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Post by b6k on Mar 30, 2013 19:36:22 GMT 3
Jakaswanga, now that's what I call realpolitik. Don't expect your hommies to accept you as a prophet though. More likely than not you will be run out of town, next time you venture into Nyalgunga ;D
I am still surprised Uhuru actually pulled it off. A few months ago those prayer rallies looked as ridiculous as anything I have ever seen. However we have since seen an election victory at the heels of a crumbling of the ICC cases that brought about those ridiculous prayer rallies in the first place.
Like you, I will stay very much in the opposition, however glad I may be that he has sent into oblivion the most duplicitous politician in KE who successfully managed to cover himself in the garb of democracy, good governance, yadda yadda yadda.
Now that the mysterious one is defeated, the great work commences to bring down muthamaki. As always, start with the weak link  True, true. Jakaswanga has rendered himself urbanite ... and he might have to disguise his address and identity now. You said " A few months ago those prayer rallies looked as ridiculous as anything I have ever seen. ...." Reminds me when the Terminator ran for the Governor of California. It was difficult to watch his debates .... I would share the embarrassment. Then toward the election someone started to emerge ... the rest is history! I think Uhuru will be an easy one to dress down. I think he's got some surprises waiting for him because he goes dishing out promises he won't be allowed to keep. But his biggest challenge will of course be that ICC. He must think about that Skype idea that Raila gave him, and how he would contain the political pot if he actually had to be "too tied" somewhere in the Netherlands for even a couple of weeks. I can imagine calls for impeachment would be heard, and even the numbers that Jubilee has could be at risk of shuffling. The ball returns to the Hague court. , the ICC will be the least of his worries. I think his most pressing problems will be local in nature....but, as Nereah says & Omwenga professes, I may be wrong as usual ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 30, 2013 19:54:09 GMT 3
Yes, he has pulled the thunder out of the air. But I cannot hide the fact that as I watched the speech, it is William Ruto I was thinking of. Trying to see the situation from his lens. I mean Ruto must already be scheming how to 'inherit' some of the now orphaned voters of Luoland, for his own eventual run later. If all he was doing was enjoying Raila's discomfort and humiliation, then he is a boy who has not been told the secret of combat. All warriors die some time. Always honour a falling one. You too will fall. That is combat, and life. Indeed that was less a concession speech than a show of defiance. It doesn't look like Agwambo is going into retirement soon. As for Ruto, he finds himself in a very unique position. He was Uhuru's shield in the elections but also remains his Achilles heel. As I don't have any powers of prophecy, I can only wait to see how this relationship plays out to its logical conclusion.... Yes B6k , Raila halfheartedly "concedes" and in the same line does not agree with the court rulings that confirms our prediction .This man has never accepted any election results he has ever lost from 1992,1997,2007 and 2013 that is in history . If Agwambo refuses to go into political retirement then power be to UhuRuto take this to the bank they will be more united and this will propel them to win the elections in 2017 . Kenyan politics is in a mess because of Railapolitcs . Politics of use and misuse , Politics of division and abuse. Kenyans in 2002 had decided to do away with tribal politics and backstabbing politics only for Raila in his first month in the NARC governments to overturn the gains . Just as he did to Wamalwa, Orengo and Moi he was the first to turn against his party and Presidential leader Kibaki and made it hard for Kibaki to Govern Kenya , he then made Kenya do a 360 degree turn on the gains against tribalism by coming up with Tribal kingpins from the different regions and tribes in Kenya to try and win the 2007 elections -Funnily enough it Railapolitics which has failed him this time around and if he refuses to retire Railapolitics will continue to feature and he will continue to be a sore loser. Unfortunately the person who bears the blunt of Railapolitics is the common mwanachi - so sad . Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections .If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebelion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . |
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Post by mank on Mar 30, 2013 21:21:08 GMT 3
True, true. Jakaswanga has rendered himself urbanite ... and he might have to disguise his address and identity now. You said " A few months ago those prayer rallies looked as ridiculous as anything I have ever seen. ...." Reminds me when the Terminator ran for the Governor of California. It was difficult to watch his debates .... I would share the embarrassment. Then toward the election someone started to emerge ... the rest is history! I think Uhuru will be an easy one to dress down. I think he's got some surprises waiting for him because he goes dishing out promises he won't be allowed to keep. But his biggest challenge will of course be that ICC. He must think about that Skype idea that Raila gave him, and how he would contain the political pot if he actually had to be "too tied" somewhere in the Netherlands for even a couple of weeks. I can imagine calls for impeachment would be heard, and even the numbers that Jubilee has could be at risk of shuffling. The ball returns to the Hague court.
Mank, the ICC will be the least of his worries. I think his most pressing problems will be local in nature....but, as Nereah says & Omwenga professes, I may be wrong as usual ;D ;D ;D ;D, I am curious about that. Are you suggesting that domestic issues are uniquely an issue to him, as opposed to what they have been for others before him? My view is that without the ICC issue, domestic challenges are just the usual. I think it will be very tricky juggling the ICC potato and the presidency .... he really might have to ring Raila up and ask what the latter knows about the skype idea that was floated, albeit teasingly, at the debates. ;D ;D |
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Post by b6k on Mar 30, 2013 22:31:44 GMT 3
Indeed that was less a concession speech than a show of defiance. It doesn't look like Agwambo is going into retirement soon. As for Ruto, he finds himself in a very unique position. He was Uhuru's shield in the elections but also remains his Achilles heel. As I don't have any powers of prophecy, I can only wait to see how this relationship plays out to its logical conclusion.... Yes B6k , Raila halfheartedly "concedes" and in the same line does not agree with the court rulings that confirms our prediction .This man has never accepted any election results he has ever lost from 1992,1997,2007 and 2013 that is in history . If Agwambo refuses to go into political retirement then power be to UhuRuto take this to the bank they will be more united and this will propel them to win the elections in 2017 . Kenyan politics is in a mess because of Railapolitcs . Politics of use and misuse , Politics of division and abuse. Kenyans in 2002 had decided to do away with tribal politics and backstabbing politics only for Raila in his first month in the NARC governments to overturn the gains . Just as he did to Wamalwa, Orengo and Moi he was the first to turn against his party and Presidential leader Kibaki and made it hard for Kibaki to Govern Kenya , he then made Kenya do a 360 degree turn on the gains against tribalism by coming up with Tribal kingpins from the different regions and tribes in Kenya to try and win the 2007 elections -Funnily enough it Railapolitics which has failed him this time around and if he refuses to retire Railapolitics will continue to feature and he will continue to be a sore loser. Unfortunately the person who bears the blunt of Railapolitics is the common mwanachi - so sad . Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections .If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebelion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . Nowayhaha, first of all Raila didn't contest the presidency in 1992. His late father Jaramogi did. So although he was an interested party, there was no way he could concede in a fight in which he had no direct stake ;D That "Railapolitics" has been the bane of KE politics is not in doubt except to those who believe romantic notions of politics. Without Raila's attempted coup in 1982, Moi would NOT have evolved into the dictator he became. The man had been busy dishing out milk to school kids & building roads & bridges to have been overly concerned with retaining crude power. He also had a very credible attempt at having the "face of KE" reflected in his government & para-statal appointments (a virtue that is often overlooked). It was by virtue of the '82 coup that Moi consolidated his powers in a bid for self preservation. Once bitten, twice shy. It is therefore ironic that, following the law of unintended consequences, Raila eventually found himself fighting a paranoid & despotic Moi whom he helped create (ironically this also led to the rise of many in our reform/human rights crew, which includes our very own admin (& our CJ Mutunga)....orphans of the coup....by accidentally being at the wrong place at the right time). Note to admin: this is not downplaying any of the injustices y'all experienced at the time which were very real but purely putting it in its historic perspective....Personally I believe Raila is toast. He was already extremely lethargic during this election cycle when compared to his energy in 2007. The man recently had brain surgery of some sort which he referred to as "brainwashing". I do not think we will see him in the next election cycle..... |
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Post by podp on Mar 30, 2013 22:33:19 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Mar 30, 2013 22:49:32 GMT 3
Mank, the ICC will be the least of his worries. I think his most pressing problems will be local in nature....but, as Nereah says & Omwenga professes, I may be wrong as usual ;D ;D ;D ;D, I am curious about that. Are you suggesting that domestic issues are uniquely an issue to him, as opposed to what they have been for others before him? My view is that without the ICC issue, domestic challenges are just the usual. I think it will be very tricky juggling the ICC potato and the presidency .... he really might have to ring Raila up and ask what the latter knows about the skype idea that was floated, albeit teasingly, at the debates. ;D ;D , as we have already seen with the ICC, its cases are built on sand. If I were a lawyer looking for precedents, I would compare it with Raila's election petition ;D. Naturally I jest as precedent cases must be similar in nature, but I believe you catch my drift. Back to your question, under the new dispensation, not only do we have a weakened executive but we have numerous constitutional checks & balances against the few powers that he does wield. With the additional spanner in the works of KE being made a more litigious society a la the US mold (only lawyers & judges who are just senior lawyers will be happy with this), I see nothing but grief for the Uhuru administration in the days ahead. NB: The weak link I was referring to was his deputy president who actually does have a pending land case (& potentially other issues) in KE courts. The CORD crew, & indeed, any Kenyan with a score to settle can & will take them to court..... |
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Post by mank on Mar 30, 2013 23:08:04 GMT 3
B6K, I am curious about that. Are you suggesting that domestic issues are uniquely an issue to him, as opposed to what they have been for others before him? My view is that without the ICC issue, domestic challenges are just the usual. I think it will be very tricky juggling the ICC potato and the presidency .... he really might have to ring Raila up and ask what the latter knows about the skype idea that was floated, albeit teasingly, at the debates. ;D ;D
Mank, as we have already seen with the ICC, its cases are built on sand. If I were a lawyer looking for precedents, I would compare it with Raila's election petition ;D. Naturally I jest as precedent cases must be similar in nature, but I believe you catch my drift.
Back to your question, under the new dispensation, not only do we have a weakened executive but we have numerous constitutional checks & balances against the few powers that he does wield. With the additional spanner in the works of KE being made a more litigious society a la the US mold (only lawyers & judges who are just senior lawyers will be happy with this), I see nothing but grief for the Uhuru administration in the days ahead.
NB: The weak link I was referring to was his deputy president who actually does have a pending land case (& potentially other issues) in KE courts. The CORD crew, & indeed, any Kenyan with a score to settle can & will take them to court.....Oh, about those cases being built on sand, there is no disagreement from me. However there is some distinction I want to make, and that is between the foundation of a case, and the power wielded by the institution to which an indicted person must answer. Given what I have gathered since the preliminary hearings, ICC fails the minimum test of any serious court. To me it is a disgrace! But that is only my opinion. It still has lots of power, mandated to it by a plethora of nations, of which Kenya is one. What that means, whether a case is based on sand or solid ground, still an indicted person is at the mercy of the procedures and schedules of the shamus institution. So it matters less that the case may not be sound, and more that the ICC determines the speed and schedule upon which the soundness of that foundation will be put to test and ruled upon. So as we wait for July, Uhuru does not know on what ticket he may be going to the Hague, 2 day return ticket, 5, 7 30 or how many ... he has no clue. Bensouda may know for sure that she's going nowhere with his case, but she can dilly-dally with the scheduling of the case just to maintain her office's relevance. And that's why I really wish Muthaura would sue the court ... assuming there is a right under the Rome statute to do so. A case by someone who has been indicted on the same case can bring out information quickly at a pace more favorable to the indicted, but more than that, it can warn the prosecutor that if she knows that she has no case then it is dangerous to play politics and prolong the time to justice for the indicted. |
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Post by gemagema on Mar 30, 2013 23:44:10 GMT 3
Indeed that was less a concession speech than a show of defiance. It doesn't look like Agwambo is going into retirement soon. As for Ruto, he finds himself in a very unique position. He was Uhuru's shield in the elections but also remains his Achilles heel. As I don't have any powers of prophecy, I can only wait to see how this relationship plays out to its logical conclusion.... Yes B6k , Raila halfheartedly "concedes" and in the same line does not agree with the court rulings that confirms our prediction .This man has never accepted any election results he has ever lost from 1992,1997,2007 and 2013 that is in history . If Agwambo refuses to go into political retirement then power be to UhuRuto take this to the bank they will be more united and this will propel them to win the elections in 2017 . Kenyan politics is in a mess because of Railapolitcs . Politics of use and misuse , Politics of division and abuse. Kenyans in 2002 had decided to do away with tribal politics and backstabbing politics only for Raila in his first month in the NARC governments to overturn the gains . Just as he did to Wamalwa, Orengo and Moi he was the first to turn against his party and Presidential leader Kibaki and made it hard for Kibaki to Govern Kenya , he then made Kenya do a 360 degree turn on the gains against tribalism by coming up with Tribal kingpins from the different regions and tribes in Kenya to try and win the 2007 elections -Funnily enough it Railapolitics which has failed him this time around and if he refuses to retire Railapolitics will continue to feature and he will continue to be a sore loser. Unfortunately the person who bears the blunt of Railapolitics is the common mwanachi - so sad . Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections .If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebelion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . You write that ..." If Agwambo refuses to go into political retirement then power be to UhuRuto take this to the bank they will be more united and this will propel them to win the elections in 2017" It is unfortunate, that even after your president Uhuru now officially becomes the 4th President of Kenya, you still continue to play your naive and biased political punditry on the ad hominem of Raila Amollo Odinga. As you jubilate..try to be objective too Now, if i may float you an idea to take to the bank, it is that...William Samoei Ruto will not be Uhuru Kenyatta's running mate in 2017 again. Ruto wants to be president...and he knows the power he has, that is based on his own stronghold (RV). Secondly, he knows too well, (and like Kenyans have demonstarted once more in the elections) that most Kenyans aren't enthusiastic about a Kikuyu Presidency. What am I saying? Foremost, Raila in the opposition is very deadly...he deals fatal blows! Just revisit your political history. Dont be cheated that Raila will be retiring...he is so much of an enigma to move to Bondo now! He knows his worth, and he is ready to try or better said push this UhuRuto government to its knees. Raila will be keen on wanting to continually remind Kenyans this..."isn't this the presidency you chose?" Secondly, once Uhuru gets sweared in, the Kiambu Mafia will move in immediately and surround him, which means that Ruto starts getting jittery. I tell you, this political marriage, even though was made up of willing partners, will be more tumultuousness than thhe forced marriage between Kibaki and Raila. Mark you, Raila and Kibaki were statesmen, but Uhuru and Ruto are young blood...Uhuru with his temper and his external stimulations, and Ruto with his Power hunger and mobilisation skills (Never mind that he took good lessons from Raila). And if 2007 PEV is anything to use as evidence, then Uhuru and Ruto must be feared. Something else...land issues in RV havent disappeared BTW, did u see how the political positions have been shared between URP and TNA....jijazie! Oops! Just got some visitors...to be continued... |
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Post by jakaswanga on Mar 31, 2013 1:05:15 GMT 3
[ Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections . If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebel ion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . No Way, I know you were not born then, so I excuse your moronism. Look, there had been an MOU. Kibaki, or his court, under the command of young Turks Kiraitu and Murungaru, trashed it, alienated Raila and humiliated him. Reduced to a figure head, a puppet. And a man must have his pride, named Raila or not. [DO NOT GO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE WITH RUTO AFTER THE SWEARING IN, OR HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF] It would take the wisdom of Njenga Karume ---who also had been edged out by that infamous duo-- to re-bring sanity and make Kibaki and Raila develop a working relationship for the country. You can propagandise and twist the facts, it is allowed. But do not go over into outright lies and stupidity. Not here on Jukwaa. ---Even Pyongyang has its pride on factology! and limits to stretch! |
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Post by omundu on Mar 31, 2013 2:43:50 GMT 3
[ Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections . If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebel ion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . No Way, I know you were not born then, so I excuse your moronism. Look, there had been an MOU. Kibaki, or his court, under the command of young Turks Kiraitu and Murungaru, trashed it, alienated Raila and humiliated him. Reduced to a figure head, a puppet. And a man must have his pride, named Raila or not. [DO NOT GO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE WITH RUTO AFTER THE SWEARING IN, OR HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF] It would take the wisdom of Njenga Karume ---who also had been edged out by that infamous duo-- to re-bring sanity and make Kibaki and Raila develop a working relationship for the country. You can propagandise and twist the facts, it is allowed. But do not go over into outright lies and stupidity. Not here on Jukwaa. ---Even Pyongyang has its pride on factology! and limits to stretch! Hehhehe. Jakaswanga. Spare him please. Even PYONGYANG sometimes has to grope in the dark searching for percieved enemies way after the korean war, to threaten with nuclear annihilation in order to stay relevant to the masses and the world. Our fella here may just just be sitting alone, whiskey bottle in hand, bemoaning the loss of future monthly paychecks now that the paymasters think his work is done. |
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Post by ebarasi on Mar 31, 2013 4:19:31 GMT 3
[ Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections . If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebel ion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . No Way, I know you were not born then, so I excuse your moronism. Look, there had been an MOU. Kibaki, or his court, under the command of young Turks Kiraitu and Murungaru, trashed it, alienated Raila and humiliated him. Reduced to a figure head, a puppet. And a man must have his pride, named Raila or not. [DO NOT GO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE WITH RUTO AFTER THE SWEARING IN, OR HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF] It would take the wisdom of Njenga Karume ---who also had been edged out by that infamous duo-- to re-bring sanity and make Kibaki and Raila develop a working relationship for the country. You can propagandise and twist the facts, it is allowed. But do not go over into outright lies and stupidity. Not here on Jukwaa. ---Even Pyongyang has its pride on factology! and limits to stretch! Jakaswanga, Let the sleeping dogs lie. By using lies some people buy time but there always comes a time when these people have to either identify and exorcise the ghosts haunting them or go completely insane. |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 31, 2013 13:48:15 GMT 3
Yes B6k , Raila halfheartedly "concedes" and in the same line does not agree with the court rulings that confirms our prediction .This man has never accepted any election results he has ever lost from 1992,1997,2007 and 2013 that is in history . If Agwambo refuses to go into political retirement then power be to UhuRuto take this to the bank they will be more united and this will propel them to win the elections in 2017 . Kenyan politics is in a mess because of Railapolitcs . Politics of use and misuse , Politics of division and abuse. Kenyans in 2002 had decided to do away with tribal politics and backstabbing politics only for Raila in his first month in the NARC governments to overturn the gains . Just as he did to Wamalwa, Orengo and Moi he was the first to turn against his party and Presidential leader Kibaki and made it hard for Kibaki to Govern Kenya , he then made Kenya do a 360 degree turn on the gains against tribalism by coming up with Tribal kingpins from the different regions and tribes in Kenya to try and win the 2007 elections -Funnily enough it Railapolitics which has failed him this time around and if he refuses to retire Railapolitics will continue to feature and he will continue to be a sore loser. Unfortunately the person who bears the blunt of Railapolitics is the common mwanachi - so sad . Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections .If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebelion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . Nowayhaha, first of all Raila didn't contest the presidency in 1992. His late father Jaramogi did. So although he was an interested party, there was no way he could concede in a fight in which he had no direct stake ;D B6k, If you didnt know , Raila was the deputy director of elections for Ford-K and Orengo was his boss then. Where as Orengo was for the opinion for Ford-K to play its role as a strong opposition against KANU Raila as the combative was pushing for the idea to unite with Matiba and do a million man march to state house . That "Railapolitics" has been the bane of KE politics is not in doubt except to those who believe romantic notions of politics. Without Raila's attempted coup in 1982, Moi would NOT have evolved into the dictator he became. The man had been busy dishing out milk to school kids & building roads & bridges to have been overly concerned with retaining crude power. He also had a very credible attempt at having the "face of KE" reflected in his government & para-statal appointments (a virtue that is often overlooked). It was by virtue of the '82 coup that Moi consolidated his powers in a bid for self preservation. Once bitten, twice shy. It is therefore ironic that, following the law of unintended consequences, Raila eventually found himself fighting a paranoid & despotic Moi whom he helped create (ironically this also led to the rise of many in our reform/human rights crew, which includes our very own admin (& our CJ Mutunga)....orphans of the coup....by accidentally being at the wrong place at the right time). Note to admin: this is not downplaying any of the injustices y'all experienced at the time which were very real but purely putting it in its historic perspective....Personally I believe Raila is toast. He was already extremely lethargic during this election cycle when compared to his energy in 2007. The man recently had brain surgery of some sort which he referred to as "brainwashing". I do not think we will see him in the next election cycle..... As you point out its due to Railapoitics we are where are ,first it was Moi and there after Kibaki if he decides to play Railapolitcs against Uhuru be rest assured UhuRuto will govern this country for 20 years but if he decides to hang his boots and pass the baton to a younger energetic youth then UhuRuto will have problems getting elected come 2017. |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 31, 2013 14:18:15 GMT 3
Yes B6k , Raila halfheartedly "concedes" and in the same line does not agree with the court rulings that confirms our prediction .This man has never accepted any election results he has ever lost from 1992,1997,2007 and 2013 that is in history . If Agwambo refuses to go into political retirement then power be to UhuRuto take this to the bank they will be more united and this will propel them to win the elections in 2017 . Kenyan politics is in a mess because of Railapolitcs . Politics of use and misuse , Politics of division and abuse. Kenyans in 2002 had decided to do away with tribal politics and backstabbing politics only for Raila in his first month in the NARC governments to overturn the gains . Just as he did to Wamalwa, Orengo and Moi he was the first to turn against his party and Presidential leader Kibaki and made it hard for Kibaki to Govern Kenya , he then made Kenya do a 360 degree turn on the gains against tribalism by coming up with Tribal kingpins from the different regions and tribes in Kenya to try and win the 2007 elections -Funnily enough it Railapolitics which has failed him this time around and if he refuses to retire Railapolitics will continue to feature and he will continue to be a sore loser. Unfortunately the person who bears the blunt of Railapolitics is the common mwanachi - so sad . Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections .If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebelion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . You write that ..." If Agwambo refuses to go into political retirement then power be to UhuRuto take this to the bank they will be more united and this will propel them to win the elections in 2017" It is unfortunate, that even after your president Uhuru now officially becomes the 4th President of Kenya, you still continue to play your naive and biased political punditry on the ad hominem of Raila Amollo Odinga. As you jubilate..try to be objective too Now, if i may float you an idea to take to the bank, it is that...William Samoei Ruto will not be Uhuru Kenyatta's running mate in 2017 again. Ruto wants to be president...and he knows the power he has, that is based on his own stronghold (RV). Secondly, he knows too well, (and like Kenyans have demonstarted once more in the elections) that most Kenyans aren't enthusiastic about a Kikuyu Presidency. What am I saying? Foremost, Raila in the opposition is very deadly...he deals fatal blows! Just revisit your political history. Dont be cheated that Raila will be retiring...he is so much of an enigma to move to Bondo now! He knows his worth, and he is ready to try or better said push this UhuRuto government to its knees. Raila will be keen on wanting to continually remind Kenyans this..."isn't this the presidency you chose?" Secondly, once Uhuru gets sweared in, the Kiambu Mafia will move in immediately and surround him, which means that Ruto starts getting jittery. I tell you, this political marriage, even though was made up of willing partners, will be more tumultuousness than thhe forced marriage between Kibaki and Raila. Mark you, Raila and Kibaki were statesmen, but Uhuru and Ruto are young blood...Uhuru with his temper and his external stimulations, and Ruto with his Power hunger and mobilisation skills (Never mind that he took good lessons from Raila). And if 2007 PEV is anything to use as evidence, then Uhuru and Ruto must be feared. Something else...land issues in RV havent disappeared BTW, did u see how the political positions have been shared between URP and TNA....jijazie! Oops! Just got some visitors...to be continued... Gemagema, First Im not jubilating or celebrating that we did in Mar 09 when UhuRuto were declared president and deputy president elect. Furthermore we were not happy that UhuRuto won , NO majority of the people who voted for UhuRuto did so to send Raila into retirement as well as his mode of politics . One of the major call in Jubilees campaign was that by voting for them it was also a vote for Railas retirement and so when we went to the ballots what was ringing in our minds repeatedly was Rutos campaign slogan --> wangapi wanataka yule jamaa wa vitendawili aende nyumbani ? If Raila does not heed to the decision of Kenyans to retire his mode of politics then we will be forced to repeat what we did in the just concluded elections defeat him in any endeavor he is involved in and if you do not know by now Raila wont be eligible to run as a presidential candidate in the next elections. Of Ruto not being Uhurus running mate in 2017 , I will pinpoint the following first its early to make such a conclusion and secondly one of the reason why CORD/ODM and Raila lost the election was because of a miscalculation that Ruto would not have agreed to step down for Uhuru and if he did Rift valley would not have voted for Uhuru. In addition the constitution as the way it is gives an advantage to UhuRuto (remember from Miguna , Job and Adongo ) its UhuRuto who changed the constitution in Naivasha to have a President and a deputy President and they did it for a reason to win the elections . A deputy president is just as powerful as the president and indeed is elected as the president and it for this reason he is also in the ballot paper . When Rift valley went to vote they were voting for Ruto and the same can be said for Kalonzo supporters . Unlike Raila who once he became a minister began fighting his President and his party Ruto is different as can be attested in the last five years , once he became the agriculture minister he was faithful to Kibaki and was one of the most productive minister and in terms of team work he ranks amongst the tops with the late Orwa Ojode and Hellen Simbili . Dependent on how the duo fulfill their promises then we will be able to gauge the moods of Kenyans and from there we will be able Kujijazia else we will be judged as being on the wrong side of history . |
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Post by nowayhaha on Mar 31, 2013 14:42:19 GMT 3
[ Sometimes how I wish we could rewind the clock back to 2003 when NARC had won the elections . If only Raila would not have lead an internal rebel ion against Kibaki and his party and worked as a team to deliver their promises , we would be miles ahead interms of development and fighting poverty . But as the saying goes if Wishes were horses..........Raila would be the president-elect as we speak now . No Way, I know you were not born then, so I excuse your moronism. Look, there had been an MOU. Kibaki, or his court, under the command of young Turks Kiraitu and Murungaru, trashed it, alienated Raila and humiliated him. Reduced to a figure head, a puppet. And a man must have his pride, named Raila or not. [DO NOT GO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE WITH RUTO AFTER THE SWEARING IN, OR HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF] It would take the wisdom of Njenga Karume ---who also had been edged out by that infamous duo-- to re-bring sanity and make Kibaki and Raila develop a working relationship for the country. You can propagandise and twist the facts, it is allowed. But do not go over into outright lies and stupidity. Not here on Jukwaa. ---Even Pyongyang has its pride on factology! and limits to stretch! Jakaswanga, Well at least you got the gist of my message . Railapolitcs brought into Kenyan politics MOU man to man agreement on sharing power remember he had moments earlier trashed an MOU with Nyachae .When the memorandum was not fulfilled in the manner he wanted he took a wrong approach and decided to settle scores politically where apart from postponing enactment of the constitution he once again failed . If he was a convincing and a skilled negotiator the MOU would have been fulfilled according to his wishes but not only did he lack negotiation skills but also teamwork skills ,cant fault him maybe it was the stint at Nyayo house and different jails that took toll of him or rather the activism and opposition experience in him. Uhuru and Ruto are made from a different cloth altogether and have learnt from Kibaki vs Raila antics and good learners they are as you saw the pulled a Raila on Raila himself and for that they are President and Deputy president elect so it is highly unlikely they will make the same mistake. Matter of fact Raila is most likely to make the same mistake "twice" with Kalonzo watch this space. |
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Post by Horth on Mar 31, 2013 15:10:48 GMT 3
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veri
Junior Member
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Post by veri on Mar 31, 2013 17:06:37 GMT 3
Uhuruto are going to the Hague and they'll be served with real justice. The Kenyan systems can not cater for democracy or evidence. Once the pair are locked up Kenya can proceed with snap elections. May take a couple more years but by then Kenya will be in such a desperate situation economically, insecurity, poverty etc. the vigilante groups loyal to Uhuru won't have the safety networks to butcher people. By then that idiot David Cameron will be booted off so he can't defend those land grabbing colonialists.
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veri
Junior Member
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Post by veri on Mar 31, 2013 17:12:04 GMT 3
It was stolen two-fold. Observe the evidence. Uhuru lost dismally in 2002 because he was an extension of Moi aka protecting the rich. Kibaki was just a mistake but Uhuru is still an extension of everything Kenya voted off in 2002. |
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Post by b6k on Mar 31, 2013 20:12:05 GMT 3
B6k, If you didnt know , Raila was the deputy director of elections for Ford-K and Orengo was his boss then. Where as Orengo was for the opinion for Ford-K to play its role as a strong opposition against KANU Raila as the combative was pushing for the idea to unite with Matiba and do a million man march to state house . Then you ought to have worded that differently. Showing the 4 years in sequence like that implies a similar post was sought by Tinga. Clearly he had a history before 1997 but that was his first attempt at taking a bite at the cherry.... I will be very surprised if Uhuruto can stay united in a years time....& I do mean April 1, 2014 ;D |
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Post by b6k on Mar 31, 2013 20:17:24 GMT 3
Uhuruto are going to the Hague and they'll be served with real justice. The Kenyan systems can not cater for democracy or evidence. Once the pair are locked up Kenya can proceed with snap elections. May take a couple more years but by then Kenya will be in such a desperate situation economically, insecurity, poverty etc. the vigilante groups loyal to Uhuru won't have the safety networks to butcher people. By then that idiot David Cameron will be booted off so he can't defend those land grabbing colonialists. It seems in your dictionary "justice" means conviction. You must've missed SC Justice Wanjalla admonishing that pesky Nazlin Omar & advising her that "justice cuts both ways". I verily say unto thee, prepare yourself for major disappointment.... |
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Post by b6k on Mar 31, 2013 20:25:30 GMT 3
So the politics of victimhood continues. The poor mzee sounds like a broken reCORD..... |
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Post by b6k on Mar 31, 2013 20:29:48 GMT 3
It was stolen two-fold. Observe the evidence. Uhuru lost dismally in 2002 because he was an extension of Moi aka protecting the rich. Kibaki was just a mistake but Uhuru is still an extension of everything Kenya voted off in 2002. Kindly share the evidence you may have because from what I saw the Supreme Court threw out all the overwhelming evidence unanimously. I do agree with you that Uhuru who was soundly defeated as a Moi in 2002 has been elected in 2013. However that may have to do more with a rejection of Odingaism than an acceptance of Uhuruto as Nowayhaha posits above. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Mar 31, 2013 22:44:09 GMT 3
Kindly share the evidence you may have because from what I saw the Supreme Court threw out all the overwhelming evidence unanimously. I do agree with you that Uhuru who was soundly defeated as a Moi in 2002 has been elected in 2013. However that may have to do more with a rejection of Odingaism than an acceptance of Uhuruto as Nowayhaha posits above. " Hmm. I see.", said the blind man. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Apr 1, 2013 14:24:18 GMT 3
No Way, I know you were not born then, so I excuse your moronism. Look, there had been an MOU. Kibaki, or his court, under the command of young Turks Kiraitu and Murungaru, trashed it, alienated Raila and humiliated him. Reduced to a figure head, a puppet. And a man must have his pride, named Raila or not. [DO NOT GO MAKE THE SAME MISTAKE WITH RUTO AFTER THE SWEARING IN, OR HISTORY WILL REPEAT ITSELF] It would take the wisdom of Njenga Karume ---who also had been edged out by that infamous duo-- to re-bring sanity and make Kibaki and Raila develop a working relationship for the country. You can propagandise and twist the facts, it is allowed. But do not go over into outright lies and stupidity. Not here on Jukwaa. ---Even Pyongyang has its pride on factology! and limits to stretch! Jakaswanga, Well at least you got the gist of my message . Railapolitcs brought into Kenyan politics MOU man to man agreement on sharing power remember he had moments earlier trashed an MOU with Nyachae . If you are minded to give a balanced critical appreciation, then you wont mind stating, on the other sheet, that Raila has been a cannon in the fight for democratic space in Kenya. Anybody who takes this away from Raila, is not serious in mind. Thereafter, the degenerative phase of kaparesen that became co-option.Not fulfilled in the manner he wanted? or not fulfilled according to the specified and agreed memos? With both gentlemen, like mafia dons, still sealing their tongues in an omerta-like conspiracy, I urge restraint on equivocacy. See my comment above. And remember power arrangements are unstable not due to the character of the signatories, but the material conditions that dictate the power struggle in that country. so in the power arrangement between Congress and the POTUS for instance, POTUS has evolved to usurp all foreign policy, and conducts war in far lands with or without congress's clearance. And it has become a political dictum: at war, however illegal, congress stands behind the President. See my comment above on the nature of the dynamic of power arrangements. Alas, Nowayhaha, if only new generations had a greater propensity to learn from the past than earlier generations, bloody wars would be a thing of the past in human history. Uhuru and Ruto need to immediately carry out a comprehensive land reform, which was the foundation of the expulsion of Kikuyu's from the Rift in 2008. No amount of personal chemistry can subsume the politics of land. Even brothers will kill themselves over land. So the relationship is not in their heads to maintain, it is in the real politics of Kenya, that it is inherently unstable. They can get married they want, but out there in the country, there is a bomb to be diffused. meanwhile they are wasting time battling civil society, trying to shut up and down, some of the most brilliant minds of Kenya. What have they learnt then? Students of Moi ;D and Raila! ;D |
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Post by b6k on Apr 2, 2013 20:46:45 GMT 3
Kindly share the evidence you may have because from what I saw the Supreme Court threw out all the overwhelming evidence unanimously. I do agree with you that Uhuru who was soundly defeated as a Moi in 2002 has been elected in 2013. However that may have to do more with a rejection of Odingaism than an acceptance of Uhuruto as Nowayhaha posits above. " Hmm. I see.", said the blind man.  Otishotish, actually the one who is blind is justice. You may have your preference, I may have mine as to the outcome of a case. But you should note that "lady justice" is blindfolded because she should be totally impartial as she is blindfolded & should not be able to see which side she favours & only decide upon cases based purely on the strength of the evidence brought before her. She impartially listens to evidence, weighs it upon her scales & then cuts down the side that has not done enough to prove its case. The sword can go either way. I believe that's how any credible court operates. That's how Mutunga's court decided Raila's shoddy petition, & very soon, you will see the same on at least one of two of the ICC cases. I rest my case ;D ;D ;D ;D |
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