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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 9, 2012 20:36:00 GMT 3
Is the Pm fueling discussions about the Dpm ? Nok, What ODM is engaged in right now is fire fighting. You saw the other day some MPs from Luo Nyanza and western led by Namwamba and Mbadi purport to be speaking on the unity of the party. If you scrutinize this group well you realize that they are all Raila supporters who are rattled by Mudavadi's increasingly growing popularity. Those who know Muda very well, will tell you that he has nothing to do with Namwamba and the press conference did not have his blessings at all. As Jeff would say, sit back, this is just a prelude to the real opera.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 9, 2012 21:36:42 GMT 3
b6k, No need to get all worked up. IMO those interested in this topic fall into three categories: - those who support ODM and FULLY welcome Mudavadi's move - it isn't a big deal, the delegates will make their choicelike they did in 2007. - those who support ODM but would rather Raila got the nomination without a rigorous nomination process - some in this group would fall in the first category, if not for the fear of a possible 'infiltration of the party by outside forces.' -tose who care less about the party and would support anything or anybody who who takes the fight to the doorstep of the "polarizing, abrasive, grubby street urchin overfed on mollases" (your words, not mine). where do you fall and what is your motivation? Akinyi, I can't believe I missed this gem above. I'm sure there are a lot more cleavages than the 3 you present above but let me try to work within your parameters. My motivation is for all to push for a better Kenya. I am not convinced Raila is the answer unlike most on Jukwaa. Your paraphrase of what I said earlier RE: Raila should be an indicator of that. Indeed my approval of Mudavadi over Raila is simply based upon the premise that Mudavadi would be the lesser of 2 evils fronted by ODM, not that he is any better (Goldenberg, cemetery scandal). More on that later. As to why I doubt Raila is the best choice for the 4th president of the republic, let me count the ways. (1) His self admitted role in the '82 coup in the "Enigma" book after the statute of limitations had passed. This was KE's first major bloodletting brought about by politics. (2) His self enriching scheme via the molasses plant that led to a taste for "eating": Triton & the maize scandal were just upping the ante for his newly acquired skills as a wheeler-dealer. (3) His role in polarizing the nation in '07 (41 vs. 1) leading to PEV, making him a repeat offender as far as mass bloodletting goes. Third time may lead to an all out conflagration. (4) The old man is unwell & has had brain surgery. You can hear its effects in his mumbled speech, you can see it in his teary eyes. Are we ready to have a PORK who can end up in ICU whilst in office so his cronies like the buffoon, Midiwo, can run the country in his absence? I think our experience with Kibaki's illness in early '03 that allowed his kitchen cabinet to run the show should make us weary of electing a semi-infirm individual into the highest office in the land. You make a big fuss about ODM conducting primaries. I saw Ababu Namwamba say last night on the news ODM is the only party to have the "balls, guts, & spine" to conduct them. Truth be told, Safina is way ahead of them as they are culling members with questionable integrity (some have had the gall to take the party to court) in order to clean house & get tainted individuals out of the party. Can you picture ODM doing that to their questionable characters? Ole Ntimama, Henry Kosgey (chairman!), Otieno "bado mapambano" Kajwang come to mind as individuals who should've been sent to pasture eons ago. I could go on & on... Having watched the chairman of Safina, Mwalimu Mati, on Citizen's breakfast show today, I know there are other alternatives out there. It's just a pity Kenyans are so mesmerized with the 2 sides of the same rusty coin (Kenyatta-Odinga dynasties) we've had since independence, with each side claiming their side of the coin is shiny & clean, yet they're really equally base & corrupt. What's my motivation? My motivation is to breakout from that cycle of supporting one or the other when both have passed their use by date. Reboot the system! Exactly. rebooting the system means giving everyone a chance and this includes the YOUNG HEALTHY YOU,mwalimu mati, muda, the SICK OLD man and all the rest. What gives you the right and on what basis do you dismiss others as having passed their use by date? quit your hatred and let the voters decide sawa?
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 9, 2012 21:58:28 GMT 3
For those of us who might not know where we have come from, some history will do for you. the-star.co.ke/opinions/wycliffe-muga/61802-odm-should-learn-from-fords-mistakesThe nomination headache has followed the Odinga's like an Albatross. It must be a curse from the fore fathers. Otherwise how do you explain one working so hard to build a party, carry it on his own shoulders then blow it up and start all over again?
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Post by mzee on Feb 9, 2012 23:30:19 GMT 3
Mwalimumkuu, Tell us more about what your plans are in selecting a flag bearer. Worry not about the above story, we have learnt a thing or two from the past and we won't do a repeat. Keep dreaming man. In color if possible
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Post by b6k on Feb 10, 2012 0:06:32 GMT 3
Exactly. rebooting the system means giving everyone a chance and this includes the YOUNG HEALTHY YOU,mwalimu mati, muda, the SICK OLD man and all the rest. What gives you the right and on what basis do you dismiss others as having passed their use by date? quit your hatred and let the voters decide sawa? Akinyi, you asked a question & I answered it. Now you appear to be flustered by my candid response. No, rebooting shouldn't include the tried & tested. Raila is definitely out on that count as well as the other reasons I stated above. Mudavadi barely squeaks in as he was VP for only 3 months. His DPM post is neither here nor there as we all know the GCG was an interim one (I'm surprised it made it this far but I guess even adversaries know enough to grudgingly eat together rather than starve). Mwalimu Mati indicated he's not running for office & I do not intend to become a politician. Why would you say I hate Raila? Just because I don't subscribe to the myth of him being a great reformer & the only hope for KE doesn't mean I hate him. The guy has a good PR crew & has done ok re-inventing himself but I still don't buy it. We even share birthdays, although he's many moons older than I am. He's just not the guy I would entrust the fate of the nation to. But you & your pals are welcome to make it happen...if you can. What gives me the right to decide? I have decided nothing. I have only given you my opinion. As I said earlier on this thread, let the ODMers decide. Based on their decision I (& other Kenyans) will see if the candidate is one I/we can support or not. It's as simple as that really.
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 10, 2012 4:22:21 GMT 3
b6k, yes you said it again - let ODMers decide whether to go with the tried and tested devils or the angels that they don't know. by your own admission you aren't a member of ODM so what's this about not including the tried and tested in their nominations? who decides whether or not one fits that description.
your opinion may matter after they present their candidate. for now your unsolicited advice is best given to G7 or whatever party/person you support.
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Post by b6k on Feb 10, 2012 7:15:08 GMT 3
b6k, yes you said it again - let ODMers decide whether to go with the tried and tested devils or the angels that they don't know. by your own admission you aren't a member of ODM so what's this about not including the tried and tested in their nominations? who decides whether or not one fits that description. your opinion may matter after they present their candidate. for now your unsolicited advice is best given to G7 or whatever party/person you support. Akinyi, you were doing just fine until you got to the G7 part. You are still caught up in the binary system. If one doesn't support ODM then surely they support PNU. That's old hat & has gotten KE nowhere since independence because those two are only fighting dynastic wars that have been fought since the mid 1960's. I know it's difficult for those with herd mentality to understand but I gave up that fight in '07 when I didn't back Kibaki or Raila. For those who want true change, we are not concerned with a candidate winning the big seat. We will work in the sidelines creating the change we desire. Thinking that the game is simply about backing a winner or repackaging a perennial loser is myopic, but hey, to each his/her own (TEHO's).
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Post by moesha on Feb 11, 2012 6:14:13 GMT 3
ODM party will unveil the new manifesto in preparations for the general election, Prime Minister Raila Odinga has said. Raila said ODM is the only party which has conducted its grassroots elections. The PM was addressing elders from Trans Nzoia in Kitale yesterday before opening the party’s offices in Kitale. “ODM is the strongest party in the country, and as a party which is democratic we will unveil the manifesto soon to enable us take the next government," he said. Raila said if Deputy Prime Minister Musalia Mudavadi wins in the ODM nominations, he is ready to support him. Mudavadi is the deputy party leader. “Mudavadi supported me when I won ODM nominations when I became victorious in 2007. If he wins I am ready to support him and vise versa," Raila said. He said ODM party is strong and there was any difference between him and Deputy party leader Musalia Mudavadi. “Those spreading roomers that Raila and Mudavadi’s relationship will break should concentrate with the affairs of their own parties. I and Mudavadi are more than friends “the PM warned. He said in 2007, the party had pledged to provide development in the Country but because it formed a coalition government, it has been unable to fulfill some of the promises. The premier however said, the coalition government has done effectively on electricity provision, infrastructure among others. “However when we take the next government, we will ensure that the land issue and unemployment which have been the biggest problems since independence are completely solved “he said. www.the-star.co.ke/national/national/61892-im-ready-to-support-mudavadi-says-raila
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 11, 2012 9:43:01 GMT 3
your opinion may matter after they present their candidate. for now your unsolicited advice is best given to G7 or whatever party/person you support. Akinyi,There is a simple rule in politics and that is, when you see anyone who doesn't care about success in your political objectives as a party or candidate whining about something you are doing or not doing or purporting to offer you unsolicited counsel on how to do it better, you better not pay attention to them at all but stay focused on meeting your objectives. This is because there is no counsel such a person can offer you that you already don't know or cannot solicit from those you can trust genuine on its face the unsolicited counsel from the one who only wishes you ill may be. The Mudavadi issue has been resolved in as far as the party is concerned but, it would be naive to think even for a moment that schemers even a handful within ODM are not spending sleepless nights trying to figure ways they can use Mudavadi to "stop" Raila from being reelected as president. Balancing between genuinely seeking the nomination himself without appearing to egg along the schemers or doing so at the expense of the party's unity or its overall objectives for the general elections is the greater challenge for Mudavadi as a leader than challenging Raila under those conditions.
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Post by nok on Feb 11, 2012 13:43:45 GMT 3
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Post by b6k on Feb 11, 2012 15:30:34 GMT 3
Nok, you missed the interesting bit:
"Mr Mudavadi regretted that “leaders of integrity” had in the past lost in such contests because elections were held in avenues where delegates get compromised.
The minister, who will be vying for the party’s presidential nomination against Mr Odinga, said the use of delegates at the county level would guarantee true democracy."
How do they get compromised? Money? Fear of the more bellicose delegates? The inference ofcourse is that an NDC at Kasarani is skewed in favor of the one without integrity.
Personally I don't see this as a clash between Mudavadi & Raila. One just wants democracy whilst the other wants to lawyer-up.
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 11, 2012 16:55:21 GMT 3
Personally I don't see this as a clash between Mudavadi & Raila. One just wants democracy whilst the other wants to lawyer-up. b6k,I take it you are saying this as a misplaced metaphor as "lawyering-up" is usually associated with wrongdoing and no one has alleged any wrong-doing in this Mudavadi issue. Indeed, all Mudavadi is saying here is he prefers nomination be held at local level and the PM has responded saying a rules committee will look into this and make its recommendation in accordance with the party constitution. If this is not democracy and rule of law, then those who don't think so need some education as to either or both for that is precisely what this is. Having said that, I can state here and now what the naysayers, anti-Railaists/haters or those otherwise hoping and praying he doesn't get reelected as president will say when the committee announces the rule accommodating Mudavadi's wish but, let me just save the keypad a few strokes for I am sure I will have to say it again when they do if I do not.
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Post by mzee on Feb 11, 2012 17:28:26 GMT 3
I think that the paid press went for the kill too early and missed. ODM figured the mischief too early. The two top ODMers also refused to fall for the trick. Now we have all manner of haters trying to fuel animosity lakini wapi, nothing doing
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 12, 2012 0:17:39 GMT 3
I think that the paid press went for the kill too early and missed. ODM figured the mischief too early. The two top ODMers also refused to fall for the trick. Now we have all manner of haters trying to fuel animosity lakini wapi, nothing doing Mzee, You wish. That all is not well in ODM is not contestable. One of the very celebrated African writers Chinua Achebe writes that when you seen a toad hopping in daylight know there is something. Here you have a party leader hopping from one county to another like a headless chicken as if an in emergency situation and you want us to believe that all is well? It is even reported that he had to miss a cabinet meeting for the first time since the formation of the grand coalition to honor his date with Trans Nzoia delegates. "For the first time since the formation of the coalition government Prime Minister Raila Odinga on Thursday missed a Cabinet meeting while in the country. He was meeting ODM delegates in Trans Nzoia in readiness for ODM party elections to pick the presidential candidate." That does not happen when there is no crisis. Meanwhile here is Warigi's take on the whole issue: www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/I+dont+see+a+happy+ending+in+the+Raila+and+Mudavadi+battle/-/440808/1324836/-/ujfb13z/-/index.htmland Makali's too: the-star.co.ke/opinions/david-makali/61897-no-win-situation-for-mudavadiraila-duelI have in the past implored you to speak to Miguna Miguna, if he be open with you, he will tell you that Musalia factor was and remain one the high profile reasons he was shown the door. But that does not seem to have placated Mudavadi as earlier thought.
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Post by Omwenga on Feb 12, 2012 3:09:39 GMT 3
I think that the paid press went for the kill too early and missed. ODM figured the mischief too early. The two top ODMers also refused to fall for the trick. Now we have all manner of haters trying to fuel animosity lakini wapi, nothing doing Mzee, You wish. That all is not well in ODM is not contestable. One of the very celebrated African writers Chinua Achebe writes that when you seen a toad hopping in daylight know there is something. Here you have a party leader hopping from one county to another like a headless chicken as if an in emergency situation and you want us to believe that all is well? It is even reported that he had to miss a cabinet meeting for the first time since the formation of the grand coalition to honor his date with Trans Nzoia delegates. "For the first time since the formation of the coalition government Prime Minister Raila Odinga on Thursday missed a Cabinet meeting while in the country. He was meeting ODM delegates in Trans Nzoia in readiness for ODM party elections to pick the presidential candidate." That does not happen when there is no crisis. Meanwhile here is Warigi's take on the whole issue: www.nation.co.ke/oped/Opinion/I+dont+see+a+happy+ending+in+the+Raila+and+Mudavadi+battle/-/440808/1324836/-/ujfb13z/-/index.htmland Makali's too: the-star.co.ke/opinions/david-makali/61897-no-win-situation-for-mudavadiraila-duelI have in the past implored you to speak to Miguna Miguna, if he be open with you, he will tell you that Musalia factor was and remain one the high profile reasons he was shown the door. But that does not seem to have placated Mudavadi as earlier thought. There is no "crisis" involving Raila or ODM and Mudavadi's wish to challenge Raila for the ODM nomination, which both say they are fine with it. Those who would rather believe there is one are welcome to so believe. Makes no difference to Raila and ODM now focused on popularizing the party throughout the country consistent with the party's 47-County Winning Campaign Strategy.
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Post by okolowaka on Feb 12, 2012 4:37:13 GMT 3
...ODM is indeed walking the talk this time...
To the likes of you and you who are not even ODM members and keep on yapping about Ooh Musalia, mara Ooh...make sure you are taking notes on the conduct of internal party politics.... You will need the notes after the dust of your "prayer meetings" settles and the reality of the new ground rules sets in....
What Raila and Mudavadi are doing is what is defined as holding a "Caucus"; where someone interested in their internal political party posts have closed door meetings with groups of members of that party (elected delegates) in order to influence the selection of candidates or in order to influence party policies... Democracy 101...
Now, to you and you who are not even ODM members but are all over our hood shouting yourselves hoarse for the umpteenth time that "ODM is done", Raila is on record as saying that he is ready to support Mudavadi for the party top seat... Raila has spoken...!
This is the future of politics in Kenya; we must all learn to follow and respect rules, regulations, structure, institutions....
Oops, I forgot that these are alien terms to you and you (PNU, PDP, PNU Alliance, KKK, UDM, URP, UPR, UDF, KK, TAI....etc) who have declared that you will block the runway at JKIA or undress if someone will not be in the ballot paper....
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Post by akinyi2005 on Feb 12, 2012 5:15:43 GMT 3
...ODM is indeed walking the talk this time... To the likes of you and you who are not even ODM members and keep on yapping about Ooh Musalia, mara Ooh...make sure you are taking notes on the conduct of internal party politics.... You will need the notes after the dust of your "prayer meetings" settles and the reality of the new ground rules sets in.... What Raila and Mudavadi are doing is what is defined as holding a "Caucus"; where someone interested in their internal political party posts have closed door meetings with groups of members of that party (elected delegates) in order to influence the selection of candidates or in order to influence party policies... Democracy 101... Now, to you and you who are not even ODM members but are all over our hood shouting yourselves hoarse for the umpteenth time that "ODM is done", Raila is on record as saying that he is ready to support Mudavadi for the party top seat... Raila has spoken...! This is the future of politics in Kenya; we must all learn to follow and respect rules, regulations, structure, institutions.... Oops, I forgot that these are alien terms to you and you (PNU, PDP, PNU Alliance, KKK, UDM, URP, UPR, UDF, KK, TAI....etc) who have declared that you will block the runway at JKIA or undress if someone will not be in the ballot paper.... ;D ;D ;D
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 12, 2012 7:17:39 GMT 3
... and the circus continues:
pay very close attention to Mudavadi's utterances very uncharacteristic of him, I wonder what ODM did to this man.
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Post by b6k on Feb 12, 2012 9:05:28 GMT 3
...ODM is indeed walking the talk this time... To the likes of you and you who are not even ODM members and keep on yapping about Ooh Musalia, mara Ooh...make sure you are taking notes on the conduct of internal party politics.... You will need the notes after the dust of your "prayer meetings" settles and the reality of the new ground rules sets in.... What Raila and Mudavadi are doing is what is defined as holding a "Caucus"; where someone interested in their internal political party posts have closed door meetings with groups of members of that party (elected delegates) in order to influence the selection of candidates or in order to influence party policies... Democracy 101... Now, to you and you who are not even ODM members but are all over our hood shouting yourselves hoarse for the umpteenth time that "ODM is done", Raila is on record as saying that he is ready to support Mudavadi for the party top seat... Raila has spoken...! This is the future of politics in Kenya; we must all learn to follow and respect rules, regulations, structure, institutions.... Oops, I forgot that these are alien terms to you and you (PNU, PDP, PNU Alliance, KKK, UDM, URP, UPR, UDF, KK, TAI....etc) who have declared that you will block the runway at JKIA or undress if someone will not be in the ballot paper.... @ Okolowaka, you're right. The delegates process is internal for party members only. However, the way process plays out & its results are always in the public domain. Don't you watch CNN? Don't you think there's a reason they always have a Democrat talking head & a Republican talking head with the host standing in as moderator always for the Republican primaries? When it gets to an election day in the primaries, don't you think there's a reason they have several CNN staffers as hosts analyzing different aspects of the internal process & a panel of Republican talking heads balanced with a panel of Democrat talking heads? The same will be done when the Democrats hold their elections. It's Democracy 102. Public discourse open to ALL & sundry. What you are advocating is a closed process, locking out the public's access to the process. That will give you the type of inbred leadership you get in closed communist systems. Every Kenyan has a right to discuss the goings on in ODM. If you're progressive enough, you're party will be strong enough to take the jibes as well as you take the praise. @ Mwalimumkuu, I found what Mudavadi said pretty harmless to be honest.
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Post by okolowaka on Feb 12, 2012 16:09:58 GMT 3
Yes b6k, Internal party politics is for card holding party members only... Members of other parties are free to air their opinion in blogs, JUKWAA, with Rush Limbaugh, or CNN, but it will not change how ODM conducts its internal business... I remember very well the grueling last Democratic Presidential candidature race between Hillary Clinton and Barrack Obama and you would be mistaken to think that Hillary was a Republican then... She had among other things "not so cool things" to say about Obama, the "3:00 AM Call advert" that almost painted Obama negatively in a way that the Republicans really loved and you could tell they did by the way FOX News and Rush Limbaugh among many Republicans joined the call to ask Americans to rally around someone they could trust with that 3:00 AM call, like Hillary Clinton! The Republicans hold zero votes in the Democratic party... hint, hint.... This is what we are witnessing in the ongoing ODM caucusing right now... People who are members of PNU, KKK, G3, KK, PDP, UDM, UDF, URP, Shirikisho, Ford Kenya, New Ford Kenya, Tuju...etc are busy lining up rallies, press conferences, prayer meetings, etc, every day where they spend valuable campaign time and hogging acres of bandwidth pledging to "support" Mudavadi for the ODM top seat if ODM nominates him instead of Raila... ;D As we speak ODM has a committee that is looking at the issue of whether to adopt the American style of county-level process which Mudavadi is advocating for, or to maintain the traditional national event held for all elected delegates in Nairobi. This committee will present its findings and recommendations to the top party organs for adoption before they are ratified by the ODM secretariat and filed with the registrar of parties. After this has happened then the person who is not satisfied will be free to walk the plank... The future is Orange...!
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Post by b6k on Feb 12, 2012 18:33:06 GMT 3
Okolowaka, you forgot to scratch Tuju & add POA to your list of opposition parties. The future is Orange only if you're looking back to the future that never was ('07) . Things are so fluid right now the only future I see for KE is "Azurri" (Blue). I don't foresee any single party ever holding a clear majority. At least not enough to guarantee 50 + 1. We will end up having coalition governments based on the Italian model. Where this first GCG hobbled to full term, thanks in part to baby sitting by Kofi Annan & the international community, due to the high stakes of what its collapse meant (rekindling of PEV), future coalitions will have no such luxury. Governments will rise & fall the Italian way. Having one last 5 years will be the exception not the rule.
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Post by mwalimumkuu on Feb 13, 2012 6:55:55 GMT 3
Mutahi Ngunyi's take: www.youtube.com/user/kenyacitizentvI must say, the Thika stadium episode partly shown in this clip at around 9.17 reminds us of the kinds of fellows we are dealing with here. Can Mudavadi stand such and episode at Kasarani?
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Post by b6k on Feb 13, 2012 13:17:39 GMT 3
Okolowaka, as if on cue care to explain why Ababu Namwamba was last seen galavanting with Wetangula in Ford Kenya's Bungoma rally? Namwamba now claims the two parties share the same vision. Wetangula, on his part, has stated that Ford K will support ODM AFTER the elections are through. Sounds very much like my prediction of shifting alliances, as Ford K ditches PNU, is coming to pass . The future is "Azurri"!
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Post by mzee on Feb 13, 2012 14:14:22 GMT 3
Mutahi Ngunyi's take: www.youtube.com/user/kenyacitizentvI must say, the Thika stadium episode partly shown in this clip at around 9.17 reminds us of the kinds of fellows we are dealing with here. Can Mudavadi stand such and episode at Kasarani? Mutahi Ngunyi has never got anything right. He is an empty shell in terms of analysis.
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Post by okolowaka on Feb 13, 2012 18:15:11 GMT 3
Okolowaka, as if on cue care to explain why Ababu Namwamba was last seen gallivanting with Wetangula in Ford Kenya's Bungoma rally? Namwamba now claims the two parties share the same vision. Wetangula, on his part, has stated that Ford K will support ODM AFTER the elections are through. Sounds very much like my prediction of shifting alliances, as Ford K ditches PNU, is coming to pass . The future is "Azurri"! ...Publicly declaring the intent to co-operate, partner, and form a coalition with ODM after the elections like Wetangula says is provided for in the Katiba, democratic and legal. There are laid down rules and regulations that must be followed; like making any agreements formal, ratifying and filing this intent and "depositing the instruments of this agreement" as provided for in the Katiba with the registrar of parties before we can shout HURRAH! Kenya must change because the Katiba demands it.... Those who still believe in the politics of "thorax" or "godfather" will be snookered big time. If ODM and FORD Kenya want to go this route then so be it... The future is still Orange...with a sprinkle of this and that, here and there.... ;D
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