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Post by kamalet on Mar 6, 2013 7:54:37 GMT 3
Yesterday in what I believed to be a misstatement by the IEBC Chairman, it was suggested that in determining the winner, it is the TOTAL votes cast that would be used to determine the threshhold in which a winner is announced. In saying this it was suggested that even REJECTED (or spoilt) would be used as part of the total votes cast!
So we are now down to a situation where we are looking at the english language in its literal meaning whilst perhaps the sensible thing would have been to use the intention of the drafters. My argument here is that if a vote is not attributable to anyone then it should never count and there are many reasons for this especially when you consider reasons for rejection of the vote. For instance, if one ballot belonging to a senator ends up in the presidential box, the rule is that it should be rejected. But according to Isaack, it would appear that this vote is deemed cast and valid for counting!
I am struggling to see how anyone back the argument that the intention of the constitution was that all cast votes would count. There is no legal basis for such an argument either and perhaps the Florida Votes in the Bush-Gore election would be sufficient guide as to what is acceptable and can be allocated to either of the candidates - 'hanging chads'!!!
The problem also brings to fore the assumed liability of candidates to spoilt votes where a leading candidate is allocated more of the spoilt votes arbitrarily since according to the IEBC the allocation is pro-rata to the votes that a candidate has! This presumes that if 20% of the spoilt votes are from Kiambu and another 30% from Nyeri which means 50% of the votes rejected are from Uhuru's strongholds, Raila would be forced to take a share of this and vice versa. There is simply no logic in this as to why Raila should be 'punished' for mistakes of voters that do not even support him??!!! You can look at it in reverse!
The other unfortunate thing that this announcement brings is the sense of an attempt at disenfranchising one of the candidates who will be negatively affected if the denominator included the rejected votes. It adds unnecessary tension to the election that the IEBC has failed to manage well despite the great patience shown by Kenyans.
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Post by mank on Mar 6, 2013 8:26:40 GMT 3
It is an absurdity, of course!
What IEBC is doing is defining a 9th candidate, a one "Bad". This is the only way all votes cast can be 100% both when counted as "Cast", and "across candidates". The sane way to go about it, of course, is to conclude that if a vote is "BAD" it is as good as "not casted." It makes no sense whatsoever to count votes that are "not valid." otherwise if they must be counted, they must also be attributed to a candidate.
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Post by kamalet on Mar 6, 2013 8:35:06 GMT 3
Unfortunately this is being argued from the present status of the vote and one would imagine if the shoe was changed the argument would not hold!
The IEBC cannot justify the money spent on civic education by trying to pass on their failure to candidates!
So yes, let us not have a 9th candidate called rejected!
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Post by b6k on Mar 6, 2013 9:52:30 GMT 3
Whether it is total votes cast or total valid votes, UK is still holding his own, if things do not drastically change. If he can retain a 10 point + lead, that is enough to absorb the rejected votes & still leave him with 50% + one (even with Deiyings projections on another thread). Question is, has he attained the 25% in half the counties or more? If indeed he has, then will Raila be able to man up & concede defeat knowing full well he would not win a runoff based on a 50% + one defeat in the first round? This could be the most important & selfless act he could perform as a senior statesman to save the nation from the need of a lengthy electioneering period with more campaigns before the runoff, not to mention save the coffers billions of shillings to boot. That is what we should be thinking about. A lot of criticism is being directed at the IEBC for lack of voter education. I don't think that is warranted. If even an gubernatorial aspirant who is no less than the Minister for Higher Education spoilt her own vote, how can the IEBC be blamed for that? Most people were surprised yesterday in Uasin Gishu County when Higher Education Minister Margaret Kamar spoilt her own vote by placing it in a wrong ballot box. Kamar who is gunning for the gubernatorial seat marked her ballot papers properly and when it came to placing it in the right ballot box, she got mixed up and placed it in a different one. She placed that of the governess in the senator 's ballot box and that of the senator in the governor's one.
www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-110467/corridors-powerIf a majority of the rejected votes were of the above (ie colour blind voters putting ballots in the wrong box) kind, then I say count the darned things so long as they are not spoilt ballots (double marking & all the other things that would have rejected a vote in the first place).... |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 6, 2013 10:14:09 GMT 3
Whether it is total votes cast or total valid votes, UK is still holding his own, if things do not drastically change. If he can retain a 10 point + lead, that is enough to absorb the rejected votes & still leave him with 50% + one (even with Deiyings projections on another thread). Question is, has he attained the 25% in half the counties or more? If indeed he has, then will Raila be able to man up & concede defeat knowing full well he would not win a runoff based on a 50% + one defeat in the first round? This could be the most important & selfless act he could perform as a senior statesman to save the nation from the need of a lengthy electioneering period with more campaigns before the runoff, not to mention save the coffers billions of shillings to boot. That is what we should be thinking about. A lot of criticism is being directed at the IEBC for lack of voter education. I don't think that is warranted. If even an gubernatorial aspirant who is no less than the Minister for Higher Education spoilt her own vote, how can the IEBC be blamed for that? Most people were surprised yesterday in Uasin Gishu County when Higher Education Minister Margaret Kamar spoilt her own vote by placing it in a wrong ballot box. Kamar who is gunning for the gubernatorial seat marked her ballot papers properly and when it came to placing it in the right ballot box, she got mixed up and placed it in a different one. She placed that of the governess in the senator 's ballot box and that of the senator in the governor's one.
www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-110467/corridors-powerIf a majority of the rejected votes were of the above (ie colour blind voters putting ballots in the wrong box) kind, then I say count the darned things so long as they are not spoilt ballots (double marking & all the other things that would have rejected a vote in the first place).... B6k Current tally on the 25% rule on counties has Uhuru with 36 and Raila with 29. This was always going to be an easy one to attain! |
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Post by mank on Mar 6, 2013 11:08:11 GMT 3
Whether it is total votes cast or total valid votes, UK is still holding his own, if things do not drastically change. If he can retain a 10 point + lead, that is enough to absorb the rejected votes & still leave him with 50% + one (even with Deiyings projections on another thread). Question is, has he attained the 25% in half the counties or more? If indeed he has, then will Raila be able to man up & concede defeat knowing full well he would not win a runoff based on a 50% + one defeat in the first round? This could be the most important & selfless act he could perform as a senior statesman to save the nation from the need of a lengthy electioneering period with more campaigns before the runoff, not to mention save the coffers billions of shillings to boot. That is what we should be thinking about. A lot of criticism is being directed at the IEBC for lack of voter education. I don't think that is warranted. If even an gubernatorial aspirant who is no less than the Minister for Higher Education spoilt her own vote, how can the IEBC be blamed for that? Most people were surprised yesterday in Uasin Gishu County when Higher Education Minister Margaret Kamar spoilt her own vote by placing it in a wrong ballot box. Kamar who is gunning for the gubernatorial seat marked her ballot papers properly and when it came to placing it in the right ballot box, she got mixed up and placed it in a different one. She placed that of the governess in the senator 's ballot box and that of the senator in the governor's one.
www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-110467/corridors-powerIf a majority of the rejected votes were of the above (ie colour blind voters putting ballots in the wrong box) kind, then I say count the darned things so long as they are not spoilt ballots (double marking & all the other things that would have rejected a vote in the first place).... Phil tells us that the votes are being recounted. I wonder what went wrong ... perhaps a counting clerk forgot whether it was "carry 10" or "carry 20" .... let's correct that: "carry 1", or "carry 2". Phil didn't go into the details although he seems to know something. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 6, 2013 11:13:22 GMT 3
Mank
Phil's problem is how Cord understands English! First it was on the rejected votes being counted to the manual reconfirmation of transmitted data and where none was transmitted, the data is manually keyed into the system.
For the sake of clarity, IEBC on the expectation that the system would work as planned, was that provisional results based on the electronic transmission would be ready in 48 hours. The seven day threshhold was to allow reconfirmation from Signed Forms that they agree with electronic data held by them.
Recounting would mean having all ballot boxes over to Nairobi and starting a manual count!!!
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Post by mank on Mar 6, 2013 11:18:09 GMT 3
Mank
Phil's problem is how Cord understands English! First it was on the rejected votes being counted to the manual reconfirmation of transmitted data and where none was transmitted, the data is manually keyed into the system.
For the sake of clarity, IEBC on the expectation that the system would work as planned, was that provisional results based on the electronic transmission would be ready in 48 hours. The seven day threshhold was to allow reconfirmation from Signed Forms that they agree with electronic data held by them.
Recounting would mean having all ballot boxes over to Nairobi and starting a manual count!!! Thanks Kamale. I wish the candidates would again assure us that they will accept the verdict of the people with grace rather than keep us counting, recounting and over-prosecuting technical glitches. Its getting tense .... especially as propagandist find aids to go to work with! |
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Post by b6k on Mar 6, 2013 11:41:56 GMT 3
Whether it is total votes cast or total valid votes, UK is still holding his own, if things do not drastically change. If he can retain a 10 point + lead, that is enough to absorb the rejected votes & still leave him with 50% + one (even with Deiyings projections on another thread). Question is, has he attained the 25% in half the counties or more? If indeed he has, then will Raila be able to man up & concede defeat knowing full well he would not win a runoff based on a 50% + one defeat in the first round? This could be the most important & selfless act he could perform as a senior statesman to save the nation from the need of a lengthy electioneering period with more campaigns before the runoff, not to mention save the coffers billions of shillings to boot. That is what we should be thinking about. A lot of criticism is being directed at the IEBC for lack of voter education. I don't think that is warranted. If even an gubernatorial aspirant who is no less than the Minister for Higher Education spoilt her own vote, how can the IEBC be blamed for that? Most people were surprised yesterday in Uasin Gishu County when Higher Education Minister Margaret Kamar spoilt her own vote by placing it in a wrong ballot box. Kamar who is gunning for the gubernatorial seat marked her ballot papers properly and when it came to placing it in the right ballot box, she got mixed up and placed it in a different one. She placed that of the governess in the senator 's ballot box and that of the senator in the governor's one.
www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-110467/corridors-powerIf a majority of the rejected votes were of the above (ie colour blind voters putting ballots in the wrong box) kind, then I say count the darned things so long as they are not spoilt ballots (double marking & all the other things that would have rejected a vote in the first place).... B6k Current tally on the 25% rule on counties has Uhuru with 36 and Raila with 29. This was always going to be an easy one to attain! , with the kind of lead UK has & having comfortably attained the 25% rule then his camp should actually allow the rejected votes to be counted. Yesterday while the rejected votes count stood at just over 200k one of the TV anchors mentioned that a whopping 100k (or 50%) of rejected votes were in Kiambu County alone! If the trends, that have remained constant, continue to do so, then it would mean that there must be well over 100k + votes from Kiambu alone going Jubilee's way. I don't see CORD gaining much ground on rejected votes alone which are high nationwide & not just in "CORDed" areas.... |
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Post by b6k on Mar 6, 2013 11:43:37 GMT 3
Whether it is total votes cast or total valid votes, UK is still holding his own, if things do not drastically change. If he can retain a 10 point + lead, that is enough to absorb the rejected votes & still leave him with 50% + one (even with Deiyings projections on another thread). Question is, has he attained the 25% in half the counties or more? If indeed he has, then will Raila be able to man up & concede defeat knowing full well he would not win a runoff based on a 50% + one defeat in the first round? This could be the most important & selfless act he could perform as a senior statesman to save the nation from the need of a lengthy electioneering period with more campaigns before the runoff, not to mention save the coffers billions of shillings to boot. That is what we should be thinking about. A lot of criticism is being directed at the IEBC for lack of voter education. I don't think that is warranted. If even an gubernatorial aspirant who is no less than the Minister for Higher Education spoilt her own vote, how can the IEBC be blamed for that? Most people were surprised yesterday in Uasin Gishu County when Higher Education Minister Margaret Kamar spoilt her own vote by placing it in a wrong ballot box. Kamar who is gunning for the gubernatorial seat marked her ballot papers properly and when it came to placing it in the right ballot box, she got mixed up and placed it in a different one. She placed that of the governess in the senator 's ballot box and that of the senator in the governor's one.
www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-110467/corridors-powerIf a majority of the rejected votes were of the above (ie colour blind voters putting ballots in the wrong box) kind, then I say count the darned things so long as they are not spoilt ballots (double marking & all the other things that would have rejected a vote in the first place).... Phil tells us that the votes are being recounted. I wonder what went wrong ... perhaps a counting clerk forgot whether it was "carry 10" or "carry 20" .... let's correct that: "carry 1", or "carry 2". Phil didn't go into the details although he seems to know something. , where is Phil saying all this? |
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Post by roughrider on Mar 6, 2013 12:16:54 GMT 3
I am writing to reclaim my 'rejected' vote.
My friends and I are patriotic Kenyans. We were shocked by the decision to allow a pair of ICC indictees to be on the ballot of our presidential elections. We felt that this was illegal and unconstitutional. But we are civic minded and patriotic. We decided to participate in the elections only to protest against a great injustice. We wanted our votes to count as a protest.
I therefore marked X on Uhuru and X on Ruto. This was intentional. I knew, having read carefully the constitution that my vote would be cast, counted and tallied but would not be in favour of any candidate.
My brother, decided to protest in a different way. Having marked ballots by ticking for Raila Odinga, Evans Kidero, Margaret Wanjiru among others; he decided to deliberately put the presidential ballot in the governor’s box and the governor’s ballot in the senator’s box and interchanged the civic with the parliamentary. He insisted that he knew, from IEBC civic education meetings that while these ballots would be considered cast, they would not be counted in favour of any particular candidate.
My sister marked X for Uhuru Kenyatta, Clifford Waititu, and Sonko among others and then, patriotically, proudly and deliberately cast her votes in the wrong boxes.
All my relatives and friends, hundreds of thousands of us, many living in IDP camps, decided to write all manner of protest messages on the ballots before casting them. We also mixed up ballot boxes. But as patriotic Kenyans, we cast our votes after standing in the hot sun for hours. Nobody should try to interpret our wishes as anything else other than what they are: cast ballots for no one in particular to protest a choice of indicted rapists, murderers and criminals on our ballot.
Guys – let’s all remain calm and peaceful as results are tallied.
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Post by podp on Mar 6, 2013 12:35:54 GMT 3
I am writing to reclaim my 'rejected' vote. My friends and I are patriotic Kenyans. We were shocked by the decision to allow a pair of ICC indictees to be on the ballot of our presidential elections. We felt that this was illegal and unconstitutional. But we are civic minded and patriotic. We decided to participate in the elections only to protest against a great injustice. We wanted our votes to count as a protest. I therefore marked X on Uhuru and X on Ruto. This was intentional. I knew, having read carefully the constitution that my vote would be cast, counted and tallied but would not be in favour of any candidate. My brother, decided to protest in a different way. Having marked ballots by ticking for Raila Odinga, Evans Kidero, Margaret Wanjiru among others; he decided to deliberately put the presidential ballot in the governor’s box and the governor’s ballot in the senator’s box and interchanged the civic with the parliamentary. He insisted that he knew, from IEBC civic education meetings that while these ballots would be considered cast, they would not be counted in favour of any particular candidate. My sister marked X for Uhuru Kenyatta, Clifford Waititu, and Sonko among others and then, patriotically, proudly and deliberately cast her votes in the wrong boxes.All my relatives and friends, hundreds of thousands of us, many living in IDP camps, decided to write all manner of protest messages on the ballots before casting them. We also mixed up ballot boxes. But as patriotic Kenyans, we cast our votes after standing in the hot sun for hours. Nobody should try to interpret our wishes as anything else other than what they are: cast ballots for no one in particular to protest a choice of indicted rapists, murderers and criminals on our ballot. Guys – let’s all remain calm and peaceful as results are tallied. Most people were surprised yesterday in Uasin Gishu County when Higher Education Minister Margaret Kamar spoilt her own vote by placing it in a wrong ballot box. Kamar who is gunning for the gubernatorial seat marked her ballot papers properly and when it came to placing it in the right ballot box, she got mixed up and placed it in a different one. She placed that of the governess in the senator 's ballot box and that of the senator in the governor's one. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-110467/corridors-power |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 6, 2013 12:40:04 GMT 3
Kamale ,
Your is a valid point and if the so called " rejected votes" will be the reason to take the presidential contest to a runnoff then in future Presidential elections should never be held with the other elections for senate , Governors, Women rep, County rep and Member of National Assembly else we create another candidate each and every election known as the the "rejected Votes" who will be costing the taxpayer an additional 6 billion Kenya shillings and wastage of another month in enduring campaigns. This is with the assumption that the biggest percentage of the rejected votes are those correctly marked but put in the wrong ballot boxes.
Incase the biggest percentage of the rejected votes are the ones with irregularities in the marking etc then we will still have Mr "Rejected votes" featuring also in the Presidential Runooff and might play a big role in ensuring we dont have a clear candidate attaining the required 50% +1 threshold required in declaring the winner.
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Post by roughrider on Mar 6, 2013 13:04:03 GMT 3
I am writing to reclaim my 'rejected' vote. My friends and I are patriotic Kenyans. We were shocked by the decision to allow a pair of ICC indictees to be on the ballot of our presidential elections. We felt that this was illegal and unconstitutional. But we are civic minded and patriotic. We decided to participate in the elections only to protest against a great injustice. We wanted our votes to count as a protest. I therefore marked X on Uhuru and X on Ruto. This was intentional. I knew, having read carefully the constitution that my vote would be cast, counted and tallied but would not be in favour of any candidate. My brother, decided to protest in a different way. Having marked ballots by ticking for Raila Odinga, Evans Kidero, Margaret Wanjiru among others; he decided to deliberately put the presidential ballot in the governor’s box and the governor’s ballot in the senator’s box and interchanged the civic with the parliamentary. He insisted that he knew, from IEBC civic education meetings that while these ballots would be considered cast, they would not be counted in favour of any particular candidate. My sister marked X for Uhuru Kenyatta, Clifford Waititu, and Sonko among others and then, patriotically, proudly and deliberately cast her votes in the wrong boxes.All my relatives and friends, hundreds of thousands of us, many living in IDP camps, decided to write all manner of protest messages on the ballots before casting them. We also mixed up ballot boxes. But as patriotic Kenyans, we cast our votes after standing in the hot sun for hours. Nobody should try to interpret our wishes as anything else other than what they are: cast ballots for no one in particular to protest a choice of indicted rapists, murderers and criminals on our ballot. Guys – let’s all remain calm and peaceful as results are tallied. Most people were surprised yesterday in Uasin Gishu County when Higher Education Minister Margaret Kamar spoilt her own vote by placing it in a wrong ballot box. Kamar who is gunning for the gubernatorial seat marked her ballot papers properly and when it came to placing it in the right ballot box, she got mixed up and placed it in a different one. She placed that of the governess in the senator 's ballot box and that of the senator in the governor's one. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-110467/corridors-powerPoor Margaret Kamar. She is not my relative. I pity her. I know somebody else who mistakenly voted for the wrong candidate and informed the presiding officer just after casting. Nothing could be done! If we can correct kamar's mistake then we must correct all other such mistakes. But my sister-in-law who lives in Kamar's constituency did exactly the same thing as Kamar. Only deliberately! |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 6, 2013 13:39:45 GMT 3
Most people were surprised yesterday in Uasin Gishu County when Higher Education Minister Margaret Kamar spoilt her own vote by placing it in a wrong ballot box. Kamar who is gunning for the gubernatorial seat marked her ballot papers properly and when it came to placing it in the right ballot box, she got mixed up and placed it in a different one. She placed that of the governess in the senator 's ballot box and that of the senator in the governor's one. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-110467/corridors-powerPoor Margaret Kamar. She is not my relative. I pity her. I know somebody else who mistakenly voted for the wrong candidate and informed the presiding officer just after casting. Nothing could be done! If we can correct kamar's mistake then we must correct all other such mistakes. But my sister-in-law who lives in Kamar's constituency did exactly the same thing as Kamar. Only deliberately! That was funny but on the flip-side If the rejected votes will count in the final tally this will be a welcome call and will send a message loud and clear in future to the citizens who are not happy by neither of the presidential candidates and knowing if they can vote and make sure that they have their votes rejected and that the votes will count then in the near future the rejected votes might actually amount to more than the 50 % + 1 there by causing a crisis in the presidential elections -Remember a lot of citizens never registered for the elections because the candidates weren't appealing to them. IEBC should be careful with the decision they make-remember most of the stations have already announced their member of parliaments results and from the results its evident the races were tight remember the rejected results are not confined to presidential results only and thus the candidates who have lost in the other posts will use IEBC decision in the presidential results to contest the election outcome in the other elections , is IEBC ready to recount or ready to handle the court cases which will come as a result of their decision ? They need to tread carefully this is not as simple as it appears . |
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Post by podp on Mar 6, 2013 14:22:23 GMT 3
Poor Margaret Kamar. She is not my relative. I pity her. I know somebody else who mistakenly voted for the wrong candidate and informed the presiding officer just after casting. Nothing could be done! If we can correct kamar's mistake then we must correct all other such mistakes. But my sister-in-law who lives in Kamar's constituency did exactly the same thing as Kamar. Only deliberately! That was funny but on the flip-side If the rejected votes will count in the final tally this will be a welcome call and will send a message loud and clear in future to the citizens who are not happy by neither of the presidential candidates and knowing if they can vote and make sure that they have their votes rejected and that the votes will count then in the near future the rejected votes might actually amount to more than the 50 % + 1 there by causing a crisis in the presidential elections -Remember a lot of citizens never registered for the elections because the candidates weren't appealing to them. IEBC should be careful with the decision they make-remember most of the stations have already announced their member of parliaments results and from the results its evident the races were tight remember the rejected results are not confined to presidential results only and thus the candidates who have lost in the other posts will use IEBC decision in the presidential results to contest the election outcome in the other elections , is IEBC ready to recount or ready to handle the court cases which will come as a result of their decision ? They need to tread carefully this is not as simple as it appears . we will then think of amending Article 138 of our Constitution to stop reading (4) A candidate shall be declared elected as President if the candidate receives— (a) more than half of all the votes cast in the election; and (b) at least twenty-five per cent of the votes cast in each of more than half of the counties. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 6, 2013 15:04:34 GMT 3
Found this legal notice in Kenyalaw.org
LEGAL NOTICE NO. 128,THE ELECTIONS ACT,(No. 24 of 2011)
THE ELECTIONS (GENERAL) REGULATIONS, 2012
ARRANGEMENT OF REGULATION
77. (1) At the counting of votes at an election, any ballot paper—
(a) which does not bear the security features determined by the
Commission;
(b) on which votes are marked, or appears to be marked against
the names of, more than one candidate;
(c) on which anything is written or so marked as to be uncertain
for whom the vote has been cast;
(d) which bears a serial number different from the serial number
of the respective polling station and which cannot be verified
from the counterfoil of ballot papers used at that polling
station; or
(e) is unmarked,
shall, subject to subregulation (2), be void and shall not be counted.
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Post by roughrider on Mar 6, 2013 16:02:22 GMT 3
Found this legal notice in Kenyalaw.org LEGAL NOTICE NO. 128,THE ELECTIONS ACT,(No. 24 of 2011) THE ELECTIONS (GENERAL) REGULATIONS, 2012 ARRANGEMENT OF REGULATION 77. (1) At the counting of votes at an election, any ballot paper— (a) which does not bear the security features determined by the Commission; (b) on which votes are marked, or appears to be marked against the names of, more than one candidate; (c) on which anything is written or so marked as to be uncertain for whom the vote has been cast; (d) which bears a serial number different from the serial number of the respective polling station and which cannot be verified from the counterfoil of ballot papers used at that polling station; or (e) is unmarked, shall, subject to subregulation (2), be void and shall not be counted.Oh you found a legal notice? Somebody quoted a section of the constitution. Which is right? |
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Post by podp on Mar 6, 2013 16:24:02 GMT 3
Found this legal notice in Kenyalaw.org LEGAL NOTICE NO. 128,THE ELECTIONS ACT,(No. 24 of 2011) THE ELECTIONS (GENERAL) REGULATIONS, 2012 ARRANGEMENT OF REGULATION 77. (1) At the counting of votes at an election, any ballot paper— (a) which does not bear the security features determined by the Commission; (b) on which votes are marked, or appears to be marked against the names of, more than one candidate; (c) on which anything is written or so marked as to be uncertain for whom the vote has been cast; (d) which bears a serial number different from the serial number of the respective polling station and which cannot be verified from the counterfoil of ballot papers used at that polling station; or (e) is unmarked, shall, subject to subregulation (2), be void and shall not be counted.Oh you found a legal notice? Somebody quoted a section of the constitution. Which is right? the Constitution gives general line, while Acts of parliament and legal notices elaborate the general line in details. for most functioning government bodies guideline(s) go into even greater details. Constitutions, Acts and Legal Notices are legally binding (laws of the land) while guidelines can be argued but 'clever' people use guidelines to ensure they never are on the wrong side of the law |
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Post by abdulmote on Mar 6, 2013 16:30:54 GMT 3
Does any body understand the logic behind rejecting the ballot papers that have been cast in a 'wrong coloured' box?
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Post by roughrider on Mar 6, 2013 16:31:00 GMT 3
Oh you found a legal notice? Somebody quoted a section of the constitution. Which is right? the Constitution gives general line, while Acts of parliament and legal notices elaborate the general line in details. for most functioning government bodies guideline(s) go into even greater details. Constitutions, Acts and Legal Notices are legally binding (laws of the land) while guidelines can be argued but 'clever' people use guidelines to ensure they never are on the wrong side of the law Thank you. I thought this was obvious. The question is, Katiba is so clear and specific on an issue as you had quoted here. Is there any need to bother looking for some other legal provision? Bottom line, my vote and those of my relatives - he ones we cast in protest to no one in particular - must count! |
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Post by roughrider on Mar 6, 2013 16:38:21 GMT 3
Does any body understand the logic behind rejecting the ballot papers that have been cast in a 'wrong coloured' box? The logic is this: the vote is not valid. It has been cast but it is not valid since it is not decipherable what the voter intended. In my case, I did this in order to protest ICC suspects on the ballot. Nobody has a right to try and put for me the vote where they 'think' I wanted to put it. They have all been counted and tallied as required by Katiba. |
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Post by mank on Mar 6, 2013 16:45:18 GMT 3
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Post by kamalet on Mar 6, 2013 17:05:49 GMT 3
Does any body understand the logic behind rejecting the ballot papers that have been cast in a 'wrong coloured' box? It is the rules Abdulmote. Each ballot box is counted for the purpose intended and if any other ballot paper not intended for that box is found, then it is deemed a cast vote that is not valid! |
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Post by abdulmote on Mar 6, 2013 17:06:43 GMT 3
Does any body understand the logic behind rejecting the ballot papers that have been cast in a 'wrong coloured' box? The logic is this: the vote is not valid. It has been cast but it is not valid since it is not decipherable what the voter intended. They have all been counted and tallied as required by Katiba. RR, Katiba issue aside, once a ballot paper has been correctly marked by the voter, by appropriately choosing their preferred candidate, using appropriate paper, then there should be nothing else that needs to be "deciphered". The voter's intention would have been obvious at that stage. Putting the paper into any specific box should only be a matter of convenience towards the final sorting and counting and has nothing to do with the voter's choice. I still don't get it. |
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