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Post by Onyango Oloo on Dec 13, 2013 15:38:41 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Dec 13, 2013 18:10:02 GMT 3
Whilst the picture is definitely not Kenya, the fact that parts of Nairobi and not Gilgil have near similar toilet behavior is a sad indictment on the type of leadership that part of Nairobi has endured for nearly 20 of the 50 years!!!! |
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Post by mank on Dec 13, 2013 20:32:11 GMT 3
This technology is better than the Nairobi's contemporary - the latter is to blame for multi-rivers of sewage in many parts of the city and much of the suburbs. But communal shitting? Yearkhhhhhhhh.......... |
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Post by OtishOtish on Dec 13, 2013 21:21:35 GMT 3
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Post by OtishOtish on Dec 13, 2013 21:21:46 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Dec 13, 2013 21:36:47 GMT 3
I for one believe that if you intend to make a political point then the evidence (in this case the photo) should be an accurate portrayal of what is wanting in KE. If this is elsewhere then the author gets as much a "fail" as Sonko with his photoshopped Kodak moment. I thought the communal crapper went out with ancient Rome? At least even flying toilets are private affairs. Now some foreigners will look at that photo and assume we all crap like that. Eeeeeew! Former citizen, Otishotish, the CJ actually talked about "politicians" (who happen to be Kenyan) having to deal with their..."disputes"  |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Dec 13, 2013 22:01:02 GMT 3
Kamale
Wewe wacha uchokozi.
Are suggesting the poor toilet behaviour of Kiberians has do to with Raila, their leader?
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Post by OtishOtish on Dec 13, 2013 22:09:53 GMT 3
At least even flying toilets are private affairs. Until a load lands on the head of the guy walking along the path ... And the flying-toilet image is better? A guy does it in a sandwich bag ( private) and then tosses it out to wherever ( not private and dangerous). Shit is shit. At such a low level, I would not stop to make fine distinctions. |
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Post by b6k on Dec 14, 2013 13:27:13 GMT 3
At least even flying toilets are private affairs. Until a load lands on the head of the guy walking along the path ... And the flying-toilet image is better? A guy does it in a sandwich bag ( private) and then tosses it out to wherever ( not private and dangerous). Shit is shit. At such a low level, I would not stop to make fine distinctions. , no I disagree with you. A defecation is not a defecation. If well secured within a jwala, a flying toilet can be easily cleaned up by cleaning crews (assuming they exist). The communal long drop in the picture stolen by OO, as odd as it seems, also at least secures human waste in the confines of a pit latrine thereby thwarting the potential for epidemics from diseases such as cholera or typhoid. If you have ever had the unfortunate "honor" of visiting India, you may have noted that the locals there have a tradition of walking out of their homes at the crack of dawn and defecating, in full view of one another in open fields, by the road side, or on the railway tracks (I once saw this in Bombay & will never forget the sight or the smell)! That is the lowest of the low when it comes to relieving oneself as it leaves the general populace prone to contamination from the various... deposits strewn about all over the place. Cleaning these deposits up is a lot harder than cleaning up the flying toilets of Kibera. So in this respect at least, KE at 50 is light years ahead of India at 66, even with the odd flying toilet here or there!  |
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Post by OtishOtish on Dec 14, 2013 17:43:43 GMT 3
Otishotish, no I disagree with you. A defecation is not a defecation. If well secured within a jwala, a flying toilet can be easily cleaned up by cleaning crews (assuming they exist). The communal long drop in the picture stolen by OO, as odd as it seems, also at least secures human waste in the confines of a pit latrine thereby thwarting the potential for epidemics from diseases such as cholera or typhoid. If you have ever had the unfortunate "honor" of visiting India, you may have noted that the locals there have a tradition of walking out of their homes at the crack of dawn and defecating, in full view of one another in open fields, by the road side, or on the railway tracks (I once saw this in Bombay & will never forget the sight or the smell)! That is the lowest of the low when it comes to relieving oneself as it leaves the general populace prone to contamination from the various... deposits strewn about all over the place. Cleaning these deposits up is a lot harder than cleaning up the flying toilets of Kibera. So in this respect at least, KE at 50 is light years ahead of India at 66, even with the odd flying toilet here or there! I once spent a week in Bombay, and, as they say, seeing is believing. I took trains a few times, and was flabbergasted to see rows of grown men and women lined up along right along the railway line, taking a dump. And they weren't shy about it: they calmly looked at the passengers, who calmly looked back; I almost expected some of them to wave. I agree that Kenya is "advanced" in this regard; and you may have noticed that my first comment on this thread was "positive". I am, however, still afraid to visit certain places in Nairobi, for fear of a sandwich-bag full of shit landing unexpectedly and breaking open on my head. That said, Kenya still has a long way to go. Here is a summary of the costly Kenyan situation: www.wsp.org/sites/wsp.org/files/publications/WSP-ESI-Kenya-brochure.pdfThe estimated annual cost is $324 million, but the problem can be solved, once and for all, for much less. Indeed, I see no reason why all the unemployed youth cannot be put to useful work in that regard. For places like Kibera, I cannot understand why local leaders (including Raila) have been unable to lead the community into digging a few pit latrines; the land required would be small, and a few pieces of mabati (for the "walls") can't be that hard to find. The problem is not a "glamorous" one, but I think leaders throughout Kenya need to take a lead. Here is an inspiring photo:  |
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Post by b6k on Dec 14, 2013 19:01:33 GMT 3
Otishotish, no I disagree with you. A defecation is not a defecation. If well secured within a jwala, a flying toilet can be easily cleaned up by cleaning crews (assuming they exist). The communal long drop in the picture stolen by OO, as odd as it seems, also at least secures human waste in the confines of a pit latrine thereby thwarting the potential for epidemics from diseases such as cholera or typhoid. If you have ever had the unfortunate "honor" of visiting India, you may have noted that the locals there have a tradition of walking out of their homes at the crack of dawn and defecating, in full view of one another in open fields, by the road side, or on the railway tracks (I once saw this in Bombay & will never forget the sight or the smell)! That is the lowest of the low when it comes to relieving oneself as it leaves the general populace prone to contamination from the various... deposits strewn about all over the place. Cleaning these deposits up is a lot harder than cleaning up the flying toilets of Kibera. So in this respect at least, KE at 50 is light years ahead of India at 66, even with the odd flying toilet here or there! I once spent a week in Bombay, and, as they say, seeing is believing. I took trains a few times, and was flabbergasted to see rows of grown men and women lined up along right along the railway line, taking a dump. And they weren't shy about it: they calmly looked at the passengers, who calmly looked back; I almost expected some of them to wave. I agree that Kenya is "advanced" in this regard; and you may have noticed that my first comment on this thread was "positive". I am, however, still afraid to visit certain places in Nairobi, for fear of a sandwich-bag full of shit landing unexpectedly and breaking open on my head. That said, Kenya still has a long way to go. Here is a summary of the costly Kenyan situation: www.wsp.org/sites/wsp.org/files/publications/WSP-ESI-Kenya-brochure.pdfThe estimated annual cost is $324 million, but the problem can be solved, once and for all, for much less. Indeed, I see no reason why all the unemployed youth cannot be put to useful work in that regard. For places like Kibera, I cannot understand why local leaders (including Raila) have been unable to lead the community into digging a few pit latrines; the land required would be small, and a few pieces of mabati (for the "walls") can't be that hard to find. The problem is not a "glamorous" one, but I think leaders throughout Kenya need to take a lead. Here is an inspiring photo: , I was in Bombay barely 36 hours and I've never gone back. I think that was the closest thing I've seen, with my own eyes, to Dante's Inferno. There's a common misconception that the flying toilets are there because there are no pit latrines. The latrines are there but the levels of insecurity in the slums are so high that many dare not go outside of their homes at night lest they end up mugged, raped or killed. Easier to do your business in a jwala & chuck it out the window. Flying toilets are essentially a nightime phenomena so the odds of having one land on your head are rather slim, unless you happen to be out on the prowl.  Here is the remarkable story of Sanergy which collects the human waste from their loos at Mukuru slum and processes it in their facility to make organic compost/fertilizer. Coincidentally Sanergy's first toilet was launched on the World Toilet Day Nov 2012 as per your Nambale picture above. They were up to 100 when the article was written & are aiming to have 1,000 loos on the ground by 2015. So yes, there are people working on improving the situation but the (in)security factor should also not be overlooked. PS: Open defecation in Nambale? What did Chris Okemo do with all those monies he siphoned from the Isle of Man?!!! |
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Post by OtishOtish on Dec 14, 2013 20:22:50 GMT 3
bk6: Yes, I wasn't aware that there are a sufficient number of toilets in those areas. The figures I was looing at suggest that, generally, there aren't just enough toilets around; in fact part of the economic loss is due to the amount of "working time" that people spend looking from a place to take a dump. Still, I am relieved to know that I am wrong on Kibera; I retract my comment to the effect that people like Raila don't give a shit about shit there. If there are pit latrines, then the behavior is definitely odd. Why not tightly close the bag, so that there is no stench, keep it under the bed or wherever, and then take it to the pit latrine in the morning? There is a good model for that: I don't know if it's still the case, but there was a time when military tank battles were sufficiently long that soldiers had to stay in tanks for very lengthy periods ... getting shot while taking a dump was probably not worth the risk; so the soldiers did what they had to do. And what about the alternative of bucket toilets? www.google.ca/search?q=bucket+toilet&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=M42sUsLRDsWYrgGpm4GQBA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1138&bih=480Anyway ... yes, the Sanergy story is a good one. Generally, I am aware of things being done, but sometimes too small small to make a huge impact quickly enough. Consider, for example, the number of under-5 children who die annually from diseases that come out of poor sanitation. Another example of a good story from Kenya: www.communityledtotalsanitation.org/sites/communityledtotalsanitation.org/files/media/Shit_taboos_Kenya.pdfKenya aside, the problem is actually a huge global one: figures I saw sometime ago suggested that close to 3 billion people aren't shitting right, with very severe consequences. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Dec 15, 2013 0:06:36 GMT 3
This image was originally posted by Sister Cisgender Kathure-K in this thread jukwaa.proboards.com/thread/8440/beloved-kenya-defrauded-futures-options Shiiiiiiite aside fellas. Take a look at your fellow citizen. What does his plight tell us? Need we sit back and think deeply of the nature of the country we want in the next 50 years? Or is it an image of no consequence. An irritant stray fly dropped by chance on my great cup of soup!? I think a honest look at that photo reveals ourselves to ourselves. We are a neglectful society and there is a shit-storm out there. When we neglect to care about other human beings, why pretend others should care about us? such that what is the shock when we read today, that the whole family of the Kerugoya town-clerk has been cut down in a grissly wipe-out. Same mentality, who cares!? doing well @50 we are. ---Leave alone the doctors on strike leaving patienst to die. Think of the strike by moralists, leaving the nation without a developed conscience, morally dying. The soul of Kenya is like that picture above of the decaying body of a Kenyan, Slowly rotting live daily. Who cares! Shiiiiite! Give me a mercy killing, a euthanasia! for I would not bear myself looking like that rot, yet human. But beware of the vengeance of the les miserables. Perhaps the only thing they live for,is to get even, in evil. |
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Post by b6k on Dec 15, 2013 8:54:28 GMT 3
bk6: Yes, I wasn't aware that there are a sufficient number of toilets in those areas. The figures I was looing at suggest that, generally, there aren't just enough toilets around; in fact part of the economic loss is due to the amount of "working time" that people spend looking from a place to take a dump. Still, I am relieved to know that I am wrong on Kibera; I retract my comment to the effect that people like Raila don't give a shit about shit there. If there are pit latrines, then the behavior is definitely odd. Why not tightly close the bag, so that there is no stench, keep it under the bed or wherever, and then take it to the pit latrine in the morning? There is a good model for that: I don't know if it's still the case, but there was a time when military tank battles were sufficiently long that soldiers had to stay in tanks for very lengthy periods ... getting shot while taking a dump was probably not worth the risk; so the soldiers did what they had to do. And what about the alternative of bucket toilets? www.google.ca/search?q=bucket+toilet&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=M42sUsLRDsWYrgGpm4GQBA&ved=0CCwQsAQ&biw=1138&bih=480Anyway ... yes, the Sanergy story is a good one. Generally, I am aware of things being done, but sometimes too small small to make a huge impact quickly enough. Consider, for example, the number of under-5 children who die annually from diseases that come out of poor sanitation. Another example of a good story from Kenya: www.communityledtotalsanitation.org/sites/communityledtotalsanitation.org/files/media/Shit_taboos_Kenya.pdfKenya aside, the problem is actually a huge global one: figures I saw sometime ago suggested that close to 8 billion people aren't shitting right, with very severe consequences. , I wouldn't go as far as saying there's a "sufficient" number of latrines in the slums but they are there. Some are ran as businesses of the Ma-DVD (not Mudavadi but a character in a soap that appears on Citizen) kind so they may be either locked up at night or just too far to get to if one doesn't want to risk becoming a victim of crime. I also thought about other methods of storage of waste overnight or the use of chamber pots but I suppose that also revolves around a couple of things. (1) Contrary to global opinions about us, Africans are generally quite clean (the majority of us will take a shower, even if it means going to a river or a stream, at least once a day...compare that to your average Odiero in Minnesota!). Maybe the thought of having their stool stowed away under their bed (assuming there is one!) or on a counter somewhere is anathema to most who would want it as far away from them once it's out of their bodies, and (2) the element of cost to be able to purchase the right vessel in which to store the waste until it can be thrown away in the morning. The one thing you have to grant the folks is their ingenuity in quickly noting that a jwala was the solution to their waste problem. Only the method of disposal was wanting since once it became a widespread practice the jwalas with their potentially lethal "cargo" were not only an eyesore but a source of disease outbreaks. At the end of the day it comes right back to the government whether at the county or national level. They should support companies such as Sanergy that seem to offer viable solutions that are showing results. They should be granted tax exemptions and their products should be subsidized by governments to enable the people in the slums to afford to use them in their own homes. Also, the question of (in)security within the slums should be tackled once and for all. Pasaris once had security lighting installed in the slums on very tall masts (so rocks couldn't be thrown up at them to destroy them). Are they still up and running, I wonder. Once the area is lit up, it becomes safer to have police patrols. If I were Kidero I would find out how ZA managed to upgrade Soweto (a lot of it is actually quite nice) and do the same for the slums of Nairobi. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Dec 19, 2013 0:28:38 GMT 3
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