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Post by boyengo on Mar 21, 2011 2:02:51 GMT 3
Omundu, You seem to be well versed with Bungoma politics and thats encouraging.I would like to ask you about a certain rumor that eugene might be Micheal Wamalwa's son(brother) .Its rumoured that Micheal,because of their culture took care of his fathers last wife after his death and as result a kid was born out of this union??Is this true ama maneno za watu tu???
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Post by omundu on Mar 21, 2011 2:48:12 GMT 3
TNk and boyengo. I willhave to get back to you on that one.
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Post by gemagema on Mar 21, 2011 12:11:58 GMT 3
Omundu,
Now we seem to be on the same page. I appreciate your complementarity of my debate...but i will still make some points clear.
First, when I wrote that the Bukusus and Maragolis are the largest tribes in Luhya, i just meant both of them in relation to other sub-tribes. I did not necessarily mean that Maragoli is the biggest. The bukusus are the largest, then the maragoli, both in headcount and political clout.
Now, I do know very well, and have been watching closely how Weta ran away with Ford Kenya. He may not have as much money as the Ruto's, but compared to Eugene, he has quid. That is why he managed to bag FordK and its delegates. He didnt allow elections of new candidates, who if they came on, they would have affected his votes. If you followed West FM clearly, assuming that you did not honour and dignify the 'Weta Ford kenya' party elections event by physically being at Bomas, the occassion attracted a very small crowd. Essentially only those voting delegates and the voted.
Boyengo,
Eugene is not Mike Kijana Wamalwa's son. He is Kijana brother and the son of Wamalwa Snr (Senator). At the time Eugene was brought forth by his mother (Mary), his father (Senator) was alive. There are almost 8 siblings behind or younger than Eugene.... if Kijana is their dad, then he must have really been sexually busy. BTW, politics has a lot of gossip and rumours. So, that was just one of them.
Now in closing, i do anticipate (and it is my wish) that Eugene will join Raila as the days tide in closer to the 2012 elections. He has no choice as the Bukusu's would prefer going RO than KK way. Now, if he joins RO, weta and Muda have no chances. I know somebody wrote somewhere in this thread that Weta will move to ODM with Ford K. Likewise, Eugene will move there with whichever party he will have. And when he does that, then it will be time for akina Weta to realise that a party in Kenya aint important, but the name behind it.
You know, Eugene is not joining RO now bcos he thinks that RO will not choose a running mate from Western. For RO to be seen as national, his running may come from elsewhere. If Eugene is running as a presidential candidate, he is hoping another leader will recognise him as a running mate. He is hoping Ruto can grant him these, although hapo, he is totally mistaken. Uhuru or Ruto will not support Eugene. The sooner he realises that, the better. I guess, he is allowed to dream though.
I know we might all like to think that many people are ODMers because of the party's consititution and whatever the party represents. Lakini, hiyo ni matumaini tu. I am a well read person, and yet am not in ODM cos of the party's fundamentals but i joined it because of Raila and the fact that it was the other party, the oppositional party, the strongest party against the central parties. Hiyo tuu. So, Luhyas are in ODM bcos of Raila and the other reasons i have stated above. Political party belonging in Kenya is not inspired by the party's ideologies. Hapo tujafika bado...and no country in Africa is there yet. Even the leading democracy like SA.
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Post by kamalet on Mar 21, 2011 12:59:31 GMT 3
All these alliances are nothing but an alliance against Raila.
Problem is that they continue to be credible and the noose tightens over Raila's neck when other people start running away in droves leaving him with a shell comprised of his community members!
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Post by destiny on Mar 21, 2011 13:25:20 GMT 3
Partners in crime clutching straws with noses barely above the raging waters. Truth no matter how long it takes- always comes out! Tick Tock tick tock!.........
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Post by commes on Mar 21, 2011 15:23:31 GMT 3
Partners in crime clutching straws with noses barely above the raging waters. Truth no matter how long it takes- always comes out! Tick Tock tick tock!......... Indeed, these are partners in crime. As April 8th 2011 approaches in gusto, it still beats me why Ruto and Uhuru , of the Ocampo6, are still the loudest. Why seek political popularity on a legal matter? This is not about presidential ambitions. This road was long closed and they know it!Henry Kosgey , former police commissioner Ali among others seem to acknowledge that the ICC process is unstoppable. Muthaura, on the other hand is still actively attempting to revive a dead horse. It is not always successful. Please tell him and others. This legal process is not a simple a matter as the two allude to in political rallies. The intention of these continued rallies is to create a following that can lead the country back into chaos.
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Post by mzee on Mar 21, 2011 16:19:08 GMT 3
All these alliances are nothing but an alliance against Raila. Problem is that they continue to be credible and the noose tightens over Raila's neck when other people start running away in droves leaving him with a shell comprised of his community members! Kamale, The last time you united against Raila saying he was not electable he beat you to a pulp. Now, what new stuff do you have? Kombo, Uhuru, Eugene, Jirongo, Kuttuny, Mbugua?? Are these guys new and what can they bring on the table? I pity you are your Hague bound boys
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Post by commes on Mar 21, 2011 16:48:48 GMT 3
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Post by job on Mar 22, 2011 3:04:56 GMT 3
1) To imagine one can postpone Kenya's 2012 general elections until Uhuru and Ruto's cases are disposed at the Hague is far-fetched and ludicrous! But at least the nation should be thankful to Uhuru Kenyatta's point-man (& Kabete MP) Lewis Nguyai for his loud mouth - any signs of delay in implementing legislative electoral reforms provided under the new constitution will boil down to the Uhuru-Nguyai axis.
After hanging onto power illegitimately in 2007, they now want to unconstitutionally extend Kibaki's tenure yet again as they plot the next civilian coup outside ICC's calendar. Let these anti-reformers and water melons know that the nation is ready to demand full implementation of its new constitution - which sets a date for the next elections. 2) To imagine Kenya will be grounded because of Uhuru and Ruto's ICC trials is plainly outrageous.Most Kenyans are supportive of the trials, and the moment the dramatics of the trials (witness testimonies, evidence tabling etc) begin, expect a sharp increase in support for the trials. 3) The imagined martyrdom by the Ocampo six only exists within minds of captives held hostage by the suspects' current communal mobilization efforts. The rest of the nation is firm in calling for Justice, fullstop! As details of the murder plots emerge, perception of martyrdom will likely change dramatically! Vicious charlatans will be exposed for exactly what they are. 4) The common denominator in the impunity merchants is their collateral goal to sabotage implementation of the new constitution. ICC trials must not stall implementation of the new constitution - including creation of new constituencies and establsihment of new devolution structures. These are too important to be derailed by trials of six criminals. 5) I thank Speaker Marende for recalling the House to attend to important matters - let those busy mobilizing their communities (or begging UN Security Council) in futile endeavors do so while the rest of the nation proceed with important legislation of the new Katiba's instruments. 6) Uhuru, Ruto et al., can tour anywhere seeking sympathy or attention but it will neither change the trajectory of the ICC process nor public perception...especially when they make bombastic arguments underating the intelligence of Kenyans such as "Raila is the one who took us to the ICC"...as if there was no Waki Commission and a certain envelope... How about they start talking about how they'll share the two seats between Uhuru, Kalonzo, Ruto, Saitoti, Eugene...who gets the kichwa...nani the mkia and which will mark-time...
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Post by kamalet on Mar 22, 2011 13:10:42 GMT 3
All these alliances are nothing but an alliance against Raila. Problem is that they continue to be credible and the noose tightens over Raila's neck when other people start running away in droves leaving him with a shell comprised of his community members! Kamale, The last time you united against Raila saying he was not electable he beat you to a pulp. Now, what new stuff do you have? Kombo, Uhuru, Eugene, Jirongo, Kuttuny, Mbugua?? Are these guys new and what can they bring on the table? I pity you are your Hague bound boys Mzee The man has never won anything beyond Kibera. And you can take it to the bank, he is not winning anything this time where I fear it might be his final humiliation.
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Post by mzee on Mar 22, 2011 16:46:50 GMT 3
Kamale, I think that your memory is too short or you are deliberately trying to avoid the obvious. The truth of the matter is that RAO has won many times. I know that you would like to twist and bend things to show that the man is a zero. But as things stand and unless something changes drastically he is the man to beat come 2012. I don’t see The Hague bound boys making any impact. They can run around as much as they want making noises about RAO this RAO that, lakini wapi. If I were RAO I would not change anything as far as the noise making is concerned. That’s free advertisement. Kamale let me tell you that the propaganda that was thrown RAO´s way in the 2007/2008 was fifty times greater than today’s nonsense. Yet the he still beat Kibaki/Uhuru/Michuki axis to a pulp. Nothing has changed since then.
And yes RAO has won more than Kibera. He challenged and torpedoed arap Moi and installed the lame duck PORK, then he did you guys in in 2005 referendum, then beat you to a pulp in 2007 elections i.e. both parliamentary and presidential. What else must a man do to prove to you that he can still thwack you? Chill my brother.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 22, 2011 17:03:34 GMT 3
Kamale, The last time you united against Raila saying he was not electable he beat you to a pulp. Now, what new stuff do you have? Kombo, Uhuru, Eugene, Jirongo, Kuttuny, Mbugua?? Are these guys new and what can they bring on the table? I pity you are your Hague bound boys Mzee The man has never won anything beyond Kibera. And you can take it to the bank, he is not winning anything this time where I fear it might be his final humiliation. Kamale,The obsession some of you have with Raila sometimes borders on being completely deranged. Look how much money, resources and time the Kibaki chauvinists have spent on Raila since 2003 and give me one thing they have achieved with all their efforts. How about a big zero. Look at 2003. Kenya was an optimistic country. The citizens were thrilled to have gotten rid of one of your beloved kings, Daniel Toroitich Arap Moi. There was great hope in the land for a new beginning. Kenya was ready for a new constitution which Narc had promised will be in place within one hundred days. So what happened? Well a bunch of pathetic tribal chauvinists under the guidance of Kibaki took over State House and made fighting Raila their number one and only agenda other than stealing money. I am sure you still remember all your vitriol against Bomas and how you were sure Bomas will be dismantled in a few days by King Kibaki. Those of you still "seized by" the old order of status quo thought the president was the king and would do anything they wanted. So for over a year we had battles at Bomas where the slogan was to stop Raila from taking power through the back door. Just total rubbish but that is what Kibaki spent the first three years of his regime doing with loud cheers from the likes of you. Finally it boiled down to Kibaki trying to impose his own constitution on Kenyans. Again people like you were jumping all over the place telling us even here in Jukwaa that it was just Raila and the Luos who opposed Kibaki's bogus katiba and that the Kibaki mongrel will pass by a landslide. We told you it will flop rather badly. Evetually your king was crashed and his piece of trash confined to the dustbin where it belonged. That was a whipping you guys had to get. You got it good. Then came the 2007 Elections. People like yourself and other tribalists were screaming here in Jukwaa and elsewhere how Raila was unelectable and how ODM was going to be just a Luo party. You should go back and check some of the nonsense you guys wrote about Raila and the Luos. Wuite embarrassing I will tell you. But that was the mindset of the Kibaki chauvinists. It is the mindset that almost destroyed the country. Kibaki's idea after realizing that the "unelectable" Raila was beating him decided to rob the elections. The grand plan based on their tirbal way of looking at Kenya was to rob the elections and then shoot a few Luos in Kisumu and Kibera and things will be sorted out in a few days. Didn't work, did it? Rift Valley erupted, Nairobi erupted, in fact teh whole country went on fire. Kibaki was paralyzed in State House and the rest as we know is history. The thieves were caught on their tracks and what started as a sure bet against Raila was in tatters. Again. Niendelee? Ok thanks. Katiba mpya. Remember all the wailing and despondency some of you had for months hoping and praying that the Ruto mob and later the watermelons would sabotage the new Katiba because it was a Raila led effort. In fact when Raila fell sick some of you had the shame to be celebrating his imminent death and end to the constitutional process. Raila left hospital and led the country to a new katiba which is the law of the land as we speak. That is another whipping some people had to get. They did. And now that we have the new katiba the little thief had the audacity to try to kill it by imposing his cronies as the guiding hands of the judicial process by imposing a CJ, AG, DPP. Again some whipping had to be administered before things could be done right. That is ongoing. And on and ON it goes - shuttle diplomacy, a big flop, deferral nonsense, a big flop. What next? I think Kenya is better off when we look at what is good for the country and how to move the nation forward instead of this deranged obsession on how to beat Raila. Imagine where our country would be today if after the 2002 elections the leaders came together brought the nation together with the opportunities it had instead of fighting Raila who has just happened to be on the right side of history at each and everyone of these battles. We would be in a very good place, but some tribalists can see that. Washindwe. adongo
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Post by job on Mar 22, 2011 17:22:00 GMT 3
Are you guys wasting your time responding to Kamale's wishful thinking and hypotheticals? If wishes were Horses, beggars would ride! JUKWAA's history (archives) will bear that Kamale's record on forecasting is as impressive as Sunderland's success in the premier league.
This is the same Kamale who promised here in JUKWAA (with the 'take it to the bank' rejoinder) that Wako's draft would pass the referendum in 2005. He promised that Raila is unelectable. And do you all remember his confident NO stand during the last referendum. And what did he arrogantly promise when Kibaki made the unilateral Judicial nominations....
Didn't this fella guarantee that Obama can't be elected US President..even promising that when the smear campaigns start (including those staged from kenya), he would be vanquished...remember all that. The guy suddenly became an American, a Republican to boot.
Folks, don't waste your time responding to Kamale's emotional dream-alouds and wishful thinking! That's a discussion reserved after the elections.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 22, 2011 17:35:32 GMT 3
job,
Sometimes we leave them alone but when they insist they get a sledge hammer on the head. It seems they like it from time to time. But yeah sometimes we have to stop them from revising historical facts and records. I see a lot of small time hecklers around. For the most part their shallow barking are not worth bothering with but they know where they. There is a limit to the amount crap people can put here. It is good to remind them about that.
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Post by gakungu on Mar 22, 2011 18:34:49 GMT 3
Job/ Adongo,
I have been watching the unfolding drama in the political arena from a distant for the past three years.
I must confess i got really dislussioned by the PEV that made me keep off political debates for for the whole time. As we approach another election anti-reform forces are engaging in desperate ethnic mobilisation that is really sad. We cannot allow recurrence of traumatic events of 2007 in our beloved motherland.
But it is great to see you have remained truly faithful to the reform agenda in this country despite the futile destraction from the likes of Kamale.
Keep up the good fight.
I will be rejoining you soon.
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Post by commes on Mar 22, 2011 19:32:43 GMT 3
Job/ Adongo, I have been watching the unfolding drama in the political arena from a distant for the past three years. I must confess i got really dislussioned by the PEV that made me keep off political debates for for the whole time. As we approach another election anti-reform forces are engaging in desperate ethnic mobilisation that is really sad. We cannot allow recurrence of traumatic events of 2007 in our beloved motherland. But it is great to seeyou have remained truly faithful to the reform agenda in this country despite the futile destraction from the likes of Kamale. Keep up the good fight. I will be rejoining you soon. Gakungu Politics has never been my cup of tea either. Nor has writing. However following what transpired in the bungled election of 2007 and the ensuing post election violence, I vowed to fight impunity, bad governance, injustice, intolerance among other ills that plague our society with all that I have got. I found myself contributing in-kind and financially, in small ways, where I could to strengthen our institutions. Yes, I campaigned for the Yes vote and was happy with the realization of a new constitution. Like many progressive Jukwaa members here, I contribute inputs to civil society when I can. I am a man on a mission. I was not cut out for politics but since politics is what seems to drive our country, I am knee deep in this muck. It does not matter which side of the divide one is, I will only embrace what is right for the common person. Jukwaa is one forum where I vent, horn skills, grow knowledge and bounce ideas. It will be great to have your active participation and many others. The more the better. That way we shall have a fellowship of those willing to hold the government to account. It is a big dream but doable, in our life time. Nime choka kuvumilia kuwa Mkenya. Nataka kujivunia
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Post by politicalmaniac on Mar 28, 2011 18:41:11 GMT 3
Gakungu Politics has never been my cup of tea either. Nor has writing. Like many progressive Jukwaa members here, I contribute inputs to civil society when I can. I am a man on a mission. I was not cut out for politics but since politics is what seems to drive our country, I am knee deep in this muck. It does not matter which side of the divide one is, I will only embrace what is right for the common person. Jukwaa is one forum where I vent, horn skills, grow knowledge and bounce ideas. It will be great to have your active participation and many others. The more the better. That way we shall have a fellowship of those willing to hold the government to account. It is a big dream but doable, in our life time. Nime choka kuvumilia kuwa Mkenya. Nataka kujivunia I think you summarized my philosophy right there! I was across the pond for a wedding and have been sporadically paying attention here, and esp this thread. The bride is the daughter of a farmer from Kimilili, a veteran teacher, small businessman and quite respected. so as you can imagine there were many Bukusu folks, from the various clans and also from Western in general. Personally I have never paid attention to the clan structures, nor have I been a clan "partisan". None the less, one thing was clear. The Rt Hon Prime Minister is still very, very respected, right across the "Western board" so to speak. People tend to NOT to appreciate the deep roots that the Rt Hon Prime Minister has in this community, that span generations and issues and even blood/marriage relationships. Let me tell you guys one thing. In Western, there is a vast deep network of folks just ready to support ODM and its vision because its the right one, because its the one that they feel gives them the best shot to progress, and its the one that gives the Nation the better options. And yes, a lot of people want mudamba jnr to be more assertive, more feisty, get a think tank behind him to help generate some ideas and governance philosophy. That has been the strength of the Rt Hon Prime Minister. mudamba jnr is simply being out worked by 'sherongo' and the young turks lilke Eugene. I for one have never been a fan of mudamba jn, I more or less tolerate him. But he is respected if not beloved amongst the community. He is his fathers legatee. But he needs to read some books and loose some weight. I remember one time during the last election cycle, the Rt Hon Prime Minister was in Denver, Co for a conference. We went there as I happened to be in the area for some NGO meeting. We went to his hotel. A friend of Rose, went up with her to fetch him from his room. she later told me that she was amazed at the books the Rt Hon Prime Minsiter had on his desk and he was chilling with one as he waited. Which other politician do you know who reads? Now ruto is one smart politician, supremely confident, talented as they come and very charismatic. I loved the way he agitated for the Bomas katiba esp when it came to devolution. For some reason he was the only one who knew how to summarize the talking points into a coherent manner, and no wonder he was the point man when it came to that issue. When you compare and contrast ruto and mudamba jnr, and ask yourself who would you want as a rep? the answer would be obvious to any object observer - ruto hands down. Mudamba jnr has his work cut out for him but he and ODM will prevail in Western. I just dont see how the mafiya and their lackeys like eugene, and the talented but fatally flawed ruto crack the ODM grip in Western. It wont happen. I see no pathway for them. their money will be chewed but kura ni kwa ODM. That is exactly what the folks from back home who came for the wedding were saying. They can see right through the ploys and shenanigans of these mafiya types and their lackeys who they want to use and then dump (Think Kombo, wetangula, and soon to be eugene) BTW , Hyde park was rocking with protests against the conservative mafiya govt who want to rob the poor and middle class, while the rich get tax cuts.
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