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Post by gemagema on Mar 10, 2012 1:48:08 GMT 3
I see Muthaura's hand in all this. He has always been the mastermind...the master-schemer. He twisted Kibaki into being a witness of his through a written testimony at the Hague. He still expects Kibaki to do more...after all - he owes him.
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Mukwhasi
Full Member
Justice will live on ..
Posts: 180
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Post by Mukwhasi on Mar 10, 2012 6:35:27 GMT 3
Someone has realized that the best way to rattle RAO's inroad in mt Kenya is to ruffle feathers of kibaki supporters and besides what better excuse to extend Kibak'is term to July 2013 after the trials are ongoing and most of the evidence is bare.All this side shows are part of a larger game to deflect attention and do some kisirisiri stuff ,just look at the developments this week ,first it was the so called youths asking for the waki report/envelope ,the came the abirtrary naming of the police commision ,then charles kilonzi drama(who is out of town btw) ,and finaly kibaki now wants a march 2013 election ,why is it that now he pretentsd to respect the courts decision so much yet they have been disregarding court orders left and right?why?
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Post by kamalet on Mar 10, 2012 13:18:58 GMT 3
Anyone remember wikileaks?
My reading of the scanned documents in the Itumbi site indicates that these are actually intelligence briefs 'stolen' from some records within the BHC.
The claims of bad english do not render the document fake as it does not necessarily follow that merely because a document has been originated by an englishman, the grammar is necessarily correct. So this would be an unlikely reason for me to dismiss the document.
I will ignore the ODM analysis based on the use of the names Raila and Odinga.
The document is clearly an analytical piece intended for transmission to some mandarins in the higher echelons of the British government. It may not be exactly British official policy but the analysis and scenarios presented make it a case of creating a basis for decision making by the British in their relationships with Kenya.
My personal view is that the documents originate from the British government. However, they do NOT necessarily present official UK policy on Kenya - just options available for engaging with Kenya.
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Post by Onyango Oloo on Mar 10, 2012 14:03:45 GMT 3
Adongo:As one of Jukwaa's founder members, you KNOW that it is a definite NO-NO to expel human beings from their own sub-category to join some lower simian relatives. Plainly, you cannot and should not call people baboons, especially on Jukwaa. I have DEPORTED people from this forum for doing precisely that kind of uncalled for name calling. Let it not be said that I turned a blind eye to your foul language because you are my comrade and friend. Onyango Oloo Jukwaa Administrator
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Post by roughrider on Mar 10, 2012 15:06:27 GMT 3
Adongo;
I do not see how it can be concluded you called people baboons. An allegory is an allegory. I found it quite apt. Much the same way that I could say Snowball and Napoleon, the pig characters in George Orwell’s Animal Farm were designed to represent Russian leaders Lenin and Stalin respectively. A modern student might also observe similarity between these animal characters and present day politicians.
Boxer, the horse that 'works harder' would be Kenya's long suffering, underpaid worker.
But can we castigate Orwell for calling humans pigs? Or labelling workers as horses. We’d have to wipe off a lot of literary history…
I think one need to employ a certain level of intellectual finesse to distinguish between literary license and open insult.
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Post by barmasaiengkeiyo on Mar 10, 2012 21:44:12 GMT 3
This statement is the game changer! "The second letter was allegedly written on February 6, 2012 by Kenya Desk Officer Edward Inglett yet he left that post in 2011".....well, Livondo,Matsanga,Jeff Koinange didnt research well....
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Post by justfacts on Mar 11, 2012 18:46:00 GMT 3
All this are steps in a strategy that has up to now involved Prayer rallies take 2, Matsanga, Kibaki Tena Youth, K24- The Bench et al to shape public opinion. It is a must win battle for the 4 and they will employ all in their power to avoid the ICC. Their coffer is quite impressive and tribal loyalty is significant.
The tragedy is not many Kenyans are as enlightened as Jukwaa folk to see them for what they are and will fall for it hook line and sinker. Their domain is not this reasoned platform but most likely the vernacular FM stations, corner shop gossip spot and the local, equally misled opinion leaders like pastors and teachers. In this realm O4 innuendos and pleas are passed as factual news.
So in this game while all here may spot their mischievousness at first glance the message is not aimed at us but at Mashinani where the bulk of the votes lie and the politics is played out.
They have shown no qualms abusing the institution of religion or of parliament to peddles lies. As the poll/court day nears the tempo will only go up.
The silver lining is that, they have, till now outed themselves for lack of finesse by using characters like Keff Joinange, the dubious Matsanga and a seemingly class 6 drop out who drafted the recent letter.........And by their own selves by .....well ....offering to return of IDP land!
My take is they do not purposefully go out to recruit such a lacking cast to do their bidding from out of sheer laziness.
It is because it is hard to recruit faithful champions to a cause shrouded with lies.
I expect more propaganda as i do more blunders.
While a goat that has run to the end of its tether can only continue running in circles......A lie repeated often enough becomes truth in the minds of the fatigued and unquestioning loyalists.
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Post by job on Mar 11, 2012 20:00:34 GMT 3
All this are steps in a strategy that has up to now involved Prayer rallies take 2, Matsanga, Kibaki Tena Youth, K24- The Bench et al to shape public opinion. It is a must win battle for the 4 and they will employ all in their power to avoid the ICC. Their coffer is quite impressive and tribal loyalty is significant.The tragedy is not many Kenyans are as enlightened as Jukwaa folk to see them for what they are and will fall for it hook line and sinker. Their domain is not this reasoned platform but most likely the vernacular FM stations, corner shop gossip spot and the local, equally misled opinion leaders like pastors and teachers. In this realm O4 innuendos and pleas are passed as factual news. So in this game while all here may spot their mischievousness at first glance the message is not aimed at us but at Mashinani where the bulk of the votes lie and the politics is played out. They have shown no qualms abusing the institution of religion or of parliament to peddles lies. As the poll/court day nears the tempo will only go up. [size=3The silver lining is that, they have, till now outed themselves for lack of finesse by using characters like Keff Joinange, the dubious Matsanga and a seemingly class 6 drop out who drafted the recent letter.........And by their own selves by .....well ....offering to return of IDP land [/size]! My take is they do not purposefully go out to recruit such a lacking cast to do their bidding from out of sheer laziness. It is because it is hard to recruit faithful champions to a cause shrouded with lies. I expect more propaganda as i do more blunders. While a goat that has run to the end of its tether can only continue running in circles......[size=3A lie repeated often enough becomes truth in the minds of the fatigued and unquestioning[/size] loyalists. [/quote] The Ocampo 4 have deliberately orchestrated a multi-pronged anti-ICC, anti-West, anti-Odinga strategy that involves - as you aptly note - media (K24, the People, Citizen, NTV), prayer rallies, propagandist hirelings (Matsanga, Ngunyi, Kuria et al), parliamentary hitmen (the-Kilonzo-duo, Duale, Sonko, Nguyai et al), insider government bureaucrats (NSIS, AG Githu Muigai, Vice President Kalonzo Musyoka - the shuttle diplomat, Treasury and CBK - facilitators of legal financing, Head of Civil Service et al), fake pollsters - to sway and push opinion against ICC (Octopus et al) and political anarchists (insider destabilizers of ODM and KANU).....all in an effort to politicize and scuttle the forward-going ICC process. The recent weeks have seen an escalation of sheer verve to up the tempo. Grapevine is rife with talk of this flurry being motivated by wind of sealed (secret) arrest warrants and laying of groundwork for asset freezes, seizures and forefeits. In particular, snooping of assets held in Britain by a wealthy Kenyan aristocracy has invited direct and personal anti-British, anti-White attacks from one Uhuru Muigai Kenyatta. Something of tectonic proportions is cooking underneath the realm of Kenya's discourse. Some pre-emptive fightback is already underway. The platform of launching these attacks has lately been media and parliament. As you note, the panicky villains have gone to the extent of forging letters purportedly written by the United Kingdom government. Britain is probably aware the Ocampo 4 want to use the pretext of "prayer rallies" to escalate the anti-British, anti-ICC, local nationalistic attacks directly and dramatically through public megaphones. The same script used by Robert Mugabe in Zimbabwe! The same message advocated by former Mugabe propagandist David Matsanga! If a lie repeated often becomes truth in the minds of gullible people, then the same Ocampo 4 should brace for what they dismiss as "lies" being repeated on a daily basis within the courtroom of ICC's Trial Chamber; as soon as Trials commence in May. That would essentially countermand any prayer rally lies.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 12, 2012 1:53:14 GMT 3
Adongo:As one of Jukwaa's founder members, you KNOW that it is a definite NO-NO to expel human beings from their own sub-category to join some lower simian relatives. Plainly, you cannot and should not call people baboons, especially on Jukwaa. I have DEPORTED people from this forum for doing precisely that kind of uncalled for name calling. Let it not be said that I turned a blind eye to your foul language because you are my comrade and friend. Onyango Oloo Jukwaa Administrator Oloo,That is actually a story from the Standard Newspaper. I did not add a word to it. It is actually a hilarious story about these baboons that assemble everyday in some cave for some kind of a meeting. This is real and there are pictures of the baboons leaving "parliament". Some smart guy, not me, dubbed the gathering a "parliamentary session". Nowhere in my post did I refer to Kenyan M.Ps as baboons. I wouldn't want to do that not just for the dignity of the M.Ps but may be also for the dignity of the baboons. Who knows how they would feel about being compared to Kenyan M.Ps. I don't want those amigos mad with me. Not right now. The thing I like about the story and the similarity it has with our parliament is that the baboons seem very committed to their parliament. They attend it at least and yet nobody can actually tell us what they come up with there. It seems the frolocking tourists invading the caves cannot comprehend the discourse going on in this parliament. They are unable to make sense of it rather than take pictures of the M.Ps. I think our parliament works the same way. Many times we and the media assembled there cannot make up what is cooking in our own parliament and in this case I was referring to the forged papers about the ICC case. One would have expected at least one M.P there to ask for the authenticity of the document. None of them did and they soon started acting as this was gospel truth. That is scary. I was thinking if this document was taken to the other parliament in the caves may be some M.P would have asked a few questions. So the similarities of the two parliaments is not about the M.Ps in both houses but more about the "substance" going on in there. I understand that as a moderator you have to be fair and I know there has been a lot of pressure to also discipline the adongos. I am fine with that and I think I respect the board enough to take responsibility for any transgressions. In this case I see none. I could be wrong but I understand your job.
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Post by b6k on Mar 12, 2012 7:31:31 GMT 3
Hehehe. Priceless tale that! It seems some cheeky Standard reporter believed he could get away with changing the collective noun for baboons from a "congress" to a "parliament" of baboons. Kweli Kenyans are fed up with the political class. OO, the guillotine may have to remain unused for this perceived infraction. Besides if Adongo goes how will we know facts are stubborn things?
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Post by senoir on Mar 13, 2012 6:00:55 GMT 3
the mps who pretend determined to debate the forged icc letter beat a 180 and are now heading home. I wonder whp orevailed on them to let the matter rest. Is it because kenyans saw through the whole plot or is it because the pm was not going to take this lying down. Nobody wanted to move the motion coz they know someone would be coming after them to prove where they got the document from. This immunity that these mps enjoy in parliament needs to be checked, they cannot be allowed to use parlament to settle personal scores through divisive politics.
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Post by kamalet on Mar 13, 2012 21:22:51 GMT 3
Anyone remember wikileaks? My reading of the scanned documents in the Itumbi site indicates that these are actually intelligence briefs 'stolen' from some records within the BHC. The claims of bad english do not render the document fake as it does not necessarily follow that merely because a document has been originated by an englishman, the grammar is necessarily correct. So this would be an unlikely reason for me to dismiss the document. I will ignore the ODM analysis based on the use of the names Raila and Odinga. The document is clearly an analytical piece intended for transmission to some mandarins in the higher echelons of the British government. It may not be exactly British official policy but the analysis and scenarios presented make it a case of creating a basis for decision making by the British in their relationships with Kenya. My personal view is that the documents originate from the British government. However, they do NOT necessarily present official UK policy on Kenya - just options available for engaging with Kenya. When I wrote this, I had not imagined how this "phoney" would morph into a major diplomatc and political hot potato. The fact that the British have deemed it necessary to send som low ranking parliamentarian to come and deal with the matter obviously shows the seriousness this matter is being given by the UK For a document that was a fake to get this much attention it just does not add up. I am beginning to think that the assessment I gave it as a an intelligence analysis of options available to the UK government rather than policy already adopted seems to be holding. However the fact that there would be such options being discussed is embarrassing enough for the UK government and the mere denials that it was a fake (and the ardent support of known ODM psycophants) tells m a lot. The Speaker may just about help hold the fires away from the house and to a commitee - but then that committee is not exactly that friendly. Hang in there guys!
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 14, 2012 23:50:24 GMT 3
Anyone remember wikileaks? My reading of the scanned documents in the Itumbi site indicates that these are actually intelligence briefs 'stolen' from some records within the BHC. The claims of bad english do not render the document fake as it does not necessarily follow that merely because a document has been originated by an englishman, the grammar is necessarily correct. So this would be an unlikely reason for me to dismiss the document. I will ignore the ODM analysis based on the use of the names Raila and Odinga. The document is clearly an analytical piece intended for transmission to some mandarins in the higher echelons of the British government. It may not be exactly British official policy but the analysis and scenarios presented make it a case of creating a basis for decision making by the British in their relationships with Kenya. My personal view is that the documents originate from the British government. However, they do NOT necessarily present official UK policy on Kenya - just options available for engaging with Kenya. When I wrote this, I had not imagined how this "phoney" would morph into a major diplomatc and political hot potato. The fact that the British have deemed it necessary to send som low ranking parliamentarian to come and deal with the matter obviously shows the seriousness this matter is being given by the UK For a document that was a fake to get this much attention it just does not add up. I am beginning to think that the assessment I gave it as a an intelligence analysis of options available to the UK government rather than policy already adopted seems to be holding. However the fact that there would be such options being discussed is embarrassing enough for the UK government and the mere denials that it was a fake (and the ardent support of known ODM psycophants) tells m a lot. The Speaker may just about help hold the fires away from the house and to a commitee - but then that committee is not exactly that friendly. Hang in there guys! Kamale,You seriously think officials of UK government would write up an "analysis" of "options" complete with wrong spelling of so many words, names of alleged officials mispelt, terrible grammar in some instances, some officials named who were not even in office at the alleged times etc. The funny one is when they said "light now" instead of "right now". I know security agents work late hours and sometimes drink way too much coffee (and god knows what else), but I doubt they would be so clumsy and just outrightly incompetent even in putting together a piece in their own language. This is a fraud and a big embarrassment to Uhuru and his mob. The idea that some "low ranking parliamentarian" has been sent to deal with the matter is actually bad news for the fraudsters. I don't think the "low ranking parliamentarian" is coming to plead for mercy for the UK government. I suspect he is coming to demand answers and that action be taken to deal with such criminal forgeries. I find it amusing that you think moving this matter to a parliamentary committee by the speaker will "help hold the fires". Moving this thing to a committee means its status as a forged document becomes a matter of public focus complete with NSIS chaps coming to shed any light. As we know the NSIS has already dismissed the document as fake but naturally this is the kind of thing they would rather have handled in the alleyways to protect their boy, Uhuru. Now Gichangi has been summoned by the committee. Do you think he is going to lie to save Uhuru? I doubt it. He is in a bind. Do you think the not "so friendly" committee will muzzle the evidence? I don't think they have such powers. So yeah, BRING IT ON. And you are right to ask your boys to "hang in there". They might need to hang on to their pants because the winds are going to be brutal. Be careful what you ask for. Let's compare notes on this in a week or so.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 15, 2012 17:52:16 GMT 3
And here is Githu doing the white wash. Kenya police investigating hacking of ICC witnesses? Please. Just take the complaint from the ICC and let them handle the matter. We have cases of ICC indicted suspects and their allies forging documents left, right and centre and roaming the country issuing threats and spreading all sorts of lies about the ICC process and we haven't seen the Kenyan government raise a finger. Why now try to pretend to the ICC that the Kenyan government is interested in protecting witnesses or even ensuring the integrity of the cases is protected. Eti ongoing investigations! Who are are you kidding? Here is what I am talking about: www.nation.co.ke/News/politics/Kenya+AG+orders+probe+on+Ocampo+witnesses+claim/-/1064/1366944/-/xixlr2z/-/index.html
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Post by job on Mar 15, 2012 18:35:01 GMT 3
Mr Moreno-Ocampo (complained) that there was “hacking of email accounts of a person of interest” to his office...the ICC prosecutor has also complained that there has been intimidation of ICC witnesses. These are the clearest signs that individual liberties of some of the accused may be at stake; with real potential for arrests being made upon commencement of trial. There have been allegations about a human rights advocate based in Eldoret - Ken Wafula (thought to be an interlocutor for the OTP's investigators) having had his e-mail account hacked - exposing correspondence with officials of some foreign Embassies. This matter may eventually take a life of its own. More recently, David Matsanga has demonstrated the extent at which some of these accused (camp Uhuru) are willing to go in their witness-fishing expeditions in foreign capitals. Githu Muigai is paying lip service to when facts and records reveal his Departments' complete unwillingness to investigate. It's not just about will, does he even have the capacity and wherewithal to track down and put the culprits behind the dock? Be the judge.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 15, 2012 23:21:18 GMT 3
Mr Moreno-Ocampo (complained) that there was “hacking of email accounts of a person of interest” to his office...the ICC prosecutor has also complained that there has been intimidation of ICC witnesses. These are the clearest signs that individual liberties of some of the accused may be at stake; with real potential for arrests being made upon commencement of trial. There have been allegations about a human rights advocate based in Eldoret - Ken Wafula (thought to be an interlocutor for the OTP's investigators) having had his e-mail account hacked - exposing correspondence with officials of some foreign Embassies. This matter may eventually take a life of its own. More recently, David Matsanga has demonstrated the extent at which some of these accused (camp Uhuru) are willing to go in their witness-fishing expeditions in foreign capitals. Githu Muigai is paying lip service to when facts and records reveal his Departments' complete unwillingness to investigate. It's not just about will, does he even have the capacity and wherewithal to track down and put the culprits behind the dock? Be the judge. job,Githu Muigai is out of his air space. He is doing his job of protecting his real "clients". The ICC will have to protect the victims and witnesses pretty much on their own. That is why this cases are at the ICC. But this thing is getting a little too close for comfort for some people. Very soon they are going to up the prayers to even higher gods if they don't watch out. Here we go: www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000054159&cid=4¤tPage=1
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Post by roughrider on Mar 16, 2012 13:13:14 GMT 3
The suspects are inviting arrest warrants. The conditions for issuing of summonses were clear.
At the confirmation hearings it was clear that ICC judges were carefully studying news from Kenya. Judge Ekaterina specifically warned against whipping ethnic emotions after watching the heroics when Uhuruto returned from the first mentions.
When Sureta Chana relayed the fears of victims after Charles Keter had gone to declare that they knew who was cooperating with the ICC, again the judges issued stern warnings.
Now, in my view, it is a matter of when rather than if these warrants will be issued. There is every possibility that sealed warrants have already been prepared.
Make no mistake: we will effect citizens arrests if and when there are warrants out.
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Post by mzee on Mar 16, 2012 14:27:10 GMT 3
RR, this thing is no longer a movie and if it were it would never end.
It seems to me that the Hague boys are now resigned to fate. I'm sure that lawyers are drafting wills as we speak for uhuru and ruto might appear at hearing and never come back. Their hour of fame and tribal prayer rallies are over.
You might have noticed that they have little to say since Railas utterance in Brussels. Things are thick. The more they say now, the worse they make their situation. Take note that muthamakis promised comprehensive statement on Railas utterance is stillborn. The fear of incarceration is looming.
I tend to agree with you that there might be a sealed warrant of arrest out there courtesy of judge Trendy
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Post by mzee on Mar 16, 2012 14:28:14 GMT 3
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Post by deyiengs on Mar 16, 2012 18:57:48 GMT 3
RR, this thing is no longer a movie and if it were it would never end. It seems to me that the Hague boys are now resigned to fate. I'm sure that lawyers are drafting wills as we speak for uhuru and ruto might appear at hearing and never come back. Their hour of fame and tribal prayer rallies are over. You might have noticed that they have little to say since Railas utterance in Brussels. Things are thick. The more they say now, the worse they make their situation. Take note that muthamakis promised comprehensive statement on Railas utterance is stillborn. The fear of incarceration is looming. I tend to agree with you that there might be a sealed warrant of arrest out there courtesy of judge Trendy Mzee they have prayer ralies planned for this weekend. So Uhuru still has an avenue to issue a comprehensive statement.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 16, 2012 19:04:40 GMT 3
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Post by tnk on Mar 16, 2012 21:04:25 GMT 3
what? i thought, the police were busy with diplomatic escort and had no time for arresting anyone
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Post by nereah on Mar 17, 2012 9:37:29 GMT 3
here is a pictorial from jaluo.com,my first and only contribution to this powerful thread.its sums up my thoughts.
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 18, 2012 16:55:31 GMT 3
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 22, 2012 15:48:07 GMT 3
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