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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 24, 2011 0:51:44 GMT 3
Many questions have been asked of how Raila and his family acquired the molasses plant. According to Ndung'u report, the acquisition of the land was through dubious means and that poor and unsuspecting members of the Luo community lost their money in the land deal. But due to the PM's political correctness, power and influence he has blocked further investigations and subsequent return of the land to the government. Raila was recently implicated in a maize scam where he and his family were alleged to have earned millions over illegal importation of contaminated maize and sold it to poor hungry Kenyans. It now emerges that the PM has also grabbed another prime land at the coast (Diani). He did not only displace some squarter from the land, but he also defrauded some investor of his money.For a man who pretends to fight corruption in government and even seeks the country's leadership on a platform of zero tolerance to corruption, is it ironical that his name keeps on featuring in grand scams in the country? www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000037762&cid=4&ttl=Raila in the dock over land tussle |
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Post by KOLONEL BRISK on Jun 24, 2011 1:02:02 GMT 3
Many questions have been asked of how Raila and his family acquired the molasses plant. According to Ndung'u report, the acquisition of the land was through dubious means and that poor and unsuspecting members of the Luo community lost their money in the land deal. But due to the PM's political correctness, power and influence he has blocked further investigations and subsequent return of the land to the government. Raila was recently implicated in a maize scam where he and his family were alleged to have earned millions over illegal importation of contaminated maize and sold it to poor hungry Kenyans. It now emerges that the PM has also grabbed another prime land at the coast (Diani). For a man who pretends to fight corruption in government and even seeks the country's leadership on a platform of zero tolerance to corruption, is it ironical that his name keeps on featuring in grand scams in the country? www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000037762&cid=4&ttl=Raila in the dock over land tussle My grade 6 Son just read the article as a comprehension and gave me a reasonable translation closer to what the article reflects. How some adults fail to understand the least difficult essay written in plain English grammar i just do not get. How low can we get? WOW Lord have Mercy |
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Post by tnk on Jun 24, 2011 1:44:59 GMT 3
Many questions have been asked of how Raila and his family acquired the molasses plant. According to Ndung'u report, the acquisition of the land was through dubious means and that poor and unsuspecting members of the Luo community lost their money in the land deal. But due to the PM's political correctness, power and influence he has blocked further investigations and subsequent return of the land to the government. Raila was recently implicated in a maize scam where he and his family were alleged to have earned millions over illegal importation of contaminated maize and sold it to poor hungry Kenyans. It now emerges that the PM has also grabbed another prime land at the coast (Diani). He did not only displace some squarter from the land, but he also defrauded some investor of his money.For a man who pretends to fight corruption in government and even seeks the country's leadership on a platform of zero tolerance to corruption, is it ironical that his name keeps on featuring in grand scams in the country? www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000037762&cid=4&ttl=Raila in the dock over land tussle phew!! am so relieved ;D ;D your brief bout of sanity in two previous posts had me worried  |
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Post by gachquota on Jun 24, 2011 2:40:07 GMT 3
Looks like corruption on Railas part .....All politicians are rotten.
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Post by abdulmote on Jun 24, 2011 9:54:09 GMT 3
‘Mwalimumkuu’,
Your thread smacks of deliberate misinformation and a good degree of ignorance. It is misplaced, malicious, unwarranted and should be deleted immediately if only for its potentially libellous content.
You have not support your allegations with relevant facts or links to your sources of information. It would certainly be helpful if you could let us know where you found the information where “Raila was recently implicated in a maize scam where he and his family were alleged to have earned millions over illegal importation of contaminated maize and sold it to poor hungry Kenyansâ€.
These are very serious allegations on the person of the Prime Minister of the republic of Kenya and irrespective of how you may feel about him; you must be careful where you state such serious accusations publicly to others and certainly by using and through the pages of Jukwaa.
Please do not assume that simply because you are using your anonymous cyber handle, that you cannot be traced and held to account for your misdeeds. You may also end up implicating innocent others in here with your reckless and unsubstantiated remarks. I hope you do take such a pointer with sufficient seriousness it deserves.
Point number two: Please get your facts right; Malindi is not in Diani! That was like saying Sultan Hamud is in Limuru!
Point number three: the very poor report from the Standard did not suggest that Raila did in fact grab the piece of land in question. However, it may appear that Raila had bought the subject land from a corrupt and thieving ex- mayor of Malindi, who was subsequently convicted of the said land fraud after he fraudulently resold it to another buyer! Why the ex-mayor was not jailed for such a crime, I do not know.
Subsequently the question that may follow is whether the thieving ex-mayor had the original title of the land or whether he had also defrauded the original title holder (it may Chakacha from what I could gather) before selling the same to Hon Raila as may seem to be the case, deducible from the media reports. That does not even remotely suggest that Raila had “grabbed the land†as you speculated in here!
Lastly, I like many in here do appreciate the enormous effort from various Jukwaa members who try so hard to make this board informative, credible, of good standard and where many can visit and enjoy the debates or discussions taking place herein and I say thank you to them.
On the other hand, it is posts such as you have raised under this topic which go against such good and noble effort and tends to lower the standard of this board so many can proudly call their second home! Polish up your act ‘Mwalimumkuu’ before others do it for you!
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Post by phil on Jun 24, 2011 10:53:41 GMT 3
‘Mwalimumkuu’, Your thread smacks of deliberate misinformation and a good degree of ignorance. It is misplaced, malicious, unwarranted and should be deleted immediately if only for its potentially libellous content. You have not support your allegations with relevant facts or links to your sources of information. It would certainly be helpful if you could let us know where you found the information where “Raila was recently implicated in a maize scam where he and his family were alleged to have earned millions over illegal importation of contaminated maize and sold it to poor hungry Kenyansâ€. These are very serious allegations on the person of the Prime Minister of the republic of Kenya and irrespective of how you may feel about him; you must be careful where you state such serious accusations publicly to others and certainly by using and through the pages of Jukwaa. Please do not assume that simply because you are using your anonymous cyber handle, that you cannot be traced and held to account for your misdeeds. You may also end up implicating innocent others in here with your reckless and unsubstantiated remarks. I hope you do take such a pointer with sufficient seriousness it deserves. Point number two: Please get your facts right; Malindi is not in Diani! That was like saying Sultan Hamud is in Limuru! Point number three: the very poor report from the Standard did not suggest that Raila did in fact grab the piece of land in question. However, it may appear that Raila had bought the subject land from a corrupt and thieving ex- mayor of Malindi, who was subsequently convicted of the said land fraud after he fraudulently resold it to another buyer! Why the ex-mayor was not jailed for such a crime, I do not know. Subsequently the question that may follow is whether the thieving ex-mayor had the original title of the land or whether he had also defrauded the original title holder (it may Chakacha from what I could gather) before selling the same to Hon Raila as may seem to be the case, deducible from the media reports. That does not even remotely suggest that Raila had “grabbed the land†as you speculated in here! Lastly, I like many in here do appreciate the enormous effort from various Jukwaa members who try so hard to make this board informative, credible, of good standard and where many can visit and enjoy the debates or discussions taking place herein and I say thank you to them. On the other hand, it is posts such as you have raised under this topic which go against such good and noble effort and tends to lower the standard of this board so many can proudly call their second home! Polish up your act ‘Mwalimumkuu’ before others do it for you! Thank you Abdul. Do not however expect any thing intelligent in terms of response. This mwalimu fella has earned himself a reputation and is notorious for making highly libelous and unsubstantiated remarks. According to mwalimu, everything must be interrogated through narrow prisms of ODM/PNU supremacy contests. You may have followed the Ngilu Water scam thread where he declared Ngilu guilty even before investigations were complete, and his utopian dream eventually derailed the thread which he turned into a dangerous obsession! |
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Post by bkichwa on Jun 24, 2011 11:25:48 GMT 3
Abdulmote, Your comments above are well taken. However, if Mwalimumkuu is to be accused of making unsubstantiated assertions that may be deemed "misplaced, malicious, unwarranted and potentially libelous", it is only because this is a common trend in Jukwaa. Case in point: On the FPE scam recently debated here on Jukwaa, Job made an assertion about the Kenyattas having "grabbed" Matiba's Hillcrest Consortium of Schools. I found this assertion quite strange because my understanding is that Barclays Bank whom Matiba owes about 600 million shillings, is said to have custody of these schools as security for Matiba's debt. I therefore asked Job to explain how the Kenyattas grabbed property that is probably in custody of a major bank like Barclays. He never responded, or "substantiated" his assertion as such if you will. Moreover, no other Jukwaaist commented on this point either. If Mwalimumkuu is going to be admonished for unsubstantiated assertions that are deemed to be of a malicious and potentially libelous nature, then it is only fair that this measure be meted out across the whole of Jukwaa membership...for it is not only Mwalimumkuu who is guilty of the kind of sins you state. Here is an excerpt of the FPE discussion (+ link) I have mentioned above: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3635&page=2Jun 16, 2011, 11:31pm, job wrote:
The Kenyatta's are investing heavy in private schools, private academies, and even private institutions of higher learning anticipating future windfalls. Right now, the Kenyatta family has just grabbed from the Matiba family, the entire consortium of Hillcrest International Schools, over a Sh 600 million loan that the Matibas couldn't pay back to Barclays Bank.
By the way, the Hillcrest grab by the Kenyatta's (over the Matiba family woes) is yet another 52 acre prime-land harvest at Karen.
Bkichwa wrote:
I assume that the Hillcrest Schools were naturally under custody of Barclays Bank which is owed the 600 million by Matiba?
If the case, just how exactly did the Kenyattas "grab" the schools from a whole bank like Barclays?
And by "grab" I assume that you mean they have taken ownership of these schools for free without any money exchange with Barclays Bank?
Kindly explain.
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Post by abdulmote on Jun 24, 2011 12:41:59 GMT 3
bkichwa, strange cyber names eh.
On your comments about Job's post, I think you were right in calling him out to clarify or substantiate on his allegations. Having said that, may I also state the fact that I think it falls upon all of us as Jukwaa members and posters to help in demanding truthfulness and substantiation of what others are posting here for our good consumption. This is not a responsibility that has been allocated to any particular person or individual and certainly not me in exclusion of any others, but it is certainly our collective responsibility which will help to make Jukwaa a more credible and better board to be associated with.
What can also be worrying is this tendency which in my opinion is almost a Kenyan culture now; that of trying to hide and justify one's 'sins' or wrong doings behind similar actions of others who may have passed unchallenged. Two wrongs certainly do not make a right and even where I myself appear to have crossed that line, I would encourage all to kindly call me out in demand for a proper explanation or account and that’s the way to go!
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Post by gachquota on Jun 24, 2011 14:50:50 GMT 3
This deal stinks to high heavens lets call a spade a spade Raila knew what he was buying .Is he corrupt?Absolutely yes.
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Post by adongo23456 on Jun 24, 2011 16:47:23 GMT 3
You guys completely ruined mwalimkuu's "bombshell" story. I have said many times that if stupidity was a crime many of us would be locked up for life. Thank god, stupidity too is a right that we all can cherish, at our peril of course.
I don't worry too much about trash like this to "lower" the dignity of the forum. They speak volumes about the dignity or lack thereof of those who post them and that in itself is enough indictment in my books.
When a story says something else and is written in fairly understandable language and one then goes ahead to invent their own fantasy rants using the same story it is the sanity of the person engaging in such activity that is at stake. Mercifully the individual involved here has hardly made any efforts in Jukwaa to be taken seriously. It is the typical madman in the market place that everybody throws a banana at just to get out them of the way. There is not much else one can do about them.
In reality these kinds of characters are superstars in many cyber fora where people just slap names like Raila and tie it on anything and kaboom they have a thread going and they do the same over and over again and call it a discussion. May be it is a lifestyle. But whatever it is they make it very clear that you take them seriously at your own risk. I think those kinds of clowns also have a purpose in life and should be tolerated. That is my approach.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 24, 2011 18:02:32 GMT 3
Abdulmote,Uhali gani mjomba? Whereas I appreciate your view on this, I take exception to its tone which is nothing but intimidation. I do not know where you get the impression that anything said about someone passes for libel. If that were the case, just as bkichwa has indicated, Jukwaa would have enough of their own waiting for Mutunga to direct their cases accordingly. We have so many labels here such as butcher wa Naivasha, murderers, etc. Very recently we had a heated debate here where Tobiko was tried and committed by the Jukwaa court. Where have you been my friend? The fact that Phil and AO have cashed on your view with their hallelujah irrelevancies should tell you enough of what is expected of here. Some of us have refused to walk that road my friend. We shall take the insults and the name calling but stand for what we believe in. Back to the issues here, if you relook at my post, maybe the only thing that I can take back is the confusion of Malindi and Diani. Otherwise I stand by everything else as is. The story has clearly indicated that Raila is involved in a property whose ownership is disputed and whose acquisition by his company is in question. It was in fact argued before the court that the land title that he holds is not genuine. He was in court yesterday over the same. So what is the lie? Secondly, I do not know where you live, but wherever it is, it must be starved of dailies and other sources of information. Raila’s alleged involvement in maize scam in Kenya is not even news, but stale news. You can catch up on the stories here my friend: www.standardmedia.co.ke/politics/InsidePage.php?id=2000030197&cid=4www.nation.co.ke/News/-/1056/862072/-/vqj4aj/-/index.htmlwn.com/politics_behind_maize_scamWe even had a long discussion here on jukwaa about the same: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=5056Bkichwa,Thank you for calling out the hypocrisy witnessed here so often.
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Post by merlin on Jun 24, 2011 18:07:55 GMT 3
bkichwa, strange cyber names eh. On your comments about Job's post, I think you were right in calling him out to clarify or substantiate on his allegations. Having said that, may I also state the fact that I think it falls upon all of us as Jukwaa members and posters to help in demanding truthfulness and substantiation of what others are posting here for our good consumption. This is not a responsibility that has been allocated to any particular person or individual and certainly not me in exclusion of any others, but it is certainly our collective responsibility which will help to make Jukwaa a more credible and better board to be associated with. What can also be worrying is this tendency which in my opinion is almost a Kenyan culture now; that of trying to hide and justify one's 'sins' or wrong doings behind similar actions of others who may have passed unchallenged. Two wrongs certainly do not make a right and even where I myself appear to have crossed that line, I would encourage all to kindly call me out in demand for a proper explanation or account and that’s the way to go! I appreciate your efforts to keep some sanity on JUKWAA and support your comments. People make contributions and sometimes are driven by emotions whereby they trespass the line between reality and fiction. They make statements which they cannot justify because they do not have the factual evidence although it could be correct from deducible evidence. These are situations where other JUKWAA members could assist in validating the deducible evidence or rejecting it as fiction. This is the great value of JUKWAA together with all members to uncover reality - giving us insight what really is happening. There are however members who make contributions out of deep frustrations or hatred of which they are fully aware their given information is incorrect. They try to give their contributions a semblance of reality to con other members to accept their contribution as factual. However this needs some intelligence to conceal their intentions and Mwalimumkuu appears to be very poor in this. His comments can hurt though will not con anyone in accepting what he contribute is reality. I don’t know if we could define a code of conduct for contributing to JUKWAA in which members would commit to make best effort to supply factual information. Members who do not adhere to this could then be disqualified. Justify one's 'sins' or wrong doings behind similar actions of others.If we adhere to such reasoning we will never come to sanity as there is always another - even bigger - wrong doing as we committed. We should all feel responsible for our wrong doings and we know where we go wrong. Denial is degrading our self-image. |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 24, 2011 18:44:33 GMT 3
This deal stinks to high heavens lets call a spade a spade Raila knew what he was buying .Is he corrupt?Absolutely yes. Totally agree. When you look at the dates when this transaction was done, leaves you even more suspicious. The deal was done in the late 90s. This is a time when Raila and NDP were consumating their marriage with KANU. This coupled with the responses that Raila gave in court, raises more questions than answers. |
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Post by politicalmaniac on Jun 24, 2011 18:49:00 GMT 3
You guys completely ruined mwalimkuu's "bombshell" story. I have said many times that if stupidity was a crime many of us would be locked up for life. Thank god, stupidity too is a right that we all can cherish, at our peril of course. I don't worry too much about trash like this to "lower" the dignity of the forum. . AO Of course you are correct, again congenital stupidity bathed in hate is sometimes best left alone. If there is a wrangle about a plot of land and its before the courts a flummoxed ignoramus leaps beyond reality to the conclusion it was 'grabbed'. We all know the story about Kisumu Molasses and yet some say "it was grabbed" The maize story we know. In their desperate attempts to besmirch the integrity of the Rt Hon Prime Minister, ignorance bathed in hate will clamor for any straw man. We recently saw what happened when the dubious 7000$/day hotel suite was brought up and debunked. And just because their fathers and uncles and tribesmen were not housed at the waldorf hotel, their fangs dripped with venomous hate and envy. They will keep on trying to throw mud at the Rt Hon Prime Minister. It wont stick. Call him Mr Teflon if you want. Meanwhile I have not seen them comment on the thread "muthamaki uhuru caught napping again" despite it having 3 or 4 pages of comment. Very telling! |
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Post by enigma on Jun 24, 2011 20:35:00 GMT 3
I fail to see the connection between this issue and the Molasses plant. I would ask Mwalimu Mtukutu to independently visit the plant and farmers in the catchment region to understand the Molasses plant story. We cant keep feeding people facts about developments in Kenya. Tembea ujionee. Tafuta Sorgum that is Harvested every 3 months and it pays farmers more per acre than a teacher earns. Tafuta bei ya Miwa over and above what the traditional sugar companies have been paying. Give me another plant in Kenya that is generating biodiesel and bioethanol and paying farmers a decent wage? What about Africa? Those are just two examples but its a bigger story and the tragedy is that the pen holders like Mtukutu continue to dawdle crap all over the place.
On the question of the land case in Malindi, anyone that has bought land knows the pitfalls and procedures. Is it Raila's fault that someone sold him land and then sold it to somone else again? The foreigner has gone to court and the PM has appeared to give testimony. Why dont we wait for a verdict? I think Raila is entitled to stake his claim. I would if I were him. And as Phil says, why are we apportioning guilt before a judgement is made? I think if Mwalimu wasnt a Mtukutu, he might have waited for a judgement and then decided that it was a land grab. And the PM is to be commended for honouring a court sermons in person. I am yet to see Moi and Kibaki appear to answer for any state misappropriations, leave alone personal acquisitions such as the plot in question here.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 24, 2011 21:07:22 GMT 3
I fail to see the connection between this issue and the Molasses plant. I would ask Mwalimu Mtukutu to independently visit the plant and farmers in the catchment region to understand the Molasses plant story. We cant keep feeding people facts about developments in Kenya. Tembea ujionee. Tafuta Sorgum that is Harvested every 3 months and it pays farmers more per acre than a teacher earns. Tafuta bei ya Miwa over and above what the traditional sugar companies have been paying. Give me another plant in Kenya that is generating biodiesel and bioethanol and paying farmers a decent wage? What about Africa? Those are just two examples but its a bigger story and the tragedy is that the pen holders like Mtukutu continue to dawdle crap all over the place. On the question of the land case in Malindi, anyone that has bought land knows the pitfalls and procedures. Is it Raila's fault that someone sold him land and then sold it to somone else again? The foreigner has gone to court and the PM has appeared to give testimony. Why dont we wait for a verdict? I think Raila is entitled to stake his claim. I would if I were him. And as Phil says, why are we apportioning guilt before a judgement is made? I think if Mwalimu wasnt a Mtukutu, he might have waited for a judgement and then decided that it was a land grab. And the PM is to be commended for honouring a court sermons in person. I am yet to see Moi and Kibaki appear to answer for any state misappropriations, leave alone personal acquisitions such as the plot in question here. Thanks for your attention. Having said that though, you miss the point by a mile by turning the issue into a comparison of what who is earning where. The question here is not whether molasses is doing well or poorly, but how it came into existence in the first place. Should its profitability and provision of employment be used as a cover for the dubious means with which it was acquired. You see the problem with theft is that, its success becomes a motivator for more of the same. That is why we are drawing parellels between the malindi scam and molasses grab. |
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Post by enigma on Jun 24, 2011 21:29:43 GMT 3
Ok. Why dont you check out Kisumu Development Trust , its role in the acqusition in the KMP and tell me what is so dubious about it. Track down a few of the bounced cheques that were supposed to have raised the princely sum of cough...cough...cough.....2 million Kenya shillings. How much of the two million were bounced cheques?
I was just as outraged as most people when the KMP thing came out. But I took the time to understand what has transpired and where the company is now. I would suggest that you let go of your prejudice and look at it afresh.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 24, 2011 22:42:27 GMT 3
Ok. Why dont you check out Kisumu Development Trust , its role in the acqusition in the KMP and tell me what is so dubious about it. Track down a few of the bounced cheques that were supposed to have raised the princely sum of cough...cough...cough.....2 million Kenya shillings. How much of the two million were bounced cheques? I was just as outraged as most people when the KMP thing came out. But I took the time to understand what has transpired and where the company is now. I would suggest that you let go of your prejudice and look at it afresh. I have looked at this thing my friend as a young man and now as an adult and I am yet to encounter anything that persuades me convinvingly that this was not a fraud. Soma hapa: kenvironews.wordpress.com/2007/09/18/raila-a-odinga-astute-businessman-or-corrupt-politician/Pay close attention at the events leading to and immediately after the acquisition. |
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Post by palaver on Jun 25, 2011 0:24:57 GMT 3
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Post by einstein on Jun 26, 2011 6:19:12 GMT 3
Abdulmote, Your comments above are well taken. However, if Mwalimumkuu is to be accused of making unsubstantiated assertions that may be deemed "misplaced, malicious, unwarranted and potentially libelous", it is only because this is a common trend in Jukwaa. Case in point: On the FPE scam recently debated here on Jukwaa, Job made an assertion about the Kenyattas having "grabbed" Matiba's Hillcrest Consortium of Schools. I found this assertion quite strange because my understanding is that Barclays Bank whom Matiba owes about 600 million shillings, is said to have custody of these schools as security for Matiba's debt. I therefore asked Job to explain how the Kenyattas grabbed property that is probably in custody of a major bank like Barclays. He never responded, or "substantiated" his assertion as such if you will. Moreover, no other Jukwaaist commented on this point either. If Mwalimumkuu is going to be admonished for unsubstantiated assertions that are deemed to be of a malicious and potentially libelous nature, then it is only fair that this measure be meted out across the whole of Jukwaa membership...for it is not only Mwalimumkuu who is guilty of the kind of sins you state. Here is an excerpt of the FPE discussion (+ link) I have mentioned above: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3635&page=2Jun 16, 2011, 11:31pm, job wrote:
The Kenyatta's are investing heavy in private schools, private academies, and even private institutions of higher learning anticipating future windfalls. Right now, the Kenyatta family has just grabbed from the Matiba family, the entire consortium of Hillcrest International Schools, over a Sh 600 million loan that the Matibas couldn't pay back to Barclays Bank.
By the way, the Hillcrest grab by the Kenyatta's (over the Matiba family woes) is yet another 52 acre prime-land harvest at Karen.
Bkichwa wrote:
I assume that the Hillcrest Schools were naturally under custody of Barclays Bank which is owed the 600 million by Matiba?
If the case, just how exactly did the Kenyattas "grab" the schools from a whole bank like Barclays?
And by "grab" I assume that you mean they have taken ownership of these schools for free without any money exchange with Barclays Bank?
Kindly explain.
You would make a loyal advocate mate, especially for those busy attacking Raila with unsubstantiated claims. You are always lurking behind the scenes only to pop-up when your politically correct mates are challenged. I would like to read a thread started by yourself or posts originating from yourself! It might be good to play even the devil's advocate, but knowing your own original thoughts would even be better so we can know what Bkichwa really stands for as an individual. Has it occurred to you that the people you so fervently defend are in a position to defend their own views if only you could give them a chance? |
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Post by kamalet on Jun 26, 2011 23:15:51 GMT 3
MM
Just how many commentators or politicians would have done it differently if they were in Raila's shoes in 1999 - 2002?
Give the man a break?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jun 26, 2011 23:23:10 GMT 3
MM Just how many commentators or politicians would have done it differently if they were in Raila's shoes in 1999 - 2002? Give the man a break? I know, but it becomes a problem when some here want to lecture us on how the poor fellow is nyeupe kama pamba while the record says otherwise. |
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Post by bkichwa on Jun 27, 2011 12:23:42 GMT 3
bkichwa, strange cyber names eh. On your comments about Job's post, I think you were right in calling him out to clarify or substantiate on his allegations. Having said that, may I also state the fact that I think it falls upon all of us as Jukwaa members and posters to help in demanding truthfulness and substantiation of what others are posting here for our good consumption. This is not a responsibility that has been allocated to any particular person or individual and certainly not me in exclusion of any others, but it is certainly our collective responsibility which will help to make Jukwaa a more credible and better board to be associated with. What can also be worrying is this tendency which in my opinion is almost a Kenyan culture now; that of trying to hide and justify one's 'sins' or wrong doings behind similar actions of others who may have passed unchallenged. Two wrongs certainly do not make a right and even where I myself appear to have crossed that line, I would encourage all to kindly call me out in demand for a proper explanation or account and that’s the way to go! Abdulmote, Your comments above are well received and noted. I appreciate your contributions to Jukwaa which I find sober and objective. Have a good one. |
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Post by bkichwa on Jun 27, 2011 13:03:32 GMT 3
Abdulmote, Your comments above are well taken. However, if Mwalimumkuu is to be accused of making unsubstantiated assertions that may be deemed "misplaced, malicious, unwarranted and potentially libelous", it is only because this is a common trend in Jukwaa. Case in point: On the FPE scam recently debated here on Jukwaa, Job made an assertion about the Kenyattas having "grabbed" Matiba's Hillcrest Consortium of Schools. I found this assertion quite strange because my understanding is that Barclays Bank whom Matiba owes about 600 million shillings, is said to have custody of these schools as security for Matiba's debt. I therefore asked Job to explain how the Kenyattas grabbed property that is probably in custody of a major bank like Barclays. He never responded, or "substantiated" his assertion as such if you will. Moreover, no other Jukwaaist commented on this point either. If Mwalimumkuu is going to be admonished for unsubstantiated assertions that are deemed to be of a malicious and potentially libelous nature, then it is only fair that this measure be meted out across the whole of Jukwaa membership...for it is not only Mwalimumkuu who is guilty of the kind of sins you state. Here is an excerpt of the FPE discussion (+ link) I have mentioned above: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=3635&page=2Jun 16, 2011, 11:31pm, job wrote:
The Kenyatta's are investing heavy in private schools, private academies, and even private institutions of higher learning anticipating future windfalls. Right now, the Kenyatta family has just grabbed from the Matiba family, the entire consortium of Hillcrest International Schools, over a Sh 600 million loan that the Matibas couldn't pay back to Barclays Bank.
By the way, the Hillcrest grab by the Kenyatta's (over the Matiba family woes) is yet another 52 acre prime-land harvest at Karen.
Bkichwa wrote:
I assume that the Hillcrest Schools were naturally under custody of Barclays Bank which is owed the 600 million by Matiba?
If the case, just how exactly did the Kenyattas "grab" the schools from a whole bank like Barclays?
And by "grab" I assume that you mean they have taken ownership of these schools for free without any money exchange with Barclays Bank?
Kindly explain.
You would make a loyal advocate mate, especially for those busy attacking Raila with unsubstantiated claims. You are always lurking behind the scenes only to pop-up when your politically correct mates are challenged. I would like to read a thread started by yourself or posts originating from yourself! It might be good to play even the devil's advocate, but knowing your own original thoughts would even be better so we can know what Bkichwa really stands for as an individual. Has it occurred to you that the people your so fervently defend are in a position to defend their own views if only you could give them a chance? Einstein, In response, I think that the analysis and debate of the actual contributions that Jukwaa members make would be of more value to Jukwaa's forum. This, instead of delving into matters pertaining to Jukwaa personalities:- what one perceives they are about, their assumed agendas, how many threads they have started, how frequently they post their opinions, etc, etc. As long as contributors to threads do so in line with the Jukwaa rules that are laid down by OO, then I believe that a focus on Jukwaa discussion topics and other forms of contributions related to these and which advance these, are what's important. Or otherwise said, I'd rather we discuss the contributions that I make (i.e. their validity or not), than discuss me. |
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Post by einstein on Jun 27, 2011 13:39:31 GMT 3
Bkichwa,You would make a loyal advocate mate, especially for those busy attacking Raila with unsubstantiated claims. You are always lurking behind the scenes only to pop-up when your politically correct mates are challenged. I would like to read a thread started by yourself or posts originating from yourself! It might be good to play even the devil's advocate, but knowing your own original thoughts would even be better so we can know what Bkichwa really stands for as an individual. Has it occurred to you that the people your so fervently defend are in a position to defend their own views if only you could give them a chance? Einstein, In response, I think that the analysis and debate of the actual contributions that Jukwaa members make would be of more value to Jukwaa's forum. This, instead of delving into matters pertaining to Jukwaa personalities:- what one perceives they are about, their assumed agendas, how many threads they have started, how frequently they post their opinions, etc, etc. As long as contributors to threads do so in line with the Jukwaa rules that are laid down by OO, then I believe that a focus on Jukwaa discussion topics and other forms of contributions related to these and which advance these, are what's important. Or otherwise said, I'd rather we discuss the contributions that I make (i.e. their validity or not), than discuss me. Point taken, but please have a good hard look at all your posts! They are neither direct contributions nor direct reactions to what others post. Your posts are solely to defend challenged contributors! And that is my beef, not your person. The people you always defend are very intelligent contributors who can defend themselves! Or are you a babysitter of sorts? |
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