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Post by podp on Oct 19, 2015 11:17:08 GMT 3
B6K and Otish,~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ Mwalimumkuu, be it as it may, it remains up to the court to sift through the evidence and interrogate the witnesses it has before it. We cannot leave it up to the public gallery or worse yet a group of mercenary MPigs in Suswa to give WSR & Sang a verdict of innocence or guilt. Let the court process continue to its logical conclusion. Justice Osuji's recent warnings to Kenyans (like Moses Kuria) and the media specifically seem to point at possible action by the court against a few Kenyans in the near future. Whether some of the witnesses were procured will soon come to light. That said don't forget that West African warlord, Charles Taylor, was convicted on the strength of the testimony of ONE credible witness. WSR has nothing to fear if he believes in his heart of hearts that he is innocent of all charges and if, indeed, all witnesses were procured... we have been there many times in the past. 13 years ago Kanu is ready to receive those who defected to the Rainbow Coalition and other Opposition parties, Trade and Industry Minister, Nicholas Biwott, has said. Biwott, who is the party's Organising Secretary, asked the former Kanu members to rejoin the ruling party where they would be welcomed without conditions. allafrica.com/stories/200211120131.htmland over the weekend County Jubilee Alliance Party (JAP) officials have pleaded for unity between the founder membership and defectors in order to fight the strong CORD wave in the region. JAP co-ordinator Farid Swaleh and interim Chairman Ali Mwatsahu warned that they must unite if they are to beat CORD in the 2017 general election. standardmedia.co.ke/m1/story.php?articleID=2000180077&story_title=JAP-officials-uneasy-with-defectorsthose defectors do not make the over 1,000 dead and over 500,000 displaced in 2007/2008 become a mirage. they always be part of us |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Oct 19, 2015 15:21:16 GMT 3
B6K and Jakaswanga:No one is stopping ICC from doing what it should do. We are only asking questions, and very valid ones at that. The argument has been made from the get go, that these cases were framed by multiple players (including Waki himself, given his backers for the job and what interest they had in the Kibaki succession). None other than the witnesses themselves have come out and categorically stated that they were bought and coached to frame Ruto and others, and that none of the events they narrate in their 'evidence' took place, and even if they did, they ('witnesses') were never in attendance and could have not known who attended and what they said. The court in her own 'wisdom' has developed a narrative that the recantations are because the witnesses were bribed by the defense and their sympathizers. Which begs the question, if the court believes that their own witnesses, under a protection program can be compromised by defense, what would have made it hard for the same fellows to sale their souls to the highest bidder in the process of developing these cases? Instead the court has gone ahead and admitted recanted evidence. We now have a situation where both PNU operatives and part of the civil society that prepared the witnesses are coming out to say, indeed, these witnesses were bogus, and that the evidence they adduced to the court was cooked ( read here). At this point, one would expect a court of such standing to halt the case and investigate these claims. But no, the judge comes out and attempts to cajole and bully Kenyans into silence. He insists that, the court will only be guided by evidence before it. Which evidence? We ask. The truth is, ICC is really hurting itself. Even though we may argue that, one can be incarcerated over evidence by only one credible witness, I don't see any such witness in this case, show me one and I show a liar. ICC must do itself and Kenyans a favor; drop these cases pronto and open investigations into its own operations and possibilities of its participation in miscarriage of justice. Otherwise this intransigence is not helpful to them, it is not helpful to Kenya and the world that funds this court. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~
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Post by podp on Oct 19, 2015 16:38:44 GMT 3
B6K and Jakaswanga:No one is stopping ICC from doing what it should do. We are only asking questions, and very valid ones at that. The argument has been made from the get go, that these cases were framed by multiple players (including Waki himself, given his backers for the job and what interest they had in the Kibaki succession). None other than the witnesses themselves have come out and categorically stated that they were bought and coached to frame Ruto and others, and that none of the events they narrate in their 'evidence' took place, and even if they did, they ('witnesses') were never in attendance and could have not known who attended and what they said. The court in her own 'wisdom' has developed a narrative that the recantations are because the witnesses were bribed by the defense and their sympathizers. Which begs the question, if the court believes that their own witnesses, under a protection program can be compromised by defense, what would have made it hard for the same fellows to sale their souls to the highest bidder in the process of developing these cases? Instead the court has gone ahead and admitted recanted evidence. We now have a situation where both PNU operatives and part of the civil society that prepared the witnesses are coming out to say, indeed, these witnesses were bogus, and that the evidence they adduced to the court was cooked ( read here). At this point, one would expect a court of such standing to halt the case and investigate these claims. But no, the judge comes out and attempts to cajole and bully Kenyans into silence. He insists that, the court will only be guided by evidence before it. Which evidence? We ask. The truth is, ICC is really hurting itself. Even though we may argue that, one can be incarcerated over evidence by only one credible witness, I don't see any such witness in this case, show me one and I show a liar. ICC must do itself and Kenyans a favor; drop these cases pronto and open investigations into its own operations and possibilities of its participation in miscarriage of justice. Otherwise this intransigence is not helpful to them, it is not helpful to Kenya and the world that funds this court. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ one side in this article is good points for you and the one I quote is good for me. Bensouda notes that even if a country has accepted the jurisdiction of the ICC, the court doesn’t have to open investigations there if “credible national investigations or prosecutions” are already taking place. Bensouda suggests this is not the case in some African contexts, despite the scale of the war crimes at stake. “It could be argued that the situations under investigation or prosecution in Africa are distinguished by the gravity of the crimes perpetrated there—for example, 2.5 million victims in Darfur, 2 million in the DRC, and 1.3 million in Uganda—and an inability or unwillingness on the part of the State concerned to properly investigate and prosecute those cases,” Bensouda wrote. www.dailymaverick.co.za/article/2015-06-19-analysis-is-the-international-criminal-court-biased-against-africa/#.ViVA2LqkRFIwe spend our best time and energy on small time bribe takers like this kshs 50 a matatu cops www.facebook.com/NTVKenya/videos/459634445768/while the bigger thieves we only mention in passing 'government for planning to spend Sh37,500 on each bar soap' www.nation.co.ke/news/State-to-spend-Sh6000-on-pack-of-pads/-/1056/2920022/-/smkf9l/-/index.htmlso it is more juicy to critic ICC and not our beloved Jubilants for running a government that does not value the over 1,000 dead and hence carry our national investigations and/or prosecutions over their murderers. the over 500,000 who were displaced again no national investigations and/or prosecutions over their tormentors. and we say we have reconciled, forgiven our murderers, rapists, looters and other wrong doers but let us focus on ICC! burying our heads in sand like the ostrich or chasing the rat (read ICC) from our burning house instead of fire fighting (who killed our own and caused our own to be displaced and become IDPs) |
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 19, 2015 16:55:49 GMT 3
I've skipped much of what you have written because I know the folly of trying to reason with True Believers. But I'd like to enlighten you on a couple of points: At this point, one would expect a court of such standing to halt the case and investigate these claims. A functioning court will not stop a case because some fellow on a mission has made some colourful statements in the media. Even the funny Kenyan courts would not do that. That would be the evidence that has been presented in court. That's how courts normally work. One side presents its evidence, the other side presents its countering evidence, and the judges look at all. If Kuria, or anyone else, has evidence that the witnesses in the ICC cases delivered manufactured evidence, then what they should do is provide the proof to the OTP, or, better yet, to Ruto's lawyers so that they can quickly destroy the case. But right now all we have are wild claims in the media, without anything to support them, and it is a bizarre joke that people should go around asking for things that even the well-paid and competent Defense lawyers are not asking for. Ati stop the case! P.S. Kuria has recently been in the news, encouraging youth to take up pangas and do all sorts of things. His current noise aside, the ICC should keep a sharp eye on him. He is the kind of person they might be chasing somewhere down the road. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Oct 19, 2015 18:23:06 GMT 3
so it is more juicy to critic ICC and not our beloved Jubilants for running a government that does not value the over 1,000 dead and hence carry our national investigations and/or prosecutions over their murderers. the over 500,000 who were displaced again no national investigations and/or prosecutions over their tormentors. and we say we have reconciled, forgiven our murderers, rapists, looters and other wrong doers but let us focus on ICC! That's a whole lot of crimes and criminals. Back in 2011, the DPP said that it had 4000+ open files and would begin prosecuting people by Sep 2011. (That was when they were trying to convince the ICC that the matter could be dealt with in Kenya.) A couple of years later, it was a different story: none of the 4000+ files had yielded any evidence on which prosecution could proceed. Case closed. And the victims? As far as the country is concerned, there are now only two---or is it 1.5?---and national prayers, national political activity, international action are ongoing to save ONE. Even with the country running out of money, that ONE is all the news. Still, there is an ongoing story from elsewhere. This is from a recent report by somebody the court calls "Common Legal Representative for Victims" and who regularly files reports on what must be the "small" victims (not worthy of all the manic activity): (These reports are filed at the court every 3 months, but don't expect the Kenyan media to ever tell you anything about them. And especially not when there are prayers and fixing to be discussed.) |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Oct 23, 2015 0:20:35 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Oct 25, 2015 15:28:55 GMT 3
He still fails to answer who stitched Ruto up... |
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