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Post by Omwenga on Mar 16, 2012 21:21:59 GMT 3
Omwenga, given that Kibaki flip flopped (aka, I was for it before I was against it) in the very same sentence, we have to assume he isn't for elections in December but in the year "two, zero, one, three" as he definitively stated in his trademark disjointed manner. It's therefore up to Raila to push the will of the people before the ruling class get their way. He was meant to be "the people's president" after all, n'est pas? Unless, ofcourse, he wants to leave the glory to Martha Karua who's on the right side of history on this issue. b6k,I agree with you Raila must as usual provide leadership in accordance to the will of the people and have this matter settled and as soon as possible. I am in the meantime also urging Kibaki to do the right thing in President Kibaki Must Put Country First And Agree To December 2012 Elections, omwenga.com/2012/03/16/president-kibaki-must-put-country-first-and-agree-to-december-2012-elections/ which I copy and paste here as follows: The other day, President Kibaki clearly said to the relief of everyone that elections will be held at the end of this year, which everyone understood to mean December. Without missing a beat, however, the president quickly retracted and said the elections will be held in March 2013, citing the constitutional court ruling. Kibaki’s pronouncement is troubling and quite frankly strange because it is unheard of for a president to cite a ruling of a lower court for a proposition when that ruling itself is on appeal. The constitutional court ruling is not final and is therefore not binding on anyone and if the president agrees with it, he has not given us any reason why he only agrees with half of the ruling and not the other half. The court gave us a confusing two part ruling in which it erroneously ruled that the correct election date is March 2013 while at the same time ruling that the elections can be held this year only if the coalition partners agree to dissolve the coalition triggering an election 60 days upon dissolution of the government. Yet, to hear Kibaki say it, the court has ruled that the elections shall be held in March 2013 and there is nothing he or anyone can do about it. This is obviously not the case. Even assuming for a moment that the constitutional ruling can withstand scrutiny on appeal and be affirmed as is, the prevailing wisdom and consensus in the country is that elections must be held this year so it would behoove the president and prime minister to sit down and agree on a date to dissolve the coalition government and set in motion a process to hold elections latest by December. It is obvious Kibaki is hardly ever enthusiastic in consulting with the PM on any of these issues but much as he may not wish to, we are now a country where the rule of law is paramount and cannot be ignored for the sake of advancing narrow and selfish political and personal interests. The constitutional mandate for consultation on key issues such as this is there to ensure our top leadership acts in unison in the interest of our country, and for no other purpose or gain. But even this requirement for dissolving the government to trigger new elections is cumbersome and unnecessary. The Supreme Court has the power to properly interpret the constitution and authoritatively set the election date as December 2012 and no torturing of the constitution is needed to reach that conclusion as was obviously the case in the constitutional court erroneously reaching its conclusion about the election date being 2013. The constitutional court essentially decided to ignore several provisions in the main body of the constitution and entirely based its decision on the provisions of the Sixth Schedule which it tortured in its legal analysis to reach its conclusion, complete with reliance on the legal doctrine of generalibus specialia derogant, which it wrongly applied as to the date issue. The Supreme Court can fix this if and when the case gets to it, if it so choses but, in the event it agrees with the constitutional court, then either the president and prime minister must agree to dissolve the government as per the second part of the constitutional court ruling and give is a date certain in 2012 or Parliament must enact a law setting the date for December. We simply must not have election date extended to March 2013 and this notwithstanding the fact members of parliament will stand to gain monetarily with a prolonged parliament life and certainly it should be of no consequence what impact a prolonged presidency may or may not have on ICC cases as those rooting for a March 2013 naively seem to believe. A December 2012 date is desirable and a majority or even super majority of Kenyans favor this date for several reasons: First, December is simply the month we as Kenyans have traditionally held our general elections and even though the constitution set the new election date on the second Tuesday in August in every fifth year,” August elections this year is simply an impossibility therefore either by interpretation or statute, the date must remain in December. Second, although the constitution provides for diaspora voting, it is unlikely the mechanisms will be in place for such voting this election circle so having a December election is preferable for Kenyans living in the diaspora as this is the only time in the year those willing and able to can make arrangements to travel to Kenya for the holidays as well as to vote. Third, there is no compelling reason elections must be held in March other than extending the president’s term of office by and among those who see some advantage in doing so. In sum, we must have elections in 2012 and the best thing the president should do for the sake of the country and specifically to avoid further uncertainty as to election date is simply agree to a December date and the PM having already agreed to this, this should be as good as done. There is no reason to continue with this soon to be unnecessary uncertainty which can quickly morph into irresponsible leadership, if not worse. There are certain things not worth putting our country through the wringer for and this is clearly one of them. Let’s have elections the soonest possible and once the people have spoken, usher in a new government hopefully to take us in a new path to progress and prosperity but any delay in getting to those elections shall clearly be seen as an effort to scheme against the people for the benefit of a few and that cannot be acceptable.
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 16, 2012 21:29:40 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Mar 16, 2012 22:41:03 GMT 3
Omwenga, thanks. I actually hadn't seen it yet. This is good of Raila to get it out there. December should be the latest we go to the polls & the 17th in particular is fine.
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Post by phil on Mar 16, 2012 22:47:51 GMT 3
Hassan and his fellow IEBC Commissioners are up to no good. They have been holed up in meetings all day today. Not sure if they met the two principals as planned.
And the plan is that tomorrow, at Laico Regency Hotel Nairobi, at 11am sharp, is to announce a date for the general elections.
Grapevine has it that the general election date they will give for the 4th of March 2013. (Do not quote me!)
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Post by phil on Mar 16, 2012 22:54:47 GMT 3
More grapevine on the IEBC press conference tomorrow is that the principals have agreed to dissolve the GCG on 18th Oct to pave way for 18 Dec 2012 General Elections. (Wont be breaking news)
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Post by phil on Mar 16, 2012 23:03:49 GMT 3
More grapevine on the IEBC press conference tomorrow is that the principals have agreed to dissolve the GCG on 18th Oct to pave way for 18 Dec 2012 General Elections. (Wont be breaking news) THIS IS IT! We go to elections on 18th December 2012.
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Post by tnk on Mar 17, 2012 1:24:59 GMT 3
More grapevine on the IEBC press conference tomorrow is that the principals have agreed to dissolve the GCG on 18th Oct to pave way for 18 Dec 2012 General Elections. (Wont be breaking news) THIS IS IT! We go to elections on 18th December 2012. phil kindly update when you see the written confirmation. i foresee some resistance from mps and a flip flop possible
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Post by b6k on Mar 17, 2012 9:08:49 GMT 3
THIS IS IT! We go to elections on 18th December 2012. phil kindly update when you see the written confirmation. i foresee some resistance from mps and a flip flop possible TNK, you're right. We need more proof that December 18th is indeed the election date. As Omwenga pointed out Kibaki will be in no hurry to overrule the March 2013 date provided to him on a silver platter even if he is disingenuously only considering one part (& the wrong end I should add) of the constitutional court's ruling. This provides him the guise of abiding by the rule of law even whilst contravening the law. Given that the PEV brought about a situation where we operated without a government for quite a while, the only date we should consider is the date of Kibaki's swearing in ceremony. This is the only concrete date we can operate with since all dates provide Kibaki with grey areas he can exploit to extend his presidency: 1) Kibaki sworn in December 30, 2007 2) Kibaki appoints PNU half of cabinet in January 8, 2008 3) MP's sworn in January 15, 2008 4) GCG sworn in April 17, 2008 With all these dates to play around with Kibaki can run circles around us for sometime to come. The constitutional courts ruling at least hems him in to not go beyond March 2013. Let us not forget that even Adolf Hitler assumed power constitutionally. Our goal should be to force him to dissolve the GCG which ought to have been an interim government with elections held in 2009 had the original ODM game plan been adhered to, but I digress
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 17, 2012 10:51:00 GMT 3
phil kindly update when you see the written confirmation. i foresee some resistance from mps and a flip flop possible TNK, you're right. We need more proof that December 18th is indeed the election date. As Omwenga pointed out Kibaki will be in no hurry to overrule the March 2013 date provided to him on a silver platter even if he is disingenuously only considering one part (& the wrong end I should add) of the constitutional court's ruling. This provides him the guise of abiding by the rule of law even whilst contravening the law. Given that the PEV brought about a situation where we operated without a government for quite a while, the only date we should consider is the date of Kibaki's swearing in ceremony. This is the only concrete date we can operate with since all dates provide Kibaki with grey areas he can exploit to extend his presidency: 1) Kibaki sworn in December 30, 2007 2) Kibaki appoints PNU half of cabinet in January 8, 2008 3) MP's sworn in January 15, 2008 4) GCG sworn in April 17, 2008 With all these dates to play around with Kibaki can run circles around us for sometime to come. The constitutional courts ruling at least hems him in to not go beyond March 2013. Let us not forget that even Adolf Hitler assumed power constitutionally. Our goal should be to force him to dissolve the GCG which ought to have been an interim government with elections held in 2009 had the original ODM game plan been adhered to, but I digress b6k, I am generally with you on this one. Meanwhile, ODM has issued the following statement: ODM CALLS FOR DECEMBER 2012 GENERAL ELECTION. The Kenyan people prefer that the next General Election be held in December, preferably on the 17th of December 2012 as the Cabinet had previously recommended. This will be in line with the recent High Court ruling, the practice since 1992 with the onset of multiparty politics and the fact that the date suits the calender of ordinary mwananchi. The Orange Democratic Movement urges all ODM leaders, members and supporters and the general public to support this stand. The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission – IEBC should avoid any temptation of serving any sectarian interests through extension of the life of the coalition government by exploiting lacuna’s in the law and fixing the date in March 2013. The IEBC should respect the wishes of majority Kenyans who want the elections held in December 2012 to clear with the exercise and carry on with the preparations for the new year i.e looking for school fees for their children, farming etc. Hon. Prof. P. Anyang’ Nyong’o. Secretary General, ODM. 17/03/2012
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 17, 2012 11:12:54 GMT 3
b6k, I am generally with you on this one. Meanwhile, ODM has issued the following statement: ODM CALLS FOR DECEMBER 2012 GENERAL ELECTION. The Kenyan people prefer that the next General Election be held in December, preferably on the 17th of December 2012 as the Cabinet had previously recommended. This will be in line with the recent High Court ruling, the practice since 1992 with the onset of multiparty politics and the fact that the date suits the calender of ordinary mwananchi. The Orange Democratic Movement urges all ODM leaders, members and supporters and the general public to support this stand. The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission – IEBC should avoid any temptation of serving any sectarian interests through extension of the life of the coalition government by exploiting lacuna’s in the law and fixing the date in March 2013. The IEBC should respect the wishes of majority Kenyans who want the elections held in December 2012 to clear with the exercise and carry on with the preparations for the new year i.e looking for school fees for their children, farming etc. Hon. Prof. P. Anyang’ Nyong’o. Secretary General, ODM. 17/03/2012 omwengaThis is a surprise to me: THE CABINET HAD RECOMMENDED 17TH december? I was not aware! were you, before this Nyong'o statement, aware of this cabinet position? Was this recommendation before the recent Kibaki gaffe? [A minister has since supported this march date too! By the way: Cabinet recommended to who? On such an important issue, is it not that the cabinet decision is then signed by the president, and communicated by Dr. Mutua, and if it needs to be put into law, then the responsible minister writes up a bill and presents it to parliament. And in this case there would be haste! So what is this again? Kibaki rescinded on the cabinet decision/recommendation? Effectively Nyong'o is callling for public mobilisation against the march date, and in effect setting a section of Kenyans up against the IEBC should that body go for the march date. Since ODM is in government and Nyong'o is in cabinet, this activism is perhaps better left to civil society. You do not run a government like that! Reminds me of Lumumba leading a demonstration to Orengo's office, and Orengo threatening to do the same! --anarchy, in Nyong'o's words!
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Post by b6k on Mar 17, 2012 11:15:17 GMT 3
Omwenga, unfortunately the IEBC have just announced the ridiculous date of Monday March 4th, 2013. Absolutely ridiculous!
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 17, 2012 11:53:57 GMT 3
b6k, I am generally with you on this one. Meanwhile, ODM has issued the following statement: ODM CALLS FOR DECEMBER 2012 GENERAL ELECTION. The Kenyan people prefer that the next General Election be held in December, preferably on the 17th of December 2012 as the Cabinet had previously recommended. This will be in line with the recent High Court ruling, the practice since 1992 with the onset of multiparty politics and the fact that the date suits the calender of ordinary mwananchi. The Orange Democratic Movement urges all ODM leaders, members and supporters and the general public to support this stand. The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission – IEBC should avoid any temptation of serving any sectarian interests through extension of the life of the coalition government by exploiting lacuna’s in the law and fixing the date in March 2013. The IEBC should respect the wishes of majority Kenyans who want the elections held in December 2012 to clear with the exercise and carry on with the preparations for the new year i.e looking for school fees for their children, farming etc. Hon. Prof. P. Anyang’ Nyong’o. Secretary General, ODM. 17/03/2012 omwengaThis is a surprise to me: THE CABINET HAD RECOMMENDED 17TH december? I was not aware! were you, before this Nyong'o statement, aware of this cabinet position? Was this recommendation before the recent Kibaki gaffe? [A minister has since supported this march date too! By the way: Cabinet recommended to who? On such an important issue, is it not that the cabinet decision is then signed by the president, and communicated by Dr. Mutua, and if it needs to be put into law, then the responsible minister writes up a bill and presents it to parliament. And in this case there would be haste! So what is this again? Kibaki rescinded on the cabinet decision/recommendation? Effectively Nyong'o is callling for public mobilisation against the march date, and in effect setting a section of Kenyans up against the IEBC should that body go for the march date. Since ODM is in government and Nyong'o is in cabinet, this activism is perhaps better left to civil society. You do not run a government like that! Reminds me of Lumumba leading a demonstration to Orengo's office, and Orengo threatening to do the same! --anarchy, in Nyong'o's words! Jakaswanga,
My understanding is the Cabinet agreed to a December 17 date, which was included in a bill languishing somewhere between the cabinet and Parliament. What ODM has done in issuing the statement is proper and distinguishable from the events you cite because the public must know where the party stands on the date issue. Indeed, even the PM is fully within his right if and when he lets the public know that he is in disagreement with the president as he should; that's not anarchy but the only way the existing government must function when things reach that point.
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 17, 2012 11:56:52 GMT 3
Omwenga, unfortunately the IEBC have just announced the ridiculous date of Monday March 4th, 2013. Absolutely ridiculous! b6k,IEBC is unnecessarily and prematurely injecting itself in this. I would echo what Adongo said about the body and its usurping authority it does not have. Please note I would not be as critical were the body to announce a December date. ;D
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Post by b6k on Mar 17, 2012 12:01:01 GMT 3
omwengaThis is a surprise to me: THE CABINET HAD RECOMMENDED 17TH december? I was not aware! were you, before this Nyong'o statement, aware of this cabinet position? Was this recommendation before the recent Kibaki gaffe? [A minister has since supported this march date too! By the way: Cabinet recommended to who? On such an important issue, is it not that the cabinet decision is then signed by the president, and communicated by Dr. Mutua, and if it needs to be put into law, then the responsible minister writes up a bill and presents it to parliament. And in this case there would be haste! So what is this again? Kibaki rescinded on the cabinet decision/recommendation? Effectively Nyong'o is callling for public mobilisation against the march date, and in effect setting a section of Kenyans up against the IEBC should that body go for the march date. Since ODM is in government and Nyong'o is in cabinet, this activism is perhaps better left to civil society. You do not run a government like that! Reminds me of Lumumba leading a demonstration to Orengo's office, and Orengo threatening to do the same! --anarchy, in Nyong'o's words! Jakaswanga, the December 17th date agreed to by cabinet was in the public domain ages ago. The problem is it was never given the type of prominent reporting or positioning (eg. Headline news item) such a critical announcement required. There is video footage of Gumo & the likes outting the date a while back that may find its way to Youtube. On the "activism" charge, I beg to differ. This is precisely the time for ODM to have a call to arms & rekindle their activist credentials & bring the GCG down. This is the will of the people if the unscientific polls I saw are anything to go by. Both times the overwhelming majority (over 80% favored December polls). Some governments don't deserve to be run...just to be brought down.
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Post by b6k on Mar 17, 2012 12:05:28 GMT 3
Omwenga, unfortunately the IEBC have just announced the ridiculous date of Monday March 4th, 2013. Absolutely ridiculous! b6k,IEBC is unnecessarily and prematurely injecting itself in this. I would echo what Adongo said about the body and its usurping authority it does not have. Please note I would not be as critical were the body to announce a December date. ;D Hehehe. I agree with you in toto. I would go further by stating had they announced an August 2012 date I would've been totally in agreement with the IEBC
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Post by b6k on Mar 17, 2012 12:08:23 GMT 3
More grapevine on the IEBC press conference tomorrow is that the principals have agreed to dissolve the GCG on 18th Oct to pave way for 18 Dec 2012 General Elections. (Wont be breaking news) THIS IS IT! We go to elections on 18th December 2012. Phil, you really need to stop relying on Kumekucha as a reliable source
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 17, 2012 14:42:30 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, the December 17th date agreed to by cabinet was in the public domain ages ago. The problem is it was never given the type of prominent reporting or positioning (eg. Headline news item) such a critical announcement required. There is video footage of Gumo & the likes outting the date a while back that may find its way to Youtube. On the "activism" charge, I beg to differ. This is precisely the time for ODM to have a call to arms & rekindle their activist credentials & bring the GCG down. This is the will of the people if the unscientific polls I saw are anything to go by. Both times the overwhelming majority (over 80% favored December polls). Some governments don't deserve to be run...just to be brought down. b6kIf it was all along in the public domain, this 17th dec, and it reflected a majority cabinet will, why have they, the two principals/comedians, allowed all these rudderless ship scenario, where even the IEBC gave them an ultimatum: state the date or we do it for you! Who is fooling who in the shadows? Even if the date was not given headline bolds, surely the IEBC would, by virtue of her business and mandate, have been aware of the cabinet decision! --even if it was not conveyed through official channels! And so too the Nyachaye body, which should take a look at all new bills partaining to the new constitution, if not actually sitting in on writing them! EVERYBODY knew all along, and there was no controversy. But... from some of the commentry I read on Jukwaa, it would appear I was not the only one ignorant of the fact of a cabinet position! otherwise Jukwaa surely would have pointed out to the IEBC that they should shut up as the date was already agreed on, and just awaiting a parliamentary airing! NB: On some governments deserving a send-home riot order first-thing amongst anything else, I am with you! The Raila-Kibaki show called the GCG belonged to the ash heap of history [see the illegal dandora gharbage site] the moment the new constitution was promulgated. I should be glad to help flush it down the Nairobi river!
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 17, 2012 15:00:38 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,
My understanding is the Cabinet agreed to a December 17 date, which was included in a bill languishing somewhere between the cabinet and Parliament. What ODM has done in issuing the statement is proper and distinguishable from the events you cite because the public must know where the party stands on the date issue. Indeed, even the PM is fully within his right if and when he lets the public know that he is in disagreement with the president as he should; that's not anarchy but the only way the existing government must function when things reach that point. Omwenga1. As you read what I write below, please bear in mind what I have told b6k, that I am with him that the GCG would better go soonest than laters! Even december is too far! ..But... Effectively the ODM has officially dissociated herself from the date set by the IEBC! The ODM, being the home of a leading candidate, and presumably an interpreter of a majority will in the country at present, has by this statement withdrawn her confidence from the IEBC! In public perception now, especially that section spoken for by the ODM, an idea is now planted in their minds, that the IEBC is a willing instrument of Kibaki's antics. [issued the following statement: ODM CALLS FOR DECEMBER 2012 GENERAL ELECTION. The Kenyan people prefer that the next General Election be held in December, preferably on the 17th of December 2012 as the Cabinet had previously recommended. This will be in line with the recent High Court ruling, the practice since 1992 with the onset of multiparty politics and the fact that the date suits the calender of ordinary mwananchi. The Orange Democratic Movement urges all ODM leaders, members and supporters and the general public to support this stand. The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission – IEBC should avoid any temptation of serving any sectarian interests through extension of the life of the coalition government by exploiting lacuna’s in the law and fixing the date in March 2013.The IEBC should respect the wishes of majority Kenyans who want the elections held in December 2012 to clear with the exercise and carry on with the preparations for the new year i.e looking for school fees for their children, farming etc. Hon. Prof. P. Anyang’ Nyong’o. Secretary General, ODM. 17/03/2012 Omwenga,Nyong'o accuses the IEBC of NOT RESPECTING THE MAJORITY WISH OF KENYANS! Sir, what do you expect us to do with a body which does not respect the majority wish? Is than not the old commission of Kivuitu? the coup maker! IEBC should avoid the temptation to serve sectarian interests: Sir, does this not mean a direct assault on the credibility of the IEBC? With the coming elections being so decisive, who wants a prejudiced body doing the counting of votes? Such must be stopped! not so? Nyong'o is too intelligent not to know the consequences of his utterances. There is a writing on the wall. I think I read it pretty good.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Mar 17, 2012 15:23:05 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,
The December 17th date has been in the news for a while as a cabinet proposition. However, for it to work, one of two things had to happen: either, amend the constitution to allow for the new date, or kibaki and raila agree to end the coalition government at least 60 days before.
The constitutional amendment bill never received favors and as we speak Mutula has decided to withdraw it from bunge. The house was literally hostile to the proposal including the same ODM that is now issuing statements. On the other hand, the question arose as to who will end life of bunge even if the principals ended the coalition government given that bunge has its, own life in the new constitution.
Now, what IEBC has done, is to go for a date that neither kibaki, raila nor bunge have control over because either way, the life of the current bunge will have ended naturally by then as per the court ruling and the constitution. I therefore do not see why we should be blaming IEBC on this. Note this date is not caste in stone, if the courts rule otherwise, IEBC will adjust accordingly, but for now we shall live with the March 4 date, it is very constitutional after all.
I have read ODM's statement it does not tell us how the december date will be achieved knowing well that the party never outrightly supported this position when it mattered most, on the floor of the house given their majority in bunge. To me therefore their statement remains politics as usual, ODM's usual double speak.
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 17, 2012 16:19:16 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,
My understanding is the Cabinet agreed to a December 17 date, which was included in a bill languishing somewhere between the cabinet and Parliament. What ODM has done in issuing the statement is proper and distinguishable from the events you cite because the public must know where the party stands on the date issue. Indeed, even the PM is fully within his right if and when he lets the public know that he is in disagreement with the president as he should; that's not anarchy but the only way the existing government must function when things reach that point. Omwenga1. As you read what I write below, please bear in mind what I have told b6k, that I am with him that the GCG would better go soonest than laters! Even december is too far! ..But... Effectively the ODM has officially dissociated herself from the date set by the IEBC! The ODM, being the home of a leading candidate, and presumably an interpreter of a majority will in the country at present, has by this statement withdrawn her confidence from the IEBC! In public perception now, especially that section spoken for by the ODM, an idea is now planted in their minds, that the IEBC is a willing instrument of Kibaki's antics. [issued the following statement: ODM CALLS FOR DECEMBER 2012 GENERAL ELECTION. The Kenyan people prefer that the next General Election be held in December, preferably on the 17th of December 2012 as the Cabinet had previously recommended. This will be in line with the recent High Court ruling, the practice since 1992 with the onset of multiparty politics and the fact that the date suits the calender of ordinary mwananchi. The Orange Democratic Movement urges all ODM leaders, members and supporters and the general public to support this stand. The Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission – IEBC should avoid any temptation of serving any sectarian interests through extension of the life of the coalition government by exploiting lacuna’s in the law and fixing the date in March 2013.The IEBC should respect the wishes of majority Kenyans who want the elections held in December 2012 to clear with the exercise and carry on with the preparations for the new year i.e looking for school fees for their children, farming etc. Hon. Prof. P. Anyang’ Nyong’o. Secretary General, ODM. 17/03/2012 Omwenga,Nyong'o accuses the IEBC of NOT RESPECTING THE MAJORITY WISH OF KENYANS! Sir, what do you expect us to do with a body which does not respect the majority wish? Is than not the old commission of Kivuitu? the coup maker! IEBC should avoid the temptation to serve sectarian interests: Sir, does this not mean a direct assault on the credibility of the IEBC? With the coming elections being so decisive, who wants a prejudiced body doing the counting of votes? Such must be stopped! not so? Nyong'o is too intelligent not to know the consequences of his utterances. There is a writing on the wall. I think I read it pretty good. Jakaswanga,I believe we are on the same page and as regards the meaning of ODM differing with IEBC on the date or, conversely, IEBC agreeing with Kibaki, I said earlier IEBC's decision is both unnecessary and premature and if you take the unnecessary component alone, what I am saying is basically what you are alluding to and that is, Raila having publicly stated ODM's preferred date and Kibaki having obviously thus far refused to agree with the PM on the date and, indeed, Kibaki having declared his preference to be a March 2013 date, IEBC has essentially taken a position which can only be interpreted to mean it's not only willing and ready to inject itself politically into a matter it should not, it is is willing to do so on the side of Kibaki and that spells trouble ahead even before we embark on the suffrage--the only consolation is, we shall never have a Kivuitu pulled on us again, never! There are 1001 things that must be in consideration and be in place beyond IEBC to ensure this election is not tempered with in any way that would impact the outcome and that shall simply come to pass. BTW, just so it's clear, let me emphasize I am not at this time saying IEBC is compromised but I am saying it had better be careful how it handles itself before being judged as having lost neutrality even before we embark on suffrage.
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 17, 2012 16:26:22 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, The December 17th date has been in the news for a while as a cabinet proposition. However, for it to work, one of two things had to happen: either, amend the constitution to allow for the new date, or kibaki and raila agree to end the coalition government at least 60 days before. The constitutional amendment bill never received favors and as we speak Mutula has decided to withdraw it from bunge. The house was literally hostile to the proposal including the same ODM that is now issuing statements. On the other hand, the question arose as to who will end life of bunge even if the principals ended the coalition government given that bunge has its, own life in the new constitution. Now, what IEBC has done, is to go for a date that neither kibaki, raila nor bunge have control over because either way, the life of the current bunge will have ended naturally by then as per the court ruling and the constitution. I therefore do not see why we should be blaming IEBC on this. Note this date is not caste in stone, if the courts rule otherwise, IEBC will adjust accordingly, but for now we shall live with the March 4 date, it is very constitutional after all. I have read ODM's statement it does not tell us how the december date will be achieved knowing well that the party never outrightly supported this position when it mattered most, on the floor of the house given their majority in bunge. To me therefore their statement remains politics as usual, ODM's usual double speak. MwalimumkuuThank you for this expose. My software was a bit out of date on this one! For instance I had no idea that Kilonzo had actually been on the verge of tabling the bill for the 17th dec, but had to withdraw it in the face of multilateral hostility from both sides of what b6k calls MPIGS! Given that the two principals did not bother to come up with another scenario to resolve this pertinent issue, it follows that the ball moved on to other courts. One courts shied away from the decision too, but now the ball has found a player, namely IEBC. Power hates a vacuum, and if the captains are paralysed in indecision, somebody has to rise to the occasion, and make the decision to abandon ship, even if premature! IEBC I am sure chose the date they deemed least controversial. But with Nyong'os guerilla warning... I keep my powder dry!
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Post by nereah on Mar 17, 2012 19:21:52 GMT 3
six quick ones:
1.if i heard isaak hassan correctly, the electoral body can effectively conduct an election this year.agwambo has accepted.the only stumbling block now is mzee kibaki. that should be the news that the media goes to town with not that election will be held 2013.
2.kenyans have stated through numerous opinion polls that they want elections this year.its only mzee kibaki and his think alike, its seems who is not aware of this. the constitution vest in kenya the ultimate sovereignty of this country and if push come to shove, millions of signatures and legal mechanism can be effected to ensure the rouge political class heed to the wishes of the masses.
3.the 2013 date is impracticable for reasons that agwambo has ably explained but more importantly inimical if not adversarial to the regional tranquility and economic progress that the west expect of.kenya as the latest issue of east african newspaper explain in its cover story, is too critical that political uncertainty and subsequent risks like insecurity would be heightened with delayed elections or prolonged electioneering(for that's what this is )
4.the 2013 date is fine with odm but not popular with kenyans hence the need for the party to abide by the wishes of kenyans. for those who thought it would work against odm and raila(i have heard of the idle talk that once the december date passes,its only kibaki who would be exercising the constitutional authority untill the march election since the office of the prime minister would be constitutionally untenable),nothing can be further from truth.
5.elections are also economic stimulus i may argue and in kenya the daily nation had run a special supplement of those in this industry-from printers to communication agencies.many had deployed resources for the august elections and those bank loans would be renegotiated.
6.in addition to this are those like of our miguna miguna who were hoping to maximise on the electioneering season not only to make money but deal lethal blow to those they consider enemies.contracts will have to be renegotiated again.
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2012 20:46:07 GMT 3
six quick ones:
1.if i heard isaak hassan correctly, the electoral body can effectively conduct an election this year.agwambo has accepted.the only stumbling block now is mzee kibaki. that should be the news that the media goes to town with not that election will be held 2013.
2.kenyans have stated through numerous opinion polls that they want elections this year.its only mzee kibaki and his think alike, its seems who is not aware of this. the constitution vest in kenya the ultimate sovereignty of this country and if push come to shove, millions of signatures and legal mechanism can be effected to ensure the rouge political class heed to the wishes of the masses.
3.the 2013 date is impracticable for reasons that agwambo has ably explained but more importantly inimical if not adversarial to the regional tranquility and economic progress that the west expect of.kenya as the latest issue of east african newspaper explain in its cover story, is too critical that political uncertainty and subsequent risks like insecurity would be heightened with delayed elections or prolonged electioneering(for that's what this is )
4.the 2013 date is fine with odm but not popular with kenyans hence the need for the party to abide by the wishes of kenyans. for those who thought it would work against odm and raila(i have heard of the idle talk that once the december date passes,its only kibaki who would be exercising the constitutional authority untill the march election since the office of the prime minister would be constitutionally untenable),nothing can be further from truth.
5.elections are also economic stimulus i may argue and in kenya the daily nation had run a special supplement of those in this industry-from printers to communication agencies.many had deployed resources for the august elections and those bank loans would be renegotiated.
6.in addition to this are those like of our miguna miguna who were hoping to maximise on the electioneering season not only to make money but deal lethal blow to those they consider enemies.contracts will have to be renegotiated again.
Nereah, During the O.D.M. press conference Nyongo stated on behalf of the party that O.D.M. prefers a Dec Election though O.D.M. is not ready to leave the Coalotion government. The requirements were clear by the courts ruling for the elections to held in 2012 then it will be upon the 2 principles to dissolve the coalition government else it follows second option based on the courts judgement for electrol body to set the date within 60 days from the expiry of the term of the 10th Parliament. In the follow up to the subject matter Martha Karua suggested to O.D.M. If they mean what the say then they should go ahead and walkout from the coalition government by October thus dissolving the government and in return having a DEC 2012 election. It is crystal clear ODM a playing P.R. games with Kenyans .If they want a Dec 2012 and they can influence the dissolution of the coalition government as an equal partner like P.N.U . then it follows do that ? Taking the route of Consultation between Raila and Kibaki the end result will be the same dissolve coalition government by Oct-2012 to have a Dec-2012 General elections. Different routes same destination -the ball should be on ODMs court if they are that serious to have a Dec-2012 tgeneral election they should start the process rather than hoodwinking Kenyans but then again O.D.M. is just another ordinary Kenyan party ...........................
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 17, 2012 20:53:41 GMT 3
Election date elicits varied reactions Written By:KBC Reporters, Posted: Sat, Mar 17, 2012 The IEBC chairman cited unpreparedness for the elections this year by due to the yet to start voter registration The March 4 2013 date for general elections' decision by the Independent Electoral Boundaries Commission has elicited immediate sharp reactions with the political class split right in the middle. Prime Minister Raila Odinga hit out at the courts previous ruling arguing it goes against tradition insisting elections have always been held in December since the start of multipartyism in 1992. His argument comes even as the Vice President Kalonzo Musyoka pointed out though he would have preferred a December election Kenyans should remain united as there is still a window for the coalition partners to negotiate. Speaking at Gusii stadium during centenary celebrations for Roman Catholic church, diocese of Kisii, Raila faulted the Isaack Hassan led commission saying the date will disrupt learning programmes in schools. According to Raila, the controversial issue should be subjected to wide consultations with a view to fixing a new date for December this year. The IEBC chairman had cited unpreparedness for the elections this year by the IEBC due to yet to start voter registration, newly created constituencies and reluctance by the two principals to chart the way forward. Orange Democratic Movement says the decision by the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission to declare March 4th 2013 as the date of the next general election is illegal. ODM secretary General Anyang' Nyong'o termed the decision as premature saying the commission should have awaited the dissolution of the current parliament whose term expires in January 14th before announcing a date. However, Nyong'o ruled out any intentions by the party to pull out of the coalition government to pave way for elections this year. Narc Kenya party Martha Karua also opposed the IEBC date saying MP's will be making earnings illegally as their term will have expired by 30th December. Deputy Prime Minister and ODM Presidential contender Musalia Mudavadi says he would have to study the reasons advanced by the Independent Electoral and Boundaries Commission (IEBC) for settling on the 4th March, 2013 as the election date before giving his take. He however said Kenyans should focus more on the IEBC's preparations for the election which he said need to be well prepared to ensure they were free and fair. Elsewhere, Starehe MP Bishop Margaret Wanjiru backed the March date saying it will provide a chance for political parties to comply with the new constitution. She also cited enactment of bills by parliament, implementation of new electoral boundaries, voter registration and modalities to engage Kenyans in the Diaspora to vote as many considerations that require time. kbc.co.ke/news.asp?nid=75445
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 17, 2012 21:12:56 GMT 3
nowayhaha,
Please dig out the court ruling and read it. If you do, you will find out that the ruling is that a General Election can be held in 2012 if the principals mutually agree to dissolve the Grand Coalition Government(GCG). If that were to happen the elections would be held 60 days from the date of that dissolution. It is therefore nonsensical to say that one party pulling out of the GCG would put in process the election date. This matter was discussed here in Jukwaa extensively when many of us thought one party to the coalition can pull the gun. We learnt that is not the case. Both parties have to agree. That is the ruling.
The two principals have to agree and since Kibaki consciously or unconsciously has declared he will not agree to that and prefers an election March 2013, the IEBC has given him his wish. I don't know what that says about the alleged independence of the IEBC. I am sure about one thing. The IEBC made the announcement with blessings from State House. It seems the culture of the ECK will live with us for a very long time.
All said and done the election date will be determined by court rulings and may very well go all the way to the Supreme Court. Right now we are waiting for the ruling from the Court of Appeal regarding the previous ruling on the matter. That is why I think it was very inappropriate for for the IEBC to try fixing a date. They do not have any such mandate. But that is their choice. If they want to get into the politics of fixing an election date they are welcome. Politics has a lot of mud and if the IEBC want to join the mud wrestling they are free to do so and will have to live with the consequences.
As far as ODM goes, they would care less. The M.Ps want more money and more time in bunge. This date gives them just that. Kenyans are sick of their M.Ps and want them out. Giving the M.Ps more rope to hang themselves is not that bad. Just throw them out in December 2012 or March 2013, who cares.
Bottom line if the courts make rulings that are different from the IEBC date, IEBC has to conform to the court decisions. The most scary situation is where a court rules sometimes in October that the GE has to be done in 2012. The country would go into complete chaos. We can handle that I am sure. Kibaki's term extending beyond 5 years is going to be contested in court too. So prepare for whatever chaos may come along as you wait for march 2013 GE. That is the way our country works. It is not a big deal or is it?
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