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Post by omundustrong on Aug 12, 2013 22:21:18 GMT 3
PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM OR PRESIDENTIAL WHICH WAY KENYA
CORD coalition is pushing for a referendum that proposes that Kenya adopts a parliamentary system of Government to check the excesses of the presidential system. Whereas the idea may have its merits the timing is suspect particularly coming in the wake of pronouncements not once, not twice from ODM Mps that the jubilee government will not last for two years.
What the MPs are not saying is how this will happen. May be they are banking on the referendum after collecting one million signatures from registered voters, not Kethi for this case. The million signatures will be easy to raise but let’s stay with the issues. What has changed three months into the new government’s regime to warrant a constitutional change? Is this reminiscent of THE CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION MOVEMENT that tried to block Moi from succeeding Kenyatta? What if CORD had won would we still go for a referendum to change the constitution so that we have a parliamentary system of government? The answers to the above questions aren’t moot.
My take is that we don’t need a referendum now. Devolution is not championed by any politician because he or she loves Kenyans but as a bargaining chip for political power. The champion of devolution is and remains the common mwananchi.Anything that the politicians tell us is just hogwash.
If and when the mwananchi feels that devolution is threatened they will do the needful. We have just experienced the devious and greedy ways of parliament in railroading bills in parliament that enriches them at the expense of the common man. What assurance do we have that parliament will be prudent in governing the country better as opposed to the presidential system?
However, the constitution gives us the mandate and right to change it by a way of referendum on such an important matter as governance, therefore let those agitating for this change exercise their rights but the outcome will be as shocking as waking up and finding yourself naked in front of your in-laws.
“You can never solve a problem with the same kind of thinking that created the problem in the first place”-Albert Einstein
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Post by kamalet on Aug 13, 2013 8:57:04 GMT 3
CORD knows it is going no where with this referendum call and it is nothing more than try to stay in the limelight with nothing to say.
First they went for devolution as being frustrated by Jubilee, but the Uhuruto government has actually managed to ride this a lot better with the engagement of governors. We are at a point that the governors now must endear themselves to the public or will be held responsible for the failure of devolution! The National government is reigning on free spending governors and has declined to give counties money that cannot balance their budgets which I think is as it should be.
As for the parliamentary of presidential system, they are not addressing the one important thing - Tyranny of Numbers - which is something tribal arithmetic will not change! How else do they explain the inordinate majority of Jubilee in both houses which means with either system, Jubilee would still rule Kenya?
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Post by omundustrong on Aug 13, 2013 21:08:15 GMT 3
Two ODM MPs from Ugunja and Rarieda Mr.Opiyo Wandai and Nicholas Gumbo plan to table a bill to impeach Uhuru and Ruto next month.We are headed for interesting political times ahead.The March 4th movement fronted by Eliud Owalo and Okiya Omtata is set to be launched tomorrow are these precursors to events that will lead to the Jubilee Government not lasting two years as predicted?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Aug 14, 2013 18:11:19 GMT 3
CORD knows it is going no where with this referendum call and it is nothing more than try to stay in the limelight with nothing to say. First they went for devolution as being frustrated by Jubilee, but the Uhuruto government has actually managed to ride this a lot better with the engagement of governors. We are at a point that the governors now must endear themselves to the public or will be held responsible for the failure of devolution! The National government is reigning on free spending governors and has declined to give counties money that cannot balance their budgets which I think is as it should be. As for the parliamentary of presidential system, they are not addressing the one important thing - Tyranny of Numbers - which is something tribal arithmetic will not change! How else do they explain the inordinate majority of Jubilee in both houses which means with either system, Jubilee would still rule Kenya? You hit it out of the park Kamale, as always. Raila and CORD know that they have no chance on hell of winning anything come 2017 especially if UhuRuto implement the programs they have on their agenda. A conscious decision has therefore been made by the ever selfish and self-seekers in ODM to make sure that they keep the general populace agitated, anxious and hateful for their own benefit in the next election. The bad news for them is, UhuRuto are very focused and more astute politically than even Moi ever was. Remember the so called opposition tried to ride the teachers' strike, we all saw how the government dealt with it. With their tails in between their legs, they jumped onto the governors' referendum band-wagon, UhuRuto have made sure that the ball is squarely in the governors' court thus, forcing ODM to come out in the open with their real agenda for the referendum (change the constitution for Raila). www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Lobby+seeks+change+in+presidential+election+law/-/1064/1947718/-/exf7srz/-/index.htmlThe truth be told, even this one, I just do not see how it serves them even if the constitution was changed today for the simple reason that Kamale mentions above, 'the tyranny of numbers', it is one fixture in our politics that we cannot just wish away regardless of the system we adopt. Remember it is only three years since we changed the constitution to the model that according to Miguna Miguna, Raila rooted and advocated for. How did that go? Meanwhile, Mr. President speaketh: ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ |
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Post by omundustrong on Aug 15, 2013 15:45:39 GMT 3
Let Kenyans ventillate on this referendum issue but as for me i think the timing and motivation for it now is suspect.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Aug 15, 2013 18:46:46 GMT 3
Let Kenyans ventillate on this referendum issue but as for me i think the timing and motivation for it now is suspect. , I just do not understand what exactly Kenyans are supposed to ventilate about. We just had the first elections under the new constitution, most institutions established therein, are only beginning to take root and shape. More than half the counties have not even had there budgets done, the relationship between the two houses as well as the national and county governments is only beginning to be charted. I find it very selfish and disingenuous that we are supposed to engage in a discourse about changing the katiba even before we experience the very new katiba and establish the gray areas that need fixing in a holistic manner. As it is, we are only being invited to discuss why so and so lost the elections and so and so won, which to me is a very myopic approach really. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ |
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Post by omundustrong on Aug 15, 2013 21:11:10 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu,i totally agree with you, but then the essence of democracy demands that they be heard and the public through expression of their opinion just like we are doing here will have the final say as to whether we really need a referendum now.My views on this are clear that the timing is wrong,the motive is wrong,the intention may be good.
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Post by mank on Aug 15, 2013 21:40:47 GMT 3
Another referendum? Seriously? Are we just writing a story and can edit mid-way a sentence or paragraph, or what do these agitators take constitution-making to be? What nonsense!
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Post by omundustrong on Aug 16, 2013 11:00:40 GMT 3
This is what Ruto has to say as reported by The Star
Ruto says referendum calls are premature
Friday, August 16, 2013 - 00:00 -- BY ALLOYS MUSYOKA
Deputy President William Ruto has hit out at those calling for a referendum to change the constitution. Ruto said governors and senators who have ganged up with Cord leaders to change the constitution before it is fully implemented have no goodwill for Kenyans.
He said a referendum will negatively affect the country’s economy adding that the country has for the last 10 years been engaging in election-related activities. Ruto was speaking during official opening of Law Society of Kenya conference at Leisure Lodge resort in Kwale on Wednesday.
He said those pushing for a referendum should think of the Kenyans they claim they act for. “The question i want to ask those pushing for referendum is, suppose they won the election would they be crusading for a referendum to change the constitution?”,he asked.
Ruto called on former PM Raila Odinga and his Cord team pushing for a referendum to change the presidential to a parliamentary system to relax and wait for the next election. “People should understand that once you lose in election there is something called next time,” he said.
Ruto said in 2002 he lost election together with president Uhuru Kenyatta and they went back to recollect themselves. “After losing election 2002, in 2005 there was a referendum and election in 2007 and 2010 referendum before a general election this year. Now you want to tell Kenyans to go for a referendum again? Not this time,” he said.
Ruto said those calling for the referendum are the same ones who campaigned for the same constitution they now want changed. “We have tightened our belts, ties, plans and programs to implement devolution and so there should be no worry by anybody,” said Ruto.
The DP also noted that they have started rolling out plans to give solution to Kenyans having land problem. He said their critics should give them opportunity to deliver to Kenyans.
“Let our friends and Kenyans judge us after four and half years from now. Now we want to give Kenyans what we promised to them. There is no need for a referendum,” he noted.
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Post by kamalet on Aug 16, 2013 12:31:45 GMT 3
What we are seeing is the never changing face of the Kenyan Politician. The Kenyan politician has this notion that everything has an easy way out! A couple of recent examples......
MPs believe that changing the constitution so that they are no longer STATE OFFICERS which removes them from the grip of the SRC allowing themselves to hike their pay at will!
Senators and Governors ganging up against the National Assembly under the guise of saving devolution - this rush to amend the constitution to make the Senate superior to the National Assembly as well as the Governors pushing to have the constitution changed to increase their share of revenue to 45% and with the approval of the Senate only - kicking out the National Assembly!
The clamour by the governors for more money is nothing more than a realisation that they cannot balance their budget or even collect sufficient revenue to survive hence the quest for more money from the national government!
As for the ODM/Wiper change the presidential election campaign, the motivation is nothing more than the misplaced belief that just because they won more governor seats, making counties the electoral college could turn things in favour of Raila. Forget the shortsightedness of the mandarins there who cannot remember that CORD has fewer senators than Jubilee and these are people elected by a county so the numbers that they are worried about will still not add up. Trying to sell the government as one made of Kikuyus and Kalenjins despite being wrong does not help these guys one bit! The majorities in both houses are not from the two communities, but from several others!! So how does one run away from the tyranny of numbers?
But I am perhaps seeing through the Raila ruse many do not seem to see! There are ongoing threats by the younger ODM supporters who have been shouting for the likes of Anyang Nyong to retire from the leadership of the party and these guys are selling it to Raila that he is the ultimate target. So bringing in the idea of a referendum makes sense as it being "a national agenda" it will require a Raila to lead it. With Raila as deluded about power as Moi was, he starts leading a campaign to nowhere with the usual gusto without having thought through whether that is what Kenyans want!!
So we need to wait out the one month ultimatum to see if this was ever going anywhere!
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Post by mank on Aug 19, 2013 4:04:24 GMT 3
... The clamour by the governors for more money is nothing more than a realisation that they cannot balance their budget or even collect sufficient revenue to survive hence the quest for more money from the national government!... Kamale, What's your view on that point? Taking what you said above to be the truth, and I trust it is, I would think indeed counties need more money. After all it is because the National Government is left with the bulk of the loaf that there is so much for Mpigs to get spoilt on - not that counties can't follow the national example, but chances are that wastage so close to the people is more prone to control. Besides, who is to say its wrong if a country decides that fattening its king is its priority! Of course increasing county ration does not take a referendum. |
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Post by kamalet on Aug 19, 2013 10:29:20 GMT 3
... The clamour by the governors for more money is nothing more than a realisation that they cannot balance their budget or even collect sufficient revenue to survive hence the quest for more money from the national government!... Kamale, What's your view on that point? Taking what you said above to be the truth, and I trust it is, I would think indeed counties need more money. After all it is because the National Government is left with the bulk of the loaf that there is so much for Mpigs to get spoilt on - not that counties can't follow the national example, but chances are that wastage so close to the people is more prone to control. Besides, who is to say its wrong if a country decides that fattening its king is its priority! Of course increasing county ration does not take a referendum. In a most simplistic way, National Government money is spent all over the country hence the money would still have been spent in a county the difference being who is spending it! My preference would have been to see how these governors spent the 210 billion allocated to them first! If this is not enough stimulus to collect revenue, then we might as well just kill devolution and got he CDF way!!! |
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Post by nowayhaha on Aug 19, 2013 14:25:09 GMT 3
PARLIAMENTARY SYSTEM OR PRESIDENTIAL WHICH WAY KENYA CORD coalition is pushing for a referendum that proposes that Kenya adopts a parliamentary system of Government to check the excesses of the presidential system. Whereas the idea may have its merits the timing is suspect particularly coming in the wake of pronouncements not once, not twice from ODM Mps that the jubilee government will not last for two years. What the MPs are not saying is how this will happen. May be they are banking on the referendum after collecting one million signatures from registered voters, not Kethi for this case. The million signatures will be easy to raise but let’s stay with the issues. What has changed three months into the new government’s regime to warrant a constitutional change? Is this reminiscent of THE CHANGE THE CONSTITUTION MOVEMENT that tried to block Moi from succeeding Kenyatta? What if CORD had won would we still go for a referendum to change the constitution so that we have a parliamentary system of government? The answers to the above questions aren’t moot. My take is that we don’t need a referendum now. Devolution is not championed by any politician because he or she loves Kenyans but as a bargaining chip for political power. The champion of devolution is and remains the common mwananchi.Anything that the politicians tell us is just hogwash. If and when the mwananchi feels that devolution is threatened they will do the needful. We have just experienced the devious and greedy ways of parliament in railroading bills in parliament that enriches them at the expense of the common man. What assurance do we have that parliament will be prudent in governing the country better as opposed to the presidential system? However, the constitution gives us the mandate and right to change it by a way of referendum on such an important matter as governance, therefore let those agitating for this change exercise their rights but the outcome will be as shocking as waking up and finding yourself naked in front of your in-laws. “You can never solve a problem with the same kind of thinking that created the problem in the first place”-Albert Einstein Its clear that this is not about the Presidential system or Parliamentary system .This is about Raila trying to get power , he has tried all means from 1997 democratic means, 1982 coup,Using Violence in 2007 and by using a tailored consitution (50%+1) threshold but he has never achieved that goal .He is now trying another luck by campaigning to change the constituion. Ahmed Nassir puts it down the way he does it best. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Agitation+for+constitutional+change+will+fail/-/440808/1957676/-/maex6b/-/index.htmlBy Ahmednasir Abdullahi More by this Author The tribal, egocentric and primitive politics that defines our situation is with us again. Five months after a General Election, the country, against the wishes of the majority of Kenyans, is being edged into another senseless and divisive agitation. In a political setup in which ordinary Kenyans are voiceless, indeed pawns in the endless and ruthless pursuit of power and wealth by their tribal leaders, we see Cord and its leaders hitting the campaign trail, emotionally advocating an overhaul of the Constitution. Their robotic tribesmen, with closed eyes, have jumped into the bandwagon. They fervently agree that, indeed, a Constitution that does not give their leader a smooth sail or an advantage to win the presidency one final time is not a worthy Constitution. We see, in front of our eyes, a sudden rationalisation to change the constitution. It’s a no brainer and it will end in another disaster, defeat and despair. We are duty bound, as rational Kenyans, to warn and advise these agitators for constitutional change that this pursuit of individual-centric politics is a relic of the past, a blatant case of hero-worship and a selfish pursuit of individual glory at the expense of public good. The agitation to change the Constitution is a consequence of Cord leaders’ refusal to agree that on March 4, Kenyans made a choice as to their leaders. That choice was a constitutional mandate for Uhuru Kenyatta and William Ruto to rule and reign. Prior to the elections, not many Kenyan politicians saw the need to change the Constitution. The document was roundly praised and, indeed, it is a very practical and progressive Constitution. It must be remembered that it has taken us about 25 years to get the current Constitution. It passed in the second referendum. Billions of shillings were spent in the process. It is the final product of delicate tribal and political negotiations. And Kenyans ratified it overwhelmingly in a referendum. If Ruto was leading the call for constitutional change, many Kenyans would have given him a chance to state his reasons. His call would also have been viewed favourably. He would have been seen as an honest and decent man whose agitation to change the Constitution was genuine. But Ruto opposed the constitution and led with gusto the “No” campaign. He pointed to a number of weaknesses that needed change and suggested improvement. When his team was defeated in the referendum, he accepted the wishes of the majority. Raila Odinga, on the other hand, is one politician who can lay a proprietary claim to the form and substance of the constitution. His views and political aspirations were taken into consideration at every turn in the constitution making process. His advisers made sure that Raila’s grand goal to become president was not derailed by the constitution. I challenge Kenyans to read the views of his lieutenants and sidekicks in the Naivasha retreats on the making of the Constitution. In so far as the political aspects of the Constitution, it was literally tailor-made for him. Political power is the end process of a constitutional process. The March election turned on its head the delicate constitutional engineering experiment undertaken by Raila. It both imploded and exploded. The numbers didn’t add up. How do you address a mathematical problem that doesn’t add up? Raila has a simple solution: Change the Constitution and try one final time a parliamentary system. The agitation to change the Constitution underlines a pathetic and sorry state of affairs. Instead of agitating for a parliamentary system, my advice to this brigade is to go straight to the result they seek to achieve through the constitutional change. Simply draft a constitutional provision that reads that the IEBC will declare Raila the winner when he contests the presidency next time! That will save us a lot of trouble! Ahmednasir is the publisher, Nairobi Law Monthly macalin91@gmail.com |
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Post by vascodagama on Aug 20, 2013 2:02:58 GMT 3
Without Intending to, KORD may go down in history as the party that 'killed' devolution during the second republic. This is because if they insist on having a referendum on whatever question relating to the current constitution, many Kenyans could grasp the opportunity so provided to seek a vote on the possibility 'doing away' with the senate and devolving to the constituencies. There is a very real possibility that such a vote could win the day. So, the more KORD sings about referendum, the more the call for the third and fourth question gains momentum.
What KORD is doing is tantamount to a man trying to eat honey by swallowing a live bee!!
It stings somewhere down the throat.....
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Post by mank on Aug 23, 2013 15:59:37 GMT 3
Kamale, What's your view on that point? Taking what you said above to be the truth, and I trust it is, I would think indeed counties need more money. After all it is because the National Government is left with the bulk of the loaf that there is so much for Mpigs to get spoilt on - not that counties can't follow the national example, but chances are that wastage so close to the people is more prone to control. Besides, who is to say its wrong if a country decides that fattening its king is its priority! Of course increasing county ration does not take a referendum. In a most simplistic way, National Government money is spent all over the country hence the money would still have been spent in a county the difference being who is spending it! My preference would have been to see how these governors spent the 210 billion allocated to them first! If this is not enough stimulus to collect revenue, then we might as well just kill devolution and got he CDF way!!! Sure, I agree with your point on accountability - let's see what they have done with it. Let counties even table budgets before they are funded, and subsequently let them produce track records of the projects previously funded, before being funded again. But on the argument that the National Government spends money all over, we know how they do it, and it is not as benevolent as your statement may suggest - sending busy bodies to China to look through windows of furniture shops, touring all sorts of places peddling wealth in the ground, debating on constitutional changes so MPigs can recoup there monopoly on deciding how much of that National Budget should be their personal pocket projects ... etc etc! I think the better role of the National Government would be an oversight (of county accountability through self-driving tools as I suggest above) role and coordination of national programs. Local projects should be funded at county levels, with sound feasibility foundations. We need a cultivate not only accountability but also competition among counties. As long as there is monopoly in spending at the National Government, devolution is just a cost-adding endeavour that leaves its productive potential unutilized. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Aug 27, 2013 5:54:17 GMT 3
Namwamba speaketh devolution Finally a voice of reason from CORD on matters devolution. As some of us have argued here, devolution, just like reforms is increasingly being reduced into yet another cliche by the usual suspects for very short term selfish gains. Ababu Namwamba agrees: ________ Namwamba: Stop crying wolf... just make devolution work
By Ababu Namwamba
The Boy who Cried Wolf” is a Greek fable of a shepherd boy who tricks nearby villagers into thinking a wolf is attacking his flock. He repeats this so many times that when the sheep are actually confronted by a wolf, the villagers do not believe his cries for help and the flock is destroyed. Applying the moral of this story to political alarmism, Samuel Croxal asks: “When we are alarmed with imaginary dangers in respect of the public, till the cry grows quite stale and threadbare, how can it be expected we should know when to guard ourselves against real ones?” Political alarmism and fear mongering have brewed a potent cocktail that Kenyans seem to find simply irresistible. And the quintessential Kenyan politician understands this intimately, deftly toying with the public psyche through illusions of “communal” threats. It is this siege-mentality that motivates whole communities to rally around common criminals, who thieve from the public in the knowledge that when nabbed, just run to your ethnic cocoon and scream “heeeelp, they want to finish us”! I am alarmed that this malaise is swiftly enveloping devolution. Whether in a village funeral in Loitoktok or in some nondescript rally in Todonyang, the most fashionable route to the headlines now is to scream ‘wolf’ about devolution. Just claim a heavily armed alien armada has left Pluto, destination Kenya, mission to annihilate everything devolution...and voila! You are a decorated devolution war hero! “ Devolution sabotage” is now the political camouflage of choice. Are you a Senator and you want a million signatures to tweek the Constitution and pamper yourself with superior powers? Easy, just say the National Assembly is out to finish devolution! Are you a Governor who craves a monster limo with all imperial trappings? Rahisi sana, simply rant that the national government is squeezing life out of counties! Any Jubilee or CORD hawk itching to score some cheap political point? Just scream the rival coalition is anti-devolution! Tragically, this shadow boxing is sending everyone into panic and masking the real issues. At the government co-ordinating summit last Wednesday, President Uhuru Kenyatta ordered immediate transfer of all devolved functions to counties by July 1. This is reckless panic that ignores fundamental basics. Article 15 of Schedule 4 to Constitution enacts a phased transfer of functions over a period of three years from the date of the first election under the Constitution. The Transition to Devolved Government Act, 2012 establishes criteria to be met before particular functions are devolved, to ensure that county governments are not loaded functions they cannot perform. The President has also seemed rather woozy over the Sh210 billion budget for the counties. Why, when this is more than double the 15 per cent threshold decreed by the Constitution, and especially in the absence of demonstrated capacity to absorb more funds in a planned, prudent and accountable manner? The County Governments Financial Management Act, 2011 requires the governor to set priorities that guide the budget process and to determine how the integrated development plan shapes the budget. How many governors have carefully sieved budgetary plans as required by law? Indeed, the whole debate over an additional Sh48 billion has sounded every inch “penny-wise, pound-foolish”. That amount translates to roughly Sh1 billion per county. Are we saying county governments have no fiscal wherewithal to handle any budget deficits through austerity measures in similar manner as we demand of the national government? We must pay keen attention to county governments and demand accountability. In Kisumu, Governor Jack Ranguma is reportedly domiciled in a hotel room that is gobbling Sh12,000 a night. He has also allocated Sh72 million to purchase luxury cars. Bungoma Governor Ken Lusaka wants to spend Sh50 million “to fight pornography!” In Kiambu, Speaker Nick Ndichu faces the sack for pandering to the whims of Governor William Kabogo and travelling to Australia irregularly. Nakuru Governor Kinuthia Mbugua is under fire from Speaker Susan Kihika for swearing in nine executives after the County Assembly had rejected them. Are counties equipped to address such excesses? Are the oversight organs prepared for the audit reports the Auditor-General will soon prepare on each county? We all want devolution to work. But the devolution we carefully crafted in the Constitution is not about ego-titles, flashy-flags and primitive accumulation of toys of power. Devolution is about opening doors of opportunity for ordinary Kenyans to lead a better life within their own localities. The ultimate custodian of devolution is the Constitution and the Supreme Court, not politicians whose primary motivation is survival. Let us make the real devolution work and stop wasting time crying wolf! www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000086566~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ |
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Post by omundustrong on Aug 27, 2013 12:01:59 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu,this is what we have all along said here on Jukwaa.We called their bluff very early when they tried a red herring of presidential vs parliamentary they quickly latched on increasing devolution money.We, the people, are the custodian of the constitution and not some loud mouth politicians whose interests are at variance with ours always.
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