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Post by Onyango Oloo on Aug 27, 2005 6:57:43 GMT 3
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Post by roughrider on Aug 27, 2005 9:34:17 GMT 3
“Islamization, is a process that starts with Kadhi's Courts arbitrating on matters of personal law, next comes the extension of jurisdiction to cover all civil matters, and eventually ends with full Sharia.”
This is a chilling statement.
Christians have a right to oppose the draft constitution on account of the entrenchment of Kadhis courts in a document that pretends to uphold secularism and the separation between church and state. And their arguments – in many instances - are compelling.
There shall be no state religion in Kenya
All religions shall be treated equally.
In fact, Christians do not mind the kadhis courts as presently constituted; but putting them in the constitution goes a bit too far.
This essay is interesting, but it must be read against a background. I have followed your continued derogatory attacks on Christianity and Christians in general with some interest. Sample this derisive comment (which exemplifies a general trend) written in language that seeks to cheapen and ridicule beliefs that many Kenyans hold dear:
It is SHAMEFUL and DESPICABLE that religious leaders who claim to follow a humble thirty something bachelor who used to hang out with hookers, adulterers, sinners and outcasts are today using the Bible to launch a 21st Century Conceived in America, Born in Kenya Islamophobic CRUSADE that will only GUARANTEE greater national insecurity and may even plunge the country into a full-scale bloodbath.
Anyone with some basic skills in analytical literature will immediately expose the writer as at best one with deeply negative feelings against Christian. Also the attempt to predict bloodbath should be dissmissed as an ill-concieved scare tactics that will only stiffle debate. We need to leave room for negotiation and agreement. There are no bloody fights in the offing over this.
Further, warpped in this statement is a thinly veiled insult: that Kenyan Christians are puppets of Americans; that they cannot think for themselves and arrive at their own conclusions on major theological issues; that they should listen to a self confessed atheist lecture them on matters of doctrine.
Perhaps even more laughable is the assertion that Njeru Githae should cause the arrest and arraignment of these Christians. On what charges, prithee? That they will vote NO on account of their opposition to the entrenchment of Kadhis courts in the constitution? What happened to freedom of expression and the right to hold opinions on the constitution – to agree and to disagree?
Why do we forget that some of these same churches have emphatically opposed gay marriages and abortion even when their so called mother churches in the US support these?
If it is ties to big and powerful American churches that are causing jitters, then how come the ties of Mosques to big and powerful Middle Eastern mosques are ignored?
Let us also not forget that the churches oppose this draft on other counts too: the possibility of abortion, loopholes allowing gay marriages, a fudged executive and faked devolution that flies in the face of the people’s wishes…
Like I’ve always maintained, the best way to deal with the position of these churches, as indeed every other contention, is NOT to launch highly personalized tirades against them but to offer sober, logical arguments on why their position is wrong and why they ought to reconsider. Let us avoid inflammatory and irresponsible statements.
Until then, these amount to nothing but hoarse shouts.
Without prejudice
roughrider
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Post by abd ulmote on Aug 27, 2005 13:19:45 GMT 3
“Islamization, is a process that starts with Kadhi's Courts arbitrating on matters of personal law, next comes the extension of jurisdiction to cover all civil matters, and eventually ends with full Sharia.”This is a chilling statement. Christians have a right to oppose the draft constitution on account of the entrenchment of Kadhis courts in a document that pretends to uphold secularism and the separation between church and state. And their arguments – in many instances - are compelling. Without prejudice roughrider Roughriderh??? I am rather dissappointed by this line of your thinking. Just a couple of simple questions for a person of your knowledge; What did it take to have the Kadhi's Court enshrined in the Constitution? What processes wil it take to move the same to include the coverage of 'all civic matters'? What processess can ever satisfy the next move towards "full Sharia"?? Are your fears at all trully objective and rational if I may ask? |
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Aug 27, 2005 13:48:56 GMT 3
roughrider:
fortunately i am here. the first thing you should do is to refer to my actual writings and sentiments about christians and christianity- as opposed to your distortions of the same.
let me recap:
i know enough about christianity in general and kenyan christians in particular to know that the true christians do not hate, nor have they ever been threatened by muslims in general and kenyan muslims in particular. i used to be a very staunch christian for more than half of my life. even today, i keep in touch with a whole bunch of them- starting with my born again christian fiancee who was born and raised and still lives in the very muslim town of mombasa. before i wrote this piece i consulted with her- as i did another of one of my very best friends who also happens to be a practising kenyan muslim- who grew up in a predominantly christian part of kenya where she never saw, heard or experienced any of the intolerance which is a NEWLY FANGLED thing.
all over the world we have a few bigots who pretend to speak for the great religions.
are osama bin laden's twisted notions representative of mainstream islam? of course not.
does pat robertson speak for christians when he calls for the assassination of hugo chavez? does jerry falwell speak for christians when he trashes islam? of course not. do the hindu nationalists speak for hinduism when they distort the tenets of their faith to preach communal and sectarian hatred? the answer is a no brainer. do the zionist racist settlers speak for mainstream judaism when they shoot innocent palestinians- the answer, my friend, is blowing in the wind.
is the following statement actually true:
“Islamization, is a process that starts with Kadhi's Courts arbitrating on matters of personal law, next comes the extension of jurisdiction to cover all civil matters, and eventually ends with full Sharia.”
that is a load of bs. i grew up in mombasa, which is predominantly a muslim town. there was never any attempt by any muslim- individual or institutional to try and impose any aspect of islam on me.
on the other hand, one can argue that the reverse is true- muslims in kenya live in a defacto christian state. how many national holidays specifically observe muslim holy days? how many observe christian holy days? is the president of kenya a muslim? is the vicepresident a hindu? is the minister of health a buddhist? you know the answer to those questions. jomo kenyatta was the only head of state who truly respected the diversity of religious callings in kenya. contrast that with daniel arap moi's high profile showy christianity or with the blatant catholic biases of the current kenyan president, his vp and his first lady.
roughrider you see you are in no position to preach to me about christianity- a faith that i know just as well, if not better than you. you also can tell me nothing new about kenyan christians- you are talking about my fiancee, my family, my neighbours, my friends, my political associates.
i write with so much outrage because i am aware that some far right ideologues are attempting to hijack christianity in kenya from its long standing tolerant and accomodating traditions in kenya to this foreign fueled artificial war on islam. kenyan christians have never fought islam. there have been thriving muslim communities in kendu bay, mumias, nyeri and all over the kenyan interior for over one hundred years. not too many people acknowledge that barrack obama's father, step mother and grandfather were all practising muslims-from alego, siaya. for the longest period, the person who slaughtered the cow every day at the dudi market in my home squared was this kindly muslim luhyia mzee from muhaka who made sure it was halal- in a community where 99% of the residents were christians.
it is dastardly how a simple democratic demand to recognize the religious and cultural rights of kenyan minorities is being distorted and politicized by islamophobes who are in fact pursuing a more ominous ideological agenda predicated on the spurious huffingtonian clash of civilzations hypothesis. the only people in the world that i can think of who will benefit if christians and muslims clash in kenya is george w bush and osama bin laden- and i doubt if any serious christian or any serious muslim thinks that either of the two are authorities on either christianity or islam.
i am serious about calling for the arrest of all the islamophobic demagogues who use the garb of christianity to spew the gab of hate and religious intolerance in kenya. these are NOT christians because true christians are taught to love rather than hate; true christians love their neighbours, they do not malign and distort their neighbours' religious and cultural beliefs.
many of the vile attacks on islam in that power point presentation are predicated on falsehoods by islamophobes about islam. i lived in mombasa for a big chunk of my life- never saw any attempt at a jihad. people talk as if muslims did not die during the 1998 nairobi bombings; tell you what- guess what was the faith of the traditional dancers who were the ONLY casualties of the kikambala bombings- they were muslims! muslims are just as adamantly opposed to terrorism as all the other innocent victims of terror! do you feel personally responsible as a christian for the oklahoma city bombing because timothy mcveigh identified himself as a christian? do you endorse the racist cross burnings by the kkk? do you condone the crime of apartheid that was imposed by xenophobes who based their hatred on a twisted application of biblical tenets? those are all rhetorical questions.
there are is a long tradition of christian based social justice activism and political advocacy in kenya that stretches back all the way back from yohanna owalo, elijah masinde and bildad kaggia to alexander muge, father gabriel dolan and timothy njoya- many of these christians have been anti-imperialist in one form or another- so please do not lump all kenyan christians in the same boat. there are kenyan christians who believe in reproductive choice- not all of them are potential operation rescue recruits.
i am repeating my warning:
there is a very dangerous trend happening in kenya right now, where some cynical right wing ideologues are taking advantage of the fact that there are millions of kenyans who embrace the christian faith to recruit peace loving, democracy seeking kenyan christians into a false war on islam and against kenyan muslims.
islam is NOT the enemy of kenyan christians.
the true enemies of kenyan christians are also the enemies of kenyan muslims- poverty, underdevelopment, repression, hiv/aids, sexism, ignorance and lack of democratic institutions. when kenyans voted in kibaki and narc in 2002 they were united across religious and sectarian lines- kibaki got a ringing endorsement from the coast province which is predominantly muslim. very few of those muslims would have expected the same government to tolerate the kind of insane bile that people like you roughrider are openly countenancing.
please desist from confusing the narrow minded islamophobc rantings by the demagagues i denounce with the mainstream sentiments of millions of christians in kenya- and by the way roughrider, i do not need a password from you to gauge those sentiments- like i said you are talking about my born again fiancee, my born again sisters, aunties, uncles, cousins, former school mates and relatives.
i do not need to sit through a power point presentation riddled with lies about islam to learn about the thousands of living and breathing kenyan muslims i have known throughout my life.
the vile agenda of the far right so called "christian" demagogues will be exposed- together with it their abject ignorance of both christianity and islam. watch this space. i just got started buddy. i hope you can and will stick around when we debate what true christian and muslim beliefs are. please do not run away.
onyango oloo
montreal
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Post by aeichener on Aug 27, 2005 14:40:29 GMT 3
If Kenyan "organized Christians" oppose something today, there is a high chance that it is a good and noble cause.
Alexander
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Aug 27, 2005 14:55:23 GMT 3
If Kenyan "organized Christians" oppose something today, there is a high chance that it is a good and noble cause. Alexander Alex: I am still trying to figure out whether you posted the above with an impish grin or a fearsom scowl, so i will hold my fire until I hear more robust ricochetin rat atat tat from your end... oo mtl |
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Aug 27, 2005 15:28:57 GMT 3
You can download the Power Point file by going to: groups.yahoo.com/group/Siasa-Kenya/files/I am not sure if you have to register to access the files- and I am the moderator of that site.. Go figure.... oo mtl |
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Post by roughrider on Aug 27, 2005 15:41:04 GMT 3
Abdul,
Let me clarify that the statement you have quoted above is not mine. It is in fact sourced from an Islamic website that is quoted in Oloo’s essay (the slides) and attributed to one Dr Usman Muhammad Bugaje, Secretary-General of the Islam in Africa Organization.
It is therefore not in my place to defend or try to explain it…However, I found and still find it chilling. It is not hard to see why Christians would oppose Kadhis courts on the basis of that statement alone. But there is more.
In fact upon further research I have found the same references in a Christian churches' briefing on the matter of Kadhis court and I reproduce the relevant section verbatim:
Quote:
Why this concern about Kadhi Courts?
Whereas for the sake of peace we have been cautious about certain information, our research reveals that there is a hidden agenda behind these courts.
In November 1989, an Islamic movement known as Islam in Africa Organization was formed in Abuja Nigeria. At this meeting they resolved to turn Africa into the first Islamic continent.
According to Mr Khurram Murad, the late head of the Islamic Foundation, the Islamic movement is committed to "an organized struggle to change the existing society into an Islamic society based on the Qur'an and the Sunna, and make Islam, which is a code for entire life, supreme and dominant, especially in the socio-political spheres."
Dr Usman Muhammad Bugaje, Secretary-General of the Islam in Africa Organization stated that “Islamization, is a process that starts with Kadhi's Courts arbitrating on matters of personal law, next comes the extension of jurisdiction to cover all civil matters, and eventually ends with full Sharia.”
This information is readily available on their website!
End of quote.
Having said that, and having read Oloo’s response below – which I intend to deal with in a separate response – I can only surmise that the Islamic Organization in Africa is probably one of the fundamentalist ones that we should treat with contempt. I would like to believe that this is not representative of mainstream Islamic thought.
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Post by aeichener on Aug 27, 2005 15:43:58 GMT 3
Dear Onyango Oloo:
Actually, the rat-tat-tat is what I have planned in Real Life for this afternoon on the range, so I'll have to hold my response until later :-). For if one really were to "investigate, arrest, prosecute and imprison after a fair and open trial these DERANGED RELIGIOUS CHRISTIAN BIGOTS" (as OO pleaded in his digital essay), then more Kenyans would be interned than even during the worst times of manjeneti - although it would now be done which much more right, as I admit.
Seriously however, I have fully agreed with your previous posting. And I intend to quote from it on fitting occasions, if you allow - many paragraphs were so excellently worded.
PS:
The files section in the Siasa Kenya group cannot even be accessed by members, as I have just checked, but only by the moderator. Go figure... ;D
Alexander
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Post by aeichener on Aug 27, 2005 16:19:02 GMT 3
PPS: I have browsed through the wbsite of Usman Muhammad Bugaje, and I feel he is one sharp cookie  . OO might even like him (see e.g. there his intelligent, well-written article "NO MORE HEROES, ONLY BULLIES - Some Tentative Thoughts"). Alexander |
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Post by roughrider on Aug 27, 2005 16:54:24 GMT 3
Onyango Oloo
As a pointer to the seriousness with which I take this matter I have read your response, twice. And no, i will not run away.
There are points on which we agree and might as well dispense with immediately.
We both respect and believe in freedom of religion and have interacted with Muslims and Christians, some of whom are our relatives and friends. Ordinary Muslims and Christians alike are peace loving (I take your word for it, although your writing is particularly harsh and if put on the spot; you might find it particularly strenuous proving it)
We – at least on paper - both believe in democratic ideals.
I disagree with you on three points:
1. That there is a far right agenda being pushed by American Evangelicals. You have never offered any proof for this. Surely a lie when oft repeated begins to assume a ring of truth.
I listen regularly to Family TV – which you should know is a good barometer for what Kenyan televangelists are talking about. There is clearly no jerry fallwel or pat robertson in Kenya. All they preach about is peace, unity, love, salvation and related matters.
No one has offered even an iota of evidence that they are being funded to push some insidious socio-political agenda. NOBODY
So from which figment of your imagination did such a statement come from?
i write with so much outrage because i am aware that some far right ideologues are attempting to hijack christianity in kenya from its long standing tolerant and accomodating traditions in kenya to this foreign fueled artificial war on islam.
Who or what made you aware of the far right ideologues are attempting to hijack christianity in Kenya? and if you have such compelling evidence, how come you have not – as a patriotic citizen furnished the police and AG with the same, so that action is taken?
Disagreeing with the Kadhis court in the constitution does not and cannot amount to intolerance. If merely being evangelical is so vexing, then let me remind you that Christianity has come a long way over the years; it is not a static religion. There was a time when both Islam and Christianity could be regarded as intolerant.
There is no war on Islam. Those who will say no to the new constitution will not be saying no to Islam. They will be saying no to an attempt to inflame religious conflict by raising one on to a pedestal. Many enlightened Muslims support this position. It is not inconsistent with being a Muslim or any teachings of Islam. One does not and should not need any constitutional provisions to guide religious practice in a multi-religious country – perhaps save for asserting the freedom to do so and invoking the caveat that religious practices must not be repugnant to justice and morality.
2. Please do not be cheeky; nobody is denying Muslims any of their religious rights. All that is being said is that these rights must not be promoted in a manner that threatens the rights of others or gives undue and constitutional advantage at the expense of others. Or in a way that is patently unfair or disadvantageous to other religions. Hindus are fewer than Muslims, they are a minority, and should we offer them similar constitutional guarantees? And who else? Lets not hide under the guise of ‘minority rights’, the real bone of contention that we must deal with squarely is 2 – pronged:
1. Muslims are exempted from the application of the Bill of Rights on matters of equality
2. Muslims have been provided with a parallel judicial system that is enshrined in the constitution
From the foregoing it is easy to see why this statement is baseless:
it is dastardly how a simple democratic demand to recognize the religious and cultural rights of kenyan minorities is being distorted and politicized by islamophobes who are in fact pursuing a more ominous ideological agenda predicated on the spurious huffingtonian clash of civilzations hypothesis.
3. What is your real persuasion? I would like to use the next few sentences to offer a theory of why some Kenyans see a rightwing fundamentalist Christian agenda which is labeled 'operation rescue'. Christianity is the bane of Marxism. It is incompatible with teachings and philosophy of Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin. In fact during the cold war, communist leaning countries were engaged in a war of attrition against Christianity. Eventually Christians led by the Catholic Church played an instrumental role in the demise of communism. It is therefore not surprising that (ideological) remnants of that era would have a ‘selective perception’ where Christendom is regularly seen as the invisible hand behind a lot of things. In truth the phobia we are accosted with today is that of Christianity.
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Post by roughrider on Aug 27, 2005 17:02:53 GMT 3
The truth that makes men free is for the most part the truth which men prefer not to hear.
Herbert Agar
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Aug 27, 2005 18:13:33 GMT 3
. I disagree with you on three points: 1. That there is a far right agenda being pushed by American Evangelicals. You have never offered any proof for this. Surely a lie when oft repeated begins to assume a ring of truth. I listen regularly to Family TV – which you should know is a good barometer for what Kenyan televangelists are talking about. There is clearly no jerry fallwel or pat robertson in Kenya. All they preach about is peace, unity, love, salvation and related matters. No one has offered even an iota of evidence that they are being funded to push some insidious socio-political agenda. NOBODY So from which figment of your imagination did such a statement come from? i write with so much outrage because i am aware that some far right ideologues are attempting to hijack christianity in kenya from its long standing tolerant and accomodating traditions in kenya to this foreign fueled artificial war on islam.Who or what made you aware of the far right ideologues are attempting to hijack christianity in Kenya? and if you have such compelling evidence, how come you have not – as a patriotic citizen furnished the police and AG with the same, so that action is taken? Disagreeing with the Kadhis court in the constitution does not and cannot amount to intolerance. If merely being evangelical is so vexing, then let me remind you that Christianity has come a long way over the years; it is not a static religion. There was a time when both Islam and Christianity could be regarded as intolerant. There is no war on Islam. Those who will say no to the new constitution will not be saying no to Islam. They will be saying no to an attempt to inflame religious conflict by raising one on to a pedestal. Many enlightened Muslims support this position. It is not inconsistent with being a Muslim or any teachings of Islam. One does not and should not need any constitutional provisions to guide religious practice in a multi-religious country – perhaps save for asserting the freedom to do so and invoking the caveat that religious practices must not be repugnant to justice and morality. 2. Please do not be cheeky; nobody is denying Muslims any of their religious rights. All that is being said is that these rights must not be promoted in a manner that threatens the rights of others or gives undue and constitutional advantage at the expense of others. Or in a way that is patently unfair or disadvantageous to other religions. Hindus are fewer than Muslims, they are a minority, and should we offer them similar constitutional guarantees? And who else? Lets not hide under the guise of ‘minority rights’, the real bone of contention that we must deal with squarely is 2 – pronged: 1. Muslims are exempted from the application of the Bill of Rights on matters of equality 2. Muslims have been provided with a parallel judicial system that is enshrined in the constitution From the foregoing it is easy to see why this statement is baseless: it is dastardly how a simple democratic demand to recognize the religious and cultural rights of kenyan minorities is being distorted and politicized by islamophobes who are in fact pursuing a more ominous ideological agenda predicated on the spurious huffingtonian clash of civilzations hypothesis. 3. What is your real persuasion? I would like to use the next few sentences to offer a theory of why some Kenyans see a rightwing fundamentalist Christian agenda which is labeled 'operation rescue'. Christianity is the bane of Marxism. It is incompatible with teachings and philosophy of Karl Marx and Vladimir Lenin. In fact during the cold war, communist leaning countries were engaged in a war of attrition against Christianity. Eventually Christians led by the Catholic Church played an instrumental role in the demise of communism. It is therefore not surprising that (ideological) remnants of that era would have a ‘selective perception’ where Christendom is regularly seen as the invisible hand behind a lot of things. In truth the phobia we are accosted with today is that of Christianity. roughrider: you are probably suffering from a mild form of reagan and charlton heston' s disease. i have in the past provided TONS of links showing the correlation of fundamentalist christians to far right causes. let me recycle a few: www.clarkschpiell.com/home/kenyatv.shtmlwww.pfaw.org/pfaw/general/default.aspx?oid=19405www.commondreams.org/views02/0815-05.htmen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efra%C3%ADn_R%C3%ADos_Monttwww.zonalatina.com/Zldata364.htmwww.msmagazine.com/sept03/sizemore.aspwww.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L24317869.htmwww.arc.org/C_Lines/CLArchive/story5_1_02.htmlwww.theturkishtimes.com/archive/02/10_15/f_falwell.htmlarchives.cnn.com/2002/ALLPOLITICS/02/24/robertson.islam/those should suffice for now... i will NOT be dragged into any wars about religion. christianity does not pose a threat to me or any marxist for that matter. did you know for instance in denmark only 3% of the population go to church.... oo mtl |
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Aug 28, 2005 14:05:27 GMT 3
POST SCRIPT
I received the following email as a much forwarded FW forward on Saturday(August 27, 2005) afternoon:
-----Original Message-----
From: Raphael (Last Name Withheld)
Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 3:15 AM
To:Recipient list Suppressed
Subject: REFERUNDUM
Yesu atukuzwe.
I trust all are responsible citizens. If for any reason you've never voted in the past, this time round do not allow every other Tom and Harry to decide for you. I trust I will get a soft copy of the constitution later today. I will forward to you. Meanwhile look at the highlights attached below.
Baraka
Raphael
Hallo. What you are about to read is the TRUTH, the WHOLE TRUTH and nothing but the TRUTH. That is what HOPE FM advocates for. THE TRUTH. The new draft constitution bill is out and WE KNOW THAT YOU HAVE READ IT. If not, please do. There will be an exam, so be well read. We are not in anyway creators of enmity between religions. But we love it when you are equipped with knowledge. “My people perish from____________”, jaza pengo (fill in the blank). Alright, once you are done reading the document address all your questions to the contacts below. It is time to READ and UNDERSTAND.
Ps….should this email be making it’s way into your box without your express permission, kindly inform us. We apologise should this happen and we will take you off the list.
Baraka
As always
Tina Nzuki
The real Kenyan
The Referendum
What is a Referendum?
Referring back to the people a document for their opinion. In this case the Draft constitution.
What is expected of you?
To vote Yes or No to the whole document. It will not be on an article-by-article basis.
Non Muslims how does the document affect you?
Qualification of Bill of Rights on the basis of Religion, which means that eventually other fundamental rights, will be effected e.g.:
1.Freedom of worship-Islam is an intolerant religion and aims at total domination and extermination of non-Muslims
2.Freedom of expression: Islam is intolerant of expression witness the Fuatwas pronounced on writers such as Salman Rushidie.
3.Freedom of Assembly &Association: Will not allow non-Muslims equal rights and will severely restrict their rights.
4.Freedom of conscience-including freedom of thought and religion, to change religion or belief, to either alone or in community with others and both in public and private manifest& propagate his religion or belief in worship, teaching, practice & observance. The following are just a few examples of the breach of this fundamental right being practiced now even before this special exemption becomes law:
Koran does not allow change of religion. This is apostasy punishable by death. Muslims scurrilously twisting scripture to destabilize the weak and doubting Christian believers whilst demanding that non-Muslims must not handle or speak about the Koran.
Many incidents of Muslims burning churches on pretext that the preachers preached against them .
REMEMBER their protest against the prayer of Bishop Kihara on 9/8/01 though the prayer was his right of conscience.
DID you know that ‘Keshas’ have now been banned in Nairobi? This was carried by the papers on Tuesday 19th. Of July 2005.The ban has been issued by the Provincial Police Officer Nairobi on the grounds of insecurity.
5.Protection from inhuman and degrading treatment and from slavery; well-known fact that Muslims were slave traders and that in their culture and religion it is acceptable. Witness slavery in Sudan being practiced by Muslims against the blacks.
6.Provision of Education (Islamic Curricular)
7.Equal Treatment before the Law –they shall be exempt (a classic case of all animals are equal but some are more equal than others.)
8.Protection of Life; Muslims have already taken away innocent lives in their bombing of Nairobi Norfolk hotel and the USA embassy on 7/8/98,the bombing of paradise hotel, the blowing up of two policemen in Mombasa. REMEMBER it is legitimate to kill a non Muslim (and in Darfur a Black Muslim)
9.Women have been asked to vote in large numbers in view of the affirmative action. However this exemption of Muslims from equality will mean that women will be subjugated. Literally this will be the last time they vote!
Kadhi’s Courts - Did you know?
(i)Are not provided for in Koran.
(ii)They are found in 5 countries only in the world; Uganda, Nigeria, Kenya, Jordan and Pakistan.
(iii)The most populous Moslem country Indonesia does not have these courts (98% Muslim).
(iv)Ghana has Kadhi’s courts outside the Constitution.
(v)Under the British the Kadhis not paid by the government maintained by their own co-religionists.
(vi)At independence 10 points agreed to between British/Zanzibar/Kenya about coastal strip. Only one finds it’s way into Constitution the Kadhi’s courts.
(vii)No definition made of what are personal laws in respect to Muslims.
(viii)At independence Kadhi’s courts confined to “so called ten mile strip” which is an anomaly as Kenya is now a sovereign Republic. No remnant of Sultan’s subjects.
(ix)Kadhi’s courts Act passed in 1967 expands jurisdiction of Kadhi’s to the rest of Kenya. Which was unconstitutional because Constitution did not allow this.
(x)In 1969 Constitution changed to allow Kadhi’s courts throughout Kenya. The Amending Act “sneaked” in this change calling it a change of form not substance.
Kilifi document expands this by giving
(i)Equal standing of all laws to the Constitution and includes personal laws
(ii)Only personal law mentioned is Islamic personal law, which is administered by Kadhi’s courts in effect, making their decision equal to the Constitution.
TRANSITIONAL PROVISIONS
Are totally inadequate and do not provide for a smooth transition
In effect the proclamation of the new Constitution on 12/12/05 will create a vacuum, as the present constitution will stand repealed; yet curiously the existing laws shall continue with modifications and adaptations and qualifications being made by an undisclosed authority.
Putting it simply the effect is similar to the millennium Bug there will be a crash before new laws are enacted 1-5 years down the road. Presumably the president having begun by proclaiming the Constitution shall continue ruling by proclamations to fill in the void.
This will be necessary, as the provincial administration will be dissolved on 12/12/02 thus creating a vacuum in security, which will take time to fill.
The Local councillors will be in a precarious situation before elections are held.
The other issue is that the president holds office for five years from the date of assumption of office. The date of assumption of office under the new constitution is not stated; instead it says that the president shall continue in office until the first elections are held under the new constituion. The necessary implication is that the president begins his term of office from 13/12/2005 to 12/12/2010!
As for the MP’s they are to continue in office for the unexpired term presumably to 2007 yet the wording of the article is such that the M.P.’s can argue that their unexpired term starts running from 13/12/2005 to 12/12/2010!Kenyans cherished dream of revenging on their MP’s will be cruelly vanquished.
In the judiciary shall be upon a constituting of a Judicial Service Commission embark on a full scale house cleaning which will effectively paralyse delivery of services. Finally when the services resume the laws shall be different .In effect all cases pending shall end up being an academic exercise.
Case in court
Preliminary objections raised by CKRC on 3 points:
1.Jurisdiction – High Court cannot remove a section of the Constitution
2.Lack of cause of Action – there is no substance in our complaint
3.Justifiability – the court cannot examine the document until it is passed as law.
Church’s Response
(i)S.66. in the current Constitution is unconstitutional ,offends the separation of church and state and also democratic principle,
(ii)The inclusion of Kadhi’s court discriminatory treatment of different faiths
a.Kadhi’s public officers yet Constitution prohibits the appointment of officers purely on the basis of creed.
(iii)The 1969 “Constitutional” amendment tries to cure the unconstitutional of the 1967 Kadhi’s Courts Act.
(iv)1982, 1986 Kadhi’s increased to 8 currently they are 16. Bomas increases them to 40.
(v)Kadhis courts were to determine questions of Muslim law relating to personal status, marriage, divorce or inheritance in proceedings in which all the parties profess the Muslim religion.
(vi)1977? Succession law passed applicable to all Kenyans. Muslims rose up in arms and had themselves excluded from its operation.
(vii)Constitution Review begins CKRC gives questionnaires (biased) on Kadhi’s courts.
(viii)Response questionnaires Katiba very poor and yet CKRC produces document giving great powers to Kadhi’s courts.
(ix)2004 Bomas draft – scales down Kadhi’s courts but does not touch exemption from bill of rights; irrespective of the fact that there is separation of state and religion and no religion shall be treated superior to another and the forbidding of employment on basis of faith (b) Public officers paid by tax payers to render service yet can only render Muslims who are only 6% of the population of Kenya – Even if courts are currently short staffed Kadhi’s cannot step in to help move cases.
(c) Kadhi’s as public officers propagate public policy which means Government’s policy is to Islamise Kenya.
(x)The document is comprehensive, clear and legal. Does not require to be passed into law for the court to look into it. It is already unconstitutional.
(xi)Ringera’s ruling has looked into this document and stated that parliament cannot bring in a completely new Constitution; it can only amend the existing one.
STATUS OF CASE
On 19 & 20.7.05 – Court adjourned case on basis that one judge sitting in a Criminal Appeal. The Judge is expected to be available in November. Case is expected to continue on 14, 15 and 16th of November. The referendum is on 22/11/05.
These are only pre-elminiary steps the case itself is yet to begin.
Note the referendum is in the following week.
KENYANS MUST GIRD UP THEIR LOINS TO:
Watch - Acquaint yourself with the Bomas draft.
Prepare to vote ‘NO’ because the voting is on the whole document.
REMEMBER that even though the Referendum is not provided for in the constitution you still must vote because:
a)You are being asked to overthrow the constitutionally elected Government with your vote.
b)The propagators of the constitution are counting on your apathy and ignorance to push through their agenda
REMEMBER the Constitution will be passed by simple majority i.e. 5 Kenyan’s voting will be sufficient to bring in the new “ Constitution.”
To challenge the results of the referendum you will have to deposit five million shillings with the court before your case can be heard. If you do not have the money the case shall be dismissed.
A Countdown Campaign
Speak on issues during services
Put information on service sheets.
Buy faith oriented papers and other non-partisan papers since the leading daily has maintained a blanket silence on the churches protest.
Listen and watch faith oriented media and other non-partisan media since the leading media houses have maintained a blanket silence on the churches protest.
Station a prominent countdown calendar in every church
Make calls to all radio stations requesting for programmes to give unbiased civic education
Turn out in large numbers for the voting
Spread the news – speak to at least 2 people everyday to vote NO!
Form observer groups
Seek to be deployed as election officials
Provide correct civic education
AND PRAY
Form a prayer chain
Pray every day at least for a moment
Give of your time, skills, energy and finances
Contact Kenya Church for more information
The Kenya Church
P.O.Box 10445 00100
NAIROBI.
Tel: 2730103
Mobile 0721-358496,0733-710770
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Post by aeichener on Aug 28, 2005 14:49:43 GMT 3
Hatemongers exist in every religion. Even peaceful Buddhism and Zoroastrianism (the most likeable religion IMO) have had their share in history.
But in Kenya, they are predominantly Christian (and a few Mungiki). Feh.
Alexander
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Post by Kenyan11 on Aug 29, 2005 16:23:16 GMT 3
According to an article by Esther Onchana in the Daily Nation, www.nationmedia.com/dailynation/nmgcontententry.asp?category_id=27&newsid=56044 Kadhis courts have been here since 1895 :"Section 66 (5) of the Constitution extends the jurisdiction of these courts to "the determination of questions of Muslim law relating to personal status, marriage, divorce or inheritance, in proceedings in which all the parties are Muslims." They are in operation as we speak and have harmed no one and threaten no one. As Kenyans criss cross the motherland and go about their daily business, they remain unaffected or untouched by these courts whose only purpose is to help the country's minority Muslims practise their lifestyle. Marriage, inheritance and lifestyle issues for the Muslims are guided there and have been thrashed out in these courts for ages. To try and distort facts and make the hoi polloi, the masses out there, cringe in fear that some dangerous courts are on the way here is in my opinion the worst crime against a united, peace loving country. All arguments against these courts are driven by preachers of hate keen to stoke fear and hate into Kenyan hearts and thus feed the already building up flames of religious tension over these courts. Strangling the rights of the minority (respected for ages but clearly under threat now from a powerful lobby group) is not the way forward for our rainbow nation that is known across the globe and the continent for its tolerance, peace and stability. It is clear that there is a hidden agenda in this zealous drive to kick out the Kadhi courts from existence. Irrespective of the results of their drive, the preachers of hate should know one thing: in this day and age, no amount of spin, manipulation of information for selfish ends or creation of fear in public minds will deter us from repeating our stance. The kadhi courts have harmed no one and are being hounded out by zealots preaching fear into the hearts of innocent Kenyans. I will not lionize these hate mongers further by poring over their acts of aggression against a peaceful minority but my determination to infuse and inject honesty into this particula debate continues. I will not shy away from repeating what many Kenyans know; the courts are simply being opposed because of selfish interests by certain powerful segments of our church leadership. What harm will these courts do? Pore over the draft constitution and you will see that the public is being tuned into opposing what are essentially harmless courts. |
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Post by Kamale on Aug 31, 2005 14:57:09 GMT 3
It is unfortunate when you see so many lies peddled by people who really do not know what they are saying. Look at the email posted by Oloo- it is so full of religious hate, that coming from a religious organisation it surprises one little that this particular 'Kenya Church' is not worse than the Islamic Fundamentalists!!
My message to those who are so scared of the spread of Islam is that they need to market their product better than the Muslims, and spread their religion better without the vitriol and lies we see!! Both Muslims and Christians I think believe in the same God.
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. OO might even like him (see e.g. there his intelligent, well-written article "NO MORE HEROES, ONLY BULLIES - Some Tentative Thoughts").