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Post by kamalet on Nov 3, 2011 8:18:15 GMT 3
OO,Should you get any other threats on your life, assuming that Kamale's were not meant as such, please let us know immediately. For every soul is entitled to their own opinions about this war. So, never take any chances! Einstein Oloo has been inthe Kenyan political scene for a long time, and this mantra of "they are trying to finish me" did not start with the war against the goons in Baidoa or Kismayu. It started from the good old days of the Nyayo error -people felt threated by anything they rarely understood and confused it with "finishing me"stories!
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Post by subsaharanite on Nov 3, 2011 8:20:19 GMT 3
Time out gentlemen.
This has gone far. Can we discuss the topic at hand and leave these sideshows where they belong? This viral thread is becoming contagious. Lets discuss Kenya's invasion and not the fight between ourselves.
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Post by kamalet on Nov 3, 2011 8:23:47 GMT 3
Thanks Sadik, for that PRINCIPLED intervention. You and I have not always been on the same side in debate and discourse-in fact, we have rattled sabres on more than one occasion so nobody here can have the gall of tagging you as "an Oloo sycophant".Actually, "Shifta" practically GOADED me to kick him out of Jukwaa. And I did it with PLEASURE.After using Rwanda and the Post-Election Violence period in Kenya as examples in explaining my discomfort at this penchant for subhumanizing others, I warned the ex-member about the usage of a certain made up word which had been coined by someone else who shares his views. He nevertheless went on to REPEAT the word on three consecutive occasions.This is what I told him the second time he did it: Shifta:I have already suggested to you in another thread to watch what you say. Please I beg you, don't push it. Onyango Oloo Nairobi It was only when he PERSISTED that I gave him the medicine he was sorely lacking: There you go again, calling people BABOONS. My friend, I am KICKING YOU OUT OF JUKWAA. Jukwaa AdministratorSadik, what you said about Roughrider is SPOT ON-I will not even bother reacting directly to him. It was quite amusing to see him "demanding" the return of the expired Shifta as if he, Roughrider, has supernatural powers of raising the digitally dead from their cyber graves and issuing an edict to Kathure and Adongo (who is not even a moderator) to "rein in" their comrade of long standing Onyango Oloo. I invite Roughrider and other like minded Jukwaa members to put on their sack clothes because from the look of things to come on this forum over the next few weeks, there is going to be a lot more wailing and gnashing of teeth. Onyango Oloo Nairobi[/quote] Oh how this war has united people even from the least likely areas! That Oloo and Sadik would seem to share the same views in as much as Rough Rider and Kamale seem to agree will tell you how when it comes to patriotism and treachery, Kenyans can unite for a cause. But this is when matters are national. But when it is reduced to the usual village politics we quickly revert to our little tribal cocoons as is quite clear in the KKV theft of funds in Raila's ministry. The number of people working to sanitise Raila headed by Oloo is sufficiently telling whilst those who think he should go for condoning theft in his kitchen are the usual suspects!
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 3, 2011 10:46:53 GMT 3
Kamalet
I think you are being disingenuous. I am sure you know that Oloo and I have no problem defending our country, we have done that here several time. Oloo has put succinct factual analysis of what he thinks is a mistaken war, and that I think should not in way to be interpreted as treachery, and ditto my support for it. It is nothing but to say you are opportunistic in your views, clutching on any straw you deemed fit, none seem to fit your criticism at the moment.
Oloo and I share the fact that the war in Somalia is baseless, and it is common sense that it will not achieve any of its intended purpose. The victims are wide and many, including our own people like yourself who are using the war in the context of dreaming and stoking fictitious nationalism on a worthless cause. So, I ask, what will happen tomorrow when the war ends, because it certainly will come to an end? Will your crusade for 'nationalism and patriotism' die with it?
I think the wave of 'nationalism and patriotism' is short lived, and the bubble will burst soon, when reality strikes.
Many have said the prudent thing to do was deal with the Al-Shabaab menace in a measured proportional way which will if done properly yield long term solution. You as a security person should be filling us in on what best approach to take.
As for your relationship with Roughrider, I wait to see when he joins you in criticising Raila, then will I confirm you are really on the same spectra of events. But the way I think Raila has exonerated himself from the World Bank scandal and is longer liable as you put it. He explained himself very clearly in Parliament, and unless you have something else you better look for another issue with which to beat him [Raila].
My support for Oloo was simply factual based on what I read in this thread. If I missed something which you think could have made a difference in my opiono, let me know, as my comment was subjective. Other than that, I remain, yours truly myself.
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Post by roughrider on Nov 3, 2011 13:28:07 GMT 3
As for Roughrider, I fear he has taking the adolescent status in Jukwaa by constantly challenging whatever stands Oloo takes on issues. So it was not strange to see him come out gun blazing in support of the war knowing Oloo will be his antagonist. This is Roughrider at his best - all fired up to get to Oloo. One will have to wait and see who amongst two will give way! Sadik - you are wrong. I am against irrationality that I see in Oloo's actions. Every time I see actions that I disagree with, I will point them out. Whether it is Daniel Waweru, Otishotish or Shifta you find that a sledgehammer is being used with reckless abandon. Jukwaa is like Kenya. The minute people keep quite when such stuff is perpetuated then we are lost into intolerance. Shifta and I chose to support our troops and their mission. Oloo had other ideas. All's fair in love and war. Calling the Al Shabaab, a terror organisation that is bent on killing innocent Kenyans and destroying our country 'baboons' irritated Oloo so much that he sent Shifta packing. I think that is most unfair. It is extreme. There are people who think that calling them baboons is being charitable! BTW: We should ban all who support the action against Al Shabaab because implicitly we are calling for them to be killed. That is worse than calling them animals!
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Post by roughrider on Nov 3, 2011 13:38:05 GMT 3
roughrider,don't be silly!Your man there, with a handle that is derogatory to Kenyan Somalis (unless he himself is a Kenyan Somali, & even then) had to get lost. He had to go because he denied the humanity, however skewed of those terrorists Al Shabaab. You couldn't do a thing - even if you wanted to. By the way, we are trying to kill the Al Shabaab. That, among other things. Clearly you did not get the memo. PS: and one more thing Ms. Ignorant, you don't know the meaning of Shifta. Kindly consult Mr. Google.
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Post by roughrider on Nov 3, 2011 13:40:17 GMT 3
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Post by roughrider on Nov 3, 2011 13:48:08 GMT 3
A closing statement on the kerfuffle around Shifta's involuntary 'demise': I believe that we can disagree on local policy, politics, social issues etc; but as soon as our troops are engaged in a situation of external armed conflict, it is unlawful and unpatriotic for citizens to trumpet enemy propaganda.
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emali
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Post by emali on Nov 3, 2011 14:45:57 GMT 3
Looks like OO shares alot with pal Miguna Miguna...a monopoly on 'good ideas'....Jukwaa is a nice board but it looks like OO is getting tired with it's success...what next? a new thread about Miguna's expert opinion on Kenyan men's monoploy in world Marathons? or perharps a quote of this post by OO along the lines of 'vanish peon we Socialists have no time for your ilk...' Emali:The biggest refutation of the claims above is your very own posting.What is Miguna's name doing in this thread? Keep to the topic. I smile when I hear you talk of Jukwaa's success. Onyango Oloo NairobiReally? I was that off topic...the way I see it is you who took this topic to left field, my addition of Miguna’s name was just keeping with the theme around this parts after all it’s not like Kwendo Opanga’s opinions are given the pied piper of Hamlin treatment on this board... Yes you can smile...Jukwaa is a great board... Back on topic to quote RAO in today’s Nation... ‘This is war. It is not like 10-meter or 10 kilometre race. We will fight until the enemy is defeated’
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 3, 2011 16:00:58 GMT 3
Roughrider
The meaning of Shifta must be read in terms of usage in common conversation, not in some intellectual context.
It is pejorative to refer to Kenyan Somalis as Shiftas. Just as it is to refer to Kikuyus (Kenyan) as Ngorokos or the Luos (Kenyan) as Kavirondos.
Bro, of late you have exhibited a very weird outlook of yourself. I use to enjoy reading your writing, especially in issues economics. But, of late you sound very bitter and hurtful. if I may ask, why are you acting so wild on this war business? You have stated several times your pro-war stance, can't you then leave it at that? Must you go seeking unnecessary fights with people. You can disagree with people, as you have done many a times before but should you really play up as someone exploding on emotions about the war to attack people.
I think you should chill. Some of us have relatives in the frontline, yet you don't see us jump up down about the war.
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Post by kamalet on Nov 3, 2011 17:18:16 GMT 3
RoughriderThe meaning of Shifta must be read in terms of usage in common conversation, not in some intellectual context. It is pejorative to refer to Kenyan Somalis as Shiftas. Just as it is to refer to Kikuyus (Kenyan) as Ngorokos or the Luos (Kenyan) as Kavirondos. Bro, of late you have exhibited a very weird outlook of yourself. I use to enjoy reading your writing, especially in issues economics. But, of late you sound very bitter and hurtful. if I may ask, why are you acting so wild on this war business? You have stated several times your pro-war stance, can't you then leave it at that? Must you go seeking unnecessary fights with people. You can disagree with people, as you have done many a times before but should you really play up as someone exploding on emotions about the war to attack people. I think you should chill. Some of us have relatives in the frontline, yet you don't see us jump up down about the war. You are now inventing the meaning of Shifta. How about the definition of the word from wikipedia: Shifta (or "shufta") is term used in Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, and Somalia for rebel, outlaw, or bandit.[1][2] The word is derived from shúfto.[3][4] Historically, shifta served as local militia in the lawless rural mountainous regions on the Horn of Africa. The word shifta can be translated as 'bandit' or 'outlaw', but can include anyone who rebels against an authority or an institution that is seen as illegitimateAs for use of the term in Kenya during the Shfta war - the name was derived from the meaning 'bandit'. I am not sure how perjorative that is as not all Somalis are bandits as you now try to claim!
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 3, 2011 18:31:49 GMT 3
RoughriderThe meaning of Shifta must be read in terms of usage in common conversation, not in some intellectual context. It is pejorative to refer to Kenyan Somalis as Shiftas. Just as it is to refer to Kikuyus (Kenyan) as Ngorokos or the Luos (Kenyan) as Kavirondos. Bro, of late you have exhibited a very weird outlook of yourself. I use to enjoy reading your writing, especially in issues economics. But, of late you sound very bitter and hurtful. if I may ask, why are you acting so wild on this war business? You have stated several times your pro-war stance, can't you then leave it at that? Must you go seeking unnecessary fights with people. You can disagree with people, as you have done many a times before but should you really play up as someone exploding on emotions about the war to attack people. I think you should chill. Some of us have relatives in the frontline, yet you don't see us jump up down about the war. You are now inventing the meaning of Shifta. How about the definition of the word from wikipedia: Shifta (or "shufta") is term used in Eritrea, Ethiopia, Kenya, and Somalia for rebel, outlaw, or bandit.[1][2] The word is derived from shúfto.[3][4] Historically, shifta served as local militia in the lawless rural mountainous regions on the Horn of Africa. The word shifta can be translated as 'bandit' or 'outlaw', but can include anyone who rebels against an authority or an institution that is seen as illegitimateAs for use of the term in Kenya during the Shfta war - the name was derived from the meaning 'bandit'. I am not sure how perjorative that is as not all Somalis are bandits as you now try to claim! KamaletActually it was not 'bandit' but outlaw where the term 'shifta' was derived. Is that not perforative enough to call a whole community outlaws? In tandem, in the Kenyan context Kenyan Somalis have long been referred to as shiftas as derogative term. Indeed, when Kenyan Somalis are been insulted they are usually referred to as Shiftas. This is the same context the British used to refer to Luos as wa-Kavirondo. Here it is in your 'trusted' wikipedia, en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kavirondo
From local young warriors, armed with spears, bows, arrows, & clubs, who were observed to sit on their heels, which in Swahili is kaa virondo. Thus the region became Kavirondo, the inhabitants pejoratively called wa-Kavirondo: “people who sit on their heels”
So, I hope you now see why referring to Kenyan Somalis as shiftas is derogative, just as the other 'labels' given to the others I mentioned when being insulted. By the way, wikipedia is edited by people who frequently get things wrong, as most are not specialised on the given subject. Rely upon them on your peril.
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 3, 2011 19:32:10 GMT 3
Time out gentlemen. This has gone far. Can we discuss the topic at hand and leave these sideshows where they belong? This viral thread is becoming contagious. Lets discuss Kenya's invasion and not the fight between ourselves. Subsaharanite, When some have usurped and clothed themselves in the bloodied flag of patriotism, and declared those who think different to be cowards, treacherous alshabagoon apologists and fatherland haters, the only discussion we will be having will be side shows. Think of a highly inflammable divorce case! Just plain quarrels!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 3, 2011 19:43:06 GMT 3
roughrider,don't be silly!Your man there, with a handle that is derogatory to Kenyan Somalis (unless he himself is a Kenyan Somali, & even then) had to get lost. He had to go because he denied the humanity, however skewed of those terrorists Al Shabaab. You couldn't do a thing - even if you wanted to. By the way, we are trying to kill the Al Shabaab. That, among other things. Clearly you did not get the memo. PS: and one more thing Ms. Ignorant, you don't know the meaning of Shifta. Kindly consult Mr. Google. roughrider,is that a fact? we'll just have to see about that. As for ignorance you are a spectacular example of ignorance. People call me many things but even enemies know that terming me as ignorant isn't so. Take it from a woman!!
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 3, 2011 20:08:21 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,You did not have to resort to name callings. Has it ever occurred to you that you are the one and only member of this board who is pained so much by my handle? I think this is at least the third time that you are dragging my handle into your rants. Do you feel intimidated by that handle? If I changed the handle to 'Toddler' or #b#'Kondoo'#/b# or '#b#Nyang'au'#/b# or anything else but NOT #b#'Einstein',#/b# #color=Purple#would you get back your peace of mind#/color#? Have you ever heard of an ailment termed #b#'Inferiority Complex'? #/b#It is a feeling that one is less important, less clever or less admired than other people# This feeling makes some people #b#aggressive #/b#and others shy# People who suffer from it, more so the aggressive type, always try to go to great lengths to prove their #b#self-worth #/b#even when it is uncalled for# Okay, I will from now henceforth leave you alone as per your request# But that means, the reverse also applies# Besides that, I #b#SHALL#/b# leave #b#ALL#/b# your posts alone and you #b#MUST #/b#also leave #b#ALL#/b# my posts alone# #b#May the admins and the Jukwaa membership be our witnesses! Amen!#/b## Einstein You are most welcome to leave all my posts. I on the other hand reserve my rights to engage in rebuttal or affirmation of anything you write openly on this forum! I don't do boycotts! why would I bother to be a member of a debating club if boycotting others opinions is my thing? But let me today explain to you and any other interested party why I have a thing with this einstein handle. You will notice how far from inferiority complex it will be. This will not be the last time I jest your handle. Here is the background. I first heard of Einstein in the form of Albert, from Mr.Mairura, a maths teacher who told us Albert Einstein was more important to humanity than Jesus Xristus. Now, we had heard of Jesus, and every sunday was Jesus praise day, but Albert Einstein? Mr. Mairura then wrote an equation on the board, the famous E=MCC! It meant nothing to us, but he insisted this simple equation had more meaning to humanity than God's son, and for the next four years he would be introducing us to the basics of it. I did not become a physicist as Mr. Mairura would have wanted, but I developed a life-long awe for atomic and nuclear physics, and her high priest Albert Einstein. The creator of limitless energy! A sun-god! So When I come across anybody or anything calling itself Einstein, and he she or it fails to enthrall me with whizzkid stuff, I do become furious with a tendency to downright nastiness. Just like some believers in certain religions do not take kindly to the sacrillege of their prophet's name, Jakaswanga does not like any Tom Dick and what-have-you calling themselves Einstein! That is a name reserved for genius! It is just that being secular, I do not issue fatwas!Do you now see why when I read some of your Jukwaa bests, I get pissed off? Yes, change that handle and I will have peace, or, give me E is equal to M times C-squared exposes on Jukwaa! No two ways about it!
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Post by gathura on Nov 3, 2011 20:36:25 GMT 3
I am actually for the invasion.
Other options would have just led to things spiralling out of control. Today its a couple of tourists, tomorrow its any well dressed poor soul in the wrong place at the wrong time. Plus it does go beyond national pride, simply that zone of instability in Somalia spreading further than we could anticipate would hit home in ways we would probably regret.
However my plan B would be to develop a special branch of the infamous (or famous depending on which side of the rungu you were on) GSU, mixed in with highly experienced independant military teams to patrol those parts of the border. In essence a guerlla type force that can combat the small mobile bandits. probably a cheaper option of you think about it, small mobile teams, linked via whatever lines of communication they don't have, or cant moniter, throw in some air support (mix of gunships and jets) for the quick chase/kill. But I suspect after a few months of the whole big play, our miltary will shift towards such tactics, this invasion seems like a big show to emphasize we are not powerless
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Post by job on Nov 3, 2011 20:44:56 GMT 3
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Post by einstein on Nov 3, 2011 21:03:12 GMT 3
Jakaswanga,You did not have to resort to name callings. Has it ever occurred to you that you are the one and only member of this board who is pained so much by my handle? I think this is at least the third time that you are dragging my handle into your rants. Do you feel intimidated by that handle? If I changed the handle to 'Toddler' or #b#'Kondoo'#/b# or '#b#Nyang'au'#/b# or anything else but NOT #b#'Einstein',#/b# #color=Purple#would you get back your peace of mind#/color#? Have you ever heard of an ailment termed #b#'Inferiority Complex'? #/b#It is a feeling that one is less important, less clever or less admired than other people# This feeling makes some people #b#aggressive #/b#and others shy# People who suffer from it, more so the aggressive type, always try to go to great lengths to prove their #b#self-worth #/b#even when it is uncalled for# Okay, I will from now henceforth leave you alone as per your request# But that means, the reverse also applies# Besides that, I #b#SHALL#/b# leave #b#ALL#/b# your posts alone and you #b#MUST #/b#also leave #b#ALL#/b# my posts alone# #b#May the admins and the Jukwaa membership be our witnesses! Amen!#/b## Einstein You are most welcome to leave all my posts. I on the other hand reserve my rights to engage in rebuttal or affirmation of anything you write openly on this forum! I don't do boycotts! why would I bother to be a member of a debating club if boycotting others opinions is my thing? But let me today explain to you and any other interested party why I have a thing with this einstein handle. You will notice how far from inferiority complex it will be. This will not be the last time I jest your handle. Here is the background. I first heard of Einstein in the form of Albert, from Mr.Mairura, a maths teacher who told us Albert Einstein was more important to humanity than Jesus Xristus. Now, we had heard of Jesus, and every sunday was Jesus praise day, but Albert Einstein? Mr. Mairura then wrote an equation on the board, the famous E=MCC! It meant nothing to us, but he insisted this simple equation had more meaning to humanity than God's son, and for the next four years he would be introducing us to the basics of it. I did not become a physicist as Mr. Mairura would have wanted, but I developed a life-long awe for atomic and nuclear physics, and her high priest Albert Einstein. The creator of limitless energy! A sun-god! So When I come across anybody or anything calling itself Einstein, and he she or it fails to enthrall me with whizzkid stuff, I do become furious with a tendency to downright nastiness. Just like some believers in certain religions do not take kindly to the sacrillege of their prophet's name, Jakaswanga does not like any Tom Dick and what-have-you calling themselves Einstein! That is a name reserved for genius! It is just that being secular, I do not issue fatwas!Do you now see why when I read some of your Jukwaa bests, I get pissed off? Yes, change that handle and I will have peace, or, give me E is equal to M times C-squared exposes on Jukwaa! No two ways about it! ?
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Nov 4, 2011 1:55:30 GMT 3
Folks:
After dozens of responses, running close to two hundred, and thousands of page views in the region of six thousand, I believe that we have had our say-for some of us a gazillion times.
It is time to move on from this particular thread.
I am therefore locking it and removing it as an announcement.
As the person who penned the digital essay which kicked off this heated debate, I want to say thank you to all your diverse views, especially those who disagreed vehemently with my position.
Onyango Oloo Jukwaa Administrator
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