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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 18, 2011 23:18:48 GMT 3
SOMALI WAR & THE CURSE OF AFRICA Here is Part I for those who missed it. jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=general&action=display&thread=6097&page=1Part II of the series on Somalia. By Adongo Ogony Like many African countries the fate of present day Somali was first framed at the Berlin Conference in 1884 which was called by Portugal and organized by Otto Von Bismarck the first Chancellor of Germany. The vultures at work. Pay attention to the African map on the wall. With the lucrative benefits of slave trade dwindling the powerful Western Countries at the time were jostling to build colonial empires in Africa. Britain, Germany, Portugal, France, Belgium, Italy and myriad other countries were getting into conflicts trying to curve our spheres of influence where they could make Africans work for them, this time not in plantations abroad but right in their own lands. There was also the scramble for minerals, timber and all sorts of resources so abundant in Africa. To avoid a war between the Western countries they resolved to hold a meeting to divide the continent. That conference was held in Berlin in 1884. This is how Prof. Ngugi wa Thiong’o described the Berlin conference in a speech he gave in Toronto in 1991. “In the Berlin conference, the European powers literally curved up Africa and allocated themselves areas of domination………..What followed was the order of colonial slavery at the economic, political and cultural levels” Before this hideous atrocity on Africa, Somali people straddled a colossal amount of land in the Horn of Africa. When they woke up after the Berlin Conference Somalia had been divided into five different countries and the roots of turmoil and deprivation among the Somali population was planted with detrimental consequences that persist to this day. The Somali region was divided into French Somalia (presently Djibouti), British Somalia (presently Somaliland), Italian Somalia (today’s battleground), Ethiopian Somalia ( today’s Ogaden) and Northern Frontier District then under British and now part of Kenya Imagine neighbours and families waking up one morning and finding they are in two or three different countries all controlled by foreign countries they do not even know. That is what happened to Somali folk in 1884. Somali folks call it the five Somalis Note the independent block is what was given to Ethiopia and look at the mess Somali people end up with. [/i] Also we an see that in the case of Somali all the colonial powers wanted a piece of the sea for ports of course. The British got it, the French got it and the Italians got it as well. Poor Ethiopia was the one left out, but they were still lucky, being the only country in Africa not colonised. Like all other African countries, the Somali people fought against colonial rule. In June 1960 British Somalia achieved its independence. This was followed by the Italian Somalia which achieved its independence in July 1960. In the same year Somaliland and Somalia (formerly Italian Somalia) held a referendum to become one country. The referendum was successful and the Republic of Somalia was born. Aden Abdulla Ossman then became the first president of Somalia and ruled from 1960-1964. From 1964 Abdi Ali Sarmake became the president. On October 15, 1969, President Sarmake was assassinated in the town of Lasanod in present day Somaliland. This created a power vacuum and by Oct 21, 1969 Siad Barre a military General took power. For 2-3 years Siad Barre united all of Somali. Siad Barre then embarked on ambitious projects to modernize Somali. There were massive construction works building ports, infrastructure, schools and helping establish thriving agricultural activities. At this time Siad Barre was adored by the people of Somalia. Siad Barre then become a friend of the Soviet Republics and declared Somalia a socialist country. This is the cold war era and socialism was in vogue even to those who had no clue what socialism is all about. By early 1970’s Siad Barre runs into problems with Islamic leaders and scholars who were for the most part apolitical. They did not mind the secular state Siad Barre was building but they told him that communism and Islam does not mix. In response to the criticism from the clerics, Siad Barre ordered the public execution of eight leading Muslim Scholars in Mogadishu. People were invited to watch the spectacle. Big mistake by Siad Barre because that becomes the first time people of Somali see Siad Barre as a dangerous dictator and not as the nationalist they thought he was.Before a full fledged conflict with Muslim folks in Somali materializes, a war breaks out between Ethiopia and Somalia. Siad Barre is begged by other “socialist” countries including Libya (under Gadhafi) and Yemen to stop the war. He refuses and in a short order the Somali forces had captured half of Ethiopia and are threatening to seize the whole country from Mengitsu. An agitated Leonid Brezhnev, the Presidium of the Soviet Republics summons Siad Barre to Moscow and tells him to stop the war with Ethiopia. Siad Barre tells Brezhnev that it is not him attacking the Ethiopians but rather it is Somali freedom fighters over which he has no control. This was a joke because Somali tanks, many given to them by the Soviets were deep in Ethiopian territory. Brezhnev then gave a warning to Siad Barre and ordered him to take the troops out of Ethiopia or else face the consequences. After Siad Barre never heeded the warning, Brezhnev ordered all Soviet Military personnel in Somalia to go help Ethiopia. What followed was a complete defeat of Somali forces in Ethiopia. A desperate Siad Barre pleads with the Americans for help. The US also worried about Soviet influence in the region see this as an opportunity. A deal struck with the help of NATO to let Somali soldiers retreat safely. Somali is allowed to go back to its original boundaries and Siad Barre switches his allegiance to the US but it is too late for him. From 1977 following the complete demolition of the Somali forces, the state loses control of everything including arms and the military soldiers themselves. By 1980 almost every household in Somalia had arms and ammunition. Between 1980 and 1991 when there is eleven years of absolute chaos and anarchy as Barre refuses to relinquish power. Lawlessness becomes the order everywhere in Somalia. Inflation sky rockets and the economy pretty much collapses. In the chaos that Siad Barre visited upon the people of Somali, people naturally fell back to their tribes and clans for safety. It is interesting that a progressing and developing Somalia from 1960 – 1980 had no problems with tribes and clans, in fact they held a referendum to create the Republic of Somalia. It was the chaos and lawlessness brought about by Siad Barre that drove people to take cover within their tribes and clans. That is contrary to the popular myth that Somali’s problem is mainly tribe and clans. Many Kenyans believe that even though looking at Kenya even today and more so in the horrific 2007 PEV we can clearly see we have even bigger problems with tribes and clans. I will come back to that later. In terms of tribes, Somali has three main tribes, namely the Darod, Hawiye and Rahnweiyin each of which constitutes one roughly one third of the population. The tribes are themselves divided into sub tribes and clans forming a labyrinth of community connections. Siad Barre was from the Darod tribe and during the war Siad Barre first targeted Northern Somalia where he ruthlessly bombarded the two main cities of Hargesa and the port city of Barbera. In the war against Siad Barre, the Darod tribe in the Northern Somalia refused to join because Siad Barre was one of them. The sub tribe of Isaaq took the fight to Barre and after the collapse of the Barre regime, Northern Somalia wanted nothing to do with the Republic of Somalia. When Somaliland was established the Darod tribe constituting almost one third of Somaliland objected to being part of Somaliland. They were offered positions of leadership within the government of Somaliland and they agreed to join making it clear that they will explore other options. That option by the Darod of the North was realized when Abdullahi Yusuf formed Puntland in the North East corner before he became the first president of the TFG. The neighbouring Darod communities in Somaliland opted out of Somaliland and became part of Puntland and that remains the status quo as we speak. A significant development in Puntland emerges when Abdullahi Yusuf helps to draft a law which outlawed any form of tribal intolerance among the different tribal communities in Puntland. That law is still effective and has made a big difference in Puntland and more so in the strategic port of Bosasso which is the economic heart beat of Puntland. Which brings me to the issue of Somali’s economic survival. The Political Economy of Somalia. Starting with the strategic port of Bosasso, mentioned above one gets a picture of a country with a limitless capacity to build ports that can serve the entire Eastern Africa region. Bosasso port is one of the most unique anywhere in the world. It is a stone throw away from the Arab Gulf Countries known as the Gulf of Aden. Same applies to the port of Barbera which also recieves goods directly from Dubai. This means it is very cheap and fast to ship goods including crude oil from the Gulf Countries to the ports of Bosasso and Barbera. Such goods can then be moved inland to the rest of Somalia and to other countries and a very low cost. Today the port of Bosasso is legendary for its efficiency where goods are processed in days. Everything in Bosasso port moves very fast with very little bureaucracy and red tape. The duty charged is minimal and this has made the port a favourite for many importers in Somalia and neighbouring countries. But the gift of Bosasso to the people of Somalia is the peace and harmony enjoyed by the residents who include the Hawiye, the Darod and others. Something very good is happening in Bosasso that could be emulated by other parts of the country. In the bigger picture Somalia enjoys one of the longest coastlines for a country its size. Somali has over 3,500 km of coastline which has made Somalia one of the few countries in Africa with multiple ports. They have the port of Barbera to the North, Port of Bosasso in the North East corner, Mogadishu port complex and two seaports in Kismayu. Today only Barbera and Bosasso are fully functioning ports with Mogadishu and Kismayu pretty much overrun by pirates and other illegal cartels. The Somali coastline is also very rich in fish and has the potential to create one of the most lucrative fishing industries in the world if utilised well. Piracy and Fishing: Many people think pirates simply took over Somali Coastline from nowhere and started catching ships and making millions of dollars. The truth is a little more complex than that. Piracy was a by product of the struggles by Somali fishing communities to get fish from the sea. With the demise of the fishing industry in Somalia after the Siad Barre collapse small communities had to rely on themselves to catch fish for a living. As Somali disintegrated, the Somali coastline became a haven for illegal fishing trawlers. They were all over the place with Chinese, Greek, Pakistani, Italian, Taiwanese illegal fishing trawlers in Somali waters. Somali villagers were being chased from their own waters everyday. The villagers then formed themselves into groups and went fishing armed with guns to protect themselves. In the course of all these one day the Somali fishermen stops a ship they thought was with the illegal trawlers. The shocked ship crew with no means to ward off the fishermen ends up offering $ 500,000.00 to be let go. Stunned fishermen race to the shoreline and split the money. Then word went around like wildfire. Money was flowing from the sea if you could capture a ship. That was the word. So what started as a means of survival for fishing communities explodes into a completely new thing.As soon as word swept the land all sorts of organized criminal groups took over. People were now being hired to go seize ships and they were doing it in spectacular numbers. Speed boats and sophisticated arms were brought in. Rich pirates many of them Somalis were making a killing and building mansions like there was no tomorrow. Puntland was having first class resort mansions in the beaches. At its peak the pirates were now operating internationally with agents working in the ports of departure sending info on ships to the pirates as they left heading in that direction. Piracy became the a billion dollar industry and its effects spread all over East Africa, mainly Kenya. Today sea piracy has declined almost to a standstill because of war ships stationed all over the Somali Coastline. In away this is what led to kidnapping of foreigners by pirates used to big money and now forced off the Somali Coastline. General Economy There is one fact one finds when looking into how the Somali folks have survived without a country. Somali and its people are not destitute even though we know a city like Mogadishu today looks like a dump site littered here and there with villas and presidential palaces. Life for ordinary Somali is pure hell today but on the whole Somali people and its cultures are thriving in Somalia, in East Africa and in the whole world. One third of Somali people live in the Diaspora. The Diaspora Somali community today remits about $ 2 billion a year back to their country. For a population of less than 10 million people that is very significant. But a word of caution I got from concerned Somali folks is that the majority of those sending money back home are the older generation who fled Somalia and left family members. That population is dwindling and their resources are getting limited. The younger generation born outside have no organic relationship with any family members back home. In fact a friend of mine told me that his kids accuse him of throwing money in the garbage whenever he sends money back to the country. So this resource is not limitless.But for the most part it is the entrepreneur spirit of the Somali people that is legendary and that keeps the community going. That spirit of entrepreneurship is most evident in Kenya when our Somali brothers and sisters have become great pillars of the economy in many lines business like transportation, real estate, telecommunications and the hotel business or food industry in general. That is replicated all over the world. There are thriving Somali businesses everywhere. Even with the collapse of formal governments in many parts of Somalia the people with the help of the Diaspora compatriots have set up their own banking system, the HAWALA system being the most widespread. HAWALA is the western union. It is in every corner in Somalia and through it Somali folk are part of the global banking system which no modern economy can do without. Then there is the new zero interest SAHAL banking in which money is transferred instantly by phone and not a penny is charged as interest. That is picking up and may soon take over from HAWALA which charges 5% interest. Conclusion: To understand the complex situation we have tried to piece together one has to get to the title of this essay, specifically the one about “the curse of Africa”. What is this curse? Simple. Every thug and dictator who has messed our countries comes to us like liberators. They are coming to rescue us from misery and bad politics. They are coming to help us remove terrible leaders. In the 1960s they came as freedom fighters freeing our countries from colonial rule. In the 1ate 1960s and 1970s many of them called themselves socialists and revolutionaries. As soon as they take power the turn into monsters and destroy countries and their peoples. That has been the case all over Africa and Somali is not an exception and neither is it unique.The replacement of genuine Pan Africanism rooted in the aspirations and the needs of the African people with expansionist mercenary regimes supported by various powers from the West and the East has been extremely harmful to our continent and its peoples. I dare anybody to show me one instant where it has succeeded either for the dictatorial expansionists or the region and most of all the people. Not in Libya. Not in Ethiopia. Not in Uganda and certainly not in Somalia. Nowhere has this terrible doctrine succeeded. Kenya has to be very wary of that as the war with Somalia begins to look like it is going to take a long time with no end in sight. We have to embrace the ideals of organic democratic transformations in our countries and in countries in conflict like Somalia without imposing external solutions with the power of the barrel. History tells us that will never work and it has consequences that are very dire for all sides. We have to embrace the values of self determination for countries and communities, democratic reforms and practices, ending political thuggery of all kinds, encouraging gender equity and diversity and freedom of religion among others. Those are the values that must inform a democratic transformation in Somalia. It means working with all communities to empower them to take control of their political, economic and cultural fate as nations and as communities. This requires a tireless and consistent work and not just big guns and drones. Let the leadership emerge from these communities as opposed to imposed leadership. If that happens then the real work to rebuild a peaceful and prosperous Somalis shall have began in full earnest.It is also very critical to engage the Somali civil society groups both abroad and at home so that they can shape the discourse on what help Somali folks need to save their country. It is not for the outsiders to tell them what they need. There is a growing and visible Somali civil society groups. They have to be brought in instead of just juggling between warlords who are essentially a big part of the problem. The one thing we have to avoid as Kenyans is hypocrisy. Look at Somalia and look at Kenya. We are at war in Somalia to get rid of bad people who kill their fellow citizens in Somalia and yet in our country people who have been accused of mass murder and rape of Kenyan citizens walk around like kings and demand to lead us after having made sure that they are untouchable and are above the laws of Kenya. Our leaders are at The Hague for inciting the worst forms of tribal violence. Our leaders are at each other’s throats everyday fighting for tribal supremacy. Who will bomb sense into us like we are trying to do in Somalia? That is the question I want to leave of Jukwaa folks with as we contemplate the consequences and solutions to the “CURSE OF AFRICA”.Note: This is still work in progress.
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Post by tnk on Nov 18, 2011 23:49:29 GMT 3
brilliant piece
adongo at one time there was mention of a "general morgan" who was this man and what happened to him and his soldiers?
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 19, 2011 0:22:16 GMT 3
brilliant piece adongo at one time there was mention of a "general morgan" who was this man and what happened to him and his soldiers? tnk,General Morgan whose real name is Mohammed Said Hersi Morgan was Siad Barre's minister of defense at some point and a commander of the Siad Barre forces in Mogadishu. Later he moved to Kismayu when things fell apart and committed atrocities down there. He was the very epitome of evil. He somehow ended up in Nairobi in the peace negotiations then walked away in protest. He has since been declared a wanted war criminal. I have no idea whether he is alive or dead but I will find that out over the weekend when I talk to the Somali folks. They have been waiting for part two of the series and I will get their feedback. Thanks for your kind words. I know the piece is long but I am not known for precision in essays. I only do that when I write for newsapapers and magazines where I have limits on the word count. I also had to finish this today and I had no time to do my second and thirs edits. Have a nice weekend my friend.
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 19, 2011 10:43:20 GMT 3
Adongo, If I may add a paragraph to the commercial history. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- POLITICAL ECONOMY: THE CASE OF AL-BARHAKAAT -(A TOTALLY PRIVATE CENTRAL BANK!)
FINANCIAL HOLOCAUST IN SOMALIA: THE USA KILLS AL-BARHAKAAT BANK.
After that 11th of september when Al Qaeda hit the twin towers of New York, an event of more importance to Somali and her peoples would unfold. This was the killing of the Al Bharakaat Bank, after a US orchestrated freeze on her international accounts. I have come to think of this act as a financial holocaust for that war-ravaged country.
It would be comparible to the freezing of the Federal reserve accounts in the USA, the custodian of the dollar and the Bank of banks: not only the banker of American banks, but of international and other central banks too. The epicenter of the financial planetary system. That was Al Barhakaat in the Somali situation.
From the simple mandazi seller on the streets of nowhere, to the big warlord expecting remmittances from Islamic relief funds in the gulf; from money lenders to loanees, to salary adminstrations of the multiferous AID and UN bodies that were active in Somalia, this bank did service. Al Barakaat was so well the central bank of Somalia, as well as the retail, savings, commercial and investment bank [Massive telecoms and light food industry]. It also run a pension service. Her bonds [cheques or IOU credit cards] were as good as legal currency. All big and small financial services centered on her. Her true role was that of a central bank and a peoples bank. At a business of $350 Million annually corruption free in a war zone of no government in a collapsed state of no narcotics and oil, this was an achievement which surpasses most of peaceful African countries. Necessity being the mother of..
Truth be told, by now, If she had not been necked, and she had on the sidelines entered into laundering pirate money over the past decade, with legendary Somalian thrift I suspect Al Bharakaat would now be the largest commercial enterprise in Afrika. And she would have outrun Western Union and Moneygram out of Africa. In anycase her founder, Ahmed Nur Jim-aale, had plans to have her develop to rival any ... international bank you may have heard of. [Not the ones kept afloat by taxpayers though].
Assume 90% of Kenyan economy is remmittances from the diaspora and it all comes through one company, say Western Union. Then one morning all her operations are stopped. Wouldn't that meltdown be a fiscal holocaust?
The USA killed this in one single blow. Forcing [Abu Dhabi] United Arab Emirates police to confiscate up to the non-cash reserves at the Gulf Headquarters. What they did not know, is that they would wipe out a whole secular commercial class, and the islamists, because of their religious lineage and reputation for non corruption, would be elevated to a monopoly in commercial services, merging radical islam to radical economic sucess, a deadly combination. This single characteristic of honesty in the midst of war and chaos and corruption, temporarily gave the islamists a power in Somali unmatchable. Remmittances could be channeled home on the basis of trust alone: Hawalla. As corrupt Kenyans used to swindling, we can not comprehend a financial system running micro-economically on trust. A M-PESA without your mobile codes...
The dissappearance of' Barakaat institution also re-enforced the clan infrastructure, as interclan trust became poweful avenue for the relay remmitances from the diaspora. Clan bankers emerged as powerful men who would financially underwrite the various political alliances.
To date I am not aware if the USA refunded and compensated the duped clients, and ruined owners of the bank.
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Post by Daktari wa makazi on Nov 19, 2011 13:09:29 GMT 3
AdongoInteresting article. Your source is from Puntland and have fed you some baloney propaganda. Puntland is the headquarters of piracy. I understand they call it 'a trade'. So I was not surprised when your source said through you, A little point of correction - Bossaso port is actually in Somaliland, a region which has run its affairs independently from the South Somalia. Somaliland has its own govt, had several elections and runs a very healthy economy with a capital at Hargeisa. Dhahabshill which took over from Al-Barakaat runs a bank in Somaliland - the same Dhahabshill which is a leader in money remittance, with a big office in Nairobi. Somaliland has well-placed infrastructure - frequent airlines to Nairobi and other destinations including direct flight to Middle East and Europe. The major setback which befell Somaliland is that it has not be recognised as independent state. Puntland, in the other hand, is an enclave where no serious elections have taken place, no known govt operates, nor do they have any given organised state machinery other than militia supported by piracy money. I am told they have big rich man who made himself president after Abdulahi Yusuf died. It is this man who controls everything in Puntland - include who enters that enclave. You, as a journalist, may be interested in this link, www.cpj.org/2011/11/invoking-security-puntland-bans-two-tv-stations.phpSomaliland is led by a govt elected this year after the previous one lost in 2010 election. They have had over four president since their inception. They have healthy multiparty politics with thriving universities - University of Hargeisa being the major one. Many UN and NGOs have offices there, some serving the whole of Somalia. Check out their active news website, somalilandpress.com/
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 19, 2011 18:10:02 GMT 3
Sadik,
This piece is not about the competition and propaganda between Somaliland and Puntland. I know those things and they are not my focus.
The focus of this piece and the one before it is to help us understand the situation in Somalia where our country is now at war. We are trying to understand the history of this country or countries. Is it that much different from ours dating back to colonialism and neocolonialism. It looks like we have a lot in common.
We also want to do away with stereotypes and generalisations which are cheap by the dozen and quite useless. That is why when you talk about Puntland as an "enclave" of piracy you miss the boat by ten miles. I have delved into the history of piracy in Somalia and in case you don't know piracy in the Indian Ocean is practically dead. The warships put an end to that. Many of the pirates have moved south to Kismayu. Of course they have a lot of property including resorts and beach side villas in Puntland just as they have a lot of property in every part of Kenya.
In terms of Somaliland, of course we know it is a country. I have said that a thousand times. In fact a good friend of mine is travelling to Hargesia in about a week. But that is not my focus either. We are not at war with Somaliland. I bring all aspects of Somali life to help us get a grip about the terrain we are dealing with but our emphasis is the Somali where are at war. We have to know what is going on there and where we are heading with this thing.
The key issue for us as country is to know what really are the intentions of Kenya in this war. That is why I have raised concerns about any inkling of an expansionist agenda. Is there one? If there is it is doomed to fail with serious consequences.
I am pleading with my compatriots to urge their country to have an agenda rooted in helping to facilitate a democratic transformation in Somalia and letting the people of Somalia be involved in the process of making their country better. We must not nurture any ambitions of territorial acquisitions of any nature. I don't want to hear about buffer zones. What the heck is that? Some bantustan puppet mini state? We don't need that.
In my next and probably last piece on this I will talk about the Somali civil society and human rights movement which dates back to the Siad Barre days and is growing stronger today. What is their role in this new set of circumstances? That is coming soon.
For now I just wanted us to take a good hard look at our neighbours and try to understand what is going on there and where we come in. Thank you.
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Post by jakaswanga on Nov 20, 2011 11:48:50 GMT 3
And another paragraph on ideological decay...
FROM SIAD BARRE TO WARLORDS AND JIHADISTS
After the Ogaden defeat and Soviet jilting, and exacerbated economic woes, Somalia goes West and has to carry out the IMF packet of reform, privatisation on the top.
Siad Barre has become politically bankrupt, and for all his socialist rhetoric, the state has is just a means of accumulation by millitarised expropriation.
The loot was invested in a narrow clique of his own clan, and even amongst his clan, chiefly amongst his family line. In this period of so called economic reform, under IMF tutelage, he issued title deeds in most urban somalia to his cronies, and was on the look out for new areas to expand. These became foreign aid, the livestock trade up north, the Jubba valley of fertile agriculture, and sea commerce centered along the endless coastline. Barre was scraping the bottom of the barrel, and alienating everybody. Massacres up north on the Majeerteen and Isaaqs are well documented.
His nationalism became even more hollow, his chief organisation mode reverted to clanism, with the Duub Cas [Red Caps] commandos specifically recruited from his Marehan clan frequently on murder rampages. This [clanishness] too would be the first practical form of organisation against his rule. Hawiyes majorly under Gen. Farah Aideed in United Somali Congress [USC], majorly Isaaq Somali National Movement [SNM], and majorly Majeerten Somali Salvation Democratic front [SSDF]. And so too would the other millitia organise themselves clanically, and warlords emerge at their top.
As the debate raged amongst Islamic clerics whether they needed their own islamic armed wing, the established clerics decided they did not, but some dissidents, and the men called AL-AFGHANIS, read the situation differently and organised discreetly. War was on and during war, better be armed than otherwise.
It was the fight for the carcass in an ideological vacuum, that condensced the organisation according to the primary form, clan. And on the other side, Islamism would replace pan Somalism.
Are the 1884 Berlin Borders forever inAfrica? Every nationalism must face this question, sooner or later.
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 22, 2011 19:27:47 GMT 3
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Post by furaha on Nov 22, 2011 20:47:01 GMT 3
Thanks Adongo. The fear of clans carving up the country is justified. Look at this NY Times article by Jeffrey Gettleman of 9 September 2011. It seems the carving up started well before Kenya intervened. And indeed, looking at Somalia's recent history this is what one would expect, alas. Moreover, the lack of an acceptable and credible government at central level is likely to assist the 'carving up' process. Kenyan and Ethiopian support for the weak and corrupt TFG will encourage the clans and their war lords to strike out on their own. www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/world/africa/10somalia.html?_r=1&ref=jeffreygettlemanFuraha
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 23, 2011 1:23:52 GMT 3
Thanks Adongo. The fear of clans carving up the country is justified. Look at this NY Times article by Jeffrey Gettleman of 9 September 2011. It seems the carving up started well before Kenya intervened. And indeed, looking at Somalia's recent history this is what one would expect, alas. Moreover, the lack of an acceptable and credible government at central level is likely to assist the 'carving up' process. Kenyan and Ethiopian support for the weak and corrupt TFG will encourage the clans and their war lords to strike out on their own. www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/world/africa/10somalia.html?_r=1&ref=jeffreygettlemanFuraha Furaha,A few things are interesting from the NYT story you have posted. It concurs with the ideas we have been concerned about, namely that managing peace has been harder than managing war in Somalia since 1991. It seems every time an opportunity presented itself for peaceful and democratic solutions even worse wars broke out and it has gone on to this day. The NYT article talks about the break down as late as September this year. It could be worse if the present situation is not managed properly. Secondly the evolution of tribes and clans as the centres of political power and armed conflict may look like it has been part of Somali political culture for eternity but in reality as my piece pointed out and partly explained by Warah's piece, tribal and clan identity merged with politics in Somalia only after communities faced chaos and threats. People took cover in their tribes and clans as they faced Siad Barre's ruthless wars and given what has followed that shift has taken a life of its own. Now it is a big problem but it still can be solved. Strangely enough Al Shabaab and the Islamic Courts before them are proof positive that faced with a common enemy and infused with a common agenda, Somalis are very capable of coming together across tribes and clans. The Islamic courts united clans and tribes to fight the warlords and succeeded. Al Shabaab too as horrible as their agenda is have no tribe. Uniting against Al Shabaab is something that can bring many Somalis together. I saw pictures of Somali youth pouring into the beaches of Mogadishu for the first time in three years safe in the knowledge that there will be no Al Shabaab bombs dropping on their heads. I am sure those kids come from different tribes and clans but they are all having a great time. That Somali is possible and it is within reach. Most of these young people have been born in the captivity of endless wars. Give them a future and they will change Somalia forever and for the better. They know what it means to live in captivity. Somali Youth Pour Into The Beaches Of Mogadishu For The First Time In Three Years. Finally the one issue that has been raised many times is that peaceful process about Somali often collapse because they are cooked outside and then forced fed to the Somali. I have a suggestion. Once things settle down why can't the key players try a new strategy. Hold Somali peace talks and processes in Somalia. For example in the South let Prof. Gandhi, Madobe etc and their friends and even foes sort their issues in the South and work with the TFG as partners for peace. Let Somali local leaders and delegates make these decisions and choose their interim leaders right inside their country and let them mop up with TFG and form a credible respected national authority that can move the country foward. Last but not least. I am confused about Kenya either having joint operations with AMISOM or other reports of Kenya and Ethiopia joining AMISOM to fight Al Shabaab as this stories suggest: www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000047130&cid=4&ttl=US%20supports%20Kenya,%20Ethiopia%20joining%20Amisom%20forces www.nation.co.ke/News/Kenya+and+Amisom+plan+joint+onslaught++/-/1056/1277658/-/d2tmo1z/-/index.htmlDoes this mean they are going to change the mandate of AMISOM to become a fighting force with war planes and everything. That makes very little sense. AMISOM has a very specific mandate. It cannot be changed on the fly. But we will see.
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Post by furaha on Nov 23, 2011 2:25:21 GMT 3
Adongo, As far as I know Kenya is out to have its own troops "re-hatted" and to bring them under an AMISOM with a widened mandate that also includes operations outside Mogadishu. You are right to say that AMISOM's mandate cannot be changed on the fly. It is a tall order that requires approval by the AU and subsequently by the UN. But if Kenya succeeds external support for its operational costs are likely. Of course within and outside the AU there are still quite a lot of people who are scratching their heads and who wonder why Kenya decided to move, what its exit strategy is and what the precise objectives of the operation are. Quite a lot of explaining will be needed at the international level. And of course not everyone in the region is keen to see a Kenyan Ethiopian alliance move forward. Finally, I agree with you on the need to take a difference approach this time around and to make sure that Somali's can decide their own future without external interference. But that important objective should have been part of Kenya's objective from day one: it should have developed an integrated strategy (not only a military one) that incorporated returning power to local "leaders" (always a dangerous word) as quickly as possible and to allow Somali's to reap peace dividends. From what I can glean from the news I take it that even humanitarian assistance was not part of the initial package that Kenya put together before it moved across the borders. And if Kenya relies on local warlords to assist it with its fight against Al Shabaab, then these warlords are likely to gain in stature and want access to political power. But I am fully with you on the need to look for alternative approaches! And now is the time to do it! Furaha
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 7:25:04 GMT 3
Thanks Adongo. The fear of clans carving up the country is justified. Look at this NY Times article by Jeffrey Gettleman of 9 September 2011. It seems the carving up started well before Kenya intervened. And indeed, looking at Somalia's recent history this is what one would expect, alas. Moreover, the lack of an acceptable and credible government at central level is likely to assist the 'carving up' process. Kenyan and Ethiopian support for the weak and corrupt TFG will encourage the clans and their war lords to strike out on their own. www.nytimes.com/2011/09/10/world/africa/10somalia.html?_r=1&ref=jeffreygettlemanFuraha Furaha,A few things are interesting from the NYT story you have posted. It concurs with the ideas we have been concerned about, namely that managing peace has been harder than managing war in Somalia since 1991. It seems every time an opportunity presented itself for peaceful and democratic solutions even worse wars broke out and it has gone on to this day. The NYT article talks about the break down as late as September this year. It could be worse if the present situation is not managed properly. Secondly the evolution of tribes and clans as the centres of political power and armed conflict may look like it has been part of Somali political culture for eternity but in reality as my piece pointed out and partly explained by Wasrah's piece, tribal and clan identity merged with politics in Somalia only after communities faced chaos and threats. People took cover in their tribes and clans as they faced Siad Barre's ruthless wars and given what has followed that shift has taken a life of its own. Now it is a big problem but it still can be solved. Strangely enough Al Shabaab and the Islamic Courts before them are proof positive that faced with a common enemy and infused with a common agenda, Somalis are very capable of coming together across tribes and clans. The Islamic courts united clans and tribes to fight the warlords and succeeded. Al Shabaab too as horrible as their agenda is have no tribe. Uniting against Al Shabaab is something that can bring many Somalis together. I saw pictures of Somali youth pouring into the beaches of Mogadishu for the first time in three years safe in the knowledge that there will be no Al Shabaab bombs dropping on their heads. I am sure those kids come from different tribes and clans but they are all having a great time. That Somali is possible and it is within reach. Most of these young people have been born in the captivity of endless wars. Give them a future and they will change Somalia forever and for the better. They know what it means to live in captivity. Somali Youth Pour Into The Beaches Of Mogadishu For The First Time In Three Years. Finally the one issue that has been raised many times is that peaceful process about Somali often collapse because they are cooked outside and then forced fed to the Somali. I have a suggestion. Once things settle down why can't the key players try a new strategy. Hold Somali peace talks and processes in Somalia. For example in the South let Prof. Gandhi, Madobe etc and their friends and even foes sort their issues in the South and work with the TFG as partners for peace. Let Somali local leaders and delegates make these decisions and choose their interim leaders right inside their country and let them mop up with TFG and form a credible respected national authority that can move the country foward. Last but not least. I am confused about Kenya either having joint operations with AMISOM or other reports of Kenya and Ethiopia joining AMISOM to fight Al Shabaab as this stories suggest: www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000047130&cid=4&ttl=US%20supports%20Kenya,%20Ethiopia%20joining%20Amisom%20forces www.nation.co.ke/News/Kenya+and+Amisom+plan+joint+onslaught++/-/1056/1277658/-/d2tmo1z/-/index.htmlDoes this mean they are going to change the mandate of AMISOM to become a fighting force with war planes and everything. That makes very little sense. AMISOM has a very specific mandate. It cannot be changed on the fly. But we will see. Somali Youth Pour Into The Beaches Of Mogadishu For The First Time In Three Years. Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=recent#ixzz1eV0Jk3xNAdongoIt isn't Somali Youth, it is Somali male youth. Did you notice that? Just a thought.
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Post by roughrider on Nov 23, 2011 17:22:22 GMT 3
This was another good piece. I wonder why more people are not here discuss substance yet when there is thread attacking Raila you will find a lot of back-and-forth. Anyway, that is besides my point. I reject the notion that there is some kind of curse on Africa. It is an afro-pessimistic view. But I understand why one might say that. But look, there is light at the end of the tunnel. Just 30 years ago China was considered a poor country. Nobody could have predicted that they would be staring the US in the face today. Malaysia is often cited. In the 60's we were better than them on some key metrics. We had similar populations and our economies and development was comparable. Today Nairobi cannot hold a candle to Kuala Lumpur. It was not rocket science that made Malaysia to grow at an average of over 6.5% from the late 50's. Now they are a newly industrialised country and are now among the 30 largest economies. If they can do it, so can we. From your first piece – and now this one, a fundamental question emerges: to paraphrase Mary Poppin, How do you solve a problem like Somalia?
How do you build a country like Somalia into a unified, vibrant Nation?You have correctly identified Somalia’s biggest strength: her long suffering people. In all my investigations and interactions I find people who are very patriotic and hard working. By and large. Most ordinary Somalis want peace and progress. In one sense, they are just like the Sudanese who couldn’t wait to go back to Juba and to their new freedom. Even in the throes of war, you find selfless Somali professionals still eager to help develop their country. Take a look at this website for example and see what professionals are doing: www.satg.org/So the people are one piece of the puzzle. Organise them and give them a chance to contribute to their countries development. Allow them to participate in decision making. Secondly, despite what some people think, Somalia is actually a very rich country. I am certain they have oil. They have uranium among other minerals. Their agricultural potential is great. They have a long and beautiful coastline that can inspire a tourist industry like no other. And obviously livestock is their forte. This economy is simply waiting to be unleashed. Thirdly, history and tradition has made Somalia a natural capital for commerce. These guys have a culture that facilitates business. Our very own Eastleigh neighborhood is testimony to the entrepreneurial spirit of the Somali people. So you can imagine what business skills and ideas are likely to emerge out of a stable and peaceful Somalia. Adongo, has offered a suggestion for ‘peace talks’ at home. Let’s first say that we should never waste the opportunity of a disaster. Somalia has a chance to avoid the errors of other African countries. For example, Kenyan towns are often poorly planned and situated; it is a sick joke to place your capital city on prime agricultural land where you could grow food in a country that receive food aid. Somalia can also avoid wasting time with disastrous experiments in education systems that are wasteful, public policy that is inimical to public interest, narrow roads or sewage systems that will be outstripped by needs in a few years. Somalia can also shun industrial developments that are now shown to be unsustainable. Somalia can be built from scratch by taking the best practice from across the globe. Somali’s have a chance to develop a designer country by shunning wat has not worked elsewhere and learning from mistakes.The present interest in Somalia and the incursions by Kenyan and other forces are the opportunity for the GOOD MEN of Somalia to stand up. They will provide foreign armies with their exit strategies and help unleash Somalia potential. That is the function of good leadership. The moment is now. It is time for true leaders from Somalia to rise up and replace the self-centred warlords. This is how you solve a problem like Somalia?
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Post by mongobeti on Nov 23, 2011 20:13:21 GMT 3
Great article by Adongo, illuminating the present Somali situation in an historical context. Good piece.
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 23, 2011 21:23:18 GMT 3
Furaha,A few things are interesting from the NYT story you have posted. It concurs with the ideas we have been concerned about, namely that managing peace has been harder than managing war in Somalia since 1991. It seems every time an opportunity presented itself for peaceful and democratic solutions even worse wars broke out and it has gone on to this day. The NYT article talks about the break down as late as September this year. It could be worse if the present situation is not managed properly. Secondly the evolution of tribes and clans as the centres of political power and armed conflict may look like it has been part of Somali political culture for eternity but in reality as my piece pointed out and partly explained by Wasrah's piece, tribal and clan identity merged with politics in Somalia only after communities faced chaos and threats. People took cover in their tribes and clans as they faced Siad Barre's ruthless wars and given what has followed that shift has taken a life of its own. Now it is a big problem but it still can be solved. Strangely enough Al Shabaab and the Islamic Courts before them are proof positive that faced with a common enemy and infused with a common agenda, Somalis are very capable of coming together across tribes and clans. The Islamic courts united clans and tribes to fight the warlords and succeeded. Al Shabaab too as horrible as their agenda is have no tribe. Uniting against Al Shabaab is something that can bring many Somalis together. I saw pictures of Somali youth pouring into the beaches of Mogadishu for the first time in three years safe in the knowledge that there will be no Al Shabaab bombs dropping on their heads. I am sure those kids come from different tribes and clans but they are all having a great time. That Somali is possible and it is within reach. Most of these young people have been born in the captivity of endless wars. Give them a future and they will change Somalia forever and for the better. They know what it means to live in captivity. Somali Youth Pour Into The Beaches Of Mogadishu For The First Time In Three Years. Finally the one issue that has been raised many times is that peaceful process about Somali often collapse because they are cooked outside and then forced fed to the Somali. I have a suggestion. Once things settle down why can't the key players try a new strategy. Hold Somali peace talks and processes in Somalia. For example in the South let Prof. Gandhi, Madobe etc and their friends and even foes sort their issues in the South and work with the TFG as partners for peace. Let Somali local leaders and delegates make these decisions and choose their interim leaders right inside their country and let them mop up with TFG and form a credible respected national authority that can move the country foward. Last but not least. I am confused about Kenya either having joint operations with AMISOM or other reports of Kenya and Ethiopia joining AMISOM to fight Al Shabaab as this stories suggest: www.standardmedia.co.ke/InsidePage.php?id=2000047130&cid=4&ttl=US%20supports%20Kenya,%20Ethiopia%20joining%20Amisom%20forces www.nation.co.ke/News/Kenya+and+Amisom+plan+joint+onslaught++/-/1056/1277658/-/d2tmo1z/-/index.htmlDoes this mean they are going to change the mandate of AMISOM to become a fighting force with war planes and everything. That makes very little sense. AMISOM has a very specific mandate. It cannot be changed on the fly. But we will see. Somali Youth Pour Into The Beaches Of Mogadishu For The First Time In Three Years. Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=recent#ixzz1eV0Jk3xNAdongoIt isn't Somali Youth, it is Somali male youth. Did you notice that? Just a thought. Kathure,I was perplexed by the same. The girls are nowhere to be seen. But you know what really made me happy. It was to see the kids out there looking happy. You and me are parents, we have kids, some of whom are the same age as these guys. How nice is it to see them out there just having fun.These kids could be Al Shabaab suicide bombers if they had no other choice. That is what we have to focus on. Also this story started with a gray picture of Berlin conspirators plotting to destroy the continent for their own good. The Somali sealine was one of their main targets. We are talking about a 3,500 Km sealine. How nice is it to see Somali kids in a part of that sealine. Marvelous. But you raise a bigger discussion about the invisibility of Somali women and even girls in public life. Are there women in the TFG? If so where are they? Like I promised my next piece on this is about the Somali civil society. Here in Toronto Somali women have taken leadership positions in very many aspects including community organizations. Let's talk to them and others about the future of Somalia and our region. Thanks for raising the issue. RR & Mongobeti,This discussion is just beginning. Thanks.
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Post by Deleted on Nov 23, 2011 21:57:59 GMT 3
Adongo
u said:
Kathure,
I was perplexed by the same. The girls are nowhere to be seen. But you know what really made me happy. It was to se the kids out there looking happy. You and me have kids, some of the same age as these guys. How nice is it to see them out there just having fun.
But you raise a bigger discussion about the invisibility of Somali women and even girls in public life. Are thre women in the TFG? If so where are they?
Like I promised my next piece on this is about the Somali civil society. Here in Toronto Somali women have taken leadership positions in very many aspects including community organizations. Let's talk to them and others about the future of Somalia and our region. Thanks for raising the issue.
RR & Mongobeti,
This discussion is just beginning.
I say:
Why should you be perplexed? It's not like you aren't clued into the monster patriarchy everywhere is it? Made me happy to see beautiful black skins "just having fun" in the majestic ocean doing what young people should be able to do. But that, nor the fact that I have male children stoped me from seeing that only male children could do what ALL children should be able to do. Indeed, all humans and other living creatures enjoy water. Especially a deliciously salty ocean. Can a human with a woman's body have a life?
And yes I do raise a bigger question. Of cause there are women and girls in the TFG. Just not having any fun caught up doing what's best for women and girls. Your guess will have to be as good as mine.
To collapse a preliminary crucial issue into a snippet:
"If you're dissing the sisters you ain't fighting the power!"
For honesty's sake gots to say, that quote ain't mine.
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Post by genius on Nov 24, 2011 18:19:09 GMT 3
Kathure, the explanation for the absence of ladies in that Mogadishu photo is quite benign actually. You see, I come from the region around Lake Victoria. My observation is that on the shores of that Lake, men and women do not mix freely. The beaches where men and boys hang out are very strictly segregated from the beaches where girls and women do their swimming, bathing, washing etc. Unfortunately there are no coeducational beaches there.
Somalia, I would presume is a much more conservative society than Nyanza, hence the beaches would have the gender separation being even more strictly enforced. The photographer just happened to have taken his photo in a men only beach. If it were a lady photographer, the people in the picture would probably be women. Expecting a scene from a 2011 Mogadishu beach to look like the video of 'Twisting by The Pool' is a little ambitious, don't you think?
That said, it appears Somalia has enormous tourism potential. I look forward to holidays in the Somalia Coast far away from the crowds, beach boys, drugs, and all other immoral activities associated with the tourism circuit at the Kenyan coast.
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Post by nereah on Nov 24, 2011 19:22:00 GMT 3
adongo,
three quick ones.
one. allow me to contest that bit on piracy origin. i am hesitant to buy what your friends told you. why do i want to believe that piracy is more of an illicit global business enterprise that has been in lawless mogadishu all this decade as evidence with gun running, mafia like extortion and turf war? could it be possible that the piracy in somalia is as homegrown and foreign backed and not an accidental exploit?
kindly find out from your friends as sister kathure would want us to be enlightened, the difference between somali, somalia as in reference to the nationality, language,culture, person and name of a country.
lastly, what do you make of this thing about kenyan troops donating bibles, qurans and maize in areas that have been liberated?
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 24, 2011 19:36:13 GMT 3
nereah,
I am glad you bothered to go through the whole story. It is a long piece. Yes piracy is an illicit global business. In Somalia it started with a simple captured ship by fishermen then it became a multi-billion criminal operation run by all sorts of criminal elements with serious consequences for Kenya. Today sea piracy is practically dead due to the war ships policing the area. That is why the criminals resorted to kidnapping.
From what I know, Somali refers to the people of Somalia which is the country. Incidentally one of my good friends, Prof. Yusuf who comes from Somaliland has been asking me how to become a Jukwaa contributing member. I told him we are closed due to piracy from high seas. Pun intended. I am going to ask OO to give him a special pass.
About donating bibles, that is funny. I think they should donate food instead. What do you think?
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Post by job on Nov 24, 2011 21:11:51 GMT 3
Adongo
Lot's of catching up to do. This is a brilliant analysis of the Somalia situation. I'll chip in later.
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Post by roughrider on Nov 25, 2011 16:49:58 GMT 3
Kathure, the explanation for the absence of ladies in that Mogadishu photo is quite benign actually. You see, I come from the region around Lake Victoria. My observation is that on the shores of that Lake, men and women do not mix freely. The beaches where men and boys hang out are very strictly segregated from the beaches where girls and women do their swimming, bathing, washing etc. Unfortunately there are no coeducational beaches there. Somalia, I would presume is a much more conservative society than Nyanza, hence the beaches would have the gender separation being even more strictly enforced. The photographer just happened to have taken his photo in a men only beach. If it were a lady photographer, the people in the picture would probably be women. Expecting a scene from a 2011 Mogadishu beach to look like the video of 'Twisting by The Pool' is a little ambitious, don't you think? Genius; I tried to investigate this problem by talking to a Muslim scholar. He told me that the Quran teaches conservatism among Muslims and especially women whose bodies must not be exposed. He said that there are no buts or ifs. It is haram for Muslim woman to expose her body except to specific people: Husband, father, brother.... He walked me through Shariah law and even forced me to write quotes from the Quran and Hadith. I think he plans to convert me . Anyway, it is clear that women cannot expose any body part except face and hands. For men it is from the navel (around the belly button) down to the knees. See through clothing and 'tights' are also not allowed. Medical situations are exempted. The theology is dense but it basically derives from the initial problem in the garden of Eden where man and woman (Adam and Eve) discovered shame after Satan lied to them. This has also been a big debate in many countries, for example, over the hijab in public schools. So it is not really an issue of 'patriarchy' as some people are wont to see it. It is more an issue of religion. Unless our resident feminists want to declare that the religion is patriarchal. So you are more likely to see this if you hope to see Somali women on the beach: The scholar also told me that the issue of women Muslim and their beachwear has spawned the design of specific beach attire suitable for women but there is a lot of debate around that. It is called "burqini'. He said that the swimwear is still very revealing and many religious leaders still do not accept it! Muslim ladies running on the beach... Some Islamic teachers still find this too revealing A family having fun in the pool... check out the lady in black So I was quite perplexed at this point and asked him: So what can Muslim women do to enjoy swimming?1. They should only swim in women only pools and even then conservatively. Beach areas that are shielded should be set aside. Or specific days for women to swim. 2. Children should be taught how to swim at an early age but even then must be dressed conservatively in order to avoid them getting used to exposure or nudity. 3. Women should swim in the company of their husbands and close relatives in private pools.
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Post by roughrider on Nov 25, 2011 17:02:24 GMT 3
Adongo - the last three paragraphs of this NYT article still raise the question that I want answered. What is the exit strategy in Somalia. You talked of a peace process in your essay but it wasn't exhaustive. peace process involving the corrupt parliament and the warlords? I ask again, with some desperation: who and where are the good men of Somalia to offer leadership?But there is an uncomfortable bigger question. What will these African Union sacrifices amount to? All peacekeeping experts say the same thing: that peacekeepers are a Band-Aid on a gaping wound, a way to buy time until a political process takes hold and alleviates the causes of the conflict.
In Somalia, the political process seems as bleak as ever. The Transitional Federal Government, Somalia’s internationally recognized authority that the African Union protects, is a collection of corrupt politicians and warlords who control almost no territory and are exceedingly unpopular.
The government has yet to fix schools, open hospitals or deliver services in just about all the neighborhoods the African Union has wrested away from the Shabab in battles that often cost dozens of lives for a few crumbling city blocks.
www.nytimes.com/2011/11/25/world/africa/africa-forces-surprise-many-with-success-in-subduing-somalia.html?_r=1&pagewanted=2
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Post by adongo23456 on Nov 25, 2011 17:25:04 GMT 3
AdongoLot's of catching up to do. This is a brilliant analysis of the Somalia situation. I'll chip in later. What is up doc? Good to see you around. Yeah these guys threw the country into a war which still looks pretty open ended. All of a sudden we had this maze of confusion and the media wasn't helping much. I decided to look at a few angles and let our Jukwaa think tank handle the issues at stake. So far it has been a marvelous discussion. I am going to post Part I of the discussion at the beginning of this thread to allow those joining the discussion to have a full picture. RR,I will respond to your concerns. I can see you are trying to bring uchochezi with beach pictures and theological speculations loaded with gender politics. We can have that discussion another time. As for the pictures, I thought the water is enough cover when swimming. Obviously I was very wrong. I am not the type to meddle with religious sensitivities but that last picture is frightening. May be someone can invest in some swiming gear for that market. But the family is having a great time, that is good enough for me.
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Post by nereah on Nov 25, 2011 17:58:04 GMT 3
adongo and all,
i may not have been attentive but kindly remind me of the variant of islam that is in somalia. are they shia or sunii ? does it matter in the first place if this affinity informs the ideology,outlook and dispositions of the saudis and iranians regimes?
i ask so because i have been of the view that the long term solution to the somalia problem is rooted in its religious identity to the extent that it can be used as unifying force to railroad the disparate groupings into a progressive national force. again all this depends on the variant of islam and its application to the national life.
the flip side of this is opening up the somalia society to a secular, capitalist state maybe in the mould of new iraq or what libya is likely to turn out.this would mean not just the bibles that kenyans and allied troops are distributing alongside qurans and relief maize but also iconic capitalist enterprises like coke and macdonald.
i would therefore be interested to see how you handle the place of civil society in this discourse for a new somalia. i know that the place of the social media like facebook, youtube and twitter which opens up the society into the new frontiers is an interesting component for the anticipated new somalia. but again, wont the deeply entrenched religious identity stand on the way?
my pesa nane.
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Post by genius on Nov 25, 2011 18:16:57 GMT 3
One way or another, there will have to be a role for the Islamists in a post-conflict Somalia. Expecting to have a secular state in a nation comprising 99.9999999% Muslim people is rather wild. Democracy must be allowed to prevail. If the people want to live under Sharia, they must be allowed to do so without interference.
If the stories about Kenyan soldiers dishing out Bibles is true (I highly doubt this story), then it is very irresponsible of them. Did the Somalis ask for Bibles? Is the Kenyan army now an evangelising force? Which Christian denomination are they evangelising for? The DoD needs to investigate this allegation.
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