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Post by tnk on Jul 15, 2012 8:23:09 GMT 3
Ugandan Government denies Raila, Museveni oil dealThe government has denied allegations that President Museveni and some powerful individuals around him negotiated secret oil deals with Kenya’s Prime Minister Raila Odinga over costruction of an oil refinery.
The claim that Mr Museveni could have discussed the possibility of building the refinery in Kenya rather than Uganda in his meeting with Mr Odinga is contained in a new book, ‘Peeling Back the Mask’ by Mr Miguna Miguna, a former aide to the Kenyan prime minister. ..... the biggest trouble with these things called facts is that although they can be stubborn, very strong and credible (from reliable sources etc) its just until someone starts poking holes in them ....
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Post by gemagema on Jul 15, 2012 9:34:20 GMT 3
'Come Baby Come'! ..... blah blah.. 'Kiss my feet'How sleazy! How shallow! Ati coming from a self acclaimed whistleblower Truth be said, I was initially worried, very worried indeed about the effects MM's book would have on Raila and his presidency. But now I can breathe It seems like, and i have mentioned this in another thread, Miguna just doesnt have any destructive specifics on Raila, the man himself. Besides the messy corrupt greedy guys in the PMs office, and a wife high on power, Raila just remains the Raila we have known. As the driver of the trailer, he may know what his makangas are doing at the back, but he chooses to ignore. This overlooking of the workings of his Makangas, is what is bad and may call for an answer from him...otherwise, the driver himself is clean and he may drive on. Anyways, even though am not a lawyer, am nonetheless a little worried about the verbal diarrhoea about PEV, that emits from MM's mouth. Ati 41 against 1.... I mean the whole campaigns before 2007 was 41 against 1; That is not news - Everyone in the opposition was geared to making sure that the kikuyu does not return to power; me included. Let MM not lie to us, that he has more info about PEV than Kosgey or Ruto would have. Ruto hates Raila, and Ruto having been a Pentagon member must have known about 41 against 1 - why hasnt he spilled that out yet? Miguna awache porojo nyingi. Let him enjoy the sales from his book in peace na awache kuasha moto isiyohitajika
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Post by b6k on Jul 15, 2012 11:33:00 GMT 3
At 9 pm news the NTV will interview MM so please send your questions in advance. I too was privileged to be at the launch and even got one copy autographed by MM. His speech basically attempted to answer 3 question, namely: 1. Why did you decide to write the book 2. What made you release it now, and 3. When you found out others were corrupt why did you not resign? For 1 he gave the examples of the personal Assistant of former aide of past Britain’s prime minister Tony Blair who not only wrote as memoir of his time in office but additionally is releasing diaries. Also Condoleezza Rice the former Secretary of State during the presidency of George W. Bush Jr. For 2 he asked a rhetorical question. When is it right to release a book? January or December or in between? Before or after elections? Who says so? For 3 he challenged the media to stop letting down Kenyans by not asking the perceived corrupt individuals to resign. He quoted former anti corruption Czar PLO Lumumba who even after stating the Permanent Secretary in the Office of the Prime Minister had returned houses he acquired illegally in the 80s and 90s and what PLO did was forgive the PS, OPM. He also gave the example of the current crop of leadership say surrounding the PM namely Fred Gumo, Ole Ntimama, Henry Kosgey, Dalmas Otieno and wondered what kind of reformer makes those his/her bosom buddies? As an old man I was pleasantly elated by the presence of many young people. Was reminded of my university days when a speech would start with ‘Comrades Power’ and the audience would return ‘Power’. It was refreshing to hear a fire brand since the old days of the likes of late Titus Andugosi, Mwandawiro Mghanga, Buke. It was pathetic that the likes of oMwenga who appear to be campaigning for jobs in the current or future government can turn into sycophants yet the times require we be critical of not only those we do not like but more so those close to us. Of more importance is need to focus more on the issues that affect us and our people and for anyone who is resident in Kenya they would be youth unemployment; security; environmental sustainability etc. not what we see the G7 spending all their energies talking about an individual and not what their parties including themselves as G7 leaders will do for Kenyans and the country. That is why what Paul Muite said stuck a raw nerve i.e. let us dwell on what topics the book raises rather than focus on the individual raising them. So what are we doing about impunity peddlers? Those both in government and hoping to form future governments? Onyango Oloo too did not disappoint either, dwelling at length on the memory by invoking the names of past heroes and reminding us not to allow anyone to draw a line and say that list stops here (say 1963). We still have heroes living among us, we had in the past and we surely will have in future. Are you ready to be counted? Podp, thanks for the balanced review of the launch. It's sad that many on Jukwaa don't seem to get the importance of leaving emotions out of their missives & critically analyzing whether the emperor with feet of clay is REALLY the agent for change he is cleverly marketed to be. This is what people should concentrate on, not personal attacks on MM or OO. In my view, the dam has sprung a leak. Anyone who believes the MM book will not have an effect has no idea on how tipping points operate. It always starts with a trickle, before it becomes a flood. Raila needs to act fast & roll some heads in his office or face humiliation come the next general elections.
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Post by jakaswanga on Jul 15, 2012 11:40:46 GMT 3
I see a lot of amateur psycho-analysts around here. Where are the deeper shrinks? Take a look. The Oedipal complex, and the rage to murder the father. Our generation, born in the sixties, are the first post-colonial generation. The independence generation. The eldests or 'Kayo'!But we have watched the older generations, our dads, betray that word Uhuru, betray the mother Kenya, so we are a generation of fury, with latent contempt for our dads --the Mois, Kenyattas, Kibakis. The sooner they die the better is our unspoken wish. We suffer the pain of a lost paradise. What Afrika could have been under more competence. We travel around, even live in better led lands. So we know the depth of the failure of our dads.
Miguna's fury against Raila is thus the political reflection of the subconscious of his whole generation against their dads. Miguna only being prodigal enough to state it publicly within the family, airing the dirty family linen in public as it were. It is the public enactment of a drama inflicting the subterranean vaults of a whole generation. From there the national fascination with Miguna. The mirror.
Miguna's memoirs --I do not think Miguna is yet 50 yrs, if you forget the Raila passages for a moment, is also the story of a generation coming of age. From the rural areas of the provinces of Kenya to big city college and radical student activism. It is a Kenyan story. Very representative of a large sector of the bureaucratic class. Rural roots to urban big. And I look forward to hot descriptions of the innings and outings in Nyanza secondary schools, and reminscences of the days of our adolescence, when, in Kisumu town festivals of sport or music, Onjiko would team up with Homa Bay, Agoro Sare and Nyabondo, to go to war with Yala, Sawagongo, Maseno and Maranda, over who had rights to Asumbi, Lwak, Rae, Ahero, Ogande, and Ng'iya!
And even from as far as Kericho, the riot squad would be helicoptered in to help restore order! Wazee hukumbuka! Raila is just the marketing button.
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Post by phil on Jul 15, 2012 12:48:44 GMT 3
Being so busy I haven’t had much time to follow Miguna’s antics in detail. However, of what I have seen and read, here are a few observations: 1. Thank you Jaber and Omwenga for your perspectives and contributions. Three quarters of what I have read that is mistakenly described by the ‘Daily Nation’ as ‘serial’ could be summarized in the following paragraph: I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. I am a fool blah blah. But this is enough to earn Miguna the last installment check from the shadowy paymasters who correctly identified an out-of-control ego, an emotional wreck and deployed it to attack Raila Odinga. Sometimes I wonder why we waste time on the barking dog instead of following its leash to its new owner. 2. We can dismiss Oloo’s ‘review’. He, as I articulated earlier, works for Miguna. It is a half-baked review. It reeks of the embarrassing sycophancy that we have seen here over weeks and months. Nothing objective about it. Adongo says Oloo was a book reviewer for some ‘diasporic’ magazine . But I see no evidence that he learnt much. For instance, the book was written hurriedly, no sense of reflection required of such assignments is evident, scant additional research or interviews and loads of inaccuracies, rumors, innuendo and even simple spelling errors (some of which we corrected here!). The prose is similar to what we saw on the pages of the Star newspaper– suitable for quick propaganda but not for serious introspection worthy of being called ‘political memoirs’. Miguna flatters himself by comparing his sleazy propaganda to the works of Condoleeza Rice or Alastair Campbell. You do not expect a lapdog to see any of this, do you? Of interest, is that, whereas Oloo writes with some regularity, the DN hardly finds his material worthy of her newsprints, that is, until now. Make what you will of that. On a related subject: Some will recall the choice epithets that Oloo leveled against myself and others in a thread that he subsequently decided to block… and then unblock to only to add an inconsequential and clearly private communication from the CJ. I have no problem with that; I recognize the constant transfiguration of the pugilist into referee, and vice versa as part of the bargain here. 3. It is clear that the Miguna is now running scared. Miguna has no idea what all the people he disparages in his book will do. Nobody really knows. That is the reason for the stupid interview on Nation TV. ‘If they sue me I will take them to the Hague’ bullshit. Miguna – hear this: Raila Odinga is the least of your worries. This is 2012; we fought for freedom while you were in Canada handling refugee matters. That is why you can talk all the takataka you want. Of course some of your rubbish may end up in court. But this is not 1987 when Moi would have fried your balls for dinner. I think what annoys Miguna most is that Raila Odinga will not respond to him. The best part of the whole charade is when Miguna says ‘they should kneel, lick and pray at my feet’… who says that? which sane person talks like that? this is symptomatic of a deep psychological problem. A maniacal emotional imbalance that can only be treated at Frank Njenga’s clinic. I say best part because it helped viewers to suddenly realize that they were dealing with serious mental issues. It was an aha! moment that suddenly explained everything. Linda Ogutu, the interviewer called it ‘obsession’. I have no idea what Frank Njenga will call it. 4. There is of course a subtext – as there usually is. Two advisors, both lawyers jostling for power and position in Raila’s court. One is outplayed, outthought, outmaneuvered and outwitted. One is a loud, arrogant, embarrassing and reckless. The other is silent, efficient, and powerful. I agree with Job about the base emotions that motivate people like Miguna. He was in fierce competition with Karoli and he lost. 5. Raila Odinga will win the next elections. Ever since Miguna left, the Odinga campaign has seemed better organized and more deliberate about its actions. There seems to be a coherent strategy unfolding. The DN has milked all it can in its attack on Raila. In days, the 24 hours news cycle will focus on the next controversy and Kenyans will move on. We will say more... ;D ;D ;D I will not add a word but hasten to say I am eagerly awaiting the "more" that you have to say. Well done!
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Post by kasuku on Jul 15, 2012 12:53:14 GMT 3
RR and all who are arrogantly refusing the facts…
Raila wouldn't win the election as it stands now, since miguna's book was launched: Let me remind you of something you people arrogantly ignore. History tells us that, Kenyatta’s tribalism has brainwashed the rest of Kenyans never to trust the jaluo tribe. Since a decade now Raila has worked very hard to change that believe. But only with the help of other tribal leaders did he manage to win trust from the ordinary mwananchi, say from Eastern, coast Rift valley or Central.
Now we know that those who helped him become popular all over Kenya in the last 2 election, those who helped him win trust in the grounds of other tribes mistrusting the Luo are no longer his alleys anymore, say Kalonzo, Ruto, Balala and the rest of the so called Pentagon movement.
However, he still had a chance without the defectors of ODM Pentagon before Miguna’s book opened the door to what is going on behind the closed doors of Railas Office. This is a major damage which could open that old mistrust of the men from Lake Victoria by the rest of Kenya. The arrogance I read here from some will only put pilipili to the rest.
Raila’s reputation as a reformer has being damaged badly by this book and the only way out of it is for him to come out cleanly by throwing out the Rot out of his office and instead of surrounding himself again with only family and only Luo people, to employ people from all over Kenya to run his office. That’s the only thing that will help him now, as keen eyes of the mwananchi are watching his next move.
Now that is the naked true people, like it or not
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Post by bkichwa on Jul 15, 2012 14:41:32 GMT 3
RR and all who are arrogantly refusing the facts… Raila wouldn't win the election as it stands now, since miguna's book was launched: Let me remind you of something you people arrogantly ignore. History tells us that, Kenyatta’s tribalism has brainwashed the rest of Kenyans never to trust the jaluo tribe. Since a decade now Raila has worked very hard to change that believe. But only with the help of other tribal leaders did he manage to win trust from the ordinary mwananchi, say from Eastern, coast Rift valley or Central. Now we know that those who helped him become popular all over Kenya in the last 2 election, those who helped him win trust in the grounds of other tribes mistrusting the Luo are no longer his alleys anymore, say Kalonzo, Ruto, Balala and the rest of the so called Pentagon movement. However, he still had a chance without the defectors of ODM Pentagon before Miguna’s book opened the door to what is going on behind the closed doors of Railas Office. This is a major damage which could open that old mistrust of the men from Lake Victoria by the rest of Kenya. The arrogance I read here from some will only put pilipili to the rest. Raila’s reputation as a reformer has being damaged badly by this book and the only way out of it is for him to come out cleanly by throwing out the Rot out of his office and instead of surrounding himself again with only family and only Luo people, to employ people from all over Kenya to run his office. That’s the only thing that will help him now, as keen eyes of the mwananchi are watching his next move. Now that is the naked true people, like it or not Kasuku, Good post. It is those particularly who had bought into the whole 'Raila as reformer' mantra that will be shocked to learn about what the man is about behind the scene. But there is one thing you note which many others have mentioned or alluded to previously, that makes one scratch the head...that what Raila needs to do is to 'clean up the rot around him', surround himself with cleaner folk with morals and integrity and all then shall be well. They say that 'you are the company that you keep'. As well that 'birds of a feather flock together'. I think there is too much benefit of doubt being bestowed on Raila as the 'otherwise good guy who is surrounded by the wrong guys'. This defence doesn't wash. Raila is cut from the same cloth as the crooked folk HE CHOOSES to be close to him or associate with. That is why he condones their character and actions. That is why he chooses such folk to form his integral team of confidants, team members, associates, and lieutenants. You can see it in all levels of his engagements...his deal-making corrupt OPM crew, folks like Henry Kosgey, Gumo, Ntimama and Hassan Joho at political party level, folks like Devani of Triton fame at business level, and so on. What type of reformer runs with a crew whose list reads like that with the folk above? These associations by him are intentional and made BY HIM out of HIS CHOICE. Through this, Raila is basically at every turn loudly shouting to us who he is. I therefore don't see Raila's current image problem as being about 'those around him', as the latter are plain and simply a reflection of what he is and is about. Actions speak louder than words.
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Post by roughrider on Jul 15, 2012 14:51:34 GMT 3
RR and all who are arrogantly refusing the facts… Raila wouldn't win the election as it stands now, since miguna's book was launched: Let me remind you of something you people arrogantly ignore. History tells us that, Kenyatta’s tribalism has brainwashed the rest of Kenyans never to trust the jaluo tribe. Since a decade now Raila has worked very hard to change that believe. But only with the help of other tribal leaders did he manage to win trust from the ordinary mwananchi, say from Eastern, coast Rift valley or Central. Now we know that those who helped him become popular all over Kenya in the last 2 election, those who helped him win trust in the grounds of other tribes mistrusting the Luo are no longer his alleys anymore, say Kalonzo, Ruto, Balala and the rest of the so called Pentagon movement. However, he still had a chance without the defectors of ODM Pentagon before Miguna’s book opened the door to what is going on behind the closed doors of Railas Office. This is a major damage which could open that old mistrust of the men from Lake Victoria by the rest of Kenya. The arrogance I read here from some will only put pilipili to the rest. Raila’s reputation as a reformer has being damaged badly by this book and the only way out of it is for him to come out cleanly by throwing out the Rot out of his office and instead of surrounding himself again with only family and only Luo people, to employ people from all over Kenya to run his office. That’s the only thing that will help him now, as keen eyes of the mwananchi are watching his next move. Now that is the naked true people, like it or not Ms Kasuku; Thank you for your views. But with due respect you are entitled to your opinions but not your own facts. It seems to me that there are so many ‘facts’ being bandied about. Raila Odinga is the most watched, about politician in Kenya. We know his history very well. His fight for reforms in Kenya is well documented right from the 70’s. Raila confronted dictatorship at every turn. I think those facts are self-evident. Miguna has engaged in a ‘she told me, he told me’ account. Sally said this, Karoli said that. Rumours and other attacks on Raila’s style based on the recent hatred. There is no substance to react to. And so do not expect us to discuss things that are either fictional or generalized political mudslinging. And strangely, there is nothing that really touches on Raila. It is like a child telling on other children. This is Desperate Housewives Season 11. I invite you to consider another set of facts: Raila (and only Raila could do this) brought Miguna to the fore of Kenyan politics. Raila gave him succor. He was fired in acrimonious circumstances that we are all too aware of. Miguna was emotional, angry and frustrated. He lashed out saying that ‘he loved Raila’ but given how he was fired he would now work to destroy Raila. This set of facts should help you to read his book in proper context. Think lady, think. Impunity fights back in amazing, spectacular and unexpected ways. Kenya just passed a revolutionary constitution. Why did we imagine it would be so simple? Kibaki is openly defying a court as we speak! Impunity fights back. If you read Miguna’s views, on for example William Ruto, you can’t help chocking at the sheer hypocrisy. Today he finds Ruto to be an angel – hardworking, generous etc – yet the same Miguna wrote acres attacking Ruto for all manner of transgressions. Kasuku, facts are facts. Opinions are a dime a dozen.
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Post by kasuku on Jul 15, 2012 15:41:55 GMT 3
Bkichwa, RR
RR I personaly really don’t care about Miguna’s reason for writing that book. The book is there and it is being discussed. All I care is about who will be our leader come April next year (2013)
I would rather have a Raila, (albeit his corrupted office) than any other person who is currently running for same office. But i am deadly scared of his Hungry office runners, who will try to eat faster than any other one, as they have waited too long for their turn to eat.
And if Raila is as corrupted as his office runners…I can’t think right now beyond that now (So like Kenyans say at this point, lets pray for a miracle)
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Post by OtishOtish on Jul 15, 2012 16:27:03 GMT 3
After all the pre-launch noises, I expected some really exciting things post-launch. I am surprised by the extent to which things have already fizzled---and not just on Jukwaa. People, can we put some oomph back into this thing?
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mbuta
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Post by mbuta on Jul 15, 2012 16:33:57 GMT 3
Watching Miguna Miguna the last couple of days, wildly gesticulating, hands on the hip, pointing with his nose reminded me of this folk song we used to sing in Luoland about a wronged co-wife...I have been humming all day, just kind the right words...anyone want to help me out?
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Post by reporter911 on Jul 15, 2012 17:09:44 GMT 3
Now I'm more interested to know what really happened in Canada and the RAPE CASE? if a person can throw around such serious accusations using his book without any proof or evidence then, one must wonder.. 1. what proof did the police have from the victims of the rape cases in Canada? Rape is Rape there is no if or buts the technicality on how Miguna won the case must be perused closely and maybe the Canadian police owes it to the victims to reopen the case.. I read on another blog posted was it today.. that the victims were in fear of being deported from Canada.. read " illegal immigrants " that Miguna was representing in his position as an Immigration lawyer and being a from Kenya that is how the victims approached him " he had power over them) If indeed Miguna did rape this poor Kenyan ladies then they should reopen their cases.. years have since passed but if one was raped that act does not disappear from their mind or soul.. rape is rape is rape and it remains rape!! I guess if one can attack other peoples moral and ethical principles, and claims or implies to be honest and has ethics, and good moral character then Kenyans have a right to dig further into his background to proof otherwise that what he states is factual.
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bob
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Post by bob on Jul 15, 2012 17:25:57 GMT 3
Is this how an intellectual launches a book that is worth its salt or worth reading? Forget the content,the manner how the owner goes about unveiling his book & the subsequent interviews leaves a lot to be desired. But obviously any anti-raila element will be very excited & will cheer like it is the end of the world,but that is not going to be the case. Raila unfortunately is already a brand name in Kenyan politics & like any product in the market he will simply re-invent himself & throe himself into the market & there you go. This is Kenya. Kibaki, Uhuru, Rutoetc have more hidden skeletons in their closets but try convincing their supporters otherwise,the will take non of that.
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Post by podp on Jul 15, 2012 21:07:06 GMT 3
b6k, You say "In my view, the dam has sprung a leak. Anyone who believes the MM book will not have an effect has no idea on how tipping points operate. It always starts with a trickle, before it becomes a flood. Raila needs to act fast & roll some heads in his office or face humiliation come the next general elections. Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7164&page=4#ixzz20iR16vqPSorry have just finished reading Book One that ends on page 94 and MM has not mentioned PM so far. However he has raised some rather not so nice issues on our first and second Presidents i.e. Kenyatta and Moi. I have not heard any of the die hard supporters of those two former Presidents throw vitriol on MM so will not comment further for now. However issues of injustice, inequality and other negatives come out strongly and if you are keen on that discussion we can engage but if your fixation is on the personality of PM count me out for now. MM had a rough upbringing when I compare with my own. Very tough guy and will ensure my grandchildren read that so that as they marvel at residing in Runda, Karen and similar surroundings they see the possible roots to such places! One does not have to cut corners. But one can also kill as the likes of Maina Njenga are famed to haver bulldozed their way to such leafy areas. Let me continue to Book 2
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Post by justfacts on Jul 15, 2012 21:27:35 GMT 3
Maybe i would have been more sympathetic had it not been that MM motive for writing is clear as day which has led to me doubting his objectivity.
MM had a chance to write about his time in the OPM in an revealing and interesting manner. Instead, from excerpts i have read, he comes out as a man carrying out a hatchet job fueled by need for payback for some 'wrongs' done to him.
Who was, if ever he had one, his friend in the OPM, what were his light/candid moments with the PM b4 the fallout.....
As it is now the book can be summed as
'RAO this RAO that....... blah blah blah.......RAO is no good and he cries........ RAO should have fired Caroli not me.....Now see what he made me do' Many of the allegations sound hollow and third hand......ati i overheard a conversation on the phone!!!! surely! Like one columnist wondered....who buys a hotel from civil service pay anyway? maybe MM knows such men.
Most memoirs (usually done when the subject has left some hallowed office) give holistic insight into the man, an angle maybe more intimate or revealing than we ever imagined but this 'peeling' book mainly gives an insight into the ego of one scorned man and how vitriolic he can be while saying nothing new.
I wonder what else he could be spewing on 'the bench' or ...whenever in some sequel that he is already promising. Methinks this venting means his ego is now deflated.
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Post by b6k on Jul 15, 2012 21:30:59 GMT 3
b6k, You say "In my view, the dam has sprung a leak. Anyone who believes the MM book will not have an effect has no idea on how tipping points operate. It always starts with a trickle, before it becomes a flood. Raila needs to act fast & roll some heads in his office or face humiliation come the next general elections. Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7164&page=4#ixzz20iR16vqPSorry have just finished reading Book One that ends on page 94 and MM has not mentioned PM so far. However he has raised some rather not so nice issues on our first and second Presidents i.e. Kenyatta and Moi. I have not heard any of the die hard supporters of those two former Presidents throw vitriol on MM so will not comment further for now. However issues of injustice, inequality and other negatives come out strongly and if you are keen on that discussion we can engage but if your fixation is on the personality of PM count me out for now. MM had a rough upbringing when I compare with my own. Very tough guy and will ensure my grandchildren read that so that as they marvel at residing in Runda, Karen and similar surroundings they see the possible roots to such places! One does not have to cut corners. But one can also kill as the likes of Maina Njenga are famed to haver bulldozed their way to such leafy areas. Let me continue to Book 2 Podp, I'm glad to see you are reading MM's book. I hope to join you by tomorrow latest. That said, if you haven't acquainted yourself to my missives on Jukwaa, I am an equal opportunity basher. That said, given that the majority of Jukwaa tends to lean too much to one side of the equation, maybe I also lean in the opposite direction in order to balance the equation. As they say, nature abhors a vacuum. Also, as far as the 2 former presidents are concerned, most people who were their virulent supporters that I talk to will admit they were basterds. The problem with Agwambo's minions is they are never willing to even admit he may be a flawed character. That is one thing I like to call them out on. PS: Are you one of the Jukwaaists I spotted at the launch, or why the sudden interest in li'l ol' b6k?
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Post by reporter911 on Jul 15, 2012 22:50:22 GMT 3
b6k, You say "In my view, the dam has sprung a leak. Anyone who believes the MM book will not have an effect has no idea on how tipping points operate. It always starts with a trickle, before it becomes a flood. Raila needs to act fast & roll some heads in his office or face humiliation come the next general elections. Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=7164&page=4#ixzz20iR16vqPSorry have just finished reading Book One that ends on page 94 and MM has not mentioned PM so far. However he has raised some rather not so nice issues on our first and second Presidents i.e. Kenyatta and Moi. I have not heard any of the die hard supporters of those two former Presidents throw vitriol on MM so will not comment further for now. However issues of injustice, inequality and other negatives come out strongly and if you are keen on that discussion we can engage but if your fixation is on the personality of PM count me out for now. MM had a rough upbringing when I compare with my own. Very tough guy and will ensure my grandchildren read that so that as they marvel at residing in Runda, Karen and similar surroundings they see the possible roots to such places! One does not have to cut corners. But one can also kill as the likes of Maina Njenga are famed to haver bulldozed their way to such leafy areas. Let me continue to Book 2 Cases when won on technicality pay out loads of Money.. wasn't he paid a lump some of money on that alleged "Rape" case in Canada? what has Maina Njenga got to do with it? people earns money in different ways and if Jomo Kenyatta hadn't grabbed all the land in central province from the Mau Mau veteran and their Kin.. the youth in central province "some who joined gangs like the Mungiki would not have even thought of doing so.. Their families were banished by force to the Rift Valley where the land they were given was unceremoniously taken away from its owners.. - yup lets keep reading .. even Obama has some new books & video's out now claiming that he's father was not Kenyan e.t.c
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Post by einstein on Jul 16, 2012 1:33:06 GMT 3
Miguna speaks on his newly published bookBy Oscar Obonyo Miguna Miguna, Author, ‘Peeling Back The Mask: A Quest For Justice In Kenya’ What is the motivation behind penning ‘Peeling Back The Mask’?To tell my story, my journey, my quest for justice. To reflect on my life and experiences. For historical record. To peel back the culture of impunity, corruption, injustice, inequalities and inequities bedevelling our country and society. To call for accountability in governance and politics. To expose duplicity, deception, dishonesty and hypocrisy. To move the reform agenda of our country forward. To celebrate our struggles for liberation and demand rectitude from our leaders. Coming after a tiff with your former boss and just a couple of months to the 2013 General Election, isn’t your timing curious? What is curious is your question. When is the right time to write a book? Should we stop writing books and raising issues because of electioneering? I thought that the best time to raise issues, to challenge politicians and call them to account, is during elections. That is how it is done all over the world. Why should Kenya be the exception? Leadership must be earned through auditable track records. A leader must be able to account for their past and present. They must account to the electorate for how they use their time and resources. Remember that the leaders – the politicians – are our employees. We hire them during each election cycle to serve us, to deliver services, to advance and protect public interests. My book raises issues that reasonable people ought to debate. Exchanges during such debates should ultimately enhance not just the average citizen’s participation in public affairs but result in the creation and perpetuation of democracy, the rule of law and constitutionalism. Why should anybody frown upon my quest for justice? What do they want to hide? Those with different sets of information or arguments are entitled to advance or publish theirs and the public should ultimately be the judge. In virtually all modern democracies, public figures share their experiences in public service through books. Many people who have served in the American, Canadian and British public service have published their memoirs. Former head of the presidency and secretary to the cabinet in South Africa, Frank Chikane recently published his Eight Days in September: The Removal of Thabo Mbeki. In September this year, Chikane is releasing another volume titled The Things I Could Not Say: From A(ids) to Z(imbabwe). In both books, he meticulously recounts all manner of encounters, experiences and discussions. Remember that Chikane was the equivalent of Francis Muthaura. Yet South Africans haven’t been frothing in the mouth condeming him and trying to muzzle him. Why? Because, ironically, even though SA got its independence just recently in 1994, they value freedom and are determined not to squander the democratic space they fought so gallantly for. Why shouldn’t we do the same? In the UK, Tony Blair’s former press secretary, Alastair Campbell has now published unvarnished and largely unedited Diaries of some of the intimate, secret and personal discussions and interactions within the Blair inner circle. I believe he has now released five volumes of those, each more than 700 pages long. That is the equivalent of five Peeling Back the Masks! Yet you have not heard the British falling over themselves over these publications. Another Blairite, Peter Mendelson, published his The Third Man in 2011. Even Condoleeza Rice has published her memoir, No Higher Honour, about the Bush years. You are talking here about a former national security adviser and Secretary of State. Nobody has cried state security! For me, the timing is perfect. The book is not only about my life working for Mr Raila Odinga. People should read and understand it first before commenting. Everybody deserves a reasoned debate; not a cacophonous mumbo jumbo. I hope we are capable of that. Why didn’t you (publicly) raise some of the issues with regard to alleged scams in the Office of the Prime Minister, then?I did. Just read the book. I raised virtually every issue in the book (with the PM) while I was working in the Prime Minister’s Office. Those claiming otherwise are either ignorant of the facts or dishonest. Fortunately, that’s not my problem. What would you say to those who view your publication as an attempt to scuttle Raila Odinga’s presidential bid? Again, let them read the book. If Raila’s presidential bid is scuttled by the truth, so be it. Life is not about Raila Odinga or Miguna Miguna. Life is bigger and much more significant than that. Raila was not created to be president. Nobody was. Not everything must be reduced to Raila’s quest for the presidency. Why shouldn’t we question corruption in Government and in the Office of the Prime Minister merely because Raila is desperate to be president? If anybody suggests that after reading my book, he or she would not deserve any further response. Your book seems to be shaping political opinion already. Comment. No comment. I hope and trust that the book speaks for itself. Some of the revelations are damaging to certain individuals and border even on character assassination. Are you concerned that your book could get trapped in a legal gridlock?I find your questions, particularly this one mischievous. A novice law student will educate you that truth is an absolute defence in these matters. If I say that I saw Mr X steal Y; and I actually did see Mr X do that; is that character assassination? If Mr Y tells me that one such and such a day, I did Z; and I report that; why is that character assassination? Why is it only character assassination when thieves, looters and drug dealers are exposed? Deal with the facts staring you in the face from every quarter in this country. Do your job as a journalist and tell Kenyans the truth. Avoid the cowardly temptation to bury your head in the sand. That tendency and culture must end and end fast. It is sickening... What next for Miguna after publication of “Peeling Back The Mask”? I’m thoroughly enjoying both the praise and the criticism, the attacks and the abuse. These are the manure on which intellectuals, thinkers and writers thrive. As the noise continues, I’m already putting ideas and materials together on two more books. I thank you for the interview. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000061930&story_title=Miguna-speaks-on-his-newly-published-book
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Post by reporter911 on Jul 16, 2012 1:54:25 GMT 3
Miguna speaks on his newly published bookBy Oscar Obonyo Miguna Miguna, Author, ‘Peeling Back The Mask: A Quest For Justice In Kenya’ What is the motivation behind penning ‘Peeling Back The Mask’?To tell my story, my journey, my quest for justice. To reflect on my life and experiences. For historical record. To peel back the culture of impunity, corruption, injustice, inequalities and inequities bedevelling our country and society. To call for accountability in governance and politics. To expose duplicity, deception, dishonesty and hypocrisy. To move the reform agenda of our country forward. To celebrate our struggles for liberation and demand rectitude from our leaders. Coming after a tiff with your former boss and just a couple of months to the 2013 General Election, isn’t your timing curious? What is curious is your question. When is the right time to write a book? Should we stop writing books and raising issues because of electioneering? I thought that the best time to raise issues, to challenge politicians and call them to account, is during elections. That is how it is done all over the world. Why should Kenya be the exception? Leadership must be earned through auditable track records. A leader must be able to account for their past and present. They must account to the electorate for how they use their time and resources. Remember that the leaders – the politicians – are our employees. We hire them during each election cycle to serve us, to deliver services, to advance and protect public interests. My book raises issues that reasonable people ought to debate. Exchanges during such debates should ultimately enhance not just the average citizen’s participation in public affairs but result in the creation and perpetuation of democracy, the rule of law and constitutionalism. Why should anybody frown upon my quest for justice? What do they want to hide? Those with different sets of information or arguments are entitled to advance or publish theirs and the public should ultimately be the judge. In virtually all modern democracies, public figures share their experiences in public service through books. Many people who have served in the American, Canadian and British public service have published their memoirs. Former head of the presidency and secretary to the cabinet in South Africa, Frank Chikane recently published his Eight Days in September: The Removal of Thabo Mbeki. In September this year, Chikane is releasing another volume titled The Things I Could Not Say: From A(ids) to Z(imbabwe). In both books, he meticulously recounts all manner of encounters, experiences and discussions. Remember that Chikane was the equivalent of Francis Muthaura. Yet South Africans haven’t been frothing in the mouth condeming him and trying to muzzle him. Why? Because, ironically, even though SA got its independence just recently in 1994, they value freedom and are determined not to squander the democratic space they fought so gallantly for. Why shouldn’t we do the same? In the UK, Tony Blair’s former press secretary, Alastair Campbell has now published unvarnished and largely unedited Diaries of some of the intimate, secret and personal discussions and interactions within the Blair inner circle. I believe he has now released five volumes of those, each more than 700 pages long. That is the equivalent of five Peeling Back the Masks! Yet you have not heard the British falling over themselves over these publications. Another Blairite, Peter Mendelson, published his The Third Man in 2011. Even Condoleeza Rice has published her memoir, No Higher Honour, about the Bush years. You are talking here about a former national security adviser and Secretary of State. Nobody has cried state security! For me, the timing is perfect. The book is not only about my life working for Mr Raila Odinga. People should read and understand it first before commenting. Everybody deserves a reasoned debate; not a cacophonous mumbo jumbo. I hope we are capable of that. Why didn’t you (publicly) raise some of the issues with regard to alleged scams in the Office of the Prime Minister, then?I did. Just read the book. I raised virtually every issue in the book (with the PM) while I was working in the Prime Minister’s Office. Those claiming otherwise are either ignorant of the facts or dishonest. Fortunately, that’s not my problem. What would you say to those who view your publication as an attempt to scuttle Raila Odinga’s presidential bid? Again, let them read the book. If Raila’s presidential bid is scuttled by the truth, so be it. Life is not about Raila Odinga or Miguna Miguna. Life is bigger and much more significant than that. Raila was not created to be president. Nobody was. Not everything must be reduced to Raila’s quest for the presidency. Why shouldn’t we question corruption in Government and in the Office of the Prime Minister merely because Raila is desperate to be president? If anybody suggests that after reading my book, he or she would not deserve any further response. Your book seems to be shaping political opinion already. Comment. No comment. I hope and trust that the book speaks for itself. Some of the revelations are damaging to certain individuals and border even on character assassination. Are you concerned that your book could get trapped in a legal gridlock?I find your questions, particularly this one mischievous. A novice law student will educate you that truth is an absolute defence in these matters. If I say that I saw Mr X steal Y; and I actually did see Mr X do that; is that character assassination? If Mr Y tells me that one such and such a day, I did Z; and I report that; why is that character assassination? Why is it only character assassination when thieves, looters and drug dealers are exposed? Deal with the facts staring you in the face from every quarter in this country. Do your job as a journalist and tell Kenyans the truth. Avoid the cowardly temptation to bury your head in the sand. That tendency and culture must end and end fast. It is sickening... What next for Miguna after publication of “Peeling Back The Mask”? I’m thoroughly enjoying both the praise and the criticism, the attacks and the abuse. These are the manure on which intellectuals, thinkers and writers thrive. As the noise continues, I’m already putting ideas and materials together on two more books. I thank you for the interview. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000061930&story_title=Miguna-speaks-on-his-newly-published-book Yup !! ICC is waiting for him to go hand in the alleged dossier file he claims he has on Raila and other political leaders in regards to the 2007-2008 elections. Miguna forgets many Innocent Kenyans lost their life's and for him too boast about with-holding information that could put light on what happened during the so called clashes asking people to kiss his feet or else he will reveal.. I don't buy it!!!! HOW ABOUT SOME FAKE/FALSE INFORMATION, that MIGUNA is planning TO PEDDLE? Miguna is trying to use the FALSE FLAG TACTIC[/b] he is testing how his comments are received by Kenyans on his secret dossier before coming out with tramped up reports or false documents.. even tapes can be tampered with.. ha!!ha!!
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Post by Titchaz on Jul 16, 2012 5:15:12 GMT 3
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Jul 16, 2012 5:39:19 GMT 3
Pictures they say speak more than words.
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Post by okhunyanye on Jul 16, 2012 6:01:22 GMT 3
This was a powerful piece. Aspiring book critics need to save this on their PC harddrives for future reference. Thank you RR
But this is enough to earn Miguna the last installment check from the shadowy paymasters who correctly identified an out-of-control ego, an emotional wreck and deployed it to attack Raila Odinga. Sometimes I wonder why we waste time on the barking dog instead of following its leash to its new owner.
2. We can dismiss Oloo’s ‘review’. He, as I articulated earlier, works for Miguna. It is a half-baked review. It reeks of the embarrassing sycophancy that we have seen here over weeks and months. Nothing objective about it. Adongo says Oloo was a book reviewer for some ‘diasporic’ magazine . But I see no evidence that he learnt much. For instance, the book was written hurriedly, no sense of reflection required of such assignments is evident, scant additional research or interviews and loads of inaccuracies, rumors, innuendo and even simple spelling errors (some of which we corrected here!). The prose is similar to what we saw on the pages of the Star newspaper– suitable for quick propaganda but not for serious introspection worthy of being called ‘political memoirs’. Miguna flatters himself by comparing his sleazy propaganda to the works of Condoleeza Rice or Alastair Campbell.
You do not expect a lapdog to see any of this, do you?
Of interest, is that, whereas Oloo writes with some regularity, the DN hardly finds his material worthy of her newsprints, that is, until now. Make what you will of that.
On a related subject: Some will recall the choice epithets that Oloo leveled against myself and others in a thread that he subsequently decided to block… and then unblock to only to add an inconsequential and clearly private communication from the CJ. I have no problem with that; I recognize the constant transfiguration of the pugilist into referee, and vice versa as part of the bargain here.
3. It is clear that the Miguna is now running scared. Miguna has no idea what all the people he disparages in his book will do. Nobody really knows. That is the reason for the stupid interview on Nation TV. ‘If they sue me I will take them to the Hague’ bullshit. Miguna – hear this: Raila Odinga is the least of your worries. This is 2012; we fought for freedom while you were in Canada handling refugee matters. That is why you can talk all the takataka you want. Of course some of your rubbish may end up in court. But this is not 1987 when Moi would have fried your balls for dinner. I think what annoys Miguna most is that Raila Odinga will not respond to him.
The best part of the whole charade is when Miguna says ‘they should kneel, lick and pray at my feet’… who says that? which sane person talks like that? this is symptomatic of a deep psychological problem. A maniacal emotional imbalance that can only be treated at Frank Njenga’s clinic. I say best part because it helped viewers to suddenly realize that they were dealing with serious mental issues. It was an aha! moment that suddenly explained everything. Linda Ogutu, the interviewer called it ‘obsession’. I have no idea what Frank Njenga will call it.
4. There is of course a subtext – as there usually is. Two advisors, both lawyers jostling for power and position in Raila’s court. One is outplayed, outthought, outmaneuvered and outwitted. One is a loud, arrogant, embarrassing and reckless. The other is silent, efficient, and powerful. I agree with Job about the base emotions that motivate people like Miguna. He was in fierce competition with Karoli and he lost.
5. Raila Odinga will win the next elections. Ever since Miguna left, the Odinga campaign has seemed better organized and more deliberate about its actions. There seems to be a coherent strategy unfolding. The DN has milked all it can in its attack on Raila. In days, the 24 hours news cycle will focus on the next controversy and Kenyans will move on.
We will say more...
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2012 8:59:25 GMT 3
This was a powerful piece. Aspiring book critics need to save this on their PC harddrives for future reference. Thank you RR
But this is enough to earn Miguna the last installment check from the shadowy paymasters who correctly identified an out-of-control ego, an emotional wreck and deployed it to attack Raila Odinga. Sometimes I wonder why we waste time on the barking dog instead of following its leash to its new owner.
2. We can dismiss Oloo’s ‘review’. He, as I articulated earlier, works for Miguna. It is a half-baked review. It reeks of the embarrassing sycophancy that we have seen here over weeks and months. Nothing objective about it. Adongo says Oloo was a book reviewer for some ‘diasporic’ magazine . But I see no evidence that he learnt much. For instance, the book was written hurriedly, no sense of reflection required of such assignments is evident, scant additional research or interviews and loads of inaccuracies, rumors, innuendo and even simple spelling errors (some of which we corrected here!). The prose is similar to what we saw on the pages of the Star newspaper– suitable for quick propaganda but not for serious introspection worthy of being called ‘political memoirs’. Miguna flatters himself by comparing his sleazy propaganda to the works of Condoleeza Rice or Alastair Campbell.
You do not expect a lapdog to see any of this, do you?
Of interest, is that, whereas Oloo writes with some regularity, the DN hardly finds his material worthy of her newsprints, that is, until now. Make what you will of that.
On a related subject: Some will recall the choice epithets that Oloo leveled against myself and others in a thread that he subsequently decided to block… and then unblock to only to add an inconsequential and clearly private communication from the CJ. I have no problem with that; I recognize the constant transfiguration of the pugilist into referee, and vice versa as part of the bargain here.
3. It is clear that the Miguna is now running scared. Miguna has no idea what all the people he disparages in his book will do. Nobody really knows. That is the reason for the stupid interview on Nation TV. ‘If they sue me I will take them to the Hague’ bullshit. Miguna – hear this: Raila Odinga is the least of your worries. This is 2012; we fought for freedom while you were in Canada handling refugee matters. That is why you can talk all the takataka you want. Of course some of your rubbish may end up in court. But this is not 1987 when Moi would have fried your balls for dinner. I think what annoys Miguna most is that Raila Odinga will not respond to him.
The best part of the whole charade is when Miguna says ‘they should kneel, lick and pray at my feet’… who says that? which sane person talks like that? this is symptomatic of a deep psychological problem. A maniacal emotional imbalance that can only be treated at Frank Njenga’s clinic. I say best part because it helped viewers to suddenly realize that they were dealing with serious mental issues. It was an aha! moment that suddenly explained everything. Linda Ogutu, the interviewer called it ‘obsession’. I have no idea what Frank Njenga will call it.
4. There is of course a subtext – as there usually is. Two advisors, both lawyers jostling for power and position in Raila’s court. One is outplayed, outthought, outmaneuvered and outwitted. One is a loud, arrogant, embarrassing and reckless. The other is silent, efficient, and powerful. I agree with Job about the base emotions that motivate people like Miguna. He was in fierce competition with Karoli and he lost.
5. Raila Odinga will win the next elections. Ever since Miguna left, the Odinga campaign has seemed better organized and more deliberate about its actions. There seems to be a coherent strategy unfolding. The DN has milked all it can in its attack on Raila. In days, the 24 hours news cycle will focus on the next controversy and Kenyans will move on.
We will say more...Please. I won't be borrowing a leaf from RR. As far as I'm concerned his analysis and writing style is the stuff of mediocrity. I do borrow, but only from brilliant minds. I don't need to repeat that I hold no brief for Miguna Miguna. But I will not dismiss the fact that Raila has nasty people around him. That's bad for Kenya. I call out nastiness when the people from my ethnic group do it and I will call it when any other Kenyan does it. I never want to fit into any of those clubs. I'd rather stay here in this beautiful city of Toronto, slugging it away to make an honest living! Going back to mediocrity here is my proof positive that RR is mediocre. Also that he is the lap dog that he accuses Oloo of being. Yes, why else would he have said this? Whose hound dog are you RR? Different topic but RR's comments here will amply demonstrate his limited capacities! And oh, is Samlim Lone welcome at your home? Or is he not a real Muhindi? Is this ODM thinking or just one of ODM's lap dog's thinking? A clear demonstration of what an ethnic and sexist chauvinist is! Here we go. "I think we must separate two things that are confusing Jakaswanga here. I think if it is rumors that you are ‘fathering’ the child of another man then we shouldn’t be bothered here on Jukwaa.
But if you actually know that your wife slept with an Asian and the child is obviously of Asian stock. If it is true that you settled the matter ‘internally’ and lived happily ever after; then your reaction to that knowledge is an important reflection of your character.
And character is an important part of our debate.
Mudavadi is obviously a stronger man than I am. My reaction would have been cataclysmic. The ‘marriage’, if it can be called that way, would have been brought to a screeching, unscheduled end. Well, this may all be academic anyway, because in the first place there would have been no room for an Indian in my house.
Perhaps there is a presidential quality in Mudavadi's acceptance of this situation. Let us think again."Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=6987&page=2#ixzz20lGshYz1
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Post by kipfirimbi on Jul 16, 2012 9:43:08 GMT 3
This was a powerful piece. Aspiring book critics need to save this on their PC harddrives for future reference. Thank you RR
But this is enough to earn Miguna the last installment check from the shadowy paymasters who correctly identified an out-of-control ego, an emotional wreck and deployed it to attack Raila Odinga. Sometimes I wonder why we waste time on the barking dog instead of following its leash to its new owner.
2. We can dismiss Oloo’s ‘review’. He, as I articulated earlier, works for Miguna. It is a half-baked review. It reeks of the embarrassing sycophancy that we have seen here over weeks and months. Nothing objective about it. Adongo says Oloo was a book reviewer for some ‘diasporic’ magazine . But I see no evidence that he learnt much. For instance, the book was written hurriedly, no sense of reflection required of such assignments is evident, scant additional research or interviews and loads of inaccuracies, rumors, innuendo and even simple spelling errors (some of which we corrected here!). The prose is similar to what we saw on the pages of the Star newspaper– suitable for quick propaganda but not for serious introspection worthy of being called ‘political memoirs’. Miguna flatters himself by comparing his sleazy propaganda to the works of Condoleeza Rice or Alastair Campbell.
You do not expect a lapdog to see any of this, do you?
Of interest, is that, whereas Oloo writes with some regularity, the DN hardly finds his material worthy of her newsprints, that is, until now. Make what you will of that.
On a related subject: Some will recall the choice epithets that Oloo leveled against myself and others in a thread that he subsequently decided to block… and then unblock to only to add an inconsequential and clearly private communication from the CJ. I have no problem with that; I recognize the constant transfiguration of the pugilist into referee, and vice versa as part of the bargain here.
3. It is clear that the Miguna is now running scared. Miguna has no idea what all the people he disparages in his book will do. Nobody really knows. That is the reason for the stupid interview on Nation TV. ‘If they sue me I will take them to the Hague’ bullshit. Miguna – hear this: Raila Odinga is the least of your worries. This is 2012; we fought for freedom while you were in Canada handling refugee matters. That is why you can talk all the takataka you want. Of course some of your rubbish may end up in court. But this is not 1987 when Moi would have fried your balls for dinner. I think what annoys Miguna most is that Raila Odinga will not respond to him.
The best part of the whole charade is when Miguna says ‘they should kneel, lick and pray at my feet’… who says that? which sane person talks like that? this is symptomatic of a deep psychological problem. A maniacal emotional imbalance that can only be treated at Frank Njenga’s clinic. I say best part because it helped viewers to suddenly realize that they were dealing with serious mental issues. It was an aha! moment that suddenly explained everything. Linda Ogutu, the interviewer called it ‘obsession’. I have no idea what Frank Njenga will call it.
4. There is of course a subtext – as there usually is. Two advisors, both lawyers jostling for power and position in Raila’s court. One is outplayed, outthought, outmaneuvered and outwitted. One is a loud, arrogant, embarrassing and reckless. The other is silent, efficient, and powerful. I agree with Job about the base emotions that motivate people like Miguna. He was in fierce competition with Karoli and he lost.
5. Raila Odinga will win the next elections. Ever since Miguna left, the Odinga campaign has seemed better organized and more deliberate about its actions. There seems to be a coherent strategy unfolding. The DN has milked all it can in its attack on Raila. In days, the 24 hours news cycle will focus on the next controversy and Kenyans will move on.
We will say more...I say you poked holes and said some home truths that are hard to swallow...i wish you stayed away from partisan in your review, your allianation to RAO gives you away...but damn, them blows RR are lethal...KING HITS we say!! Take heart and pen some "more"!!! Dont do a miguna and use them as pawns .
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Post by roughrider on Jul 16, 2012 9:54:47 GMT 3
Kathure;
This thread is about Miguna , his book, the launch and what people are saying about it. So what Miguna wrote, what Oloo, RR and others write and do in relation to this topic is kosher.
But here we are not discussing RR and what you feel or think about him. We are also not discussing Kathure. That is why, for instance, I will avoid pointing out the contradictions we see in you daily and your dismal performance as a Jukwaa moderator.
You know you could start a topic with the title: ‘Is RR Mediocre or Brilliant?’ ….and you might get some interesting views.
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