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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 13, 2013 8:54:22 GMT 3
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Post by podp on Nov 13, 2013 10:42:35 GMT 3
kuna watu watafungwa na ICC....I like the chess partners bit...we will discuss |
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Post by stibin on Nov 13, 2013 14:45:18 GMT 3
Where are all these silly, repressive, undemocratic hallucinations of an unbroken JUBILEE MONARCHY coming from? Oloo Asked.
I think one reason the ‘silly…undemocratic hallucinations’ have come up is because as a country we have been in politicking mode since the time Kibaki trashed the infamous MOU with Raila. From that time, Raila aggrieved coalition have preoccupied themselves with winning the subsequent election hence unnecessary politicking. You might have noted CORD is already in campaign mood for 2017 elections! And because Kenyan politics is all about seizing power, you surely expect Jubillee to hallucinate about keeping the throne up to 2030 and beyond.
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Post by omundu on Nov 13, 2013 21:59:19 GMT 3
Valid points Oloo.
I think many kenyans take politics like a game of soccer between man u and arsenal with their predictions ati "we will win etc etc" the core issues escape them. Its more about emotional inklings.
I have come across the "jubilee for twenty years" chant. But under close scrutiny, the basis behind the chant is like mist against a hot afternoon sun; it quickly evaporates.
A few points that reinforce your essay:
- isn't jubilee just a loose conglomerate of parties cobbled up weeks before the election without a proper foundation of a manifesto ? With competing interests (key being devolution) how will they last even ten years ? As you state, we are already seeing murmurings of discontent from one side barely a year into the marriage, and that is what is in public. We recently saw a section of jubilee MP's backing my neighbour Wetangula saying that he has been one of the senators championing devolution. And trust me fellas, the jubilee politicians backing wetangula have backing from many of their affiliates. That's why there is no kelele against their move from certain sections of jubilee. At least kanu lasted because what kept the politicians together was ... Eeehhh... 'Baba moi'. Nothing else. And last I checked, uhuruto was not moi of the nineties. Times are a changing.
- is it the tyranny of numbers as Oloo quips ? Do they mean that it is only the two tribes that will rule kenya for the next twenty years ? The should man up and say so then. But again, aside from my previous point, it raises further questions on how it can be achieved on close scrutiny as Oloo has done; the ruto icc factor, murmerings of discontent on sharing of the cake (sounds like a broken record if you ask me). What will hold them together when it seems, one side (mafia) just used the other to maintain the status quo. Will the leopard eventually change its spots ?
- the technicalities of the twenty year storo confuse me; is it uhuru (with ruto as deputy) for ten years, then ruto (with uhuru as deputy) for another ten ? How will that work constitutionally ? And if it is constitutionally possible for a former president to deputise , will uhuru really do it. Oloo mentions that uhuru ran because he could only trust himself to protect his behind from icc. Will he now trust ruto to do that for him ? And that is if ICC is still on their asses by then. They either will be in (as you say) or we will be a pariah state. And if we are a pariah state, will uhuru trust ruto to protect him from arrest ?
If uhuru doesn't deputise ruto, who will they pick amongst the alliance ? Will the other fringe parties in the alliance accept another person from central to be a deputy ?
Most importantly, will Central accept to vote for Ruto as president ?For me, that's the pertinent question, and I am confident the URP mob, and others know the answer to it. I am almost certain there will be another choice they can go for.
As oloo says, kenyan politics is very fluid. The TNA mob have probably (with help from 'master strategist' Ngunyi)started planning for a post ruto (as deputy) era by courting probably the kamba or Luhya. That's why the shenanigans in ukambani (by elections) and currently in wetangula land.
But we should also ask ourselves: is URP sleeping or strategising ? Is CORD sleeping or strategising ? Some of us remember how Ruto had to convince a large swathe of rift valley politicians to go with jubilee over cord pre-elections... We know the reasons why they had to be convinced and it is mostly trust issues... But convinced they were. What convinced them do the reasons remain valid now or five years from now ?
All I can say is, options are getting less for one side.
Or as Oloo intimates in his essay, are they ?
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Post by michael on Nov 14, 2013 9:02:02 GMT 3
It is easy for jubilee to retain this thing for 20 years. The greatest common denominator here is putting the brakes on agwambo for obvious reasons, that alone is enough fuel to their fire. Actually it is the only thing that unites them. on the same token if agwambo decides to play 2nd fiddle to mr. ruto or another candidate then maybe, just maybe jubilee can be dethroned. As long as agwambo is in the picture jubilee will rule. If Agwambo decides to retire then jubilee will be dethroned. Agwambo is the only factor in this equation that will lead to jubilee retaining the seat for 20yrs +.
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Post by kamalet on Nov 14, 2013 9:46:26 GMT 3
A 20 year rule by Jubilee must surely scare the hell out of Agwambo supporters. Forget about 5, or even 10....that is a difficult proposition!!
We have at present a situation where Jubilee can and will govern Kenya for the next 10 years. Apart from the distraction of the ICC, the 'dynamic duo' as they were referred to by Kibaki have acquitted themselves well over the last six months they have been in power. Whilst playing little politics (as is the case with the guys in Cord) the two have maintained a level of visibility that informs Kenyans that they are actually working and this perhaps best differentiates them with Kibaki.
They may not have built the Thika Superhighway in six months, the developments at the Port of Mombasa as well as the digitisation of various government processes is winning them confidence of Kenyans. The allocation of 30% of government procurement to women and youth is perhaps the biggest success I have seen and this goes way beyond the Huduma one stop offices.
It is on such grounds that the two can lay claim to 20 or 30 years of Jubilee, for it does not appear as if CORD is reforming itself from the permanent electoral mode they are always in to an opposition that for Kenya and not just against Jubilee!
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 14, 2013 9:59:39 GMT 3
Kamale:
Not every Kenyan is Jubilee or CORD.
Not every Luo is an Agwambo supporter.
Some Kenyans like Onyango Oloo are socialists and have other options.
OO
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Post by kamalet on Nov 14, 2013 10:12:13 GMT 3
Kamale:Not every Kenyan is Jubilee or CORD.
Not every Luo is an Agwambo supporter.Some Kenyans like Onyango Oloo are socialists and have other options.
OO Pardon me....but then if you are not in either, then you are insignificant in the wider political scheme of things! Why did you drag in Luos into the conversation? Agwambo supporters is certainly not equal to Luo as CORD does join up a lot more communities! But I can guess where you were coming from...so let us leave it there! |
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Post by enigma on Nov 14, 2013 11:09:50 GMT 3
Kamalet,
Yes Kibaki did all those wonderful things but it was not enough to keep him in Power. He had to literally steal an election with a machete.
Let's not suffer a lobotomy and reboot the hippocampus every five years.
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Post by kamalet on Nov 14, 2013 11:59:13 GMT 3
Kamalet, Yes Kibaki did all those wonderful things but it was not enough to keep him in Power. He had to literally steal an election with a machete. Let's not suffer a lobotomy and reboot the hippocampus every five years. I see you missed the ferry and got on the wrong boat.....It was not about Kibaki! |
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 14, 2013 12:47:22 GMT 3
Kamale:
I am familiar with your writing and thinking online.
I have been interacting with you on these forums for OVER TEN YEARS.
Onyango Oloo
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Post by enigma on Nov 14, 2013 13:53:47 GMT 3
Kamalet, Yes Kibaki did all those wonderful things but it was not enough to keep him in Power. He had to literally steal an election with a machete. Let's not suffer a lobotomy and reboot the hippocampus every five years. I see you missed the ferry and got on the wrong boat.....It was not about Kibaki! You made a superlative comparison to Kibaki and his achievements. Means something doesn't it? |
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Post by b6k on Nov 14, 2013 14:29:54 GMT 3
Kamale:Not every Kenyan is Jubilee or CORD.
Not every Luo is an Agwambo supporter.Some Kenyans like Onyango Oloo are socialists and have other options.
OO ...yet with all those "other options", Onyango Oloo endorsed Rayila Amolo Odinga, not once but twice right here on Jukwaa!  |
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Post by enigma on Nov 14, 2013 16:01:15 GMT 3
Hegemonic Sycophants trying to clever by half on Jukwaa.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 15, 2013 5:58:10 GMT 3
b6k:
How did Raila and Oloo become the subject of this thread?
I chuckle at the transparent attempts by ethnic chauvinists and Jubilee apologists to hijack this topic.
But I know you have all read and heard all the unpalatable things I had to say in my digital essay.
Onyango Oloo
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 15, 2013 6:04:06 GMT 3
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 15, 2013 6:06:39 GMT 3
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 15, 2013 6:10:08 GMT 3
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 15, 2013 6:18:22 GMT 3
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 15, 2013 6:23:05 GMT 3
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 15, 2013 6:26:45 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Nov 15, 2013 9:00:54 GMT 3
Kamale:I am familiar with your writing and thinking online. I have been interacting with you on these forums for OVER TEN YEARS.
Onyango Oloo Mr. Oloo!!! Just how can you claim familiarity with my thinking if my writing is that confusing? Are you by any chance suggesting that I hold the view that all Luos are supporters of Agwambo - forget about the fact that you created the phrase and not me? Do you know how many Luos I can present to you who actually think Agwambo is the sole reason for the poverty of Luo Nyanza (whatever that is supposed to mean!)? So here is a simple fact that I do not even have to think about when I write it - "All CORD supporting Luos are supporters of Raila (and not of Kalonzo or Wetangula)!!!". So where do you fit in Mr. Oloo? |
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Post by b6k on Nov 16, 2013 10:20:43 GMT 3
b6k:How did Raila and Oloo become the subject of this thread? I chuckle at the transparent attempts by ethnic chauvinists and Jubilee apologists to hijack this topic.But I know you have all read and heard all the unpalatable things I had to say in my digital essay. Onyango Oloo , I was simply pointing out that with all your said options, you always seem to end up endorsing the same candidate. Indeed I read your essay & agreed with a lot of what you had to say. I happen to be among those who believe that 20 year rule under Jubilee is a pipe dream at best. Somehow the fact that I do not support CORD is taken to mean I am a "Jubilee apologist". Nothing could be further from the truth. I also fail to see why the "ethnic chauvinism" charge is liberally used against those who don't believe the candidate you perennially endorse is the best thing since sliced bread... PS: If former KANU secretary general, Rayila Amolo Odinga had won the last presidential election your premise that KANU would be enjoying part of its 100 year rule would still be valid. Go figure... |
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