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Post by phil on Feb 2, 2012 16:47:21 GMT 3
RAILA SET FOR A TOUR OF THE COUNTRYSIDE TO MEET ODM DELEGATES.
Prime Minister Mr. Raila Odinga is this Saturday 4th Feb. 2012 scheduled to meet over 1,200 ODM delegates from across Ukambani region in Machakos Town.
The meeting which will be held at the Machakos Sports Club will be strictly for elected party delegates with whom they will share ideas of a winning formula for the party in this year’s General Election.
During the meeting, which is the first one of a series of scheduled meetings with the party delegates from across Kenya, the Prime Minister who is also the Party Leader of the ODM will use the occasion to sell the party policies to the delegates, exchange ideas on how to market the party to the masses and ask for the delegates’ support during the party’s presidential nomination exercise.
The delegates to the Machakos meeting will be drawn from Kitui, Makueni and Machakos Counties comprising all the elected officials in the Youth and Women League and the Mainstream.
The delegates shall be drawn from Machakos Town, Kathiani, Kangundo, Yatta, Mwala, Mbooni, Makueni, Kaiti, Kilome, Kibwezi, Kitui Central, Kitui West, Kitui South, Mutito, Mwingi North and Mwingi South.
Earlier before the meeting, the Prime Minister will preside over the opening ceremony of the party’s Orange House for Machakos County in Machakos town.
On Sunday the 5th of February 2012, the Prime Minister will meet party delegates from Kajiado, Narok and Laikipia Counties in Kajiado Town. The delegates shall be drawn from Kajiado Central, Kajiado North, Kajiado South, Narok North, Narok South, Kilgoris, Lakipia East and Laikipia West Sub-Branches.
On Tuesday the 7th of February 2012, the Prime Minister will be in Lodwar Town for a session with delegates from all the three Sub-Branches of Turkana County namely, Turkana Central, Turkana North and Turkana South.
On Wednesday the 8th of February 2012, Mr. Odinga will be in Bungoma town meeting delegates from all the five Sub-Branches of Bungoma County namely, Kanduyi, Bumula, Sirisia, Webuye, Kimilili and Mt. Elgon.
On Thursday the 9th of February 2012, the Premier will meet delegates from all the Sub-Branches of Transnzoia and West Pokot Counties namely, Cherang’any, Saboti, Kwanza, Kapenguria, Sigor and Kacheliba. The meeting will be held in Kitale town.
On Friday the 10th of February 2012, Mr. Odinga will be the guest of delegates from all the Sub-Branches of Kakamega, Vihiga and Busia Counties namely Lurambi, Ikolomani, Shinyalu, Malava, Lugari, Khwisero, Butere, Mumias, Matungu, Nambale, Funyula, Bundalang’i, Butula, Amagoro, Emuhaya, Sabatia, Vihiga and Hamisi. The meeting shall be held at the Gold Hotel Kakamega. Ends…
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Post by nereah on Feb 2, 2012 20:00:32 GMT 3
the town hall meetings will, if you ask me, tell us more than what will ever meet our eyes and ears.
i would be keen to see: whether mps and aspirants would be jostling to accompany agwambo or raila's handlers would insist this must be his lone engagement with the grassroots.
i will also be watching the attendance and reception in rift valley and kalonzo's backyard of ukambani.
what is of concern to me however is the democratic space that odm is offering the female gender. i am aware that there are special convention for women and youth but with national elections coming up and adc,it like there is not even a potential female running mate.
margaret wanjiru who i had in mind seems to have been frustrated by mayor aladwa camp. youthful rachael shebesh doesn't betrays the ambition and steel. liz ongoro, the other high profiled official, is keeping me guessing.
agwambo's handlers should ensure that he engage the women and especially the youth and encourage as many as possible to go for the national post including his running mate.
my pesa nane.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 2, 2012 21:53:47 GMT 3
the town hall meetings will, if you ask me, tell us more than what will ever meet our eyes and ears. i would be keen to see: whether mps and aspirants would be jostling to accompany agwambo or raila's handlers would insist this must be his lone engagement with the grassroots. Mudavadi better be there! One way or another! If it is still a ticket that is!
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Post by nereah on Feb 3, 2012 15:43:33 GMT 3
jakaswanga, we are in the same wavelength. in the other thread, i recommended strongly that mudavadi and if possible the old pentagon, should be in the townhall meetings. i may be wrong as usual.
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 3, 2012 16:02:33 GMT 3
the town hall meetings will, if you ask me, tell us more than what will ever meet our eyes and ears. i would be keen to see: whether mps and aspirants would be jostling to accompany agwambo or raila's handlers would insist this must be his lone engagement with the grassroots. Mudavadi better be there! One way or another! If it is still a ticket that is! Jakaswanga,
There are times when it's appropriate and necessary for the PM to jointly appear with Mudavadi, just as there are times when it is not. For better resources management, one can expect the two criss crossing the country, converging only as necessary.
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 3, 2012 16:14:34 GMT 3
agwambo's handlers should ensure that he engage the women and especially the youth and encourage as many as possible to go for the national post including his running mate. my pesa nane. Nereah,This is a critical constituency. In Why Raila Cannot Drop Mudavadi As VP Running Mate, omwenga.com/2011/09/18/why-raila-cannot-drop-mudavadi-and-word-to-raila-supporters-an-admirers-in-east-and-central/, I noted the following: Gender balance, however, presents a series of its own concerns and considerations which on balance, in my view, there are more pitfalls there than those Raila has to face in tackling regional balance. Some of these involve the obvious like the obvious women VP candidates cannot be named for any number of reasons I can’t get into now and these women are: Hon. Charity Ngilu; Hon. Hon. Martha Karua; Justice Njoki Ndungu (yes she can serve as VP and then P but she’ll really have to roll the dice on that one before saying yes to the run), or some un-ubiquitous woman but that by itself would be enough reason not to pick her: the above mentioned pack will rally all the women against the team! As I noted in the blog, “better you go with the known than unknown on this one,” explaining, “We experimented and succeeded [in appointing relatively unknown "outsiders"] with the Supreme Court CJ but one will be pushing their luck to try the same with the Executive. I concluded that substitution of Mudavadi for a woman is therefore not desirable either, which then leaves Mudavadi the ideal VP candidate, in my view, everything considered. All women in Kenya should rally behind Raila, though, if anything because they have no good reason not to and all other candidates fall short on the CV end.
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Post by nereah on Feb 3, 2012 16:44:54 GMT 3
omwenga & all,
two quick ones.
1.the notion that raila-mudavadi ticket is untenable because of the western tag is not only false but misplaced.i argue that those opposed to it should find a more convincing and logical premise.i should be able to know how odm's presidential running mate would be identified and as things stands, odm choices would be the pace setter for competition.
2.the registrar of political parties is warning in one of nairobi's newspaper that political parties have upto april to put their acts together. needless to say the compliance rate is appalling. among the stringent requirement is the gender mainstreaming(my word)personally i am for a woman running mate of the odm's candidate and i am disappointed that mudavadi has not committed to picking a woman running mate and hope that agwambo would speak to this constituency in same vain.
odm,as i gathered from its last meet in nairobi, is re-branding and deliberately going into the 2012 as the party for kenyan women and youth.as i argued elsewhere the town-hall meetings should deliberately expose odm as a movement with the widest democratic space for women and youth.there is no catholic way of going about this.
i have to go, see you all on 21st.
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Post by phil on Feb 3, 2012 18:24:08 GMT 3
omwenga & all, two quick ones. 1.the notion that raila-mudavadi ticket is untenable because of the western tag is not only false but misplaced.i argue that those opposed to it should find a more convincing and logical premise.i should be able to know how odm's presidential running mate would be identified and as things stands, odm choices would be the pace setter for competition. It is a myth being peddled by those who have been unable to break the bond between the PM and his Deputy. As a matter of fact, the same ticket did win the 2007 polls and I did not hear anything like what we are hearing now. This is something the NEC has given a pledge on. The party's constitution is to be overhauled so as to comply with the new constitution. What we want to see is the playing field leveled to make it equal for either gender to be candidate or running mate. Mind you even parliament one third gender parity requirement is being deemed in some quarters as impossible to achieve without a constitutional amendment. ODM is rebranding as a party of the future to Kenyans of all classes, all genders and all tribes. Town hall meetings enables the party leadership to hear from the people who interact with the masses on the ground at first hand, and this helps the party in formulating its policies and manifesto. One cannot expect to do this at a public rally as the other side wants us to believe.
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Post by mzee on Feb 4, 2012 0:35:04 GMT 3
There is need for the prophets of doom and odm haters to create à rift between musalia and raila. All sane people know that the raila mudavadi combination is the best deal in town. Both men know this and they want to keep it that way. Now we have people running around claiming to know what is best for the party. Truth of the matter is that they intend to àntagonize its top honchos and kill the vibrant party if possible. Its becoming clearer by the day that odm is forming the next government. Forget about what the KKK clan says, they not going anywhere. Perhaps to Mali[youtube ;D
I love the town hall meetings for they are à good break from the usual rallies. In townhalls there is dialogue between leaders. Besides, the elections is still months away, why waste energy holding the so called mammoth rallies? The game is yet to begin, yet some are already calling for halftime.
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Post by phil on Feb 4, 2012 11:14:38 GMT 3
A call by ODM mp's to have president Kibaki endorse Prime Minister Raila Odinga's presidential bid is now raising eyebrows is this new Raila Odinga? He has quiet ever since his two rival's charges at The Hague were confirmed and his lieutenants ambushed the head of state by asking President Mwai Kibaki to give his blessings on Odinga's presidential quest. Hussein Mohamed spoke to political analysts on the matter, and they read both desperation and tact in the prime minister latest move.
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Post by mzee on Feb 4, 2012 11:40:11 GMT 3
All I can tell ODM is to stop asking for stuff that can't happen. Kibaki will never endorse Raila. Raila must therefore fight his own fights with no reference to kibaki.
We all know kibakis preferred choice, why should ODM bother him. It's a waste of time. It sadly portrays the leading contender as desparate, which he has no reason to be. Besides the endorsment might not sway the masses.
That Raila has not mentioned the Hague couple is indeed a good thing. Let the couple fry in own fat. The so called political commentators are desparate for his thoughts, with Ngunyi claiming that Ida was talking on Railas behalf.
Raila must consolidate his troops and march on. No need to second guess for ODM is still the party of the hour.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 4, 2012 18:19:33 GMT 3
A call by ODM mp's to have president Kibaki endorse Prime Minister Raila Odinga's presidential bid is now raising eyebrows is this new Raila Odinga? He has quiet ever since his two rival's charges at The Hague were confirmed and his lieutenants ambushed the head of state by asking President Mwai Kibaki to give his blessings on Odinga's presidential quest. Hussein Mohamed spoke to political analysts on the matter, and they read both desperation and tact in the prime minister latest move. phil,This Orengo buffoonery, is more than hilarious. Once the laughing has died down, the sadness becomes apparent. Kibaki is in a different party, with, supposedly, its own ideological stand and vision, and a list of internal priorities as the country moves toward elections, and his succession. In what understanding of democracy must you be operating from, to call for the leader of the opposition and icumbent head of state, to endorse the other party other than his own? Orengo's mind seems to be fossilized, marooned in the days when political parties meant nothing but their personalities. Instead of going around the country to sell the ODM vision and ticket to the Kenyan voters, Orengo is a dog wagging his tail, licking Kibaki's toes to please him, so that he can throw ODM the bone of endorsement! I am happy Orengo is too far gone to realize what a sickening display he is engaging in. A political retard and court-joker, uneasy that he has no record of achievement at his ministry to boast around the country and ganner votes! It reveals ODM insecurity, lacking confidence in her own vote-baggin power. CALLING HISTORICAL DEBTS! [MIGHT NOT RUTO DO THE SAME ON ODM] Kibaki owes Raila a tosha because Raila toshad him in 2002? I thought as soon as Kibaki assumed office, he trashed and had no recollection whatsoever of the much publicised MOU between him and Raila? [hiyo maneno ya MOU ni illiterate taunt, mavi ya kuku!]Now Jakoyo Midiwo thinks Kibaki must have a stab at his conscience, find his moral compass, and say Raila tosha. Ai yawa! Could this be why a clown like Mbuvi Sonko has the guts to say in public: hawa watu wa Raila ni watoto wachanga, hawana msimamo! kuomba omba peremende ndiyo kazi yao!And there indeed they were, asking baba Jimmy for peremende! Baba Jimmy should perhaps have said what Omollo Okero, in a suicidal fit, once told his male constituents after they gave him a baloney petition: Ufuwo, kelnauru mondu anywolnugo nyithindo mariek!Okero could nolonger suffer the stupidy of a section of his people!
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Post by amunra on Feb 6, 2012 15:21:33 GMT 3
A call by ODM mp's to have president Kibaki endorse Prime Minister Raila Odinga's presidential bid is now raising eyebrows is this new Raila Odinga? He has quiet ever since his two rival's charges at The Hague were confirmed and his lieutenants ambushed the head of state by asking President Mwai Kibaki to give his blessings on Odinga's presidential quest. Hussein Mohamed spoke to political analysts on the matter, and they read both desperation and tact in the prime minister latest move. phil,This Orengo buffoonery, is more than hilarious. Once the laughing has died down, the sadness becomes apparent. Orengo's mind seems to be fossilized, marooned in the days when political parties meant nothing but their personalities. ! CALLING HISTORICAL DEBTS! [MIGHT NOT RUTO DO THE SAME ON ODM] Kibaki owes Raila a tosha because Raila toshad him in 2002? I thought as soon as Kibaki assumed office, he trashed and had no recollection whatsoever of the much publicised MOU between him and Raila? [hiyo maneno ya MOU ni illiterate taunt, mavi ya kuku!]Now Jakoyo Midiwo thinks Kibaki must have a stab at his conscience, find his moral compass, and say Raila tosha. And there indeed they were, asking baba Jimmy for peremende! Baba Jimmy should perhaps have said what Omollo Okero, in a suicidal fit, once told his male constituents after they gave him a baloney petition: Ufuwo, kelnauru mondu anywolnugo nyithindo mariek!Going by the statements at a some forum it does seem that the PM isnt too eager to follow the 'RUDISHA MKONO IDEOLOGY' a la orengo.
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Post by moesha on Feb 7, 2012 20:05:55 GMT 3
Raila Calls For Kikuyu - Luo United Vote
By Mosoku Geoffrrey"Prime Minister Raila Odinga and his ODM party are confronting negative perceptions about him and dispelling fears about his candidature, among the Kikuyu community. Raila and ODM now want the Kikuyu and Luo communities to vote in one block during the forthcoming elections.Public Works minister Dalmas Otieno y esterday said that history has proven that when the two communities vote in one direction, the country experiences peace. “The day the Kikuyu and Luo think in the same line, the country goes that way. The day they are in different directions, the country is paralysed. We must unite these two communities,” Otieno said. Raila, who is the ODM party leader, is now planning massive rallies and tours in Central Kenya to explain himself to the people. The PM is hoping to appeal to the Kikuyu to accept him, saying that differences between the two communities are imaginary. While saying his presidency will not harm the Kikuyu, Raila wondered what had changed from the time he declared Kibaki Tosha and was thereafter received as a hero in Kikuyuland. “
I remember after the victory of Narc in 2002. We had a Kibaki home coming party and all the way from Kenol, Sagana, Murang'a, Mathira, Tetu to Othaya, people received me with shouts of ‘Raila Njamba',” he recalled. Raila blamed propaganda for what he termed as perceived political enmity between the Kikuyu and Luo communities. The PM, who was hosting the Kikuyu’s for Change in a breakfast meeting yesterday, went down the path of history in seeking to correct what he termed as stereotypes. Raila said differences between his later father Jaramogi Oginga Odinga and founding father Jomo Kenyatta were ideological and ethnic. “Jaramogi’s lieutenant was Bildad Kaggia, a Kikuyu while Kenyatta’s lieutenant was Tom Mboya, a Luo. Jaramogi and Kaggia were seeking the realisation of the independence dream,” he added. www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/61305-raila-calls-for-kikuyu-luo-united-vote
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 7, 2012 20:32:49 GMT 3
There does not seem to be much coming from the so called town hall meetings (whatever that means). Apart from the venom being spewed by the likes of Ntimama and the ever confused Nkaissery (by the way is he supporting Saitoti or Raila?), there is nothing to write home about.
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 7, 2012 20:35:34 GMT 3
Raila Calls For Kikuyu - Luo United Vote
By Mosoku GeoffrreyPublic Works minister Dalmas Otieno y esterday said that history has proven that when the two communities vote in one direction, the country experiences peace. “The day the Kikuyu and Luo think in the same line, the country goes that way. The day they are in different directions, the country is paralysed. We must unite these two communities,” Otieno said. it used to be called the KLA, the Kikuyu Luo Alliance! And it was the alliance which lead to fears and suspicions of being dominated forever by the minority groups. This fear made people like Moi --the non KLAs, form KADU and root for Majimbo! At independece in 1963/64. When Moi assumed power as a KANU man, he ruthlessy united all the subsets of the Kalenjin nation, and one morning after a census, the nation woke up to find an ethnic alliance called the... [KAMETUSA??] bigger than the KLL [the big three: Kikuyu, Luhya, Luo]. There are some hansard copies from the 60s worth reading for those who do not remember we have been here before! History may repeat itself as farce in the books, in reality I think it repeats itself with a brutality even more fresh! After ridiculing tribal alliaces of the G7 and the rest as having no ideology and solutions, now leading ODM idiots come up with a blueprint for gikuyu-luo domination! [Mudavadi is dead ?] Ronald Ngala 1962: KANU is the formula for the big tribes to achieve power, share it amongst themselves, and dominate the small ones forever. This is why we want Majimbo!
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Post by Mobimba on Feb 7, 2012 20:45:35 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu,
Raila's 'town hall meeting concept' has not had much traction in Kenya… kinda like a new concept. You incorrectly expected a euphoric mini rally where attendees somersault for attention and blessings. These are typically low key 'one on one' affairs conducted in a genteel manner with no fanfare. Much discussed is localized and only limited sound bytes (Luo-Kikuyu peace) reach the media.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 7, 2012 20:45:44 GMT 3
Raila Calls For Kikuyu - Luo United Vote
By Mosoku GeoffrreyPublic Works minister Dalmas Otieno y esterday said that history has proven that when the two communities vote in one direction, the country experiences peace. “The day the Kikuyu and Luo think in the same line, the country goes that way. The day they are in different directions, the country is paralysed. We must unite these two communities,” Otieno said. it used to be called the KLA, the Kikuyu Luo Alliance! And it was the alliance which lead to fears and suspicions of being dominated forever by the minority groups. This fear made people like Moi --the non KLAs, form KADU and root for Majimbo! At independece in 1963/64. When Moi assumed power as a KANU man, he ruthlessy united all the subsets of the Kalenjin nation, and one morning after a census, the nation woke up to find an ethnic alliance called the... [KAMETUSA??] bigger than the KLL [the big three: Kikuyu, Luhya, Luo]. There are some hansard copies from the 60s worth reading for those who do not remember we have been here before! History may repeat itself as farce in the books, in reality I think it repeats itself with a brutality even more fresh! After ridiculing tribal alliaces of the G7 and the rest as having no ideology and solutions, now leading ODM idiots come up with a blueprint for gikuyu-luo domination! [Mudavadi is dead ?] Ronald Ngala 1962: KANU is the formula for the big tribes to achieve power, share it amongst themselves, and dominate the small ones forever. This is why we want Majimbo!jakaswanga, Calm down. It is always good to read multiple sources of information before making "authoritative" statements. This story has been out since yesterday in all media. I am sure since there was no statement about "Luo Kikuyu" vote most of you ignored it. Now the Star sensationally talks about "Luo/Kikuyu" vote which Raila actually never mentioned and we have folks jumping out of the wood works with all sorts of theories and skewed history lectures. Raila actually talked about the fact that he has no personal enemity towards Kikuyus and his father Jaramogi whom many percieve as an enemy of Kikuyus never had any tribal differences with Kenyatta. They differed on land issues. Try accessing the story from different sources and you will see the folly of being duped by the Star. Of course that was the whole idea of the Star writer. Get some people worked up and to hell with the facts of what happened at the meeting.
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Post by phil on Feb 7, 2012 23:30:17 GMT 3
There does not seem to be much coming from the so called town hall meetings (whatever that means). Apart from the venom being spewed by the likes of Ntimama and the ever confused Nkaissery (by the way is he supporting Saitoti or Raila?), there is nothing to write home about. Since we know that Uhuru, Kalonzo and Ruto just love to clone Raila and whatever he does, what will you say when they start they own town-hall meetings with rented delegates (given none of them has undertaken any party grassroot elections)? Ntimama and Nkaiserry are both elected ODM delegates my friend. They have rightful basis for commenting on party matters and participating in formulating policies for the party. What basis do you, a fifth rate blogger at Jukwaa and one who's totally blinded by ICC fugitives, have to comment about internal ODM affairs? Spare us this holier than though attitude Mwalimu and tell us exactly what your party URP intends to do for us Kenyans if they are elected to form government. Copy-pasted utopian economic papers like those read at Bomas have been forgotten and buried even before the party launches its elections. Havent they?
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Post by kamalet on Feb 8, 2012 0:06:45 GMT 3
Phil
Actually the good General has been seen backing Saitoti for president so our head teacher is on the mark when he calls Nkaissery confused.
As for the town hall meetings - I do not think they are.
And then meeting ODM delegates - they look pretty much like public rallies being held in a stadium - perhaps calling it ODM members makes a bit more sense.
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Post by danieldotwaweru on Feb 8, 2012 2:40:35 GMT 3
Raila Calls For Kikuyu - Luo United Vote By Mosoku GeoffrreyPublic Works minister Dalmas Otieno y esterday said that history has proven that when the two communities vote in one direction, the country experiences peace. “The day the Kikuyu and Luo think in the same line, the country goes that way. The day they are in different directions, the country is paralysed. We must unite these two communities,” Otieno said. it used to be called the KLA, the Kikuyu Luo Alliance! And it was the alliance which lead to fears and suspicions of being dominated forever by the minority groups. This fear made people like Moi --the non KLAs, form KADU and root for Majimbo! At independece in 1963/64. When Moi assumed power as a KANU man, he ruthlessy united all the subsets of the Kalenjin nation, and one morning after a census, the nation woke up to find an ethnic alliance called the... [KAMETUSA??] bigger than the KLL [the big three: Kikuyu, Luhya, Luo]. There are some hansard copies from the 60s worth reading for those who do not remember we have been here before! History may repeat itself as farce in the books, in reality I think it repeats itself with a brutality even more fresh! After ridiculing tribal alliaces of the G7 and the rest as having no ideology and solutions, now leading ODM idiots come up with a blueprint for gikuyu-luo domination! [Mudavadi is dead ?] Ronald Ngala 1962: KANU is the formula for the big tribes to achieve power, share it amongst themselves, and dominate the small ones forever. This is why we want Majimbo! The history seems considerably more complicated than you're letting on. First, the fear of bigger tribes was not a free-standing motivation. It was very carefully nurtured by the colonial order (see p. 50ish of I Say To You for interesting discussion of the role of colonial propaganda in the creation of Kalenjin identity.) Second, the fear-of-big-tribes reasoning doesn't explain the composition of KADU very well: if membership was for small tribes, then what was Masinde Muliro doing as a key member of KADU? Nor does it explain the ethnic groups we have now. Why form a Kalenjin grouping, rather than amalgamate the Nandi-speaking tribesas they were sometimes called in the pastwith the Luhya? The Luhya were a marginally older ethnic constituency, weren't they? One sensible reply to that question is that having a dependable ethnic constituency was a mighty boon to Moi's career.
ODM is doing as it does because it's a bunch of Kenyan politicians. Remember that almost as soon as FORD formed, they put together a national delegates conference, national steering committee, national executive committee etc. In short, they replicated the structure of KANU. Likewise, ODM is doing what comes naturally.
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Post by danieldotwaweru on Feb 8, 2012 3:21:22 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu, Raila's 'town hall meeting concept' has not had much traction in Kenya… kinda like a new concept. You incorrectly expected a euphoric mini rally where attendees somersault for attention and blessings. These are typically low key 'one on one' affairs conducted in a genteel manner with no fanfare. Much discussed is localized and only limited sound bytes (Luo-Kikuyu peace) reach the media. Not sure about that. Haugerud (The Culture of Politics in Modern Kenya) argues convincingly that barazas and such have been pretty important and durableyou might even say they have traction. Maybe barazas aren't exactly similar to town halls, but they're sufficiently similar to make life difficult for your claim.
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Post by einstein on Feb 8, 2012 5:44:43 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu, Raila's 'town hall meeting concept' has not had much traction in Kenya… kinda like a new concept. You incorrectly expected a euphoric mini rally where attendees somersault for attention and blessings. These are typically low key 'one on one' affairs conducted in a genteel manner with no fanfare. Much discussed is localized and only limited sound bytes (Luo-Kikuyu peace) reach the media. Not sure about that. Haugerud (The Culture of Politics in Modern Kenya) argues convincingly that barazas and such have been pretty important and durableyou might even say they have traction. Maybe barazas aren't exactly similar to town halls, but they're sufficiently similar to make life difficult for your claim.
OO,Do you really think Jukwaa deserves ALL this baseless propaganda from Danielwaweru or don't you think that Jukwaa deserves better? I personally believe that Danielwaweru has enough fora in which to propagate his beliefs well apart from Jukwaa. Don't you sense in Danielwaweru a deeply deranged character who sternly believes that Jukwaa as a forum and ODM singularly as a party and by extension ODM members of Jukwaa, rather than individuals in Kenya, are the groups that are responsible for what he underwent through the PEV? I would not mind Danielwaweru's crusade if he attacked both sides of the political divide viz-a-viz PEV, but his constant heaping of blames on only one side of that divide is NOT acceptable to me especially after ICC proved that both sides of the political divide were involved in the mayhem! Now, your responsibility as the admin MUST be to decide on who is genuinely debating issues as opposed to who is out to spread propaganda courtesy of this esteemed board. If you asked me, I'm currently already considering my options as far as my Jukwaa membership is concerned. I refuse to be a party to a club of hate-mongers. I cannot accept to debate or read from repeat hate-mongers, intentional propagandists, pathological thread hijackers, and possibly hired and well-paid mercenary whose purpose is solely to disrupt meaningful discussions on fora that their paymasters would like to get crippled! Or is this the meaning of freedom of expression in our brand new constitution!? So, folks are free to say %&$§ everywhere they wanna say %&$§!!! Really??? Folks have a very wide choice of fora out there, don't they? So why Jukwaa??? I pray and hope that you heard me!!
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Post by johns on Feb 8, 2012 8:21:24 GMT 3
Not sure about that. Haugerud (The Culture of Politics in Modern Kenya) argues convincingly that barazas and such have been pretty important and durableyou might even say they have traction. Maybe barazas aren't exactly similar to town halls, but they're sufficiently similar to make life difficult for your claim.
OO,Do you really think Jukwaa deserves ALL this baseless propaganda from Danielwaweru or don't you think that Jukwaa deserves better? I personally believe that Danielwaweru has enough fora in which to propagate his beliefs well apart from Jukwaa. Don't you sense in Danielwaweru a deeply deranged character who sternly believes that Jukwaa as a forum and ODM singularly as a party and by extension ODM members of Jukwaa, rather than individuals in Kenya, are the groups that are responsible for what he underwent through the PEV? I would not mind Danielwaweru's crusade if he attacked both sides of the political divide viz-a-viz PEV, but his constant heaping of blames on only one side of that divide is NOT acceptable to me especially after ICC proved that both sides of the political divide were involved in the mayhem! Now, your responsibility as the admin MUST be to decide on who is genuinely debating issues as opposed to who is out to spread propaganda courtesy of this esteemed board. If you asked me, I'm currently already considering my options as far as my Jukwaa membership is concerned. I refuse to be a party to a club of hate-mongers. I cannot accept to debate or read from repeat hate-mongers, intentional propagandists, pathological thread hijackers, and possibly hired and well-paid mercenary whose purpose is solely to disrupt meaningful discussions on fora that their paymasters would like to get crippled! Or is this the meaning of freedom of expression in our brand new constitution!? So, folks are free to say %&$§ everywhere they wanna say %&$§!!! Really??? Folks have a very wide choice of fora out there, don't they? So why Jukwaa??? I pray and hope that you heard me!! Einstein, Don't you ever get tired of playing snitch all the time? So now that you have reported him what would you like OO to do about him.
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Post by danieldotwaweru on Feb 8, 2012 8:23:19 GMT 3
Don't you sense in Danielwaweru a deeply deranged character who sternly believes that Jukwaa and by extension ODM members of Jukwaa, rather than individuals, are the groups that are responsible for what he underwent through the PEV? I would not mind Danielwaweru's crusade if he attacked all sides of the political divide viz-a-viz PEV, but his constant heaping of blames on only one side of that divide is NOT acceptable to me especially after ICC proved that both sides of the political divide were involved in the mayhem! I've distinguished collective, corporate and individual responsibility a number of times. You seem unable or unwilling to attend to the distinction I drew between party responsibility for the crimeswhich I take to be sufficiently obvious not to warrant further discussionand individual responsibility for the doings of the party. To recap: the party as an organisation is corporately responsible for the mass killing which it planned and paid for. The party's corporate responsibility doesn't entail that each individual member is also individually responsible for those actions. (An army can be corporately responsible for war crimes, but not every member of the army is culpable to the same degree, or even at all.)
ODM deserves blame because it planned, paid for and perpetrated the violence over a long period. While its opposition certainly participated in violence, this was reactiveit came after, and was unbacked by the sort of extensive planning and malice evinced in, ODM's effortsit was briefer than ODM violence, all while lacking comparable extent or intensity. Further, ODMers publicly, frequently, and vehemently defended their set of killings; in a way which lacks a parallel on the opposing side. After the violence, I talked to and debated many of them: the vast majority were completely unrepentant, and a smaller group were quite keen on a second round. Nor is this an idiosyncratic finding: respectable NGO surveys have found as much. Perhaps you don't believe me, in which case you'll want to read mimimzalendo's contributions on this very forum. Alternatively, search the archives with the key word Lesotho and see what pops up.
This isn't to say that the PNU/Mungiki killings are any less crimes against humanity; what's false is your assumption that the crimes were equally bad, and so ought to be condemned equally.
I'm not sure if you remain reachable on this issue. You once indicated that you had some German. After the violence kicked off in earnest, someone passed me Karl Jaspers' The Question of German Guilt. I found it useful. Maybe you will too.
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