Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Mar 3, 2013 1:58:15 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Mar 3, 2013 8:27:22 GMT 3
This Canadian writer deserves a medal for writing a fair & balanced article on the ICC issue. Who can argue with this? "Kenyatta was indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity for the violence that followed the 2007 election, as was his running mate, William Ruto. If they win, it raises the vexing possibility that, as Odinga suggested at a presidential debate, Kenyatta would be forced to “run the government by Skype from The Hague.”
It was a good one-liner, but many here feel Odinga, too, has blood on his hands and is among many who should be held accountable in The Hague or in Kenya. “There’re a link between impunity and violence,” says Human Rights Watch’s Elizabeth Evenson. “The ICC contributed to breaking that link, but it’s not enough.”" |
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bob
Full Member
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Post by bob on Mar 3, 2013 8:59:34 GMT 3
This Canadian writer deserves a medal for writing a fair & balanced article on the ICC issue. Who can argue with this? "Kenyatta was indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity for the violence that followed the 2007 election, as was his running mate, William Ruto. If they win, it raises the vexing possibility that, as Odinga suggested at a presidential debate, Kenyatta would be forced to “run the government by Skype from The Hague.”
It was a good one-liner, but many here feel Odinga, too, has blood on his hands and is among many who should be held accountable in The Hague or in Kenya. “There’re a link between impunity and violence,” says Human Rights Watch’s Elizabeth Evenson. “The ICC contributed to breaking that link, but it’s not enough.”"clap, clap, clap any article that includes RAO in any wrong doing is balanced as long as it excludes Kibaki who was party to the presidential elections. |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 3, 2013 13:18:29 GMT 3
This Canadian writer deserves a medal for writing a fair & balanced article on the ICC issue. Who can argue with this? "Kenyatta was indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity for the violence that followed the 2007 election, as was his running mate, William Ruto. If they win, it raises the vexing possibility that, as Odinga suggested at a presidential debate, Kenyatta would be forced to “run the government by Skype from The Hague.”
It was a good one-liner, but many here feel Odinga, too, has blood on his hands and is among many who should be held accountable in The Hague or in Kenya. “There’re a link between impunity and violence,” says Human Rights Watch’s Elizabeth Evenson. “The ICC contributed to breaking that link, but it’s not enough.”"B6K, The Washington Post says the same too..... www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/whats-at-stake-in-kenyas-presidential-election/2013/03/02/7e8f4f66-829e-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.htmlMuch of what caused the violence, however, hasn’t changed — starting with the political leaders who organized and led it. One of the leading presidential candidates, Uhuru Kenyatta, and his vice-presidential running mate, William Ruto, have been indicted by the International Criminal Court (ICC) for their roles in the 2007-08 bloodletting; the other, Raila Odinga, probably should have been. Though a national human rights commission recommended more than 200 people for prosecution, only a handful of trials have taken place. Politics remains driven by ethnicity, and corruption is still rampant. |
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Post by b6k on Mar 3, 2013 20:05:55 GMT 3
This Canadian writer deserves a medal for writing a fair & balanced article on the ICC issue. Who can argue with this? "Kenyatta was indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity for the violence that followed the 2007 election, as was his running mate, William Ruto. If they win, it raises the vexing possibility that, as Odinga suggested at a presidential debate, Kenyatta would be forced to “run the government by Skype from The Hague.”
It was a good one-liner, but many here feel Odinga, too, has blood on his hands and is among many who should be held accountable in The Hague or in Kenya. “There’re a link between impunity and violence,” says Human Rights Watch’s Elizabeth Evenson. “The ICC contributed to breaking that link, but it’s not enough.”"clap, clap, clap any article that includes RAO in any wrong doing is balanced as long as it excludes Kibaki who was party to the presidential elections. I have always said both Raila & Kibaki should've been at The Hague. Whether Kibaki rigged or not has since been pegged to the plausible but not provable column by the likes of Kriegler. Hopefully as the cases at the ICC unfold there will be enough evidence to link the two to PEV crimes... |
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Post by b6k on Mar 3, 2013 20:07:48 GMT 3
This Canadian writer deserves a medal for writing a fair & balanced article on the ICC issue. Who can argue with this? "Kenyatta was indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity for the violence that followed the 2007 election, as was his running mate, William Ruto. If they win, it raises the vexing possibility that, as Odinga suggested at a presidential debate, Kenyatta would be forced to “run the government by Skype from The Hague.”
It was a good one-liner, but many here feel Odinga, too, has blood on his hands and is among many who should be held accountable in The Hague or in Kenya. “There’re a link between impunity and violence,” says Human Rights Watch’s Elizabeth Evenson. “The ICC contributed to breaking that link, but it’s not enough.”"B6K, The Washington Post says the same too..... www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/whats-at-stake-in-kenyas-presidential-election/2013/03/02/7e8f4f66-829e-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.htmlMuch of what caused the violence, however, hasn’t changed — starting with the political leaders who organized and led it. One of the leading presidential candidates, Uhuru Kenyatta, and his vice-presidential running mate, William Ruto, have been indicted by the International Criminal Court (ICC) for their roles in the 2007-08 bloodletting; the other, Raila Odinga, probably should have been. Though a national human rights commission recommended more than 200 people for prosecution, only a handful of trials have taken place. Politics remains driven by ethnicity, and corruption is still rampant. It remains a remote possibility that a president Raila may find himself summoned by the ICC someday. The 200 people are not off the hook by a long shot. If anything they should be praying the ICC cases collapse harder than Uhuru & Ruto who at least already know what they are facing.... |
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Post by furaha on Mar 3, 2013 20:23:48 GMT 3
I have always said both Raila & Kibaki should've been at The Hague. Whether Kibaki rigged or not has since been pegged to the plausible but not provable column by the likes of Kriegler. Hopefully as the cases at the ICC unfold there will be enough evidence to link the two to PEV crimes... Let's not confuse political responsibility with criminal responsibility. The latter is what the ICC is about. Political responsibility is something completely different. That's not in the ICC's mandate. I personally think it is rather unlikely that the ICC cases will yield specific and sufficient evidence that Kibaki and Odinga have crimes against humanity charges to answer (except perhaps in case Muthaura decides to implicate Kibaki and has the evidence to prove it). Will the trials yield information that suggests Kibaki and Raila are criminally responsible but that their crimes do not meet the threshold of crimes against humanity? Who knows? What if it does? Well then it is up to the reformed Kenyan courts to take them on. Then we are talking about domestic crimes. I do not yet see Kenyan courts eagerly awaiting the opportunity to try the two co-principals..... |
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Post by furaha on Mar 3, 2013 20:40:50 GMT 3
B6K, The Washington Post says the same too..... www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/whats-at-stake-in-kenyas-presidential-election/2013/03/02/7e8f4f66-829e-11e2-b99e-6baf4ebe42df_story.htmlMuch of what caused the violence, however, hasn’t changed — starting with the political leaders who organized and led it. One of the leading presidential candidates, Uhuru Kenyatta, and his vice-presidential running mate, William Ruto, have been indicted by the International Criminal Court (ICC) for their roles in the 2007-08 bloodletting; the other, Raila Odinga, probably should have been. Though a national human rights commission recommended more than 200 people for prosecution, only a handful of trials have taken place. Politics remains driven by ethnicity, and corruption is still rampant. .... B6k Exactly. I have always believed that the strong resistance to taking the O-4 to The Hague is fuelled by the fact that scores of other folks are worried that they themselves will be adversely mentioned in the course of the proceedings before the ICC judges. Think of all those who attended State House meetings, all those who attended planning meetings in the Rift valley and many, many others. And indeed, their names will no doubt come up, and to start with those of Hussein Ali and Henry Kosgey. The prosecutor may not have been able to establish that they had to answer for crimes against humanity but they probably committed very serious domestic crimes. When they returned from The Hague they were received as innocent victims of a conspiracy, while what was really called for was a domestic court taking a strong interest in them. The real elephant in the room is not the ICC itself, the real elephant is the large group of people who aided and abetted the O-4 and who are now dead worried that their names will come up. They have a lot to lose... Furaha |
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Post by mank on Mar 4, 2013 19:40:13 GMT 3
It remains a remote possibility that a president Raila may find himself summoned by the ICC someday. The 200 people are not off the hook by a long shot. If anything they should be praying the ICC cases collapse harder than Uhuru & Ruto who at least already know what they are facing....
Exactly. I have always believed that the strong resistance to taking the O-4 to The Hague is fuelled by the fact that scores of other folks are worried that they themselves will be adversely mentioned in the course of the proceedings before the ICC judges. Think of all those who attended State House meetings, all those who attended planning meetings in the Rift valley and many, many others.
And indeed, their names will no doubt come up, and to start with those of Hussein Ali and Henry Kosgey. The prosecutor may not have been able to establish that they had to answer for crimes against humanity but they probably committed very serious domestic crimes. When they returned from The Hague they were received as innocent victims of a conspiracy, while what was really called for was a domestic court taking a strong interest in them.
The real elephant in the room is not the ICC itself, the real elephant is the large group of people who aided and abetted the O-4 and who are now dead worried that their names will come up. They have a lot to lose...
FurahaFuraha, In the contrary, I believe it is becasue the guy is not credible. There are some things we know as fundamental truths, and when someone lies in an area he is not very familiar with, then he an easily violate some of those fundamental truths. The guy did exactly that, and only those who don't know those fundamental truths still continue to see currency in the guy. I don't feel like repeating myself on those, as I voiced them here the day the evidence was presented in the hearings. They have also been talked about, but dimissed by the OTP ... an institution that is particularly naive to those fundamental truths. |
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Post by samson on Mar 7, 2013 7:16:52 GMT 3
If wittness number 4 lied, who compromised him, was he bribed to implicate o-4?by OTP or KHRC, or did o-4 bribe him? How many others are liars?
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