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Post by b6k on May 29, 2013 8:15:46 GMT 3
Moonkey (aka Otishotish), allow me to jump in the bandwagon & start yet another ICC thread. However, this one will run in the vein of the ICC Cases are floundering...at least the one for el presidente...  ...if this former ICC prosecutor is to be believed:  It is common practice to leak stories & future outcomes slowly before hitting the general public with bad news. This makes it more like a soft-landing for those who have invested all their hopes and energies towards a certain outcome. At least once they see it coming, they will not be broadsided with the bad news as it were. So here's my message to you via Nick Kaufman & The Star which is busy drafting its apology to Uhuru for an article written by Jerry Okungu last year. This is why the two cases which were initially joined once the charges were confirmed were split up again, so that Ruto will be left twisting in the wind alone. It's over, bruv.... UHURU ICC CASE WILL COLLAPSE - PROSECUTORTUESDAY, MAY 28, 2013 - 00:00 -- BY NZAU MUSAU A former prosecutor at the ICC has said that it is only a matter of time before the case against President Uhuru Kenyatta collapses. ICC Chief Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda said yesterday that her office had finished reviewing the evidence against Uhuru, as ordered by the Trial Court. Nick Kaufman, who was a prosecutor at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, said the case against Uhuru is almost beyond redemption. He was speaking to CNBC’s Karima Brown last week in the programme “Political Exchange." Kaufman, who is now in private practice at the ICC in the Hague, said the prosecution's evidence against Uhuru cannot sustain the trial. “From what I know, from what I have gathered from the records available, the case is built on straw. The case is going to fall apart sooner or later… unfortunately for international justice but not necessarily for Kenyatta,” he said. He said the charges sounded “a little bit bizarre” and that the way they have been investigated has not been professional. Kaufman said that ICC Chief Prosecutor Fatou Bensouda is carrying the burden of her predecessor Luis Moreno Ocampo who appeared to specifically target Uhuru who has since become Kenya’s fourth President. “The present prosecutor is completely different. The former prosecutor was extremely flamboyant, his control of the English language was poor. One could say in that sense that he was disadvantaged as a prosecutor,” he said in the show on Wednesday night. Kaufman said Ocampo’s handling of the cross examination with Uhuru during the confirmation of charges was “very amateurish" and some questions were “below the belt.” By contrast, he says Bensouda is less publicity seeking, more acceptable to African society, and has a more professional touch on international justice. He hailed her for dropping the case against former Cabinet Secretary Francis Muthaura. “She had the decency to initiate the withdrawal of the case when she realized it was no longer sustainable. She may sooner or later come forth and argue the case against Uhuru can no longer stand,” he said. At the ICC, Kaufman has represented Jean Pierre Bemba, the former Vice President of Congo DRC; and Callixte Mbarushimana, the Rwandan rebel leader who was acquitted of crimes against humanity last year. Kaufman represented victims in the case against Sudan President Omar al Bashir and held a brief for Kenyan blogger Dennis Itumbi when he was accused of hacking into the ICC system. He has represented Saadi Gaddafi, son of the deposed Libyan strongman Muammar Gaddafi, in his Niger extradition proceedings. In Ivory Coast, Kaufman has represented Charles Ble Goude, leader of the youth militia that helped keep in power former President Laurent Gbagbo, himself now on trial at the ICC. At the Yugoslavia Tribunal, Kaufman was a prosecutor against Gen Pavle Strugar of Montenegro, the Yugoslav commander convicted of an attack on the Croatian port of Dubrovnik in 1991. Meanwhile, Bensouda has completed her review of President Uhuru Kenyatta’s case as directed by the Trial Court. The Prosecutor informed the judges yesterday that her office had engaged in a thorough review of all material related to Uhuru’s case to minimize the scope of human error. Last month, the judges chided the prosecutor for failing to disclose certain materials to Uhuru. “The Prosecution undertook to individually review every relevant item in its possession regardless of the level of review each item had received in the past,” she said. All available investigative and prosecutorial staff were involved in the review. The staff all reviewed their email accounts for several years back to ensure that materials obtained or circulated via email were identified and registered for disclosure. In the Ruto case, the victim’s lawyer Wilfred Nderitu has insisted that the deputy President must be physically present at the Hague. In his written submissions, he said it would be against principle for the Court to allow an accused to be absent from his own trial “where the accused voluntarily or consciously decided to pursue political office in the full knowledge of the fact that he had been charged with international crimes before the Court.” “The traditional model of criminal litigation presupposes the incremental diminution of personal liberty in order to insure the integrity of the entire criminal process. It is for this reason, for instance- to take this to the extreme- that an accused person who is eventually convicted for serious crimes would not be sentenced to probation,” he said. Judge Chile Eboe-Osuji is now the presiding judge of Deputy President Ruto case following Judge Ozaki's withdrawal. Former presiding judge Kuniko Ozaki is now only the presiding judge of the Uhuru case. The two presiding judges were elected by their colleagues. www.the-star.co.ke/news/article-121998/uhuru-icc-case-will-collapse-prosecutor |
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Post by mintos on May 29, 2013 11:04:24 GMT 3
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Post by OtishOtish on May 29, 2013 15:44:30 GMT 3
...if this former ICC prosecutor is to be believed: .... It is common practice to leak stories & future outcomes slowly before hitting the general public with bad news. The urge to believe meets the urge to eat---big fish, not Itumbis. So Kaufman said all that, eh? Well then, consider the cases already collapsed. Inform Bensouda, Uhuru Defence, and Trial Chamber V(b); and let's all go home. By the way, when was he ever an ICC prosecutor? |
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on May 29, 2013 16:40:31 GMT 3
Nick Kaufman, who was a prosecutor at the International Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia |
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Post by Deleted on May 29, 2013 17:11:52 GMT 3
How Kenya is defying the Hague
GEOFFREY YORK
NAIROBI — THE GLOBE AND MAIL
Last updated Sunday, May. 26 2013, 9:43 PM EDT
Kenyan President Uhuru Kenyatta might be facing trial in The Hague on charges of crimes against humanity, but to his millions of supporters he remains a hero.
In their version of events, he is a humanitarian and an innocent victim of a vast Western conspiracy. “He was saving lives,” insists Dan Kamau, a member of the President’s Kikuyu ethnic group, surrounded by a group of approving friends in a Nairobi city park. “He was providing a police escort for aid to displaced people.”
Mercedes
The International Criminal Court (ICC) has a thick file of evidence to the contrary, alleging Mr. Kenyatta financed death squads in the bloodbath of violence after the 2007 election. But the question now is whether his case will ever be aired in court. With his mounting political power and his skill at gaining leverage from domestic supporters and foreign governments – including Canada’s – Mr. Kenyatta has become the biggest threat to the ICC in many years.
Votes from millions of people like Mr. Kamau helped him win Kenya’s presidential election in March despite the ICC indictment. Since then, he has gained key gestures of international acceptance, and no arrest warrant has been issued by any of the countries he has visited.
If he is able to keep defying the ICC, he could inflict heavy damage on the court’s credibility and influence, analysts say. The case could eventually crumble, showing that the ICC is powerless against a popular president. The ICC is already under frequent attack in Africa because of a perception that it unfairly targets Africans for prosecution, and a defeat in the Kenyatta case would be a further blow to its legitimacy.
Portraying himself as indispensable to the West’s strategic and business interests in East Africa, the new Kenyan President was rewarded with quick invitations to London and Cape Town, and an early visit from Canadian Foreign Minister John Baird.
Britain, which had threatened to limit itself to “essential contact” with Mr. Kenyatta if he won the election, soon reversed itself and invited him to a conference on Somalia this month. He was also welcomed on visits to South Africa and Ethiopia. And at a summit in Addis Ababa this week, the African Union is asking the ICC to drop its prosecution of the President, allowing Kenya to handle the case instead.
Eager to promote Canadian business and human-rights interests, Mr. Baird was among the first Western leaders to visit Kenya after Mr. Kenyatta was sworn into office, although he did not meet the President. His visit to Nairobi on May 14 was so early that he met his Kenyan counterpart, Amina Mohamed, several days before she had even been formally sworn in as Mr. Kenyatta’s foreign secretary.
“Canada is keen to explore opportunities to realize the full economic potential of trade with Kenya and the East African Community, especially for Canadian natural resource companies, which are becoming leaders in the Kenyan mining and oil and gas industries,” Mr. Baird’s office said during his visit.
Mr. Kenyatta’s visit to London was even more significant. Despite his status as an indicted suspect in crimes against humanity, Mr. Kenyatta was welcomed by British cabinet ministers and even by Prime Minister David Cameron (although Kenyans later complained that he was denied an official photo opportunity with the British leader). It was considered a major diplomatic coup for Mr. Kenyatta.
“Everyone else charged with crimes against humanity by the ICC has been arrested on sight and locked up to await trial,” said Richard Dowden, director of the Royal African Society, a London-based organization. “But instead of slipping on the handcuffs, Mr. Cameron grasped Mr. Kenyatta warmly by the hand and welcomed him to London.”
The only other sitting president to face charges of crimes against humanity is Omar al-Bashir of Sudan. But while Mr. al-Bashir is a pariah to the West and can only travel to a limited number of countries for fear of arrest, Mr. Kenyatta and his government are openly courted by Western leaders, implying that national interests can trump justice.
Mr. Kenyatta’s vice-president, William Ruto, is facing similar charges of crimes against humanity at The Hague in connection with the same post-election violence. Officially, both say they are “co-operating” with the ICC. But their supporters are doing their best to undermine the ICC and destroy its case.
The Kenyan government, in which Mr. Kenyatta was deputy prime minister before his election victory, has refused to provide key documents that the ICC has requested for the past three years. Witnesses have mysteriously disappeared or recanted their testimony, and some have been subjected to intimidation and attempted bribes, the ICC’s chief prosecutor Fatou Bensouda says.
The ICC has been repeatedly forced to postpone the trial dates for the Kenyan leaders. And a senior Kenyan diplomat has sent a 13-page letter to the UN Security Council, demanding the cancellation of the case. He warned of the danger of violence in Kenya and neighbouring countries if the case continues.
“The petition argues – incredibly – that Kenya would go down in flames if he was forced to go on trial,” said Makau Mutua, chairman of the Kenya Human Rights Commission. “The message is clear – leave us alone, or we’ll set the place on fire.”
www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/how-kenya-is-defying-the-hague/article12161678/?service=mobile
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Post by omundu on May 29, 2013 20:38:30 GMT 3
...if this former ICC prosecutor is to be believed: .... It is common practice to leak stories & future outcomes slowly before hitting the general public with bad news. The urge to believe meets the urge to eat---big fish, not Itumbis. So Kaufman said all that, eh? Well then, consider the cases already collapsed. Inform Bensouda, Uhuru Defence, and Trial Chamber V(b); and let's all go home. By the way, when was he ever an ICC prosecutor?My sentiments exactly. If indeed the cases collapse then well and good, there will be no more kelele over this because the courts would have found him inculpable. Kazi itaendelea and kenyans will at least celebrate the fact that they have a ruler who won't have that embarrassing cloud hanging over his head and the entire country. At least we won't have the entire rational world sneering and laughing at kenyans behind our backs for having a ruler of that nature. Some of us are blinded by whatever blinkers we have not to realize the world is looking at us in shock the way we laughed at americans for electing bush twice. But until then b6k, why then are the uhuruto duo running around like headless chicken trying desperately to clutch at any political straw that can offer relief. I am sure they have tried everything including getting close to anyone related to ICC. I think our embassy at the hague has been assigned an official duty to clutch at any straw that can aid the duo. That is their full time job, including attempting to find out anyone who can spin this issue for them thus kaufman. You also forget to emphasize that this kaufman fella worked as a lawyer for various suspects at the ICC after his brief stint as a prosecutor (he decided to go for the money) the article states that he even represented itumbi in some hacking case. There is definitely a link there in trying to spin issues for the sake of a paymaster. Jakaswanga had a post sometime about some lady in a western newspaper who was writting articles spinning in favour of uhuru. My last question would be why then have uhurus lawyers asked for more time to go throw the new evidence by bensouda ? Shouldn't they then just assume all is hunky dorry and just stroll in and out of court ? Spin or no spin the fact remains that the article is a complete antithesis to how the duo have been operating of late. If it were true, their body language and actions would show it. Ama ? |
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Post by OtishOtish on May 29, 2013 22:30:54 GMT 3
You also forget to emphasize that this kaufman fella worked as a lawyer for various suspects at the ICC after his brief stint as a prosecutor (he decided to go for the money) I was hoping to amuse myself with answers from Uhuruto supporters to my question. As far as I know he was employed by the OTP for no more than one year. (The circumstances of his leaving are unclear, but it was well before Ocampo got busy with the Kenyan cases.) Since then, he has been on the prowl. He had a brief stint representing Monst. Bemba at the ICC; that ended in unclear circumstances .... etc. etc. He even had a brief stint as Victim's Rep in the Kenyan cases; ended in unclear circumstances. So, back to the perps then ... With ICTR, ICTY, etc. winding down---and there never were big bucks there to start with---ICC is where the action is. Looking at the perps before the ICC, guess where the money is. And of the three, guess where the most money is. First start on the Kenyan chopping block was the hapless Itumbi, whose cheque must have cleared the bank very quickly. As Itumbi's money was getting eaten, someone had this to say: "Ole Tumbo, you have read it here, but if your sponsors have deep pockets, so what if Kaufman eats that money? It will just get you more publicity. Anyway, I disagree with those who state that it [the submission to the ICC] will go right into the dustbin. The Netherlands prides itself as an environmentally sensitive country, so I think it will first pass through Bensouda's back end and then go through the sewage-treatment system." and "We have no problem with Ole Tumbo 'seeking justice'. We are just telling him the obvious outcome. What's wrong with making comments? We have no problem with Ole Tumbo getting funded. Just pointing out to him and his sponsors that their money is getting eaten [by Kaufman] for nothing. What's wrong with that?"and "I know Kaufman's getting paid and Ole Tumbo will get nothing out of this. Kaufman will probably state some "noble" reason for eating all that money, but the practical result is the same, i.e. he pockets the loot, Ole Tumbo pockets "DISMISSED" and "REJECTED"nipate.com/journalist-dennis-itumbi-seeks-icc-compensation-for-unlawful-arrest-over-alleged-hacking-t16674.html(On Nipate, they like it rough-and-ready like that.) The court hardly bothered with the nonsense, but, of course, it had to be nice: "there is no need to make a specific finding that the illegality of the arrest is attributable to the prosecution, as distinct from an 'unauthorised folly' of the Kenyan authorities'.That was the last we heard of Mr. Kaufman. He has now resurfaced. Mr. Kaufman, welcome back to the Country of Eaters!. Good question. It does appear that the cases have collapsed---several times. And then collapsed some more. All of the witnesses have recanted and run away. Going by the Kenyan media over the last few months, one witnesses---a Mr. Kosgei---seems to have turned recanting into a full-time occupation: every few weeks, The Standard or The Daily Nation will tell you that he's done it again and again and again ... All the evidence is fake, purchased, will be destroyed in a minute, etc. Finally, Mr. Kaufman delivers the last nails into the coffin. So you can well imagine my surprise when I hear the Defence teams argue they haven't had the time to go through all the evidence that's been dumped on them in the last 6 months alone, that the hottest stuff and the identities of the corresponding witnesses are still being kept from them, .... that they absolutely must have more time to work on the most-collapsed-case ever at the ICC. |
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Post by b6k on May 30, 2013 11:44:17 GMT 3
Omundu/ Otishotish, even as you state that the case is strong (or has been collapsing several times), the writing on the wall is pretty clear. This case will eventually collapse. As the Canadian article shared by KK alludes to, the western leaders have tweaked their political stance and pragmatism is winning the day...denial of photo opp notwithstanding. Keep in mind the PNU side initially had 3 suspects in the dock. Now there is only one, & it's really going to be interesting to see how the OTP will weave its tale of a "common plan" when el presidente had no one to concoct his common plan with. Besides instead of taking what The Star reported at face value, why not hear what Kaufman himself actually said to CNBC Africa? The link below will take you to part 1 of his interview (& yes Otishotish he will give you his full CV on all things IC-something or other). Part 2 is even juicier as he gives his 411 on the Gadhaffi family, his current clients but Part 1 is the one that is relevant to the KE situation. www.abndigital.com/page/multimedia/video/political-exhange/1624142-African-Cases-before-the-International-Criminal-Court-Part-1
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Post by OtishOtish on May 30, 2013 16:00:27 GMT 3
Omundu/ Otishotish, even as you state that the case is strong (or has been collapsing several times), the writing on the wall is pretty clear. This case will eventually collapse. As the Canadian article shared by KK alludes to, the western leaders have tweaked their political stance and pragmatism is winning the day...denial of photo opp That's it, buddy. Collapse that sucker! Smash it with pragmatism! But make sure your man shows up for trial. This has been explained before, and you can see it in other cases before the court: it is not necessary that everyone involved in the "common plan" also be in the dock. The Document Containing Charges has been updated since Muthaura was let off the hook. I encourage you to read it, with particular attention to the part entitled "(i)Existence of an agreement or a common plan between two or more persons" |
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Post by mwalimumkuu on May 30, 2013 18:35:09 GMT 3
Omundu/ Otishotish, even as you state that the case is strong (or has been collapsing several times), the writing on the wall is pretty clear. This case will eventually collapse. As the Canadian article shared by KK alludes to, the western leaders have tweaked their political stance and pragmatism is winning the day...denial of photo opp notwithstanding. Keep in mind the PNU side initially had 3 suspects in the dock. Now there is only one, & it's really going to be interesting to see how the OTP will weave its tale of a "common plan" when el presidente had no one to concoct his common plan with. Besides instead of taking what The Star reported at face value, why not hear what Kaufman himself actually said to CNBC Africa? The link below will take you to part 1 of his interview (& yes Otishotish he will give you his full CV on all things IC-something or other). Part 2 is even juicier as he gives his 411 on the Gadhaffi family, his current clients but Part 1 is the one that is relevant to the KE situation. www.abndigital.com/page/multimedia/video/political-exhange/1624142-African-Cases-before-the-International-Criminal-Court-Part-1 B6K Anyone not involved in one way or another with the ICC's dealings can see exactly what this former prosecutor is seeing, the cases are collapsing. As we have said year time and again, the OTP bungled these cases from the get go, when they turned the whole thing into a political contest. The heat is on, I just read elsewhere the prosecutor is reportedly urging Kenya to engage the court legally on referral. UhuRuto must not pull their foot off the pedal, they should instead press it even harder. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ |
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Post by OtishOtish on May 30, 2013 22:27:23 GMT 3
The heat is on, I just read elsewhere the prosecutor is reportedly urging Kenya to engage the court legally on referral. He, he, he, ... someone just forwarded me a write-up of what Bensouda has supposedly said. All she has done is read out part of the Rome Statute that deals with Admissibility challenges, but you should sense the excitement it has caused! As far as I can tell, all Bensouda is saying is that the court understands only legal processes---not political drams. GoK has always been free to mount another Admissibility challenge. I imagine it has been difficult to do so, as it would have to explain away all those lies and stories it told in the first one. |
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Post by b6k on May 31, 2013 15:48:36 GMT 3
Omundu/ Otishotish, even as you state that the case is strong (or has been collapsing several times), the writing on the wall is pretty clear. This case will eventually collapse. As the Canadian article shared by KK alludes to, the western leaders have tweaked their political stance and pragmatism is winning the day...denial of photo opp That's it, buddy. Collapse that sucker! Smash it with pragmatism! But make sure your man shows up for trial. This has been explained before, and you can see it in other cases before the court: it is not necessary that everyone involved in the "common plan" also be in the dock. The Document Containing Charges has been updated since Muthaura was let off the hook. I encourage you to read it, with particular attention to the part entitled "(i)Existence of an agreement or a common plan between two or more persons" , I assure you our president (& by our I mean those of us who will stand, a fall by KE come what may even if we didn't vote for the current administration) will abide by court. Those of us who don't have the luxury of running into the arms of our foreign spouse's country's arms will stick around & make KE a better place, one day at a time. You can take that to the World Bank since you look down on your nose at the likes of Equity Bank. It is a work in progress...& even the current crop of kleptocrats will be contained...with time. Remember the old adage..."slowly slowly catchee monkey".... As for the common plan, knock yourself out on your reading exercises. Some of us are willing to wait for the outcomes, & deal with them once they are immanent.... |
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Post by b6k on May 31, 2013 16:04:35 GMT 3
Omundu/ Otishotish, even as you state that the case is strong (or has been collapsing several times), the writing on the wall is pretty clear. This case will eventually collapse. As the Canadian article shared by KK alludes to, the western leaders have tweaked their political stance and pragmatism is winning the day...denial of photo opp notwithstanding. Keep in mind the PNU side initially had 3 suspects in the dock. Now there is only one, & it's really going to be interesting to see how the OTP will weave its tale of a "common plan" when el presidente had no one to concoct his common plan with. Besides instead of taking what The Star reported at face value, why not hear what Kaufman himself actually said to CNBC Africa? The link below will take you to part 1 of his interview (& yes Otishotish he will give you his full CV on all things IC-something or other). Part 2 is even juicier as he gives his 411 on the Gadhaffi family, his current clients but Part 1 is the one that is relevant to the KE situation. www.abndigital.com/page/multimedia/video/political-exhange/1624142-African-Cases-before-the-International-Criminal-Court-Part-1 B6K Anyone not involved in one way or another with the ICC's dealings can see exactly what this former prosecutor is seeing, the cases are collapsing. As we have said year time and again, the OTP bungled these cases from the get go, when they turned the whole thing into a political contest. The heat is on, I just read elsewhere the prosecutor is reportedly urging Kenya to engage the court legally on referral. UhuRuto must not pull their foot off the pedal, they should instead press it even harder. ~~ Mwalimumkuu @nyumbakubwa ~~ Mwalimumkuu, the one point I agree with the ICC on is that it's a judicial process, not a political one. That said, even a judicial process that is fundamentally flawed will collapse eventually. Even Justice Christine Van den Wyngaert gave a scathing opinion as to the workings of the Ocampo led OTP when she reluctantly concurred that the case must proceed even with all its obvious shortcomings: jurist.org/paperchase/138245541-International-Criminal-Court-Annex-2-Decision-on-Defence-Application-Pursuant-to-Article-64-4-and-Related-Requests.pdfThe fact remains, the suspects are innocent until proven guilty & no amount of labeling a la the ODM mode of crying wolf will make it otherwise. Let the court decide based purely on the evidence.... |
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Post by OtishOtish on May 31, 2013 17:04:35 GMT 3
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Post by podp on May 31, 2013 18:37:32 GMT 3
This is the question that should bother Uhuru and Ruto more than anyone, and the hope of some of us that now they are at the top, other than fighting to extricate themselves from the ICC charges, they would also deploy the same zeal and energy to get to the bottom of these crimes. The process starts with settling the Internally Displaced Persons, some of who have since sired and delivered children in torn tents, set up in dirty and often flooded camps. This is important for Uhuru and Ruto, because even if they succeed in stopping the ICC, the perception set up by Ocampo would follow them to their graves. It is in the interest of Kenya and these two leaders to not only fight for their own justice but also that of the victims of the violence. www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000084828&story_title=president-uhuru-deputy-president-ruto-must-also-seek-justice-for-victims&pageNo=2 |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 1, 2013 5:04:36 GMT 3
Podp:
PEV victims? IDPs? Does anybody really care? Today I carried out a little exercise that involved going through the "outputs" of the Kenyan media (especially the "serious" ones) in the matter of the ICC cases. Try it and see how many articles and comments there are that are about PEV victims and IDPs. I suppose even journalists at the Daily Nation, the Standard ... need to eat. And it's an Eating Country.
In the meantime substantial effort and significant national resources are focused on what Uhuruto must now think of as the Zombie Cases: They get hit with all sorts of bullets, grenades, flame-throwers, bombs ... and we are told that they have collapsed and are out of it. But a few minutes later, there they are! Still marching towards their target! Damn.
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Post by b6k on Jun 1, 2013 15:56:47 GMT 3
Otishotish, from Uhuru himself on this BBC video while he was in Cape Town recently. He will cooperate with the court until it gets to "its logical conclusion"...aka an acquittal: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22520358
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 2, 2013 4:57:40 GMT 3
Otishotish, from Uhuru himself on this BBC video while he was in Cape Town recently. He will cooperate with the court until it gets to "its logical conclusion"...aka an acquittal: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22520358 We look at the deeds, not the words. |
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Post by b6k on Jun 2, 2013 17:28:39 GMT 3
Otishotish, from Uhuru himself on this BBC video while he was in Cape Town recently. He will cooperate with the court until it gets to "its logical conclusion"...aka an acquittal: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22520358 We look at the deeds, not the words. , my guy  |
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Post by mank on Jun 2, 2013 22:28:58 GMT 3
Otishotish, from Uhuru himself on this BBC video while he was in Cape Town recently. He will cooperate with the court until it gets to "its logical conclusion"...aka an acquittal: www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-22520358 We look at the deeds, not the words. Njakip, Might you be suggesting that Junior's actions are contradicting his words? If so, please elaborate on the actions. Bens has has lost all credibility, so don't just recite her unsubstantiated claims. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 2, 2013 23:40:51 GMT 3
Njakip, Might you be suggesting that Junior's actions are contradicting his words? If so, please elaborate on the actions. He has: * Sent his bulldog to New York, to bark ferociously and insultingly at world leaders. * He has put his Warrior Teaboy on a luxury jet and sent him on yet another round of Scuttle Diplomacy. * He has rallied his friends at the Africans for Uselessness to insult the world and especially victims of the worst crimes known to humanity. * He has purchased the Kenyan media (and others who have access to it) to howl endlessly on his behalf and against the ICC. * Etc. To my mind, all that's a very funny sort of cooperation. The fact is that your man has no intention of showing up for his trial and is busy concoting (or paying to have concocted) lame excuses that will justify his refusal to face justice. |
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Post by mank on Jun 3, 2013 0:03:47 GMT 3
Njakip, Might you be suggesting that Junior's actions are contradicting his words? If so, please elaborate on the actions. He has: * Sent his bulldog to New York, to bark ferociously and insultingly at world leaders. * He has put his Warrior Teaboy on a luxury jet and sent him on yet another round of Scuttle Diplomacy. * He has rallied his friends at the Africans for Uselessness to insult the world and especially victims of the worst crimes known to humanity. * He has purchased the Kenyan media (and others who have access to it) to howl endlessly on his behalf and against the ICC. * Etc. To my mind, all that's a very funny sort of cooperation. The fact is that your man has no intention of showing up for his trial and is busy concoting (or paying to have concocted) lame excuses that will justify his refusal to face justice. Funny indeed, Njakip. But that's what you make it, with such stretches of logic. You are suggesting that a desire to bring the cases to an end is itself evidence of failed cooperation. Cooperation fails only when a party willingly fails to go in the direction of the other - not when it indicates its own favoured direction, begging the other to go along. Seen? If these guys have not come short of any request from The Hague, then no one can reasonably say that they have failed to cooperate. Impartiality requires that you defend even your enemy when s/he is unjustly prosecuted. |
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Post by OtishOtish on Jun 3, 2013 0:20:46 GMT 3
Friend Mank:
Time will tell, but I think the furious struggle to avoid the court is only just beginning; watch the Kenyan media in the next few months. Note that I have not actually accused of not cooperating. What I have stated, and even started a thread on some weeks ago, is that he is getting ready (and preparing Kenyans) for his *eventual* non-cooperation.
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Post by mank on Jun 3, 2013 0:48:33 GMT 3
Friend Mank: Time will tell, but I think the furious struggle to avoid the court is only just beginning; watch the Kenyan media in the next few months. Note that I have not actually accused of not cooperating. What I have stated, and even started a thread on some weeks ago, is that he is getting ready (and preparing Kenyans) for his *eventual* non-cooperation. Well said, friend Njakip. Time will tell. May objectivity be guide in our analysis of how the duelling sides are going about the legal combat. |
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Post by b6k on Jun 3, 2013 10:59:21 GMT 3
Friend Mank: Time will tell, but I think the furious struggle to avoid the court is only just beginning; watch the Kenyan media in the next few months. Note that I have not actually accused of not cooperating. What I have stated, and even started a thread on some weeks ago, is that he is getting ready (and preparing Kenyans) for his *eventual* non-cooperation. Well said, friend Njakip. Time will tell. May objectivity be guide in our analysis of how the duelling sides are going about the legal combat. ...& in yet another futile bid to further assist his non-cooperation stance, Uhuru recently met secretly with US Secretary of State, John Kerry during the AU summit at Addis Ababa to push his agenda forward....  www.standardmedia.co.ke/?articleID=2000084571&story_title=african-leaders-condemn-icc-casesNo photos were taken, just the way the western powers like it! |
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