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Post by senoir on Mar 9, 2012 0:03:52 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Mar 9, 2012 0:17:45 GMT 3
Saw this on NTV (I think) tonight. A British High Commission official dismissed the document & allegations as "preposterous". Apparently the English used within the document was so pathetic it basically outted itself as a forgery.
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Post by senoir on Mar 9, 2012 0:20:00 GMT 3
I believe the prosecuting judge has said several times before that there was no evidence tying the president to the pev. I also know it was said that meetings took place at the state. Someone is misleading the public.
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Post by tnk on Mar 9, 2012 1:05:39 GMT 3
very thin plot so transparent that from one side you see into next week, and from the other side, you see into last month perhaps this can be traced back to the FOUR at ICC (note FOUR = friends of uhuru ruto) i.e only way to get kibaki support is to light a fire under his seat. lets see how that pans out |
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Post by senoir on Mar 9, 2012 1:11:42 GMT 3
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Post by furaha on Mar 9, 2012 1:33:38 GMT 3
my immediate impression is that the authenticity of the UK communication leaves a lot to be desired. Very thin indeed and very conveniently pulling together a number of recent developments, e.g. Hague's visit to Kenya, in an effort to weave a 'credible' plot.
and why do all these developments follow hot on each others' heels: the QC's allegations against the ICC, Matsanga's questionable revelations about 'witness number 4' and now 'leaked' British documents? smacks of efforts to fool Kenyans and to prepare the ground for non-cooperation with the ICC by the government.
Pulling in the president and suggesting that he might be indicted fits with such a plot. Its authors probably believe that Kenyans will rally around their president and will agree to hold the ICC at bay, also for the four who already stand accused.
As mentioned earlier in this thread, there is no indication that there is any hard evidence against the President. He is said to have held a meeting at State House with "Mungiki", but having a meeting with an illegal criminal gang is not a crime against humanity...
The only person who may know the full extent of the president's (non-) involvement is one Muthaura.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Mar 9, 2012 1:36:46 GMT 3
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 9, 2012 1:51:29 GMT 3
With these kinds of friends people like Uhuru are going to end up in jail. These is an obscene act of forgery. To imagine that an M.P would bring this kind of rubbish into the National Assembly for discussion is itself an indictment on the kind of peoplel kina Uhuru are working with. And we had M.Ps calling for Kenya to end relations with the UK on the basis of this kind of upuzu. How low can our country go? These M.Ps make parliament looks like a zoo with animals on steroid to help them misbehave.
It is one thing to use these forgeries for local pumbavu politics that the ICC chaps are good at like the forged nonsense with Nyongo's name but moving the same thing to this level is mindboggling.
I think Raila whose name has been cited in the forged rubbish and his supporters should insist that the document be produced and discussed in parliament. I think it helps to shed some lights into the evil activities of the Hague boys.
Why this much desperation? It would appear the purpose here is to scare Kibaki into breaking ties with the ICC and saving the raw behind of the indicted suspected mass murderers. One would think they can do a better job at it than this shallow outright ujinga of theirs. Na bado! What are they going to do when the hearing date is announced and comes close.
Like we have said many times, these Ocampo boys are their own worst enemies. They are scared to death about facing charges and yet they keep yelling everyday about how innocent they are. Then why piss in your pants all the time. These people know what they did better than any of us.
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 9, 2012 2:01:07 GMT 3
What is going on is obvious as yet another form of reckless conduct by those facing ICC charges through their shameless surrogates in Parliament to try and create an atmosphere of discontent as "victims" all in the while the real victims of PEV have yet to see justice done in any of their cases. The President must put a stop to this nonsense. The PM has nothing to do with this. Parliament is far too important an institution to be shamelessly used by these idiotic MPs and their shameless antics designed only to serve their masters and not the country's interests. All of us should at least agree as much. |
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 9, 2012 2:31:47 GMT 3
What is going on is obvious as yet another form of reckless conduct by those facing ICC charges through their shameless surrogates in Parliament to try and create an atmosphere of discontent as "victims" all in the while the real victims of PEV have yet to see justice done in any of their cases. The President must put a stop to this nonsense. The PM has nothing to do with this. Parliament is far too important an institution to be shamelessly used by these idiotic MPs and their shameless antics designed only to serve their masters and not the country's interests. All of us should at least agree as much. As primitive as many of our M.Ps are in concoting such reckless fallacies so easy to detect as rubbish the greatest culprit is our media. You cook up something like this with such obvious lies in any environment where there is at least a semblance of competent journalism you would get into a lot of trouble. An intern journalist with any basic skills in the trade would cut through this thing like a hot knife through butter. Any competent media would get this document look at the obvious concotions, read through the deliberete insertions like, let's get Kibaki, let's get our man Raila in office and let's get rid of the "popular" Uhuru and Ruto and expose the fraudsters. This is fraud and forgery involving Kenya's integrity and its dealings with other countries. It has to be treated with the seriousness it deserves. That is why I think Kenyans should demand serious investigations on this matter, find out the conspirators spining this nonsense, establish their motives and let them be held accountable for their lies and political games. This kind of stuff is very dangerous for the country. This must start with M.Ps demanding that this matter be discussed as a matter of national importance. I am sure both sides would like to get to the bottom of the issue. If Kilonzo wanst a debate on this matter he should get one and let these fraudelent criminals be exposed for what they are. |
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 9, 2012 2:56:18 GMT 3
All MP's should be SACKED by their CONSTITUENCY .. since they have no clue on what their Job descriptions intel- shame on them, IDP's are still in Camps with no food or water, living in horrible condition, then you see Monsanto bringing in contaminated "GM" toxic Maize and cotton seeds as they MP's sleep without any care in the world.. THEY ALL NEED TO BE SACKED!! (DOESN'T THE NEW CONSTITUTION STATE THAT CITIZENS CAN RECALL THEIR MP'S?? IT IS TIME KENYANS WAKE UP AND START ACTING.. [/size] |
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Post by Omwenga on Mar 9, 2012 3:12:36 GMT 3
What is going on is obvious as yet another form of reckless conduct by those facing ICC charges through their shameless surrogates in Parliament to try and create an atmosphere of discontent as "victims" all in the while the real victims of PEV have yet to see justice done in any of their cases. The President must put a stop to this nonsense. The PM has nothing to do with this. Parliament is far too important an institution to be shamelessly used by these idiotic MPs and their shameless antics designed only to serve their masters and not the country's interests. All of us should at least agree as much. As primitive as many of our M.Ps are in concoting such reckless fallacies so easy to detect as rubbish the greatest culprit is our media. You cook up something like this with such obvious lies in any environment where there is at least a semblance of competent journalism you would get into a lot of trouble. An intern journalist with any basic skills in the trade would cut through this thing like a hot knife through butter. Any competent media would get this document look at the obvious concotions, read through the deliberete insertions like, let's get Kibaki, let's get our man Raila in office and let's get rid of the "popular" Uhuru and Ruto and expose the fraudsters. This is fraud and forgery involving Kenya's integrity and its dealings with other countries. It has to be treated with the seriousness it deserves. That is why I think Kenyans should demand serious investigations on this matter, find out the conspirators spining this nonsense, establish their motives and let them be held accountable for their lies and political games. This kind of stuff is very dangerous for the country. This must start with M.Ps demanding that this matter be discussed as a matter of national importance. I am sure both sides would like to get to the bottom of the issue. If Kilonzo wanst a debate on this matter he should get one and let these fraudelent criminals be exposed for what they are. I agree with everything you have said here and must say there is an emerging urgency to put pressure on the media to be more responsible than merely looking out for their bottom lines. This is, of course, a very serious matter that we hope is to be followed up along the lines you suggest but it certainly must not be allowed to happen again in Parliament. This is the kind of reckless conduct no immunity should apply to those engaged in it and would love to see them made the guinea pigs to try the theory in the Supreme Court. The damage they are doing is not one peculiar to an individual or individuals but to the nation as a whole and that's what is reprehensible and unacceptable about this. |
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 9, 2012 3:43:04 GMT 3
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Post by reporter911 on Mar 9, 2012 4:12:21 GMT 3
Adongo ;D ;D I just think they are asleep, busy fighting for HUMONGOUS pay CHECKS while IDPs are rotting in camps.. and busy setting the stage for MORE CLASHES IN KENYA next elections? it looks bleak.. how can they even discuss KIBAKI AND ICC ? when most kenyans followed the ICC proceedings closely and there was nowhere if we all recall where KIBAKI'S name was mentioned.. WHAT nasty GAMES ARE MEMBERS OF PARLIAMENT PLAYING AT? THOSE WHO BROUGHT THIS FALSEHOOD IN PARLIAMENT SHOULD FACE DISCIPLINARY ACTION OR BE SACKED. |
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Post by b6k on Mar 9, 2012 7:25:16 GMT 3
I've just watched Citizen's take on the Kilonzo dossier & it's very different from NTV's. Unlike NTV they haven't challenged the authenticity of the document & present as fact. That the gist of the dossier is quite shallow doesn't seem to matter to this broadcaster. It's being sold as an attack on Kenya's integrity.
This is why I find the whole conspiracy against ODM by the media hard to swallow. Each media house seems to follow it's own script. Citizen seems way out there on this one.
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Post by roughrider on Mar 9, 2012 10:08:54 GMT 3
I concur with sentiment already expressed here.
This forgery is unsurprising. It is easy to present such things in parliament because of ‘parliamentary immunity’. Several points can be made immediately:
1. Some or all of the ICC four have decided to prepare an exit strategy: the first shot was QC Kay, then David Matsanga, then a group of youth led by Khamati and Semelango were paraded to make unrealistic and misguided demands about the Waki envelop and now this ‘expose’ about the British and their so called strategy. These efforts appear carefully coordinated and have been unleashed almost simultaneously. Who is pressing the buttons? The idea, it appears, is to do two things: First, reinforce a perception that the ICC is somehow unfair, a show case and deliberately going after the four at the behest of foreigners working with local co-conspirators. Secondly, they want to rope Kibaki and the 2012 question into the mix. If they convince Kibaki and his handlers that he is a target, he may veer towards intolerance, impunity and dictatorship over the next few months (notice that he has already shown this streak with the unilateral police commission appointment).
2. The ultimate objective of these efforts is to prepare ground for Kenya’s withdrawal from the ICC, and consequent non cooperation over the cases at the Hague. This view must be the result of impeccable legal advice to Uhuru and co that their cases are ‘more difficult’ than anticipated and will be dealt with ‘much faster’ than anticipated. It suffices to say that no lawyer, QC or not, can provide a cast iron assurance that they will extricate Uhuru and Ruto from justice at the Hague.
3. Mzee Kibaki is being fed a clear falsehood. That Raila Odinga, as president, will deliver him to the ICC. Or, conversely save him from the ghosts of PEV. (Indeed a dispassionate argument can show the Kibaki and his legacy is safer with Raila at the helm that for another day). This falsehood is supposed to push the president towards endorsing and actively installing the Uhuru and Ruto axis in 2012. The reality is that if there is evidence of Kibaki’s facilitating the crimes against humanity in Kenya then nobody can save him. Ultimately an Uhuru and Ruto presidency will serve to postpone Kenya’s take off, re-entrench impunity, exalt tribalism and make Kenya a pariah state. Kibaki’s pretensions about a legacy will be wiped off in an instant as the new constitution is repeatedly gang raped by the Uhuru-Ruto group.
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Post by mintos on Mar 9, 2012 10:33:48 GMT 3
Could sambady kindly post the document here if possible please?
So that we could read and "chambua" it as well?
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Post by samson on Mar 9, 2012 12:56:10 GMT 3
Something stinks in this story.why? If the west is using hague case to fix local politics it can only hurt the supposed beneficialy,if O4 are cooking up things 2 get sympathy, someone shd expose the tricks.
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Post by phil on Mar 9, 2012 14:37:25 GMT 3
Allegations made against UK in Kenyan Parliament
09 March 2012
Text of diplomatic note sent to Kenyan Foreign Ministry
The British High Commission sent the following diplomatic note to the Kenyan Foreign Ministry today:
The British High Commission presents its compliments to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Republic of Kenya and has the honour to convey its concerns about allegations made in the Kenyan Parliament on 8 March against the United Kingdom.
The policy of Her Majesty’s Government is not to comment on leaked documents. However, having seen copies of the documents in question, we would like to assure the Ministry of Foreign Affairs that these are not genuine. Evidence of this includes both the misleading and implausible content and a plethora of spelling and grammatical mistakes.
We are concerned that this is a smear campaign which aims to destabilise our bilateral relations and to damage the political atmosphere ahead of the Kenyan elections. As the British Government has made clear in both public and private, the UK has no interest in any particular outcome in the General Election and is not backing any particular candidates or parties. We support transparent, credible, peaceful elections which produce results that the people of Kenya, of whatever political persuasion, accept as the legitimate expression of the will of the people. We are and will remain non partisan.
We do not intend to comment further on the issue of documents, nor will we undertake a running public commentary on this unscrupulous agenda.
We wish to reiterate that we have great respect for Kenya and have a good relationship with the Kenyan government and the Kenyan people. We trust that the Government of Kenya will resist these attempts to sour our relationship, and its negative impact on Kenya in this crucial year.
The British High Commission avails itself of this opportunity to renew to the Ministry of Foreign Affairs the assurances of its highest consideration. |
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Post by wafwaf1 on Mar 9, 2012 16:05:52 GMT 3
I cannot believe the extend at which some individuals in this country are going to link ODM (read RAO) in any negative scenario. The man is practically under siege! I wonder how much money has and is being spent to paint him and his party in the negative. The media houses are not even reporting what the guy is doing in belgium Brussels while some MPs are quite ready to hang him for being away from parliament! He must really be a threat, this guy?
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 9, 2012 19:24:16 GMT 3
I cannot believe the extend at which some individuals in this country are going to link ODM (read RAO) in any negative scenario. The man is practically under siege! I wonder how much money has and is being spent to paint him and his party in the negative. The media houses are not even reporting what the guy is doing in belgium Brussels while some MPs are quite ready to hang him for being away from parliament! He must really be a threat, this guy? This thing is backfiring terribly for the crooks as we speak. Stupidity has limits. |
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Post by barmasaiengkeiyo on Mar 9, 2012 21:20:09 GMT 3
ahah...this is clearly the work of Kony associate David Matsanga
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Post by sang2000 on Mar 9, 2012 22:08:37 GMT 3
ahah...this is clearly the work of Kony associate David Matsanga That's the conclusion I arrived at as well. It sounds very much like Matsanga's work. Having failed to convince anyone at "the Bench", he has resorted to forgery. |
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Post by job on Mar 9, 2012 22:30:34 GMT 3
The tenor of the scam (forged Matsanga-esque letter) is eerily similar to the tone of these previous rantings of the ICC accused below:
[/b] [/i][/blockquote] [/quote]
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Post by adongo23456 on Mar 9, 2012 22:54:42 GMT 3
Sang & Job
In is one thing for outright criminals and the Kony associates to play political games, spread lies and even keep inciting intolerance in the country but when the same forces are working inside the the National Assembly of our country that is beyond criminal. It is a threat to the nation that cannot be taken lightly.
Worse still when the criminal elements blantantly forge documents and use the name of the head of state, Mwai Kibaki as the good guy who is under threat from ICC and other forces and that of the PM, Raila Odinga as the bad guy being helped by the alleged elements it is obvious the motive is to rip the country apart to serve the interests of the criminals.
We also know the forgery was an attempt to glorify individuals facing charges of crimes against humanity in Kenya as some kind of victims of this falsified conspiracy. These are not accidents. They are pieces of a plan. If these are not the works of the devil, I don't what is.
And it gets worse. The criminals have also tried to create enmity between Kenya and other countries specifically the UK and by their action has brought the country to ridicule as a place where common criminals and hoodlums can get a hold of the National Assembly for mischief. Remember M.Ps were already screaming for Kenya to break diplomatic ties with the UK based on these falsehoods.
If Kibaki was a president worth paying attention to he would have publicly warned such elements not to embarrass the country and the institutions of the state by such criminal activities. But this is the guy who gave us the Artur brothers to serve his interests. What else is new?
In fact by now the DPP would have ordered the complete investigation of the forgery to determine those behind such nonsense, establish their motives and arrest the criminals involved.
Instead Kibaki whose name was used in the criminal stupidity of the fraudsters wil pretend he is not aware of what is going on. Why? Most likely because it is in his best interest to do so. People would not engage in such treachery if they did not expect sympathy from the president.
In my view this is an excellent opportunity to go after these fraudsaters and expose their political agenda. It is not up to the UK to fight such blantant forgeries. It is our business as a country to do so. I expect the PM, whose name was directly sighted in the forged documents and who is the target of the attacks to address the matter fully in a press conference as soon as he is back in the country.
You don't let criminals like these run loose in the country. I also expect M.Ps to pursue this matter in parliament where it was raised.
M.Ps should demand a full discussion on the fraud and its implications.
Wetangula was ridiculously weak in his response and we can give him the benefit of doubt that he had not seen the documents. Now that he has, he should in his capacity as the minister of foreign affairs issue a comprehensive statement on the issue and demand a full investigation. It is his ministry which has been muddied with filth in the process.
As Kenyans we must demand an end to criminal elements turning our country into their playground where anything goes. It wrong. It is criminal and it is unacceptable. These people went too far in their already well known scheme and they have to be told to take their nonsense elsewhere.
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