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Post by mzee on Feb 6, 2012 13:49:05 GMT 3
Let’s face it. Before the ODM grassroots elections last year, the media was awash with a total fallout and destruction of the party. It was said that the party would be reduced to nothing given that the defeated will quit and that the Ruto gang would take with it a large chunk of supporters. It never happened. Now they are at it again.
I think that asking Mudavadi to step down in favor of Raila is not a bad thing, after all Raila is the party leader. What I know is that this process will in the end strengthen the party if done well. The infiltration of ODM delegates by outside forces in the event that nominations are carried out at county level is a reality which cannot be ignored. Ours is still a country where some are in the race not to win the presidency but to stop certain individuals from becoming president. It’s pathetic to say the least.
In a sign of desperation PANU/KKK/G7 gang is now trying to advice Mudavadi on what to do. He is being told that he is the best candidate, yet the other day he was being chided by the same gang for being weak and meek. How did he metamorphosis overnight?
As long as Raila himself has not stood up to say that Mudavadi is doing the “wrong” thing and should be stopped, I think it would only be fair to let the contest go on. I know that there are many who are also saying that it’s Mudavadis time, yet we don’t hear makelele about that. If Jakoyo says something, then he must be speaking for the PM. I thought that the PMs Spokesperson was Dennis Onyango.
The problem with most Kenyans is that they are unused to this kind of contest within the same party that people immediately start reading all manner of mischief. This is what is happening here. Our usually ignorant media sponsored by ODM enemies cannot properly analyse the situation, theirs is to create intrigue and possible friction within ODM so to allow the other side to have an easy ride.
Those of you here is jukwaa who are dreaming of fallout in ODM or have wild ideas of one or the other person quitting the party yet the contest is just beginning are due to be disappointed badly.
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Post by kamalet on Feb 6, 2012 14:22:37 GMT 3
Let’s face it. Before the ODM grassroots elections last year, the media was awash with a total fallout and destruction of the party. It was said that the party would be reduced to nothing given that the defeated will quit and that the Ruto gang would take with it a large chunk of supporters. It never happened. Now they are at it again. I think that asking Mudavadi to step down in favor of Raila is not a bad thing, after all Raila is the party leader. What I know is that this process will in the end strengthen the party if done well. The infiltration of ODM delegates by outside forces in the event that nominations are carried out at county level is a reality which cannot be ignored. Ours is still a country where some are in the race not to win the presidency but to stop certain individuals from becoming president. It’s pathetic to say the least. In a sign of desperation PANU/KKK/G7 gang is now trying to advice Mudavadi on what to do. He is being told that he is the best candidate, yet the other day he was being chided by the same gang for being weak and meek. How did he metamorphosis overnight? As long as Raila himself has not stood up to say that Mudavadi is doing the “wrong” thing and should be stopped, I think it would only be fair to let the contest go on. I know that there are many who are also saying that it’s Mudavadis time, yet we don’t hear makelele about that. If Jakoyo says something, then he must be speaking for the PM. I thought that the PMs Spokesperson was Dennis Onyango. The problem with most Kenyans is that they are unused to this kind of contest within the same party that people immediately start reading all manner of mischief. This is what is happening here. Our usually ignorant media sponsored by ODM enemies cannot properly analyse the situation, theirs is to create intrigue and possible friction within ODM so to allow the other side to have an easy ride. Those of you here is jukwaa who are dreaming of fallout in ODM or have wild ideas of one or the other person quitting the party yet the contest is just beginning are due to be disappointed badly. Mzee It has nothing to do with G7 or even with Ruto who no longer considers himself an ODM member. It has nothin even to do with enemies of ODM. It is a problem tha ODM needs to address head on. For instance, do you have a problem with the county primary proposal by Mudavadi?
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Post by mzee on Feb 6, 2012 15:28:16 GMT 3
Kamale, Welcome back to jukwaa. Where have you been? ODM as a party seem not to have a problem with county nominations. But there is concern that the process might be manipulated by party enemies to cause havoc. I think that even if the party took the county nomination route Raila would still defeat Mudavadi. There are, however, party members who currently support Mudavadi while on the other hand there are those who are for Raila, which is ok and there should be no concern about that. The big deal here is for the party to agree on the best nomination process. As soon as this happens the party will talk in one voice and all the noise will die down. Hillary Clinton and Obama fought it out in the last primaries mpaka dakika ya mwisho but that has not hindered them working together. I wonder why you are saying that this has nothing with G7 to do. Have you not heard them airing their views on the same?
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Post by nok on Feb 6, 2012 17:02:29 GMT 3
jukwaaWhat is greater ODM or Raila ? If ODM is greater, it should then actually embrace primaries, civil democratic challenges within it's ranks and healthy competition. It is the behavior of entitlement of those at the top that often lead to a revolt. Give Muds a fair chance in ODM and he will strengthen the party, the rest is otherwise disastrous for ODM. So Midiwo, Ntimama et al. You are all wrong on the script that you laid open. It goes against the core principles of ODM in itself.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 6, 2012 18:21:10 GMT 3
Kamale,Welcome back to jukwaa. Where have you been? ODM as a party seem not to have a problem with county nominations. But there is concern that the process might be manipulated by party enemies to cause havoc. I think that even if the party took the county nomination route Raila would still defeat Mudavadi. There are, however, party members who currently support Mudavadi while on the other hand there are those who are for Raila, which is ok and there should be no concern about that. The big deal here is for the party to agree on the best nomination process. As soon as this happens the party will talk in one voice and all the noise will die down. Hillary Clinton and Obama fought it out in the last primaries mpaka dakika ya mwisho but that has not hindered them working together. I wonder why you are saying that this has nothing with G7 to do. Have you not heard them airing their views on the same? Mzee, You contracdict yourself my friend. In one sentense you say that ODM has held nationwide elections without trouble and interference from their competitors, but in another you fear county nominations may be infiltrated by G-7 and other elements. Which is which? I will side with Mangai here. ODM need not give Mudavadi a reason to bolt out. Modes of nomination have been a problem to parties in Kenya since the second multiparty unveiling. My understanding is that, the party organs namely the NEC and PG had ratified the county nomination proposal. Why then is it becoming a problem? Interesting to note, is how the Luo MPs and the old guard of the party are now cajoling Mudavadi to stop his campaign and endorse the party leader. It looks like Mudavadi got all the high priests of the party unawares and flat footed, and as Kamale opines, it is only fools who will not take this seriously.
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Post by job on Feb 6, 2012 19:17:42 GMT 3
Isn't it interesting that PNU, and G7 impressarios have paused momentarily, wetting their appetites for an anticipated Raila-Mudavadi apocalypse. Keep waiting my friends...Watu wote sio wajinga!
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Post by mzee on Feb 6, 2012 19:19:37 GMT 3
Mwalimu, All your arguments fall flat when you wade into tribal intense comments. I think that you are better off attending the Hague suspect rallies where all manner of hate speech goes.
Anyways, we have reliable information about the infiltration I named above. Besides, I don't know where you got the idea that ODM has conducted similar nominations before. I think that you better stick to PANU politics.
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Post by adongo23456 on Feb 6, 2012 19:39:32 GMT 3
Folks,
Mudavadi campaigning for the party ticket is one of the best things that has happened to ODM. It brings competition, it draws other interested parties (forget the desperate conmen from the Gang of 7), but more than anything else it helps Mudavadi to assert his position in the party. Let's not forget that even a Deputy Presidental ticket is not guaranteed to anyone. Mudavadi needs to show that he has a good support base in the party. He is doing just that and should get a good following in ODM.
It is predictable that the G7 orphans are hoping they could get a fifth column in ODM. That will not happen. The G7 mob has one big problem. They have ten or more presidential pretenders who try to work together during the day and work seperately during the night.
Ruto will go with his URP even to The Hague. Uhuru is all over the map but he knows the only way to stay relevant is to pretend he can run State House from The Hague. Wiper will wipe anything to stand on any ticket. I hear Kalonzo said he will nto feel like running without Uhuru and Ruto running. Nobody told him they are supposed to run for one party first with him!
Then they have a million spanner boys all being promised one thing or the other. Very soon all of them will realize eventheir own parliamentary seats are not guaranteed.
Then we have ODM old timers so used to the baba na mama politics they cannot comprehend the value of competition to ODM. They are really not important but the media and the usual suspects are hovering around that to get some volume going.
Other desperados have jumped on the county -v- NDC in Nairobi as some kind of a wedge issue between Mudavadi and the PM. They are trying to revive the Kalonzo Musyoka general election format for choosing ODM candidate (something Kalonzo himself did not do with his ODM K).
It is nonsense which will not get anywhere. The ODM elections will be done by delegates who have already been elected and registered with the relevat authorities. They can hold elections wherever they want and it makes no difference. What we see are attempts to balkanize the delegates and may be pour money in respective areas to destabalize ODM. Some are desperate to project that as the big divide between the two amigos.
Then of course the tribal minded folks who keep talking about Luo M.Ps. wanting Raila elected unopposed. Since when was Ole Ntimama and his fellow M.Ps from Narok and Kajiado become Luo M.Ps.
I think ODM should keep their focus on moving the party foward, having vigorous presidential nomination process and bringing the party together on solid issues while the others jump from place to place talking about themselves as the new victims of PEV. Kenyans cannot eat that nonsense.
Those people do not even have a party tp call their own. They are running on borrowed time and ODM needs to stay away from that toxic politics. It has the lifespan of a catarpillar.
The ICC verdict brought back together desperate forces who already were going there different ways. After their prayers (more like devil worship) they are back trying to pound water in a mortar. With enemies like that ODM need to get busy putting their party together and then hit the road running as soon as they get their presidential candidate in place and the party platform ready.
I liked Mudavadi's talk with the Mombasa folks. He raised the issues of devolution and how important they are to the country and to his party. It is the real issues that will seperate the pretenders from the serious folks. Kenyans cannot be fed with ICC hyperbole and people trying to pretend that being charged with mass murder is somehow a gift from god for someone to be a leader.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 6, 2012 20:03:08 GMT 3
Mwalimu, All your arguments fall flat when you wade into tribal intense comments. I think that you are better off attending the Hague suspect rallies where all manner of hate speech goes. Anyways, we have reliable information about the infiltration I named above. Besides, I don't know where you got the idea that ODM has conducted similar nominations before. I think that you better stick to PANU politics. Mzee,You misunderstood me. I never said that ODM has conducted similar nominations before, but that it is my understanding that the party PG and NEC had ratified the county nomination system. As a party hawk, you are in a better position to disabuse our minds on this. In the meantime, here is Mudavadi telling off those calling him to go slow on his bid for the sake of the party leader: www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2012/02/i%E2%80%99m-my-own-man-asserts-mudavadi/Adongo,I agree that Mudavadi's candidature is good for the party. However, knowingly or unknowingly, he has raised the stakes and depending on how the party handles this, it will either be a boon for them or its knew and unforeseen achilles heel, both for Mudavadi himself and for the party as a whole.
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Post by furaha on Feb 6, 2012 20:17:12 GMT 3
Folks,Mudavadi campaigning for the party ticket is one of the best things that has happened to ODM. It brings competition, it draws other interested parties (forget the desperate conmen from the Gang of 7), but more than anything else it helps Mudavadi to assert his position in the party. Adongo, I completely agree. While other parties are struggling to meet the requirements of the political parties bill and are all over the place, let ODM show how parties should be run. They will not be perfect at it but at least they are making an attempt. And I am sure they will be criticized for that imperfection by others who are not even trying.... Very predictable. And let's not forget that Mudavadi has been very instrumental in the whole devolution issue. He and his team at the ministry worked quietly and seriously, unlike others who tried to create political mileage out of every minor step they took. Judge the guy on the basis of merit and not on where he hails from. furaha
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Post by mzee on Feb 6, 2012 20:24:12 GMT 3
furah I agree with you
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Post by jakaswanga on Feb 6, 2012 20:56:16 GMT 3
Adongo,I agree that Mudavadi's candidature is good for the party. However, knowingly or unknowingly, he has raised the stakes and depending on how the party handles this, it will either be a boon for them or its knew and unforeseen achilles heel, both for Mudavadi himself and for the party as a whole. Principal, if you missed it... Here is Jukwaa's okolowaka's definative closure of the deal a few days ago:Although Mudavadi's democratic right to challenge for the top seat in ODM may seem like spoiling for a fight with Raila, I believe that this is a strategy that ODM has adopted for long-term goals... IMO, ODM knows too well that at the moment it is only Raila who has the countrywide visibility and grass-roots support to challenge anyone out there for the presidency. So what is the game plan...? Kenya has turned a leaf politically, at least some people have (ODM)... So with this knowledge that Raila will have just two terms of five years each, it is in the interest of ODM for the number two in command to go through an apprentice program early. By having Mudavadi mount his country wide campaign akin to the caucusing in the US political system, Mudavadi is being groomed for the top seat when the time for Raila to step aside after serving his two terms in office comes. It is also an opportunity for ODM to teach Kenyans on the future of conducting party affairs in Kenya; going through primaries to nominate national office bearers instead of the confusion we see elsewhere (UDM, PNU, KANU, drama, etc). This countrywide caucusing is not just a selling point for ODM as a democratic party, it gives us a sneak peak into the future (ten years). Mudavadi is no longer a youth in the ODM household, he has become his own man, he is learning the ropes fast, he is mastering the tricks of the trade, he has had the best on-the-job kind of training, and he learning to walk and talk with the big boys from his solo trips to the barber shop; this is good news to me and other card carrying ODM members, the future remains bright... « Last Edit: Jan 29, 2012, 2:25am by okolowaka » Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=6485&page=1#ixzz1lcppOXRo
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Post by phil on Feb 6, 2012 20:56:47 GMT 3
I find it rather absurd that the press in Kenya focuses on imaginary rivalry in ODM when the party is trying to do exactly what its constitution and democracy demands it to do. It is as if it is a blunder for a party to conduct primaries.
I would have imagined the media would now be challenging those parties that have not held grassroot elections and have no intention of opening its presidential ticket to competition, but to the contrary the media wants to drive an imaginary wedge between ODM party leader and its deputy!
The same press conveniently avoids reporting on those who have continuously violated the Political Parties Act and those who openly subvert the constitution.
The Kenyan media is not just glorifying those who promote negative ethnicity, they are perhaps the biggest stumbling block to democratic progress in this country.
And to those like Bonny Khalwale who imagine Mudavadi will be defecting from ODM anytime soon, keep dreaming.
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Post by nok on Feb 7, 2012 12:45:01 GMT 3
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euonyi
Full Member
Me, myself and I
Posts: 179
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Post by euonyi on Feb 7, 2012 14:04:50 GMT 3
I find it rather absurd that the press in Kenya focuses on imaginary rivalry in ODM when the party is trying to do exactly what its constitution and democracy demands it to do. It is as if it is a blunder for a party to conduct primaries. I would have imagined the media would now be challenging those parties that have not held grassroot elections and have no intention of opening its presidential ticket to competition, but to the contrary the media wants to drive an imaginary wedge between ODM party leader and its deputy! The same press conveniently avoids reporting on those who have continuously violated the Political Parties Act and those who openly subvert the constitution. The Kenyan media is not just glorifying those who promote negative ethnicity, they are perhaps the biggest stumbling block to democratic progress in this country. And to those like Bonny Khalwale who imagine Mudavadi will be defecting from ODM anytime soon, keep dreaming. Spot On!!
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Post by b6k on Feb 7, 2012 14:29:54 GMT 3
I find it rather absurd that the press in Kenya focuses on imaginary rivalry in ODM when the party is trying to do exactly what its constitution and democracy demands it to do. It is as if it is a blunder for a party to conduct primaries. Phil, if the media is focusing on the rivalry, isn't it possible that it's because for the first time we hope to see some genuine democratic rivalry & not a pre-packaged fait accomplis backroom deal as we saw in '07? The ground has shifted & things may go pear-shaped for Raila if Mudavadi can grow a pair & take the fight to Agwambo. For once you're right. It's democracy in action. For those in KE & its environs (I think they broadcast in Zambia) don't miss Mudavadi's live interview on Citizen's 9pm news tonight (source: Citizen's Twitter).
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Post by jules on Feb 7, 2012 16:05:45 GMT 3
I'm fine with Mudavadi vying for ODM presidential nominations.My concern is that those who are urging him on are the PM's perpepetual critics including the Rutos,Jirongos,Keters ,Dualles,Khalwales,Bifwolis,that cast.That is why any well meaning ODM supporter should be wary of the push for nominations to be done at county level.That will be a monumental blunder that ODM will leave to regret.These people have very deep pockets and will ensure that there goal of ensuring Raila doesn't make it is realised.
I hope Mudavadi will not repeat the 2002 mistake for he has come from far with Raila in ODM.We are watching.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 7, 2012 17:29:38 GMT 3
I hope Mudavadi will not repeat the 2002 mistake for he has come from far with Raila in ODM.We are watching. What exactly do you mean? If I remember well, the mistake Mudavadi made in 2002 was to raise the hopes of his supporters that he was going for the big thing then walked back to KANU. By saying that, he should not repeat the same mistake are you saying that he should never look back on his quest for presidency? If so, how does that sit with your warning 'he has come from far with Raila and ODM. We are watching'?. Please clarrify. My hunch here is that Mudavadi has been pissed off by Odinga supporters who had started taking him for granted. My sources indeed reveal that Mudavadi factor was in fact one of the reasons that Miguna was shown the door albeit a little late. Remember that little talk of Nairobi governor? Where is Phil when you really need him?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 7, 2012 17:37:01 GMT 3
Adongo,I agree that Mudavadi's candidature is good for the party. However, knowingly or unknowingly, he has raised the stakes and depending on how the party handles this, it will either be a boon for them or its knew and unforeseen achilles heel, both for Mudavadi himself and for the party as a whole. Principal, if you missed it... Here is Jukwaa's okolowaka's definative closure of the deal a few days ago:Although Mudavadi's democratic right to challenge for the top seat in ODM may seem like spoiling for a fight with Raila, I believe that this is a strategy that ODM has adopted for long-term goals... IMO, ODM knows too well that at the moment it is only Raila who has the countrywide visibility and grass-roots support to challenge anyone out there for the presidency. So what is the game plan...? Kenya has turned a leaf politically, at least some people have (ODM)... So with this knowledge that Raila will have just two terms of five years each, it is in the interest of ODM for the number two in command to go through an apprentice program early. By having Mudavadi mount his country wide campaign akin to the caucusing in the US political system, Mudavadi is being groomed for the top seat when the time for Raila to step aside after serving his two terms in office comes. It is also an opportunity for ODM to teach Kenyans on the future of conducting party affairs in Kenya; going through primaries to nominate national office bearers instead of the confusion we see elsewhere (UDM, PNU, KANU, drama, etc). This countrywide caucusing is not just a selling point for ODM as a democratic party, it gives us a sneak peak into the future (ten years). Mudavadi is no longer a youth in the ODM household, he has become his own man, he is learning the ropes fast, he is mastering the tricks of the trade, he has had the best on-the-job kind of training, and he learning to walk and talk with the big boys from his solo trips to the barber shop; this is good news to me and other card carrying ODM members, the future remains bright... « Last Edit: Jan 29, 2012, 2:25am by okolowaka » Read more: jukwaa.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=6485&page=1#ixzz1lcppOXRo Jackaswanga,I saw the attempted Mutua-like take on the issue by one Okolowaka (whatever that stands for). Remember the very politically loaded statement by mama Ida Odinga recently. Mudavadi issue should help us put that statement into perspective. That all is not well in the latter day baba na mama party is no secret. You only need to listen to the KANU spend force that is the ODM engine of Ole Ntimama to know this. Then cap it up with Jakoyo's warning that if not Raila, there will be no ODM candidate (reminds of no Raila no peace). Like my friend Jules above, we are watching.
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Post by jules on Feb 7, 2012 17:48:20 GMT 3
The mistake he did was failing to read the mood of the electorate which he is unfortunately doing again.
He should wake up to the reality that the Jirongo's really don't mean him well.Their aim is to have ODM disintegrate.
Will Musalia play into their hands again? Time will tell.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 7, 2012 18:25:54 GMT 3
The mistake he did was failing to read the mood of the electorate which he is unfortunately doing again. He should wake up to the reality that the Jirongo's really don't mean him well.Their aim is to have ODM disintegrate. Will Musalia play into their hands again? Time will tell. Not sure what barometer you are using to gauge the mood, if it is Ole Ntimama, Jakoyo and Uburu then you are right. But if it is the reception he has received everywhere he has been so far, then he seems to be strumming the right notes. What Jirongo and Khalwale represent is the change in perspective in western. It should be rather obvious that western is now viewing Mudavadi differently from the way they did say a week or two ago. But as you say, time will tell, he has let them down before and can easily do so again.
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Post by jules on Feb 7, 2012 18:44:59 GMT 3
What kind of change does Jirongo represent? A YK 92 graduate ?
I remember they offered Musalia the VP-ship in 2002 with disastrous consequences.
The electorate can see through all these schemes and will give their verdict accordingly.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 7, 2012 18:55:48 GMT 3
What kind of change does Jirongo represent? A YK 92 graduate ? I know how hurting it must be for a Raila supporter to see such a trusted soldier to seem to be bolting out. But if you put that aside and reread my post, you will realize that we are talking about 'change' in two different respects as it relates to Jirongo.
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Post by mzee on Feb 7, 2012 19:08:43 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu We in ODM will support either candidate. We just don't want outside interference. And when is your party going to conduct any form of grassroots elections? And which party is your party? Udm, urf, kanu, wiper, zipapa, PANU?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 7, 2012 19:54:43 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu We in ODM will support either candidate. We just don't want outside interference. And when is your party going to conduct any form of grassroots elections? And which party is your party? Udm, urf, kanu, wiper, zipapa, PANU? Mzee, I just listened to the man on KTN taarifa, he sounds as sober as anyone can be, very soft spoken but not wavering. He sounds very determined and knows what he is doing. He dismissed with contempt the narrative that he is a project of someone else. Interesting times still lie ahead, it looks like it is going to be a real palace coup, I tell you.
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