; ... ; more recently, we saw the Arab Spring. I can't easily think of a similar example in Sub-Saharan Africa, which has had numerous good candidates in the last 50 years. In Sub-Sahara Africa, people seem to have an amazing capacity to absorb abuse. Perhaps in another 20 to 30 years, as you suggest ... But back to the TJRC report ... With Uhuru in power and what we know about the history of the dissent, does anyone really believe that anything can be done about it? As you note, none other than the leading daily is now leading a sly but powerful assault on the report. |
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Post by podp on Jun 5, 2013 16:57:42 GMT 3
sometimes you surprise me with the load of negativity was in some Latin American countries and it is interesting what they thought not possible a mere 20 to 30 years ago is now happenning with gusto. sample this Podp: Yes, I admit mine is a somewhat gloomy view. But sample this: Over in the Phillipines we saw people-power throughout out Marcos; skipping to Europe, we saw people-power work in various countries at the end of the Cold War; ... ; more recently, we saw the Arab Spring. I can't easily think of a similar example in Sub-Saharan Africa, which has had numerous good candidates in the last 50 years. In Sub-Sahara Africa, people seem to have an amazing capacity to absorb abuse. Perhaps in another 20 to 30 years, as you suggest ... But back to the TJRC report ... With Uhuru in power and what we know about the history of the dissent, does anyone really believe that anything can be done about it? As you note, none other than the leading daily is now leading a sly but powerful assault on the report. It is only when the average African, in whatever country he or she finds themselves living, can enjoy the facilities and the lifestyle that are taken for granted in the developed world that we can pat ourselves on the back and say we have succeeded. Everything else is simply part of the journey to get to the Promised Land. There is no reason why this should be such a long journey. Africa is bursting with resources that the whole world needs, it has vast arable tracts of fertile land, huge water reserves, a population that is large enough to form a dynamic consumer market but not too large to become a burden, a workforce that is young, energetic, hard working, very innovative and with a burning desire to succeed. Africa has weathered slavery, colonialism, proxy wars, despotism, looting, denigration, swindles and a million other evils and come out the other end still smiling. Any conference whose objective is keep and broaden the smile on Africa’s face is welcome – otherwise it is a waste of time. www.newafricanmagazine.com/features/special-world-economic-forum-on-africa/delivering-on-africas-promisewhy do I quote the above to counter your pessimism? there was a time in the 60s upto the 90s when most of us believed the Nkuruma mantra of 'seek yee first the political freedom, and all the rest will be added'. now in the 21st century it is economic freedom that will count as it will be virtually impossible for KANU methods of 80s to triumph however much the KANU orphans now fully in charge of State house attempt to revive those old days of KANU infamy. that is why I fully subscribe, elsewhere, to the sentiments of Muthoni Wanyeki www.theeastafrican.co.ke/OpEd/comment/Kenya-s-antics-at-AU-aren-t-about-legality-/-/434750/1869304/-/aqlrc7/-/index.htmlThe effort thus has nothing to do with the law. It is about the manipulation of politics through public relations. Full stop. Victims, survivors and accountability be damned. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jun 5, 2013 21:02:01 GMT 3
Many Kenyans have generally treated the report of the TJRC as a complete waste of money and as someone said in the media, it was a hopeless copy and paste job. This dissent by the 3 "foreigners" on the commission just goes to prove what a time wasting effor they were involved in and as they go about carrying their conscience on 'alterations to the report', I hope their conscience also tells them they were part of a fraud perpetrated on Kenyans by the commission. I agree it was a complete waste of money, because that final report could have been achieved, according to me, by 1/4 the budget. You know, like I believe the Kenyan GDP at $40 billion, should only sustain two houses of parliament with a total of no more than 100Mps earning ksh. 300,000 all inclusive. ---I just realised in some countries far richer, being an MP is not considered a full-time job, because an 'econometric model' which is used to define productive labour could not compute their work-load. It kept on being defined as 'loafing'! If you compare notes, this world will shock you! But, Kamalet, THE Major point of contention here seems to have been land. It has been agreed in many earlier reports that Kenya has a land problem, and needs to sort out the land question. In economics this called LAND REFORM, or AGRARIAN REFORM. A prerequisite of sorts they say! I can not easily think of a country in modern history where Land reform has been a peaceful or voluntary process, discussed and effected in golf-course like discourses. I am therefore open to persuasion that Kenya will the first have a peaceful land reform, but by my own observation of the land question and politics surrounding it in Kenya, I see nothing to convince myself we will be the historical exception. In any case the ejection of the 1/2 a million Gikuyu peasants from the Rift Valley in 2008 was a form of land reform. And Mombasa Republicans are plotting something similar. So I guess the signs are there we will be a statistical normality! Burrying this report does not end the land troubles and the blood thirsty politics of historical injustices. |
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Post by b6k on Jun 6, 2013 0:38:29 GMT 3
sometimes you surprise me with the load of negativity was in some Latin American countries and it is interesting what they thought not possible a mere 20 to 30 years ago is now happenning with gusto. sample this Podp: Yes, I admit mine is a somewhat gloomy view. But sample this: Over in the Phillipines we saw people-power throughout out Marcos; skipping to Europe, we saw people-power work in various countries at the end of the Cold War; ... ; more recently, we saw the Arab Spring. I can't easily think of a similar example in Sub-Saharan Africa, which has had numerous good candidates in the last 50 years. In Sub-Sahara Africa, people seem to have an amazing capacity to absorb abuse. Perhaps in another 20 to 30 years, as you suggest ... But back to the TJRC report ... With Uhuru in power and what we know about the history of the dissent, does anyone really believe that anything can be done about it? As you note, none other than the leading daily is now leading a sly but powerful assault on the report. yours is always a gloomy view but surely you jest. We saw NARC oust Moi's KANU regime & Kenyans were said to be the most optimistic people on the planet, at least for a short while. That non-violent "coup" surpassed anything the Phillipinos or the Arabs brought about in the so-called Arab Spring (which some refer to as a CIA induced regime change across several countries). To put it mildly, in Sub-Saharan Africa we have an amazing capacity to move on.... |
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jesse
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Post by jesse on Jun 6, 2013 12:41:25 GMT 3
ICTJ welcomes TJRC report The International Center for Transitional Justice (ICTJ) welcomes the release of the Truth, Justice and Reconciliation Commission (TJRC) Report, which is the result of an official truth-seeking process undertaken by Kenya following the 2007/2008 post-election violence. The report shares the TJRC’s findings on gross violations of human rights, economic crimes, illegal acquisition of public land, marginalization of communities, and ethnic violence between 1963 and 2008. More: ictj.org/news/ictj-welcomes-kenyas-tjrc-report |
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Post by podp on Jun 6, 2013 12:59:23 GMT 3
But, Kamalet, THE Major point of contention here seems to have been land. It has been agreed in many earlier reports that Kenya has a land problem, and needs to sort out the land question. In economics this called LAND REFORM, or AGRARIAN REFORM. A prerequisite of sorts they say! I can not easily think of a country in modern history where Land reform has been a peaceful or voluntary process, discussed and effected in golf-course like discourses. I am therefore open to persuasion that Kenya will the first have a peaceful land reform, but by my own observation of the land question and politics surrounding it in Kenya, I see nothing to convince myself we will be the historical exception. In any case the ejection of the 1/2 a million Gikuyu peasants from the Rift Valley in 2008 was a form of land reform. And Mombasa Republicans are plotting something similar. So I guess the signs are there we will be a statistical normality!Burrying this report does not end the land troubles and the blood thirsty politics of historical injustices. you are spot on when saying that displacement of our IDP mainly in former Rift Valley in 2008 was land reform. MRC may be planning a similar action. and around the globe starting with those we share the equator, a good thing is happening in Columbia. With 3.7 million internally displaced people, Colombia has more individuals displaced by violence than any other country in the world colombiareports.com/un-colombia-agree-measures-to-ensure-land-restitution/“This restitution policy will benefit the victims of the conflict, but social organizations have a responsibility to them, it is they who are dying, it is they who are threatened, it is they who know problems and the state should have a way to help them and to send a sign that these organizations are legitimate and work on behalf of the most vulnerable communities,” the U.N. representative told the newspaper. from the above it should be clear to our indicted PORK and deputy PORK that the only way to avoid additionally IDPs so that areas like former Rift Valley are cleansed of newcomers is that they remained co-joined at the hip, now by ICC, and in future by some other red herring created to guarantee them borrowed time holding together their restless populations. eventually though the fact that TJRC report is out some form (mild or drastic) form of restitution will come to pass. in a recent publication, Citizenship Deferred: The Politics of Victimhood, Land Restitution and Gender Justice in the Colombian (Post?) Conflict it is clear that going forward or rather to move on special protection measures, land deeds for women and better access to justice must be included in transitional justice processes as a means of fostering gender-equitable development. ijtj.oxfordjournals.org/content/4/2/189.abstractthat must have been in the back of the head of old Jomo because most of his family holdings are held in trust by Uhuru's mum, cousin Beth and step sister Margie. but was that special protection measures, land deeds for women and better access to justice must be included in transitional justice processes as a means of fostering gender-equitable development? |
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