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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 13, 2013 7:20:57 GMT 3
It is almost 20 years since the Rwandan Genocide, and we are still shocked that such an event could have occurred so late in the 20th Century, a century in which, we are told, "the most progress has occurred in the shortest period". Over the years, I have discussed the Rwandan Genocide with many people, from many different nations, and whatever their views, there is one that seems to be almost universal: "the international community should have acted sooner!".
The "international community" cannot always act, especially when faced with misguided wails about colonialism, imperialism, neo-colonialism, ... we all know the isms. But there are cases where it must act, and "genocide" and "crimes against humanity" are among those. Whence the International Criminal Court.
I will not here go into all the sorts of beastly behaviour that the ICC seeks to punish, but I will point out two things in relation to "crimes against humanity". The first is the UN's Universal Declaration of Human Rights, which almost all countries accept or at least claim to accept. The key point here is "human rights"---not Kenyan rights, not Congolese rights, not Whatever rights. Human rights. That is, there are rights that one has simply from the fact of one's humanity. These rights are independent of, and supersede, ones's profession, gender, ... and especially nationality.
In the 20th Century, many peoples, but African peoples especially, have experienced the most brutish nastiness at the hands of their so-called leaders. We all know that, so I will not dwell on it. At the same time, with respect to Africa, even the mildest reprimand from the rest of the world has brought misguided wails about colonialism, imperialism, neo-colonialism ... and always the same nonsense from the people who benefit from and wish to see continued the brutish nastiness. I am African (Kenyan), but I do not see that as a permit for any so-called African (Kenyan) leader to do with me as he or she pleases. I believe that my human rights are far more than my nationality or origin. And that too is how, I believe, most humans see these things. That is why I am a very strong supporter of the ICC.
This is not where I wish to discuss views on the ICC, but I will mention two points: First, well over 100 countries are signatories to the Rome Statute. Second, despite all sorts of threats and nonsense--by individual African countries, by various subsets of African countries, by the African Union, ...--not a single country has actually pulled out of the Statute. Indeed, we have the case of African country that is not a signatory to the Rome Statute but which has nevertheless (on certain matters) surrendered jurisdiction to the ICC.
What I have written above is actually secondary to my main point, of which this commentary forms the first part. I have written it by way of indicating that certain excuses will simply no longer work, and this is especially so when they come from criminals and their supporters. I urge them to find better arguments. If you are so inclined, exercise your imagination and come up with something better than the lame-and-tired "Western puppet!", "House black person!", and the usual isms. But fair warning: no matter what it is, it won't make the slightest difference to me.
And, now the Kenyan case. First, no matter what one's views are of the ICC, there are two very hard facts that most be borne in mind. One: the ICC exists and will exist for a very long time. Two: some Kenyans are due to be tried at the ICC for crimes against humanity. We may wail and gnash teeth over that, but there it is. In the vernacular, mta do?
Let's now get to the matter of Maina Njenga, former leader of Mungiki. (This is an "opener", and there is more to come.) There is hardly any Kenyan who needs to be told about Mungiki and its activities. Some may put forth the usual nonsense about unemployed youth forced to engage in extortion, robbery by violence, beheadings, .. in order to make a living. But seriously! Exercise your imagination, and try to do better than manamba arguments.
But let's skip all that for now and get to the core of the matter. Maina Njenga and his party are now part of a coalition that stands as good a chance as its strongest competition of forming the next government of Kenya. Before I delve into that, a couple of things:
(1) Mungiki members have been victims of extra-judicial killings, and that will come up at the ICC trials. There is no doubt that most of Mungiki's membership consists of very nasty animals, but we all must denounce any extra-judicial killings. The fact that during such killings Raila went and held hands (and maybe wept) with Mungiki types has absolutely nothing to do with the nasty, very nasty criminal activities. Maybe he even gave them books to read. Still irrelevant.
Even where such killings were meant to get rid of those with intimate knowledge of certain PEV activities, we must keep in mind that being a victim of a crime does not in any way excuse one's criminality. Maina Njenga and his friends did what they did, and it's what they have been doing for a long time.
Mungiki under Maina Njenga is now the only organization in Case 2 at the ICC, and it is absolutely important to keep in mind that when the Prosecution brings up the matter of extra-judicial killings, it will be by way of proving that that Mungiki and Maina Njenga played the roles they are accused of having played.
One should also keep in mind that the ICC deals with just those at the very top, in terms of criminal responsibility. Indeed, the principle of complementarity requires this. Therefore, even a devil like Njenga does not "qualify" for their attention, however devilish he might be---as long as he's just a tool. (This is by way of pre-empting comments like "if he's so bad, why isn't he at the ICC?)
(2) Whether Maina Njenga is now reformed, has a church, is a bishop, whatever has absolutely no relevance to the matter before the ICC---that is, the role that they played in the PEV.
I mention this because there are those who have hinted that Njenga has "his side of the story" and perhaps when people talk to him some details might come forth, etc. etc. etc. Undoubtedly, Njenga has "his side of the story", and, undoubtedly it might come out if people talked to him at length. But the simple fact is that it hasn't come out. More importantly, we have the hard case at the ICC. Whatever Njenga's story might be, what we have, and which is very clear, is what has been put forth in the ICC case.
Simply put, there is nothing in the ICC case that depends on Njenga's "side of the story", his reformation and church, ... whatever. The ICC judges have simply looked at the evidence, and, without talking to the fellow, made far-reaching conclusions. And they have seen, and know, a great deal more than we do.
With those somewhat lengthy preliminaries out of the way, let us now get down to it: what exactly is Maina Njenga doing in CORD, and what does his inclusion say about Raila Odinga?
It appears to be the case that Raila was very badly advised and at some point thought that Njenga had millions of youth supporting him and that this could be his path to breaking Uhuru's stranglehold on Central Province. In the event, even with the most vigorous campaign-assistance from both Njenga and Raila, the Mungiki candidate could hardly muster 300 votes. Raila's problem now---and this is an old story---is that having made a bargain with the Devil, he finds it hard to back out. Njenga will not do him any good, but he will not cut him lose? Which brings us to the fundamental questions: (i) what sort of advisors does Raila have around him? (ii) is Raila still capable of making hard decisions when he has to, e.g. when he has to cut his losses and run; (iii) if Raila wins, what can we expect of play-it-by-ear leader and a coalition that includes some of Kenya's worst criminals?; (iv) how would a Raila government deal with the fact of one his coalition partners featuring large at the ICC?
Furthermore: Raila's business with Maina Njenga is more than just an ill-judged short-term decision. It is the sharpest stick he could have poked in the eyes of the PEV victims and their relatives. It shows an insatiable hankering for power and incredible callousness.
But more than that, we have to stop and think about what we might be signing up for in a Raila presidency: Here we see man for whom power has become the an end to itself. Here we see what happens to a reformer when, as the saying goes, he has "fallen among thieves"---and with Maina Njenga that is literally so. Here we see Raila starting on the path that many an African revolutionary reformer has trodden---from Heroic Saviour to ... Look at Mugabe. Look at Gbagbo. Etc.
If people intend to vote for Raila on the basis that he's the best of a bad lot, why not. But don't expect any change for the better. More importantly, ask yourself if it might not get worse.
If you can, try to recall (in Kenya) the end of 2007 and the start of 2008. Where were you? What were you doing? What were your thoughts? And do you recall Mungiki before the PEV? Have you noted that Mungiki is (at the ICC) now smack in the middle of it?
And now Mungiki and its leader could be part of the next government of this country. Food for thought.
Coming up: CORD's Con: Maina Njenga, Part 2
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bob
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Post by bob on Jan 13, 2013 9:57:18 GMT 3
otishotish
What is this silly ,sick obsession of trying so hard to link RAO to Maina Njenga's misdeeds? This will never work many have tried before & have failed. Cord is a national party & does not choose its supporters,they trickle from all parts of the country voluntarily. We all know who have been the financiers of mungiki so trying to confuse Kenyans that RAO is a very bad leader because mkenya solidarity party is among the small parties that joined Cord is misplaced & juvenile to say the least. You are at liberty to write a million chapters on your Cord's con or call him Cord's son for all we care ,it will never change a thing.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 13, 2013 12:24:28 GMT 3
With those somewhat lengthy preliminaries out of the way, let us now get down to it: what exactly is Maina Njenga doing in CORD, and what does his inclusion say about Raila Odinga?It appears to be the case that Raila was very badly advised and at some point thought that Njenga had millions of youth supporting him and that this could be his path to breaking Uhuru's stranglehold on Central Province. In the event, even with the most vigorous campaign-assistance from both Njenga and Raila, the Mungiki candidate could hardly muster 300 votes. Raila's problem now---and this is an old story---is that having made a bargain with the Devil, he finds it hard to back out. Njenga will not do him any good, but he will not cut him lose? Which brings us to the fundamental questions: (i) what sort of advisors does Raila have around him? (ii) is Raila still capable of making hard decisions when he has to, e.g. when he has to cut his losses and run; (iii) if Raila wins, what can we expect of play-it-by-ear leader and a coalition that includes some of Kenya's worst criminals?; (iv) how would a Raila government deal with the fact of one his coalition partners featuring large at the ICC? Furthermore: Raila's business with Maina Njenga is more than just an ill-judged short-term decision. It is the sharpest stick he could have poked in the eyes of the PEV victims and their relatives. It shows an insatiable hankering for power and incredible callousness. Otishotish, It would appear on this Maina Njenga in CORD issue, firmly in bed with Raila the reform candidate, you tread on many a long toe. (The better imagery my side of the world would be: you are poking a wound, -- isoko kar malutu). I already caught your mental faculties being doubted --you inciteful jeer! ;D, in operation discredit I think, which reminded me of my fellow Jaluos declaring Miguna mad, because his book muddied their King's shine. You have even managed to re-awaken the ghost who now habits the dead handle Einstein. (By the way I am tired of footing up the bills for the tribal rituals which must be, to re-lay the ghost back to RIP every time you awaken it! so I will be suing! YOU! next time for recompense!) I do not know where you come from, but my guess, unlike Sadiq's, is that you are an Al-Shabaab born in Mount Kenya! But well, in the rat race, some of us get paid to shift through large volumes of script to find the gems if any. That is what miners too, do as I found out as one. Shift through tonnes of rock for a few grams of diamond for example. So let me be patient, and see if an Al-Shabaab like you, despite intent to blow up the Luo Hilton, has a point in his madness. But more than that, we have to stop and think about what we might be signing up for in a Raila presidency: Here we see man for whom power has become the an end to itself. Here we see what happens to a reformer when, as the saying goes, he has "fallen among thieves"---and with Maina Njenga that is literally so. Here we see Raila starting on the path that many an African revolutionary reformer has trodden---from Heroic Saviour to ... Look at Mugabe. Look at Gbagbo. Etc. If people intend to vote for Raila on the basis that he's the best of a bad lot, why not. But don't expect any change for the better. More importantly, ask yourself if it might not get worse. If you can, try to recall (in Kenya) the end of 2007 and the start of 2008. Where were you? What were you doing? What were your thoughts? And do you recall Mungiki before the PEV? Have you noted that Mungiki is (at the ICC) now smack in the middle of it? And now Mungiki and its leader could be part of the next government of this country. Food for thought.Coming up: CORD's Con: Maina Njenga, Part 2EVOLUTION INTO AN ACCEPTED GANGSTER STATE. It is possible to define Kenya as an evolving gangster state currently. She runs death squads. Brave enough to kill even their own ranked soldiers. Extra-judicial with impunity. -She runs organised crimes, where the police force and security services are the muscle. And politicians the brief-cased businessmen. The monies involved means a battalion of lawyers, accountants, banks and clerks are in the game. Rates and levels of conviction characterise a dysfunctional judicial system: Professors Muigai (AG) and Drs. Studds (CJ) being mafiosi smokescreens in Marks & Spencer & Giorgio Armanis. -The tendering service, both local and international, is a closed racket. And the CBK's relationship to certain specific banks, is outside statutory regulations --a construction known as a short-circuit. But we, the people, are still in the phase of denial. Euphoric optimism. Waiganjo and the rest are incidences. Therefore a historical figure will emerge who will unite the underworld and the upper world, such that the era of hypocrisy draws to an end, and people talk and live the reality that is. When the farce can no longer be sustained in reality.For instance now, we talk of the legal system in Kenya. But we know, from small cases [bad phrase I admit ] whether it is our own Dada Kasuku, or Nancy Keino, or the widows of Mount Elgon, or Baragoi, the system will let them down by definition. We talk integrity clauses, but ICC indictees sit on vetting commissions of parties they own, to assess the integrity of other candidates. But officially we are okay, even our IEBC is doing a fantastic job. And Kibaki is lionised as a genial leader. So we are still in the denial phase. Now because I do not think Raila has it in him to arrest the descent, his historical role therefore could be to unite the opposites and end the hypocrisy [of upper and underworld in Kenya]. That we , the people, officially accept we are a gangster state. His political union with Maina Njenga is then the key event which marks the elevation, absorbs, accommodates a criminal organisation into the official state structure, ending a period of hypocritical dichotomy. [There was an earlier deal between Mugiki and PNU in which they would be made askaris. But Kibaki balked from putting them on the government payroll, because John Michuki refused. Raila will find the draft on the presidential table if he wins, and he too, will face Kibaki's dilemma]. And we looked from government to criminal organisation, but could not tell the difference. So we called it what it was. A gangster state. Raila the midwife.
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Post by furaha on Jan 13, 2013 16:25:20 GMT 3
Otishotish and Jakaswanga,
I thank you both for raising issues that I too feel strongly about.
Yes, Maina Njenga's inclusion in CORD deserves closes scrutiny. Memories appear to be painfully short. Not only has PEV largely been relegated to the dustbin but earlier credible reports about the wave of terror unleashed about the Mungiki also seem to have been forgotten. The same has happened to the indiscriminate crackdown on the Mungiki from around 2005 onwards in operations for which one John Michuki was responsible. Close to 2000 young men from Central are thought to have been killed by police squads, often by extremely brutal means. 500 such cases of extra-judicial kilings were documented by the KNCHR in its 2007 report "Mountain of Blood". It is a painful read.
Both the initial Mungiki crimes and the government's violent response never received serious attention from government and law makers, despite the urging by UN rapporteur Philip Alston who termed Kenya's situation one of the most serious he had ever encountered. Here we are, five years on and not a step further.
That is why I completely agree with Jakaswanga's finding on Kenya, the rogue and failed state. Thanks for that very helpful listing of critical elements and examples. We should be forced to read that every day.... And the Njenga Odinga story goes to the heart of the rot.
So I have not yet heard a good reason why Otishotish should not pursue the story of Njenga,Odinga and CORD. It is part of the bigger picture of the failed state. I am waiting for part 2. Bring it on... Furaha
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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 13, 2013 16:28:36 GMT 3
otishotishWhat is this silly ,sick obsession of trying so hard to link RAO to Maina Njenga's misdeeds? This will never work many have tried before & have failed. Cord is a national party & does not choose its supporters,they trickle from all parts of the country voluntarily. We all know who have been the financiers of mungiki so trying to confuse Kenyans that RAO is a very bad leader because mkenya solidarity party is among the small parties that joined Cord is misplaced & juvenile to say the least. You are at liberty to write a million chapters on your Cord's con or call him Cord's son for all we care ,it will never change a thing. "sick, silly obsession"? Please refer to the parts where I ask those responding with insults to at least use some imagination. Yours is not it. Try again, please.
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Post by Horth on Jan 13, 2013 16:37:54 GMT 3
Otishotish,
You’re seeing interesting attempts of "intellectual" co-incidental tribilism. Pray that Maina decides to join Jubilee / Amani and you’ll get more than enough threads to crash the Proboards servers in support of your "sick, silly obsession".
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bob
Full Member
Posts: 238
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Post by bob on Jan 13, 2013 16:47:34 GMT 3
otishotishWhat is this silly ,sick obsession of trying so hard to link RAO to Maina Njenga's misdeeds? This will never work many have tried before & have failed. Cord is a national party & does not choose its supporters,they trickle from all parts of the country voluntarily. We all know who have been the financiers of mungiki so trying to confuse Kenyans that RAO is a very bad leader because mkenya solidarity party is among the small parties that joined Cord is misplaced & juvenile to say the least. You are at liberty to write a million chapters on your Cord's con or call him Cord's son for all we care ,it will never change a thing. "sick, silly obsession"? Please refer to the parts where I ask those responding with insults to at least use some imagination. Yours is not it. Try again, please. I don't think it is worth my time & imagination. You are better of writing an article on indicted ,suspected criminals who are running for president & deputy. When you come up with rubbish that Maina Njenga is Cord's justice minster in waiting shows how low your imagination has sunk. Please!!!!!!!!!
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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 13, 2013 16:54:36 GMT 3
I don't think it is worth my time & imagination. You are better of writing an article on indicted ,suspected criminals who are running for president & deputy. When you come up with rubbish that Maina Njenga is Cord's justice minster in waiting shows how low your imagination has sunk. Please!!!!!!!!! Bob: If you wish to comment on this thread, please refer to the points raised on this thread. By the way, why are you getting so worked up? Don't get angry that we have pointed out the holes in The King's dirty, tattered underwear; instead, help him get new ones. Anyway, if you can clarify Njenga's role in CORD, it would help reduce the "rubbish".
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Post by reporter911 on Jan 13, 2013 17:03:15 GMT 3
FACTS; REVISTED ON INTERVIEW BY MAINA NJENGA WHILE IN JAIL AT THE HIEGHT OF EXTRA-JUDICIAL KILLINGS IN KENYA ORDERED BY LATE MICHUKA AND THE PLEA FROM LATE HON KARUME TO RAILA TO FACT FIND FROM GOVERNMENT WHO ORDERED THE EXTRA-JUDICIAL KILLINGS AND WHY... THAT CONTINUED FROM 2006 THROUGH 2008 Njenga said he had twice met the former Nairobi and Coast PC Maina, Catholic Priest Fr Ndikaru wa Teresia and ODM pointman Mr SK Thande. WHY WERE THEY KILLED “We believe our talks will bear fruit and I have directed all our followers to stop engaging in violence. Police should also stop killing innocent youths now. We want peace,” he said. Raila was trying to stop the Extra-judicial killings ordered by the PNU arm of government ( read: Late Michuki order to finish the Mungiki sect)
Njenga, who spoke in a secluded section of the prison while clad in the stripped prison uniform known by inmates as kunguru, said his two deputies who were killed had documents implicating police in arbitrary executions, which they wanted to hand to the Government team. this documents might help the ICC caseHe blamed police for high-level the executions, including that of his wife early this month, saying they plotted to finish the group’s top leadership. what happened to this police murder case? Executions political Njenga said he wanted the whole country to know of the start and progress of the talks between the sect and the Government. Njenga said he had stopped the burial of his wife, her driver George Njoroge and the two men who were shot dead on Monday to await the outcome of the talks. “There is no need for us to bury them and allow for more such killings,” he said. The sect leader said all the four deceased were his relatives and he was in agony. But he encouraged his followers not to fear death and to soldier on as members of the movement. He said there were no divisions in the sect, and challenged anyone with parallel leadership to come out and let the public know. He also revealed that his movement supported ODM in the last General Election and the sect feels it is now part of the Government. Njenga went ahead to urge Embakasi constituents to back an ODM candidate in the coming by-election, saying the late area MP, Mugabe Were, had been his personal friend. The Central Kenya leaders who supported Njenga demanded his release so that he could lead talks between the sect and the Government. Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7655#ixzz2HrhtDVC9otishotish has refused to deal with the facts of Maina Njenga/Mungiki/ government/ ngorogo hidden police force, and keeps trying to spew, propaganda, lies, innuendo's trying to connect Raila to the 1. Extra-judicial mungiki youth killings 2. 2007-2008 clashes blamed on Mungiki while the case at the ICC points out that Mungiki were used by certain politicians who met them at statehouse to murder & slaughter innocent Kenyans in Naivasha & Nakuru 3. otishotish ignores the facts that late Njenga Karume approached Raila to heip stop the Extra-judicial killings of Mungiki Youth ordered by the PNU arm of government led by the Late Michuki all this facts are well documented.. otishotish seems to be in support of late PNU/late Michuki order of Extra-Judicial killings of the youth, otishotish is trying to hide behind the banner of outrage ( read: politicking for Uhuru/ Kenneth & Co) ignoring the facts on the Extra-judicial killings, and why Raila was approached to try and bring about peace in 2008 by the late Njenga karume on behave of the Mungiki sect.. otishotish and his and those his is politically backing will not succeed tarnishing Raila's name because facts are facts... and he can continue spinning all the lies he wants on here. we are here to counter his lies, propagnda spins.. Miguna tried it but it did not work ;D ;D ;D
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Post by podp on Jan 13, 2013 17:07:55 GMT 3
Otishotish and Jakaswanga, I thank you both for raising issues that I too feel strongly about. Yes, Maina Njenga's inclusion in CORD deserves closes scrutiny. Memories appear to be painfully short. Not only has PEV largely been relegated to the dustbin but earlier credible reports about the wave of terror unleashed about the Mungiki also seem to have been forgotten. The same has happened to the indiscriminate crackdown on the Mungiki from around 2005 onwards in operations for which one John Michuki was responsible. Close to 2000 young men from Central are thought to have been killed by police squads, often by extremely brutal means. 500 such cases of extra-judicial kilings were documented by the KNCHR in its 2007 report " Mountain of Blood". It is a painful read. Both the initial Mungiki crimes and the government's violent response never received serious attention from government and law makers, despite the urging by UN rapporteur Philip Alston who termed Kenya's situation one of the most serious he had ever encountered. Here we are, five years on and not a step further. That is why I completely agree with Jakaswanga's finding on Kenya, the rogue and failed state. Thanks for that very helpful listing of critical elements and examples. We should be forced to read that every day.... And the Njenga Odinga story goes to the heart of the rot. So I have not yet heard a good reason why Otishotish should not pursue the story of Njenga,Odinga and CORD. It is part of the bigger picture of the failed state. I am waiting for part 2. Bring it on... Furaha the struggle for humanization, breaking the cycles of injustice, exploitation and oppression lies in the perpetuation of oppressor versus oppressed. in these roles, those who commit the injustice, the oppressors, do not only deny freedom to those they oppress, they also risk their own humanity, because oppressor consciousness "tends to transform everything surrounding it into an object of its domination" so said teacher in the last century. these roles are so ingrained in society that in the "initial struggle for liberation," the oppressed frequently strive to imitate the oppressor. they see that role as the "ideal model of humanity" to break the cycle, a revolution of ideas must take place, freedom can only occur when the oppressed "eject this image and replace it with autonomy and responsibility". but how do the oppressed reach this realization, how do they "resolve the oppressor-oppressed contradiction"? this is why otishotish's monologues need interrogation not throwing barbs at them with no new idea proposed of why the contradiction. a confessed 'reformer' dining with a leader of a killer gang aka Mungiki. or is it a case of Jesus dining with the tax collector and converting the latter to be a disciple? by confronting "reality critically, simultaneously objectifying and acting upon that reality", the oppressed can begin transformation from objects to Subjects. but this is only the first stage. why is it difficult to discuss the friendship of a leader of a killer gang and a possible future PORK? will it auger well for Kenya in future given the killer gang leader past? KNHCR report on extrajudicial killings is titled ‘Cry of Blood’. In it the Commission highlighted instances of disappearances including from police custody and deaths of mainly young men suspected of belonging to ‘Mungiki’. According to post mortem reports, over 500 young men of Kikuyu origin are alleged to have died of gun shot and other wounds, with some having been shot in the back of their head. the complete report can be found at marsgroupkenya.org/pdfs/2009/03/KNCHR_crimes-against-humanity-extra-judicial-killings-by-kenya-police-exposed.pdfthe sadder aspect of our current campaigns is its anti dialogical streak! when one reads otishotish on this thread what come to mind is Rage and Hope. teacher wrote in rage and love, without which there is no hope. it is meant as a defense of tolerance--not to be confused with connivance--and radicalness. it is meant as a criticism of sectarianism.
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Post by reporter911 on Jan 13, 2013 17:35:26 GMT 3
Some more facts for otishotish who doesn't seem to appreciate facts? instead prefers to post lies, propaganda, innuendo's and false allegations agaisnt Raila when it comes to Maina Njenga/mungiki past hstory with the PNU/ arm of government and the connections with EXTRA-JUDICIAL KILLINGS / 2007 ELECTIONS AND THE BLOOD BATH IN NAIVASHA/NAKURU BLAMED ON MUNGIKI/ MEETING AT STATEHOUSE.. e.t.cRead more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7655#ixzz2Hrn7cY6QRead more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7655#ixzz2HriZli68otishotish seems to support those behind EXTRA-JUDICIAL KILLINGS ( Read- ordered by late Michuki/ PNU arm of government where Uhuru/ Kenneth were part of) CAN otishotish post here outraged statements by Peter Kenneth whom he is supporting for presidency over the Extra-judicial killings of Mungiki youths in his own Muranga backyard from 2006-2008? yet he comes here trying to tarnish Raila name, when Raila stood up condoning the Extra-judicial killings pushing aside the tribal labeling and demanded the stop to it as did the late Karume and others from central province... bure kabisa..
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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 13, 2013 17:38:17 GMT 3
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Post by reporter911 on Jan 13, 2013 17:53:52 GMT 3
When you start posting facts instead of your dreamed up lies, propganda, allegations then maybe Kenyans will take you seriously, you shame yourself!! bure kabisa..
ask yours truly presidential Candidate Peter Kenneth from 2006-7 and 8 did he ever demand his party/PNU in government under late Michuki for the stop of Extra-judicial Killings in his own MURANGA BACKYARD? bure kabisa.. continue posting your lies, propaganda and innuendo's while trying to tarnish Raila's name... it ain't working, Miguna tried and it didn't work.. Use your time wisely to promote your presidential candidate "Kenneth" instead of spewing nonsense on here!! ivyu tu!!
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Post by reporter911 on Jan 13, 2013 17:55:13 GMT 3
What promise where the Mungiki sect given at the Statehouse meeting during and after 2007-2008 elections period? ( why is the "PEV" ) case at the ICC maybe otishotish can remind us the connecting dots.. instead of trying to spin propaganda about the Maina Njenga/Mungiki saga.. while trying to bring in Raila's name.. bure kabisa!! The youths in central province? why are the frustrated? why is poltic's involved and what are the roots of the Mungiki sect? otishotish should go back to the roots of this sect and it's connections to the central province politicians.. alah!! The group claimed, "a number of unknown people were secretly buried in pit latrines in (Nairobi's) Mathare and Korogocho slums after a contingent of the dreaded crack General Service Unit - Kenyan police paramilitary wing - mounted a crackdown to wipe out Mungiki operatives from the slum." But police spokesman Eric Kiraithe dismissed the report, telling AFP: "Police cannot comment on outrageous reports authored by dubious characters. "If the authors of the report are serious, they should give the names of the victims, places where they were killed and by whom. That way, the claims can be investigated by police and the international community now or in future." The foundation, made up of human rights lawyers also offer free legal services, offered no specific evidence in its report, called "State Repression". Police also rejected claims in which police were accused of executing the victims with a single bullet in the back of the head. Some of the bodies were recovered in bushes on the outskirts of the capital and others in mortuaries. Security forces launched a crackdown on the Mungiki sect after it was banned in March 2002 when its members were involved in deadly slum violence in the capital Nairobi that claimed dozens of lives. Once a religious group of dreadlocked youths who embraced traditional rituals, authorities say the sect has morphed into a ruthless gang blamed for criminal activities including extortion and murder. Since March, the gang has been accused of murdering at least 43 people - beheading several of their victims - mainly in Nairobi slums and central Kenya. The wave of killings peaked in June, raising fears of widespread instability in Kenya ahead of general elections due in December, but a police crackdown that killed dozens of Mungiki suspects has since curbed the violence. At the height of the crackdown, London-based Amnesty International called for an immediate probe, saying police could be guilty of a raft of human rights violations. The allegations come ahead of a general election in Kenya next month, when President Mwai Kibaki will seek a second and final term in office. Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7655#ixzz2HrqxwegrMungiki saga connections to ICC was well said by Nguyai at the ICC preliminary hearings.. ( Maybe otishotish should start with the History of Mungiki sect, it's roots and why the youths frustrations boiled up/ sect connections to the central province politicians and why people like Late Karume approached Raila to help advise the PNU arm of Government Led by Late Michuki to stop the EXTRA-JUDICIAL KILLINGS!!!!!!
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Post by reporter911 on Jan 13, 2013 18:19:56 GMT 3
I don't think it is worth my time & imagination. You are better of writing an article on indicted ,suspected criminals who are running for president & deputy. When you come up with rubbish that Maina Njenga is Cord's justice minster in waiting shows how low your imagination has sunk. Please!!!!!!!!! Bob: If you wish to comment on this thread, please refer to the points raised on this thread. By the way, why are you getting so worked up? Don't get angry that we have pointed out the holes in The King's dirty, tattered underwear; instead, help him get new ones. Anyway, if you can clarify Njenga's role in CORD, it would help reduce the "rubbish". ;D ;D anyone can see through your nonsense.. it started with your outrage about Maina Njenga joining Cord! then you decided to tarnish Raila's name "it didn't work.. your next propaganda ati Maina for justice minister when most Kenyans are aware that the New Constitution demands MP's, Governors, senators to be qualified in any position they end up in once the new government is in place, did you really go through the new Kenya constitution or you want to continue backhandedly spreading propaganda, lies about "CORD" PARTY? bure kabisa
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 13, 2013 19:11:41 GMT 3
(>>>) So I have not yet heard a good reason why Otishotish should not pursue the story of Njenga,Odinga and CORD. It is part of the bigger picture of the failed state. I am waiting for part 2. Bring it on... Furaha True, Furaha, So those cordlets comfortable with Maina Njenga in CORD... you will need a heavy dose of ear-pads to block us off, and you will need a tremendous amount of intellectual self-mutilation to pretend you do not recognise what the hullabaloo is all about! And Internally meanwhile, your dishonesty and the emptiness of your integrity will be deafening you in your self-generated moral vacuum. ---See how loud Reporter has become here! hysterical! I am actually of the opinion this al-shabaab guy otishotish formulated the problematic rather well. Perhaps too well, and there is need to dumb it down some. by confronting "reality critically, simultaneously objectifying and acting upon that reality", the oppressed can begin transformation from objects to Subjects. but this is only the first stage. why is it difficult to discuss the friendship of a leader of a killer gang and a possible future PORK? will it auger well for Kenya in future given the killer gang leader past? THE PANTHEON OF MORAL DILEMMAS: lets go for them grey hairs! PODP! Every country has them. Moral hubri, dilemmas that seat uneasy with the professed ideals of that land as defined by herself. Pricks on the conscience that ran jolt as electrical shocks through the constitution, and the body politic of a land. Issues that inculcate nightmares to the conscious. Tests on the moral aptitude of a culture! Obama has been confronted with his KILL-LIST, and the impunity of his extra-judicial drones regime, killing Muslim children and of late, having killed [executed] AMERICAN citizens, be they hate-figures aligned to Al-Qaida in the Arabian peninsular. (Yemeni). From Harvard to Yale, to Duke to Princeton, the leading lights of the land have expressed qualms ---philosophical, legal, moral, politicological,--- at the murder thirst of a man who criticised Bush for Guantanamo. It leads to an existential question: Is it the component moral degeneration, as an aspect of the political decline of the USA, hinted at by her military and economic woes? Or is it a temporary misfire, an passing aberration? Even Obama himself recognised the pathology ---or at least smart fella David Axelrod did, and ordered the president not to talk morality anymore. (And see how this informs the choice of his new cabinet line-up!) In China, moral criticism of the rot of the communist party is one of the most feared enemies. The blind man exported to USA for those who remember him, and the scapegoat Bo Xi Lai fed to the dogs to buy time. Not to mention the morbid fear of the Dalai Llama of Tibet, who commands no 'army'! In Israel, the thorn in the big toe that makes their powerful state limp, is the moral criticism of some of her most distinguished thinkers and social critics. The [decapitation] policy of assassinating top Palestinian leaders --Rantissi, Arafat; or the blind Sheikh who founded Hamas, etc etc. Is this not state terrorism that leads the Palestinians to hit back by any means possible, therefore suicide bombers against helicopter launched missiles? they ask for instance. And if Israel arrogates herself the power to destroy Iran on account of her nuclears, why wouldn't Iran arrogate herself the power to destroy Israel in turn? An eye for an eye not good? Moral dilemmas posed by political choices, as disturbing those peoples own psyche. Answers do not come easy, possibly do not exist. So denunciations abound! traitor, terrorist apologist! But the question remains on the table, haunting ones conscience like a shadow that can not be banished. Otishotish, I was planning to review specific sections of your essay, but after you invited your girlfriend Reporter to do make up on the page I am a bit lost. ---Please do your domestics with your grundig at the other thread where also my juvenile brother Einstein may once in a while weigh in.
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Post by reporter911 on Jan 13, 2013 19:41:37 GMT 3
(>>>) So I have not yet heard a good reason why Otishotish should not pursue the story of Njenga,Odinga and CORD. It is part of the bigger picture of the failed state. I am waiting for part 2. Bring it on... Furaha True, Furaha, So those cordlets comfortable with Maina Njenga in CORD... you will need a heavy dose of ear-pads to block us off, and you will need a tremendous amount of intellectual self-mutilation to pretend you do not recognise what the hullabaloo is all about! And Internally meanwhile, your dishonesty and the emptiness of your integrity will be deafening you in your self-generated moral vacuum. ---See how loud Reporter has become here! hysterical! I am actually of the opinion this al-shabaab guy otishotish formulated the problematic rather well. Perhaps too well, and there is need to dumb it down some. by confronting "reality critically, simultaneously objectifying and acting upon that reality", the oppressed can begin transformation from objects to Subjects. but this is only the first stage. why is it difficult to discuss the friendship of a leader of a killer gang and a possible future PORK? will it auger well for Kenya in future given the killer gang leader past? THE PANTHEON OF MORAL DILEMMAS: lets go for them grey hairs! PODP! Every country has them. Moral hubri, dilemmas that seat uneasy with the professed ideals of that land as defined by herself. Pricks on the conscience that ran jolt as electrical shocks through the constitution, and the body politic of a land. Issues that inculcate nightmares to the conscious. Tests on the moral aptitude of a culture! Obama has been confronted with his KILL-LIST, and the impunity of his extra-judicial drones regime, killing Muslim children and of late, having killed [executed] AMERICAN citizens, be they hate-figures aligned to Al-Qaida in the Arabian peninsular. (Yemeni). From Harvard to Yale, to Duke to Princeton, the leading lights of the land have expressed qualms ---philosophical, legal, moral, politicological,--- at the murder thirst of a man who criticised Bush for Guantanamo. It leads to an existential question: Is it the component moral degeneration, as an aspect of the political decline of the USA, hinted at by her military and economic woes? Or is it a temporary misfire, an passing aberration? Even Obama himself recognised the pathology ---or at least smart fella David Axelrod did, and ordered the president not to talk morality anymore. (And see how this informs the choice of his new cabinet line-up!) In China, moral criticism of the rot of the communist party is one of the most feared enemies. The blind man exported to USA for those who remember him, and the scapegoat Bo Xi Lai fed to the dogs to buy time. Not to mention the morbid fear of the Dalai Llama of Tibet, who commands no 'army'! In Israel, the thorn in the big toe that makes their powerful state limp, is the moral criticism of some of her most distinguished thinkers and social critics. The [decapitation] policy of assassinating top Palestinian leaders --Rantissi, Arafat; or the blind Sheikh who founded Hamas, etc etc. Is this not state terrorism that leads the Palestinians to hit back by any means possible, therefore suicide bombers against helicopter launched missiles? they ask for instance. And if Israel arrogates herself the power to destroy Iran on account of her nuclears, why wouldn't Iran arrogate herself the power to destroy Israel in turn? An eye for an eye not good? Moral dilemmas posed by political choices, as disturbing those peoples own psyche. Answers do not come easy, possibly do not exist. So denunciations abound! traitor, terrorist apologist! But the question remains on the table, haunting ones conscience like a shadow that can not be banished. Otishotish, I was planning to review specific sections of your essay, but after you invited your girlfriend Reporter to do make up on the page I am a bit lost. ---Please do your domestics with your grundig at the other thread where also my juvenile brother Einstein may once in a while weigh in. jakwaswanga.. If you can post here 1. the History of Mungiki sect! 2. it connection with central province politicians 3. why PNU/ Michuki ordered for Extra-judicial Killings of Mungiki sect 4. Reported Mungiki Meetings at statehouse during, before and after 2007-2008 elections period 5. Meeting of government officials from both coalition parties in government with Maina Njenga while he was in Prison 6. Late Njenga Karume's request to Raila to help talks with the PNU arm of government to stop the Extra-Judicial Killings 7. Nguyai's statements at the ICC hearing.. his connections wth Mungiki during the 2007-2007 clashes.. jakaswanga if you can post here a report connecting all the dots above maybe Kenyans will listen to what you have to say.. meanwhile trying to support and back yours truly your mouthpiece Otishotish, who seems to be very frustrated on how to tarnish Raila's name and just like Mugina he comes out sounding lame, unhinged, sounding like a mad persons rants ;D you both won't succeed, go get some advise from Miguna..
Meanwhile waiting to hear your report on Mingiki sect, and the truth behind what the late Njenga karume accused the PNU arm of government of " using the Mungiiki youth to do their dirty work" and then ordering Extra-judicial killings.. my advise is to ask your central province friends Kamalet, Mwalimukuu, jobless corner e.t.c for facts.. you notice they are quiet when it comes to Maina Njenga and the Mungiki sect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Post by podp on Jan 13, 2013 20:12:07 GMT 3
(>>>) So I have not yet heard a good reason why Otishotish should not pursue the story of Njenga,Odinga and CORD. It is part of the bigger picture of the failed state. I am waiting for part 2. Bring it on... Furaha True, Furaha, So those cordlets comfortable with Maina Njenga in CORD... you will need a heavy dose of ear-pads to block us off, and you will need a tremendous amount of intellectual self-mutilation to pretend you do not recognise what the hullabaloo is all about! And Internally meanwhile, your dishonesty and the emptiness of your integrity will be deafening you in your self-generated moral vacuum. ---See how loud Reporter has become here! hysterical! I am actually of the opinion this al-shabaab guy otishotish formulated the problematic rather well. Perhaps too well, and there is need to dumb it down some. by confronting "reality critically, simultaneously objectifying and acting upon that reality", the oppressed can begin transformation from objects to Subjects. but this is only the first stage. why is it difficult to discuss the friendship of a leader of a killer gang and a possible future PORK? will it auger well for Kenya in future given the killer gang leader past? THE PANTHEON OF MORAL DILEMMAS: lets go for them grey hairs! PODP! Every country has them. Moral hubri, dilemmas that seat uneasy with the professed ideals of that land as defined by herself. Pricks on the conscience that ran jolt as electrical shocks through the constitution, and the body politic of a land. Issues that inculcate nightmares to the conscious. Tests on the moral aptitude of a culture! Obama has been confronted with his KILL-LIST, and the impunity of his extra-judicial drones regime, killing Muslim children and of late, having killed [executed] AMERICAN citizens, be they hate-figures aligned to Al-Qaida in the Arabian peninsular. (Yemeni). From Harvard to Yale, to Duke to Princeton, the leading lights of the land have expressed qualms ---philosophical, legal, moral, politicological,--- at the murder thirst of a man who criticised Bush for Guantanamo. It leads to an existential question: Is it the component moral degeneration, as an aspect of the political decline of the USA, hinted at by her military and economic woes? Or is it a temporary misfire, an passing aberration? Even Obama himself recognised the pathology ---or at least smart fella David Axelrod did, and ordered the president not to talk morality anymore. (And see how this informs the choice of his new cabinet line-up!) In China, moral criticism of the rot of the communist party is one of the most feared enemies. The blind man exported to USA for those who remember him, and the scapegoat Bo Xi Lai fed to the dogs to buy time. Not to mention the morbid fear of the Dalai Llama of Tibet, who commands no 'army'! In Israel, the thorn in the big toe that makes their powerful state limp, is the moral criticism of some of her most distinguished thinkers and social critics. The [decapitation] policy of assassinating top Palestinian leaders --Rantissi, Arafat; or the blind Sheikh who founded Hamas, etc etc. Is this not state terrorism that leads the Palestinians to hit back by any means possible, therefore suicide bombers against helicopter launched missiles? they ask for instance. And if Israel arrogates herself the power to destroy Iran on account of her nuclears, why wouldn't Iran arrogate herself the power to destroy Israel in turn? An eye for an eye not good? Moral dilemmas posed by political choices, as disturbing those peoples own psyche. Answers do not come easy, possibly do not exist. So denunciations abound! traitor, terrorist apologist! But the question remains on the table, haunting ones conscience like a shadow that can not be banished.
Otishotish, I was planning to review specific sections of your essay, but after you invited your girlfriend Reporter to do make up on the page I am a bit lost. ---Please do your domestics with your grundig at the other thread where also my juvenile brother Einstein may once in a while weigh in. answers exist always that is why human beings have a choice. once you make a choice your next move is carry it out. it is the will that most of us lack. most Kenyans agree and would affirm that there has been a catastrophic failure of leadership on our continent. the slate of post-colonial African leaders has been a disgusting assortment of military coconut-heads (remember Idi Amin Dada), Swiss bank socialists, crocodile liberators (could Jomo Kenyatta fit here and moving forward his crimes against humanity indicted son?), quack revolutionaries (and here is where RAO might fit) and briefcase bandits (Mo1 fits here and tell me if Mdvd would not follow the nyayos). "Ask African leaders to develop their economies and they will develop their pockets. Ask them to seek foreign investment and they will seek a foreign country to invest their loot. Ask them to establish democracy and they empanel a fawning coterie of sycophants to write electoral rules, toss opposition leaders into jail and hold coconut elections to return themselves to power. Ask them to combat corruption and they will set up an anti-corruption commission with no teeth. And when the anti-corruption tsar sniffs too close to the fat cats, they shut down the commission. Ask them to shrink their bloated bureaucracies and cut government spending and they will set up a “Ministry of Less Government Spending”." thebrowser.com/interviews/george-ayittey-on-africa-through-african-eyes?page=4solutions to all the above Asks exist
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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 13, 2013 20:40:30 GMT 3
Excellent article. Many thanks for bring it (and the website as a whole) to our attention.
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Post by podp on Jan 13, 2013 21:12:04 GMT 3
True, Furaha, So those cordlets comfortable with Maina Njenga in CORD... you will need a heavy dose of ear-pads to block us off, and you will need a tremendous amount of intellectual self-mutilation to pretend you do not recognise what the hullabaloo is all about! And Internally meanwhile, your dishonesty and the emptiness of your integrity will be deafening you in your self-generated moral vacuum. ---See how loud Reporter has become here! hysterical! I am actually of the opinion this al-shabaab guy otishotish formulated the problematic rather well. Perhaps too well, and there is need to dumb it down some. THE PANTHEON OF MORAL DILEMMAS: lets go for them grey hairs! PODP! Every country has them. Moral hubri, dilemmas that seat uneasy with the professed ideals of that land as defined by herself. Pricks on the conscience that ran jolt as electrical shocks through the constitution, and the body politic of a land. Issues that inculcate nightmares to the conscious. Tests on the moral aptitude of a culture! Obama has been confronted with his KILL-LIST, and the impunity of his extra-judicial drones regime, killing Muslim children and of late, having killed [executed] AMERICAN citizens, be they hate-figures aligned to Al-Qaida in the Arabian peninsular. (Yemeni). From Harvard to Yale, to Duke to Princeton, the leading lights of the land have expressed qualms ---philosophical, legal, moral, politicological,--- at the murder thirst of a man who criticised Bush for Guantanamo. It leads to an existential question: Is it the component moral degeneration, as an aspect of the political decline of the USA, hinted at by her military and economic woes? Or is it a temporary misfire, an passing aberration? Even Obama himself recognised the pathology ---or at least smart fella David Axelrod did, and ordered the president not to talk morality anymore. (And see how this informs the choice of his new cabinet line-up!) In China, moral criticism of the rot of the communist party is one of the most feared enemies. The blind man exported to USA for those who remember him, and the scapegoat Bo Xi Lai fed to the dogs to buy time. Not to mention the morbid fear of the Dalai Llama of Tibet, who commands no 'army'! In Israel, the thorn in the big toe that makes their powerful state limp, is the moral criticism of some of her most distinguished thinkers and social critics. The [decapitation] policy of assassinating top Palestinian leaders --Rantissi, Arafat; or the blind Sheikh who founded Hamas, etc etc. Is this not state terrorism that leads the Palestinians to hit back by any means possible, therefore suicide bombers against helicopter launched missiles? they ask for instance. And if Israel arrogates herself the power to destroy Iran on account of her nuclears, why wouldn't Iran arrogate herself the power to destroy Israel in turn? An eye for an eye not good? Moral dilemmas posed by political choices, as disturbing those peoples own psyche. Answers do not come easy, possibly do not exist. So denunciations abound! traitor, terrorist apologist! But the question remains on the table, haunting ones conscience like a shadow that can not be banished. Otishotish, I was planning to review specific sections of your essay, but after you invited your girlfriend Reporter to do make up on the page I am a bit lost. ---Please do your domestics with your grundig at the other thread where also my juvenile brother Einstein may once in a while weigh in. jakwaswanga.. If you can post here 1. the History of Mungiki sect! 2. it connection with central province politicians 3. why PNU/ Michuki ordered for Extra-judicial Killings of Mungiki sect 4. Reported Mungiki Meetings at statehouse during, before and after 2007-2008 elections period 5. Meeting of government officials from both coalition parties in government with Maina Njenga while he was in Prison 6. Late Njenga Karume's request to Raila to help talks with the PNU arm of government to stop the Extra-Judicial Killings 7. Nguyai's statements at the ICC hearing.. his connections wth Mungiki during the 2007-2007 clashes.. jakaswanga if you can post here a report connecting all the dots above maybe Kenyans will listen to what you have to say.. meanwhile trying to support and back yours truly your mouthpiece Otishotish, who seems to be very frustrated on how to tarnish Raila's name and just like Mugina he comes out sounding lame, unhinged, sounding like a mad persons rants ;D you both won't succeed, go get some advise from Miguna..
Meanwhile waiting to hear your report on Mingiki sect, and the truth behind what the late Njenga karume accused the PNU arm of government of " using the Mungiiki youth to do their dirty work" and then ordering Extra-judicial killings.. my advise is to ask your central province friends Kamalet, Mwalimukuu, jobless corner e.t.c for facts.. you notice they are quiet when it comes to Maina Njenga and the Mungiki sect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!\ 1st red highlight. let us suppose that Maina Njenga ordered the killing of his late wife, Virginia. such a person who could have the mother of his children killed!!!! what type of humanity will we expect as he cuddles to RAO who may become PORK? books.google.co.ke/books?id=oMkYzPOjzMUC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=Maina+Njenga+ordered+the+killing+of+his+wife&source=bl&ots=UnhPv9YAcr&sig=65MhAXFACRAMWfn_GSqh1THmiY4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zvXyUKfSJ4K7hAf0hoDoAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CHwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Maina%20Njenga%20ordered%20the%20killing%20of%20his%20wife&f=false2nd red highlight smart attempt at diversion from the person of Maina Njenga cohabiting with RAO to what Mungiki and CORD stand for. the latter relationship will continue unfolding and it depends on what brought about the former. and that i.e. Maina Njenga and RAO in bed is what is haunting many on either side but those who have not taken the forbidden fruit see not their nakedness
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Post by reporter911 on Jan 13, 2013 23:11:32 GMT 3
jakwaswanga.. If you can post here 1. the History of Mungiki sect! 2. it connection with central province politicians 3. why PNU/ Michuki ordered for Extra-judicial Killings of Mungiki sect 4. Reported Mungiki Meetings at statehouse during, before and after 2007-2008 elections period 5. Meeting of government officials from both coalition parties in government with Maina Njenga while he was in Prison 6. Late Njenga Karume's request to Raila to help talks with the PNU arm of government to stop the Extra-Judicial Killings 7. Nguyai's statements at the ICC hearing.. his connections wth Mungiki during the 2007-2007 clashes.. jakaswanga if you can post here a report connecting all the dots above maybe Kenyans will listen to what you have to say.. meanwhile trying to support and back yours truly your mouthpiece Otishotish, who seems to be very frustrated on how to tarnish Raila's name and just like Mugina he comes out sounding lame, unhinged, sounding like a mad persons rants ;D you both won't succeed, go get some advise from Miguna..
Meanwhile waiting to hear your report on Mingiki sect, and the truth behind what the late Njenga karume accused the PNU arm of government of " using the Mungiiki youth to do their dirty work" and then ordering Extra-judicial killings.. my advise is to ask your central province friends Kamalet, Mwalimukuu, jobless corner e.t.c for facts.. you notice they are quiet when it comes to Maina Njenga and the Mungiki sect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! \ 1st red highlight. let us suppose that Maina Njenga ordered the killing of his late wife, Virginia. such a person who could have the mother of his children killed!!!! what type of humanity will we expect as he cuddles to RAO who may become PORK? books.google.co.ke/books?id=oMkYzPOjzMUC&pg=PA178&lpg=PA178&dq=Maina+Njenga+ordered+the+killing+of+his+wife&source=bl&ots=UnhPv9YAcr&sig=65MhAXFACRAMWfn_GSqh1THmiY4&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zvXyUKfSJ4K7hAf0hoDoAQ&sqi=2&ved=0CHwQ6AEwCQ#v=onepage&q=Maina%20Njenga%20ordered%20the%20killing%20of%20his%20wife&f=false2nd red highlight smart attempt at diversion from the person of Maina Njenga cohabiting with RAO to what Mungiki and CORD stand for. the latter relationship will continue unfolding and it depends on what brought about the former. and that i.e. Maina Njenga and RAO in bed is what is haunting many on either side but those who have not taken the forbidden fruit see not their nakedness Let deal with some facts !, Maina Njenga did not order the killing of his wife? ( The latests details on that issue come from a police whistle-blower that is was the work of the Police after Late Michuki's order of Extra-judicial Killings) 2. Njenga Karume approached Raila in 2008 when Kenya was still burning to assisit into talking with Michuki & Co to stop the senseless Killings of the Mungiki youth.. ( seems to me Jobs Ngorogoro Police unit has been very busy since 2006 in Kenya) 3. If indeed Mingiki sect are Murderers as it has been reported? don't they deserve their day in the courts of Law? I haven't heard any one from central province on here or anywhere for that matter except for the late Karume and a few church elders who come out in public demanding Michuki to stop the Extra-judicial Killings... That is what Raila stated in Public too in 2008, he asked the then PNU/Michuki & co controlled government to stop the Extra-judicial killings and asked the government to dailogue with the youth!! but did the government listen? NOPE.. they continued with their slaughter of Mungiki youths as stated in the Kenya human rights report .. headed by Kiai.. is it then a shock that the same youth prefer voting for Raila who come out in their defense when they were busy being slaughtered by their own folks from central who controlled the security apparatus in government in 2006-7-8... One can try so had tarnishing Raila's name but the facts are facts they can't change just some clueless individuals filled with tribal hate don't want Raila to be the fourth president of Kenya.. ;D ;D Tough luck for them, he is heading right into the presidency seat.. wapende na wasipende.. Lets get some background incase some have forgotten on Mungiki saga between 2006-2007-2008 before Njenga Karume asked Raila assistance for the government to stop Extra-judicial Killing ordered by the late Michuki & Co allafrica.com/stories/200804111177.htmlwww.the-star.co.ke/news/article-15811/how-top-mungiki-man-was-eliminatedwww.the-star.co.ke/news/article-16249/njenga-muite-warn-extrajudicial-killingssome people just try posting propaganda, filth and lies, how about starting with History of Mungiki sect, why the youths are used by politicians from central province to do their dirty work, why PNU government security branch headed by Michuki ordered the Extra-judicial killings of Mungiki youth! why where they meeting at statehouse as reported before, during and after 2007-2008 elections/ their involvement in the "PEV" e.t.c... just spewing nonsense or trying to tarnish Raila's name won't work!! and if the Mungiki youth want to cast their vote for " CORD" or any other party who the hell gives any kenyan a right to stop them? and while you some of you keep labeling all munigki sect murderers? how about the late Michuki & Co? are they murderers too or you dare give them sainthood!! how about those who kept quiet like peter Kenneth when youths were being slaughtered and Killed from his own Muranga backyard? where they hell was he to stand up fto Michuki& co? when Njenga Karume was standing up strong, advising and demanding dialogue between the sect and government propaganda and nonsense won't work in Kenya today!!... bure kabisa !
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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 14, 2013 4:32:57 GMT 3
I believe that this is the thread that Cordells and Cordelletes are looking for. Go to the top, and read the opener; in a few days I shall give you Part 2.
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Post by reporter911 on Jan 14, 2013 4:45:31 GMT 3
I believe that this is the thread that Cordells and Cordelletes are looking for. Go to the top, and read the opener; in a few days I shall give you Part 2. On standby for the part two propaganda, and next try promoting your poor presidential candidate Peter Kenneth, he is sure freezing in the cold.. But we cord supporters are here to debunk your lies, propaganda, innuendo's very exciting days coming up forward Match to CORD outright win in round one...election polls... Just a reminder incase you missed the latest Polls... I guess we will see some rigged ones soon from Jubilee after the outcry:)
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Post by OtishOtish on Jan 14, 2013 18:08:10 GMT 3
Some pieces from the Final Updated Document Containing Charges.See: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7778From on or about 27 January to 28 January 2008, FRANCIS KIRIMI MUTHAURA and UHURU MUIGAI KENYATTA committed, jointly with each other and through members of the Mungiki group and other pro-PNU youth, [crimes against humanity of ... ] Democratic Movement political party in or around Naivasha town (Naivasha District, Rift Valley Province), Republic of Kenya
20. In carrying out the attacks, the Mungiki and pro-PNU youth killed approximately 150 people, including at least 82 perceived ODM supporters. The attacks also resulted in the rape, forcible displacement, forcible circumcision and penile amputation, looting and destruction of the properties of perceived ODM supporters. The Mungiki and pro-PNU youth targeted civilians in a number of ways, including by going from door to door in search of perceived ODM supporters, and setting up roadblocks for intercepting vehicles and identifying perceived ODM supporters.
The contributions of MUTHAURA and KENYATTA to the implementation of the common plan included (1) adopting the plan; (2) establishing links with Maina Njenga and the Mungiki for the purpose of securing Mungiki support and services for the PNU coalition; (3) exercising their authority over the Mungiki obtained by virtue of their agreement with Maina Njenga and the Mungiki to support the PNU coalition; (4) mobilizing and authorizing the Mungiki and pro-PNU youth to implement the common plan, in particular by directing them to carry out the attacks in Nakuru and Naivasha, thus activating the mechanisms leading to the commission of the crimes; and (5) soliciting the support and contribution of local politicians and businessmen.
30. ... Nakuru also recorded 29 cases of rape, including gang rape, perpetrated on both male and female victims, as well as six cases of male penile amputation and traumatic circumcision.
31. ... In Kabati Estate within the town, 19 women and children were burnt to death in a house in which they had sought refuge during the attacks.
33. The Principal Perpetrators, together with Mungiki leaders, including Maina Njenga, and other prominent PNU supporters, agreed to pursue an organizational policy to keep the PNU in power through every means necessary.
56. ... forcibly circumcising Luo men using pangas and broken bottles. Some of those who resisted were beheaded.
60. ... In Nakuru, a number of women were gang raped – often in the presence of their husbands – and/or maimed and killed. Others were made to watch as the attackers killed their husbands and children.
66. a perceived ODM supporter was ambushed by a group of pro-PNU youth who cut off his testicles and placed them in his hands before cutting off his mmm and putting it in his mouth.202 The next day, the victim’s headless body was found lying on the road. The attackers had mutilated his body in front of his five-year old son.
52. In preparation for the Naivasha attack, [REDACTED] provided Administration Police uniforms to the Mungiki, and [REDACTED] delivered a significant amount of money in cash to Maina Njenga, the Mungiki leader.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jan 14, 2013 21:20:43 GMT 3
[ jakwaswanga.. If you can post here 1. the History of Mungiki sect! 2. it connection with central province politicians 3. why PNU/ Michuki ordered for Extra-judicial Killings of Mungiki sect 4. Reported Mungiki Meetings at statehouse during, before and after 2007-2008 elections period 5. Meeting of government officials from both coalition parties in government with Maina Njenga while he was in Prison 6. Late Njenga Karume's request to Raila to help talks with the PNU arm of government to stop the Extra-Judicial Killings 7. Nguyai's statements at the ICC hearing.. his connections wth Mungiki during the 2007-2007 clashes.. Otishotish wrote.Reporter Milady, I can, if I deemed it relevant on this thread, give a good account of myself tackling all your enlisted numbers --1-7! and indeed I suggest one of these days we go at it together on a separate thread, toe to toe, head to to head, 1 to 7; and get done with this Mungiki demons! But here, on this thread, by this man whom you disparage and compare to Miguna, the question WHAT MAINA NJENGA'S PRESENCE IN CORD SAYS ABOUT RAILA ODINGA, IS THE CRUX OF THE THREAD! We have to try to be orderly in these things, intellectual hygiene you know. But I hasten to add: Jukwaa would not be Jukwaa without you milady. And like Abdulmote once penned but in much more mature and sedate terminology, you are a wonder of the blogosphere, and I hope at salsa [dance] your passion is equally heavenly! But on this thread, Ai Yawa, tera mos mos nyathi mama! [uta niendesha taratibu mwana mama] [[ jakaswanga if you can post here a report connecting all the dots above maybe Kenyans will listen to what you have to say.. meanwhile trying to support and back yours truly your mouthpiece Otishotish, who seems to be very frustrated on how to tarnish Raila's name and just like Mugina he comes out sounding lame, unhinged, sounding like a mad persons rants ;D you both won't succeed, go get some advise from Miguna..
Meanwhile waiting to hear your report on Mingiki sect, and the truth behind what the late Njenga karume accused the PNU arm of government of " using the Mungiiki youth to do their dirty work" and then ordering Extra-judicial killings.. my advise is to ask your central province friends Kamalet, Mwalimukuu, jobless corner e.t.c for facts.. you notice they are quiet when it comes to Maina Njenga and the Mungiki sect!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!You do yourself a disservice with this rant. Re-read otishotish's essay. It is careful, it is thought out, it is soberly reasoned, it is well paced and prosed. Ocassionaly even hesitant as thoughts are weighed. And it is a matter of national importance. it goes to the core of power.Did you read it really?
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