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Post by Horth on Mar 13, 2013 19:58:25 GMT 3
For any student out there or anyone generally unfamiliar with informal fallacies reading this, this is what is known as the fallacy of hasty generalization in logic. It's also the worst example in terms of its depth in wrongness comparable only to the big lie that Uhuru beat Raila by the margins claimed by the heavily compromised IEBC. You’re serious, aren’t you? Isn’t it a fallacy for you to want us to believe you when you write the IEBC is heavily compromised without providing any proof whatsoever? |
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 13, 2013 20:11:59 GMT 3
In Kenya? We rigged our own primary elections [at the nominations stage]. Those who spoke up we called them TNA moles, and denounced them as traitors. A few weeks later we were rigged out  . We shouted thief! Everybody shrugged and laughed --Gosh! don't they have a sense of humour, them ODMers! And the cynic otishotish added: a taste of their own medicine! served them right! For any student out there or anyone generally unfamiliar with informal fallacies reading this, this is what is known as the fallacy of hasty generalization in logic. It's also the worst example in terms of its depth in wrongness comparable only to the big lie that Uhuru beat Raila by the margins claimed by the heavily compromised IEBC. I await the tutorial, Omwenga Ori. ''''the big lie that Uhuru beat Raila by the margins claimed [CERTIFIED?] by etc etc....' must first convince me it is not fallacious! I am afraid you are captive to illusions. |
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 14, 2013 0:13:04 GMT 3
For any student out there or anyone generally unfamiliar with informal fallacies reading this, this is what is known as the fallacy of hasty generalization in logic. It's also the worst example in terms of its depth in wrongness comparable only to the big lie that Uhuru beat Raila by the margins claimed by the heavily compromised IEBC. I await the tutorial, Omwenga Ori. ''''the big lie that Uhuru beat Raila by the margins claimed [CERTIFIED?] by etc etc....' must first convince me it is not fallacious! I am afraid you are captive to illusions. Ori Jakaswanga,No; I am not and neither have I ever been captive to any illusion. All the evidence needed to nullify the bogus announcement by IEBC that Uhuru won will be presented in court and we expect nothing but a unanimous decision granting the petition. The evidence of rigging against Cord and Raila specifically is that overwhelming. |
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 14, 2013 0:17:06 GMT 3
Isn’t it a fallacy for you to want us to believe you when you write the IEBC is heavily compromised without providing any proof whatsoever? No; that's not a fallacy even if you were to assume for the sake of argument that your proposition is true, namely, that I have asked you or anyone to believe something without any evidence. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 14, 2013 0:45:40 GMT 3
For any student out there or anyone generally unfamiliar with informal fallacies reading this, this is what is known as the fallacy of hasty generalization in logic. It's also the worst example in terms of its depth in wrongness comparable only to the big lie that Uhuru beat Raila by the margins claimed by the heavily compromised IEBC. You’re serious, aren’t you? Isn’t it a fallacy for you to want us to believe you when you write the IEBC is heavily compromised without providing any proof whatsoever? Horth Three unnamed international media houses running anexit poll are more believable than the IEBC. That is the evidence these chaps have according to Raila. |
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Post by Horth on Mar 14, 2013 9:37:58 GMT 3
No; that's not a fallacy even if you were to assume for the sake of argument that your proposition is true, namely, that I have asked you or anyone to believe something without any evidence. In 2007, almost everybody knew the elections were bogus and that Kibaki (and RAO!) had stuffed ballots. All independent observers declined to give the elections a clean bill of health. It was the talk of town. Today, only CORD is talking of rigging. All the observers have given the elections a clean bill. ELOG has even gone further and shown that the final results were consistent with their calculations. Of course Uhuru, being the richest man in Kenya, could have bought them all (including the EU observers) barely denting his fortune I guess what I'm trying to say is, if CORD does have the overwhelming evidence they claim, how come nobody else sees it? |
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Post by Horth on Mar 14, 2013 9:40:39 GMT 3
Horth Three unnamed international media houses running anexit poll are more believable than the IEBC. That is the evidence these chaps have according to Raila. So why aren't CORD releasing these so-called exit polls? It's not like the SC will base their decision on them. |
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 14, 2013 10:16:13 GMT 3
No; that's not a fallacy even if you were to assume for the sake of argument that your proposition is true, namely, that I have asked you or anyone to believe something without any evidence. In 2007, almost everybody knew the elections were bogus and that Kibaki (and RAO!) had stuffed ballots. All independent observers declined to give the elections a clean bill of health. It was the talk of town. Today, only CORD is talking of rigging. All the observers have given the elections a clean bill. ELOG has even gone further and shown that the final results were consistent with their calculations. Of course Uhuru, being the richest man in Kenya, could have bought them all (including the EU observers) barely denting his fortune I guess what I'm trying to say is, if CORD does have the overwhelming evidence they claim, how come nobody else sees it? I was one of the international observers and I have not given the elections a clean bill and neither have any of the other observers that matter. You can get any of the fringe or unknown outfits obviously bought and paid for to say whatever nonsense they say about the elections but the fact remains IEBC once again engaged in flagrant rigging in efforts to force down our throats a presidency most Kenyans going to the polls did not and still don't want. My advise to you and others in denial is to simply sit back and watch the development of events the next two weeks culminating in the nullification of the bogus results announced by the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC. We shall go to a run-off and the winner shall be declared our next president unless the reckless lot is at it again in in thieving schemes which case the people shall have the last word. |
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 14, 2013 10:24:23 GMT 3
Horth Three unnamed international media houses running anexit poll are more believable than the IEBC. That is the evidence these chaps have according to Raila. So why aren't CORD releasing these so-called exit polls? It's not like the SC will base their decision on them. There are actually four exit polls done by reputable firms both local and international but the data was not publicly released. Cord cannot release the data because none was commissioned by it. 3 of the four show Raila clearly winning over Uhuru and one shows a tie for both under 50%. One would have to be naive or foolish to think this is the only basis for Cord's petition to have the bogus IEBC results nullified; as will be shown in just a couple of days or so, there is overwhelming evidence of massive rigging we are confident the Supreme Court will nullify the bogus announcement by the obviously compromised IEBC and its presidential results in a unanimous decision. |
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Post by Horth on Mar 14, 2013 10:28:01 GMT 3
I was one of the certified international observers and I have not given the elections a clean bill and neither have any of the other observers that matter. My advise to you and others in denial is to simply sit back and watch the development of events the next two weeks culminating in the nullification of the bogus results announced by the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC. We shall go to a run-off and the winner shall be declared our next president unless the reckless lot is at it again in in thieving schemes which case the people shall have the last word. You? An observer? Aren't observers supposed to be neutral or at least pretend they are? You're good. I'm not in denial. My take is that it is CORD that is deceitful and is using underhand tricks to try and get the public to turn on the IEBC. RAO is not sitting back and waiting for the determination of the petition (which hasn’t even being filed yet). He’s publicly calling Uhruto criminals and saying that they shoud be in jail! Isn't it true that Jubilee are innocent of the allegations CORD has levied against them until the SC rules otherwise? |
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 14, 2013 10:31:09 GMT 3
I was one of the certified international observers and I have not given the elections a clean bill and neither have any of the other observers that matter. My advise to you and others in denial is to simply sit back and watch the development of events the next two weeks culminating in the nullification of the bogus results announced by the obviously compromised and incompetent IEBC. We shall go to a run-off and the winner shall be declared our next president unless the reckless lot is at it again in in thieving schemes which case the people shall have the last word. You? An observer? Aren't observers supposed to be neutral or at least pretend they are? You're good. I'm not in denial. My take is that it is CORD that is deceitful and is using underhand tricks to try and get the public to turn on the IEBC. RAO is not sitting back and waiting for the determination of the petition (which hasn’t even being filed yet). He’s publicly calling Uhruto criminals and saying that they shoud be in jail! Isn't it true that Jubilee are innocent of the allegations CORD has levied against them until the SC rules otherwise? I have not and would not call Uhuru or Ruto criminals. I think this is something Raila said in the heat of the moment I doubt he meant to say it by design. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 14, 2013 11:10:57 GMT 3
Raila in his delusion is actually looking for another nusu mkate opportunity if you are to weigh his words in Kibera and now yesterday. They have no evidence that could overturn the election and will claim frustration from IEBC and using the exit polls theory will claim that they actually won to forment trouble.it is in the quelling of this trouble that he hopes for the nusu mkate.
Watch this space
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Post by denno on Mar 14, 2013 14:59:17 GMT 3
Omwenga you seem to know what RAO intended to call Uhuru and Ruto, can you share? For now all we have a tape of is RAO calling them criminals x3.......I doubt it's a slip of the tongue. As for you being an international observer.......you are very far from being impartial
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 14, 2013 15:43:06 GMT 3
I await the tutorial, Omwenga Ori. ''''the big lie that Uhuru beat Raila by the margins claimed [CERTIFIED?] by etc etc....' must first convince me it is not fallacious! I am afraid you are captive to illusions. Ori Jakaswanga,No; I am not and neither have I ever been captive to any illusion. All the evidence needed to nullify the bogus announcement by IEBC that Uhuru won will be presented in court and we expect nothing but a unanimous decision granting the petition. The evidence of rigging against Cord and Raila specifically is that overwhelming. Omwenga, What became of the confidence you had on IEBC ? Is it because you fairly lost that IEBC became a rigging institution ? What about incase SC rules against you wishes ? will you turn around and accuse it of being corrupt and bribed by Uhuru - Kenyans are watching keenly and would advice you sometimes its good to face reality CORD/ODM lost due to its strategies and political blunders coupled with wishful thinking , self deceit and misguided belief -wake up and smell the coffee CORD/ODM you lost in 18-Dec-2012 and this was actioned on 04-Mar-2013 and confirmed on 09-Mar-2013 the courts are going (if file the petition by the way ) re-affirm this position soon. www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2013/01/raila-firmly-in-state-house-race/“Kenyans have said they do not want to see a repeat of what they saw in 2007 and 2008. We have confidence that IEBC will make that difference. I want to assure you we will conduct ourselves with dignity and that we are going to be very peaceful in our campaigns,” he pledged. |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 14, 2013 15:52:08 GMT 3
You’re serious, aren’t you? Isn’t it a fallacy for you to want us to believe you when you write the IEBC is heavily compromised without providing any proof whatsoever? Horth Three unnamed international media houses running anexit poll are more believable than the IEBC. That is the evidence these chaps have according to Raila. Kamale , And rather than report their exit polls results via their media houses or outlets they phone Raila and congratulate him .This is hilarious ))) Who sponsored the exit polls and what was the cost of commissioning the exit polls ? Which areas were they commissioned ? and what percentage of the population do they represent ? These are some of the questions which crop up in Kenyan minds . In 2007 the basis CORD/ODM used to refuse the election results and claim they were rigged was because of the Ambitho Polls and this time around after Kenyans detested the Opinion polls they now use exit polls - I pity CORD/ODM ((( |
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 14, 2013 15:57:55 GMT 3
Omwenga you seem to know what RAO intended to call Uhuru and Ruto, can you share? For now all we have a tape of is RAO calling them criminals x3.......I doubt it's a slip of the tongue. As for you being an international observer.......you are very far from being impartial Denno, Not sure what gave you the impression I "seem to know" what Raila intended to say I merely said I don't think he intended to say what he did and how said it, nothing more, nothing less. All observations I have noted--and take my word there is a lot I know I am not sharing as it's part of the petition to be filed--otherwise what else I have shared here or elsewhere is accurate and indisputable. |
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Post by kamalet on Mar 14, 2013 15:59:45 GMT 3
Nowayhaha
I think we are being treated to a juvenile charade that is simply going on and on!!!
Perhaps you have noticed that the likes of Phil have not been talking lately and even when you venture into their silent hideout in DC (No one is talking there!!!) there is little about the strenght of the petition.
I am still waiting to see their pleadings on the petition if only they can file it!!!
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 14, 2013 16:34:23 GMT 3
What became of the confidence you had on IEBC ? I have already blogged about this you must have missed it but to answer your question, I was the very first person to raise an alarm IEBC may have already been compromised more than a year ago in jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6770Several months later, I noted the following in the same thread: It's quite pleasing to say not only is the PM vigilant, so are a vast majority of Kenyans who would not stand for any recklessness on the part of those with the power to so abuse and ditto for friends of Kenya regionally and globally.
The irony of all this is, when I first raised the question of IEBC being compromised already, a lot has since happened to the point I must say those within it I suspected as being compromised already may, indeed, have been so compromised back then but there is every indication some common sense is prevailing on even those such that doing the right thing for Kenyans is now paramount, not their short-sighted and opportunistic pursuits that have so characterized much of the corrupt we have witnessed and continue to in government.
That's refreshing and one can say with some confidence there is hope, after-all, with IEBC.
I am not by saying so not saying there aren't efforts under way by KSG schemers trying to find ways to block Raila; they are but what we cannot allow them and by that I mean all Kenyans of good will cannot allow them to do is to use our governmental institutions to that end, including frustrating or exploiting IEBC.
That, we cannot allow them.Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6770&page=12#ixzz2NWEuvINTWhat actually happened is IEBC remained compromised all along but managed to fool everyone, including the PM and others I must admit, that they were not. Just within the last several days, information has come to light how exactly the body was compromised and this are things happening before the elections. As a blogger, I receive tips and information all the time from my sources especially those on the other side of the political divide but must verify before I put it out there if it's something I deem apt for public consumption or share privately with only those who need to know and this. Much of what we know about how the rigging was done will be presented in court and we are confident the decision will be unanimous that there was, indeed, massive and flagrant rigging and that therefore the results announced by the obviously compromised IEBC are bogus and shall not be given any effect at all. A strategic decision has been made by Cord, in my belief, not to seek an outright declaration of Raila as the winner but having the two, namely, Raila and Uhuru go for a run-off. This is the only outcome which will save our country from going up in flames worse than what we saw in 2008. Put another way, there will be no reason to ever have elections in Kenya if the bogus results announced by IEBC are left to stand; I fully realize those who cooked the numbers and their beneficiaries couldn't care less but the rest of the country does and that's what matters. No; it's because the compromised characters at IEBC fooled everyone and cleverly hid their scheme to the point even yours truly who had credible information that they were compromised had a change of heart and gave them a benefit of doubt, when he should not have. I can also tell you when this is all said and done, people are going to jail for flagrant electoral misconduct in violation of the law. I have already addressed this question elsewhere and said the evidence of rigging to be filed is so overwhelming, there can only be one verdict and unanimously so. We are prepared to accept that verdict. No because I have faith and confidence in all of the Justices in the court that they will do the right thing and that's rule or make a decision based on facts and evidence provided consistent with the law and I also know they know what's at stake in this case to allow themselves to be corrupted by anyone, let alone money I blogged one of the Jubilee advisers was loudly proclaiming at a watering hole they are prepared to spend to buying judges. Our judiciary is past that and I doubt they'll prove me wrong. You have every right to believe whatever you do or wish and even bury your head deep in the sand and refuse to see or hear any truth pertaining to the massive rigging that occurred at Bomas and elsewhere beginning March 4, 2013, the rest of us are patiently waiting for the legal process underway to conclude and let the truth be known to all beyond those who already know. You remind me something I told a colleague as we were watching Isaac Hassan give one of his press briefings; I said what Hassan was saying was almost word by word what Kivuitu was saying even as the rigging was taking place right behind his behind. He would later claim he didn't have a clue what was going on much as I am sure Hassan will make the same claim. Laughable but this time there will be consequences for those who have abdicated in their responsibilities and actively become the conduits of illegalities and criminality at IEBC. |
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. We shouted thief! Everybody shrugged and laughed --Gosh! don't they have a sense of humour, them ODMers!
