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Post by job on Sept 23, 2011 17:59:37 GMT 3
Now we have Maina Njenga in the mix. He conducted oaths The prosecution is talking of a 'former' Mungiki sect leader. Could it have been Ndura Waruinge? Remember him causing mayhem in Kibera that led to several deaths, just before elections? I think it was Waruinge.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Sept 23, 2011 18:16:13 GMT 3
This is now boring; the same same thing over and over again as if we are hard of hearing.
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Post by adongo23456 on Sept 23, 2011 18:24:58 GMT 3
This is now boring; the same same thing over and over again as if we are hard of hearing. Boring? Killing people and raping women is never a boring activity. Ask the perpetrators my friend. They are very excited when they do these things. It is good for these killers to sit there and listen to every detail of their heinious crimes. It is also very important for the citizens of our beloved country to get a grip on what the Hague process is all about. It is about the victims not the silly political games we have been fed with for years. It is time for reckoning. This is actually a very painful time for the country.
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Post by b6k on Sept 23, 2011 18:43:18 GMT 3
4. It is clear that during PEV, the attempt to ring-fence all government security operations strictly within ranks of the Kikuyu failed miserably. I submit that is is precisely this snipping by non-Kikuyu's within the NSIS, that led to the undetected escape of many NSIS situation reports (now in Ocampo's hands), such as the sensitive ones detailing how Kenya Army Trucks ere used to ferry Mungiki after the State House meeting OR how AP uniforms were to be distributed to Mungiki for attacks targeting Nakuru, Naivasha, Eldoret, Kisumu, and Kakamega OR how arms were sourced from Somalia. Job, there are clearly some patriots at the NSIS who deserve kudos. Thank God for our diversity as well since it creates natural checks & balances with whistle blowers who are disgusted by excesses or abuse of office by their bosses.
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Post by gemagema on Sept 23, 2011 18:46:21 GMT 3
Hussein Ali provided free passage of the Mungiki to Naivasha and Nakuru, even with knowledge of the repercussions. That is his crime.
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Post by gemagema on Sept 23, 2011 18:47:44 GMT 3
Also withdrawal of prison guards by Ali created a free zone for the merciless operation of the Mungiki
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 23, 2011 19:05:58 GMT 3
Today wearing sleeveless at the back :-) I followed your piercing gaze! I am informed this kind of comment is an irrelevance on this thread. But there is this research which says per minute a man thinks thrice about sex. And even during a serious moment like a heart surgery, the male lead surgeon still manages x1 per every minute. I am sorry male folks, she is hot and you are thinking about it in-between the legal highs!
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Post by einstein on Sept 23, 2011 19:06:04 GMT 3
There you go with Njuguna Gitau of Mungiki brought down by the Kwekwe squad for threatening to spill the beans!
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Post by dola121945 on Sept 23, 2011 19:07:28 GMT 3
Is it starting to get clear now what was happening during the time PEV happened and what the accused are alleged to have done. Thank God for the brave Kenyans who made it possible for some of the details in the hands of the OPT (unfortunatels some of them paid dearly with their lives even for that evidence) What happened was unthinkable, but the details coming out and the revision of what the victioms went through, is quite difficult to imagine and take once again. We cannot let what happened in 2007/08 happen again. This case is gripping especially the details that are being articulated, makes you eager for the real trial where the rest will be mentioned. I feel very sad, but I'm hopefull that justice will eventually prevail. A whole lot of wrong was committed, more so by people that are meant to safeguard us as kenyans, those who make decisions for the better of the nation. They have been colluding in a hurry to try and stop the proceedings, quite glad that we are hearing some of what they did at that time, shameful and awful in deed. Man can be quite evil. These proceedings are a real eye opener to this fact !
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Post by nok on Sept 23, 2011 19:11:43 GMT 3
Listening to what is being said, i get the feeling as though Mungiki is paying back what the establishment ( Kikuyu ; Homegaurds; represesnted by Uhuru ) and police have done to them. It is what i call going to bed with the devil.
The son's and daughters of the Mau Mau finally have their chance to revenge on those they feel betrayed the pro independence ideals of their Fathers and mothers.
These are heavy stuff!!!
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Post by kasuku on Sept 23, 2011 19:15:44 GMT 3
Now i see Ali's part. is the man an idiot or he is just flatly cold blooded? He is smiling behind the hand hiding his face. I would like to read his CV indeed
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Post by jakaswanga on Sept 23, 2011 19:16:21 GMT 3
Prosecutor concludes: By complying with Mr. Muthaura's orders [sic] Ali abeted the crimes.
His failure to act, to prevent in any way, demonstrates his intention and collusion, to further these aims. He chose not to investigate, and to destroy evidence.
I submit this ... Establishes Mohamed Hussein furthered intentionally the plan and cause orchestrated by Muthaura and Uhuru K.
But it all looks to me to open the backdoor for Ali to reason he was a faithful soldier carrying out his orders. May not be very convincing, but it reduces sentence on conviction! and leads to early release on good behaviour. I have not heard the OTP claim Ali took part in PLANNING!
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Post by nok on Sept 23, 2011 19:18:23 GMT 3
By the way I would like to get an interview from Maina Njenga and hear what he would say after all this
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Post by gemagema on Sept 23, 2011 19:28:20 GMT 3
Ok, now they have roped in the assassination by the Kwekwe of the Mungiki guys who were part of the 'common plan'. However, i do not understand why Njuguna Gitau of Mungiki wanted to expose the politicians involved in the Nakuru Naivasha retaliations. Were there some promises made to Mungiki that were not fulfilled or had Njuguna sensed that they were coming for him?
Mungiki are Kikuyus but they cannot be trusted ... i mean they kill their own as mercilessly as they killed the others during the PEV. Morever, the Mungiki has oftentimes been against the Kikuyu elite. So yes, although somebody mentioned somewhere that he doubts that a mungiki member would betray or coopeate with Ocampo, it is actually a possibility. My doc, who is Kikuyu and seems to comprehend well the working of the Mungiki, is of the same opinion.
Anyways, prosecution is now down...lets listen in to the defence. They might just disqualify the OTP case, i.e if they keep the word of the suspects - we are innocent.
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Post by mzee on Sept 23, 2011 19:35:25 GMT 3
I dont know, but looks as if UK and Muthaura were using Ali for their dirty jobs. Its upon Ali to either die for the duo or tell the truth and get reduced sentence. I think that Uhuru and Muthaura, to papaphrase Ocampo, are "cooked".
Why do I also have a feeling that in comparison, Rutos case was child play.
These are major crimes
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Post by merkeju on Sept 23, 2011 19:40:27 GMT 3
Who are the mungiki leaders killed to cover the crimes committed by this suspects(uhuru,ali,muthaura)
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Post by einstein on Sept 23, 2011 19:43:24 GMT 3
......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... 6. As for the vicious Nakuru attacks, I frankly think former Nakuru Town MP David Manyara should also be charged at the ICC along the same lines of Ali - assisting execute the joint plan. Job,Is this the same Manyara who quit his studies in the US hoping to recapture his late father's parliamentary seat back then? Or am I talking about someone else?
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Post by job on Sept 23, 2011 19:49:30 GMT 3
......................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................................... 6. As for the vicious Nakuru attacks, I frankly think former Nakuru Town MP David Manyara should also be charged at the ICC along the same lines of Ali - assisting execute the joint plan. Job,Is this the same Manyara who quit his studies in the US hoping to recapture his late father's parliamentary seat back then? Or am I talking about someone else? That's someone else - Mirugi. 1. The role of Michuki was big in planning the PEV retaliation. 2. It appears the OTP secured some minutes of meetings of the Naivasha District Security Committee! Wow! They are slowly getting crucial primary evidence.
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Post by einstein on Sept 23, 2011 19:52:38 GMT 3
Mr Khan is feeling the heat! Wants early adjournment.
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Post by adongo23456 on Sept 23, 2011 19:54:28 GMT 3
I dont know, but looks as if UK and Muthaura were using Ali for their dirty jobs. Its upon Ali to either die for the duo or tell the truth and get reduced sentence. I think that Uhuru and Muthaura, to papaphrase Ocampo, are "cooked". Why do I also have a feeling that in comparison, Rutos case was child play. These are major crimes Mzee, You are right. But Ali comes across as a cold blooded killer too. He knew exactly what he was being asked to do and went ahead and did it very efficiently. But this is Kibaki's baby. If the defense want to be cheeky, particularly Ali's defense team they have to turn the case around and ask the court to decide based on the evidence who really bares the greatest responsibility if not the person who was the president of Kenya at that time. The defense has to raise the issue of chain of command and demand that the court follows that to its logical conclusion and bring Mwai Kibaki to face charges of committing crimes against humanity. There is no way in hell all these murderous activities could go on without the blessing if not active participation of the head of state. So the ball is in the court of Ali's defense team. They can waste time trying to deny the obvious or they can throw in the towel and put the blame where it belongs. If this thing goes to trial it is very possible Ali will own up and plead for mercy as a victim of state orders and get away with a few years. I do not think people facing charges can turn witnesses at the Hague but I think there is a way out for Ali. The trouble is the man could be dead before the actual trials begin. The big boys are going to watch him day and night. Now let's wait for Muthamaki to take the stand as a witness. Oh boy. I can bet my mother's last goat, if it is still there, that muthamaki is not looking forward to the cross examination. It could be brutal. Uhuru did what my son when he was younger used to do with his cousins when we go camping. The boys would try something dangerous and stupid like trying to jump over a rock in a nasty place. One would say to the other I dare to jump over that rock. Then the cousin would reply by saying I double dare you to do it then I will do it. And then you hear oh yeah, I triple dare you. And I woudl have to tell them a competition on stupidity is not a very helpful endevour. That is what Uhuru did. Uhuru dared Ocampo to bring him to the Hague (kwa mama yao). Ocampo double dared him and muthamaki tooka triple dare. It is the movie dumb and dumber when they compete on who can eat the most hot paper and ended killing the other fool. It is game time.
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Post by Fahari on Sept 23, 2011 20:03:35 GMT 3
The OTPs presentation beggers belief, prior to the elections the mungiki were supporting ODM they had been ruthlessly hunted down by Ali, at what point did they change sides? It is inconceivable that Ali would then turn around and cooperate with the same people he was committed to eliminating. The mungiki have an axe to grind with Ali and any evidence against him is suspect.
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Post by phil on Sept 23, 2011 20:07:59 GMT 3
Finally, Muhtaura joins Uhuru band wagon, disowning Mungiki.
Selective clips from Mungiki Leader support for Raila soon after he was released from prison. Desperation galore!
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Post by stranger1in3 on Sept 23, 2011 20:09:44 GMT 3
The going is getting tougher.It is now clear that unless the defence do a robust job,Uhuru and Muthaura are are going to sink.Ali still has a fighting chance.
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Post by mangai on Sept 23, 2011 20:09:47 GMT 3
The OTPs presentation beggers belief, prior to the elections the mungiki were supporting ODM they had been ruthlessly hunted down by Ali, at what point did they change sides? It is inconceivable that Ali would then turn around and cooperate with the same people he was committed to eliminating. The mungiki have an axe to grind with Ali and any evidence against them is suspect. If you followed the presentation keenly, you would have realised that because of their past animosity with the police, the Mungiki wanted assurance that the police will not interfere. Which assurance they got from Muthaura who telephoned the 'Commissioner' in their presence.
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Post by mzee on Sept 23, 2011 20:19:04 GMT 3
Adongo, I think that Ali might wait just too long for fear of the Uhurus of Kenya. The guy knows how ruthless akina Muthaura can be. But as you said, he might die before he provides the evidence.
later.....
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