|
Post by OtishOtish on Feb 28, 2013 4:40:44 GMT 3
I'm always very impressed when I run into a man who states that he has all the wisdom he will ever need. Such a statement itself might imply ... Never mind. I now declare you to be The Wisest & Cleverest. So, then, just carry on. Otis. If you are "very impressed" when you run into a man who states that he has all the wisdom he will ever need; what do you do when you run into a woman who states the same? Just curious. When I run into a woman who expresses that level of arrogance, I will be sure to let you know. So far, all women I have ever dealt with seem to be a bit more sensible. Probably one of those deeply fundamental gender-differences.
|
|
|
Post by Fahari on Feb 28, 2013 7:55:02 GMT 3
Then there is the context of Omwenga being a man, if we are too believe him, riding around campaigns in the limo of a certain candidate. It raises the interesting thought of a coordinated pitch. [Necessitating a disclaimer that the thinking represented here is .... the way Miguna used to do it every time he barked fierce.] While some may consider the coincidence too opportune, a Raila adviser admonishing Kenyans to reject Gikuyu hegemony three days before an election, I am ready to believe the two events are un-related, and that Omwenga was randomly expressing his thoughts . [But in the real world of politics, such an essay is too hot to be random]. But I will repeat: I defend Omwenga's right to monger hate if he so chooses. Gikuyus have eaten enough, you hear it every day on the streets... ;D ;D ;D ;D Jakaswanga, I didn't think of it this way but you do have a point. Just how much such a strategy so late in the day can be effective is another matter. I would think this would be more in the column of re-affirming pre-existing gripes.... It's a strategy alright , rather late in the day but one aimed at a run off as its clear ODM / CORD is loosing this round. The grand idea it seems is to arouse enough ethnic gripe so as to deny Jubilee an outright win then use 41 vs 1 during the run off.
|
|
|
Post by Fahari on Feb 28, 2013 8:17:49 GMT 3
Ori Jakaswanga and Otis,
I have read both of your posts and am certain there is something profound you both are saying but it has eluded me; this may be on account I just woke up getting ready to head to one of Raila/Cord's closing events in the remaining days before the real deal is done with the voters but will re-read when the four eyes can see more clearly and maybe I'll get it. I have seen a couple or so non-points both of you have tried to make and all they tell me, is you both did not get what it is I am saying in my own post. Perhaps you should re-read it, too and maybe you'll see what it is I am saying, which I wouldn't change a word despite all of what I think you both are trying to say. I am getting confused now, aren't you the one who recently declared Uhuru's political career finished? Now,why would anyone need a break from that which,according to your wisdom, is nonexistent? Aren't you being a bit redundant? Unless perhaps .....reality is dawning
|
|
|
Post by roughrider on Feb 28, 2013 11:16:54 GMT 3
In other news, Keino says that evidence points to Mwangi, Muchiri and Mburu as the thieves who conspired to make money from a deal to acquire the Kenyan embassy in Tokyo from a private person flouting basic procurement law.
Thuita Mwangi is of course a staunch Uhuru acolyte who prosecuted his anti-ICC crusade at the AU, UN and in the media. Incidentally, the person he was working with at the UN, a Macharia Kamau (our permanent rep there) is embroiled in a scandal of his own having abandoned his official residence to take up an expensive apartment that costs me and you $9,835
This is not a national security issue, so it is unlikely that the National security Advisory Committee of Kimemia, Mutea, Gichangi, Karangi and others will meet to discuss the emerging crisis...
|
|
|
Post by mank on Feb 28, 2013 15:06:16 GMT 3
We cannot be for detribalizing politics yet talk against a tribe in our politicks. We do not need "a break from yet another Kikuyu presidency." We need a good president!
|
|
|
Post by b6k on Feb 28, 2013 19:02:09 GMT 3
;D ;D ;D ;D Jakaswanga, I didn't think of it this way but you do have a point. Just how much such a strategy so late in the day can be effective is another matter. I would think this would be more in the column of re-affirming pre-existing gripes.... It's a strategy alright , rather late in the day but one aimed at a run off as its clear ODM / CORD is loosing this round. The grand idea it seems is to arouse enough ethnic gripe so as to deny Jubilee an outright win then use 41 vs 1 during the run off. Fahari, anyone who would be susceptible to the tribal card would've made up their minds eons ago...
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Feb 28, 2013 21:10:49 GMT 3
Jakaswanga: There are few (very, very few) politicians that I regard as highly as I do Lee Kwan Yew. At another time, I will write more on that and (hopefully) do away with your "misunderstandings". He is currently very old and in very poor health. When he passes away, I will be very saddened that the world should lose a genuinely great person. And so will I with regard to Mandela, who, by way of sharp contrast, is the very "opposite" * Read his memoirs, "From Third World To First World". Most "regular" people don't see politics as an end to itself. They want something more. Even in Kenya, when people vote for "our man", it's largely on the basis of the "eating" possibilities. Otishotish, No doubt in my mind. Kwan Yew is the perfect picture of an enlightened despot! He took away some essential freedoms from his flock, but fulfilled his promise of economic super-achievement. He did not fail them like all elsewhere. He is unparalleled ... unless you wan us to argue the case of Dr. Mohamed Mahathir of Malaysia, and the late Gen. Park Chung Hee of Korea south! [his daughter has ridden on his re-appraisal to be elected president....]Yew Kwan, in my estimation, comes closest to a dictator who also had a monopoly of wisdom in political practice and rule. And I am hard-pressed to find such in history --Czaar Peter the Great of Russia? Ramses II of Old Egypt?! that route is of course littered with pretenders and fakes, more than, if we are to believe Fahari, Koinange street is with fake students. -- Mubarak, Saddam Hussein, Mobutu, arap Moi! all of them spotting heavenly titles, of which His Excellency is the least! I look forward to your complete works on Lee Yew! I don't think I would mind his ilk running Kenya!
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Feb 28, 2013 22:27:25 GMT 3
No doubt in my mind. Kwan Yew is the perfect picture of an enlightened despot! He took away some essential freedoms from his flock, but fulfilled his promise of economic super-achievement! Quite so, and he was always very blunt. As he told his compatriots, "the last thing a developing country needs is democracy!". But his enlightenment showed in the fact that he knew his "model" was unsustainable in the long term. When I lived there, he was already moving to dismantle (or appear to be dismantling) the very "tough" system (within reason, of course!) and to make sure that the hardest elements were not so glaring. (Even though he stepped down from the post of PM, he was still very much in control.) One of the things Lee realized is that for most people as long as life is tangibly improving, politics is largely a bugger-all business. And he set about it. First was home ownership: the goverment built homes and sold them very cheaply. (In my time, I think something like about 80% of Singaporeans owned their own homes, most of them bought from the government) Then, as things got better, the government has kept upgrading these homes. Second was to get people to actually pay attention to the performance of the national economy. One of ways in which this works is that everyone who works in government or government-supported organization has a three-part wage: (a) an official salary that is always paid, (b) an individual performance bonus, (c) a bonus that depends on how the national economy is doing. (The private sector quickly got the point and stepped up.) When I was there, in a good year, (b)+(c) could be as much as half a year's salary. I need not get into the details of the effect that has on working habits and views of the national economy. And on the other side of the incentives is the fact that if you don't work hard then you simply got it in the neck. Between these two, I have never worked so hard in my life. But I was quite happy with the strict meritocracy that is one of Lee's greatest achievements. Just before he stepped down, he upset the elite of the stating that Singaporeans had managed to become rich but they were still uncultured---that they were working like crazy but not enjoying the finer things of life. Being Lee, words were quickly followed by action: billions of dollars were promptly spent on theatres, museums, ... arts and culture from all over the world, with the very best artists. Money no object! My wife and I were the other day discussing restaurants, and I found it amusing that she thinks the best African restaurant she's ever been to was in Singapore ... fantastic place, in the "Carnivore" style, but featuring the very best of Africa---furnishings, music, food, wine ... The current Lee too has an iron fist but nicely covered in a velvet glove. For example ... The older Lee's view on Singapore's declining procreation rates was that people weren't meeting enough and getting married quickly enough. Solution: "love boats" cruising the Singapore River, on which people would mix and mingle, and, hopefully, later get on with it at home. But, being Lee, only "quality" stock was encouraged to procreate: to get on the "love boats" one had to be reasonably young (under 35 I think), university educated, and have a good job. The younger Lee thought all that was a bit crude. Besides, it turns out that even though people are marrying, they are not procreating sufficiently quickly. The conclusion is that perhaps they are not doing enough of "it". The obvious solution: a government campaign to that end, whence a "National Ding-Dong Night". For this day, known as "National Night" the populace is encouraged to make sure the kids (if any) are fed and put to bed early, any possible "interferences" are taken care of, etc., etc., etc. ... and then! A bit of in+out for the country. Oh, yes, there's a government bonus for "success".
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Feb 28, 2013 23:27:33 GMT 3
The older Lee's view on Singapore's declining procreation rates was that people weren't meeting enough and getting married quickly enough. Solution: "love boats" cruising the Singapore River, on which people would mix and mingle, and, hopefully, later get on with it at home. But, being Lee, only "quality" stock was encouraged to procreate: to get on the "love boats" one had to be reasonably young (under 35 I think), university educated, and have a good job. The younger Lee thought all that was a bit crude. Besides, it turns out that even though people are marrying, they are not procreating sufficiently quickly. The conclusion is that perhaps they are not doing enough of "it". The obvious solution: a government campaign to that end, whence a "National Ding-Dong Night". For this day, known as "National Night" the populace is encouraged to make sure the kids (if any) are fed and put to bed early, any possible "interferences" are taken care of, etc., etc., etc. ... and then! A bit of in+out for the country. Oh, yes, there's a government bonus for "success". Otishotish, The idea of a people who worked so hard to create a paradise and, in the process, forgot how to procreate, do the ding-dong thing as you put it, is unnerving. I thought for normal humanity, Freudian knowledgeable or not, life is all about ding-dong! Big cars, nuclear physics, 7-gorges dams visible from planet Uranus, academic titles of the prof. Dr. Mr. Eng type, rally-driver, boxer, are all just pea-cock tails? that is extravagant methods of getting the opposite sex to bed and do procreative or non-procreative ding-dong! And here are Singaporeans who took another evolutionary detour and got marooned in the planet of dead loins? Needing a state policy to generate a bit of electricity down there??? Man, for his miracle, Kew really exacted a savage price on his citizens! Other countries have police death squads executing street children born of prostitutes! [this model could soon be coming to a city in the sun you might know!]! and those Singapore people can not manage one kid per 100 couples!!! damn! I know some fisherman beasts from some Viktoria islands who, imported as studs, would wreak an epidemic of swollen oriental bellies on the island state, on the double! How does Yew Jnr view black seed by the way? African progeny does have a singular characteristic or raising anxieties in paradises! if you get the idea! But true, harsh meritocracy, I heard Singapore banks were unscathed in the baking crisis. Reason? they had been smart enough not to make the same decisions the then whizz-kids of finance were making on wall-street and other such towery streets of finance! The King of Bhutan, high up in the Himalaya, introduced the concept of Bruto National Happiness Index. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_national_happinessHow do you think Kew Yuan jnr. subjects rate in this?
|
|
|
Post by jakaswanga on Feb 28, 2013 23:28:14 GMT 3
Otishotish, how about a separate Singapore thread?
|
|
|
Post by sang2000 on Mar 1, 2013 0:28:01 GMT 3
The writer asked me to post this in my lists. These are his views, posted entirely as is, with no editing on my part. I decided to piggy-back it on Omwenga's thread, as there is a similarity in thought. Read on: - Sang
WHAT KIND OF PRESIDENT DOES KENYA NEED? By
Chebusit Marindany Laboso Dec 28, 2013
It is important to remember that Kenya will need a president who is focused, least embroiled in corruption, brave and even willing to lead a national referendum to remove some excesses in the constitution, such as the additional 80 constituencies. Kenya needs a president who will fight corruption to its logical conclusion, fight tribalism in the government, restore confidence in the public institutions, spread development resources and government services to all parts of the country, effectively deal with the problem of land and historical injustices and be willing to re-look at the resettlement of IDPs, particularly in Nakuru and Laikipia counties with a view of dealing with the problem of “political IDPs”, among a battery of other issues.
Kenya needs leaders who are issue-oriented and not those interested in raw power. Why are some people on a number of social media forums and some on the ground so fervent about Uhuru’s presidency? What is one unique thing that Kenya will benefit if Uhuru is elected the next president? I think we have failed to focus on issues that will move Kenya to the next level of development. I have not heard of any strategy that Uhuru has talked about to help unite the country coupled with the fact that he has been reluctant to bring the issue of historical land injustices to the table for a sober discussion. In fact, he avoids the critical issue of historical land injustices like a plague yet this is the single most important thing that will either unite or break the country…somebody once joked that security is to Israel and land is to Kenya!
How can Uhuru’s presidency unite all the 42 ethnic communities of Kenya when he is but busy alienating almost every other community other than his and some members of the Kalenjin community? Is that uniting the people of Kenya? Uhuru may not be aware that even the community that Ruto comes from is sharply divided and very critical of Ruto’s approach to entering into a coalition that the community does not know what is in the memorandum of understanding (MOU) and without a clear road map of: 1) how to deal with historical land injustices; 2) how to bring national healing, cohesion and integration and permanent peace among all the 42 ethnic communities of Kenya; 3) how to fight the cancer of tribalism and impunity that the current leadership has not only perfected but has taken to a whole new level; 4) how to re-look at the resettlement of IDPs in Laikipia and Nakuru with a view of maintaining the original ethnic demographics. The resettlement of “political IDPs” in these two counties has caused another historical land injustice that could burn the country in future if not address by the next president not through the National Land Commission but by engaging the communities involved and guided by history, TJRC and NCIC; 5) fully implementing the new constitution; and 6) fighting the impunity and corruption with a zeal that has never been seen before.
Kenyans will do themselves proud by helping their sons, William and Uhuru, by not overburdening them with demanding leadership responsibilities but give them time to prepare for the most serious international criminal court cases and by praying for them and the victims that were most affected by the post-election violence (PEV) in 2008. It will prudent for William and Uhuru to deal with these ICC cases first, come clean and try the presidency in the years to come rather try to drag the country into cases that may take several years to determine and complete.
Kenyans have also had a feel of how a Kikuyu president operates when in power…Jomo Kenyatta’s 15 years and Kibaki’s 10 years making a total of 25 years of Kikuyu’s presidency. In these 25 years, the major drawback has been that of TRIBALISM. Jomo Kenyatta and Kibaki have been completely unable to fight the cancer of tribalism. Then the time came for a Kalenjin leadership of Daniel Toroitich Araap Moi who led the country for 24 years. Kenyans are fond of Moi’s leadership style, particularly when it came to ensuring that Kenyans enjoy peace, unity and security. When he took over the reins of power, he was categorical that he was going to follow Jomo Kenyatta’s leadership footsteps and whatever Moi he did while he was in power; Kenyans knew where he was coming from. However, one thing that Kenyans will forever remember about president Moi’s presidency is his ability to hold the 42 ethnic communities together. He ensured that the country enjoyed peace, love and unity while his major strength was that of ensuring that Kenyans had security (external and internal). Moi also ensured that communities that were victims of drought and food shortages were protected and provided for.
It is therefore natural that Kenyans give the mantle of leadership to somebody else from any one of the remaining 40 communities to try his or her luck on March 4th, 2013. As Joshua Araap Sang (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g2i8IrPn4ug&feature=share ), a former radio journalist stated, a NEUTRAL leader is needed to unite the people of Kenya particularly those communities that have had historical land disputes (in Rift Valley, Central and Coast provinces). A Kikuyu or a Kalenjin presidency will not be a neutral arbiter since there will be a conflict of interest. We have already seen this when thousands of “political IDPs” were brought and settled in 17 blocks of land in Nakuru County during Kibaki’s presidency. Giwa alone (an IDP center in Nakuru County) has over 3,000 people! Now all the 11 national assembly constituencies in Nakuru, except Kuresoi South are likely to be under the lock and key of one community that benefit from the influx of political IDPs. Thousands of other political IDPs were settled in Laikipia County creating another complicated historical land injustice that will not be addressed if we do not elect a neutral person as our president to bring soberness and freshness into finding a long lasting solution that is fair to all affected communities!
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 1, 2013 1:06:05 GMT 3
Otishotish, how about a separate Singapore thread? Of course. From a Kikuyu president in Kenya to procreational habits in the Far East is something of a digression. To be continued. Later. On another thread. My main point, though, is that there are lessons to be learned from very fundamental things, such as hard work, meritocracy, and a bit of ...
|
|
|
Post by johns on Mar 1, 2013 1:32:50 GMT 3
Otishotish, how about a separate Singapore thread? Of course. From a Kikuyu president in Kenya to procreational habits in the Far East is something of a digression. To be continued. Later. On another thread. My main point, though, is that there are lessons to be learned from very fundamental things, such as hard work, meritocracy, and a bit of ... Otishotish, A man who used the full force of his personality, the law and everything at his disposal to fight real and imagined opponents, is not what i regard as a quintersential statesman or leader. That is a despot or a dictator and there is neither good nor great one. Lee Kwan Yew was such a person regardless of what good came from that for Singaporeans.
|
|
|
Post by OtishOtish on Mar 1, 2013 4:32:37 GMT 3
P.S. "johns" wrote:
"Lee Kwan Yew was such a person regardless of what good came from that for Singaporeans."
My own view is that what "comes out" for the citizens is what really matters. But I am open to arguments to the effect that better a "good" person who fwacks his country than a "bad" person who does them some "good". Simply put, good is usually better than bad. For most folks anyway ... I look at Singapore and Kenya in 1963. And then I look at Singapore and Kenya today. I prefer to let certain numbers to the talking.
All sorts of discussions are possible about the concept of "leadership", but, at the very least a reasonable one is this: have the led been led to where they wanted to go? They got to the Promised Land, but that Moses guy was a bit of ...
Did you see Jakaswanga's comment about General Park? Well worth a closer study.
|
|
|
Post by johns on Mar 1, 2013 8:48:53 GMT 3
P.S. "johns" wrote: "Lee Kwan Yew was such a person regardless of what good came from that for Singaporeans."My own view is that what "comes out" for the citizens is what really matters. But I am open to arguments to the effect that better a "good" person who fwacks his country than a "bad" person who does them some "good". Simply put, good is usually better than bad. For most folks anyway ... I look at Singapore and Kenya in 1963. And then I look at Singapore and Kenya today. I prefer to let certain numbers to the talking. All sorts of discussions are possible about the concept of "leadership", but, at the very least a reasonable one is this: have the led been led to where they wanted to go? They got to the Promised Land, but that Moses guy was a bit of ... Did you see Jakaswanga's comment about General Park? Well worth a closer study. OtishOtishI must admit that I respect your personal view and encounter with the country Singapore but my experience there and even of some close friends of mine who were born there but Ultimately left Singapore because of lack of something they regarded as fundamental to the enchanted human soul – that is freedom of expression. I must admit though that Lee Kuan Yew is an extraordinary man with exceptional talent and zeal. His Achilles’ heel lay with his obsession to control and manage every aspect of Singaporean society Some might find nobility in the result of his approach given the tremendious development outcome, while those who value human spirit and its right of expression have diffuculties reconciling the effect and cost of such development at the expense of forfeituring basic rights. The sad thing about it all is the fact that Singaporeans have acquiesced to his authority and influence however wrong he sometimes were and still is I have read a lot about his zeal to preserve the undemocratic traits of Asian culture while attending to the demands of a capitalist economy. Nevertheless, I still maintain that all the achievements which have spurred and made Singapore what she is today, could still have been achieved with the insistence of forging a more open society that interrogates its own conscience through discussion and consensus but not this zero sum system which he adopted and ran with singularly I may be approaching this from a point of bias since my last experience with the place was not the most pleasant one and I must admit I might have brought it upon myself willingly. You see, Freedom of speech and Freedom of assembly is something alien to these people. My friends and I found out this the hard way in Singapore; that the propensity to manage people is taken to a point of absurdity in this place. How can you have a nation where all things considered great as far as what the human eyes see and yet have issues with an assembly of more than 5 people, where a police permit is demanded? Well to cut the story short, my big mouth did me in and everything went downhill from there. @otish, the thing that I find uncomforting the most about Lee Kuan Yew is the fact that he has apportioned to himself the role as a Singaporean lord of enlightenment. Its like Singaporeans have drunk some cool-aid which has them completely zombied up and forever waiting the word of their Master on what to think, breath or even procreate. I think it should disturb anyone that although Lee Kuan Yew resigned as prime minister in 1990, he has remained the power behind the throne ever since making a mockery of the so-called resignation. Wait, he went further by capping it all through his eldest son Lee Hsien Loong practically succeeding him as a prime minister in 2004 What is wrong with this picture or simply Singaporeans and does Lee Kuan Yew believe that his loins are the only ones that can produce a better Singaporean caretaker when he is not at the helm?
|
|
|
Post by Onyango Oloo on Mar 1, 2013 15:24:47 GMT 3
Message to Omwenga via my Twitter account:
The Nairobian The Nairobian @cityinthesun
PURE TRIBAL HATE SPEECH in Jukwaa blog written by a lawyer banned from practicing in USA! ow.ly/i6aQP @onyangooloo @ncic_Kenya
03:50 PM - 27 Feb 13
|
|
|
Post by joblesscorner on Apr 2, 2013 16:35:46 GMT 3
;D ;D ;D ;D
|
|
|
Post by afrigun on Apr 2, 2013 17:06:20 GMT 3
Brother, Practice what you preach!!!
|
|
|
Post by joblesscorner on Apr 2, 2013 17:25:20 GMT 3
I could not help it..... ;D ;D ;D Brother, Practice what you preach!!!
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Apr 2, 2013 17:54:32 GMT 3
I could not help it..... ;D ;D ;D Brother, Practice what you preach!!! have yourselves a good old laugh! we'll just have to wait and see how long that laugh,which sounds like a hyena's, ;D ;D ;D is going to last.
|
|
|
Post by joblesscorner on Apr 2, 2013 18:37:14 GMT 3
;D ;D I could not help it..... ;D ;D ;D have yourselves a good old laugh! we'll just have to wait and see how long that laugh,which sounds like a hyena's, ;D ;D ;D is going to last.
|
|