euonyi
Full Member
Me, myself and I
Posts: 179
|
Post by euonyi on Feb 27, 2013 15:54:18 GMT 3
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Feb 27, 2013 17:18:28 GMT 3
This is very unhelpful and borders on hate-speech. Let's try and do a bit better, please.
|
|
|
Post by joblesscorner on Feb 27, 2013 17:28:59 GMT 3
Jukwaa,
Omwenga has been accompanying Raila for the last few days campaigning. Rather than selling his visions, he is giving as HATE SPEECH, he must have seen something on the ground. Desperado times kweli.....
|
|
|
Post by Omwenga on Feb 27, 2013 17:49:06 GMT 3
This is very unhelpful and borders on hate-speech. Let's try and do a bit better, please. Otis, There are people who will say this is "hate speech" or "borders on hate speech" and I wouldn't be surprised because they don't know what either is. You, I am surprised. After Raila is sworn and the new government is in place, one of the issues that must be addressed in conjunction with the continuing reformed legal system, is what all these things are or mean. There is a lot of bandying and throwing around legal terminologies and other terms of art by people who genuinely don't know what they are other than what they have conjured in their minds based on nothing beyond what they have heard. That day shall come to pass sooner than later.
|
|
|
Post by abdulmote on Feb 27, 2013 17:53:17 GMT 3
What some seem to forget is that the Presidency is simply and purely an elective post. A simple democratic right guaranteed under the constitution. Indeed, I am very uncomfortable with this idea that "ethnicity" should have anything to do with where the president comes from. If the argument is "it is now our time to eat", then someone should simply say so! After all, it is the Kenyan electorate which decides who to vote for as their president, even if it means from the Kikuyu mountains twelve times in a row! Who should any one blame if that be the case?
|
|
|
Post by mangai on Feb 27, 2013 17:55:19 GMT 3
Since independence, the Kikuyus have never voted for a presidential candidate apart from their own but expect others to religiously vote for them. They have that sense of entitlement just because they have the numbers. It is because of that attitude that some communities, especially those who 'don't have the numbers', like me would rather find refuge in a coalition of all tribes of Kenya, not just for two. Had he been born in Kenya, Jakaya Kikwete of Tanzania coming from a very small tribe, could not have even dreamt of being president of Tanzania. Nigerians have this unwritten rule of rotating the presidency between the north and the south. It doesn't have to be in the constitution. Kenya is for all Kenyans. Some attitudes could be slowly pushing some people to militancy. Calls of 'Pwani si Kenya' are not just by accident. for 24 years they voted for Moi!!! Seriuosly though, this is how 42-1 started, so feel free to try it again! For your information, Moi was never voted for prior to 1992. He just went in unopposed. I am for all the 42, not just 2 as espoused and started by Jubilee in their so called tyranny of numbers, and where everybody has equal chance of rising to the top. What do you think pushed Kalonzo to Raila? He didn't have enough 'numbers' to put on the table, so he was told by Ruto and Uhuru....
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Feb 27, 2013 18:03:33 GMT 3
This is very unhelpful and borders on hate-speech. Let's try and do a bit better, please. Otis, There are people who will say this is "hate speech" or "borders on hate speech" and I wouldn't be surprised because they don't know what either is. You, I am surprised. After Raila is sworn and the new government is in place, one of the issues that must be addressed in conjunction with the continuing reformed legal system, is what all these things are or mean. There is a lot of bandying and throwing around legal terminologies and other terms of art by people who genuinely don't know what they are other than what they have conjured in their minds based on nothing beyond what they have heard. That day shall come to pass sooner than later. It's not just the words themselves but also the context in which things are said. Seemingly harmless words in one context could be dangerous in another context. If you search the archives of Jukwaa, you will find a posting in which I cite a Chinese poem that warns of the dangers of being too clever. Still, good to know that one of the benefits of a Raila presidency will be clear explanations of legal terminology. Amazing that we have managed to survive so far. Anything else we should expect from Mr. Makmende?
|
|
|
Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 27, 2013 18:25:27 GMT 3
Omwenga,
This is just too cheap, very cheap from you. Did it have to come to that? What became of democracy and all the processes that define it?
|
|
|
Post by destiny on Feb 27, 2013 18:26:35 GMT 3
Isn't this Mashada stuff?
When will the Digo and Teso ever get a shot at the presidency?
Why not the next president must be a woman?
What criteria should be used to choose which tribe rules next?
Isn't the constitution, supreme law, clear on qualifications to become a president?
Are you saying Cord will not get any votes in Central or from Kikuyus in other parts of Kenya, how can you prove that?
In my humble view, let's not tribalize issues, it's foolish and dangerous. Let's concentrate on civic education, let's talk issues not tribe. Let's just elect who can deliver regardless of tribe.
May the best man win democratically- regardless of tribe.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Feb 27, 2013 18:56:33 GMT 3
in our country, ethnicity permeates everything. that is the way that ethnicity has been manipulated (socially constructed) by the political elites. I think that it is very important to have all of our diversities represented particularly in power positions. that however doesn't mean that I'd like to have any right wing nut-bar ruling in the name of representation. diversity and inclusion doesn't mean we have to settle for a condoleza rice or a clarence thomas just because we're sick tired of white people's racist shenanigans. kenyans do not need to replace ethnic chauvinism with mediocrity. and just to be clear, i'm not saying that raila is mediocre. I don't trust that he will push for fundamental social-political-economic change. but, i keep it real and even though I know that Karua would probably hassle more for every day people, kenyans are still too sexist to seriously consider her.
did it ever occur to you omwenga and most of you here that ethnicity is not the only form of exclusion that we need to address in kenya or anywhere else for that matter? did you ever notice that in spite of the fact that evolution and the natural world prefer more females in a population; that our country and the world at large continues to be male dominated?
so omwenga, if i were to push the premise of your argument to it's logical conclusion, I'd be pushing for Karua and not any of the men most of whom are just plain disgraceful. but hey, what can a woman like me say to people whose tunnel vision doesn't allow then to think outside the damn box?
|
|
|
Post by Omwenga on Feb 27, 2013 19:05:41 GMT 3
Otis, There are people who will say this is "hate speech" or "borders on hate speech" and I wouldn't be surprised because they don't know what either is. You, I am surprised. After Raila is sworn and the new government is in place, one of the issues that must be addressed in conjunction with the continuing reformed legal system, is what all these things are or mean. There is a lot of bandying and throwing around legal terminologies and other terms of art by people who genuinely don't know what they are other than what they have conjured in their minds based on nothing beyond what they have heard. That day shall come to pass sooner than later. It's not just the words themselves but also the context in which things are said. Seemingly harmless words in one context could be dangerous in another context. If you search the archives of Jukwaa, you will find a posting in which I cite a Chinese poem that warns of the dangers of being too clever. Still, good to know that one of the benefits of a Raila presidency will be clear explanations of legal terminology. Amazing that we have managed to survive so far. Anything else we should expect from Mr. Makmende? Otis, While you have stated a true proposition as to how the use of words in one context can be harmless but dangerous in another, you have misapplied the concept as it's inapplicable in this context, namely, what I have blogged about. No tortured reasoning can result in a conclusion that is valid that the words come even remotely close to being hate speech and that's My late Mzee imparted in yours truly all the wisdom I have ever needed and will ever need and apply in life--and it has served me well as it will continue to; all else is secondary, including Chinese, Greek, etc, etc. It's the same wisdom I in turn have instilled in all my four children, beginning from my youngest at 10 to the oldest at 24 with the same outcome That being said, I have long concluded you don't like Raila very much and I have a very good understanding as to why. Being cynical is part and parcel of all life, including politics but I would urge you to consider the fact our country as a near true democracy was only a few years came to be; there is a lot we have survived without but not for much longer if we want to be as progressive and all encompassing in all things that make peoples' lives better than before. One of those is the full implementation of our Constitution and the definition of its parameters which are yet to be defined, including what these newly granted rights and proscriptions mean. That won't happen in just one administration be that of Raila or Uhuru or Didi; it'll take years to come. So, be cynical but the proof shall be in the pudding.
|
|
|
Post by Omwenga on Feb 27, 2013 19:10:18 GMT 3
Omwenga, This is just too cheap, very cheap from you. Did it have to come to that? What became of democracy and all the processes that define it? Mwalimumkuu, If I had time, I would go into a deep analysis of the relationship between democracy and what I am saying; the two are actually not inconsistent therefore there is nothing "cheap" about this. Please reflect on the example I gave of the Bush family in the US which has the same underlying principle of diversity and fairness taking into account people's right to choose leaders of their choice in a democratic society. In other words, the concept is part and parcel of democracy.
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Feb 27, 2013 19:12:16 GMT 3
My late Mzee imparted in yours truly all the wisdom I have ever needed and will ever need and apply in life--and it has served me well as it will continue to; all else is secondary, including Chinese, Greek, etc, etc. I'm always very impressed when I run into a man who states that he has all the wisdom he will ever need. Such a statement itself might imply ... Never mind. I now declare you to be The Wisest & Cleverest. So, then, just carry on.
|
|
|
Post by marikopolitico on Feb 27, 2013 19:38:15 GMT 3
Omwenga, I think you got it all confused. What we actually need is a break from any president who will turn the presidency into a milking cow for their own ethnic brethren at the expense of the rest. This is what has frustrated Kenyans with the kind of leadership we have experienced so far. We must have a values based system that identifies and rewards good leadership irrespective of where it hails from. This is the ideal. We still have a long way there as we still have difficulties implementing chapter 6. If justice were our shield and defender (the call in our national anthem), we would not even be having this discussion. Passing the presidency around without dealing with the just exercise of power does not solve this problem but only entrenches the practice. A practice that doesn't even guarantee sustainable good governance. Well said
|
|
|
Post by marikopolitico on Feb 27, 2013 19:46:32 GMT 3
In Our Brothers and Sisters From Kikuyuland Must Give Us A Break From Yet Another Kikuyu President, omwenga.com/2013/02/27/our-brothers-and-sisters-from-kikuyuland-must-give-us-a-break-from-yet-another-kikuyu-presidency/I plead in the name of fairness, for our brothers and sisters from Kikuyuland to give us a break from yet another Kikuyu presidency for the reasons I state in the blog. As I do so, I must make it abundantly clear this is not a bashing of the community neither is the plea driven by any animosity or dislike of the community; the Kikuyu are just as fine a community and people like any other in the country all I am saying it's not fair in a country of more than 40 tribes to be dominated by one tribe and for such a long time as if the rest of the communities don't matter. Yes, the Kalenjin community has also dominated the presidency in the one president we have had from there but the Kikuyu community has now had the presidency twice and yet seek a third one in Uhuru, who it also doesn't make sense and neither is it fair that he is the son of our first president trying to elbow his way into State House. Let other communities also have a crack at leading the nation and more specifically the Luo whose son Jaramogi turned down an offer to be our first president in favor of his friend Mzee Jomo Kenyatta who would later come to clearly define the meaning of the expression asante ya punda ni mateke. Jaramogi's son now seeks the presidency--this after toshaing Kibaki and making him president back in 2002 our brothers and sisters from that community really should return the favor and tosha Raila, which will also serve the dual purpose of giving us a break from yet another Kikuyu presidency any reasonable and fair Kikuyu would have to agree its the fair and right thing to do at this point and time of our history. It's my wish that this shall be so, so is it the wish of a majority of Kenyans. The article itself has to be one of the most tasteless pieces I have had the misfortune to read. Not only is it presumptious but it verges on hate speech, but it is undemocratic in its very nature, patronising and remarkably pointless. This is something Id expect from a moronic rabble raiser like Robert Alai and not an educated lawyer like Samuel Omwenga. Mr Omwenga are you by just suggesting that Peter Kenneth, Martha Karua and Paul Muite should step out of the presidential race due to their ancestry? Are you suggesting threatening that Kenya will fall apart should any one of those three win? Shameful article. Read what EBARASI commented. You can do so so much better than a 42 v 2 article
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Feb 27, 2013 20:21:49 GMT 3
omwenga.files.wordpress.com/2013/01/In Our Brothers and Sisters From Kikuyuland Must Give Us A Break From Yet Another Kikuyu President, omwenga.com/2013/02/27/our-brothers-and-sisters-from-kikuyuland-must-give-us-a-break-from-yet-another-kikuyu-presidency/I plead in the name of fairness, for our brothers and sisters from Kikuyuland to give us a break from yet another Kikuyu presidency for the reasons I state in the blog. As I do so, I must make it abundantly clear this is not a bashing of the community neither is the plea driven by any animosity or dislike of the community; the Kikuyu are just as fine a community and people like any other in the country all I am saying it's not fair in a country of more than 40 tribes to be dominated by one tribe and for such a long time as if the rest of the communities don't matter. Yes, the Kalenjin community has also dominated the presidency in the one president we have had from there but the Kikuyu community has now had the presidency twice and yet seek a third one in Uhuru, who it also doesn't make sense and neither is it fair that he is the son of our first president trying to elbow his way into State House. Let other communities also have a crack at leading the nation and more specifically the Luo whose son Jaramogi turned down an offer to be our first president in favor of his friend Mzee Jomo Kenyatta who would later come to clearly define the meaning of the expression asante ya punda ni mateke. Jaramogi's son now seeks the presidency--this after toshaing Kibaki and making him president back in 2002 our brothers and sisters from that community really should return the favor and tosha Raila, which will also serve the dual purpose of giving us a break from yet another Kikuyu presidency any reasonable and fair Kikuyu would have to agree its the fair and right thing to do at this point and time of our history. It's my wish that this shall be so, so is it the wish of a majority of Kenyans. First, I want to make one thing clear, that when it comes to freedom of speech I am totally libertarian, and just as I condemned Mzalendo Kibunja for curtailing the expressive range of some gikuyu singers, I believe those who want to indulge in hate speech should freely do so. I know hate exists in the world, even inter-ethnic hate. That it is not publicly expressed [verbally or scriptually], would not mean it wont explode violently nor exist and direct peoples' fundamental choices. I want it all out in the open. Which of course would not mean a ban on, nor an end to expressing it in codes as we now ever do. Now to Omwenga's plea to the gikuyu to behave themselves. It also reads: other tribes, do not vote for a kikuyu! The venerable Abdulmote of Jukwaa, is on record on an earlier thread he started, questioning the fate of small ethnic groups as far as the presidency is concerned, if candidates have to be buttressed by their ethnic tally. B6k, the Oyominto, actually had a very sensible suggestion: That is the rotating presidency. if Kenya is going to continue to be ethnic obsessed in her voting patterns. Those threads seem to have missed Omwenga's attentions! either by design or occupation elsewhere more profitable. Or I do not remember catching his input. But this title now, We NEED A BREAK FROM YET ANOTHER ...., just within sight of the general and presidential election which is indeterminate if one is go by the opinion polls, is pure poison. Indeed a choice piece of evil and malice. But no doubt a powerful propaganda pitch. ---I will explain in a moment. If we were not schooled in these arts, we would grin at the churlishness of Omwenga, consider it mere boyish provocation. If it were written far from the elections, during peace when people are engaged with World Cup football daily on television for instance, we would even consider it a welcome relief to debate something meaningful to the future of our country, in the sense of an an attempt at a position paper on the route to b6k's idea of a rotating presidency to deal with our ethnic obsession. But when it is written as such, and further qualified in historical reference to political debts the Gikuyu may have to Jaramogi's lineage, only seven or less days to a too-close-to-call result featuring the scions of those two royalties, then it is a clear pitch at emotive mobilisation. And straightforwardly it is calculated to mobilise anti-gikuyu sentiment. And for instances where it is already mobilised, to sediment and re-enforce it further. A timely reminder. A prompt. This is the famous 41 against 1 school. Not even a thematic variation on it, but a resonance of the same vibration. Given the delicate fabric of inter-ethnic relations, seeing last time around half a million kyuks became IDPs, it is evil, callous and highly inflammatory. But remember that does not mean I condemn its publication and dissemination! there is no idea or thought in the mind of another human being which I consider too dangerous to be disseminated. That is my position. The expression of thinking must be totally free. Of course the thinking expressed by Omwenga here illustrates the bankruptcy of the party he campaigns for. Otherwise they could have won the election on the basis of their policies. Other policies, apart from preventing the umpteenth Gikuyu presidency, citing historical grievance, ===ills actually committed by individuals and not the collective tribe. Then there is the context of Omwenga being a man, if we are too believe him, riding around campaigns in the limo of a certain candidate. It raises the interesting thought of a coordinated pitch. [Necessitating a disclaimer that the thinking represented here is .... the way Miguna used to do it every time he barked fierce.] While some may consider the coincidence too opportune, a Raila adviser admonishing Kenyans to reject Gikuyu hegemony three days before an election, I am ready to believe the two events are un-related, and that Omwenga was randomly expressing his thoughts . [But in the real world of politics, such an essay is too hot to be random]. But I will repeat: I defend Omwenga's right to monger hate if he so chooses. Gikuyus have eaten enough, you hear it every day on the streets... NB: KIbaki and Raila had a secret MOU whose contents have never been fully revealed nor acknowledged by the two. I wouldn't make that a national quarrel between the Luo and the Kikuyus, that Kibaki reneged. It was a private affair.
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Feb 27, 2013 22:09:31 GMT 3
Jakaswanga:
Reading what you have written, I can see that you have yet to arrive at Mama Mboga's. Anyway ...
There are countries where a great deal is allowed in the name of "freedom of speech", and then there are other places. And still other places.
I have lived in several countries, and as a black person the place where I felt most comfortable was Singapore; I felt that it not have mattered had I had purple skin, orange hair and green teeth. On the few occasions when I experienced racial discrimination, it was from other "foreigners"----new arrivals from mainland China (who are still causing problems there today) and wazungus from questionable places like Australia. People used to ask me why I chose to live there. There, you have the answer. Lee Kwan Yew kept it simple: work hard, obey the law, and if you are a foreigner, keep your nose out of politics; and if anyone messes with you on anything other than those three, we'll sort them out---right away.
How did Singapore come to be like that?
Early on in its history, Singapore had quite a bit of racial mayhem. Lee Kwan Yew came up with a two-pronged solution. First, every Singaporean kid in school is required to master at least one one of the major non-English languages (Tamil, Chinese, and Malay) and to have a good knowledge of at least one other culture. (I like the language bit: one group cannot communicate on the assumption that another group will not understand what is going on.) Second, at least in my time, racial hatred was simply not tolerated. You engage in it, and the law comes down hard and swift. No hand-wringing about freedom of speech.
You say you want it out in the open. I don't know if that's necessarily good or bad. But I know that I liked Lee Kwan Yew's approach. He kept it simple when it came to things like "questionable" sexual activities and racial intolerance: do and say whatever you like in the privacy and comfort of your own home; we get a whiff of it anywhere else, and you can count on some head-cracking. (As regards the former, he accepted the inevitable, but insisted that it be within the law----no pimps, no street walkers, medical checks, taxes paid, etc.)
We can engage in all sorts of abstract discussions on "freedom of speech" and what it entails, but we should be very mindful of our history and how we got to where are today.
If people think that Kikuyus have "eaten enough", then they can simply go ahead and vote for other people. It is neither necessary nor helpful to stir up tribal animosity. In any case, as another poster---ebarasi, I think---has pointed out, it would be very unfortunate if voting was based solely on tribe. After all, isn't that exactly the sort of thing we keep denouncing? It seems extremely cheeky to suggest that if other people vote for their their tribal "our man", then it's bad, but it's just fine if we vote for "our man" and other people vote against that other tribal "our man".
Let us suppose that we can---and we keep claiming that we are working at it---manage to conduct free, fair, and transparent elections and that our populace is sufficiently educated and aware to care about the "issues" (as opposed to "our man!"). In that case, I see no fundamental problem with 100 years of Kikuyu presidency. But to simply say "not another Kikuyu!" is not the way to go. The candidates should all give it their best shot, and the voters should choose on the basis of who they think has made the best case.
I am very much against voting for any person or against any person solely on the basis of tribe. That is where we've been, and that is where we need to move from. Omwenga's little "contribution" represents a retrograde step and must be seen as such, especially given that he should know better.
|
|
bob
Full Member
Posts: 238
|
Post by bob on Feb 27, 2013 22:17:47 GMT 3
Members
I tried have my best to understand what this debate is all about but I just can get,it is either am foolish or ignorant. But I believe non of the aforementioned. Lets not waste time discussing tribes and start if not continue discussing leadership choices.Tribal talk is cheap & retrogressive & should have no place in modern society especially in the 21st century! The best medicine for search threads is to ignore, we don't have to respond to everything because sometimes it is not worth the time & adds no value.
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Feb 27, 2013 23:29:14 GMT 3
Otishotish wrote:
Otishotish,
Some of these things may, on the surface of it, appear to be hair-splitting doctrinal indulgences best dismissed as academic, but a closer look reveals they have practical consequences on the mental outlook of a land. Stuff like how a country defines treason, ... and yes, hate-speech, and to what extent expression is curtailed by law for [eg] national cohesion!
There now above, in as much as I have elsewhere sung the praises to Lee Kwan Yew's dexterity at economic management, you put your finger squarely on why I would never live in places Singapore. The moment I land in a country is the moment I start putting my nose in that country's political affairs. Otherwise I feel brain dead! [First day I landed in the UK, as the immigration official was taking too long peering at my passport, I asked him why his country was still having such an outdated form of government called a hereditary Kingdom! He squinted at me, pardon? I said royalties were historically killed by Renaissance European thinking two hundred years ago! Time passed you guys around here ---damn, an island of savages?? grudgingly he found out from his superior I had not commited an offence!
You learn a lot about a country that way! I am sure they would have jailed me in Singapore if I called Kew ywan a tin-pot dictator in the oriental mode! So I prefer an island of isolated savages who profess freedom of expression, even for a savage black, to the efficiency of Singapore, with its mortuary discipline of the mind. A colony of ants.
The things I hear Kenyans say and laugh at everyday in a matatu when they speak carefree, when I look at such laws as hate-speech, they would all be banned. For instance the jokes about homosexuals! horrid pieces of hate work! but very funny and witty!
Man is born to be free. If your country can not take it, then it is the country which is wrong! You let this political class define anything for you, you are lost. How again, did you find they define for example: integrity of [public office holders]! ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Feb 28, 2013 0:02:16 GMT 3
in our country, ethnicity permeates everything. that is the way that ethnicity has been manipulated (socially constructed) by the political elites. I think that it is very important to have all of our diversities represented particularly in power positions. that however doesn't mean that I'd like to have any right wing nut-bar ruling in the name of representation. diversity and inclusion doesn't mean we have to settle for a condoleza rice or a clarence thomas just because we're sick tired of white people's racist shenanigans. kenyans do not need to replace ethnic chauvinism with mediocrity. and just to be clear, i'm not saying that raila is mediocre. I don't trust that he will push for fundamental social-political-economic change. but, i keep it real and even though I know that Karua would probably hassle more for every day people, kenyans are still too sexist to seriously consider her. did it ever occur to you omwenga and most of you here that ethnicity is not the only form of exclusion that we need to address in kenya or anywhere else for that matter? did you ever notice that in spite of the fact that evolution and the natural world prefer more females in a population; that our country and the world at large continues to be male dominated? so omwenga, if i were to push the premise of your argument to it's logical conclusion, I'd be pushing for Karua and not any of the men most of whom are just plain disgraceful. but hey, what can a woman like me say to people whose tunnel vision doesn't allow then to think outside the damn box? KK, you're right. As far as I know the Abagusii of which Omwenga (& I) hail from have NEVER elected a woman into parliament. Any women who have stepped in the august house have been nominated. This is a worse record than most communities in KE....
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Feb 28, 2013 0:35:02 GMT 3
Then there is the context of Omwenga being a man, if we are too believe him, riding around campaigns in the limo of a certain candidate. It raises the interesting thought of a coordinated pitch. [Necessitating a disclaimer that the thinking represented here is .... the way Miguna used to do it every time he barked fierce.] While some may consider the coincidence too opportune, a Raila adviser admonishing Kenyans to reject Gikuyu hegemony three days before an election, I am ready to believe the two events are un-related, and that Omwenga was randomly expressing his thoughts . [But in the real world of politics, such an essay is too hot to be random]. But I will repeat: I defend Omwenga's right to monger hate if he so chooses. Gikuyus have eaten enough, you hear it every day on the streets... ;D ;D ;D ;D Jakaswanga, I didn't think of it this way but you do have a point. Just how much such a strategy so late in the day can be effective is another matter. I would think this would be more in the column of re-affirming pre-existing gripes....
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Feb 28, 2013 1:05:07 GMT 3
Jakaswanga:
There are few (very, very few) politicians that I regard as highly as I do Lee Kwan Yew. At another time, I will write more on that and (hopefully) do away with your "misunderstandings".
He is currently very old and in very poor health. When he passes away, I will be very saddened that the world should lose a genuinely great person. And so will I with regard to Mandela, who, by way of sharp contrast, is the very "opposite"
* Read his memoirs, "From Third World To First World".
Most "regular" people don't see politics as an end to itself. They want something more. Even in Kenya, when people vote for "our man", it's largely on the basis of the "eating" possibilities.
|
|
|
Post by Omwenga on Feb 28, 2013 3:31:12 GMT 3
Ori Jakaswanga and Otis,
I have read both of your posts and am certain there is something profound you both are saying but it has eluded me; this may be on account I just woke up getting ready to head to one of Raila/Cord's closing events in the remaining days before the real deal is done with the voters but will re-read when the four eyes can see more clearly and maybe I'll get it.
I have seen a couple or so non-points both of you have tried to make and all they tell me, is you both did not get what it is I am saying in my own post.
Perhaps you should re-read it, too and maybe you'll see what it is I am saying, which I wouldn't change a word despite all of what I think you both are trying to say.
|
|
|
Post by Omwenga on Feb 28, 2013 4:10:16 GMT 3
My late Mzee imparted in yours truly all the wisdom I have ever needed and will ever need and apply in life--and it has served me well as it will continue to; all else is secondary, including Chinese, Greek, etc, etc. I'm always very impressed when I run into a man who states that he has all the wisdom he will ever need. Such a statement itself might imply ... Never mind. I now declare you to be The Wisest & Cleverest. So, then, just carry on. Otis. If you are "very impressed" when you run into a man who states that he has all the wisdom he will ever need; what do you do when you run into a woman who states the same? Just curious.
|
|
|
Post by Omwenga on Feb 28, 2013 4:16:21 GMT 3
Isn't this Mashada stuff? In my humble view, let's not tribalize issues, it's foolish and dangerous. Let's concentrate on civic education, let's talk issues not tribe. Let's just elect who can deliver regardless of tribe. You did not get what I am saying for it has nothing to do with "tribalizing" anything; these are related but distinct concepts you've got to carefully read what I am saying to notice the difference. Further confirmation you missed my point.
|
|