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Post by kamalet on Jul 21, 2013 10:45:12 GMT 3
It would appear that the ODM/CORD propaganda machine is finally losing steam as progressively all its utterances and claims are proving to be lies!
It started with the one million voters more in the presidential election than the parliamentary and when the number was finally reduced to a measely 86,000 votes the only straw that these guys would hang on to was the fact that Hassan would not take an oath before the parliamentary committee.
The came the Kethi saga where the poor girl was made to make strange exclamations in public about how they would prove her father's enemies wrong and that she was registered and her papers would be accepted, the IEBC tribunal and the High Court proved all these wrong. She was a damn liar who was handling stolen property!
Unfortunately these lies are not helping ODM and the more they cry wolf the more unbelievable they become. It is easy to accept that the alliance that includes ODM is running around like a headless chicken with the leadership a lot more worried with where the party leaders ass would be placed when he is at the airport! The alliance has been a shambles in parliament where it has been forced to eat humble pie again and again. One cannot even claim tyranny of numbers in the house if you consider that in the previous parliament of the so called grand coalition, the minor party PNU and its alliances with fewer numbers in the house managed to get its legislative agenda through with the ODM group and their numbers only having to rely on a partisan Speaker to win them anything in the house.
Perhaps someone needs to tell these people where their problem lies. So listen to me and shhhhhh.....it is right at the top!! Get rid of Raila who is now past his political sell by date, get younger players like Kidero and John Mbandi to take up the leadership and ODM will rise like the phoenix. Raila has bungled just too many times for anyone to actually trust his judgement...just how do you get caught with thousands of dollars in cash literally under a mattress? Why could he not keep the money in a bank account in a country with no forex controls? This guy has led with the claims of 1 million votes and still will not accept that his team is a bungling lot and the 800 page evidence is actually nothing that would have helped his cause! Perhaps he can organise a moot court and invite Judge Judy to preside over arguments on the 800 page and he will still find his team lied to him that they had something in there!
Which is why I wonder why they Cord alliance is so excited by the Makueni senatorial by election considering this Raila guy had promised us that the IEBC was irredeemable and any election run by them would be boycotted! So would an election that is won by Kilonzo Jnr a legitimate one that returns the credibility of the IEBC or would a possible loss at the polls point at how bad the IEBC is?
Stop these lies, get rid of Raila and you will notice the difference.....free advice from me!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 21, 2013 14:46:13 GMT 3
Perhaps someone needs to tell these people where their problem lies. So listen to me and shhhhhh.....it is right at the top!! Get rid of Raila who is now past his political sell by date, get younger players like Kidero and John Mbandi to take up the leadership and ODM will rise like the phoenix. Raila has bungled just too many times for anyone to actually trust his judgement... <><><> Stop these lies, get rid of Raila and you will notice the difference.....free advice from me! You should be happy to watch a public self-destruct! but you can convince me it is your love for your country which makes you want to see Raila go, because it will lead to a healthier more robust opposition, that can keep Uhuruto on their toes more relentlessly than dead-wood Raila could ever have! But if the alternative, that you are speaking with forked tongue, then this: --- utalala chini mwalimu akuchape! A jukwaa institute like you, Kamalet, must mind his reputation. So, indulge me. Stop spewing nonsense. Join Mutahi Ngunyi who, between the lines, has a more sane if morbid appreciation of Raila: Ngunyi thinks in trepidation: the man [Agwambo] remains the greatest danger to Uhuruto. He is cunning and politically gifted in mobilisation, and has time and again been proven to feel the public pulse. His fall-out with Kibaki after Moi's defeat, led to a national gridlock, which eventually precipitated a national catastrophe post 2007 elections. Massively derailing Kibaki's agenda.
Politically active, he remains dangerous and must not be allowed to re-group. Maliza yeye leo, usingoje kesho!So, Kamalet, it is precisely because of the formidable caliber of Raila Odinga as a politician, which you so fervently deny, that the two boys at Nyumba Kubwa find much torment in ther sleep, and in their wakeful hours, do slowly find their sanity eroding with seeping paranoia, leading to the pantomimes we see with Owallo. Uhuruto if not already, will soon start swallowing stronger doses of sleeping pills, and when they report to office, their mental states will even be more corrosive than the jaundice already visible in their eyes. That is,in my opinion, a greater danger to themselves and to the republic, than the incompetences of Raila Odinga as leader of the opposition. Kamalet: NB: do not let mwalimu Jakaswanga pinch your ears  again here. When it comes to costs of business, law and matters pertaining our foreign relations, Kamalet of Jukwaa is as hot as a thermonuclear power core. I demand no less of him when he comes to Raila vs Uhuruto! Talking about who or what to get rid of: the senate or the parliament? or the cabinet? |
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Post by kamalet on Jul 22, 2013 9:06:51 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
Perhaps I have interacted with politicians quite a bit that none of them actually impresses me. You meet a guy that is a sensible fellow in private sector, you engage in debates about the business environment and when the character joins politics, you simple cannot understand what happens to their brains. So I learnt to try and see through the politicians and you can tell those that genuinely see politics as an opportunity to provide leadership whilst others see it very differently that politics is all about them!
I am sure you always get surprised at my admiration of a politician such as the late John Michuki. I met Michuki the businessman and Michuki the politician and there was little that ever changed about him! It is a totally different experience when you talk of a politician such as Kiraitu Murungi or Evans Kidero. The latter is now so hung up on this governor Lordship that he now carries with 6 body guards and a 3 car motorcade! The company he keeps would make you a worried man. I am sure you recall Kiraitu the activist and the debacle that he was in government. I knew the man during our DP days so yes these guys are not what many people think they are. What is common with these guys is that they do actually have a following as they actually get elected!
So back to your liberation star Raila. I am not sure how much you know of the man apart from his media credentials on liberation, getting detained by Moi and the several failed attempts at being president of Kenya. You see I actually do not share the views of Mutahi that Raila is "cunning and politically gifted in mobilisation" for as you can see with Kiraitu and Kidero it is the ability to get the gullible to believe you that drives the man. Being politically cunning is perhaps what you should ascribe to Kibaki who in a lazy stupor managed to overwhelm this 'cunning liberation star' so many times that I lost count! The fact that from near incumbency going into the last election Raila still managed to lose the election tells you how poor his to not even notice that those around him were seriously failing him.
The Kethi debacle perhaps should tell you how bad the organisation in the coalition he leads is. But we should have been used the mediocrity of our politicians, and unfortunately this is where I place Raila when I talk about mediocrity. The man is 65 years, and it might take the ICC to stop the Uhuruto duo from still being in power in January 2023 and poor Raila will be 75 perhaps too old to be worth anything in leadership. Remember the man is not Mandela nor is his lifestyle that of Madiba, which means that at 75, quite a lot will have happened to his faculties!
So does Raila actually give the two boys a sleepless moment? Frankly I do not think so. If push came to shove, I think they would be decisive enough to bring Raila on his knees and some of the lessons were actually learnt from Kibaki. Raila will be allowed to make himself hoarse making noise about 800 pages of lost evidence and the IEBC being a useless entity, but I expect when he crosses the line, it matters little how many people wail about persecution.....
On your last question, I think we need to get rid of the senate as well as these county money holes!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 22, 2013 20:43:06 GMT 3
Jakaswanga Perhaps I have interacted with politicians quite a bit that none of them actually impresses me. You meet a guy that is a sensible fellow in private sector, you engage in debates about the business environment and when the character joins politics, you simple cannot understand what happens to their brains. So I learnt to try and see through the politicians and you can tell those that genuinely see politics as an opportunity to provide leadership whilst others see it very differently that politics is all about them! Kamalet, Perhaps it will surprise you, but yours is an attitude I can whole identify with, since it reflects my experience of many politicians, and, I must confess, not just within but outside Kenya too by our 'near' neighbours! What happens to their brains you ask!? I have Always let myself be rest assured, that it is the case of just a little power is enough to get some peoples head, and corrupt them absolutely!  So trying and seeing through politicians is a very healthy mentality I do not mind sharing! If you ask me, it is the politicians making a mess of the world, not Satan!  When it comes to John Michuki, I have a surprise for you too. --Watch out for my historical evaluation of the man through 'Nahashon Kinyua', in my unauthorised memoirs of Mwai Kibaki at the Nereah wa Amadi thread: Kibaki at 80. ---Is all well with the esteemed lady Nereah by the way? Long time no sharp quips and rejoinders from her to spice up Jukwaa! Michuki is a man of steadfast character. A forged man. This is a very high caliber quality in a man, foe or fiend, and a man without cobwebs in his mind will admit it. From a research on Argwings Kodhek, I came to understand Michuki had not Always been what we call a Gikuyu supremacist ---Argwings Kodhek was a Mau-Mau lawyer, and he had an amazing run-in with young John Michuki. Working through the issue as much as I could re-construct it from oral research ---[which I wouldn't dare present in an 'academic forum', since it would be inadmissible, dismissed as hearsay, conjecture, disjointed snippets and figments of gerontologic memories] my opinion is he was a classical bureaucrat, a man of law and order, regardless of the nature of the order. An exceptional mandarin who in the Qing Dynasty would have been at the peak of the 9-rank system! Disciplined ruthless workaholic, effective and straightforward. It will surprise you to know, that perhaps he lasted so long at the top because he was not a plotter. He did not give you a Sugar smile as he plotted to insert a dagger up your ribs. Loyal and reliable, like an old fashioned soldier of honour. Internally integrated enought to talk straight in politics. --eg-Uhuru is Muthamaki, the rest is bullsh!t. We must keep the PEV trials at home where we can control the process! You rattle a snake you get bitten! [By now Owallo would be hanging with his balls from the ceiling! by figure of speech then!  ] I regret he was on the wrong side of history! but no doubt a formidable operator! yeah, I can easily understand your admiration for the Michuki man.NB: It took quite some 'persuasion and evolution' to turn John Michuki, under Kenyatta, from a man loyal to the Kenyan state, to a man loyal to the Kenyan state under the precondition it remained within the house of Mumbi! NB 2: On Raila, I still think he is a mass mobiliser and and an effective campaigner when focused. Toe to toe on the campaign trail, he can lay this Jubilee government waste. When it comes to the details of running an office as I have said numerously before, or pursuing a concrete goal of policy which involves a lot of tedious bureaucratic manouevering, Agwambo falls flat. ---This is how he came to fail to reign in his chief of staff Karoli, greedy enough to sell poisonous maize to Kenyans, like those Bihar businessmen of India who have massacred 30 pupils! www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-23337445 Kibaki outsmarted Raila? the price was PEV! and 1/2M Gikuyus evicted from the Rift. That is a price too high in my opinion. The GCG of Miguna? There I admit Raila was rotten! that is why he had to rig the Nyanza primaries! NB: If the serious crimes unit is spending man-hours investigating Owallo while Omtata owns the March 4, then I am ready to repeat: Uhuruto is is only sleeping on heavey dosage pills! |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 25, 2013 22:06:01 GMT 3
Jakaswanga So does Raila actually give the two boys a sleepless moment? Frankly I do not think so. If push came to shove, I think they would be decisive enough to bring Raila on his knees and some of the lessons were actually learnt from Kibaki. Raila will be allowed to make himself hoarse making noise about 800 pages of lost evidence and the IEBC being a useless entity, but I expect when he crosses the line, it matters little how many people wail about persecution..... On your last question, I think we need to get rid of the senate as well as these county money holes! You insist the digital duo is not drugging themselves to sleep on account of Raila? Well, This otherwise small incident would suggest otherwise. Very tell-tale I would say. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000089185&story_title=raila-attacks-jubilee-as-uhuru-skips-funeral His Excellency called off the trip LAST MINUTE. You know what it means when a president calls off his trip last minute? ---More important business to attend! The last time Uhuru called off his trip last minute was last week, when Turkanas and their warring neighbours [Pokots ?]could not agree on the venue for the reconciliation ceremony. In other words, the presidents presence was only going to escalate the situation by appearing partisan. The handlers of the president, had miscalculated, in the sense of over-hyped, the 'authority of the office of PORK'. The price was a reality check and the prezzo had to eat humble pie, and scamper back, tail folded. The Kisii funeral. It would be great for the CORDED to say, that rumours of Raila would cough at him, persuaded H.E to be like a rat hearing a miaw, and thus to stay put, and hide in his hole in leafy Nairobi, aka Ikulu. --On the other side in social media, I have also seen fellas I assume to be Jubilee affiliated, run amok accusing Raila of hijacking the 'funeral' to engage in divisive politics, and refuse to move on from his 'defeat'. So once again it is what Raila says that holds the politics of the land to ransom? But I think the real reason the president balked is two fold. 1. Devoluton and 2. KNUT and teachers. DEVOLUTION. This is popular with wananchi, but there is a growing perception that Jubilee is stalling, and effectively pushing to reverse some 'gains', apart from using financial blackmail. The most articulate Governor on devolution, is the chairman of the caucus of governors, the Bomet governor Isaac Ruto.As of now, Isaac Ruto is being threatened with EXPULSION from URP and JUBILEE! And what is his crime again!? Calling a spade a spade. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000089225&story_title=Kenya-i-m-in-jubilee-to-stay-says-ruto[The adventures of this man are important in the light of the digital by our Onyango Oloo, who belled the cat, when he announced that, in his opinion, the internal contradiction within jubilee between the dedicated devolutionists on one hand, and the opportunistic, dishonest lipservicemen on the other, will escalate. The president would be running against the wind in this, in Kisii. 2. KNUT. This funeral was definitely a walimu and students stage event. But few men in Nairobi really are aware of how much root KNUT has, and the credibility of especially Mwalimu Wilson Sossion. But Uhuru Kenyatta had just had this Sossion fella thrown in jail, fined, and hounded like a common law criminal. [Just like Jubilee has conviced fellas the ICC is a colonial court of no credibility, so too have others conviced folks the local court was under orders to 'tame' KNUT, and the Judge was far from independent. It is called the rebound!] So the boss was going to have an appreciation of the resentment his withholding of walimu's salary has unleashed. And this is why he lost his nerve and absconded from his 'mourning duties'. Such duties as Machiavelli adviced 'populists' to mind. That it would be an oral popularity test with Raila in a free-choice audience, did not make nerves any steadier. But all is no los in Gussii. The council of elders has declared the 'heckling' of Jubilee nobles, an abomination in Gusii culture! Let us hope they mean it, and have not, as Otishotish would say, 'eaten something small' to say that! ---Then it is a 'fatwah'! --Uhuru's speech, regardless of the deliverer, is divine, and every Gussii must listen in awe, and believe it all in his heart! On getting rid of the senate: Personally it is the parliament I would rather extinguish. Because Mpigs and that body are a bigger drain on the treasury, and their workload can be eaily accommodated at the [47-seater] senate. |
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Post by kamalet on Jul 26, 2013 10:00:12 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
I do not know how much respect of the dead the Luo have as a community, but the reactions from even local and church leaders from Gusii land does show that the Kisii prefer to have sombre funerals as opposed to their neighbours who see political funerals as status symbols - i.e. the more senior politician appearing at a funeral the better!
Watching the news on Tuesday and noting that Uhuru had given the function a miss had me troubled. But having seen the jeering of leaders for their perceived support of Jubilee and the the political statements by Raila about the elections (is this man mad and stuck in the election rut?) I quickly understood why perhaps Uhuru missed the funeral to avoid any security issues of him having to sit through the jeering of Jubilee leaders as it would appear to have been done.
I am afraid that incident in Kisii was not a small matter, but it will also herald a couple of fights with Raila that will be bare knuckled.
You will recall my suggestion that the man must be trying to see how far he can go whilst still enjoying government largesse. I highly doubt that Mutua's successor did not have the authority to make the statements he made purely as a shot across the bow.
The next one was the US trip by CORD governors without our US embassy knowing about it.......
Raila seemed to survive his self destruct moments when he had some power, I think he is trying to bite more than he can chew!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 26, 2013 20:32:33 GMT 3
Jakaswanga I do not know how much respect of the dead the Luo have as a community, but the reactions from even local and church leaders from Gusii land does show that the Kisii prefer to have sombre funerals as opposed to their neighbours who see political funerals as status symbols - i.e. the more senior politician appearing at a funeral the better! Watching the news on Tuesday and noting that Uhuru had given the function a miss had me troubled. But having seen the jeering of leaders for their perceived support of Jubilee and the the political statements by Raila about the elections (is this man mad and stuck in the election rut?) I quickly understood why perhaps Uhuru missed the funeral to avoid any security issues of him having to sit through the jeering of Jubilee leaders as it would appear to have been done. Kamalet, Things are not Always what they look like --with these church and elders so-called. Let me give you an idea of how a former political operative like myself sizes up the situation. 1. Social differentiation. ---(a)from which 'socio-economic stationt' did the hecklers come from? [b.] From which socio-political interests do those condemning the act come from? To what extent can we talk of a 'unity of purpose' between the 1.a and 1.b, if we have concluded they come from different socio-political realities, even if mono-ethnic? If, in the course of our thinking, analysis, guesswork or whatever, we come to the plausible conclusion, that neither the clergy nor the elders who have been vocal, reflect the hearts of those who did the heckling, then we come to the national split in consciousness, or discordance between the supposedly led and the supposed leaders. If, however, we certify, that the Kisii elders are not the equivalent of the Luo elders who are a kind of a joke and official public fools in Luoland, then we have to go hard at work, to explain how Raila Odinga and his goons , as the Uhuru mouthpiece aka government speaker derogatorily calls the ex-PM's staff, could persuade such a horde of young men to heckle! ---Did he buy them, that is in a rent-a-crowd arrangement as Mobutu Sese Seko perfected in Zaïre? I have this feeling Raila did not rent them. I have this feeling, that the action of the hecklers was not politically manipulated, but reflected their own genuine concerns and passions. It was authentic protest. But not conforming to upperclass (rofl)table manners!And this is why the government is rattled, and the spokesmoron ---I am punning on Omwenga who characterises him moronic and idiotic in one!---- breathing fire and brimstone. They came face to face with an authentic savage resentment FROM an otherwise neutral area. Kisiis do not follow one herd or the other. They historically calculate their interests and spread their bets. So if the young of that area were, of own volition, hard as it may sound, rejecting Jubilee which is incumbent and owns the power of patronage, it must mean the revulsion is mighty deep, and genuine.So deep they would have humiliated the president thoroughly. So scared witless, his excellency stayed home, nursing a seething rage as Raila penned him Rais Bandia!This is the rage he transferred to his spokesman, who went live on the nation foaming in the mouth and going all petty. ---Raila has 'kidnapped state limousines, uses an illegal flash-light, and keeps right as if he is driving in France! In PR, when a spokesperson of a whole Rais starts to sound like that .... you know someone has lost his temper for real. [yes Kamalet you are right when you say he had highest clearance to shoot across Raila's bow!]But here is my concern: Raila is backing Ouru into a corner. Angry and feeling humiliated, the son of Jomo will do something stupid to counteract his shortfalls. This is added to the pressure of the ICC. Meanwhile, somebody else has to be running Kenya of course. Uhuru and Ruto have their agendas full with Raila sideshows. The whole two weeks now it has been headline news --Raila's sidekick Owallo, and now Raila's 'hired hecklers of Kisii'.it is the economy stupid! forget Raila. What a toy government! where is your kazi kwa vijana report? trust me if it was a sucess, or coming off the ground, those young men of Kisii would have heckled Raila instead! Damn! where is that Harvard Boy Rotich to introduce a bit of economic thinking into the politial game! Ach, Harvard, is that where the guys who were running Detroit came from? or who were running th sub-prime mortage scam which triggered the banking crisis at Wall and Main Streets!? |
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Post by kamalet on Jul 27, 2013 9:40:47 GMT 3
Jakaswanga
It is always difficult to argue or convince one that has taken a position in a situation like this. You cannot believe that 2 days before the event some hordes were hired as hecklers for the simple reason it does not appear feasible to you. Many years ago when I was involved in football politics (done many things!!) I sat through a meeting that was intended to heckle Sam Nyamweya and I saw money change hands for the guys that would be hired from Kibera! These things happen and on that intel, Uhuru must have decided to give the event a miss to avoid a situation that could have serious security repercussions....remember that famous meeting in Kisumu between the two daddies of the two boys?
You probably feel that Raila is pressing for a situation that precipitates a situation that brings the ICC matters to the fore.
I think Uhuru has so far conducted himself well by not directly involving himself int he tesaers from Raila preferring to get his sidekicks to do the bidding for him. I have already said that Muthui the government spokesman did not just come out to say the things he said without some authority. My view is that the project to cut Raila down to size has just started and I will not be surprised if the first incident is on his return from the states where he has taken some CORD governors on a tour.
Of course the big question is whether cutting Raila down to size would make this country ungovernable - my answer is that it is highly unlikely he can achieve that objective and would be the loser ultimately. The problem I see is that he is such a poor planner and the people working for him are not entirely very clever. The bottom line is that Raila's political career could come to an end sooner than he would ever have imagined and there will be people waiting on the wings to take over his position!
From a strictly legal point of view, Raila holds no position in the government of Kenya either as a State or a Public officer. His last designation was a Cabinet Minister with duties as a PM. Now that position is not provided for in any of our laws today and neither is there a retirement law for such a position. So he cannot even be equated to a former president or vice president and unless a law is passed to create a specific retirement package he will be no different to a retired Chris Murungaru under the law. Now Uhuru or Ruto owe the man no favours and you have a parliament where a minority CORD is trying to flex the muscles of a six year old against Hulk Hogan by walking out of parliament.
Anyone with a little common sense would not want to rock the boat that Raila needs to navigate to get his dues as a former PM of this country. As it stands today, he is under the mercy of the Jubilee MPs and it makes no sense to antagonise any one of them. But Raila is not your ordinary mortal. He can be annoyingly stupid at times even when he needs all the help he can he still tries to rock the boat!
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 27, 2013 10:04:18 GMT 3
Jakaswanga It is always difficult to argue or convince one that has taken a position in a situation like this. You cannot believe that 2 days before the event some hordes were hired as hecklers for the simple reason it does not appear feasible to you. Many years ago when I was involved in football politics (done many things!!) I sat through a meeting that was intended to heckle Sam Nyamweya and I saw money change hands for the guys that would be hired from Kibera! These things happen and on that intel, Uhuru must have decided to give the event a miss to avoid a situation that could have serious security repercussions....remember that famous meeting in Kisumu between the two daddies of the two boys?! Kamalet It is what I know of Kisii politics that informs me. These highlanders are an independent lot, and if CORDers, even if etnically Kisii, tried to rent young men in Kisii to heckle Jubilee, it wouldn't wash! Politics within Kisii itself would nullify the project. Remember even the great Simeon Nyachae himself, the biggest son of Kisii then, campaigning against Raila at some point, raised the issue of circumcision before a Kisii audience, and declared an uncircumcised Omogere can not be president! it was the Kisiis themselves who told him his 'head had gone off to where the heads of dead go!' So I say showering money in Kisii to hire hecklers to drown off President Uhuru Kenyatta during a funeral in Gusii stadium --did you see how many votes he harvest in that county?--- does not compute. The Kisii are our neighbours Kamalet. I know something about them. It would be suicide for Raila goons to walk around at night with wads of cash hiring hecklers! The Kisii would burn you alive! I am sure the old-fox DGI Gichangi knows this. But Uhuru's goons like Kimemia will believe anything! even that Mary Wamboi is not Kibaki's wife! |
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Post by cheshirecat on Jul 27, 2013 10:25:08 GMT 3
It would appear that the ODM/CORD propaganda machine is finally losing steam as progressively all its utterances and claims are proving to be lies! It started with the one million voters more in the presidential election than the parliamentary and when the number was finally reduced to a measely 86,000 votes the only straw that these guys would hang on to was the fact that Hassan would not take an oath before the parliamentary committee. The came the Kethi saga where the poor girl was made to make strange exclamations in public about how they would prove her father's enemies wrong and that she was registered and her papers would be accepted, the IEBC tribunal and the High Court proved all these wrong. She was a damn liar who was handling stolen property! Unfortunately these lies are not helping ODM and the more they cry wolf the more unbelievable they become. It is easy to accept that the alliance that includes ODM is running around like a headless chicken with the leadership a lot more worried with where the party leaders ass would be placed when he is at the airport! The alliance has been a shambles in parliament where it has been forced to eat humble pie again and again. One cannot even claim tyranny of numbers in the house if you consider that in the previous parliament of the so called grand coalition, the minor party PNU and its alliances with fewer numbers in the house managed to get its legislative agenda through with the ODM group and their numbers only having to rely on a partisan Speaker to win them anything in the house. Perhaps someone needs to tell these people where their problem lies. So listen to me and shhhhhh.....it is right at the top!! Get rid of Raila who is now past his political sell by date, get younger players like Kidero and John Mbandi to take up the leadership and ODM will rise like the phoenix. Raila has bungled just too many times for anyone to actually trust his judgement...just how do you get caught with thousands of dollars in cash literally under a mattress? Why could he not keep the money in a bank account in a country with no forex controls? This guy has led with the claims of 1 million votes and still will not accept that his team is a bungling lot and the 800 page evidence is actually nothing that would have helped his cause! Perhaps he can organise a moot court and invite Judge Judy to preside over arguments on the 800 page and he will still find his team lied to him that they had something in there! Which is why I wonder why they Cord alliance is so excited by the Makueni senatorial by election considering this Raila guy had promised us that the IEBC was irredeemable and any election run by them would be boycotted! So would an election that is won by Kilonzo Jnr a legitimate one that returns the credibility of the IEBC or would a possible loss at the polls point at how bad the IEBC is? Stop these lies, get rid of Raila and you will notice the difference.....free advice from me! Shhhhhh kamalet. Let the sleeping ones sleep. When your enemy wants to hang himself, you find a rope and a firm branch for him. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 27, 2013 13:48:35 GMT 3
Shhhhhh kamalet. Let the sleeping ones sleep. When your enemy wants to hang himself, you find a rope and a firm branch for him. Primitive mentality and a moron's attitude. This is a discussion forum, and we are frankly and openly exchanging our views on national politics. We are in the business of dispensing advice for free, for the sake of the motherland, and enjoying ourselves at it. If Kamalet thinks I am a fool going to bed with Martha, he sure must tell me, and why, and not shy sssshhhhhh like some coy cat wet in the closet; and if I think Uhuru Kenyatta should disband the house of Mpigs to reign in his 'unsustainable' public wage-bill, that is exactly what I say. So, cheshirepusi, why don't you go back to the closet, and shhhhh yourself to sleep? ---fwaking 'rented heckling' hulligoon with nothing to contribute to the debate! |
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Post by omundu on Jul 27, 2013 18:25:11 GMT 3
Shhhhhh kamalet. Let the sleeping ones sleep. When your enemy wants to hang himself, you find a rope and a firm branch for him. Primitive mentality and a moron's attitude. This is a discussion forum, and we are frankly and openly exchanging our views on national politics. We are in the business of dispensing advice for free, for the sake of the motherland, and enjoying ourselves at it. If Kamalet thinks I am a fool going to bed with Martha, he sure must tell me, and why, and not shy sssshhhhhh like some coy cat wet in the closet; and if I think Uhuru Kenyatta should disband the house of Mpigs to reign in his 'unsustainable' public wage-bill, that is exactly what I say. So, cheshirepusi, why don't you go back to the closet, and shhhhh yourself to sleep? ---fwaking 'rented heckling' hulligoon with nothing to contribute to the debate! :-)) Jakaswanga. Someone tried punching above her weight. Don't mind me. I am enjoying this. Maybe its the strong one... Hehehehe. |
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Post by kamalet on Jul 28, 2013 10:33:13 GMT 3
Jakaswanga It is always difficult to argue or convince one that has taken a position in a situation like this. You cannot believe that 2 days before the event some hordes were hired as hecklers for the simple reason it does not appear feasible to you. Many years ago when I was involved in football politics (done many things!!) I sat through a meeting that was intended to heckle Sam Nyamweya and I saw money change hands for the guys that would be hired from Kibera! These things happen and on that intel, Uhuru must have decided to give the event a miss to avoid a situation that could have serious security repercussions....remember that famous meeting in Kisumu between the two daddies of the two boys?! Kamalet It is what I know of Kisii politics that informs me. These highlanders are an independent lot, and if CORDers, even if etnically Kisii, tried to rent young men in Kisii to heckle Jubilee, it wouldn't wash! Politics within Kisii itself would nullify the project. Remember even the great Simeon Nyachae himself, the biggest son of Kisii then, campaigning against Raila at some point, raised the issue of circumcision before a Kisii audience, and declared an uncircumcised Omogere can not be president! it was the Kisiis themselves who told him his 'head had gone off to where the heads of dead go!' So I say showering money in Kisii to hire hecklers to drown off President Uhuru Kenyatta during a funeral in Gusii stadium --did you see how many votes he harvest in that county?--- does not compute. The Kisii are our neighbours Kamalet. I know something about them. It would be suicide for Raila goons to walk around at night with wads of cash hiring hecklers! The Kisii would burn you alive! I am sure the old-fox DGI Gichangi knows this. But Uhuru's goons like Kimemia will believe anything! even that Mary Wamboi is not Kibaki's wife! Jakaswanga Do you then have a logical explanation for the reaction of the local Omugusii MPs who came together to (using media parlance!) condemn the events at funeral? Do they know something you do not know? |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 28, 2013 11:49:06 GMT 3
Kamalet It is what I know of Kisii politics that informs me. These highlanders are an independent lot, and if CORDers, even if etnically Kisii, tried to rent young men in Kisii to heckle Jubilee, it wouldn't wash! Politics within Kisii itself would nullify the project. Remember even the great Simeon Nyachae himself, the biggest son of Kisii then, campaigning against Raila at some point, raised the issue of circumcision before a Kisii audience, and declared an uncircumcised Omogere can not be president! it was the Kisiis themselves who told him his 'head had gone off to where the heads of dead go!' So I say showering money in Kisii to hire hecklers to drown off President Uhuru Kenyatta during a funeral in Gusii stadium --did you see how many votes he harvest in that county?--- does not compute. The Kisii are our neighbours Kamalet. I know something about them. It would be suicide for Raila goons to walk around at night with wads of cash hiring hecklers! The Kisii would burn you alive! I am sure the old-fox DGI Gichangi knows this. But Uhuru's goons like Kimemia will believe anything! even that Mary Wamboi is not Kibaki's wife! Jakaswanga Do you then have a logical explanation for the reaction of the local Omugusii MPs who came together to (using media parlance!) condemn the events at funeral? Do they know something you do not know? I think it is denial in shock. Caught off balance, having misgauged the public mood, momentarily disoriented by the intensity of the passion they saw, fearing for the repercussions of this episode, they have to 'export' the contradiction: blame foreigners/external factors for confusing --corrupting with money--- their otherwise well-behaved  youth!Something changed on the ground of late, Kamalet, even the Corders themselves were surprised at the forceful manifestations of the Kisii youth, demanding Raila. NB: You know not every move by the public is scripted. But a paranoid power, out of touch with any reality, even its own, let alone that of others, will never believe the stupid and ignorant masses are capable of own initiatives. They are always incited by some 'toxic' agent! Even revolutionaries fear 'spontaneous action by the masses', --it is disorganised and unpredictable. That is, out of their control! The breakdown of this control is what unites both opposition and government in terror, the terror of no law, no order. |
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Post by kamalet on Jul 29, 2013 9:15:38 GMT 3
Jakaswanga As long as you continue to believe that the hecklers were spontaneous rather than hirelings of local politicians, our positions remain very different. I not sure if you saw this one from a local where he says the hecklers were hired and you still believe otherwise!So you can continue to believe that what happened in Kisii was spontaneous notwithstanding all evidence to the contrary where I have even given you examples why I think so. I do not believe that the Kisii would so out of normal behaviuor culturally go to the extent of insulting the bereaved to make a political statement. Their neighbours may not see this as an issue, but there are many Kisii friends of mine who are shocked by this incident! |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 29, 2013 22:39:34 GMT 3
Jakaswanga As long as you continue to believe that the hecklers were spontaneous rather than hirelings of local politicians, our positions remain very different. I not sure if you saw this one from a local where he says the hecklers were hired and you still believe otherwise!So you can continue to believe that what happened in Kisii was spontaneous notwithstanding all evidence to the contrary where I have even given you examples why I think so. I do not believe that the Kisii would so out of normal behaviuor culturally go to the extent of insulting the bereaved to make a political statement. Their neighbours may not see this as an issue, but there are many Kisii friends of mine who are shocked by this incident! In that link I read: One of the darkest moments!? I chuckle at what a 'minimalist' attitude to dark moments in history this chap has: East Congo with her 5M dead in 1/2 a decade don't talk of that as one of its darkets moments! chaps say, it could get worse ---like if the war went total! They have an idea of what total is, then 30 days is 1m is dead like happened over at Rwanda in the 'ultimate solution' to the 'cockroach menace'! Desperado youths entombed in the dungeons of capitalist underdevelopment being rowdy at a stadium where their corrupt political elite have come to politick, does not make me loose any sleep. If I want to mourn my dead, I doubt I want to take them to a football stadium and invite the whole political class. If I do that, I know it will be a political occasion, and as such, my grief would not be on the top of anyones agenda, save myself. It is a beat weak in the head to think this was anything other than a political manifestation. The lumpem read it correct, and made themselves heard the way they know how. That is called POLITICAL ACTION. That it is not sanctioned by the powers that be, is another matter. is the church a moral authority in Kenya? officially yes, in reality? these are businesses for hire. They have a price. Where is that Jicho-Pevu guy to go investigate the truth for us! That was a very dark day he fled kenya. One of the darkest for investigative journalism! I swear! |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jul 29, 2013 23:02:42 GMT 3
Jakaswanga:
I am not very up-to-date on Kenyan politics, but I get curious once in a while. Indulge me and explain something: From what I understand, one or two guys got heckled at a funeral. Not very friendly, I admit, and I can see why a few villagers might be upset. But why is it a national issue? (And I should have thought that a place like Kenya, with all its problems, is not short of national issues.) Also, over the years I have been led to believe that funerals + politics is standard fare in Kenya. What makes this one so different?
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Post by einstein on Jul 30, 2013 2:55:59 GMT 3
Did I hear former president Kibaki in the company of the current president Uhuru and his deputy president Ruto at the late Mutula senior's funeral advising us to give his senatorial post to a Mutula progeny and that he, Kibaki, was ready to help the Mutula family reclaim just that position if the Mutula family contacted him?
That was politics in its true sense of the word at a very SOMBRE FUNERAL! ALL funerals are sombre by the way!
And Raila talks politics at a funeral in Kisii and the whole country goes gaga! Give me another one please!!
Nobody is going to bring Raila down. Please try it and the whole country burns to ashes on your very own double standard faces!!
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Post by mank on Jul 30, 2013 6:38:05 GMT 3
Did I hear former president Kibaki in the company of the current president Uhuru and his deputy president Ruto at the late Mutula senior's funeral advising us to give his senatorial post to a Mutula progeny and that he, Kibaki, was ready to help the Mutula family reclaim just that position if the Mutula family contacted him?That was politics in its true sense of the word at a very SOMBRE FUNERAL! ALL funerals are sombre by the way!And Raila talks politics at a funeral in Kisii and the whole country goes gaga! Give me another one please!! Nobody is going to bring Raila down. Please try it and the whole country burns to ashes on your very own double standard faces!! , Kibaki can say weird things but this sounds a little tortured. That would be an interesting read, if you have a link. |
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 30, 2013 21:38:10 GMT 3
Jakaswanga: I am not very up-to-date on Kenyan politics, but I get curious once in a while. Indulge me and explain something: From what I understand, one or two guys got heckled at a funeral. Not very friendly, I admit, and I can see why a few villagers might be upset. But why is it a national issue? (And I should have thought that a place like Kenya, with all its problems, is not short of national issues.) Also, over the years I have been led to believe that funerals + politics is standard fare in Kenya. What makes this one so different? Why is it a national issue? do not be (rofl)silly wewe! The guys heckled were representatives of the Muthamaki, the duly elected Uhuru Kenyatta. And the man the hecklers demanded to adress them was emm, the peoples president, twice cheated off his dues, Amollo Agwambo. This was the legitimacy of Uhuru Kenyatta being rubbished. After he had ben quarantined from the event, which is a humiliation! So more than insult was being added to more than injury! ---and this is why you saw the spokesman spitting venom like an irate caged cobra into the microphone, calling Raila toxic and a captain of goons!2. As I have said above, Kisii is historically a very level-headed area when it comes to politicians from afar. They give Ceasar what is Ceasar's, and the Lord what is the lord's.Apparently no more! now they have caught the Luo disease! it is obvious to social scientists that such a 'mutation in political mentality' can not be ignored. 1. Denial will work for a while ---claiming these Kisii youth were manipulated by Raila and co. Remember it so happened that, when Raila was heckled by Luo youth in Homabay, people like my main man ---O tieno Nyakwamba gir Jokajwang' man but Mbita-- and his ilk, explained it was PNU money, courtesy of a certain Onyango Oloo  , that had 'disorganised' the heads of the 'home'youth -- to unmask an egwugwu. However, a later visit to the scene of crime, got the reading that, the young fellas had been mad at the IMPOSITION of candidates by the party machinery. They wanted independent, real choice! Not riggings. But our political class, themselves always hirelings of somebody else, project their class complex unto all other classes. They then can never accept own initiative of the youth as an explanation to an observed political phenomenom. They deny mental autonomy.Church and elders as authorities!? institutions do erode, when they no longer can adequately respond to a crisis. With youth unemployment at 60% and the church's answer is prayers, I doubt the young men living on their wits have much time for these fallacies and the old men propagating them. The realisation of their looming irrelevance, haunts these traditional authorities! ---If you ask me, which you did! I hope you are hereby indulged!  |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jul 30, 2013 22:30:01 GMT 3
Thank you, my friend. I am indeed indulged. A case of "locational misunderstanding": Over here, we heckle anybody, anywhere and at any time, and nobody gets worked up about it. In fact, we prefer to heckle the Big Person, rather than waste energy on minions; but even the Big Person has "Destroyer's" enlightened attitude: you have your work, and I have mine. And our idea of national issues includes such things as the economy, national security, etc.
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Post by nowayhaha on Aug 1, 2013 17:40:05 GMT 3
Kamalet It is what I know of Kisii politics that informs me. These highlanders are an independent lot, and if CORDers, even if etnically Kisii, tried to rent young men in Kisii to heckle Jubilee, it wouldn't wash! Politics within Kisii itself would nullify the project. Remember even the great Simeon Nyachae himself, the biggest son of Kisii then, campaigning against Raila at some point, raised the issue of circumcision before a Kisii audience, and declared an uncircumcised Omogere can not be president! it was the Kisiis themselves who told him his 'head had gone off to where the heads of dead go!' So I say showering money in Kisii to hire hecklers to drown off President Uhuru Kenyatta during a funeral in Gusii stadium --did you see how many votes he harvest in that county?--- does not compute. The Kisii are our neighbours Kamalet. I know something about them. It would be suicide for Raila goons to walk around at night with wads of cash hiring hecklers! The Kisii would burn you alive! I am sure the old-fox DGI Gichangi knows this. But Uhuru's goons like Kimemia will believe anything! even that Mary Wamboi is not Kibaki's wife! Jakaswanga, Speaking of Kisii politics .It is not different from the politics of the other parts of Kenya i.e.The interests of the community - Politics of how a community can benefit by aligning itself with the others or politics of betrayal- The Kisiis believed by aligning themselves with ODM then they would benefit as the Presidential candidate of CORD/ODM hailing from Nyanza then any development being brought to Luo Nyanza would have passed or would directly benefit them(They were even talks of how a new "Thika Super Highway" will be built in Nyanza) but because Cord terribly lost they are still hurting . Mind you this is the same area Kisii Nyanza that in the same manner accosted Raila during the 2002 presidential campaigns for they felt that he had betrayed Nyachae and supported Kibaki and likewise in the same manner the accosted Ruto during the 2007 Presidential campaigns which led to spontaneous violence which occurred at the borders of Rift Valley and Kisii Nyanza .So by Jubilee leaders missing the event where it was evident there were plans to cause chaos not only does it seem it saved the event turning violent but also its possible it saved later repercussions of large scale spontaneous violence ala 2007-2008 P.E.V. which seems Raila and his brigade is hell bound to cause by the utterances and type of politics he his playing and thus reason why analyst always remind us Raila has political responsibility for the 2007-2008 Post election violence . Remember the 2009 labour event which former President Kibaki skipped fearing the so called embarrassment . Here is the story www.accessmylibrary.com/article-1G1-199051936/kenyan-president-skipped-labour.htmlKenyan president skipped Labour Day event fearing embarrassment - paper. BBC Monitoring International Reports | May 04, 2009 | Copyright Text of report by Lucas Barasa entitled ''Why Kibaki skipped workers' day address'' published by Kenyan privately-owned newspaper Daily Nation website on 4 May; subheadings inserted editorially A last-minute security intervention saved President Kibaki from what would have been a major embarrassment during last Friday's Labour Day celebrations, the Nation has learnt. The head of state had confirmed that he would attend the annual event, but chose to skip it just a day before following intelligence reports that there were plans to disrupt his speech. The government was represented at Uhuru Park by Labour Minister John Munyes, who was forced to cut short his reading of the president's speech when a section of the crowd turned unruly. The crowd jeered at the minister and threw stones at the VIP dais, forcing the festivities to end prematurely. "As you saw, the crowd had no problem until the minister said he had been sent by President Kibaki to deliver his speech," Central Organization of Trade Unions (Cotu) Secretary-General Francis Atwoli told the Nation. Mr Atwoli confirmed that there were credible reports of a plot to disrupt President Kibaki's speech. According to Mr Atwoli, the president has never failed to attend the Labour Day fete since he was first elected in 2002, and had confirmed as way back as January that he would also be present this year. An official programme for the function had also been prepared, showing that the president would be introduced and invited to speak by Vice-President Kalonzo Musyoka. "We were expecting him until a day to the function when the Labour Minister (Mr Munyes) informed us he will not come," he said of President Kibaki, who had just returned from an East African Community meeting in Arusha, Tanzania. "We were sure he was coming," Mr Atwoli said, adding that even his own speech was written with the presence of the head of state in mind. It was the president who endorsed the minimum wage increment that was announced by Mr Munyes. President Kibaki was also scheduled to join Cotu leaders for a luncheon at Stanley Hotel after the function. Government leaders Mr Atwoli expressed concern that all top government leaders, including the president, prime minister and vice-president, failed to show up. Prime Minister Raila Odinga had, however, written to Cotu saying he would not attend the Uhuru Park event, the secretary-general said. Mr Atwoli said he was informed that some politicians had organized a group of youths from Kibera "to come and heckle the president". "I cannot dismiss the intelligence report. I heard of it," he said. "However, the president should have come as people can heckle you but they are still your people. Labour Day is not just about the wage increment, but also about what happens in the economic field. "Some of us are used to facing workers during hostile situations and they should have just been told the truth," Mr Atwoli said. He added: "Even in Zimbabwe, the prime minister attended the celebrations and told the people the country had no money, but they were still happy as they felt the government recognized them." Asked why some people might have wanted to disrupt the celebrations, Mr Atwoli said: "As you know, there are two governments in one. If people are not moving in the same direction, they would want to undo each other in funny ways." However, Mr Atwoli said plans to disrupt the fete could as well have been rumours as some of the youths who had volunteered to provide security at Uhuru Park were from Kibera. Contacted by the Nation, government Spokesman Alfred Mutua, said the president had only "changed his mind". "President Kibaki hoped to attend the event but later decided to delegate his duty by giving a copy of his speech to the relevant minister," Dr Mutua said. On Friday, State House, through Presidential Press Service Director Isaiya Kabira said the president did not snub Labour Day as Mr Munyes read his speech. Premier and vice-president Mr Odinga marked Labour Day in Kibera in his Lang'ata Constituency [Nairobi], where he watched a football match at Woodley football pitch, while Mr Musyoka was in his Mwingi North Constituency. However, during the celebrations, Mr Atwoli took issue with some of the decisions made by the government, including privatization, disposal of public assets and the dispute over the ownership of Migingo Island. Being a national occasion, Mr Atwoli said Labour Day was supposed to be attended by top government officials "as happened in other countries". However, he added that Cotu had no problem with President Kibaki since he had never missed the Labour Day celebrations since he came to power. He had also endorsed new labour laws "and listened to our problems". "I have a soft spot for him," Mr Atwoli said. But the move by the national leader to skip the Labour Day celebrations made workers feel ignored, he insisted. He regretted that enough security was not deployed at Uhuru Park to ensure smooth running of the event. If it were not for him, "the crowd would have killed the minister (Mr Munyes)", he said. The crowd threw stones towards the dais and jeered at the minister, shouting "Unga (maize flour)", "Migingo" and "Stima (electricity)". Mr Munyes was forced to skip most of the speech and only read the part that was announcing an 18 to 20 per cent increase in the minimum wage before the meeting ended abruptly. Source: Daily Nation website, Nairobi, in English 4 May 09 BBC Monitoring |
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again here. When it comes to costs of business, law and matters pertaining our foreign relations, Kamalet of Jukwaa is as hot as a thermonuclear power core. I demand no less of him when he comes to Raila vs Uhuruto!
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youth!
, that had 'disorganised' the heads of the 'home'youth --to unmask an egwugwu. However, a later visit to the scene of crime, got the reading that, the young fellas had been mad at the IMPOSITION of candidates by the party machinery. They wanted independent, real choice! Not riggings.
