Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 3:42:17 GMT 3
nowayhaha
can you please remove that stuff you've just posted and give us a link. This is because you have now messed up the settings on Jukwaa. Please take note of how nicely I'm asking you OK?
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Post by furaha on Apr 20, 2012 4:54:04 GMT 3
Reading between the lines, we are simply seeing the re-emergence of informal Kwekwe-like squads within the police force. These muthamaki squads may have little direct links to the chain of command in the formal police force. These intimidators and executioners may even be assembled from AP or the GSU.For those not in denial, it credibly looks like a new wave of intimidation, particularly in Central and around Mt. Kenya is currently underway. The whipping of those youth at Limuru...tear-gas, baton-beatings, and gun scares...the earlier burning of the Lari MPs vehicle ...and the terror meted upon Gitobu & son can't all be trivialized or laughed at. Job, I fear you are right. we could be seeing the re-emergence of a wave of extrajudicial killings. One problem is that no one seems to be making a serious effort to document suspect cases. Release Political Prisoners is doing some of it (see www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/70779-extrajudicial-killings-still-on-rpp-says ) but it probably lacks the scale and resources that were available to KNCHR when it documented 500 cases of extra-judicial killings of young Kikuyu youth suspected to be Mungiki which occurred in 2006/7. During PEV KNCHR played also a critical role in documenting similar killings throughout the country and it did the same in the case of Mount Elgon (2008). It seems that this is not happening now. Why? And how can we encourage a larger group of civil society organisations and others to muster the courage to start another documentation process? I realize the risks are considerable and that relatives of victims probably do not know where to turn to report cases. Of course the last place they would feel comfortable going is the police... And I am becoming more and more appalled with those on this board who openly question or even ridicule those who report what may be serious threats. With every day that goes by their blindness to Kenya's recent history seems to become starker. They prefer a situation in which victims are taken seriously only in case they report to the police station and bringing with them all evidence needed for immediate prosecution, freeing the police from the 'burden' of investigation. A world upside - down: victims required to do the job the police is getting paid to do.
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Post by Deleted on Apr 20, 2012 5:05:38 GMT 3
nowayhahacan you please remove that stuff you've just posted and give us a link. This is because you have now messed up the settings on Jukwaa. Please take note of how nicely I'm asking you OK? I appreciate that quick action on your part nowayhaha. Why not give us the link though?
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Post by mank on Apr 20, 2012 6:53:57 GMT 3
Kamale & Mank,
I am sure you guys remember how the government convinced some folks (probably you too) how Robert Ouko shot himself, then broke both his legs and then took himself to some mountain hill where he stupidly proceeded to set himself on fire. Now if only Ouko had reported all his problems to the police, we won't have that problem would we? Why are people behaving as if they just arrived from mars? Haven't we seen enough? Adongo, I would be the last person to be convinced that Ouko shot himself ... I approach these issues analytically, each on its own account. I remember exactly where I was when I first heard the news of Ouko going missing, and exactly what I thought were the prospects of finding him alive. I remember the thirst of info, and the analysis I would make with every new piece. So, no, not me! It would never make sense that Ouko did all those things to himself, neither does it make sense now that Imanyara went through the ordeal he describes ... at least not the way he describes it. I refuse to follow the whims that call a chorus of "guilty" without the least of critical analysis of information any time Uhuru is mentioned with anything bad.
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Post by merlin on Apr 20, 2012 9:01:26 GMT 3
Kamale & Mank,
I am sure you guys remember how the government convinced some folks (probably you too) how Robert Ouko shot himself, then broke both his legs and then took himself to some mountain hill where he stupidly proceeded to set himself on fire. Now if only Ouko had reported all his problems to the police, we won't have that problem would we? Why are people behaving as if they just arrived from mars? Haven't we seen enough? Adongo, I would be the last person to be convinced that Ouko shot himself ... I approach these issues analytically, each on its own account. I remember exactly where I was when I first heard the news of Ouko going missing, and exactly what I thought were the prospects of finding him alive. I remember the thirst of info, and the analysis I would make with every new piece. So, no, not me! It would never make sense that Ouko did all those things to himself, neither does it make sense now that Imanyara went through the ordeal he describes ... at least not the way he describes it. I refuse to follow the whims that call a chorus of "guilty" without the least of critical analysis of information any time Uhuru is mentioned with anything bad. Mank,You are an analytist and to me a mathematician and I like to pose a question to you which lingers in my mind though unable to come to a conclusion. It has to do with; I refuse to follow the whims that call a chorus of "guilty" without the least of critical analysis of information any time Uhuru is mentioned with anything bad. The proposition is as follows: I murder my mother; does this make me a murderer? I murder my mother and no-one finds out; does this make me a murderer? I murder my mother and been brought to court though the prosecutor makes a procedural fault which gets me off the hook; does this make me a murderer? I murder my mother and been brought to court though my file gets lost and there will no conviction; does this make me a murderer? I murder my mother and been brought to court and be convicted; does this make me a murderer?
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Post by mank on Apr 20, 2012 15:36:30 GMT 3
Adongo,
I would be the last person to be convinced that Ouko shot himself ... I approach these issues analytically, each on its own account. I remember exactly where I was when I first heard the news of Ouko going missing, and exactly what I thought were the prospects of finding him alive. I remember the thirst of info, and the analysis I would make with every new piece. So, no, not me!
It would never make sense that Ouko did all those things to himself, neither does it make sense now that Imanyara went through the ordeal he describes ... at least not the way he describes it. I refuse to follow the whims that call a chorus of "guilty" without the least of critical analysis of information any time Uhuru is mentioned with anything bad. Mank,
You are an analytist and to me a mathematician and I like to pose a question to you which lingers in my mind though unable to come to a conclusion. It has to do with; I refuse to follow the whims that call a chorus of "guilty" without the least of critical analysis of information any time Uhuru is mentioned with anything bad.
The proposition is as follows: I murder my mother; does this make me a murderer? I murder my mother and no-one finds out; does this make me a murderer? I murder my mother and been brought to court though the prosecutor makes a procedural fault which gets me off the hook; does this make me a murderer? I murder my mother and been brought to court though my file gets lost and there will no conviction; does this make me a murderer? I murder my mother and been brought to court and be convicted; does this make me a murderer?Merlin, I would say "YES" to every one of the questions. The questions back to you are: How would we know that you murdered your mother if the prosecutor makes a procedural fault which gets you off the hook, or if your file at the court gets lost and there is no conviction? Of course if you did murder your mother, you would know in yourself that you are a murder, no matter what else happens. Anyone who saw you commit the murder would also know the fact. Unfortunately if no one saw you, you would be the only one who would know that you are a murderer. The rest can only speculate. Ok ... I look forward to where this is headed.
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Post by nowayhaha on Apr 21, 2012 13:35:44 GMT 3
nowayhahacan you please remove that stuff you've just posted and give us a link. This is because you have now messed up the settings on Jukwaa. Please take note of how nicely I'm asking you OK? I appreciate that quick action on your part nowayhaha. Why not give us the link though? As per your request imgh.us/carjack.jpg
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euonyi
Full Member
Me, myself and I
Posts: 179
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Post by euonyi on Apr 21, 2012 21:21:26 GMT 3
What the h@## is this supposed to mean? Who makes these things?
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Post by furaha on Apr 22, 2012 15:22:14 GMT 3
In today's Sunday Nation Kwendo Opanga expresses doubts about Imanayara's alleged abduction. His chief ground seems to be that "the roads around State House teem with uniformed, plain-clothed, armed and unarmed security personnel and are believed to be closely watched". Indeed, I don't think anyone doubts that the area is closely watched. I do not know what happened to Imanyara but unless clear evidence to the contrary is presented, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Why? Many reasons but one in particular. I have not forgotten how in that very same area near State House activists Oscar Kinga'ra and JPO Oulu were gruesomely murdered on 5 March 2009. The two had been investigating extra-judicial killings while, not long before they were killed, they had met with Prof Philip Alston, the UN Rapporteur on the subject. And none of the security personnel in the State House area noticed anything suspicious, even though a vehicle with presidential security guards was said to have passed by the murder scene moments after the two were killed. Of course no one was ever arrested for the crimes. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Imanyaras+ordeal+Something+does+not+add+up++/-/440808/1391236/-/cg23qh/-/index.html
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Post by Titchaz on Apr 22, 2012 15:49:30 GMT 3
In today's Sunday Nation Kwendo Opanga expresses doubts about Imanayara's alleged abduction. His chief ground seems to be that "the roads around State House teem with uniformed, plain-clothed, armed and unarmed security personnel and are believed to be closely watched". Indeed, I don't think anyone doubts that the area is closely watched. I do not know what happened to Imanyara but unless clear evidence to the contrary is presented, I will give him the benefit of the doubt. Why? Many reasons but one in particular. I have not forgotten how in that very same area near State House activists Oscar Kinga'ra and JPO Oulu were gruesomely murdered on 5 March 2009. The two had been investigating extra-judicial killings while, not long before they were killed, they had met with Prof Philip Alston, the UN Rapporteur on the subject. And none of the security personnel in the State House area noticed anything suspicious, even though a vehicle with presidential security guards was said to have passed by the murder scene moments after the two were killed. Of course no one was ever arrested for the crimes. www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/Imanyaras+ordeal+Something+does+not+add+up++/-/440808/1391236/-/cg23qh/-/index.htmlTherein lies the whole reason for this not being 'seen'...It was done by the same state machinery that is meant to be protecting its citizens..... That is a fact that I cannot put past this government....
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